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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman (65) shoots burglary suspect in garage
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by etherealtruth (a host of the General Discussion forum).
Jessica Lunceford Brown lives just down the street, “I think the homeowner reacted the way I would have reacted with a burglar.” Neighbors say their residential area is fairly quiet. The last burglary folks remember here was three years ago.
Police said the woman and her 19-year-old son heard an alarm Tuesday night and went to their garage and discovered a 55-year-old man rummaging through some bags. The woman had a handgun and told the man to leave. Officers said he turned toward her, she feared he was coming at her so she fired a shot. The man and son began to fight and she fired again. The suspect was found with a gunshot wound to each leg later in another yard. Charlotte Lunceford said, “The homeowner has every right to protect what’s theirs if an intruder comes in obviously they shouldn’t be there you’re just protecting what’s yours.”
News video with better info at link:
http://fox2now.com/2015/10/14/woman-shoots-burglary-suspect-in-garage/
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guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Why did "Dirty Harriet" not call the police and let them handle the matter?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
Police response time could be 30-45 minutes.
It's always amazing when DUers try to make criminals into victims, and victims into criminals.
Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)town, and the 2nd smallest County in the State. The whole County is only about 7 miles wide, but about 35 miles long. We usually have **THREE OFFICERS** on duty on any given night, 1 for the north end, 1 for the middle (backed up by ONE City Officer) and one for the south end.
We have been told by the cops, to our faces, that we are basically on our own out here because if we call, the officer on duty for our area could take up to an hour to respond because he could be on another call and be tied up for a while. We were told that if someone was in our yards threatening us, or especially in our homes, to just shoot them or do whatever we have to, and they will be here eventually to "clean up the mess". How's *that* for "Protect and Serve"??
I *do* understand that they can be busy on another call, as we a lot of domestic violence calls, meth lab raids, and accidents on these hilly, curvy, usually foggy roads at night, but to basically give us a license to kill is stretching a little too far, IMHO. *Some* people would take advantage of that with the "I feared for my life" just to shoot someone, even though we have "Castle Doctrine" laws that cover pretty much anything. You can get away with shooting someone just because you have "PRIVATE PROPERTY, NO TRESPASSING" signs posted. Welcome to my world in rural Tennessee!
At least this lady only shot the intruder in the legs. I didn't follow the link, so don't know if it was good or bad aiming, but at least he didn't die.
Peace,
Ghost
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And her phone did not work,
and she wanted to see if the gun was loaded,
and all those hours on the range are now justified?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)But yeah, response times in some areas can be quite long.
Bottom line - she wasn't charged with a crime because she acted within her rights.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)She shot in both legs leaving the thief alive. Not many would leave him alive. He's lucky.
Throd
(7,208 posts)He started the chain of events.
Bonx
(2,353 posts)
dixiegrrrrl
(60,161 posts)Tho shooting a second time when her son and burglar were fighting, there might have been danger of hitting her son.
Depends on how good of a shot she was and how close the guys were.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Or if she had killed either person.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)an example of gun protection when it is nothing of the sort.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)
Waldorf
(654 posts)Are they to wait until the burglar pulls a knife or gun before they defend themselves or their home? No burglary, nobody gets shot.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)instead of confronting someone in the garage.
They escalated rather than avoid.
Waldorf
(654 posts)The guy should consider himself extremely lucky that he isn't dead.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)to the alarm and was then killed, I would still have felt that the homeowner should have called the police. If her home caught fire, would she not call the fire department and attempt to put the fire out with a bucket?
This is a classic case, in my view, of the "I have a gun and I am going to use the gun" syndrome. A variant of the "when one only has a hammer, every problem is a nail" syndrome.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Usually most states will provide that in your home you don't have to retreat.
Fla_Democrat
(2,622 posts)ba dum bum ching 
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Ghost in the Machine
(14,912 posts)
GGJohn
(9,951 posts) guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)differently.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)instead of the criminal.
Very interesting........................
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)turned towards the woman, possibly to attack her.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)he turned towards the homeowner possibly to attack her.
