There's a Petition to Stop Phil Collins From Coming Out of Retirement

[NCTraveler]

"Phil Collins must be stopped," reads a petition to the United Nations, asking the government to deter Phil Collins from having a comeback after four years of retirement. It goes on, "Phil Collins has announced he is 'no longer in retirement.' There is far too much suffering in the world as it is. This must be stopped."

As of Sunday afternoon, the petition only needs 860 more signatures to reach its 5,000-signature goal, though it remains to be seen if the UN will actually step in and stop Collins from recording a new album. The petition was created by someone named Brian Pee, who really, really dislikes Phil Collins and clearly does not want another day for you and me, or Mike Tyson, in paradise.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/theres-a-petition-to-stop-phil-collins-from-coming-out-of-retirement/ar-CC6WGj?li=BBgzzfc

[Kalidurga]

1. I hope Phil goes ahead and makes a new album.

He can do a song about what happens when Conservatives are anywhere near that red button.

[FLPanhandle]

2. Great publicity for Phil

Probably increase his album sales.

[monmouth4]

3. I love Phil and if he makes an album called "Ring Around The Rosey" I'll be sure to buy it. Go Phil

[leftofcool]

4. I predict that the new Phil Collins album will be in the top 10

As soon as they get 5000 signatures and turn in the petition.

[NCTraveler]

5. This is really just great free advertisement. nt.

[bravenak]

51. Me too. I like him. Might go get me a single right now for my ipad.

[OnyxCollie]

6. I lived through the 80's.

I'll sign.

[Nitram]

7. Yeah, me too.

In addition to his own soporific recordings, he is responsible for the worst production of any Eric Clapton album in existence. Right up there with the guy who ruined the Dooby Brothers, Michael McDonald.

[ProfessorGAC]

97. Well, We Certainly Agree on McDonald

That torturous singing style. So over emotive and drippy. And his songwriting is terrible.

We don't agree on the Clapton album. Big Eric fan for a long time (late 60's to present) and i like that album.

[seaglass]

102. How can you not love this?

[Nitram]

117. How can I not love it? Let me count the ways.

[ryan_cats]

25. Where

Where do I place my X? I blame Peter Gabriel, since his leaving brought about the crimes against humanity known as Phil Collins as a vocalist and, heaven help us, solo act and song writer.

[Jesus Malverde]

66. I lived through the 80s dominated by 60s era artists.

So played out.

[Nitram]

98. Just more proof of the impoverished lack of talent in 80s bands.

People preferred to listen to aging 60s artists.

[Orrex]

8. I will sign this petition in blood ten times over if it will keep him retired

You would be hard-pressed to name a more boring performer in the history of rock.
No good can come of his return to the airwaves.

[Tom_Foolery]

9. I'll listen to anything Phil Collins wants to release...

I've always enjoyed his music. Thanks, Phil!!

[GreatGazoo]

10. What Phil Collins did to Motown songs was a crime against music.

If Phil Collins isn't stopped we may witness more such crimes. Imagine if Phil Collins, Yoko Ono and John Tesh release a medley of Genesis songs, get Geddy Lee to do the vocals, etc. Won't someone THINK OF THE CHILDREN !?

[Liberal_in_LA]

59. Lol

[Nitram]

118. The horror!

[CBGLuthier]

11. Great drummer, decent singer, good songwriter. Some folks don't know wtf they are talking about.

[Orrex]

13. You know we're talking about Phil Collins, right?

You threw me with that "decent singer, good songwriter" comment.

[CBGLuthier]

14. Can you do better?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

15. GREAT song!

One of my favorite albums (Genesis self titled). I don't understand the Phil Collins hate. My dad was a huge PC/Genesis fan, so I grew up listening to both. No Jacket Required and Invisible Touch were the soundtrack of my youth (on the weekends when I went to visit my dad).

[CBGLuthier]

18. I will admit to not being a fan of Sussudio but to make Mr. Collins out to be some kind of

evil incompetent no talent is just bullshit from people who would not know good music if it bit them on the ass.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

19. As a songwriter, myself...

He's been an inspiration. I used to have a couple singles from "...But Seriously", and the B-side was always a "demo" version of the song. Usually, it was the complete instrumental production with Phil singing gibberish over top. That was how he wrote. Get the song together, sing a melody made of gibberish, then write the words to fit the melody. It's how I've written songs with my last 3 bands over the past 5 years. It's worked out quite well.

[CBGLuthier]

21. I have to agree with a sentiment I read earlier today about this nonsense

Phil Collin's one failing is he never recorded a really, really great album. Instead he did a lot of fairly good ones, especially the deep cuts.

[Orrex]

35. I once heard him described...

as the most consistently "just slightly worse than average musician in the business."

This was a comment by a musician friend, rather than from some authoritative source, but it resonated nicely with my overall sense of Collins.

