People Who Left Islam Are Explaining Why Using the #ExMuslimBecause Hashtag

[FLPanhandle]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/11/20/people-who-left-islam-are-explaining-why-using-the-exmuslimbecause-hashtag/

These people are very brave considering that becoming an apostate is a death sentence in many places. Also good to be reminded that many of the Muslim refugees may not be as Muslim as people think. They just aren't in a place that allows them to identify as anything else.

[still_one]

1. An opportunity for anti-Muslim rants. How special to generalize, and your comment at the end"

"Also good to be reminded that many of the Muslim refugees may not be as Muslim as people think"

I wonder what would happen if that was replaced that with the following statements:


"Also good to be reminded that many of the Jewish refugees may not be as Jewish as people think"

"Also good to be reminded that many of the Christian refugees may not be as Christian as people think"

"Also good to be reminded that many of the African refugees may not be as African as people think"

"Also good to be reminded that many of the __________ refugees may not be as _________ as people think"

[FLPanhandle]

4. As an atheist, all religions are silly to me

Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.

So, yes, swap in any religion into the blanks space and I'm still okay with it.

[still_one]

6. and that is fine, but the statement in the OP signled out Muslims, and that was my point. I suspect

if another religious group was used, it would have created a controversy.

In my view, not the best choice of words, and I tried to explain it with an example in my response to the OP

[MellowDem]

8. You're confusing a belief system...

with ethnicity. That's a pretty big mistake to make.

[still_one]

13. No, that was intentional to present the trouble with generalizations. I did that to put emphasis on

the anti-Muslim nature of comment. While the differences between ethnicity and religion are evident, prejudicial generalization apply to both.

[MellowDem]

16. Islam is a very bigoted...

conservative belief system, so benign against it on DU isn't prejudicial, it's like being against any other belief system that is conservative and bigoted.

I suppose what confuses some people is the privilege of religion, where progressive people continue to identify with bigoted and hateful religions while expecting others not to associate them with the bigoted, hateful belief system they identify with.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

19. Islam is an umbrella term, not a specific belief system.

It is certainly the case that Islam *as interpreted by a significant majority of its practitioners* is a very bigoted and conservative belief system, but it's important to recognise that there are also tens or maybe even hundreds of millions of people who call themselves Muslims and their beliefs Islam, and are neither bigoted nor conservative.

[MellowDem]

25. The dogma and texts of Islam...

are conservative and bigoted, which is something even progressive Muslims cannot change.

[MADem]

76. So's christianity, too, if you practice it on all cylinders.

There are "Jack Muslims" in the world, though. I've talked about this before on this board.

People who turn up for the major holidays, who may take grampa to the masjid on odd occasion, who eat bacon, who like a drink, who don't believe in the multiple wives schtick, or the promises of the afterlife. They might not observe Ramadan, but they don't make it obvious that they don't out of respect for the culture.

There are people who are not observant, slightly observant, reasonably observant, very observant, and fundamentalist full-bore noxiously observant. In the western press, though, we only seem to get a window on the latter types.

Jimmy Carter is not the same as people from the Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church. They're all Christians, though, so they say. No broad brush with them, though...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

65. Bullshit!

There are posts here all the time about people leaving the Catholic Church, Evangelical Christianity, etc. etc due to it's misogyny, homophobia, scandals and general problem with it's teachings.....and all of the responses are overwhelmingly positive. Anyone even attempting the "No True Scotsman" crap is shouted down. Of course, that's because Christianity is treated TOTALLY different than Islam who also has MASSIVELY PROBLEMATIC teachings and deserves the same scorn.

[Humanist_Activist]

68. I doubt it, look at how DU acted with all the Mormons, now ex-Mormons who resigned from their...

Church over the new policy on how to treat children of same sex couples.

Also these examples:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/ExCatholic?src=hash

https://twitter.com/hashtag/exmormon

If you want I can probably find more.

[MellowDem]

7. Islam is a belief system...

not an ethnicity. And some of the punishments required for apostates of Islam in its own texts probably keep many people that don't believe it from identifying as anything other than Muslim.

Islam has a lot of hateful stuff to say in its text and dogma, any person willing to speak out against it from that background is being brave, and many don't have the luxury to do so.

[still_one]

18. See my post 13. It was to put emphasis on prejudice. As far as your comment regarding Islam has a

lot of hateful stuff, so does Christianity.

All you are doing is justifying Islamicphobia.

As a Jew, I know exactly how that rationalization goes

[True Earthling]

84. Am I "Islamicphobic"?

Please define "Islamicphobia".

I know the difference between what a Muslim and Islam is. One refers to people the other to ideology.

I do not believe that all Muslims are the same. I do believe there is variability in the group as to what they believe, what they practice or how faithful they are and some may only call themselves Muslim for fear of death for apostasy.

The ideology scares the shit out of me.

Am I "Islamicphobic"?

[smirkymonkey]

88. +1000

[Oneironaut]

11. Being African isn't a religion.

Religion is a choice. Someone can simply stop being religious.

Islam is oppressive and backwards. Most religions are the same way. It has done serious damage to the Middle East and the world. It is not a force of good in the world. The more people that leave Islam and open their minds, the better.

