General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAfter protest, Amazon workers finally get AC (some work in 110 degree temps for $11/hr)
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/25/11877532-after-protest-amazon-workers-finally-get-ac?lite
By Martha C. White
Updated at 4:30 p.m. ET: When protesters at Amazon.com's (AMZN) annual meeting blasted the e-commerce giant for subjecting warehouse workers to triple-digit temperatures, company executives were the ones feeling the heat.
CEO Jeff Bezos announced that the company will spend $52 million adding air-conditioning to its network of warehouses, the Seattle Times reported and Amazon spokeswoman Mary Osako confirmed via email. (The company did not provide any additional comment.)
Amazon was criticized last year after a local newspaper in Pennsylvania reported how workers at its warehouse there had to endure heat indexes of 110 degrees in the summer months sometimes for as little as $11 an hour.
"During summer heat waves, Amazon arranged to have paramedics parked in ambulances outside" in anticipation of workers succumbing to the blistering-hot conditions, the Morning Call wrote. On one June day alone, 15 workers collapsed from the heat.
renate
(13,776 posts)As profitable as Amazon is (finally), how on earth could they excuse making their workers work in those conditions?
I read the comments on that story and someone pointed out that if Amazon paid an ambulance company to be in the parking lot, there would be no 911 calls and nobody to notice if Amazon's workers started dropping like flies... like venues that host a rave, and have emergency workers available on site so there'd be no need to involve 911. In other words, they knew there was a high likelihood of there being a problem, and they were deliberately trying to weasel out of doing anything about it. If that was their reason for having paramedics in the parking lot, that is completely heartless.
misshu
(7 posts)misshu
(7 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And it's rare to have paramedics and ambulances standing by most construction sites.
Oh, and the pay is often less than 11$ an hour these days..
arendt
(5,078 posts)great logic --- for a blood sucking vampire.
Not what I expect on a pro-labor Democratic board.
If construction pays less than $11/hr (cite please), I would suggest being a supermarket checker; because, around here, checkers start at $12/hr.
But, seriously, if back-breaking labor is paid that poorly, we are back to 1880s conditions; and workers have a right to protest.
If you are trying to support workers in this corporatocracy, your statement sure didn't come out that way.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Lots of DUers are sooo concerned for the poor Amazon workers while ignoring the plight of workers who often have it even worse, sometimes much worse. The selective outrage on DU sometimes pushes my buttons because I have a somewhat different perspective than many here.
I support workers, all workers, not only those who work indoors.
cali
(114,904 posts)You don't support the workers being discussed here.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)does not in and of itself constitute a selection bias for that example.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)these workers are all they care about? Did someone say that?? "I don't care about construction workers, I only care about these Amazon workers"??
Did you notice that the OP was about the Amazon workers specifically and did it cross your mind that anyone who reacted negatively to the conditions of those workers most likely feels the same way about all workers who work under similar conditions?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I've been reading and posting on DU long enough to have a pretty good idea what the collective opinion is here.
Farm workers get a little love on DU but in my experience most other outdoor workers are all but invisible on DU.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Sometimes I make too many assumptions and one of them is that Democrats will always be on the side of the workers, all workers. And I can't say for sure what the consensus of DUers on Construction workers rights is, but just so you know, I totally support them having safe working conditions and know that is not often the case. Sorry if I misunderstood, or assumed something I should not have
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Which is not an entirely unjust stereotype but us lower class white males are not much loved on DU, there was a lengthy thread on GD recently letting us know just how pathetic we are because we aren't wealthy given all the advantages in life we have.
And then some of us wonder why lower class white males as a group are not interested in voting Democratic..
shcrane71
(1,721 posts)job of lifting individuals, often without the help of heavy equipment, and then literally cleaning up shit.
Lower-class white men aren't given all of life's advantages, but there ARE advantages. Here's a nice way of explaining things that even white guys may be able to "get":
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/
Dudes. Imagine life here in the US or indeed, pretty much anywhere in the Western world is a massive role playing game, like World of Warcraft except appallingly mundane, where most quests involve the acquisition of money, cell phones and donuts, although not always at the same time. Lets call it The Real World. You have installed The Real World on your computer and are about to start playing, but first you go to the settings tab to bind your keys, fiddle with your defaults, and choose the difficulty setting for the game. Got it?
Okay: In the role playing game known as The Real World, Straight White Male is the lowest difficulty setting there is.
This means that the default behaviors for almost all the non-player characters in the game are easier on you than they would be otherwise. The default barriers for completions of quests are lower. Your leveling-up thresholds come more quickly. You automatically gain entry to some parts of the map that others have to work for. The game is easier to play, automatically, and when you need help, by default its easier to get.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)The just want their lights, telephone and TV back on as soon as possible.
So deal with the downed live wires, trime the broken branches, and ignore the heat or cold.
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)construction workers or other workers in bad conditions? There have been other threads dealing with that specifically on here and people have been just as supportive of the workers in those situations. Many of us know and/or are close to construction workers, miners, etc., and have a good idea of what they must endure for ridiulously low compensation. But this thread is specifically about Amazon workers. If you want to start a thread about construction workers, then please, feel free, and I'm confident that the majority here would be just as supportive, as they have been in the past.
It's like getting angry on a thread about, say, the civil rights movement and the horrors that the Freedom Riders endured because it didn't also mention Holocaust victims, which must then mean that no one cares about Holocaust victims, only civil rights victims, when the threads are two entirely different subject matters.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)I don't care what the fuck you say, the standards exist for a reason. OSHA has wide discretion to determine whether or not an environment is safe. They decided in this case it was not and could be improved.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)Yes the pay and conditions have taken a hit in construction due to the economy and weakening of unions. My dad worked construction for over forty years and never worked in 110 degree heat. During summer months the work day began before dawn and ended early because of the heat.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Lots of people work in temperatures of 90+ that translate to heat indexes that are much higher if the humidity is high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_index
Plus, workers in a warehouse are in the shade. Workers outdoors are in sunlight which add a considerable radiation heating that the "heat index" doesn't take into account.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)...as effectively in a humid environment. It's not bogus and there's a reason OSHA uses it. OSHA also prescribes breathable protective clothing for outdoor construction workers. A high heat index and that clothing doesn't work.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Breathable protective clothing may or may not be good, depending on wind conditions. It limits evaporative cooling.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)A great deal of construction work is inside completed shells of buildings that don't have the AC even installed, let alone turned on, they can easily get as hot or hotter than those Amazon warehouses, often they have no air circulation at all, not even exhaust fans.
