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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 10:53 AM Oct 2015

Maybe Blacks Just Aren't Socialists

A more correct title would be "Maybe Blacks Just Aren't Democratic Socialists" (which I suspect isn't even a true statement), but either way it's an article exploring the question of why Sanders polls very low among black voters.

When it comes to Bernie Sanders, I think he speaks in the language of class consciousness which is an effort to unify all working people in a common political project. If you look at how he initially reacted to the #blacklivesmatter protestors, his instinct was to say “we all matter,” because that’s the core of his message. We’re all in this together and let’s not let them divide us by exploiting our superficial differences.

And that’s fine, but it doesn’t translate to people who are standing there saying, “We’re getting killed and you’re not because we’re different from you.”

...

The inadequacy of this explanation for Bernie’s inability to get his message through to people of color, though, is that I’m talking about elites or intellectuals or social activists talking to each other. And that’s only the crust at the top. Just as the white progressive blogosphere is influential but ultimately unrepresentative of the progressive movement as a whole, the black and brown intelligentsia isn’t representative of the overall black and brown communities. It’s certainly not helpful to Bernie that the black blogosphere is largely hostile to his campaign, but it doesn’t sufficiently explain this:

Sanders started off this primary known to a similar percentage of whites, blacks and Hispanics; around half of all three groups had neither a favorable nor unfavorable opinion of him. But while the share of whites without an opinion of Sanders has steadily declined, his campaign simply hasn’t grabbed the attention of minorities.


What I am arriving at is that the black community simply doesn’t speak the language of socialism. On an intellectual level, socialism can seem like a negation of their unique struggles, but it may run deeper than that.

Just as the black community is more religious than the white progressive community and therefore more socially conservative overall, the black community also has weak roots into the economic theories of the far left. Too often, I think people see how reliably blacks vote for the Democratic Party and automatically place the whole community on the far left. We see the Republicans doing this whenever they suggest that 47% of the people are just looking for a handout. The idea is that (mostly) minorities are dependent on the government and will support a totally socialist political program.

But it appears to me that this misses much more than it explains. You can rightly point out that the right divides people by race, pitting poor whites against poor blacks and Latinos. But there’s also a sense that class struggle is a luxury that you can’t get to until you’ve overcome systemic racial bias and discrimination.

Martin Luther King Jr. didn’t get to the sanitation workers until after he’d won the right to vote, for example. And, likewise, the current generation is trying to deal with unaccountable police violence and mass incarceration, and breaking up the big banks is just a lower priority.

So, what I think is going on here is that there is some misunderstanding on both sides, and a sense from the black community that their priorities aren’t going to get the right emphasis from the socialist left.

To put it in the simplest terms, the black community isn’t really socialist.

That doesn’t mean that they’re a bunch of corporatists or DLCers. That’s the wrong kind of left-center distinction to make....

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2015/10/13/10185/697

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AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
1. Maybe there is a resentment against the white progressives
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 10:58 AM
Oct 2015

That white progressives are secretly still racist and really don't care about black people. As a racial minority myself, I never felt very welcome among white progressive groups. Bernie is basically unintentionally branding himself with the white progressive croud due to his supporters being mostly that.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
3. Perhaps, but that seems a bit circular
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:01 AM
Oct 2015

He's not popular with non-white voters, so not very many non-white voters are currently supporting him, so non-white voters say they don't feel welcome, repeat step 1...

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
7. "White progressive are secretly still racist and really don't care about black people."
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:27 AM
Oct 2015

Do you have an evidence for that statement? I'd agree of course that individual white progressives are racist.

Bryant

marmar

(77,088 posts)
2. I usually like the stuff in BooMan Tribune.....
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:00 AM
Oct 2015

...... but there doesn't really seem to be a point to this one.


tularetom

(23,664 posts)
4. Really good attempt at parsing words, splitting hairs, and confusing the issue
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:09 AM
Oct 2015

I read this three times and I still don't understand WTF the point of it was.

But I do know this - blacks are socialists. We're all socialists, we just don't want to admit it.

brush

(53,833 posts)
5. A lot of words in this OP but it all boils down to Clinton goodwill
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:16 AM
Oct 2015

Most African Americans still feel that connection with Bill Clinton (everybody, including AAs were working when he was president) and that transfers to his wife, Hillary.

It's not that complicated.

