BREAKING--- Black boxes show bomb brought down Russian jet !!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2015, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)

No malfunctions heard on recovered Black Box. Bomb is heard!!!




PER CNN




Report: Black boxes show bomb brought down Russian jet


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/middleeast/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/index.html


edited for clarity

[Marrah_G]

1. This is very bad....very bad

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. No malfunctions heard on recovered Black Box. Bomb is heard!!!

EOM

[Marrah_G]

11. I feel like the world war 3 is around the corner

and I don't mean that hysterically. With all the wars in the middle east and russia/ukriane, the refugee crisis it just feels like a powder keg ready to blow.

[closeupready]

44. How would that happen, though? If it were THAT easy to start WWIII, then

don't you think it would have happened way long ago?

Not seeing WWIII. No matter how many rotating police lights Drudge puts on his web page.

[FourScore]

65. Let's not forget -- it was the asassination of Archduke Ferdinand that started WWI.

It's that simple.

Not sayin' it's gonna happen now, but I don't think it really takes that much.

[closeupready]

68. Yes, but that called into play mutual defense agreements, heads of state,

and acts of war.

This, on the other hand - don't get me wrong, horrible as it was - involved tourists and stateless fundamentalist gangsters. Additionally, there is no love lost between a state run historically by atheists and those who consider themselves deeply religious.

[CJCRANE]

126. The signs are there

but there is a lot of information out there that is ignored by DU nowadays.

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Which means Russia will have to retatliate, right? n/t

[Renew Deal]

7. Against who?

With terrorism, everyone is an enemy.

[flamingdem]

9. And more, the US and Europeans will have to step it up

Isis is following quite an armageddon playbook here. Gloves will be coming off.

[closeupready]

28. lol - lots of ways to respond.

Retaliation is merely one.

[hifiguy]

73. I am sure Russia still has plenty of very nasty spooks.

The kind who do wet work. They might not be called the KGB anymore but they are still there.

[giftedgirl77]

3. A bomb? As inside the plane?

Not a rocket or other surface to air type of munition?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Inside the plane...

>>>>>>>to inside job.

[msrizzo]

8. Wow....

Suicide bomber or placed on the plane by ground crew? Either way, very very bad.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. THIS

Suicide bomber or placed on the plane by ground crew? Either way, very very bad

[giftedgirl77]

12. Damn.

Sorry I didn't mean to seem like I was second guessing you, just wanted to make sure I was tracking.

[Renew Deal]

6. What are they basing this on?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. This

No malfunctions heard on recovered Black Box. Bomb is heard!!!

[spanone]

40. link.?

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. ...

However, AFP quotes sources close to the investigation as saying that evidence from the plane’s “black box” flight recorders “strongly favours” the theory that a bomb on board brought it down.

One of the black boxes recovered from the crash site shows that the plane suffered “a violent, sudden” end, a source tells the agency.

The flight data recorder shows that “everything was normal during the flight, absolutely normal, and suddenly there was nothing”, it quotes an unnamed source as saying.

France 2 quotes an investigator (in French) with access to the flight recorders as saying that an explosion was audible and that it would not have followed an incidence of engine failure.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/06/tourists-return-from-egypt-amid-reports-bomb-in-hold-downed-russian-airliner-live-updates

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. They are now saying they specifically targeted a Russian passenger jet which is understandable.

EOM

[B2G]

15. The loud boom on the recorder. nt

[jberryhill]

19. And a mechanical failure would not cause a loud boom?

I don't think the tail falling off would be "quiet".

However, I'd suspect the spectral signature of the "boom" is what they are going on.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. European investigators on the ground-"This is not an accident."

EOM

[jeff47]

42. It would also be loud, but it would also not suddenly stop the recording.

Let's say a wing tears off. It would be very loud. But the flight data recorder would dutifully record the plane spiraling into the ground.

In this case, the boom coincides with the end of the data from the data recorder.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. Experts Can Probably Tell The Difference in The Concussion

A bomb would be one sudden compressive noise. The tail tearing off would get incrementally louder as more aluminum and structural steel tore loose.

Just my guess that the investigators could tell the difference.

If you have ever heard a high explosive go off in person, i'm sure you'd agree that there is no other sound like that, even from a couple hundred yards away.

