Scientists: It's already too late to save 400 US cities from the rising oceans:

[Cal33]

Last edited Sun Oct 18, 2015, 01:43 PM - Edit history (2)

Thanks to Corporate America's continuing denial that carbon fuels do not contribute to
retaining more heat from the sun. They'll believe, say and do anything for their own
profit. It doesn't bother them in the least how many millions of fellow citizens they will
ruin or even cause the death of in the process.

Florida will be the worst hit, since the state hardly has any high ground. In time (several
decades) almost the whole state will be under water.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/rising-sea-levels-will-overtake-hundreds-american-cities

Added P.S. I wonder if it would do any good for the U.N. to call an emergency session to
have every nation agree to plant as many trees as possible. We know that plants take in
carbon dioxide and emit oxygen (just the opposite of what humans and animals do), and
also switch over to solar, wind and tide power and stop using carbon-based fuel as quickly
as humanly possible.

Come to think of it, we don't even have much of a choice about this, if we and other nations
wish to save at least some of our coastal cities. There is no guarantee of success, but what
alternative is there other than to try?

[daleanime]

1. kick, kick, kick....

[EndElectoral]

2. It's the head in the sand syndrome

[Cal33]

4. Correct. And what is causing this "head in the sand syndrome?" Bottomless greed!

[Oneironaut]

45. Yup. It's partly human nature to blame.

Nobody wants to do anything about it because the problems aren't obvious yet. Unfortunately, when the ramifications become obvious, it will already be way beyond too late to do anything about it.

[cantbeserious]

3. Thank You For Sharing

eom

[Cal33]

5. You're welcome. But I wish I didn't have to write this message. I wish environmental

destruction has never happened. Corporations are behind most of this, and Corporate
power is buying this destruction with their ill-gotten gains. Corporate power people are
the real leaders of nations all over the world.

[cantbeserious]

6. Know Thy Enemy - Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks And Their Media Minions And MIC Henchmen

Agreed on all accounts.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

7. C'est la vie.

What price a few (hundred) cities, when weighed against the goal of keeping the rich rich and the rest of us poor?

[geomon666]

8. The Do Nothing policy of this generation

is going to doom millions of people around the world.

[kiva]

15. Which generation?

There seem to be several involved.

[Cal33]

19. I agree, several were involved. I think it became really bad starting with Reagan. GWB was

possibly the worst. I suppose others will have different opinions.

[kiva]

23. I see it as a snowball,

with a 'pick a time' start. I usually go with nineteenth century industrialization - the pollution from that era was astounding. A few wars, new standards of living...and voila, a disaster.

[Cal33]

44. Yes, serious pollution began with the 19th century industrialization. However, even at the end

of the 19th century, in 1900, the world population was only 1 billion. Today
it is 7 billion -- quite a jump for 115 years! There never was such a big
jump in such a short time until now! And pollution followed suit.

[Cassiopeia]

16. Which generation exactly is the cause?

[PatSeg]

9. God won't let that happen......

.....unless of course, he is mad about gay marriage and abortion!

[CrispyQ]

12. LOL

[PatSeg]

18. Good to see you!

[Duppers]

24. That was my mum's reaction.

Seriously.
Grrrrr.

[PatSeg]

26. I think it is easier

for some people to believe that. Otherwise it is just too big and overwhelming to absorb.

[Duppers]

30. How do we reality-based folks cope then?

Admittedly, I'm not doing great but I cannot believe in fantasies. And I don't respect those who do. IF they faced reality head-on, the world would be a better place.

[PatSeg]

38. Sometimes I think

"I don't know" is the smartest way to go. At least it opens up many options.

I understand about the coping. The world seems to have gotten so surreal to me, but maybe the ignorance is such coming to the surface.

[Person 2713]

27. Ye of little faith ! Jesus the Janitor is coming back to clean this all up for us good people

just wait and pray that's all we need to do

[Cal33]

41. I understand this was written with sarcasm. But, looking at the problem thoughtfully,

most of the big troubles in the world since the beginning of human history have been
caused by sociopaths. They make up only between 2 and 4% of the general
population (see "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-IV," DSM-IV), but they are also
extremely ambitious and live for the purpose of taking advantage of, using and having
domination over others. Very likely heredity and environmental influences during one's
growing-up years both play a role in the formation of this type of personality disorder.

Because of the above-mentioned influences, the maturation process of developing a
conscience never reached the normal adult stage. It remained blocked at the primitive
level of that of a small child. Sociopaths would do anything that they can get away
with to achieve their goals - including criminal acts - since their conscience does not
bother them. Hence they succeed more often than the other 96 to 98% in getting into
high positions.

A high percentage of corporate CEOs are sociopaths. Those deliberately continuing
the pollution of our environment should be sued in court, and punished if found guilty.
We need a strong Justice Department for this to take place.