MineralMan
(147,299 posts)Puzzling. You can't air condition outdoors. You can air condition warehouses.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)My dad worked in various types construction from the middle 1950's to late 1990's. Mostly bridges and highways in California and Arizona. During the summer months work began before sunrise and ended in early afternoon because of high temps. The pay for a basic laborer in the 70's - 90's was double what you state. Before unions and osha you would find working conditions in construction like you describe. Sadly since the early 2000's, unions have weakened and we are once again seeing our labor force underpaid and put in unbearable working conditions.
You can not compare a closed in building temps with outdoor temps. Think of the inside of a car vs outside heat.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Sheetrock hangers and finishers, trim carpenters, carpet layers, acoustical ceiling installers, tile layers, door hangers, all of those never work outdoors but seldom work in air conditioned space..
And I'm talking of pay rates and conditions today, not what they were fifteen or thirty years ago.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)possible to take breaks and set up fans without fear of repercussions.
If the workers aren't represented, then they can agitate in the way they see fit -- for much better pay in a shitty condition, or OK pay in a better condition, or good pay in manageable conditions, or whatever.
If they put up with exploitative conditions even after knowing that they can fight to make things better, then they're suckers, straight up.
You are talking a lot about the contempt for working-class white guys on this board. That's a pretty broad group, and IME there are working-class white guys who know how to fight and keep respect on the job, and those who don't, among others. And if people stand up and fight for themselves, I respect it. If, after knowing what it takes to make things better for themselves, they choose the crap shoot or to lower standards for someone else through their own inaction, then yes, I feel contempt for that.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And in North Carolina, where the DNC is going to be held later this year, union membership is only 2.9%, the lowest in the country.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.nr0.htm
You feel contempt for 93.1% of the private work force?
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)People who make really heroic efforts to miss my point often make the list, though.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It really helps with communication..
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)People did it for years before AC.
angstlessk
(11,862 posts)The fact they had medics ready to treat folks tells me they knew they were demanding much, paying little and wanted to hide the consequences...back in the bad old times (post shirtwaist factory atrocity)...I am sure productivity was EXPECTED to be lower in such conditions..not today! And I bet the pay could support a family of four. Again, not today!
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)I think he made about $10 an hour. He lived in a duplex when I met him and ate nothing but banquet tv dinners.
arendt
(5,078 posts)That we should all passively accept the imposition of wage slavery?
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)I was just giving perspective. Jeez.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)Seriously.
The cheapest meals available got too expensive.
Response to YellowRubberDuckie (Reply #3)
Post removed
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)That's not what I'm saying. Why do people on DU have to always jump to the biggest conclusions and the lowest common denominator?
Do you know how next to impossible it is to air condition a large space like that? It is not cost effective. They survived with the door open and very large industrial fans. I'm just saying people have done it for years, decades, centuries. They survived. You can make a warehouse comfortable, but the reality is, that warehouse is never going to be below 90 degrees in the summer. If you don't realize what you're getting into working in a warehouse, you fail to prepare for your job. It is what it is in warehouse work. A bunch of people I know have done it for years. People adjust to the heat.
Have you ever worked out in a warehouse? My husband did it for YEARS, and he was telling me he was comfortable and it didn't at all hurt him. They provided gallons of gatorade and they just drank a lot. And get this: he liked it.
cali
(114,904 posts)related fatalities due to working in such conditions? Prove it.
I find your post sickening. And if people were as comfy as your dear stalwart hubby, then why the fuck have ambulances lined up?
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)...but people didn't have AC until the 20th century. People survive in the desert today without AC. I think you're overreacting.
cali
(114,904 posts)People didn't have lots of things until the 20th century. hell, women didn't have the vote. We didn't have antibiotics. Children did factory work. So what?
YellowRubberDuckie
(19,736 posts)Whatever. I really don't care. Some people, like myself, live in realty and reason. Others live in the land of make believe. I only speak from experience.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I don't think you speak from any particular "position".
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)You did not do that work. It is not your experience, it is a story you were told by someone who loves you, and my experience tells me that those who are working to provide for a family are not always fully forthcoming in reporting their own personal happiness in the work. 'Dad never complained' they say when Dad dies early 'why didn't he mention those dizzy spells sooner?'
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)What's your point?
Advances in technology are supposed to make things better, and when money is spent on them they improve in design while also making everyone richer by spreading the wealth and reducing other costs (I assume a wrongful death liability suit is expensive).
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)The bad old days before A/C.
Providing a big fan in a hot warehouse only circulates the air and makes people hotter. If you don't remove the humidity, it works like a convection oven and cooks people faster.
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)AC, many buildings and houses were constructed in such a way as to maximize coolness, including with certain types of ventilation, windows, etc., etc. Nowadays most buildings don't have that, hell, many don't even have windows you can open, so it affects people a lot more.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)my understanding is that Amazon employed sub-contractors who constantly upped the pace!
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)wickerwoman
(5,662 posts)Productivity goes way, way down when workers are forced into sweltering conditions.
Amazon is probably saving money in the long run by having AC.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Pay an extra $5-$10 an hour and switch to people willing to work an overnight shift.
They will come out WAY ahead.
It's in PA. Are they supposed to get the entire warehouse toasty warm in the winter too?
xchrom
(108,903 posts)If you can't provide humane working conditions w/ uninsulated warehouse - don't build those.
I'm sure this comes as no surprise to the execs.
Now they have to behave - some what - like real human beings.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)lol
msongs
(69,912 posts)xchrom
(108,903 posts)Let's see how fast those 12.95 shirts go up to $100.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)I can tell you're definitely not a fan of the pro-labor wing of the Democratic Party.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Some jobs are hot and awful and there's really no way around it.