I helped decommission an arsenal and had to help dispose of old ordinance and carboys of TNT and tetril. Set off tons of it. Only a HX sounds like an HX.

[jberryhill]

51. That's what I said

Please note my mention of "spectral signature".

However, I'd suspect the spectral signature of the "boom" is what they are going on.

[krispos42]

110. Even mechanical failures take time to happen.

Built-in redundancy means it's hard for things to just come apart like that.


Jet engine exploding? Planes have survived that without much of a problem... and plenty of black box data. The plane's tanks were still full of fuel, so there should have been very little in the way of fuel vapors to explode. And wings and tails don't generally just "fall off" a plane.


This is very bad, and very deliberate.

[LanternWaste]

54. Your in-depth analysis certainly validates...

Your in-depth analysis certainly validates our impressions of the totality of your breadth of knowledge.

[B2G]

55. What exactly is your problem with me Mr. Waste?

[LittleBlue]

16. Time to take out ISIS

No more fucking around.

[jberryhill]

26. Okay. Drop in when you get back from doing that

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. The Obama haters were marveling just weeks ago that Putin had cleaned em up in a week

when Obama couldn't for two years.

Tra la. Oh well.

Guess not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. His humanitarian impulse is laudable...

I am sure Putin thought he would be taking out ISIS and look what it got him...ISIS should be confronted but they should be confronted under a UN Flag with an actual plan.

[leftynyc]

70. Why?

What difference would that make?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. ISIS needs to be confronted. I prefer the U S not go it alone./nt

[Logical]

106. LOL, the collation of the willing? Again? nt

[leftynyc]

121. Hardly alone

Even the French have sent an aircraft carrier. Fighting alongside the Russians should be interesting. I've felt for a long time that the UN is nothing but "cover" for what these countries want to do anyway. Really just a show.

[Nevernose]

125. Putin has almost totally ignored ISIS.

The vast majority of Russian air strikes in Syria have been against anti-Assad moderates.

[LittleBlue]

87. I was referring to Russia taking off the gloves in Syria

In other words, stop fighting them in Syria. Here's your snark back, I don't want it.

[uppityperson]

29. How? This is a serious question. How?

[LittleBlue]

88. Let Russia deal with it. Stop arming Islamists

That's how I'd do it

[uppityperson]

92. I realized I'm operating on dated information.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027322991

[LittleBlue]

94. ISIS is largely a political problem, not a military one

If we sent ground forces, Isis would be toast. But that isn't politically feasible for us. Plus the problem of what comes afterward.

Actually if you go look at a Syrian faction map, most of Isis's territory is uninhabited. The hard part would be distinguishing civilians from Isis. Russia is notoriously unscrupulous, so it would be easier for them.

Saddam's army in Kuwait was much stronger militarily than Isis. And we basically defeated them in a few days. If Russia is willing to take the cost, we should get out of the way.

[MFrohike]

98. Cool

What's your plan for the immediate insurgency that follows?

[LittleBlue]

99. That's up to Russia

They want to retain Syria in their sphere of influence, let them figure it out.

[MFrohike]

102. Heh

Nice dodge.

[LittleBlue]

103. What the fuck are you going on about? I've been saying this for months

You act like I'm brand new here. I've been opposed to putting our troops on the ground from the beginning and still am. How is "let's stop strategically assisting terrorists to fight Russia" a dodge?

I don't care what insurgency follows because it has nothing to do with us. Let Assad and Russia handle the insurgency, they are more than capable.

[MFrohike]

105. Heh

Look, you're saying Russia should invade Syria just like the US did Iraq. You're of the opinion that it would be easy because they'd fold, just like the Iraqi Army in 03. So, when I asked for your proposal for the immediate, and quite inevitable insurgency that would result, you dodged the question by saying that it's Russia's problem. It's cool if you want to offer hare-brained schemes that have a venerable history of unqualified failure, but don't get whiny when someone points it out.

tl;dr - your strategy sucks

[LittleBlue]

111. Ummmmm lol. Invade Syria? Exactly the opposite. I'm talking about reinstalling Assad and you accuse

me of following the Iraq path, which is exactly the opposite. We got it wrong in Iraq taking out Saddam and then dismantling the government. I'm talking about doing just the opposite: letting Russia deal with it will mean Assad remains in power. No matter how good our intentions, a western country cannot invade a ME country and expect to effectively administrate it.

