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waldo.c

(43 posts)
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:16 AM Oct 2015

I just don't understand

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by GP6971 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I'm not American and I'm very aware that the opinions of 'outsiders' are not very often welcome, especially when the subject is political. So even though I've been politically active for many decades, it takes a 'yooge' issue to prompt me to participate in discussions that are primarily located and taking place in the U.S.

The Iraq war was one issue. The numerous, grotesque crimes of Bush / Cheney was another.
The upcoming Presidential election is the latest issue that I feel is so important that I'm going to try, as civilly and as positively as I can, to contribute to the discussion.

When the electorate of the US chose George W Bush to be President twice (I know, the Supreme Court gave him the first but it was close enough for them to pull it off, and the second one was handed to him on a plate) I couldn't understand how a large segment of the American public could ignore the stench of corruption, moral perversion and gleeful ignorance that emanated from him and his cronies.

And I do not now understand why there's any argument about who is best candidate for the Democratic party for the upcoming presidential election.

Bernie Sanders is the most honest, straightforward, clear thinking Presidential candidate that America has produced in years. When you look up integrity in the dictionary the definition is a perfect description of Bernie.

If you watch this video...



....his honesty and integrity shine out like a beacon. His policies for change are clearly stated and outlined, his strategies for achieving it are exactly what's required to bring America back from the edge of an oligarchic cliff and his ongoing political theme cries out for the American people to be actively involved in their own political destiny.

And yet, even here, at one of the hubs of Democratic activism, people are arguing as to whether or not he could win.
Believe it or not, I've seen this before, when John Kerry ran for president. False issues (in Kerry's case, 'is he elitist, was he Skull & Bones?', in Bernie's case, 'is he strong enough on guns, is he racist?' ) are promulgated as reasons for doubt by the media and (I believe) covert operatives who infiltrate all websites to divide and separate whomever they wish to defeat. In Kerry's case they succeeded.

For goodness sake DUers, don't be misled, don't be intransigent, don't be frightened. Radical change is required in the U.S. to avoid an ongoing political, environmental and economic cataclysm. Bernie Sanders is the man to lead your country away from the looming maelstrom that people like Trump and Cruz and Huckabee and Bush (!!!!!) would create.

As Bernie has repeated so many times (and everyone at this site instinctively knows to be true) no President, not Billary, not Bernie, no President can take on the power on the media, the military industrial complex, Wall St and the billionaire class without the organized, proactive, undivided, ongoing and vociferous support of the electorate at large.

All of that starts here, at Democratic Underground.







41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I just don't understand (Original Post) waldo.c Oct 2015 OP
Excellent post! nt ladjf Oct 2015 #1
Kickin' Faux pas Oct 2015 #2
I am with you. SamKnause Oct 2015 #3
The propaganda has been insidious, patient, and targeted. The tools available to them are Dustlawyer Oct 2015 #29
KNR n/t Hepburn Oct 2015 #4
Americans are not the sharpest tools in the shed world wide wally Oct 2015 #5
LOL, your "outsider's" opinion will be widely accepted on DU ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #6
However, if your post had been HRC-positive AlbertCat Oct 2015 #16
Yeah ... Ok. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #30
Because most Americans are profoundly stupid and apathetic to anything outside their ChisolmTrailDem Oct 2015 #7
Most accurate summation I've read about the dolts I'm surrounded by Populist_Prole Oct 2015 #8
LOL...nice try but fairly transparent snooper2 Oct 2015 #9
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2015 #10
The Good News Is . . . Gamecock Lefty Oct 2015 #11
Non-Americans don't get to decide our elections! AlbertCat Oct 2015 #20
Ha! Or at least have great influence over those who vote against their own financial interests SammyWinstonJack Oct 2015 #36
Most Americans don't vote ... surrealAmerican Oct 2015 #12
Americans are afraid. jalan48 Oct 2015 #13
Americans are afraid. AlbertCat Oct 2015 #18
Yes, name brand recognition when times are tough (or any time-marketing seems to be what it's about) jalan48 Oct 2015 #28
America is a nation of intentionally uninformed dolts. YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #14
Dubya was the triumph of anti-intellectualism! AlbertCat Oct 2015 #19
The job of the corporate media is to LibDemAlways Oct 2015 #22
Excellent post MissDeeds Oct 2015 #15
Thank you waldo.c for such clarity and welcome. glinda Oct 2015 #17
I am an American marym625 Oct 2015 #21
Both were. One by the Supreme Court, and the second by Rove and voting officials in Ohio. EndElectoral Oct 2015 #25
Yep. Exactly marym625 Oct 2015 #37
Hilary - Giulani were shoe-ins in 2008. Obama couldn't get elected. Don't buy into the nonsense. EndElectoral Oct 2015 #23
If you knew anything about Americans, you'd probably know they don't like foreigners telling them frizzled Oct 2015 #24
Thank you. Do you know what time Dancing With the Stars comes on? jtuck004 Oct 2015 #26
K&R G_j Oct 2015 #27
This OP belongs in GD-P. Discussions about the primaries belong there. yardwork Oct 2015 #31
look to the flyover states for an explanation of U.S. politics. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2015 #32
American voters are highly susceptible to media and political manipulation. raindaddy Oct 2015 #33
Change comes bottom up, not top down Blue_Adept Oct 2015 #34
So..... AlbertCat Oct 2015 #38
Nope Blue_Adept Oct 2015 #39
Billary? LannyDeVaney Oct 2015 #35
First we criticize Obama for wanting to negotiate with the GOP. Now we bash Hillary for calling the kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #40
Locking GP6971 Oct 2015 #41