[mattclearing]

86. I had one of those singles.

It was for Do You Remember, if memory serves. I remember being disappointed that the demo of I Wish It Would Rain Down wasn't the one with Eric Clapton. I was very young then, and in retrospect, the demo b-sides is really cool. And it was a solid demo, pretty much exactly the same only without Clapton and less polished.

[Nitram]

119. Dr H, I don't want to hurt your feelings.

But if Collins is your inspiration, I think I'll take a pass on your music.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

123. Actually, my music is mostly upbeat

Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2015, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

punk and 90s alt-rock influenced.

However, my method to songwriting is the same as Phil's (write the music, record the music, write the vocal melody, record nonsensical words to the melody, write lyrics that fit said melody). Our style of music has nothing in common, however.

My former band and current bands (nothing like Phil Collins):
http://reverbnation.com/MadMartigan321
http://reverbnation.com/TheContendersBand

[Nitram]

128. Thanks, I'll take a listen.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

135. Let me know what you think...

I won't be insulted if you don't like it.

[Nitram]

136. Fun music, both groups.

I like the chord progression in Wasted Years.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

137. Thanks!

That was one of the first tunes I wrote with Mad Martigan. Lots of major and minor 3rds. Fun times!

[ryan_cats]

34. Su

Su
  Su
   Sudafed.

I guess Phil being in the back pockets of the pharmaceutical industry is OK, not to mention the methamphetamine industry.

[Orrex]

20. It was also three decades ago, and it was hardly a solo Collins effort

For a while, Sussudio was the worst thing anyone had ever heard, and then Invisible Touch was belched forth onto the airwaves. Bad enough that it exists at all, but that infinitely chanted refrain is singlehandedly responsible for global warming, ozone depletion, and the vast expanse of waste plastic clogging the Pacific.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. No, the cause for all that was, yup you guessed it...

Frank Stalone

[Orrex]

23. Well, all right. I'll give you that one.

Of course, he's pretty much the nuclear option. I don't know how you sleep at night.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

24. With "Face Value" on repeat.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Nuclear, eh?

[ryan_cats]

46. Awesome pic

That is an awesome pic. I'm sure he thinks he's tough by having a battle-ax as an earring but I will always think he's sporting an upside down crucifix. The henna tats are a nice touch.

[Logical]

31. LOL, yes, number 1 in US, 10 in Canada and 13 in UK, what a failure! Nt

[Orrex]

33. I didn't say they were failures; I said they were awful. And I'm right.

Lest we forget, Rick Astley scored "a worldwide number-one hit" with the famously terrible Never Gonna Give You Up. Let's not make the sillly mistake of equating marketability with quality.

Collins is unbearable, and we should show sufficient compassion not to blame his victims.

[Nitram]

120. Making a hit record doesn't prove that you are a great musician.

I'll be honest and say I just didn't like his music. But everybody has different taste in music. To each his own.

[madinmaryland]

72. Heh! And everyone is all over my ass when I comment about a truly shitty band from Canada...

being far shittier than Phil Collins!!



Oh wait, that was Dr. Strange.

[Orrex]

16. That's a silly rebuttal.

I won't be on the general ballot, but I can tell you that Trump would be lousy president. I also can't set a broken leg, but if I see a that a doctor has set the leg at a 90° angle, I feel comfortable saying that he did a terrible job.

It is preposterous to pretend that criticism can only come from someone who is "better" in the chosen field than the person being criticized. It is a weak preemptive tactic to invalidate criticism.

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. I'd really love to see a Genesis reunion.

[Jesus Malverde]

67. ...

[postatomic]

92. I have a bootleg album of a Genesis "reunion"

Peter Gabriel came back for one last time. I've seen the original Genesis and the new Genesis. All are still in my memory as some of the best concerts I've been to. If you aren't aware, Steve Hackett did a few 'Genesis Revisited' Albums. Pretty damn good though some 'purists' don't like them because Hackett does most of the singing.

I'll always like Phil Collins. I think he pissed a lot of people off because they expected him to compose/perform a certain way and he just did what he wanted to do.

All music is 100% subjective. Personal taste and all.

Now, I would sign a petition against miss "auto-tune on steroids" Grande.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

29. Please demonstrate what you are saying. All this anti-Phil Collins BS sounds like music snobbery. nt

[Orrex]

32. Oh, please--you're flailing.

When your "can you do better?" plea was revealed for the hollow tactic that it is, you switched gears with empty accusations of music snobbery. You seek to turn what is frankly a light-hearted discussion of differing musical tastes into a screed on the nature of aesthetics. Go on with your bad self.

Phil Collins should be stricken from the canon simply for his involvement in the unbearably shrill I Can't Dance. Illegal Alien is a painful embarrassment every time it airs. Invisible Touch is a horror of repetition. Sussudio is vile showcase of his grating, raspy "vocal" style. You Can't Hurry Love is as foul a cover as has ever been recorded (second perhaps to David Bowie's take on Alabama Song). Jesus He Knows Me is execrable, heavy-handed and obvious.