It's the best of a bad lot of outcomes. We cannot ignore that while secular ME dictatorships are awful, they are effective in stopping groups like Isis from coming to power. We have to accept that, at this point, it is implausible that any new democracy can survive Isis and various other Islamist groups.

Look, you're saying Russia should invade Syria just like the US did Iraq.

What?

Basically you popped off without having a fucking clue as to what I proposed and accused me of dodging. You seem to think Russia has to invade Syria. They're already there cooperating with Assad, there's no invasion. Russia can't invade a country whose leader has already invited them in. Do yourself a favor and log off.

[MFrohike]

115. Oh, I get it

You want Russia to put tens of thousands of soldiers into Syria in order to prop up a regime that doesn't have the manpower or will to reclaim its lost territory. You have been paying attention to that, haven't you? The Alawites are suffering a severe manpower drain due to losses in war and several generations of emigration. Without Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah, the regime would collapse in a matter of months. Yeesh.

Again, your strategy sucks. Don't get me wrong, the Russians are busy trying it right now. It's likely going to fail because it means staying in Syria, in force, for a very long time. After all, let's say they defeat the various militias and IS, then what? You think that will change a thing? IS is nothing but the former Iraqi Army in combination with various defeated Sunni jidadists from Iraq. They've lost a few times and they're still in the field, champ.

As for the invasion bit, that's pretty much what you said, champ. It was your goofy example of Iraq in 03, not mine. I get that you were trying to emphasize how the Iraqi Army folded, but you glossed over the whole what happened after "mission accomplished" thing. That's why I say your strategy sucks. You have a plan to start a fight and no clue whatsoever how to finish it.

Again, your strategy sucks.

[CJCRANE]

123. But it's the opposite plan.

The Iraq invasion was about dismantling a government, that's what led to the chaos.

The proposed plan is to support a government.

[MFrohike]

130. It ends up being the same

Unless the Russians have the good sense not to try to win back the entire country, it'll look exactly like Iraq in short order.

[Calista241]

127. They can install a little mini-Putin, who does what every other two bit despot does

he can kill anyone that speaks out, and then he can kill their families, and their families families. After the obligatory occupation and census.

Call his government the Syrian Workers Party. Put up statues and paintings of himself everywhere and then the problem is solved.

[FlatBaroque]

30. Do you think we should discontinue supplying them arms

before we take them out? John McCain wants to give them TOW missles just like we gave to the Taliban in Afghanistan.

[LittleBlue]

89. We should never have been arming them

That was a huge mistake

[former9thward]

93. The Taliban did not exist when we armed the Mujahideen

Two different things, two different times. #factsandhistorymatters

[ronnie624]

114. The CIA didn't just arm the Mujahideen.

It was instrumental in fomenting and empowering the extremist elements that resulted in the Taliban. This is very obvious. A continuation of the same types of policies, is not going to bring about improvements in Central Asia.

[Lochloosa]

56. You first....link provided

http://www.goarmy.com/learn/apply.html

[LittleBlue]

90. Nope

Read above

[backscatter712]

86. Let the Russians have a go at them.

They are undoubtedly upset about the deaths, and I imagine they're more than happy to get some revenge. Who am I to argue with them. Let the Russians play Whack-a-Mole for a while.

[LittleBlue]

91. Exactly

Bless them in their quest for vengeance and GTFO of the way.

[jberryhill]

95. They did such a fabulous job in Afghanistan

...that part of me is inclined to agree.

Their last middle eastern adventure ended the Soviet Union.

[philosslayer]

100. Big talk

And how do you propose doing that? Going to sign up and go over yourself? Or just beat on your chest in the comfort of your den?

[LittleBlue]

101. See above. nt

[Dawson Leery]

17. If ISIS did this, then it it time to up the air campaign against them.

No more holding back.

[jberryhill]

24. About how many people do we need to kill in order to obtain peace?

Are there estimates on that.

But, definitely, release the Isis-seeking bombs.

[Dawson Leery]

25. Please ask DemocratSinceBirth the same question, since they agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7322250

[jberryhill]

27. You don't have your own opinions?

[Dawson Leery]

34. The professional left is showing it's hypocracy again.

A Bernie supporter is for the campaign against ISIS, silence from the professional left. A Hillary support is for the campaign against ISIS, they are attacked.