ladjf

(17,320 posts)
1. Excellent post! nt
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:17 AM
Oct 2015

Faux pas

(16,229 posts)
2. Kickin'
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:18 AM
Oct 2015

SamKnause

(14,815 posts)
3. I am with you.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:19 AM
Oct 2015

I just don't understand it either.

Dustlawyer

(10,538 posts)
29. The propaganda has been insidious, patient, and targeted. The tools available to them are
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015

unlike any that have come before.

We are in the fight of our times! Corporations control our government NOW! Anyone who doesn't recognize this undeniable fact have been brainwashed to think there are worse things such as Social Security, Welfare, "tree huggers" and the like.

We must not give up. We must use the tools available such as the Internet, phones, voter registration, door knocking....

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
4. KNR n/t
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:21 AM
Oct 2015

world wide wally

(21,836 posts)
5. Americans are not the sharpest tools in the shed
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:26 AM
Oct 2015

As you have noticed.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
6. LOL, your "outsider's" opinion will be widely accepted on DU ...
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:42 AM
Oct 2015

it is Bernie-positive ... 85% self-identify as Bernie supporters.

However, if your post had been HRC-positive ... your "outsider" status would be an opinion disqualifying issue.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
16. However, if your post had been HRC-positive
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:46 AM
Oct 2015

"your "outsider" status would be an opinion disqualifying issue."

Nonsense. That would only happen if he had championed some unestablished notion....like "she's the only one who can win" or "She is the most qualified candidate ever" (or even "However, if your post had been HRC-positive ... your "outsider" status would be an opinion disqualifying issue.&quot .... and then it would have been the bogus claim, not the outsider thing, that made it questionable.

For most DU-ers. A small minority might have gone "outsider" on you.


For instance.... see post #11. I wonder who they think should win....

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
30. Yeah ... Ok. n/t
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:58 PM
Oct 2015
 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
7. Because most Americans are profoundly stupid and apathetic to anything outside their
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:47 AM
Oct 2015

own sphere of existence while simultaneously thinking, individually, that they're smart and hip to what's going on. Most will believe anything they're told because, even though they're carrying around the combined knowledge and wisdom of the greater human race right in their hand every moment, they are too goddamned lazy and they refuse to learn anything or investigate anything because it would get in the way of their own ideas and their ball games.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
8. Most accurate summation I've read about the dolts I'm surrounded by
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:21 AM
Oct 2015

And you're right: They don't seem to delve into anything deeper than the surface talking points, except sports; wherein they display remarkable critical thinking that was heretofore dormant.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
9. LOL...nice try but fairly transparent
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:23 AM
Oct 2015

Where exactly do you reside again

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
10. +1000
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:31 AM
Oct 2015

I agree with you. Where are you from? Just curious.

Gamecock Lefty

(708 posts)
11. The Good News Is . . .
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:34 AM
Oct 2015

Non-Americans don't get to decide our elections!

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
20. Non-Americans don't get to decide our elections!
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:57 AM
Oct 2015

Rupert Murdoch does.

SammyWinstonJack

(44,315 posts)
36. Ha! Or at least have great influence over those who vote against their own financial interests
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:30 PM
Oct 2015

surrealAmerican

(11,790 posts)
12. Most Americans don't vote ...
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:39 AM
Oct 2015

... and even among those who do, are seriously lacking in any information on which to base their votes.

People voted for Bush because he "seemed like someone you could drink a beer with". That's not even close to a good reason, and probably not true anyway.