Easy Lover isn't especially terrible, but it's buoyed by Philip Bailey's heavy lifting. The Tarzan soundtrack is an abomination. If I were forced to endure one musical venture in which Collins has involved himself, I suppose I'd go with either In The Air Tonight or Separate Lives. I'd rather hit myself with a mallet, of course, but if I had to pick a least unbearable song, it would be one of those two.

I could go on and on, but let me instead sum up by saying that I am regrettably familiar with decades of Collins' work, and my dislike of him is not some off-hand rejection borne of music snobbery.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

36. So, music snobbery then...

Also, you think you're responding to somebody else because your first paragraph is out of context with my participation in this thread.

Back to your explanation, fine, you just don't like his stuff. Some people do and Collins got rich with it. Whatever. You don't listen to it so, there's that. The reason I brought up snobbery is because some people give pop music a hard time, even when they don't have to listen to it.

[Orrex]

39. Why don't you tell us all why it's snobbery, then?

I don't know why you feel that it's important to assign that label, but if it helps you endure Collins' terrible music, then so be it. Perhaps you can explain specifically why I'm motivated by snobbery, rather than by a strong and well-founded dislike of Collins' "music?"

you just don't like his stuff. Some people do and Collins got rich with it.

That's another silly rebuttal. Rush Limbaugh has sold a million$ worth of his lousy books; Thomas Kinkade made a fortune off of terrible, sappy paintings. Calling these out as terrible is not snobbery, and their success is absolutely no measure of their quality, except perhaps in a weird Ayn Rand fantasy land.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

40. If you don't like Collins' music, why do you listen to it? nt

[Orrex]

42. Because for 15 years straight it played on constantly on every station

And he's a staple on every "80s flashback" weekend, perhaps in an effort to prove that the 80s were a dark time best forgotten.

But I certainly don't--and certainly woudn't--listen to it by choice.


And I notice that you didn't explain why my dislike of Collins is driven by "music snobbery." Is that because you've realized the emptiness of that insult?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

44. No, you have your opinion of Collins' music. And my opinion is it's music snobbery. Are you a...

...professional musician?

Also, why do you listen to the radio, anyway?

[Orrex]

49. You've demanded that I justify my opinon; I ask that you clarify yours.

Don't simply parrot your desperate insistence that it's "music snobbery." Explain why it's music snobbery. Otherwise, admit that you can't.

For that matter, must all dislike of music be snobbery? Is it not possible to dislike something because you find it terrible?

Are you a professional musician?

I am not, but of course that's a silly and irrelevant question. Do you believe that only professional musicians can criticize Collins' terrible music? That's simply a preposterous repetition of your preposterous initial rebuttal.

Also, why do you listen to the radio, anyway?

How is that relevant? How is it any of your business?

Since I am more forthcoming and honest with information than you are, I will reveal that, in the 80s and 90s, I worked for businesses that piped in garbage music against my will, and Phil Collins loomed large in the shit parade. By his terrible, terrible works I shall know him.


Why do you listen to his crappy music, by the way? Certainly not voluntarily? Wait a minute... Are you Phil Collins?

That just might explain it.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

50. Yes, you got me. I'm Phil Collins.

You sure are defensive about my "music snobbery" aside.

Here's what you've done with my "music snobbery" comment: "You seek to turn what is frankly a light-hearted discussion of differing musical tastes into a screed on the nature of aesthetics. Go on with your bad self."

[Orrex]

52. Well, that might explain a few things.

You sure are defensive about my "music snobbery" aside.

No, that's another attempt at deflection. Calling someone defensive is a weak attempt to shift the discussion from "why is Phil Collins so crappy?" to "is Orrex defensive?"

Asking for clarification is not defensiveness. Since I am not defensive, I have no reason to address that accusation.

For that matter, you still haven't answered any of my questions. Why on earth should I answer any of yours?

[Nitram]

122. Chisolm, that's a cheap trick.

Accusing someone of musical snobbery because they don't like a musician that you do, and then calling them defensive for asking you to explain why it is musical snobbery to feel nauseous at the sound of Phil Collins coming on the radio. sounding a bit trollish today, Mr. Trail.

[Orrex]

150. Better Cheap Trick than Phil Collins

[Nitram]

152. I'll totally agree with you there!

Saw them at the live at the Budokan while I was living in Tokyo.

[MADem]

131. Change the channel--or develop your own playlist so you don't have to be "infected" then!

Good grief, I don't love every song that comes over the radio, but so what?

[Orrex]

134. When the radio is mine to change, I change it

In most workplaces, stores, and offices, I don't have that option.

[MADem]

156. Earbuds!

Obviously, you are the minority---stores don't play muzak that drives the majority of their customers away. The 'easy listening' format does appeal to most people who don't want to think too hard.

[Nitram]

153. Leave the restaurant in the middle of the meal?

Push the emergency button in the elevator? Leave the department store before you've checked out? I lived in a very large city in the 80s, and Collins ambushed me everywhere I went.