[Comrade Grumpy]

129. I'm sorry, the professional left heterodoxy alert system must have been down.

We'll get right on it.

Seriously, really? The professional left? Is that you, Bill O'Reilly?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. My opinion is ISIS needs to be confronted under a UN flag.

EOM

[uppityperson]

32. That link guess to LittleBlue

[Spider Jerusalem]

31. Bombing campaigns don't win wars.

You need troops on the ground for that. And a ground campaign against an insurgent enemy? That went well in Vietnam, eh? Won every battle, lost the war.

[leveymg]

60. The only thing that will work against IS is to target its big contributors in KSA, Qatar and the GCC

It's the only thing they never do, even after 9/11, and it's largely the same financiers. Maybe, the Russians will do what what we won't.

[CJCRANE]

71. It feels like no one wants to get to the source of the problem...

They'd rather play the partisan blame game that only tells half the story, or elucidate the history of the Ottoman Empire, or discuss the intricacies of Sykes-Picot or blame global warming or poverty or a holy book or ancient history or a hundred other things.

Anything to avoid looking at what's causing it in the here and now.

[leveymg]

75. That's because politicians are bought and sold like NY Stocks or porkbelly futures on the

Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

It's a global market for elected US officials, and under Citizen's United, anyone who can buy shares in a U.S. corporation can buy the policy they please. Anyone. Gov't goes to the highest bidder, anywhere. Whatever price the market will bear. Both parties. England has the same problem, only worse. The world's two leading royal families own half of London: the British and the Saudi.

[smirkymonkey]

96. Sigh, we will never go to the source of the problem, will we?

We are actually the problem, we are funding them.

[eppur_se_muova]

78. Even in WWII, they figured that out. It's the armchair generals that don't get it. nt

[moondust]

61. France announced yesterday.

France to deploy largest warship in mission against IS

[Xolodno]

18. Hope Russia goes to the UN.

...and not with a scorched earth policy in Syria.

And this is going to hurt Egyptian tourism. Sissi already brought the hammer down....now, he's probably going to go for a second whack with it.

[Dawson Leery]

22. Thank you Al-Sisi for taking out the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Muslim Brotherhoods are equal to the Nazi's. They were going to eliminate all other groups in Egypt. If any of these thugs or their affiliates are left, then they MUST be dealt with.

[leveymg]

62. MB has long had its principal funders in two places: KSA and the CIA.

For decades, MB served as an all-purpose reliable ally against Nasser and similar secular nationalist regimes across the Sunni Arab world. If there was a Baathist regime, MB was your terrorist anti-communist paramilitary asset. In the north, the Mujahed under the Pakistani ISI (always the Saudis cats paw) was your terrorist and paramilitary pawn of choice in Afghanistan. After the collapse of the USSR, they were the expendables in the the proxy war to strip off the oil-rich strategic southern Russian and Yugoslav regions. In the mid-1990s, the Saudi-allied and Pakistani trained Mujahed became the Taliban, and UBL was dispatched from Sudan to Afghanistan by Prince Turkey as the Saudi liaison. Following al-Qaeda, ISIS is simply the latest mutation of the same covert paramilitary operation groups.

The proverb says know your enemy not by his friends but by his enemies. In the Mideast-South Asia, the enemy is us, and our friends in the region aren't.

[CJCRANE]

74. IMO the tail is wagging the dog now.

We thought we were using them to advance our own geopolitical goals...but in fact they are using us. They get more and more powerful as we get weaker. And most western citizens are oblivious, they haven't figured out what many in the rest of the world see.

[leveymg]

76. The silence about this is deafening in here.

[CJCRANE]

80. Yes, it's not like the old DU.

In the early years there was a freedom of expression here that was unrivalled by virtually anywhere else on the net. We were ahead of the curve on so many stories. We were curious and bold.

There is still some good stuff posted here, but in the main I think many have let their guard down and lost their curiosity, and others have drifted away.