Like roofing, construction, garbage pick up, road crew.
Warehouse jobs generally pay a few dollars more per hour than the prevailing starting wage in an area.
There is NO way to air condition a warehouse. However, there can be cool down rooms within the warehouse. Instead of two 15 minute breaks people could have 5 minute breaks every hour.
cali
(114,904 posts)how come they're installing it? Do tell, since you're such a brilliant expert.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Look up how AC's work and check back? OK?
cali
(114,904 posts)They heat those buildings. duh.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)I've worked them.
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)Saying they don't doesn't mean no one does.
cali
(114,904 posts)You actually think they don't heat warehouses in PA or Wisconsin or Vermont or Alaska or wherever it gets very cold in the winter.
gad.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,670 posts)And I'm not paying 100 dollars for a hammer.
It can be done.
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)Even if it's really cold out, because Costco is at such a comfortable temp.
Swede
(34,402 posts)Think Las Vegas in the sun,or West Edmonton Mall when it's -35F outside.
reflection
(6,286 posts)have heating, usually from unit heaters spaced in a fashion to wash the exterior walls. Sometimes by gas-fired packaged units. Sometimes by infrared tube heaters. A smaller percentage have cooling, but that number is rising steadily every year as the cost goes down. Even in the South it gets cold enough in the winter to require heating, especially when you have dock doors opening and closing all day that allow trucks to dock and load/unload.
And less than 5% of the warehouses I've dealt with weren't insulated. Some were insulated poorly, but it's been so long since I saw one that truly wasn't insulated I couldn't even tell you the name of the project. And I remember drawing a big X across that warehouse on my proposal and writing "not in contract." I lost that bid because of that exception, and it was fine with me.
(Worker comfort aside, there are also a lot of warehouses which require a tight tolerance on temperature and humidity, or else their product will spoil. Pharma storage comes to mind right off the bat, there are many others)
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)cheap prices or unsafe workplaces?
Come out with it, will ya?
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Figures, if you please?
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)Safer workplaces mean $100 shirts. Drink the kool-aid!
sibelian
(7,804 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)for example, paint the roof white for starters!
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)an ambulance company to sit out and wait for the employees to drop like flies from heatstroke, which happened EVERY day. I guess that's less important to you than being able to get cheap priced crap that you don't need. The added-up costs for the daily ambulance workers to sit out and wait all day, plus the exorbitant, bloated gazillion-dollar executive salaries and perks at the expense of everything else in the company, sure shows that they sure as shit have the money, they just didn't consider it any kind of priority. They're like the companies who spend millions fighting unions, when it would actually cost less to implement decent pay and working conditions for employees. But getting your unnecessary cheap priced crap is more important, I guess.
And I have been in plenty of warehouses that have had AC. It IS possible. Your bleeding heart for the poor, put-upon company is duly noted and wondered at on a site such as this.
cali
(114,904 posts)at the bottom of the thread. He actually does this for a living, sweetie.
You've just been making up dog shit in this thread.
It's despicable, dear.
Disgusting.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)I am willing to bet you that reducing the temperature in that Amazon warehouse will INCREASE EMPLOYEE PRODUCTIVITY.
In a 110 degree atmosphere you want to move around less in order to avoid overheating. Inescapable fact of physics, not to mention human behavior. IOW: people work slower, as a survival tactic. That reduces productivity. This is an irrefutable fact.
Reducing the temperatures in that warehouse will enable workers to work faster, thus improving their productivity. This will significantly reduce the cost increase of adding an AC system that can handle the temperatures in that building. The ONLY rational argument that can be had here, is not whether productivity will rise, but rather, how much.
And a $13 shirt going up to $100 over this? Absolutely irrational. It is impossible. Your argument is a talking point and a very inaccurate one at that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Looks like they have some wiggle room on the price points....
hatrack
(60,579 posts). . . is whether you have to pay more for something.
MineralMan
(147,299 posts)on your math, there. The price might go up to, say, $13.49. Some realistic math would be good, I think. Arguing that workers shouldn't work in a safe environment because you might have to pay a little more for your goods isn't a progressive thing, I think.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,302 posts)And it won't happen, because if the companies put the price up that much, their goods won't sell.
Do you also think that workers shouldn't get good wages because it might increase the prices of the goods?
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Shipping never ran on an 8 to 5 schedule.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts)It was built very different from a warehouse.
Try again.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Last edited Sat May 26, 2012, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)
I don't think you understand this issue, really. The fact of the matter is that working conditions need to be appropriate for people to work in. That's a higher priority than money.
Swede
(34,402 posts)WTF?
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)They insulate warehouses, and they heat and AC warehouses. That's exactly what a Costco or Sam's Club is, and it's not 110 degrees in summer nor 15 degrees in winter when I shop at Costco.
And, as a poster said, Wal-Marts are nothing more than tweaked warehouses.
GObamaGO
(665 posts)Home Depot and Lowes stores are the same way. I have shopped at Lowes in the heat of summertime and it is comfortable indoors there. If it wasn't, people would not shop there. Period.
And personally I would rather pay a few bucks more for things if it meant every working person was making a liveable wage with affordable healthcare.
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)But, it is doubtful the price of anything will go up. That isn't how something like this works.
I didn't even think of Home Depot or Lowe's.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)The 'dry side' of those facilities are air conditioned.
Last year at in August at Pauls Valley, OK Wal Mart DC the outside temp was 108F.
It would have been deadly inside that building with no A/C.
TBF
(33,948 posts)Can't have them paying A/C or decent wages - they might have to cut back a million or two on exec bonuses ...
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)It's not impossible! I notice a lot of retail establishments around here that are nothing but huge, well lit warehouses that are actually comfortable winter and summer. Maybe it's because when people have a choice to go elsewhere, management finds the money to take care of the problem!
cstanleytech
(26,906 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)TBF
(33,948 posts)that folks have bad working conditions. I call BS on your entire post - I bet you've never worked a warehouse job in your life. If you had you would be cheering this decision.