We feel like we can't trust most of our citizens to make informed decisions, because they have failed to do so in the past.

jalan48

(14,914 posts)
13. Americans are afraid.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:40 AM
Oct 2015

We have been playing 'defensive politics' for decades. That means acting and voting conservatively, trying to hang on to what we have. Because of this approach we have drifted more and more to the right. Change won't come until the vast majority of Americans have nothing to lose.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
18. Americans are afraid.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:50 AM
Oct 2015

So they vote for the person they've seen before and know their name. That seems to be Clinton's biggest asset.

jalan48

(14,914 posts)
28. Yes, name brand recognition when times are tough (or any time-marketing seems to be what it's about)
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:47 PM
Oct 2015
 

YabaDabaNoDinoNo

(460 posts)
14. America is a nation of intentionally uninformed dolts.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:43 AM
Oct 2015
 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
19. Dubya was the triumph of anti-intellectualism!
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:53 AM
Oct 2015

LibDemAlways

(15,139 posts)
22. The job of the corporate media is to
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:12 PM
Oct 2015

keep people as uninformed and distracted as possible. They are masterful at it and it shows. The US has become, to a frightening extent, a nation of dumbasses.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
15. Excellent post
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:45 AM
Oct 2015

I agree completely.



K&R

glinda

(14,807 posts)
17. Thank you waldo.c for such clarity and welcome.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:46 AM
Oct 2015

marym625

(17,997 posts)
21. I am an American
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:09 PM
Oct 2015

And I'm just as perplexed as you.
Though, I will say I believe the second Bush election was also stolen

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
25. Both were. One by the Supreme Court, and the second by Rove and voting officials in Ohio.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:37 PM
Oct 2015

marym625

(17,997 posts)
37. Yep. Exactly
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:40 PM
Oct 2015

EndElectoral

(4,213 posts)
23. Hilary - Giulani were shoe-ins in 2008. Obama couldn't get elected. Don't buy into the nonsense.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:35 PM
Oct 2015
 

frizzled

(509 posts)
24. If you knew anything about Americans, you'd probably know they don't like foreigners telling them
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:36 PM
Oct 2015

who to vote for.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
26. Thank you. Do you know what time Dancing With the Stars comes on?
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:39 PM
Oct 2015

We have priorities.

G_j

(40,558 posts)
27. K&R
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 12:42 PM
Oct 2015

and when someone pronounces a qualified candidate "unelectable", I make a note that the person making said pronouncement is "questionable" as to their actual motives.

yardwork

(69,088 posts)
31. This OP belongs in GD-P. Discussions about the primaries belong there.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:01 PM
Oct 2015

This forum is for General Discussion of issues outside the primaries. Please restart your thread in GD-P.

SleeplessinSoCal

(10,378 posts)
32. look to the flyover states for an explanation of U.S. politics.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:14 PM
Oct 2015

They are the voters who turn out in the midterms. They are conservative by-in-large. And Dems need their votes to win.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
33. American voters are highly susceptible to media and political manipulation.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:21 PM
Oct 2015

They overly identify with corrupt political parties and religious dogma....They become easy prey for shrewd politicians who are highly paid to act as if they'll govern with their best interests in mind while handing out favors to the corporations and Wall Street banks who pay for their campaigns and hire them as consultants when the "retire".

They never seem to notice that most of the people they elect become multi millionaires while they work longer hours for less money..


Blue_Adept

(6,499 posts)
34. Change comes bottom up, not top down
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:24 PM
Oct 2015

Which is why it's all pointless in the end without a working, functional congress. And we won't have that. Doesn't matter who's at the top, they won't be doing anything revolutionary.

A whole lot of the vibe this place gives off is the same as those that were seeing Obama as a transformational candidate/president. It didn't happen. It won't happen here with Bernie either.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
38. So.....
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:46 PM
Oct 2015

We should just throw a dart to decide for whom to vote for president?

Defeatist much? The President has only been immaterial since the GOP elected "PR" presidents....and the DNC followed suit. The prez does do other things besides work (or not) with Congress.

Blue_Adept

(6,499 posts)
39. Nope
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 02:03 PM
Oct 2015

We need equal or more focus on state level offices, governorships and congress. This mentality of all or nothing with the presidential level is what keeps us being self-defeating. We don't look beyond it for the most part.

And yes, defeatist quite a lot to be honest. This place is an utter drag on morale in general and having watched 40 years of politics now and the way it's unfolded, I'm just quietly waiting for the real death gasps of the empire.

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
35. Billary?
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:28 PM
Oct 2015

"Radical change is required in the U.S. to avoid an ongoing political, environmental and economic cataclysm."

 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
40. First we criticize Obama for wanting to negotiate with the GOP. Now we bash Hillary for calling the
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 02:11 PM
Oct 2015

GOP her enemy and indicating that she will fight hard against them. What do folks really want...besides just not wanting Hillary to win?

If we can't pull together we will be pulled apart...and the GOP wins. We can be FOR either Bernie or Hillary without being AGAINST either.

GP6971

(37,773 posts)
41. Locking
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 02:13 PM
Oct 2015

Please repost in GDP

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