Full Text of TPP Released to Public... And It's HORRIBLE

[Segami]

'We now have concrete evidence that the Trans-Pacific Partnership threatens our families, our communities, and our environment.'

It's a disaster for people, the planet, democracy, and the future of the global economy. That was the immediate assessment of informed critics as world governments, including the United States, on Thursday morning made the full text of the controversial Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPP) available to the public for the first time. Though a tightly held secret throughout the years-long negotiating process, publication of the entire text (also available online here) confirms the deal's many woeful inadequacies which had been gleaned from leaked drafts and public statements by those privy to its contents.

"The TPP is a disaster for jobs, and environment and our democracy. It is the latest stage in the corporate capture of our society," said Nick Dearden, executive director of Global Justice Now, in response to the full text.

The enormous so-called "free trade" deal between 12 Pacific Rim nations, he continued, "has less to do with selling more goods, than with rewriting the rules of the global economy is favor of big business. Like the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), 20 years ago, it will be very good for the very richest, and a disaster for everything and everyone else. NAFTA entrenched inequality and caused massive job losses in the USA, and TPP is turbo-charged NAFTA." Based on its initial assessment of the text, Sierra Club said—just as predicted—the TPP would threaten the health of communities, the environment, and global climate.

"We now have concrete evidence," said Michael Brune, the group's executive director, "that the Trans-Pacific Partnership threatens our families, our communities, and our environment. It’s no surprise that the deal is rife with polluter giveaways that would undermine decades of environmental progress, threaten our climate, and fail to adequately protect wildlife because big polluters helped write the deal."

Now parked for all to see and review on the website of the U.S. Trade Representative, the deal itself is over 2,000 pages long, broken into 30 separate chapters and various indexes and appendixes. Released one month after the final deal was secured at a final negotiating meeting in Atlanta, Georgia, the publication of the text in the U.S. begins a 90-day review period before Congress.



cont'

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/11/05/full-text-tpp-released-public-and-its-horrible

[Hortensis]

1. The American people have at least 60 days to examine the proposed TPP

before our president can sign it. No analyses by reputable experts are on line yet, so I'll be waiting for those to start being posted.

[Baitball Blogger]

3. BEFORE he can sign it?

So, it's not a done deal?

[Hortensis]

8. Nope. And ITM, please don't trust sensationalist doomsday stories.

Get the real stuff then start raising hell with your legislators as you feel appropriate. We are the most powerful signator in the deal, and no matter how the final version may benefit business over the individual (too much, we can already assume that) there will still be a lot in it for our nation as a whole.

The right wing is wrong. Obama is not a one-world Jewish conspiracy Muslim infiltrator.

[Unknown Beatle]

96. Huh?

It's right there in black and white for all the world to see. And it's not "sensationalist doomsday stories". That's like saying that NAFTA was not all that bad.

Corporations taking over will not be in it for our nation as a whole. Corporations don't give a damn about our economy as long as they're the ones making money. If we're starving and can't breathe because of our air, do you honestly think corporations will feed us and make our air breathable again? Not in a million years.

You're right, "Obama is not a one-world Jewish conspiracy Muslim infiltrator". But he sure is a corporatist by every measure of the word. Why do you think he fought so hard for Trade Promotion Authority (TPA), or "fast tracking" the trade agreements without an up or down vote with no opportunity for amendments. Fast tracking would also reduce Senate ratification from 67 to 60 votes.

And then there's this:

In the transparency annex, the TPP requires countries to give drug companies more rights to monitor and challenge government decisions on reimbursements on drugs, basically to hassle and sue governments when they push back on high drug prices.

It's a nightmare all around.

[Hortensis]

100. "And then there's this" from WHAT, though?

Who wrote that and exactly what are his or her credentials? Come on, Unknown Beatle. This thing was just published. How did "they" get a crew of highly skilled analysts to go through it so quickly? Reputable organizations want to know because their people are still reading and taking notes.

ITM, can I interest you in a bridge? I have a splendid one for sale, ONLY $300 because we're moving and won't have room for it at our new home. Delivery on receipt of your money order?

?w=490&h=326

[Unknown Beatle]

110. Oh, I get it now.

Academia, ecologists, politicians (including but not limited to, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren), professional pundits, attorneys, and 2,009 Organizations are wrong and you're right. Should I listen to you instead?

I have some beach front property to give you in the Sea of Tranquility. Free of charge so take advantage.

[Hortensis]

122. Please send pictures. :)

[Unknown Beatle]

125. Okay

I was relaxing in my lounge chair, drinking a Blue Moon beer and took a picture of my backyard with my iPhone.

[Hortensis]

126. The view is spectacular, I have to admit. :) Easy maintenance yard, too.

[BeanMusical]

196. It's a damn nightmare for sure.

"Corporations don't give a damn about our economy as long as they're the ones making money."

I would add: Corporations don't give a damn about individuals, we're numbers, statistics, minor annoyances. In fact they call us nice names like: The Cattle

And now, screw law. They'll do what the Hell they want to do. .

[moonbeam23]

120. My god are you delusional n/t

[Hortensis]

124. Moonbeam, I'm not sure what to make of that.

If it means you feel our president is betraying his office to hand control of this country over to international business, this forum may not be the right fit for you. There are others for people who are sure of that. ??