Police said the woman and her 19-year-old son heard an alarm Tuesday night and went to their garage and discovered a 55-year-old man rummaging through some bags. The woman had a handgun and told the man to leave. Officers said he turned toward her, she feared he was coming at her so she fired a shot. The man and son began to fight and she fired again. The suspect was found with a gunshot wound to each leg later in another yard. Charlotte Lunceford said, “The homeowner has every right to protect what’s theirs if an intruder comes in obviously they shouldn’t be there you’re just protecting what’s yours.”
Here, I even highlighted the relevant part you seemed to have missed.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)toward the door?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)instead of where the blame squarely belongs, on the BURGLAR.
Why are you so invested in blaming the victim instead of the criminal?
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)So far, not once have you placed the blame where it lies, on the criminal, you've done every thing possible to condemn the victim for protecting herself and her son.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)I have no sympathy for the criminal. He walked into the garage intending to steal.
But avoiding a fight, especially with that many unknowns, is common sense.
If you break into my house, I will shoot you. But if you break into my garage I will call the police and watch to see what develops.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)How do you know that his next destination wouldn't have been the house?
Should she have waited for the criminal to break into her home?
How do you know the cops would have got there in time?
Where I live, it would take a minimum of 40 minutes for LE to get to my home, should I wait for them to arrive?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)There is no indication in the story that she had a need to protect herself. As for protecting her son, that was only after he decided to fight the burglar.
Demon haunted world.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Finding an intruder in your garage raises the very real possibility of having to defend yourself.
This wasn't a raccoon that you can run off with a broom.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)but that's not the way I would expect an SD gun owner to think. But I'm not surprised that the SD 2Aers would think shooting was her best option without enough information about what went down when and why after she shot him she and her son thought the best solution was to continue the conflict.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, attempting to objectively analyze a scenario can often look like blame to an biased and irrational mind, regardless of your predilection for bovine droppings.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I would assume an animal if I heard something crashing around at night. I wouldn't call the cops. I would go see first.
I don't know where you live, but I have never lived anywhere that the cops would tolerate a call for a sound, unless it was an 80 year-old living alone.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)might result in more support for the 2A.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And it distracts from the fact that 30,000 people die in this country every year from guns being used.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
hunter
(40,691 posts)
Suicide by gun is a sad and dishonest exit from this life. Other people have to clean up the mess.
It's not a nice thing to be first at the scene of a gun suicide. Done that.
Or last at the scene either, removing the carpets, spraying hydrogen peroxide on the walls, and then just as soon as everything is dry, covering everything up with Kilz, fresh paint, and new carpet for the next tenant. Done that too, it was one of my college student summer jobs.
My sister is a first responder.
My youngest brother romanticized the "saving people" bit, maybe watching Emergency! as a kid, and he was sleeping in the fire station and riding along with the fire department paramedics, but one of his first calls was an incomplete murder/completed suicide. The guy had blown his own brains out all over everything and was dead dead, but his wife, who he'd shot multiple times was still breathing. She made it to the hospital alive but died later without regaining consciousness. My brother decided getting his contractor's license might be a little bit less stressful.
My wife and my sister are still in the business of frequent gun horrors. Very hard women. They'd both rather be delivering healthy babies to moms who want them, they'd rather be patching people up after amusing misadventures, and lots of other much more cheerful work, than dealing with gun bullshit.
My wife came home with a pretty miserable gun story last night, but it's not mine to tell.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)in the hopes of changing a few minds. People aren't that dumb. The effort appears transparent, arrogant, and selfish.
It's sad that you let yourself be reduced to such desperate tactics.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Obviously the burglar did not break in through the house!!!
You are grasping at straws. If this person wasn't aggressive, why would he have been physical with the son?
Most robbers would just leave if someone showed up with a gun and told them to leave!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)with drive in access from the alley behind the property. The burglar likely came in through the overhead door on the alley side, and the woman through the walk through door at the other end. Unless he closed the overhead door after entering (that would be dumb), that was the direction for retreat - away from her, not toward her.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Those are doors, they open....