How do I know that? I've actually done so. Not a typical warehouse job, but when I was a paralegal we would sometimes do document productions in crazy places (ie wherever the company decided they wanted to put us). We reviewed documents (which also included lugging the boxes around & stacking them on pallets - but we did get to sit down and review too so it wasn't constant) ... in an airport hanger in Florida in the spring. 80+ every day. It was only a couple of weeks and obviously I lived to tell about it - but I would not want that to be someone's job for their entire life under those kind of working conditions.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)That's silly and illogical.
TBF
(33,948 posts)blatant disregard for the conditions of other workers.
(pssst by the way - adding smilies doesn't make your words less of a personal attack)
Romulox
(25,960 posts)TBF
(33,948 posts)alphafemale
(18,497 posts)DAMN RIGHT!
Yeah. lol! Of Course I mean that!.
AC'd Warehouses. LOL!
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Your response?
"AC'd Warehouses. LOL!"
suffragette
(12,232 posts)been coal miners.
Just one of hundreds of global citations that could be made
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain
Legacy
In the long-term, the battle raised awareness of the appalling conditions faced by miners in the dangerous West Virginia coalfields, and led directly to a change in union tactics into political battles to get the law on labor's side via confrontations with recalcitrant and abusive managements and thence to the much larger organized labor victory a few years later during the New Deal in 1933. That in turn led to the UMWA helping organize many better-known unions such as the Steel workers during the mid-thirties. To some degree, also it is important to note that this defeat had major implications for the UMWA as a whole. After world war one, as the coal industry began to collapse, union mining was no longer financially sustainable. Because of the defeat in West Virginia, the union was undermined also in PA and KY. By the end of 1925, Illinois was the only remaining unionized state which could compete, in term of soft coal production, with the others listed.
In the final analysis, management's success was a pyrrhic victory that helped lead to a much larger and stronger organized labor movement in many other industries and labor union affiliations and umbrella organizations like the American Federation of Labor (AFL) and Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO).
That's what the Amazon workers just did. Protested and won better conditions.
Shameful seeing such absurd tripe on DU.
Moosepoop
(1,992 posts)The better-known term often used in the industry is "distribution centers."
Yes, distribution centers can be -- and sometimes are -- air conditioned. Food distribution centers that handle refrigerated and frozen food items are not just air conditioned, they are literally kept at refrigerated or freezing temperatures ALL THE TIME. So get over the notion that air conditioning in warehouse/distribution buildings is not possible or commonly done.
True, distribution centers for refrigerated/frozen food items were built with the insulation and cooling systems in place for them. Do you know for a fact that Amazon's distribution centers (being for non-food items) were built without insulation? Perhaps they are insulated (to cut down on winter heating costs), and the existing insulation is contributing to the heat not escaping in the summer?
If the buildings are not already insulated, then part of the process of installing air conditioning will certainly involve adding insulation first. It's not hard to do, and there are companies which exist for the purpose of adding insulation to warehouse buildings.
If the idea of air conditioned warehouses sends you into fits of laughter at the absurdity of the idea, you really need to get out more and learn about the subjects of which you speak.
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)they're likely to die of explosions or cave-ins, largely caused by their employers thumbing their noses at any safety procedures and continually paying fines for noncompliance with said procedures instead of spending the fine money on actually, you know, complying so that they don't have a ton of deaths and injuries on their hands (I'm looking specifically at you, Massey Energy). But your concern would likely only be for the poor put-upon execs and company, whose millions in compensation would have to be cut back in order to provide a safe working environment.
And I've worked in warehouses in the past, I've never worked in one that did NOT have AC and heat. You are, quite simply, unbe-fucking-lievable and incredible. How much is the Chamber of Commerce paying you to shill your hateful anti-worker garbage?
LeftishBrit
(41,302 posts)their employers' profits.
'Natural sunlight' is the least of a miner's worries; the number of miners who have died, quickly through accidents, or slowly through lung disease, as a result of mine managers valuing profits over lives is ENORMOUS! Are you OK with this?
arendt
(5,078 posts)Telling laborers to suck up shitty conditions is not what the Democratic Party used to be about.
Making the ludicrous claim that prices will go up by a factor of almost 8 because of a mere $50 M investment in a multi-billion dollar business is the kind of obscene distortion I expect from the GOP propaganda factory, not from Democrats.
If this thread is any indication, the troll level on this board is approaching critical.
What a disgusting pile of responses.
underseasurveyor
(6,428 posts)Sickening and sad.
Some folks don't give a rats ass about hellish working conditions as long as they get what they want cheap. Shameful indeed.
peabody
(445 posts)I've been lurking here for years enjoying reading some very insightful comments from generally a very intelligent crowd, but for a while now I can't believe some of the responses. I don't know what to think about them. Are they Republicans disguising as Democrats and trying to slowly infiltrate this board, or are they so blind to the fact that they're spouting right-wing talking points and taking up their attitudes. Very disappointing.
Is it so hard for Amazon to spring $52 million so that their own people, our fellow human beings, can have a safe and comfortable place to work. It's not like their asking to be royally pampered, and it's not like Amazon will go bankrupt for it.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)The right wing Republicans are switching over because the ultra-right wingers have hijacked the Republican Party and are purging it of moderates. The result is this: A Democratic Party full of people who hold fundamentally right wing ideas on a whole host of issues.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)One doesn't have to be the least bit progressive to recognize that today's Republican has become a "who can sound the craziest" competition. I don't want to tell right-wingers that they are not allowed to support Democrats. But as this thread demonstrates right-wing values are now so mainstreamed that anything the least bit progressive runs into obstacles even in ostensibly liberal circles.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and right wing modes of personal communication. Creepy and chilling.
Iggo
(48,195 posts)Huh.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)say what I think of these critters.
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)WTF is up with all the anti labor posts on this thread??? wtf???
This Party -- and this country -- was built on a foundation of blue-collar and (later) pink-collar workers.
Really appalling.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)disgusting beyond measure.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I think it's time to push back, don't you?