[MADem]

155. Pick restaurants that don't play piped-in muzak. Shop online!

Wear earbuds in the elevator, or take the stairs--get a bit of cardio in!

Phil is not the end of civilization--he's positively eloquent compared to some of the fare offered today.

There's a lid for every pot. If some people find PC to their liking, I'm not going to deny them the pleasure...

[Orrex]

158. Phil Collins is not the end of civilization; he is merely proof of its end.

And I refuse to be subjugated by PC groupthink!!!!!1!

[Nitram]

159. That' right, let Phil Collins rule my life! Make all my culinary and shopping decisions for me!

Thank God he has been relegated to the trash bin of musical history and our ears and esthetic values are no longer assaulted by him on a daily basis!

[Blue_Tires]

154. I hear Orrex is an easy lover...

[MADem]

157. He's got a hold on you, believe it!

[Nitram]

121. If it's music snobbery, so be it.

[LanternWaste]

37. Far too many people get their opinions from cartoons

Far too many people get their opinions from cartoons, believing that to be clever and trendy... hence the second part of your statement...

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Exactly.

They're virtue signaling one another about how independent yet trendy they are.

[adigal]

113. I love Phil Collins and I saw Genesis in Syracuse around 1982

One of the best concerts I've seen. And I saw Pink Floyd's Animal concert with the big pigs floating around and stuff!! LOL!!!

[Stellar]

12. I love Phil Collins.

When I heard this on the news this morning, I thought it was a joke. wth.

[geek tragedy]

17. Can we get Genesis Phil Collins instead of Lion King Phil Collins? nt

[Aristus]

27. I think 'Tarzan' was the film Collins scored.

'The Lion King' was Elton John's movie music.

[geek tragedy]

28. you are correct, so, Genesis Phil Collins instead of Broadway musical Phil Collins.

Kind of like those Rob Lowe ads.

[saturnsring]

26. great more garbage. who cant get enough of i cant dance. ugh \, where do i sign

[2naSalit]

30. That's just mean. nt

[Shandris]

41. ...I-I like Phil Collins...

Y'all are mean!

[SidDithers]

43. Good. I don't mind...

No, I-I-I, I don't mi-ind...

Sid

[whatchamacallit]

45. Not a huge fan, but this kind of stuff blows

tongue in cheek or not.

[NCTraveler]

47. Collins would be the first to tell you that free advertising never "blows". nt.

[hifiguy]

48. He was a marvelous drummer in Genesis and his side band of the era,

the excellent fusion group Brand X. Liked him plenty on "A Trick of the Tail" and "Wind And Wuthering", the first two post-Gabriel Genesis LPs. Saw Genesis with Bill Bruford on drums and Phil as front man back in 1976 or 1977. Loved him and the band.

Then Steve Hackett left the band and Collins, Banks and Rutherford decided they'd rather be millionaires and make crappy music than be moderately well-off making wonderful music.

Has any band that once was so good ever fallen further?

And regarding Collins' solo career, we shall not speak of this again.

[ms liberty]

78. Yes, when Hackett left it was pretty much over for Genesis

I love Trick if the Tail. I do enjoy Duke, but it is the only post Gabriel and Hackett that I like at all. I liked Face Value, except for In the Air Tonight which got played to death, ugh. It's a decent "pop" album, and it's okay for what it is. I love the Hackett/Gabriel Genesis; classic prog rock.

[SheilaT]

53. So if he comes out of retirement and cuts a new album,

are people going to be forced to listen to him? Will large trucks circle the block broadcasting his new album continuously?

[NCTraveler]

54. That's the word around the block. nt.

[SheilaT]

55. Ohhhkay.

I look forward to that day.

[Solly Mack]

57. Now that's funny.

[Blue_In_AK]

58. Hold on...

I remember, how could I ever forget.

[BlueStater]

60. "Land of Confusion" is one of my favorite songs of all time.

I even had some lyrics from it in my signature for a time.

So, yeah, I won't be signing this.

[ryan_cats]

73. Great

Great song when Disturbed sings it.

I'm still waiting for his generation, in his gravely words, to "put it right."
Or was he making promises that he knew, he'd never keep?

[BlueStater]

75. Wow. You're so cool. You hate Phil Collins.

I wasn't aware that someone has you tied to a chair and forces you to listen to his music. I'm so sorry.

[ryan_cats]

77. Well

Well, it sounds like you know my dominatrix. It's hard to say the safe word with a ball gag applied.

[morningfog]

132. I am forced to listen to it all the time. In stores, waiting rooms, other people's radios.

Enough is enough!

[BlueStater]

140. You guys sound so unbearably whiny. It's pathetic.

I hear songs I don't like at restaurants and stores too but, unlike the Collins detractors in this thread apparently, my brain is capable of ignoring them. Suffice to say, I'm not the least bit sympathetic that the three minutes you have to hear a Phil Collins song in the background at Outback Steakhouse or whatever is apparently such an unpleasant experience for you that you're willing to sign a really goddamn stupid petition to keep him from making any more music. That is beyond ridiculous.