[moonbeam23]

134. i've been here since 2004 at least

this IS the right forum for me...

i meant that you are delusional when you said "there will still be a lot in it for our nation as a whole."


If this piece of shit goes through, it is the end of the world as we know it( and i do not tend to get hysterical or exaggerate)

[Hortensis]

155. Okay. I do feel that is quite an exaggeration, though.

Eisenhauer warned of business's infiltration of power long ago, just one of many times the world as we knew it was ending between then and now, and of course before. Heck, how many times since 2004 even? BTW, there are other big, scary international trade deals coming that'll apparently also end the post-TPP world as we know it, maybe before we even get a chance to.

Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about who gets to appoint our next four Supreme Court justices. They could change our world as we know it.

[NobodyHere]

9. Not officially

Congress has to vote on it as well.


Of course with that being said it will pass unless Republicans want to take another anti-Obama stance.

[Hortensis]

44. I think we can assume they will, ultimately on behalf of business.

It'll be interesting to see which of their billionaire factions wins out more, the libertarian anti-government dog-eat-doggers or the establishment we-own-it-and-deserve-to-rulers.

[cui bono]

147. It has been public knowledge for months that Obama is fighting with the GOP for this pos.

[Hortensis]

152. I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Although the GOP establishment is determined to keep Obama from having credit for any achievements, of course, as the party of business they are for the TPP.

[cui bono]

189. I mean what I said. Obama and the GOP are working together in the fight for TPP. n/t

[Hortensis]

190. Okay. Yes, they definitely are, just not for all the same reasons.

I've read that Obama's disappointed the GOP on tobacco and big pharm and suspect they've had other losses too. But I don't know.

[GoneFishin]

11. The deck has been stacked to slide it through unimpeded. Theoretically it might not be enacted ...

theoretically.

[jeff47]

87. It's a done deal. We're in Kabuki mode now.

TPA means there is no filibuster to stop the TPP vote. Also, the TPP isn't legally a treaty, so it only needs a simple majority to pass Congress. Which can be accomplished with 100% Republican votes.

And there's no way in hell Obama is not going to sign it when Congress rubber-stamps it.

This "review window" is bullshit designed to look like there is meaningful review.

[Baitball Blogger]

94. What happens if there is a massive public protest organized in the coming weeks over this?

Ironic, wouldn't it, if this issue determines the election.

[jeff47]

95. Nothing.

Republicans have no reason to respond to such a protest, and Obama is never running for office again.

If anything, such a massive protest accelerates the process, to ensure the TPP is all signed and sealed so that Clinton can continue to pretend to oppose it.

The battle was done when TPA passed.

[Hortensis]

108. BUT the party is in a battle for the future of America.

You are wrong that we have no say. We probably won't bother to insist we do, however, so in practical terms in the end it'll likely be the same.

I repeat, though, that I do not believe President Obama has any intention of imposing a fascist, business-controlled government on America. That's the right-wing Kool-Aid. There ARE many things in play here, such as a world dominance struggle between the U.S. and China and the genuine power of international business that no president can simply set aside. We will win some, we will lose some, but President Obama doesn't lead the most powerful nation on the planet to no benefit to its people.

Speaking of losing, you do know that our "own" (private business organization, thank god!) U.S. Chamber of Commerce was boasting that they'd fixed the TPP so it would allow tobacco companies to sue participating nations for losses of revenue from anti-smoking laws? Last I heard, they lost. Still have to confirm that, but I expect to hear of other gains and losses -- both big businesses' and ours.

[jeff47]

109. :rofl:

I repeat, though, that I do not believe President Obama has any intention of imposing a fascist, business-controlled government on America.

Then why has he worked harder to pass the TPP than any other initiative during his time in office?

There ARE many things in play here, such as a world dominance struggle between the U.S. and China

The TPP does nothing to China.

The theory is that stronger trade relations with these countries would gain us influence. But there's nothing in the TPP that prevents these countries from having their own "free trade" agreements with China. And in fact, they would be better off with the TPP and an agreement with China. And the TPP prevents us from retaliating if they do.

We will win some, we will lose some, but President Obama doesn't lead the most powerful nation on the planet to no benefit to its people.

And the TPP is a "lose some" that he has rammed through our government.

Speaking of losing, you do know that our "own" (private business organization, thank god!) U.S. Chamber of Commerce was boasting that they'd fixed the TPP so it would allow tobacco companies to sue participating nations for losses of revenue from anti-smoking laws?

Make sure you let laid-off factory workers know that. I'm sure that will soothe their empty stomachs.

[GoneFishin]

168. Pffft. What a crock. BO went to bat for TPP, blew his complete wad of political capital on it.

Who are you shitting?

[joshcryer]

116. you need a SOPA style or FCC style protest

Phone lines cluttered, fax machines out of paper, aids completely overwhelmed, etc

Of course the defeatism is precisely because this is not an issue that can result in internet slacktivists actually doing shit, they only act when their special social media space is threatened.

Just like the NSA the hype behind TPP has caused alarming apathy.

[hifiguy]

129. It's his "legacy"

and he is working almost entirely with Repigs to get it through. Which should tell you all you need to know.