[leveymg]

81. DU's no longer a hospitable environment for original thought. In Skinner's parlance, those who "make

this place suck" appear to have taken over. I think we can thank the concerted efforts by the HRC campaign to make this a sort of gestation chamber for divisive racist and sexist memes of convenience for a lot of that. They are very organized this time, and have exploited all sorts of weaknesses such as DU's "protected groups" as staging areas.

But, still, if not here, where?

[polly7]

128. Exactly. nt.

[uppityperson]

21. Here's a link and info, no hard forensic evidence but most likely

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0SV22R20151106

Moscow suspended passenger flights to Egypt and Washington imposed new air travel security requirements in the wake of the crash of a Russian jet in Egypt, as Western officials pointed on Friday to the conclusion it was brought down by a bomb.
(Clip)


The sound of an explosion could be heard on the black boxes recovered from the plane, according to an investigator who had access to them, French TV station France 2 said on its website. The investigator ruled out engine failure, it added.

British and U.S. spies intercepted "chatter" from suspected militants as well as internal communication about the incident from one other government that suggested a bomb, possibly hidden in luggage in the hold, had downed the airliner, Western intelligence sources said.

The intelligence sources, who spoke on customary condition of anonymity, said the evidence was not categorical and there was still no hard forensic or scientific evidence to support the bomb theory....

[cwydro]

35. I also read that British tourists reported that by paying about 30 bucks as a bribe,

they could avoid security and bag screening.

[choie]

66. Would love to know when British and U.S. spies

intercepted "chatter." ....where were our vaunted intelligence agencies? Not to mention Egypt's airport/airline security...

[freshwest]

33. Goodness, how many people were on this plane? No one survived from the pic I saw online.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/06/us-egypt-crash-idUSKCN0SV2ML20151106?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

to: MowCowWhoHow III

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141252875#op

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. About 250

[freshwest]

104. That is terrible, and a major loss. No wonder Putin stopped the flights. Thanks. n/t

[Baitball Blogger]

37. Can't believe it took this long to figure it out.

[LongTomH]

38. CNN report says a US satellite detected a "heat flash" before the breakup

(CNN)The clues emerging so far about the final moments of Metrojet Flight 9268 don't paint a clear picture of what happened to the doomed passenger jet.

Was a midair heat flash that a U.S. satellite detected over the Sinai Peninsula when the flight went down a sign of an explosion aboard the plane? And if that was the case, why haven't investigators found signs of an explosive impact on the crash victims' bodies, as Russian state media reports? Could the plane's wreckage show that a past repair went awry?

..............//snip

A U.S. military satellite detected a midair heat flash from the Russian airliner before the plane crashed Saturday, a U.S. official told CNN.

Intelligence analysis has ruled out that the Russian commercial airplane was struck by a missile, but the new information suggests that there was a catastrophic in-flight event -- including possibly a bomb, though experts are considering other explanations, according to U.S. officials.

Analysts say heat flashes could be tied to a range of possibilities, including a bomb blast, a malfunctioning engine exploding or a structural problem causing a fire on the plane.

[spanone]

43. where's the link? no breaking news anywhere that says 'definitely'

google google google

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Voila

Report: Black boxes show bomb brought down Russian jet


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/06/middleeast/russian-plane-crash-egypt-sinai/index.html

[spanone]

53. thank you

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. You're welcome

If this was a court of law we would be approaching "the clear and convincing evidence stage" before getting to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" stage...

They also said we shared intel with the Russians which is unprecedented.

[ananda]

46. And thousands of people are now left stranded ..

.. in Egyptian resorts.

Sheesh, what a mess!

[herding cats]

49. I read in The Telegraph today as many as 70,000 Russians are stranded.

They speculate it could take months to get them all out.

[leftynyc]

69. I saw yesterday that the British

that were flown out could only bring carry on luggage. Anything that needed to be checked had to stay.

[herding cats]

113. While that had to seem bad for them...

Which I can understand. They're lucky their country was able to get them out at all. I couldn't imagine being stuck there at the current moment in time. That has to be a stressful situation for everyone fighting for a spot on a flight out.

[leftynyc]

120. I also read there

are as many as 75,000 Russians who need to get out. If I were British, I would have gladly left the luggage behind. Given I think that Putin is mentally unbalanced and a Russian plane was blown out of the sky, I can't even imagine what he's going to do next.