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Every state has a Democratic party platform.
Here's the 1st statement in the Labor section of my state's platform:
http://www.wa-democrats.org/files/pdf/13%20-%20Labor.pdf
Labor
A strong economy is based upon jobs that provide safe working conditions, a fair
and living wage, and health and retirement benefits. The benefits are obtained and
ensured by workers rights to organize unions for collective bargaining.
The 1st item mentioned is "safe working conditions."
I don't see how anyone can call themselves a Democrat and not agree with this statement.
I fully support it.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)They're pretty consistent in their beliefs but I don't think they represent DU. There are a few that I see that are actually being sort of misrepresented, they don't appear to support these crap labor conditions, they're just throwing in perspective.
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)more lately on this site; I've been here nine years (hell, hubby and I met on here), and this is the worst I've seen it. Truly sickening and disgusting. If this is indicative of the "new" Dems then we're seriously in trouble.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)This.
likesmountains 52
(4,167 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)I just spent an hour reading it and the comments underneath. Most people empathize with the writer and especially the workers in the article however there are a few jerks who spew crap defending the corporations and blaming the workers for their lot in life.
The conditions are inhumane and cruel. People are not meant to work and exist like that. My head hurts.
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)on the flight-line here at Davis-Monthan AFB?
We've been asking for it for years....
Seriously, people need to toughen up. This stuff is bullshit. How did anyone survive before AC? How do we "protect" people who work where AC isn't possible? How do we keep the pearl-graspers among us from having a serious, possibly damaging, case of the vapours?
Fuck it, I need a godamn fucking drink.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Have you read the thread?
And btw?
God Damn REPUBLICAN Sun.
Low skilled jobs like warehouse work or light construction generally pay a few bucks above minimum wage.
There are Target warehouses around here starting at $15 an hour. 10 hour 4 Day work weeks. That's nearly double the prevailing starting wage (at a McD's for example.)
Of course it's grinding sweaty work. You know that going in.
How did we become Anti-Labor?
Oh AND? Let's build a BIG GIANT tent around any house needing a roofing job so it can be air conditioned. Your re-roofing job will cost just $55,000 dollars.
OR the roofers day can start at about 3-4AM.
Yes some jobs suck.
Yes people suck it up.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)What do you intend to DO about it?
Iterate
(3,021 posts)You might get that shirt down to $12.50
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)unsafe working conditions. Have you read the Dem Party's platform on workers btw? Suffragette provided it for you above. Your views are not in line with that platform so may I ask, why are you a Democrat, the Party that supports Labor and 'safe working conditions' for all workers?
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)forced to work beyond human endurance. In construction, for example, there are often weather work rules in the contracts drawn up between the building trades unions and the contractors. Responsible companies can look at OSHA guidelines for heat stress and work with employees to draw up plans to mitigate difficult work conditions.
What's bullshit is people laughing at workers who are trying to make their working conditions a little better -- and who have succeeded.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)I mean wtf???
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)That belongs on the freepers forum, not here.
I fully expect to see Joe Lieberman getting lionized here at some point.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)all dropped like flies?? Maybe they weren't allowed to take breaks and drink fluids? Were there fans in the warehouse? How about being able to sit periodically?
Thank you for bringing the conversation back to how to improve things for the workers instead of blaming them, laughing or telling them to "toughen up".
Iggo
(48,195 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)Heat stroke is real, FYI.
TBF
(33,948 posts)I think they can do without the glorious offices, bonuses, etc ...
You need more than a drink - you need to read a book about the history of Labor in the US.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)yourself by getting this upset over people wanting better conditions to be better for workers.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,670 posts)Last edited Sat May 26, 2012, 08:06 PM - Edit history (1)
NYC Liberal
(20,330 posts)Just like many people died from unsafe workplace conditions before other regulations were enacted.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)where my wife works. They don't give a damn about hourly workers either.
cali
(114,904 posts)should suck it up.
fuck that and fuck people who think it's OK for workers to suffer.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Have people even in liberal circles come to believe that workers have no rights anymore at all and that they have to accept anything, absolutely anything? - Even low wage manual labor jobs working in 110 degree heat for multi-billion dollar mega-corporations in order to keep the top 1% living in ever increasing ostentation? This is truly getting Orwellian!! You are absolutely right, these posts are sicko!!
cali
(114,904 posts)I can't believe I'm reading what I'm reading: Toughen up? What. the. hell.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)It is hot, dirty, smelly work pooring molten metal into molds.
The foundry I'm familiar with has lots of immigrants working in it.
And lots of the business is now off shore.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)are members of DU who are against that?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)No matter what you do there are some workers who simply aren't going to have nice comfortable temperatures to work in, those whose work is outdoors, such farm workers and construction workers to name only two categories.
Certain categories of work just seem to be right off the radar on DU, if you live in a building of some sort and/or eat food then some of the people who do those categories of work have contributed directly to your standard of living.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)conditions due to a campaign to improve their conditions - I think that's a good thing. I think that whenever it is possible it is best to improve conditions for workers and I think progressives, Democrats and liberals should celebrate every improvement in working conditions especially for the most vulnerable low wage workers. I just find it strange that some people are against that.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I've read the whole thread and I haven't seen that.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)people should just suck it up. I disagree with that attitude and I think that improved conditions especially for low wage manual laborers are something that should be welcomed by liberals, progressives and Democrats of all stripes.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Because I can tell you that in many cases that's not even remotely the case.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)a higher rate of pay. But that was because of the big bad unions and years of struggle. Sadly too many people think we don't need organized labor or that unions are a thing of the past. I just don't understand this race to the bottom mentality.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)But that fact that not everything is being done about everything doesn't mean that nothing can be done about anything. But yes, hostile conditions should be compensated.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)because jobs that are done in extreme conditions can be done in ways that mitigate those conditions or in ways that ignore the conditions and thus make things as brutal as possible for the workers. They have probably the worst job in the US. The average migrant farm worker in CA is 28, male and born in Mexico, he makes about 5,000 a year in the fields and his life expectancy is 49 years of age. All of that is deeply amoral and certainly not acceptable as the standard, in fact is it a shame that we allow anyone to work under those conditions for that sort of pay. Using their oppression as reason for others to be oppressed is probably not what they want. Then again, they are here to exploit, rhetorically and economically and physically. Life expectancy, 49.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)That it's possible to at least somewhat ameliorate the conditions with some fairly simple modifications.