[kairos12]

10. Rubio's head in the sand will eventually be underwater.

[valerief]

11. The most important thing in the world is to make rich people richer.

More important than survival.

The PTB prove it to us every fuckin' day.

[NCjack]

31. Ann Romney needs another horse. /nt

[dreamnightwind]

33. Better make it a seahorse then. /nt

[Oneironaut]

46. Mother Nature doesn't care about money.

Someone should tell these people that.

[valerief]

47. Yes, but they don't care about anything but money and their prestige.

And the poor souls with the guns and jingoism in their heads, the soldiers who risk their lives in wars for these assholes, come between us and the money assholes.

[Cal33]

58. It's exactly these people who wouldn't believe you. They have their own values.

Money and the power of control over others are their main interests in life.
Everything else (including other people's lives) don't mean a thing to
these psychopaths. I's sad, but so many of the high positions (both in
politics and in the private business world) are held by them. No wonder
our nation as fallen to the abysmal state it is in. We are well on our way
to becoming a Third World nation and a Third Rate Oligarchy dictatorship.

[LiberalElite]

13. I'll be long gone - but my ashes will be bobbing in the water -

maybe I should just go for burial at sea and get it over with.

[newfie11]

14. Of course there are still those that don't believe this

So if I had ocean front property I would be looking to sell to them.

[Cassiopeia]

17. The real money is going to be predicting the new beach line

and getting that property dirt cheap now.

[newfie11]

28. Lol your right

I hadn't thought about that.

[Marrah_G]

20. The articles are annoying, they don't give a list of the cities

They just regurgitate the cities we already know are in trouble. If they say 400 then they need to link to a list of 400.

[Cal33]

21. The link also shows a map of the US with the areas involved: mostly the East Coast,

the Gulf Coast, and the Pacific along the California Coast. You can click the small
dots and get the names of some of the areas at least.

[Marrah_G]

22. Thanks, I didn't see that

[Cal33]

25. You're very welcome.

[pnwmom]

37. The map is pretty worthless. It will affect all three coasts, obviously, because

inland cities won't be affected by rising water along the coasts.

[HeiressofBickworth]

29. For information on regional activism

I recommend Naomi Klein's new book and movie, This Changes Everything. I saw it last Wednesday at a special showing where Ms. Klein and the director, Avi Lewis spoke after the movie. Here's the website: http://thefilm.thischangeseverything.org/

While it seems overwhelming to try to make global changes that affect climate, local/regional efforts ARE being made, some with success.

[Cal33]

40. Many thanks for the info.

[Kaleva]

32. We'd be better off directing our efforts towards adapting to the coming changes

We can argue all we want about how important it is to try and prevent a house that's already on fire from burning down but nothing will come of it because the fire department is never going to show up.

[dreamnightwind]

34. Wow, strongly disagree

We need to do everything we can to avoid crossing th most dire tipping points if there is any future for humanity whatsoever. Dealing with the consequences of the damage that is irrevocable is also necessary, but mustn't preclude radical transformation to avoid the truly unspeakable.

"In our analysis, a lot of cities have futures that depend on our carbon choices but some appear to be already lost...

digging down further (2nd edit to this post):

The abstract of the study this article was based on is here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/10/07/1511186112

and includes this excerpt:

The total area includes 1,185–1,825 municipalities where land that is home to more than half of the current population would be affected, among them at least 21 cities exceeding 100,000 residents. Under aggressive carbon cuts, more than half of these municipalities would avoid this commitment if the West Antarctic Ice Sheet remains stable. Similarly, more than half of the US population-weighted area under threat could be spared. We provide lists of implicated cities and state populations for different emissions scenarios and with and without a certain collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Although past anthropogenic emissions already have caused sea-level commitment that will force coastal cities to adapt, future emissions will determine which areas we can continue to occupy or may have to abandon.

The PDF containing the supporting datasets they used for different cities and carbon scenarios can be downloaded here:

http://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2015/10/08/1511186112.DCSupplemental

It does appear as if a number of cities, including Miami and New Orleans, are beyond hope no matter how much carbon we reduce. Let's hope we can turn this thing around in time to prevent collapse on a scale we can't survive.

[Enthusiast]

35. +1!

[Kaleva]

53. China and India own the fire department though

Even if, and that's a big if, the US gets very aggressive about cutting carbon emissions, it won't matter if the aforementioned nations don't follow suit.

[Cal33]

55. That is why I suggested that the United Nations should try to get all its member

nations involved. China also has many large cities along her coasts. China, at least,
has admitted the reality of this problem, and has stated that she would cut her
carbon-based fuel consumption by 20% within the next few years, and make further
cuts after that. In fact, China is already one of the leading nations in making changes
in switching over to solar, wind and tide energy.