Pretty easy to break them open with a long pry bar under the bottom.
Dr. Strange
(26,058 posts)You completely discount the possibility that he was turning toward her in order to give her a hug.
Can't a guy go rummaging through someone else's garage without being considered some kind of criminal?
I see what you did there.
I was totally wrong, he just wanted to give her a hug and offer her some money for the inconvenience of rummaging around in her garage.
She was such a heartless person for shooting this misunderstood man who might have gone on to be a founder of the cure for a devastating disease.
How dare her shoot such a person of his potential stature.
Yupster
(14,308 posts)to feed to his pet boa. So really, he was trying to help the woman get rid of some pests for free.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)The demon haunted world of SD gun owners.
Reter
(2,188 posts)As it should be.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)and advanced toward her.
And then the burglar got physical with the son.
It is entirely reasonable to defend against physical attack. The real mystery is why the man didn't leave when warned, and the answer is probably drugs or alcohol.
As for calling the police, she may have suspected an animal in the garbage, which would be apparently more likely given what is the norm in this neighborhood which has not had burglaries for years.
There is no right to burglarize, but I do find it very, very strange that the perp didn't just leave.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)One sure way to ensure one is not killed while burglarizing someone's residence is not not burglarize someone's residence.
peapodsss
(33 posts)This is the liberal version of blaming the rape victim.
STOP IT.
All you are doing is providing the right wing with ammunition for the faulty 'liberals are pro crime' meme.
She wasn't trying to be "dirty harriet" she was defending her home against a criminal.
Yes we need to tighten down gun control, but posts like this will just send us in the other direction. I wouldn't be surprised if Donald Trump's campaign used quotes from this thread on why we need guns everywhere.
hunter
(40,691 posts)Is this a great nation, or what?
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)
Paladin
(32,354 posts)Whatever lofty ideals you spout, your movement ensures that the Bad Guys have steady access to a wide variety of easily-available firearms. And you view the resultant carnage visited on innocent people as a fair trade-off for your ongoing acquisition of guns, guns, and more guns. That's the truth of it.
Tommy_Carcetti
(44,499 posts)
?w=650treestar
(82,383 posts)nobody having guns is not even considered. Then none of this would happen.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)hunter
(40,691 posts)... and then they're always like, Gee, nobody could have foreseen that! American Sniper Chris Kyle sorts. Moron Heroes. I know, let's take a lunatic PTSD veteran to the shooting range! That'll cure him!
Anyone who can shoot a boring old garage burglar in self defense is probably the sort who could shoot their own daughter's secret boyfriend, a spouse they are angry at, or any kid who pissed them off.
One of our neighbors shot her boyfriend with his own gun. He was naked when it happened, and he ran out into the street, his leg bleeding.
I suspect she was aiming for his manly bits and missed.
Fortunately they don't live here anymore.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If you don't work to reinstate prohibition does that make you chummy with drunk drivers, rapists and wife beaters because you sell them the booze that feeds their abhorrent behavior?
hunter
(40,691 posts)Prohibition doesn't work, but that doesn't mean I have to like or respect guns.
I'll be blunt. I understand chemical addictions, alcohol, opium, pyromania, whatever. I understand hunting. But I don't understand gun love.
In the spectrum of fine mechanical things I'm much more attracted to old film cameras than guns, even air guns. I develop my own film. Chemistry and Physics, almost magic!
It could be something so simple as I don't like loud unexpected noises, or blood, not unless it is safely contained in a test tube or blood bags. Blood is a familiar smell to me.
I'm fully functional in crisis, I can be very, very, very cold and rational, but when the "all clear" sounds, excuse me, I'll be off puking, just off the shoulder of the road or into nearest trash can.
There are no "bad guys" living in my imagination I'd ever shoot. I'd rather use my fine mind to avoid that kind of conflict.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)If you cannot properly apprehend a thing then it stands to reason you cannot properly comprehend the thing.