He is well aware that if he rams this through he will be rewarded by its beneficiaries to a degree that makes what they gave the Clintons for the services they both rendered to the oligarchy look like a thousand-dollar-shopping spree at Wal-Mart. He will be a billionaire within five years of leaving office and nothing's gonna stand in the way of THAT payoff. Especially the people.

[Hortensis]

158. So you believe our president betrayed America for 50 pieces of silver.

Sad. IMO, he's quite capable of figuring out a number of far easier and far more lucrative ways of becoming wealthy, but believe what you must. Or what pleases. Whatever.

[GoneFishin]

169. Not believe, know for certain.

[truebrit71]

185. You mean like the ones prior to the Iraq war?

Now, as then, sweet fuck all will happen.

[still_one]

102. I guess what bothers me is why don't they quote the trouble aspects from the agreement, instead of

paraphrasing it.

I will wait until I see actual portions of it that are troublesome

[1StrongBlackMan]

174. Perhaps ... We should compile a list of, or at least, ...

the criteria for "reputable experts".

I'll go first:

Paul Krugman - I pick him because he is a Nobel Prize winning economist that indicated early on ... before he could judge the good or bad of the agreement, he would have to read the agreement. (Basing one's opinion on fact??? What a quaint idea.)

[bvar22]

197. Krugman was a big cheerleader for NAFTA,

and hyped it for years.

Krugman changed his mind, and started lining up with the anti-NAFTA people
ONLY after the disastrous results started flowing across our TV screens.

"Paul Krugman was himself a “supposed authority” who gravely misled the American public on how to think about free-trade globalization. As threatening losses and dislocations accumulated for the US, the celebrated economist was like Voltaire’s Dr. Pangloss, assuring everyone not to worry. Pay no attention to those critics dwelling on the dark side of globalization, he said. Economic theory confirms that free trade is the best of all possible policies in this best of all possible worlds."

http://www.thenation.com/article/why-was-paul-krugman-so-wrong/

(the rest of the this article from The Nation is worth the read.)

I give him credit for "evolving" after the facts were undeniable.



Now....if you are really interested in what Krugman has to say about the TPP,
you can start here:

[font size=3]President Obama has lost Paul Krugman on TPP[/font]
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/22/1386858/-President-Obama-has-lost-Paul-Krugman-on-TPP

[1StrongBlackMan]

198. Does that mean he cannot be objective in his analysis of TPP? ...

Anyway ... Who would be your pick of "reputable pundits"? n/t

[bvar22]

199. You asked, I answered, clearly and unambiguously, with reputable sources.

At this point, I will not play Move the Goal Posts with you.
Good Day.

[1StrongBlackMan]

200. How is your NOT responding to the question ...

ME moving the goal post?

[progressoid]

188. Here is the Sierra Club's initial analysis.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sites/www.sierraclub.org/files/uploads-wysiwig/INITIAL%20ANALYSIS%20-%20ENVIRO%20IMPLICATIONS%20TPP.pdf

[ismnotwasm]

2. I just started reading it

It's gonna take a while.

[Sunlei]

12. do you have a link to the actual document please.

Thanks in advance.

[pampango]

16. Here it is.

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/TPP-Full-Text

[Sunlei]

22. Thank you. was so much on https://ustr.gov/ , I couldn't find the plain text :P

[still_one]

105. Thanks

[Jim Lane]

30. Link is in the OP but here it is again

"TPP Full Text" is actually the table of contents. For each of the 30 chapters, you can click on the title and get the full text of that chapter, or select "Chapter Summary" for the summary. There are also clickable links to a bunch of Annexes and Related Instruments.

[Sunlei]

43. Thank you, yes I found it, & got lost in the letters over some fish callad 'Basa' Vietnam will

will trade with us, they agree to use USA food safety regulations/testing.

[Hekate]

58. They agree to us USA food safety regulations? Glorioski, that sounds almost...like a good thing. nt

[Sunlei]

60. yes, & some of the drug 'deals' use Canadas much better than USA consumer RX drug 'laws'

[Hekate]

62. OH NOES, CANADA?! No true Murkin would ever buy drugs from Canada...oh, wait.

[jeff47]

81. Just don't look at the part regarding intellectual property rights on those drugs. (nt)

[Sunlei]

85. yes, the USA has a lot wrong with 'rights on meds' thats why its better to use Canada's and other

countries laws. Prices are much lower there. So is healthcare.

Though I have to give Congress a little credit they already use the words "price gouging" for that creep with the 750 dollar pill. They must have read my emails last month *wink*

[jeff47]

91. It doesn't use Canada's laws. It uses more-or-less US laws.

The parts that use Canada's laws are about retail sales. The intellectual property provisions most closely resemble US laws.

[Art_from_Ark]

80. Japan has better food safety regulations

So Japan is actually agreeing to come DOWN to the US level.

[Sunlei]

88. Dolphins don't think so

[Art_from_Ark]

90. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever

[Sunlei]

92. It does to Dolphins!

[Recursion]

154. OMG that has been an epic 10-year absurd fight

I think there have literally been 20 court cases at this point over whether or not Basa is a catfish.