I think my point that extreme condition jobs for the most part are not compensated nearly adequately for their inherent difficulty not only stands but is enhance by Mr Chavez's words and efforts.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)air-conditioned tents hoisted up around buildings that they're working on, as someone who is being deliberately stupid upthread suggested. When workers do agitate for improved work rules, I find that most DUers are happy to support them.
Most -- not all, as evidenced by this thread.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Amazon workers will soon be working in an air conditioned environment? Can we all agree that this is a good thing and something we all support?
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)along the lines of "why can't *I* have an AC" when they haven't tried to do the hard work of organizing as "being happy" for the workers, then just tombstone me right fucking now.
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)We can't let this kind of mentality take over our party.
Tombstone the "toughen up" crowd, not us.
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)And workers just need to suck it up.
Wouldn't you say that's the same thing?
Zalatix
(8,994 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)Thank you.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)trades have worked (and some shed actual blood) to ensure that they are given access to clean water and proper breaks as the temperature rises.
We aren't here to set warehouse workers against construction workers against farm workers, but to demand humane working conditions for ALL!
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)The workers didn't strike and they didn't organize.
I think it's a sad statement about conditions in america that the only ones who can speak out are those without actual skin in the game. Everyone else is so isolated and afraid that they're powerless.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)conditions that would have been required by law if it had been domesticated animals instead of temp workers for Amazon sweltering in the heat of these warehouses. Still I find it even more confounding that on a liberal/progressive/Democratic forum there are people who do not think that Amazon should have been pressured to improve conditions for the workers who they seem to regard as one poster described "pearl-graspers" who simply need to toughen up. If that is what is now acceptable in liberal circles then things have truly taken a turn for the worse. If such views are acceptable in liberal and progressive circles then our American culture truly has descended into barbarism.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Workers only matter to the extent that treating them really shitty makes the stockholders look bad.
siligut
(12,272 posts)The ceilings certainly don't need to be so high. More consideration when building would have saved money in the long run. Get an energy efficient expert in, save people and energy.
Swede
(34,402 posts)Are people that fucking cruel and stupid?
MineralMan
(147,299 posts)It did get unbearably hot in the summer. The warehouse wasn't air-conditioned, but there was a cool-off room that was air-conditioned. It also had plenty of cold drinks and taking breaks there was not only allowed, but strongly recommended. Nobody was ever criticized for heading to the cool-off room at any time, and none of the workers abused that.
It seemed like a rational solution. Today, though, air-conditioning equipment can cool a large warehouse to tolerable levels. Then, not so much.
Moosepoop
(1,992 posts)... OSHA was notified by a local ER doctor who was treating a high number of Amazon employees for heat-related illness.
The area has a large number of warehouses employing people, but only Amazon had people landing in the ER.
For some time, they weren't even doing the things that other warehouses did during heat spells, such as providing any fans or opening the doors to the loading docks at each end of the building for air flow. They just let the inside of the buildings become ovens, and then issued demerits and ultimately pink slips to employees who succumbed to the heat or even slowed down their work pace at all.
The majority of the employees are "temps" from a hiring agency, resulting in very high turnover as they fired and replaced these employees for not being able to withstand the heat AND keep up the pace they demanded. Throwaway employees -- and throw them away they did (and do).
Here's a detailed article on it from last September... http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-allentown-amazon-complaints-20110917,0,7937001,full.story
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Amazon's choice to use temp workers as "throwaway employees" is similar to Walmart's choice and markedly different from Costco's:
http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinnell/warehouse-workers-abused-walmart-
Some companies, like Costco, refuse to use temp workers in their warehouses:
Costco's well-earned reputation for treating its in-store employees well carries over to its warehouse. The Costco warehouse does not rely on temp workers. It hires employees directly, it pays pretty well and it has a safety representative and even stretching classes. Despite all that, the company still manages to provide some of the lowest prices available to consumers.
"We tend to not outsource even if we could save money by doing it," says Richard Galanti, Costco's chief financial officer. "We recognize it might cost more but we think it's the right thing to do. ... Everyone in the building feels like they're employed."
As to comments about how warehouses are built, sustainability efforts can benefit the employees and the environment and even provide additional benefits:
Again from Costco for the warehouse comparison - 2011 report:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eK1BVVSfLOUJ:http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File%3Fitem%3DUGFyZW50SUQ9MTE5MTk0fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z%26t%3D1%2Bcostco+cseg&client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&gs_l=serp.3...237792.242154.0.242513.11.1.0.10.0.0.306.306.3-1.1.0...0.0.3SHFAMdqR8M&hl=en&ct=clnk
Sustainable Construction and Renewable Energy
The organization Leadership in Energy andEnvironmental Design (LEED) has a certification program that is nationally accepted as a benchmarkfor green building design and construction. Costcos metal warehouse design, one of the warehousedesign styles we have built over the past several years, is consistent with the requirements of theSilver Level LEED Standard. Our metal building envelopes are all insulated to meet or exceed currentenergy code requirements, and our main building structure uses 100% recycled steel material and isdesigned to minimize the amount of material utilized. The roof materials used on our metalpre-engineered warehouse are 100% recycled standing seam metal panels, designed to maximizeefficiency for spanning the structure; and the exterior skin of the building is also 100% recycled metal.In 2008, we opened our first certified Silver Level warehouse in New Jersey. With regard to renewableenergy, by the end of calendar 2011 we will have in operation large rooftop solar photovoltaic systemsat 60 of our facilities, in Hawaii, California, New Mexico, and New Jersey. They are projected togenerate 55 million kWh of electricity per year. We also continue to expand the use of non-chemicalwater treatment systems used in our cooling towers to both reduce the amount of chemicals going intosewer systems and, where possible, reuse that water for site irrigation. By coordinating with state andfederal incentive programs, these and other energy-saving systems help us reduce our carbon footprintand lower the cost of operating our facilities. We continue to evaluate additional opportunities toimprove energy efficiency.