You might as well complain you can't understand minorities and their "civil rights love" or women and their "equal wage love." If you have the privilege of living a safe and secure life where your very existence has not been meaningfully challenged (or violated) then perhaps those who lack that luxury would appear as inconsolable agitators.
But that doesn't mean you're right, it just means you're privileged.
Those who lack privilege must instead resort to exerting their rights because it is all they have left and no one will defend those rights except themselves and those like them.
And before you pop-off with the stereotypes about white males hicks please remember that Otis McDonald of Chicago v McDonald was an elderly African American gentleman and that the fastest growing segments of the gun-owning public are those who are most vulnerable -- women and minorities.
And what of everyone else -- armed or otherwise -- who were unable to avoid conflict? You're effectively blaming them for being victims.
Worse still, you set yourself up as the moral paragon and judge everyone else who fails to live up to your standard apparently without concern that they have not enjoyed your circumstances -- or is that their fault as well?
Unless you're running a shuttle service to move everyone to your world you have no right to condemn them for the world they are consigned to live in.
Reter
(2,188 posts)n/t
hunter
(40,691 posts)... well, I don't think you were going to vote Democratic anyways.
Reter
(2,188 posts)Be happy and clap. We would win 90% of elections if it weren't for people who side with bad guys getting shot or the nanny-state Democrats who ban Happy Meals.
hunter
(40,691 posts)... dozens of people would be dead.
I figure if the dogs are not making too much of a fuss, than the stranger is probably okay.
In our old neighborhood I was once taking trash out from my kitchen to the back porch late at night, opened the door, and there's this guy standing there with a gun. I looked at him, I looked at the gun, he looked at me, he looked at the big bag of trash, and then he ran off and jumped over our back fence. I dropped the bag of trash on the porch, stepped back inside, and locked the door.
Seconds later the police were pounding on my front door. They wanted to run through my house. I politely declined, and told them the guy had jumped our back fence and seemed to be heading south. They caught him too, without shooting him, which is unusual for the cops around here. Another time they actually did shoot a "bad" guy, just around the corner from our house. I saw it over the fence from our backyard and grabbed my kids and we played inside on the floor until I was fairly sure the shooting was done.
The most expensive things we've lost was a VCR, back when VCRs still cost some money and we were poor, and a few bicycles our kids have left carelessly about. Oh yeah, one of our cars got stolen and was used in a drive by shooting, but that was after we'd lent it to my wife's brother. The police kept it for their investigation, but then they "lost it." They were probably meaning to steal it, cops and tow companies have bad habits that way, but we raised a stink and they eventually "found it" and then they had the nerve to try and charge us storage fees.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)She was faced with an aggressive intruder.
She probably thought it was a racoon or a dog wapping around out there, but when she did see an intruder she just told the man to leave, and instead he advanced. So she fired one shot, and then the guy ended up grappling with the son.
After that, I don't know what you would have expected her to do.
Very few people are going to condemn this women for what happened.
tblue37
(68,436 posts)leave when told to by a homeowner with a gun. My only concern is that shooting while her son was fighting the guy was really dangerous to her son.
Even we who are in favor of strict gun control need to allow for those who use their guns appropriately.
exboyfil
(18,359 posts)but what could be in the garage worth going to investigate if you have a burglar? So long as my family and my dogs are in the house, I am not leaving. I am grabbing my gun, going to the safest room, and calling 911. I don't own a single thing worth risking my family or myself.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)
Lancero
(3,276 posts)
malaise
(296,118 posts)Maybe she should train the cops
Reter
(2,188 posts)I'm surprised someone with your intelligence would post that here.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)...after she told him to leave and he presented such a threat she had to shoot him.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)told them what happened.
Do you have any evidence that it didn't happen the way the victims of this burglar said it happened?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And neither does the other poster attempting most strenuously to slander the victim(s).
treestar
(82,383 posts)only their pre-conceived biases about what they want to believe.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Come on. It is not as if this lady has a history of spraying the neighborhood with bullets. From blood stains and so forth the police can determine the basic validity of the story. They would be able to tell if the man were shot outside, and so forth.