GoCubsGo

(32,086 posts)
8. That's the main thing, but...
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:28 AM
Oct 2015

that opinion piece is probably based on the latest poll from South Carolina, where only 3% of AAs support Sanders. Right now, most of them have many more things on their minds, besides the 2016 election. Like floods, and trying to eke out a living in this Right-to-Work hellhole. They likely aren't paying attention to what a white Senator from a predominately white state has to say right now. I think it's likely that most are not hearing his message, and I would guess that most would actually agree with him. But, yeah, they still love the Clintons. It's more about that than not being socialists.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
6. I actually saw a poll here on DU that showed that
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:21 AM
Oct 2015

black folks were actually less turned off by the word 'socialist' than the general population as a whole. And socialism is about doing things by the community, for the community, at least in the sense it's being used lately. So I think the original author is simply wrong here. Others, who have pointed out that Clinton has made a point of getting lots of photo ops of herself appearing to be doing things for the black community, while not getting exposed for how so much of what she actually supported was far more damaging to the black community, make more sense in explaining why she has so much more black support. She's been telling them she's working for them for decades, keeping herself in the spotlight, while Bernie's simply been chugging away quietly amending bills and actually doing things without making sure everyone knew about it.

(ETA - My point being not that Bernie is great at speaking to blacks, but that there is nothing about socialism that is antithetical to black lived experience, or that otherwise explains why blacks are largely supporting Hillary, as opposed to being 'meh' to both candidates.)

 

philosslayer

(3,076 posts)
10. This is a pretty offensive article
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:30 AM
Oct 2015

"Maybe blacks just aren't socialists". The assumption here is that African Americans are monolothic. That they all do the same thing all the time. Like a herd.

Blacks are individuals. Some are socialists. Some are not. Some are Democrats. Some are Republicans. Why must we try to put them all in the same box?

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
17. No group marches entirely in lockstep
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 12:52 PM
Oct 2015

But in generalized terms, blacks vote for Democrats by wide margins. It's not meant to say that every black person votes for Democrats (or that blacks who vote for Republicans aren't "black" enough).

But when a substantial percentage of a group votes in a particular fashion, it's just shorthand to say the group does. There's a reason Republicans are taking efforts to prevent blacks from voting.

I don't get bothered by people saying that men need to prevent rape as even though I'm not a rapist I can understand that most rapes are committed by guys.

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
11. Or maybe calling Americas first black president unfairly weak when negotiating with republicans
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:43 AM
Oct 2015

... something that turns PoC off because its at the core of "you'll never be good enough" regardless of whether Sanders was speaking to that meme or not?!

If find most if not all of Sanders criticism at Obama unfair because Sanders was never the "organizer" he wanted Obama to be and Sander critique ignores overt gerrymandering of GOP house and that Obama has gotten nearly 80% of what he has promised done or is working on it despite people who were on the onset out to obstruct him.

Paling around with world class and well known Obama Hater Cornell West in SC didn't help either, what the hell was Sanders thinking?

Sanders message is anti establishment, Obama is a part of that establishment...

Some of the blame on the low ratings with PoC is Sanders own fault

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
12. I think it's funny that white people act shocked when black people turn out to like nice things
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:46 AM
Oct 2015

and have a strong interest in making as much money as they can

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
13. I admit I'm not following your point here.
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:51 AM
Oct 2015

Are you saying that they think Sanders' policies will prevent them from making more money, and/or they think HRC's policies will make them more money than Sanders?

Hiraeth

(4,805 posts)
15. Personally, I admire this person's attempt at trying to understand the black perspective. I am more
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 12:17 PM
Oct 2015

inclined to see each one as an individual with their own goals/dreams/attitudes. I don't think they are quite the monolith.

Demographics such as age, geographic and education help determine perspective.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
16. You know, everybody straight-up ignored me when I said months ago
Tue Oct 13, 2015, 12:51 PM
Oct 2015

that the really vocal and shall we say 'enthusiastic' Sanders supporters who believe the best way to promote their candidate is to denigrate everything about Barack Obama was going to either send African-American voters rushing to the Clinton camp, or disengage them altogether... And that was well before the thing with BLM happened...

Yeah, I haven't agreed with everything Obama has done, but pseudo-Dem dudebros trying to re-write history and say Obama has never done anything for us over the past seven years are insulting everyone's intelligence... And even though DU has toned down the craziness a little, nutty Sanders supporters are still running amok on Twitter -- And if you're crazy enough to piss off/alienate Black Twitter, God help you.

Just a few of my more colorful examples:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016129889
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026719565
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=516903
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656


And I say this as an African-American who is a (quiet) Sanders supporter...The ultimate irony now is the left blogosphere working overtime trying to come up with a theory to 'explain' why Sanders polls so low among us (without being overly condescending, of course), as shown by this well-meaning but speculative effort by the blogger in the OP...

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