[still_one]

103. It's huge

[ruffburr]

4. Any thing-

That is developed behind closed doors and kept secret from the people is not going to turn out well for the country, Why else keep it secret? How do you spell DOOM? No matter how you spell it, This deal is the end of our sovereignty and The middle class, Welcome to the Banana Republic of america

[Hortensis]

6. Well, how do you spell "60 days to examine"? I'm not reading it myself,

though, since I feel I'll benefit from the evaluations of GENUINE EXPERTS in various fields. It is a long and complex legal document, after all.

[randome]

7. Like the Iran nuclear deal? Every treaty is negotiated without your or my involvement.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers, it's still gonna hurt.[/center][/font][hr]

[Scootaloo]

135. Granted. Now, which will have more of an impact on your life?

A sweeping trade agreement, or a treaty with one nation that secures that it can only do what it was going to do in the first place?

[Recursion]

153. Probably the Iran deal. I haven't seen much different from our existing trade agreements yet (nt)

[WillyT]

5. More Here:

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-details_563b2a6de4b0307f2cac2072

& Rec !!!

[Punx]

10. Thom Hartmann

Is going to town on it right now.

If anything, it's worse than expected and that's saying something. My local Rep is going to have a lot of "Splaining" to do.

[F4lconF16]

17. Yeah I'll be talking to mine this week. Nt

[AzDar]

13. ...

[Sunlei]

14. I like these "firsts" quite a bit. USA already has these rules but some other TPPcountries do not.

Other firsts cited by the partners - Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States and Vietnam - include the first commitments to discourage imports of goods produced by forced labor and to adopt laws on acceptable working conditions, and the first prohibition on harmful fisheries subsidies.

[Hekate]

59. Gee, acceptable working conditions and no forced labor? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked...

...that Obama would have the nerve to negotiate for such things.

btw, thanks, Sunlei

[Sunlei]

63. OK with me if we call it Obamatrade :P

If the President signs it before Republicans strip away all of Americas food safety laws , lol

[jeff47]

78. Just don't look too closely on the recent forced labor report on Malaysia.

And the sudden upgrade they received, despite continuing to use slaves.

[rhett o rick]

97. "discourage imports of goods produced by forced labor " Now that's some tough language.

How is "discourage" defined for that use? Frown and a shake of the finger. What are the penalties for using forced labor etc.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

101. Hillary will tell them to cut it out. n/t

[Enthusiast]

121. Just what I was thinking. Corporations are benevolent. They would never do any harm to us.

[Sunlei]

106. This is a "first commitment" for some of these countries.Can you find what happens in the TPP text?

[Recursion]

162. Much more important is the required changes to Vietnam, Malaysia, and Brunei's laws

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027320800

[Hoyt]

165. Better than what existed before. With Obama, it's never good enough.

[tkmorris]

132. "discourage"? That doesn't sound very toothsome

[Recursion]

167. Check out the changes to domestic law Malaysia and Brunei have to make to ratify

Those at least seem pretty toothsome. The first minimum wage in Brunei's history and the first recognition of a legal right to strike. Malaysia outlawing recruiting fees for foreign workers (that's the main way debt bondage is contracted). Both making it illegal to hold a worker's passport.

[rhett o rick]

181. Regulations, rules and laws are nothing w/o enforcement. nm

[Recursion]

183. Yeah, that's what those "secret tribunals" people complain about are for

If they violate those provisions, the USTR or AFL can sue them in those tribunals. Just like has happened dozens of times with Mexico under NAFTA.

[fbc]

15. We need to start calling this ObamaTrade

So republicans can't vote for it.

[Populist_Prole]

19. That's what Thom Hartmann suggested

If calling your representitive and they happen to be republican.

Anything to stop this deal is worth it.

[pampango]

21. The republican base is way ahead of you on this.

http://obamatrade.com/

ObamaTrade trashes American jobs and sovereignty

Time to replace CongressCritters who voted for ObamaTrade

The Heroes who voted Against Obamatrade- and the Traitors who voted For it

[Sunlei]

45. I guess Republicans ciggie Corps, don't want plain pack ciggies like they have in Australia :P

[blackspade]

18. 'We now have concrete evidence that the Trans-Pacific Partnership threatens our families.....

'our communities, and our environment.'

We had that a year ago at least, but the naysayers all insisted that we keep quiet until the 'final text' was revealed....
Well here we are.....

[Fairgo]

50. And now they caution us

To wait until the experts tell us what it means.
Then they pick the experts.

[Hekate]

61. Or, contrariwise, you can read it for yourself like the free citizen you are. nt

[jeff47]

73. Sure! That way you can not know that Malaysia has slave labor

and that recent US reports were changed to claim otherwise.

Then you can pretend the TPP actually improves worker conditions.

[Hekate]

82. I look forward to the citations, as we used to call them in Ye Olde Days.

Ta!

[jeff47]

84. Don't ask for what you do not want to see.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-27/u-s-upgrades-malaysia-cuba-saudi-arabia-on-human-trafficking

http://www.aflcio.org/Press-Room/Press-Releases/AFL-CIO-Condemns-State-Department-Upgrade-of-Malaysia-on-Trafficking-List

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/17/business/international/report-cites-forced-labor-in-malaysia.html?_r=0

[frylock]

133. Errrrrr.. uhhhmmmm

[Fairgo]

164. Thats embarrassing

hope lessons were learned in that exchange.

