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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Can We Do About Incarceration Rates?
I'm thinking about doing a blog about incarceration politics. According to published data, many of our incarcerated are high-school drop-outs, illiterate and/or substance abusers. The data also says that a larger percentage of our incarcerated are in jail for non-violent crimes. I have mixed feelings about incarceration. I think more white-collar criminals should do time. But jail overcrowding is a problem and the industry that has grown up around incarceration (clothing, food, weapons, prison building, and employment) appalls me, especially because it is funded by tax-papers, often fitting a bill of $23,000 per prisoner. I am also saddened by the practice of shipping prisoners out of state, away from families, so that states can save money.
We've had a War on Crime and a War on Drugs, and these two movements have brought us to the incarceration mess we're in today. But I'm not sure what we can do about it.
I would like to see more fines, and high ones, instead of incarceration for those selling drugs. Make the fine equivalent to the street price of the drug that was found on the person planning to sell it. Similar fines for fraud. I think it should be acceptable to investigate bank accounts and search the homes of individuals convicted of white collar crimes, and if the money is found, it can be confiscated.
I would like to see alternative sentencing where convicted criminals must go to GED classes. I would like to see more "in home imprisonment" of DUI offenders. In fact, ANYTHING that costs the state less than $2300 a year (1/10th the cost of incarceration) seems reasonable. (On top of the $3000/year typical cost for putting someone on probation.)
I would like to see an end to the 3-strikes laws around drug dealing under a certain amount. In fact, I would like to see the laws changed such that there's a higher quantity cut-off on incarceration based on the quantity of drugs you're caught with. Yes, I want to see major dealers imprisoned. But the small-time folks, no. No more than I want to see users imprisoned.
I want to see changes and I think our "Tough on Crime" laws need to be re-thought. I still want violent criminals off the streets.
I admit that I'm biased. I am convinced that African-Americans are disproportionately incarcerated... not because they commit more crimes, but because white folks get away with more crimes, especially white youths (boys will be boys...). I also think that while the answer is not more incarceration, it's definitely more arrests.
What I want to ask folks is what reasonable changes could be made to lower incarceration rates without seeing increases in violent crime.
Thoughts?
randome
(34,845 posts)Are there any sites out there now that do this? It seems like it would be a huge job. Although maybe it could be done on a state-by-state level and then the data collated?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)They do annual reports on prisoner numbers, among many other things.
State prisoners numbers have actually started to decline slightly after about 30 years of increases, due largely to the fact the states can't afford their prison budgets, but the federal prisoner numbers continue to climb, driven largely by drug offenders and immigration offenders. The latter were only criminalized under Obama.
rrneck
(17,671 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Step 1: Decriminalize drugs.
Step 2: Go to Step 1.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Only out and out legalization with regulation, just like alcohol and tobacco, is going to end the illegal distribution chain for "drugs".
Decriminalizing does nothing to end the black market and the black market is where the majority of our problems come from.
longship
(40,416 posts)My bad?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Consider that alcohol was "decriminalized" during alcohol Prohibition, it wasn't illegal to possess or consume alcohol, only to manufacture, import or sell it.
And yet Prohibition gave us Al Capone, the St Valentine's day massacre and organized crime, all in a milieu where alcohol was not illegal to possess or consume.
longship
(40,416 posts)I'll stand by my post. Thanks for your response, but I think I made my meaning clear, as have others in this thread.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's both easier to say and easier to write "legalize" as well as being less confusing than "decriminalize"..
Unless there is a retail infrastructure to buy "drugs" legally for the average person then they are still not "legalized" even if penalties for possession of small amounts have been "decriminalized".
If you read around you'll find that "decriminalization" almost never includes actual legalization and regulation of retail sales, the two words don't mean the same thing.
longship
(40,416 posts)But, IMHO, it really is a silly rhetoric argument. As I wrote, others are using the same rhetoric.
Churchill once said, This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put.
Well, I don't mind. It just seems to be a waste of bandwidth when we're on the same side of the issue.
Thanks. I'm done here.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)would go a long way toward it.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)look at what other countries (with lower crime rates) are doing.
Maybe more money for working non-violent criminals back in to the economy (like jobs training) and allowing people to expunge their records for certain crimes (so they can get an actual job).
Prison is a great way to remove dangerous people from society.
For turning basically ok people with some flaw in to productive citizens. . . well not so good.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)States can't incarcerate more people than they and their hired jailers have capacity for.
This will require pushback against powerful lobbies, such as prison guard unions, whose contracts in many states pay them much more than schoolteachers, and privatizing companies such as Corrections Corporation of America.
But Republican-induced declining state budgets now provide rare opportunities for reformers. They need to publicize billions of dollars in correctional waste while hundreds of thousands of scoolteachers are being laid off, and they need to put caps on correctional budgets on referendum ballots.
qwlauren35
(6,152 posts)As long as states have the money, they can ship prisoners to Texas and other states that have privately run prisons. The states then pay the private prisons to house and care for the prisons. The question of capacity goes away... and it comes down to money.
I think you're right. Lobbying. But I also think that it has to be very specific/solution oriented. A lot of people (hmm... maybe not!) know that it costs over $20,000 to house a prisoner, and that its paid for by taxpayers. But they are not able to let go of the sense of "get those people off the streets - they are Bad." I don't want to change the laws on the books, just the sentencing policies.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)When I said "hired jailers: I meant to include other states as well as prison guard unions and CCA and company.
The key is cutting the money for incarceration of any kind, IMO.
qwlauren35
(6,152 posts)Just have to figure out how to make the people angry enough to change the laws.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Once we recognize that we are trapped in a system that offers nothing but the illusion of choice, we can set about changing it. Until then, Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum will remain our 'alternatives'.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)for starters.
Legalize weed.