Insulated warehouses that produce energy - not only possible but built and operating.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)suffragette
(12,232 posts)There's a huge gulf between feeling you've suffered and therefore others should have to endure that as well and thinking you've suffered and that we should come together to make it better for everyone now and in the future.
And it's a choice people, companies and governments are always making.
I'll take the latter choice any day and applaud all those who do and disagree with those who don't.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)Great post!
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Once I found the above, I looked around more and many companies have been going in this direction. Posted below on that.
It's possible to create better systems that benefit everyone. Some companies are going to be leaders in that and some like Amazon need the poke in the ribs to prod them in that direction. Unsurprisingly Amazon does little in the way of philanthropy for local communities and had to be similarly prodded to leave ALEC.
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/05/24/489934/amazoncom-becomes-the-eighteenth-group-to-drop-alec/
According to an email ThinkProgress received from the Center for Media and Democracy, one of the leaders of a progressive campaign to push corporations and other funders to break with the American Legislative Exchange Council, online retail giant Amazon.com just announced that it will part ways with ALEC. In the wake of this campaign, ALEC eliminated a task force that pushed voter suppression laws and the so-called Stand Your Ground laws that played a significant role in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin shooting, but the conservative group remains committed to other priorities such as repealing minimum wage laws, eliminating capital gains and estate taxes, and blocking safeguards that protect children from eating rat poison.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2017883663_amazonmain25.html
Amazon a virtual no-show in hometown philanthropy
The world's biggest online retailer is a minor player at best in local charitable giving.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)is an example of what a Corporation can be, offering a great service to the community, while treating its workers with respect.
I had read the views of the founder of Costco, regarding his willingness to pay his workers livable wages rather than, like so many other Corporations, think only of the bottom line. Airc he said he makes enough to live a very good life, that he has taken care of his family and that without his workers he would not have the life he has.
He also is reported to spend time in his stores with the workers. So when I was in Costco in Az, I decided to ask the employees if any of this was true, if they were well paid, if he ever visited the store. One man told me he loves working there, he is part time as he is retired and earns over $17.00 an hr and even as a part timer, has full HC coverage. Another worker told me that yes, the owner does come to the store and was just there a few weeks ago. 'He's a really nice guy' she said.
There are some good corporations and Costco is one of them.
Again, thanks for your comments in this thread, they were badly needed.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)The ironic result being these results:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/business/costco-sales-beat-wall-street-forecast.html?_r=1
Costco Sales Beat Wall Street Forecast
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: February 29, 2012
Their workers and customers clearly value the way Costco operates, but Wall Street has long disparaged them and called for them to shift practices to devalue workers and the communities they serve.
Wrote a bit about it here in DU2:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8769829&mesg_id=8770550
Sinegal long resisted the Wall Street directives even though he could have made a bundle from following them and built a successful company that demonstrates a better model. He still did quite well personally and well by his company. Hopefully his successor follows his lead.
Hmm, on second thought maybe this isn't a side note, but instead is part of what lies at the core of this matter. The practices Wall Street pushes are the opposite of what we need as people, as companies, and as societies. We can and should do better and we have models that show the proof of going in that direction.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)And if they're temp workers they're probably getting paid even less than is being said, since the temp agency is taking a cut.
Glad an employee had the foresight to contact OSHA. They do their job. I work with OSHA people and am OSHA certified on heavy equipment, it was quite worth it.
Response to Amerigo Vespucci (Original post)
Post removed
sibelian
(7,804 posts)People shouldn't really be working in conditions that are likely to cause a collapse from heat exhaustion.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Not the pretend Union blood you play with.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)your comments on this thread would make my father and grandfather sick.
During the Grocery Strike of 2003 we had fellow union members that made statements similar to yours. Those are the ones who crossed the picket line and went back to work. Why? Because they were fine that the contract the company offered kept their pay and benefits intact, it was only new hires that would have lower pay and benefits. It didn't effect them so they didn't care.
We didn't win the right to a forty hour work week etc, by leaving our fellow laborers behind.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)It isn't relevant.
joshcryer
(62,371 posts)Apparently not.
liberalhistorian
(20,844 posts)I also come from strong union blood, and my family, especially the older members of a generation that fought and DIED for better working conditions and pay, would be beyond horrified, disgusted and sickened by your hateful, uncaring, company-first-no-matter-how-many-gazillions-the-CEO-raked-in-every-year-at-the-expense-of-workers, the-hell-with-workers-who-get-sick-or-die-on-the-job-as-long-as-execs-and-the-company-are-taken-care-of-and-we-get-our-cheap-crap-as-cheaply-as-possible attitude. The HELL you come from union blood.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Seriously, are you even for real?
obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)My family has strong union roots, and a friend's great-uncle had his house burned down for trying to unionize a textile mill.
cali
(114,904 posts)man, have you been digging, digging, digging on this thread, dear.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,670 posts)obamanut2012
(27,710 posts)I almost posted the "Pinkerton Union."
Occulus
(20,599 posts)LeftishBrit
(41,302 posts)grandson of one of the leaders of the Jarrow March.
I'll be charitable and assume that you are in favour of some groups of workers and to hell with the others (and those who wish to divide and conquer are rubbing their hands!), rather than that you are a right-winger who values profits over people. But unless we support good conditions for everyone, conditions won't change that much for anyone.
In the UK, this government is working like mad to dismantle workers' rights and regulations on employers, and this needs to be fought. Air conditioning isn't even much of an issue in the UK due to our climate; but valuing people's lives, health and safety over the right of companies to make maximum profits is an issue everywere!