[Recursion]

170. Have you seen the legal changes Malaysia has agreed to make?

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Final-Text-Labour-US-MY-Labor-Consistency-Plan.pdf

Outlawing recruiter fees for foreign workers (the chief source of debt bondage)

Outlawing the holding of an employee's passport

Mandating the display of information about the rights of freedom of movement workers have in Malaysia (there's no language requirement, but hopefully they'll fix that)

Overturning their equivalent of the "right to work" law

Automatically staying administrative decisions against unions if the unions appeal

[jeff47]

184. Yes, and I expect them to be utterly toothless, since we went ahead and

"let them off the hook" before those changes were made.

[RedCappedBandit]

175. And they're still telling us to just wait until it can be explained to us. /eyes

[barbtries]

20. so it can still be voided or voted down?

with this issue and the warmongering, Obama has broken my heart.

[SoapBox]

24. Yup...

Not the kind of hope and change I was looking for.

[Jim Lane]

34. The U.S. won't be included unless Congress approves, but the path is greased.

Because the TPA ("fast track&quot was enacted in June, the rules for considering the TPP include: simple majority vote in each house of Congress, no amendments, no filibuster, and very tight time limits on each stage of the process (such as committee consideration).

Support for fast track included some legislators who relied on the technical point that they weren't approving the TPP, just approving procedural rules governing the consideration of trade agreements over the next several years. It's at least possible that some of them will vote against this specific agreement.

[jeff47]

68. Not really.

TPA means there's no filibuster to stop it in the Senate. And legally it isn't a treaty, so it only needs a simple majority to pass Congress.

So while it's theoretically possible to stop it, it will not be stopped.

[rhett o rick]

128. Technically it can be voted down, but not likely with the Corps controlling most of Congress. nm

[SoapBox]

23. Sickening.

[Plucketeer]

32. Are you kidding?

"The Gold Standard of Trade Agreements" was the initial assessment. So now, how can it be so bad???

[Hortensis]

40. I'm guessing "sickening" doesn't know, just feels it in the gut? :)

I'll be interested in reading what Robert Reich has to say about it. He wasn't at all happy about what he was hearing back in January.

[AgingAmerican]

47. Maybe she meant to say 'Mold Standard'?

[Plucketeer]

53. Or "Old" standard

[snooper2]

25. LOL, did they write this "article" before it was even released, just had it ready to go!

Maybe try READING the fucking thing first and point to problems in it-

[Hekate]

64. Surely responsible journalists and commentators would have read it all the way through first. Right?

[aspirant]

148. No

"responsible journalists and commentators" can read it chapter by chapter and respond on each

[jeff47]

79. It doesn't take long to confirm the leaked chapters are in the final agreement. (nt)

[jalan48]

26. I'm surprised the corporate DUers haven't jumped to Obama and Hillary's defense on this one.

[Hekate]

65. Oh shucks. Generic insults are passè. Try again.

[jalan48]

66. It's not genetic.

It's Hillary and sexism. The elephant in the room is her husband.

[Hekate]

69. Ge-ner-ic

ge·ner·ic
jəˈnerik/
adjective: generic

1.
characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things; not specific.
"chèvre is a generic term for all goat's milk cheese"
synonyms: general, common, collective, nonspecific, inclusive, all-encompassing, broad, comprehensive, blanket, umbrella
"a generic classification for similar offenses"

[jalan48]

72. My bad on the spell check.

My point is the same-to call out one of the most ethical members of the Senate for supposed 'sexist' remarks while you remain married to one of the most sexist politicians is the height of hypocrisy.

[OnyxCollie]

27. But Woody likes it!

This machine supports fascists.

[IDemo]

31. This land ain't your land n/t

[Fairgo]

55. I always found that avatar ironic

Woody would not recognise this country

[Sunlei]

39. You should read it, parts of it are facinating to me like this letter (here) about fish trade.

Such attention to small details.

The Honorable Mr. Vu Huy Hoang Minister of Industry and Trade The Socialist Republic of Viet Nam
Dear Minister Hoang:
I have the honor to confirm the following understanding reached between representatives of the Government of the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam and the Government of the United States of America (individually a “Letter Party” and collectively the “Letter Parties”) during the negotiations of the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement:
In reference to the inspection program for Siluriformes, which include pangasius, tra and basa, established by Section 11016 of the Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008 (2008 Farm Bill) (Public Law 110-246) and Section 12106 of the Agricultural Act of 2014 (2014 Farm Bill) (P.L. 113-79):
1. The Letter Parties, recognizing the importance of pangasius, tra and basa to farmers in Viet Nam, agree to consult with one another in accordance with their laws and regulations, in a timely manner, upon the request of a Letter Party, on the implementation of the final rule that will implement the inspection program for Siluriformes established by Sections 11016 and 12106 (“the final rule”). The United States intends to implement the final rule in a manner not inconsistent with its obligations under the WTO Agreement.
2. With a view to fostering trade of Siluriformes, the United States is considering a transitional period for the implementation of the final rule, during which the United States would continue to allow imports from foreign countries, including Viet Nam, of Siluriformes if they comply with U.S. laws and regulations.
3. The United States shall, subject to the availability of appropriated funds, work with Viet Nam and other interested parties to identify and provide technical assistance, as appropriate, regarding the requirements of the final rule, including workshops to promote understanding of the new requirements, in an effort to help the Government of Viet Nam and other interested parties understand the requirements of the final rule.
I have the honor to propose that this letter and your letter in reply confirming that your Government shares this understanding shall constitute an agreement between our two Governments, which shall enter into force on the date of your letter in reply.
Sincerely,
Ambassador Michael B.G. Froman