This is a classic, classic case of reasonable self-defense. The burglar survived, and hopefully will be wiser in the future.
It is people like you who have caused the passage of Castle doctrine type laws. You are not being reasonable.
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)Kang Colby
(1,941 posts)In the eyes of the controllers, this 65 year old woman was the criminal the day she acquired the firearm. In their eyes, it would be morally superior if she had become the victim. I genuinely believe that. Years ago, on the Illinois State Police website female victims were instructed to soil themselves as a valid mechanism of defense...firearms were not mentioned at all because this was before CCW was legal in Illinois. You can still find the page though the Way Back Archive.
A real controller would have phoned the authorities, and then invited the perp in for tea so they could get a better understanding of what went wrong in his life that led him to break into the garage. They'd then use the information to testify for leniency on his behalf in front of a judge.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...until I realized that they are in fact sincere, and really do sympathize with
traumatically ventilated robbers, burglars, attempted muggers, and domestic abusers
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)the noise level would be tremendous.
2 lab mixes, a rottweiler mix and a basenji.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and more ferocious than the rest combined! 
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)I've seen her catch squirrels out in the open.
ileus
(15,396 posts)No one in America should be forced to be a victim.
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)We just know that that's what she hit. If he had been armed, leg shots wouldn't prevent return fire.
Cops don't shoot for legs because they're trying to eliminate a danger, not trying to immobilize a suspect.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not that the facts may not justify her, but no one seem to care in the least.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)He was in her home and posed a threat. She was justified.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Apparently...
pintobean
(18,101 posts)GD has been open to gun discussions since the latest mass shooting in Oregon.
You haven't noticed?
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)is a local story at best
that's why.
Throd
(7,208 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)It's a discussion about gun use. It's allowed. Trash the thread if you want.
Lulu Belle
(70 posts)the section of Massad Ayoob's book, "In The Gravest Extreme" that deals with an intruder in the home.
He says that calling out a challenge to a burglar is a recipe for getting killed.
The burglar is amped up already, and likely has made the decision about what he will do if discovered beforehand.
This is not a TV western. The perp will not freeze, and drop his weapon and put his hands up.
Probably the last thing you will see before he kills you will be the weapon in his hand.
Read the book!
Even if you don't have a gun in your home, it can help you formulate a plan about how to deal with a situation like the woman faced.
maxsolomon
(38,729 posts)why is he still trying to steal after the alarm has gone off? how long between "the robber turned towards her" and her firing her gun? why did the son engage the robber after his mother shot him once?
so many ways this could have gone differently.
yes, this is a legitimate defensive gun use by the standards of the castle doctrine, but i don't think shooting another human being over shit in your garage is above critique.
I won't read that book - i don't live my life in fear, and I'm not about to start.
Lulu Belle
(70 posts)that having knowledge, and formulating a plan means that you are living in fear.
maxsolomon
(38,729 posts)seeing as how you're encouraging DUers to read someone who writes for the Daily Caller.
Lulu Belle
(70 posts)The information is sound.
Even if a person doesn't have a gun, the opinions of a person with vast experience in these matters will help them deal with a situation like this.
I read lots of books and articles by authors whose viewpoints I don't necessarily agree with, and it hasn't harmed me at all.
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)How many erections do you think were sprouted reading this article?
Sounds like some harmless old guy rummaging where he shouldn't have been, and he gets two gunshots as a result. 'Merica. Fuck ya!!!!!
pintobean
(18,101 posts)It seems you're the only one thinking like that.
cabyio
(9 posts)I would much rather assume anyone in my house that isn't suppose to be is harmful. Or, If I was like you I would just assume he was harmless and then be really sorry after someone I care about is hurt or dead.
He was in the wrong, not her. You break into a house you risk being killed by the lawful owner. He took the risk and got very very lucky that he didn't have to pay with his life.
Why would you ever want to side with the criminal?
Ino
(3,366 posts)Yet the police claim they must shoot at the biggest body mass, that shooting someone in the leg is just Hollywood stuff. Also, police empty their clip just to connect once.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)GUNS
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