[morningfog]

141. What is whiny is Phil Collins voice. Ugh. It's insufferable.

And three minutes!!?!?!? WOuld that that is all the Phil Collins I have to hear. There should be a moratorium on eveything he has ever produced.

[BlueStater]

143. Alright, I'm done with this incredibly stupid thread.

I don't give a shit that you don't like Phil Collins. Hate him as much as you want. And people who do enjoy him, like myself, will continue to do so regardless of whatever his critic think.

[morningfog]

148. I don't believe anyone enjoys him, they just think it is cool to go against the grain.

[backscatter712]

138. The video is epic!

I'd think DUers would like that song...

[backscatter712]

139. But Jesus He Knows Me!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xev3f_genesis-jesus-he-knows-me_news

(sorry, the video's not available on Youtube, so I can't embed...)

[KittyWampus]

61. I'd successfully blocked out Phil Collins and his monotonous, depressive work

up until today.

I could even ignore the few times his 'stuff' would come on a radio when I'm out and about.

Now, he's in my consciousness again.

THANKS, NCTraveler. I owe you one….

[Manifestor_of_Light]

62. Hey, music snobs! I LIKE HIM.

I have played classical piano since I was five years old. I took up the violin at age ten and took violin lessons and played in high school, college and community orchestras for fifteen years. I had season tickets to the big city symphony in the seventh and eighth grade.

I've seen Arthur Rubinstein and Jacqueline duPre LIVE in concert. (If you don't know who they are, look them up on YouTube). I had season tickets to the opera in high school.

Music, especially classical, but also rock and jazz have obsessed me my whole life.

I listened to pop music in the sixties, seventies and eighties.

I recently bought a copy of "Serious Hits...Live!" and listen to it in the car.

If you know who my avatar is, besides being a famous astrophysicist, you get extra points. He's my favorite guitar god.

I have always liked Phil Collins. Yeah, he's commercial. So what? He's good at what he does. I know nothing about drumming.

Take your outrage somewhere else and channel it into something constructive. Or take up knitting. I really don't care.

[ryan_cats]

74. Excellent defense

Excellent defense.

I love Brian May and his work in the Sex Pistols.

Would you write such a passionate rant if someone slighted Justin Bieber?

People don't like Phil not because he's popular but because he's insipid.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

79. So you are the judge of what's "insipid"?

I see.

Would you call a three chord song "insipid" just because it had three chords? A very large number of pop songs have been written with only three chords, I-IV-V to be technical about it. It forms the basis for what is called a boogie beat as well.

Mozart and Schubert wrote classic melodies with three chords and they are still performed every day around the world. And those tunes are not considered insipid merely because they have simple chord structures.

Just because someone makes a song I don't particularly like means I have to get mad about it. There are a lot of bands and genres I can't stand musically, but I don't tell people they shouldn't listen to them.

I don't give a damn whether or not you like Justin Bieber or anyone else. It doesn't affect my life. Kind of like professional sports. I don't give a rat's ass about sports of any kind, college or professional.

[ryan_cats]

87. I

I do consider myself judge, jury and executioner when it comes to insipid-nous.

I would support casting Phil Collins as Wicked Uncle Ernie if Tommy is ever remade.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

88. Brian May and the Sex Pistols is your idea of a joke?

Yeah, I know how far apart they are musically.

I read "And I Don't Want To Live This Life" which is a memoir by Nancy Spungen's mother written after Sid Vicious murdered her while they were both addicted to heroin. He died from a heroin overdose before he was tried for her murder. And I've seen the movie "Sid and Nancy". They both come off as pretty horrible people.

As far as human beings or musicians, I consider Brian May and the Sex Pistols to be about as far apart musically and morally as it would be possible for different people walking the same earth at the same time.

Sick.

I don't know how you measure "insipid".

Yes, I saw Tommy in the theaters when it came out. I remember Keith Moon. Cousin Kevin wasn't too nice either.

I guess now you want to debate me on the merits of Tommy and Quadrophenia.

[ryan_cats]

89. I

I like both Sex Pistols and Queen. As far as being morally apart, you might want to figure out where Malcolm Mclaren fits in.

If you had seen a recent picture of Phil, it is not hard to imagine him fiddling about.

I like Quadrophenia and Tommy although both are different and still have the original albums I bought when new although they are a bit scratchy.

[Nitram]

125. Mr Light, short answer: Phil Collins.

It's not how many chords you use. I love some songs in one chord. Love the blues. Just can't stand P. Collins. I get an involuntary negative visceral reaction when he comes on the radio. So I spend more time with the iPod and 8,000 songs from every genre imaginable. But no Phil Collins.

[Dorian Gray]

85. Who's

the music snob?