[Hekate]

67. Ahhh, catfish. Very tasty...

Catfish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish
Wikipedia
Catfishes (order Siluriformes) are a diverse group of ray-finned fish. Named for their prominent barbels, which resemble a cat's whiskers, catfish range in size ...

[salib]

137. It looks to me that the only commitment in the text you have is to talk and come to some agreement in the future.

Am I wrong?

[restorefreedom]

28. if it is as bad as it appears,

anyone in Congress who votes for it should be primaried, and there needs to be a big and loud protest to the president to withdraw his support for this horrible deal. This will end democracies all over the world, lives will be lost, the environment will be toast, and the people will become a slave race for the corporate masters. This is one issue that should unite people of all parties or no party, and supporters of all candidates. A corporate takeover of the world cannot be allowed to happen.

[kelliekat44]

143. Where does it a"appear" to be bad? Please explain what is so "horrible." Corporate take over???

How so? I see a lot of protections for our small businesses and farmers. And as for dismantling environmental regs in the US:

"ISDS cannot change law in the United States or any other country. No government measure (federal, state, or local) can be blocked or reversed under the ISDS provisions or any other part of TPP. The United States would never negotiate away its right to regulate in the public interest, and we don’t ask other countries to do so either. This is true with regard to public health and safety, the financial sector, the environment, and any other area where governments seek to regulate."

[restorefreedom]

151. are you sure you are in the right place?

sounds like you have been reading the repub talking points

http://theantimedia.org/our-worst-nightmares-confirmed-full-text-of-tpp-finally-revealed/

[olddots]

29. I too feel heart broken

and feel that if I express it I'll be exiled .

[Hekate]

33. I am truly impressed at how fast you've all read it all the way through.

We've got 2 months and all the critics did it in, what, 2 minutes?

[pampango]

36. If you KNOW it is bad, or if you KNOW it is good, it does not take long for find confirmation.

For the rest of us, it takes a while to read the actual agreement to see if we think it represents progress or regression (as opposed to seeking perfection or the apocalypse).

[Marty McGraw]

41. All foreign trade deals

Not written under the auspices and representative of the general public's wishes is CRAP. We actually could forgo all trade deals all together and do just fine as a country.

[pampango]

107. Before FDR we did forego all trade deals though we weren't exactly doing just fine as a country.

FDR is the one who got the foreign trade deal going.

[blackspade]

177. Really?

Which trade deal would that be?
Lend-Lease?

[pscot]

180. He did stop oil shipments to Japan

An untrade deal.

[zipplewrath]

56. Well, be honest

Much of what has been leaked actually ended up in the agreement. So mostly what people are doing is searching for what WASN'T already known. So far, no one has particularly found anything, either missing or new. But it is a big document, there could be much more hidden in there. It is interesting that the White House made no attempt to "get ahead" of this by putting out "highlights" or "talking points". I suspect that is because there is nothing to highlight, or they know the deal is already done.

[riderinthestorm]

52. Many bad parts are already out there thanks to Wikileaks

So for many, they already know where the trouble spots are.

[JPZenger]

35. Well at least Japan has agreed to allow imports of more french fries from the US, under this deal

I swear I'm not making that up.

The big winner would be Vietnam, which has dirt-cheap labor, and is taking jobs away from China. I hear that after the Communists won, Vietnam became a workers paradise.

[Sunlei]

42. China is not a signer or party to TPP. China would like to continue to exploit Vietnam 'workers'

[jeff47]

70. And China will exploit Vietnam's workers.

There's nothing in the TPP that prevents an agreement between Vietnam and China.

[Sunlei]

75. Thats right and China does exploit their workers and probably will continue to off any fishing boats

that happen to get close to Chinas new 'Island'

[Hekate]

86. There's a reason China is NOT a signatory. TPP links all the other Pacific nations...

...and gives them greater strength against China. Which nobody here wants to acknowledge, for some unknown reason.

[jeff47]

93. It doesn't do shit against China.

The claim is that by having stronger trade relations with these countries, we will gain influence with these countries instead of China gaining influence.

But there's nothing that prevents these countries from entering trade agreements with China. Vietnam is free to negotiate a "free trade" deal with China and still be in the TPP. And why would Vietnam not do so? They get the best of both worlds.

Yes, I am aware that the talking point is that the TPP works against China, but there's nothing backing up that talking point besides wishful thinking.

[pampango]

111. Several of the TPP countries already have such agreements with China: Australia, New Zealand, Chile,

Peru and Singapore. The US has free trade agreements with all 5 except for New Zealand.

[Hekate]

112. It's not a declaration of war, it's a trade agreement.

[jeff47]

114. And the trade agreement could require not entering into other trade agreements.

For example, you could have a trade agreement that requires all other countries to get a "worse" trade agreement than you.