[Schema Thing]

47. Wait.... did anyone really think it was going to be something *other* than this?

I mean yeah, it could be something else, but a betting person had to bet all their money on an onboard bomb, as soon as a missile was ruled out.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. Some did.

EOM

[Rex]

58. An RPG would not have surprised me.

Bomb would be next on the list.

[EX500rider]

63. They were WAY to high up for a RPG or a shoulder fired missile.

[Rex]

64. Ah, I didn't know many details about the flight.

So I guess it would have to be bomb, missile or malfunction. Given the location, I was guessing missile.

[GGJohn]

107. They were at cruising altitude,

appox. 31,000-33,000 feet.

Most likely a bomb planted on board.
This is going to royally piss the Russians off, and they're not known for finesse when it comes to taking out those that piss them off.
They'll kill 100 innocents just to get one person.
This is going to get real ugly fast.

[LanternWaste]

59. I initially presumed mechanical/structural failure or pilot error.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 had the online communities agog with the same explanations, agents, provocateurs and antagonists.

As I'm neither clever nor a betting man, I default to accident until ruled out.

[uppityperson]

67. I would rather wait for proof than jump to a possible false conclusion.

Sometimes mechanical failure happens, not caused on purpose I mean.

[Schema Thing]

82. Mechanical failure happens, but almost never in an instantaneous fashion like this.

Hence the assumption it isn't mechanical failure.

Plus, Russia fresh into a new war vs jihadist...

[flamingdem]

72. Really, why wouldn't Isis put a bomb on a plane

It seems easy enough if you tip off an employee.. or they are sympathizers and many are.

[L. Coyote]

77. The real question is, "If you bomb someone, shouldn't you expect them to bomb you?"

[flamingdem]

79. Heh, if not dealing with relig fanatics who aspire to virgins, etc.

Rules of the game differ if following a warped Allah script.

[Lee-Lee]

84. My theory is ISIS wants to destabilize Egypt so they can move in taking advantage of the mess

Tourism is a huge part of the economy in Egypt, and the only real source of foreign cash steadily coming in.

The economy there barely survived the drop in tourism during all the political unrest. If they follow up this with a few bombings or shootings at tourist locations the tourism will end, the economy will crash, and chaos will result.

And ISIS can leverage that chaos to move in.

[hifiguy]

85. FWIW, ISIS should be wiped completely from the face of the earth

with extreme prejudice and by any means necessary, and a brutal squeeze should be implemented against its financial backers.

With the US government and military doing absolutely nothing to aid the effort other than winking, then looking in the other direction and whistling.

[smirkymonkey]

97. Hear, hear!

[lonestarnot]

108. Triple hear!

[GGJohn]

109. Can't argue with that. eom.

[closeupready]

112. Well, considering Assad is a Russian puppet figure,

and considering 1) the price of oil; and 2) the PR disaster that is Putin's foray into the Ukraine, it's impossible for me to consider ISIL being "wiped completely from the face of the earth"/glass-covered parking lot/any-other-childish-euphemism you'd like to use ... as being an option at the moment, even in the face of this terrorist act.

But you know, internet warriors are gonna wage internet warfare, lol.

[hifiguy]

117. My primary point is that the US

should stay the hell out of this. For 50-plus years the only thing American involvement has done in such situations is make everything much, MUCH worse. Let someone else deal with it while cutting a back room deal with whomever wants to rid the world of these insane fucks. Yes, even Pooty-Poot. Let the Russians put their boots on the ground and take the hit if they think it's worth it.

Also, fuck the KSA with an iron stick. They are ultimately responsible for all Sunni lunatics and stand as the worst nation on earth. And I am not forgetting about North Korea.

[davidn3600]

118. We are never going to stay out of it

We are heavily invested in the mid-east...not just militarily, but politically and economically.

The United States economy runs on oil. Until we become energy self-reliant, we will be involved in mid-east affairs.

[hifiguy]

119. Then we are doomed to both

madness and failure. Which is how empires always fall.

Nothing is ever learned from history. We are a monumentally dumb species that deserves to die out.

[CJCRANE]

124. The tail is now wagging the dog.

We are essentially spreading religious fundamentalism all over the Middle East and beyond.

[WinkyDink]

116. NOW can we work with other Western nations and obliterate ISIS(L)? Wipe this scourge off the Earth!