[MrScorpio]

109. Damn skippy!

[0rganism]

63. i fully support him if he's gonna go back to making mid-70's Genesis albums

otherwise, i will simply continue to avoid and ignore everything he does. hardly petition-worthy.

[LuvNewcastle]

64. Had the petition been serious,

I would have signed it. He is just another small part of what made the 1980s the decade from hell.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Not as long as Hall and Oates are still allowed to wander the streets freely.

Priorities, people

[lumberjack_jeff]

70. Heh. +1 n/t

[Straw Man]

107. Haters gonna hate.

[Bottoms_Up]

68. literally LOL. Especially about the part

where the petition supporting his comeback only had 1/3 the signatures.

[Rex]

71. That is just stupid, who cares really?

5000 people have nothing better to do than hate on Phil Collins. Sad.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

80. I agree.

See my reply #79. They should take up knitting or get a life or find something else to worry about.

[Agnosticsherbet]

76. Art must not be stopped! Sing, Phill, Sing.

Last edited Tue Nov 10, 2015, 04:08 AM - Edit history (1)

[Manifestor_of_Light]

81. A quote from a famous composer.

"Nobody ever erected a statue to a critic." --Jean Sibelius, Finnish composer.

Rick Wakeman on critics, while interviewing Brian May: "Critics get all up in their own backsides."

Brian May's reply: "And their mates', too."

Then they both agreed the public speaks with their money about what they like.

It's in a youtube video.

[Agnosticsherbet]

83. Art is from the soul of the artist.

Criticism comes from the ass.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

91. As I just quoted a couple of rock 'n' roll gods.

The British can be so polite, by saying "critics are all up in their own backsides" instead of "he has his head up his arse".

[Nitram]

126. No, Agnostic, some music comes from the ass and some critics write from the soul.

Stupid generalization.

[cemaphonic]

82. This thread is hilarious

I agree that it was more Hackett leaving that ruined Genesis, than Collins taking over the vocals. And let's not forget that Peter Gabriel turned into an 80s mainstream hitmaker too.

He can come out of retirement as long as he promises to stay away from Motown covers this time.

[Archae]

84. I still say the REAL musical abomination is still wandering the streets...

Steve Miller Band.

[ryan_cats]

94. Somebody

Somebody get me a cheeseburger!

Thanks for that memory, I think I'd rather listen to Phil.

[Orrex]

90. I heard "Land of Confusion" again yesterday

It was every bit as awful as I'd remembered it to be.

[BlueStater]

93. Congrats on wasting three minutes of your life listening to a song you know you don't like. n/t

[Orrex]

95. You apparently live in an interesting world...

A world in which you only hear music voluntarily, rather than at a store or restaurant, for instance.
A magical world in which Phil Collins does not suck.

[Nitram]

127. Exactly Orrex.

You never know when Phil is going to ambush your ears in public.

[Straw Man]

96. People who claim a certain style or artist "sucks" ...

... suck.

Here's some musicians playing some music. You might not like it, but it doesn't suck.

[Orrex]

99. Equally, then, no music is "good"

Well played.

[Straw Man]

100. Only if ...

Equally, then, no music is "good"

Well played.

... "good" means "pleasing to me."

[Orrex]

101. What else might it mean, in this context?

After you've answered that, then tell us what else "this music sucks" might mean, in this context. And then explain why you feel that one label for assigning value is acceptable and valid if the other is not.


Thanks!

[Straw Man]

103. OK.

In this context, "This music sucks" means "This music is not pleasing to me." However, most people who make such postings on the Internet are doing so in order to castigate people who like that music. What they fail to realize is that their postings are tantamount to saying "You are an idiot because your taste is not the same as mine." This is, of course, an infantile and erroneous observation.

[Orrex]

105. I don't believe that anyone here made any claims about the listeners.

Find me the post that declare's Collins' fans to be idiots, and I will happily attack the idiot making that claim. No one here is responsible for other people's claims, and certainly not for other people's claims made outside of DU.

However, people have indeed voiced a comically hyperbolic dislike of Collins' music, alternately describing it as insipid, grating, terrible and vile. These descriptions are, incidentally, consistent with objective reality.


For the record, that last statement is also comic hyperbole.

[Straw Man]

106. Got it.

Find me the post that declare's Collins' fans to be idiots, and I will happily attack the idiot making that claim.

It is certainly implied when someone claims that a particular song/artist/genre "sucks." If you like music that "sucks," there must be something wrong with you: that's the logic. The accusation is not made explicitly here, but is certainly observable in a large portion of the comments on any YouTube music video.

[Orrex]

110. The only name-calling here is by those calling other people "music snobs"

It is certainly implied when someone claims that a particular song/artist/genre "sucks." If you like music that "sucks," there must be something wrong with you: that's the logic.

That's your inference, and it's tempting to over-analyze the person so quick to perceive insult. If, as you note, "this sucks" is a declaration of one's opinion, then someone who doesn't think that "this sucks" is expressing a different opinion. It is not a reflection of either person's character.