But the TPP doesn't do that. There is nothing preventing any TPP countries from making additional agreements with China.

[Hekate]

117. It could. But does it?

[jeff47]

118. You could bother to read the last 2 sentences of that post. (nt)

[eridani]

150. It most assuredly is a delcaration of war--on the 99% by the 1% n/t

[George II]

37. The Table of Contents is a dozen pages or so. You've read the whole thing already?

[jeff47]

71. Leaks were already analyzed. It doesn't take long to confirm the leaked chapters are in it. (nt)

[AgingAmerican]

38. So TPP is a Fascist road map for world takeover?

Oh wonderful....

[rhett o rick]

98. So is that what you think? nm

[AgingAmerican]

140. Corporate government = fascism

We have been experiencing creeping fascism since Reagan.

This kicks it into high gear.

[rhett o rick]

146. I agree. I thought that you were being facetious in the other post. nm

[pampango]

113. The tea party folks think it is a Socialist road map for world takeover.

http://obamatrade.com/

[Hekate]

115. It's always heartwarming to see the far right and the far left shake hands. nt

[hifiguy]

130. It is more feudal than fascist.

Judicial functions are taken away from courts and placed with unelected panels of corporate-owned lawyers, whose allegiance is solely to their clients and all that nice, sweet money. the People have the right to sit the fck down, shut the fck up and lick the proffered boot.

Feudal economic structures served by a fascist power structure is the way it looks to me. The Gilded Age wet dream finally brought to life.

As only Nixon could go to China, only a Democrat can finish selling the country to the oligarchy.

[marym625]

46. well knock me over with a feather! I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

you mean wikileaks was right? That NEVER happens

[Phlem]

48. Blink blink blink

But I'm still voting for the lady who helped write it!

Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!

[lark]

49. Feeling vindicated and sick at the same time.

Yes, you could see the writing on the wall a mile away on this. A lot of us knew that Obama was screwing us massively, but many on here were saying that it wasn't so, he wouldn't turn all corporatist on us, he wouldn't hurt workers, etc. etc. Well, now we have the full proof that this is every bit as bad as advertised by Warren and Reich.

For shame, Obama, for shame!!!

[lovuian]

51. New World Order

is here folks

[riderinthestorm]

54. Boy I miss cali...

I don't think anyone in DU was following this as closely as she was.

Her knowledge of what had already been leaked was impressive, and she was very savvy about the trouble spots.

While I strongly encourage everyone to examine the document themselves, I always appreciated her insight.

If you're lurking cali, please know you're on my thoughts today as this is released.

[Fairgo]

57. Second that

Always a good source

[Art_from_Ark]

83. I have been following this closely

I posted two OPs about this, including on OP about an anti-TPP rally I attended in Tokyo earlier this year where I met a man who had been involved in the negotiations.

[riderinthestorm]

89. I'm going to stalk your name then for the next few weeks!

Seriously, I really can't overemphasize how helpful those posts are.

Please keep it up. I was just posting to magical thyme on another thread about how hard it is for some of us to wade through the text especially when we don't have big blocks of time.

Thanks for all your doing. This is enormously important.

[Art_from_Ark]

131. Here's my OP from last May

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026753877

[Octafish]

144. Thank you, Art_from_Ark. Outstanding OP and thread.

TPP passes, we are steadfastly screwed. TPP is undemocratic, if notfascist. Whatever, it guarantees wealth is for the wealthy. Those whose work creates it, like those who live above the earth's riches, are SOL.

[Art_from_Ark]

179. Here's a more recent thread about the TPP

where words were put in my mouth, and I was told that what I learned at the rally in May had no bearing because it was October, and all the bad stuff had been cleaned up, or something like that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251722169

[Shandris]

74. So let's play "Track the Tactic".

Based on observation so far in this thread, the current paid tactic is "You haven't read it." Off-the-cuff next prediction: You aren't qualified to understand it.

[jeff47]

77. Don't forget "pretend the language in the agreement trumps reality".

So far I've seen:
Argument: TPP says it stops slave labor. Reality: Report on slave labor in Malaysia was altered to say they do not use slave labor.

Argument: The agreement has chapters on Environment, so it must do something about climate change. Reality: Nothing about climate change in TPP.

[rhett o rick]

99. One has to be trained to read around the rhetoric. Lots of rhetoric. nm

[Octafish]

145. He's had to negotiate a treaty that Republicans will support.

Why, I don't know. I do know Commerce Secretary and Chicago banksters Penny Pritzker approves.

[polichick]

104. Fuckin' gold standard!

[Enthusiast]

119. Kicked and recommended! Hear that? It's feckin' horrible!

We knew it.

We must stop this thing and the TTIP.

[Egnever]

157. That's what you go off of?

This sounds pretty decent to me.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/05/tpp-trade-deal-new-zealand-releases-text-online

In response to US pressure, TPP countries agreed to give drug companies about eight years of protection from cheaper competitors for biologics, which are ultra-expensive medicines produced in living cells. The industry had sought 12 years protection.

The agreement stresses that its provisions on patents for medicines “do not and should not prevent a Party [country] from taking measures to protect public health”.