Our corporate power people have yet to admit that we have such a problem, and they
are still fighting against the idea of switching over to solar, wind and tide energy.

The Chinese leaders are aware of the problem and are doing their best to survive. Our
corporate leaders are still only interested in make more profits for themselves. I think
the Chinese are way ahead of us in this area. We are the ones with a lot of catching
up to do.

[raouldukelives]

36. Millions at home, billions around the world.

It is almost a mind numbing fact to fully accept. Once one does, then one can determine how they themselves stand with or against the greatest moral issue we have ever faced.

If one wants to stand against something, not standing with it is a good start.

[KittyWampus]

39. reacting to only headline- the Dutch have saved their entire country from rising oceans

So it isn't too late.

But it would require some serious engineering and infrastructure investment.

[Hortensis]

43. Not to knock scientists at all, but we have engineers too. :)

Vast areas of valuable and inhabited land will be saved for the foreseeable future with a variety of means. These projections just show what the water will do on its own without any action from us.

[Cal33]

56. Engineering is based on science. I think of engineering as science in practice. nt

[Hortensis]

57. Sure, Cal33. But I was thinking about what people hire engineers for.

Lots of work ahead for civil, hydraulic, environmental engineers, no doubt others I haven't heard of.

Friends of friends live off a bay just inland from a naval base, and at this point they expect the massive projects that will control sea water to keep the base secure to provide considerable protection for their property too. Not that I know any details. There was very little on the web last I looked about this kind of planning. It's also a good time to be an expert in this stuff from the Netherlands too, though.

[KamaAina]

42. "Historians are unclear whether San Francisco was a city"

"or a chain of independent islands off the coast." -Robert Anton Wilson, Illuminatus!

[GummyBearz]

48. Looks like the biggest polluters will get flooded by the sea

mother nature's revenge at work.

[yuiyoshida]

49. I used to love the Ocean...but after

seeing what happened in Japan, with the Tsunami, and Knowing San Francisco is earthquake prone, and with the rising Oceans, I wonder if I am safe. I am a mile, semi uphill from the Ocean but, I saw Tsunami drive miles inward into Japan. It makes me uneasy, and I don't really know if Higher ground will even cover me.

[Cal33]

50. I think of importance are (1) Your elevation above sea-level. (2) You are a mile semi-uphill from

the ocean, are there lower flat-lands around you and also going way deeper inland? If so, and
if you are high enough, the waters may just surround you for a while like an island and not rise
higher.

I am about 80 miles from the ocean and only about 450 feet above sea level. The land further
inland gradually rises much higher. It's safer than being at or near sea level, but not safe if
there should be a tsunami. I'm well along in years and expect to be gone before anything of the
kind happens.

[yuiyoshida]

51. The waves reported in Japan were 20 feet high coming in

The force driving them, would probably have no problem rising up hill, but how far I don't know. There has always been talk of a Super Tsunami that drove sand and sea shells 20 miles inland in Oregon, where someone found a huge pile of sand and shells. In Alaska one man and his son witnessed a super Tsunami when one picked up his small fishing vessel and carried him from the Bay to the Ocean, where it left him 5 miles off shore. The Tsunami caused by a giant rock slide into the Ocean, forcing a great wall of water to push out into the sea.

Not far off our shores is part of the San Andreas fault moving northward, and its said if there was a tremendous slide downward it could generate a fairly huge tsunami. Perhaps even a super tsunami. The thought of that overwhelming much of the Bay Area, is horrifying.

[Cal33]

52. I'm on the Atlantic side. A huge earthquake below the ocean-floor could also cause a tsunami. It's

not pleasant to think about.

[smirkymonkey]

54. The Ocean terrifies me these days. After seeing the terrible power of nature's

wrath upon humanity, I no longer see the ocean as peaceful anymore. I am kind of preferring pools these days.

[Cal33]

59. Thanks to the greed of the corporate powers that be. They have been warned by our scientists

for decades about the coming dangers, but have refused to heed them, because switching over
to non-carbon fueled energy would mean making smaller profits to them. Disasters and even
deaths mean nothing to them -- others' deaths, that is.

This coming disaster has been made by the corporate powers that be, just as the economic
disaster of 2007 had been caused by the greedy bankers. Now, are we going to bail them out
again when half of our coastal cities will be under water, just as we bailed out the criminal
bankers in 2009, or are we going to make them pay for the disaster they have caused?

I think, if this should happen during Bernie Sanders' time as president, he would make them
pay -- he would not reward them.

[B Calm]

60. If I owned property in Florida, I would sell it now.

[Cal33]

61. I also think people living in those low-lying endangered areas should be gradually moving out, while

there still is time.

And those people who automatically "vote Republican" should at last take a real good look at the
big corporate powers that be, what kind of people they really are. Would they still be voting for the
politicians that the corporatists have bribed and bought?