The accusation is not made explicitly here, but is certainly observable in a large portion of the comments on any YouTube music video.

Although certainly true, that is irrelevant here. No one on DU is responsible for comments on YouTube other than their own.

[Straw Man]

111. Did I call anyone a "music snob"?

No. I did not. Irrelevant.

If, as you note, "this sucks" is a declaration of one's opinion, then someone who doesn't think that "this sucks" is expressing a different opinion. It is not a reflection of either person's character.

Nope. Fundamental error: Saying "this sucks" is an assertion of an objective truth about the music. Saying "I don't like this" is a declaration of one's opinion. The former is inherently offensive to people who like the music in question, since it implies that they fail to understand the objective fact of the "suckage." The latter offends no one, since it recognizes that there are differences of opinion.

In other words, to say "this music sucks" is to attempt to impose one's own subjective opinions on another. People who say it are mistaking their own tastes and preferences for objective facts. I'd say that the same is true for saying "this music is great," but that is generally less offensive because people tend to be less emotionally invested in what they don't like than they are in what they like.

[Orrex]

112. Well, now you're just making stuff up.

Did I call anyone a "music snob"?

No. I did not. Irrelevant.

Did I say that you called anyone a "music snob?" No, I did not.

However, since you're complaining about the other people whom you infer to have insulted Collins' fans, it is reasonable to call out the actual insults hurled by those fans (i.e., calling other people "music snobs&quot . Whether or not the insults came from you is not important, since we weren't only discussing you.

Just as it is interesting that you're so quick to infer insult, it's interesting that you imagine that the discussion must only (or chiefly) be about you. Hmm...

Saying "this sucks" is an assertion of an objective truth about the music.

That's simply false, and it's intellectually dishonest of you to assert it as true. Even when someone asserts, for instance, that Collins' music is so awful that it's killing the Great Barrier Reef, this is clearly an expression of the person's opinion, embellished with hyperbolic exaggeration.

Also, if you pretend that a statement about Collins' terrible music "is an assertion of objective truth," then you must accept that calling someone a "music snob" is a statement of "objective fact" as well. Why do you tolerate this latter declaration while condemning the perceived insult of the former?

Saying "I don't like this" is a declaration of one's opinion.

No, it's a statement of fact. That is, it is a fact that I don't like Phil Collins' music. In contrast, it is my opinion that Collins' music is so bad that it could be used to break prisoners for whom waterboarding is too gentle. See the difference? It is not even necessary for one to state "in my opinion" explicitly, because it's unlikely that they would expect anyone to mistake their opinion for alleged fact, even if the opinion is strongly held.

The former is inherently offensive to people who like the music in question,

No, nothing is inherently offensive to anyone. Offensiveness is subjective and inferential, and it may or may not be justified, but it is not inherent.

since it implies that they fail to understand the objective fact of the "suckage."

That may be your inference, but that's on you.

The latter offends no one, since it recognizes that there are differences of opinion.

Unless your opinion is so privileged that it's necessarily entitled to protection from exposure to other opinions, you'll need to accept that other opinions may be presented in a way that displeases you. This doesn't make those opinions "inherently offensive," nor does it magically turn those opinions into presumptions of "objective truth."


To sum up: you dismiss an explicit insult posted repeatedly by Collins' fans, you object to purported insults posted outside of DU by non-DU-members, and you attribute insults to people who didn't actually post those insults.

Interesting indeed.

[Straw Man]

114. Oh, puh-leeze ...

Just as it is interesting that you're so quick to infer insult, it's interesting that you imagine that the discussion must only (or chiefly) be about you. Hmm...

Despite your desperate attempts to make this all personal, no thanks -- I don't wish to play that way. I'm merely discussing why people get so exercised about this.

Also, if you pretend that a statement about Collins' terrible music "is an assertion of objective truth," then you must accept that calling someone a "music snob" is a statement of "objective fact" as well. Why do you tolerate this latter declaration while condemning the perceived insult of the former?

Fair enough, but who said I tolerate it? Now who's "making stuff up"?

Saying "this sucks" is an assertion of an objective truth about the music.

That's simply false, and it's intellectually dishonest of you to assert it as true.

Wrong. "This sucks" posits a quality (or lack thereof) inherent in the object itself. If you don't understand the difference between that and "I don't like this," then you don't understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity.

Saying "I don't like this" is a declaration of one's opinion.

No, it's a statement of fact. That is, it is a fact that I don't like Phil Collins' music.

It's a statement of fact about you -- not about the music. See how that works?

In contrast, it is my opinion that Collins' music is so bad that it could be used to break prisoners for whom waterboarding is too gentle.

Actually, you've got it exactly backwards. You have just made a proposition that can be tested and either verified or disproved. That would make it objectively true or false: nothing subjective about it, once we perform the experiment. On the other hand "this music sucks" cannot be objectively confirmed or denied: it is opinion masquerading as fact.