The agreement says it “should be interpreted and implemented in a manner supportive of each Party’s right to protect public health and, in particular, to promote access to medicines for all”.

While the deal allows multinational companies to challenge laws and regulations in private tribunals on the grounds they amount to unfair barriers to trade, it also includes safeguards against abusive claims and guarantees governments the right to enforce health, labor, safety and environmental regulations in the public interest.

Countering worries that companies might be able to overturn local anti-smoking laws, countries can specifically ban tobacco companies from using the tribunals to challenge health regulations — likely to the consternation of US lawmakers from tobacco-producing states.

[Enthusiast]

163. It sucks. It's horrible.

[hifiguy]

123. Kneel before your corporate overlords, pigs.

We OWN your governments and they do OUR bidding alone.

[guillaumeb]

127. The FIRE industries furnished most of President Obama's campaign cash.

They have been waiting for their payback for 7 plus years.

And now they have it. Congress agreed to fast track this disaster and the President will certainly sign something that he has been pushing for years.

[Art_from_Ark]

141. He's already said he will sign this "sometime after January"

At least, that's what the latest Japanese news has said.

[sulphurdunn]

136. The need to reign in corporate power is self-evident and always has been.

“The great corporations which we have grown to speak of rather loosely as trusts are the creatures of the State, and the State not only has the right to control them, but it is duty bound to control them wherever the need of such control is shown.”

― Theodore Roosevelt

[uppityperson]

139. Paper clip collecting

[kelliekat44]

142. I just wish that when a critical statement is made that it be referenced in the TPP text and be

explained as to how it negatively impacts US workers or harms the environment. I must not be reading the same document. Using such words as "horrible" and "harmful" "dangerous" etc ought to be accompanied with examples and specific references in the document.

[aspirant]

149. Bernie's staff

should have deciphered many chapters by Debate time and then stress the outrages with Clinton.

Bernie must put it on full display in his stump speeches and challenge Hillary to publicly work for its demise.

[Egnever]

156. Boy are you going to be disapointed

[aspirant]

173. Disappointed with Hillary

by not backing up her words with anti-TPP actions, you betcha.

Let Hill and Bill roam the halls of Congress to obtain more NO votes from their endorsers and friends.

[Hoyt]

166. Well, to start -- he and Warren can no longer yell about it not being released until 4 years after

affirmation.

[aspirant]

172. Who cares about that

when Hillary is confronted and now must put up actions against the vile TPP

[billhicks76]

159. Obama Blackmailed?

What embarrassing crap do they have on him to have gotten this along with lobbyists appointed to regulatory positions and flip-flopping on NSA surveillance.

[Recursion]

171. No, it's a fairly decent deal, and in many ways better than our current bilateral agreements

Seriously, you don't need to imagine some scenario where he's being "forced" into this; he charged the trade representative with the broad outlines of a deal and so far it looks like he got them for the most part. This is going to lead to much, much stronger labor laws in the poorer Asian countries that are signatories; unfortunately the environmental goals so far seem much more watered down, which is why I'm still on the fence here.

[davidpdx]

160. K & R

I'm going to take the time to read it and will be highlighting portions. I probably will post an OP about it when I'm finished.

[Recursion]

161. I agree with Sierra about the environmental problems

I have to say the labor sections are surprisingly good. I wish we'd gotten more from Vietnam, but still.

[raouldukelives]

176. What shareholders want, shareholders get.

And all that horror will help fund a lot more jet setting, more three day vacations to exotic locations just so they can share them on social media and fancy dinner parties for socializing with other assorted corporate toadies.

With so many only creating waste, is it any wonder we live with so much garbage?

[secondwind]

178. the only "good" thing I have heard about the TPP was a few weeks ago, when I learned that the reason

for forming a Pan-Asian trading bloc, was to keep China's influence in the region in check.

That is all I have heard.

[HereSince1628]

186. China's political influence or the influence of Chinese Money?

I've never really understood this fully. I don't really have see the need or have a desire for another cold war enemy. I don't really see much political threat from Chinese philosophy or mode of governance. Some of the nations we're going into the deal with have pretty rotten records of exploitation even unto slavery.

However, I easily imagine how American and European financial institutions want Chinese play in regional finance curbed. I can see how multi-national corporations want to protect the system exploits global asymmetries for profit. And I can see how the US government would want a lot of surplus Chinese money to be invested in US treasuries.

I can readily see how this works for big corporations and government--the two favorite action domains of the neoliberal New Dems.

[Rex]

182. The corporate bootlickers love it!

I have no idea why, they will be crushed under the boot just as fast as the rest of us! It is funny watching people sell themselves short for bobbles.

[BeanMusical]

191. Beati pauperes spiritu, dammit.

Wishful ignorance is far less scary than reality.

[Rex]

192. You're right of course.

Easier to pretend we still live in some semblance of a democracy/capitalist society.

[BeanMusical]

193. Yep.

Hey, did you adopt a clone of LOonix's critter? Lol, I almost squashed the screen 3 times!

[Rex]

194. I got bugs from this thread!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027321381



Can't get rid of them now! Dam PC!

[BeanMusical]

195. Lol!

[BeanMusical]

187. We are so fucked.

Thanks Obama.