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)From wikipedia:
Heat waves are the most lethal type of weather phenomenon, overall. Between 1992 and 2001, deaths from excessive heat in the United States numbered 2,190, compared with 880 deaths from floods and 150 from hurricanes.[14] The average annual number of fatalities directly attributed to heat in the United States is about 400.[15] The 1995 Chicago heat wave, one of the worst in US history, led to approximately 600 heat-related deaths over a period of five days.[16] Eric Klinenberg has noted that in the United States, the loss of human life in hot spells in summer exceeds that caused by all other weather events combined, including lightning, rain, floods, hurricanes, and tornadoes.[17][18]
jp11
(2,104 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)reflection
(6,286 posts)Last edited Sun May 27, 2012, 08:19 AM - Edit history (1)
and I have designed heating and cooling systems for over 150 warehouses, perhaps 400 office environments, and all conceivable hybrids.
There are a tremendous number of ways to condition a large cubic-foot space. It doesn't cost as much as you might think. In the 25 years I've been in the industry, I've watched average efficiency ratings on packaged DX equipment soar from around 9 EER to around 15 EER. I've also seen the advent of water-source heat pumps which can reach over 20 EER and heat pump chillers which can reject the heat produced from the air-conditioning process to the potable water system. I am seeing chill beam technology get a foothold in the American market. It's never been easier and less expensive to cool a space than it is today.
Frankly, cooling is easier than heating when it comes to worker comfort. Cold air tends to fall, and so you are really only concerned with cooling and dehumidifying the air 10 feet above the ground, since 99% of us are under seven feet tall. Yes, you have to consider the ancillary humidity problems that come with the large cube, but any engineer worth his/her own salt can figure this out with an ASHRAE book and a rudimentary understanding of the psychrometric chart.
All that aside, for a company with the revenues of Amazon to belatedly cool indoor workers with the technology we have today is shameful. It's easy and it's cheap. It makes sense from a business and more importantly, from a human standpoint. Construction workers work in the open, they will always have it harder. We need to do whatever it takes to make their work environment as good as possible. But indoors? That's a no-brainer. What it costs to cool that warehouse/office wouldn't make a blip on Amazon's financials. I design spaces like this every day, all day, and most nights. Smaller companies have done this with ease and Amazon is late to the party.
cali
(114,904 posts)I only wish you'd joined the party way up thread.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)thread..thanks again
reflection
(6,286 posts)but if I post it as an OP, then I've got to hang around and argue with people who are not interested in truth, only winning. If I post the OP and leave it there unattended then I'm a hit-and-run poster. I don't post here often because of the toxic atmosphere but felt the need to correct some misconceptions.
I hate that I got to the thread late, there were a lot of falsehoods in it. Can't cool a warehouse, and warehouses aren't insulated? One's not true, and the other is rarely true.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)I thought this might be the case and it did not take me long to find the info on sustainable building practices by Costco I posted upthread to contrast.
Good to know that the more humane and sustainable systems are becoming the norm.
Something I noticed during my search is that more companies are also utilizing all that flat roof space that comes with warehouses by adding solar panels.
A quick search found the above on Costco
This from UPS:
http://pressroom.ups.com/Press+Releases/Archive/2011/Q2/ci.UPS+to+Harness+Solar+Power+at+New+Jersey+Facility.print
UPS to Harness Solar Power at New Jersey Facility
Atlanta, June 15, 2011
PS (NYSE: UPS) today announced it had installed a rooftop solar array on its Lakewood, N.J., facility, completing a project that will provide a significant portion of the building's peak energy needs. The installation is the first in a series of investments planned by UPS to increase the company's reliance on renewable energy.
The 250 kilowatt (kW) solar power system in New Jersey is expected to produce 270,000 kW hours of electricity annually, providing nearly 30% of the building's annual energy needs. The solar installation also reduces the facility's dependence on the local electric grid. UPS is assessing other facilities now to gauge their suitability for solar installations.
~~~
he 70,000-square-foot Lakewood facility uses a system consisting of 1,036 solar panels, or 62,160 individual photovoltaic cells, installed on the facility's roof space. The facility harnesses light from the sun during the day, feeding the power into the public energy grid. At night, when the package sorting operations take place, UPS consumes energy from the grid. UPS took advantage of New Jersey's net metering rules, which offer compensation for generating excess power during the day and selling it back to the utility.
"The nature of our operation means we use most of our energy at night, so during the day much of the electricity produced by this system will flow back to the grid to support the utilities peak," said Wicker. "At night, when we're sorting the packages, we will draw from the grid the energy needed to power the facility."
This from a freight line warehouse:
http://www.the-dispatch.com/article/20120221/news05/302219989?tc=ar
Old Dominion installs solar panels at Thomasville warehouse
Published: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 1:44 p.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 at 1:44 p.m.
Old Dominion Freight Line has installed rooftop solar panels on its warehouse in Thomasville, the first solar panel system in the company's nationwide network of facilities.
The 1.8-megawatt system, comprised of 7,660 individual solar panels that completely cover the company's 160,000-square-foot roof, is the third-largest rooftop solar panel project of its kind in North Carolina. The system, which has been operating since late December, can produce more than 2.2 million kilowatt hours of electricity a year, enough to offset more than 90 percent of the building's annual energy costs.
This results in an environmental benefit of reducing CO2 emissions by a projected 1,547 metric tons.
The solar panel system is a sound investment for Old Dominion from both an economic and environmental perspective," said Jayna Long, manager of sustainability at Old Dominion. "The electricity produced by the panels is routed into the local power grid and will fulfill the energy needs of nearly 200 homes this year. We are committed to environmental stewardship projects and are using this solar project to determine the feasibility of installing alternative power sources in other facilities in our network."
Edison has even launched a program to install these for community electrical needs and compensates the companies for doing so:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/environment/2010-04-12-rooftopsolar12_CV_N.htm
Edison blankets warehouse roofs with solar panels
Seems Amazon has been making all the wrong choices. This could be their wake-up call to improve practices to effect better labor and community relations and create more sustainable operations that would be better for them in the long term and better for all who work or purchase from them.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)be air-conditioned, else we are all MONSTERS!
cali
(114,904 posts)heat related injuries to the extent that a treating ER doc notified the feds.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)because their life experiences don't support your ideological position.