Unless your opinion is so privileged that it's necessarily entitled to protection from exposure to other opinions, you'll need to accept that other opinions may be presented in a way that displeases you. This doesn't make those opinions "inherently offensive," nor does it magically turn those opinions into presumptions of "objective truth."

Again, you fail to understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity. I don't particularly care how you present your opinions, as long as you don't present them as objective facts. If the music does indeed objectively "suck," then people who like it must be guilty of error. That's what objectivity is.

To sum up: you dismiss an explicit insult posted repeatedly by Collins' fans, you object to purported insults posted outside of DU by non-DU-members, and you attribute insults to people who didn't actually post those insults.

Interesting indeed.

Nope. Never dismissed any insult. Made a reference to something outside of DU because we are discussing a particular Internet phenomenon that exists within DU as well as outside it. Didn't attribute insults to anyone -- merely pointed out the error of assuming that one's subjective opinions deserve recognition as objective facts.

Any other irrelevant accusations or misattributions you'd care to make?

[Orrex]

115. You're all over the map

One might liken that, in fact, to Collins' Concorde-enabled appearance on both stages for Live Aid, spreading his audio poison all over the map.

who said I tolerate it? Now who's "making stuff up"?

By your words, I shall know you. Since you complain quite pointedly about an imagined insult, yet you say nothing at all about an explicit insult, it is clear that your argument tolerates this explicit insult, regardless of your unexpressed feelings on the matter. If, in fact, you object to those insults as well, then it is up to you to express this; it is not up to me to assume it. Absent evidence that you reject those insults of "music snobbery," you position is identical to tolerating those insults. All the more so because you tolerate not only those insults but also Collins' ear-splitting horror.

"This sucks" posits a quality (or lack thereof) inherent in the object itself.

Nonsense. It is an assessment of Collins' dreadful "music," but it certainly makes no claim about the inherent nature of that awful noise. You fall back repeatedly on notions of "inherence," but these notions are poorly supported, and they provide a weak basis for your argument.

Again, you fail to understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity.

And you keep making that baseless claim. Were I lesser person, I might interpret that as an attempt to insult me. Your definition of "objective" is too broad, and you invoke it too readily, much like your use of "inherent."

Any other irrelevant accusations or misattributions you'd care to make?

Since I've made no "irrelevant accusations or misattributions," this question does not pertain to me.


Please do continue, however. I enjoy making sport of Collins' nightmarish screeching, and you're providing a convenient stage for me.

[Straw Man]

116. Tired of playing silly argument games.

Please do continue, however. I enjoy making sport of Collins' nightmarish screeching, and you're providing a convenient stage for me.

You'll have to find another stage to play on. Enjoy yourself.

[Nitram]

129. Mr. Man, it looked like "silly argument games" was your thing.

I think the point that you give a directly personal insult a pass yet agonize over the "this song sucks" meme is revealing.

[Straw Man]

146. Gave a pass?

I think the point that you give a directly personal insult a pass yet agonize over the "this song sucks" meme is revealing.

Because I didn't call out an insult that was by another poster about another poster, I "gave it a pass"? Puh-leeze. OK, I hereby deplore it. How's that?

Revealing of exactly what? Tell me, Inspector Columbo. Should I be retaining an attorney?

[Nitram]

147. Not an atttorney. A remedial class in rhetoric.

[Straw Man]

149. Do tell.

Not an atttorney. A remedial class in rhetoric.

You mean like a course in the use of emoticons?

[Nitram]

151. You lost me there, dude.

I guess a remedial class in basic English might be more appropriate.

[Straw Man]

160. I'm not surprised.

You lost me there, dude.

I guess a remedial class in basic English might be more appropriate.

Could you point out where I have made any errors in the use of basic English? I look forward to being instructed in the finer points of language -- not to mention rhetoric -- by someone who communicates with little smiley faces.

[Nitram]

162. No errrors in English usage.

Just extremely low reading comprehension in the language.

[Straw Man]

163. OK.

Just extremely low reading comprehension in the language.

Could you point out what I have failed to comprehend? Perhaps then you could rephrase it so that a simple soul like me could understand it.

[morningfog]

142. That sucked.

[Straw Man]

144. So did that.

[DonCoquixote]

104. I hope he does

It is idiots like this that put Genesis out of buisness. I personally hope he not only does, but does a duet with peter grabirel just to piss people off.

[MrScorpio]

108. I'm a huge Phil Collins fan

Bring it on!

[GOLGO 13]

124. I signed the petition. Collins is ee-vil personified.

Classic adult contemporary sure. But, he's too old for rock.

[MADem]

130. Who is Brian to Pee on Phil's ambitions?

[yesphan]

133. Would love it if

He came back to Brand X.

[Romulox]

145. How juvenile. nt

[Monk06]

161. Hey it's Brit Pop the British Leyland of music. It's an industry not an art. Don't lose sleep over

a big fat nothing