If I prayed, my only prayer would be that organized religion be obliterated from the earth. I have no problem with people who are religious, but organized religion (especially extremist sects) tends to rot any country that it is common in to the core.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. People say that about Christians all the fucking time ie 'they are Christians but not fundie nut

jobs' or 'they were Christians, but not the Christian right'.

And dig it- for LGBT people these are very important distinctions. Those who are extreme are extreme and some in both of those faiths act out against us, 10 Islamic Nations execute gay people. I say that is wrong, too extreme, far too Islamic. Got a problem with that?

[True Earthling]

82. It's actually an anti-generalization statement.

"Also good to be reminded that many of the Muslim refugees may not be as Muslim as people think"

I interpret it as saying that people would be wrong to believe that all Muslims are the same, that there is variability in the group as to what they believe or how faithful they are and some may only call themselves Muslim for fear of death for apostasy.

There is a generalization in "not be as Muslim as people think" ..which subtly implies that people in general have a negative or stereotypical view of Muslims....the generalization is about people...not Muslims.

[treestar]

2. So we are taking that one man's opinion

as being consistent with the religion?

[MellowDem]

10. Yes, because it is.

Maybe you should read the Koran and hadiths to get a better idea?

That man's opinion isn't uncommon at all.

[still_one]

20. Have you read how the New Testament deals with the "Jewish issue". I know exactly where you are

coming from, because folks threw the same shit at me for being a Jew.

[MellowDem]

22. Not very well...

Christianity continues to inspire horrible acts, which isn't surprising when you read the Bible.

[still_one]

24. Read the book of John sometime

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

—John 8:44

[MellowDem]

26. Skip the OT right?

The God of the Bible condones and even engages in variously: genocide, bigotry, misogyny, slavery, homophobia, infanticide, etc. etc. Which unfortunately overshadows the peaceful stuff.

Especially when a person can be good without all the terrible baggage Christiankty brings to the table.

[still_one]

30. nope, just as bad

[treestar]

39. where in the Koran does it say

this about rape and marriage?

[MellowDem]

47. This one is problematic...

http://quran.com/2/223

And this one....

http://quran.com/4/34

And you don't want to even get into the hadiths...

[treestar]

54. very sexist but they don't say

you can force your wife. In fact, if she misbehaves, you "forsake her in bed." That sounds like you withhold sex from her!

[MellowDem]

63. And then you strike her...

So if Koran states that women are under your control and you may have your way with them in bed and if they disagree with you you may strike them... well it's not really a stretch.

I mean, the fact that the Koran advocates domestic violence and you left that part out makes me think you're being disingenuous.

And read the hadiths, most Muslims follow those as well.

[snooper2]

14. It would be nice if people would educate themselves on what is really taught in various religions

[FLPanhandle]

15. Many people do educate themselves on what is really taught in various religions

That's why we are atheists.

[treestar]

40. Extremists exist in every religion

I don't see how educating oneself can be done by listening to various opinions of different extremists, as I could find Muslims who don't agree. If it is endemic to the religion, it should be in the Koran or some part of Sharia Law.

[snooper2]

43. simple question, do you think one who wants Sharia Law implemented is an extremist?

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

[treestar]

44. So where in Sharia Law does it say

a married woman can be forced to have sex if it's her husband?

[snooper2]

45. we can go there in a minute, first the question- Do you think one wanting Sharia Law is an extremist

[smirkymonkey]

49. Yes, of course.

[treestar]

55. To me it would be

I don't want to live anywhere with Sharia law.

You sound like you are trying to set me up.

I'd like to know if Sharia Law would allow a husband to rape his wife.

At least in theory. I would hazard to assume women in Islamic countries have it way worse than women here when it comes to rape cases.

[snooper2]

91. several hundred million muslims believe in Sharia law and would like it implemented

And yeah, husband can rape his wife and if your son steals a bike his hands can be cut off...

[hifiguy]

89. By definition.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

42. He makes me sick. He just makes up shit, doesn't he?

Oh, my goodness.

paraphrase - the woman who controls her jealousy because of plural wives (because she should be jealous), will get the same reward as the man who controls his fear of jihad.

I would kill myself before I would let any man who believes this shit touch me.

[linuxman]

3. A week ago, DU would have recced the shit out of this.

Reactionary politics being what it is though, Islam is now the most peaceful religion the world has ever seen, and the best thing since sliced bread.

Weird.

[LanternWaste]

9. I'd pretend as much too if reality didn't confirm my biases

I'd pretend as much too if reality didn't confirm or validate my biases. As long as we admit to ourselves (if no one else) that it's merely pretense, lacking any semblance of rational thought. Just human nature to find the contrary where none exists... except in our own irrational thoughts.

Weird, part deux.

[sibelian]

21. Don't know if I'd agree that DU would have recced it.

I think it far more likely that everyone would have jumped up and down screaming "Islamophobia".

I've been trying to argue that Islam is a belief system just like any other and deserving of analysis like any other for ages. I've had to wade through post after post of "blaming all Muslims for x is like...." And I just got completely sick to death of saying "I don't mean MUSLIMS, I mean ISLAM and it's fascination with abusing women and throwing gay men off buildings", to little avail. Obviously I was a bigot. Not really sure how being pissed off with watching men like me being thrown of buildings and being hung because God says so makes me a bigot. Muslims that DON'T throw gay men off buildings and DON'T demand that women shouldn't drive or be treated as sex slaves are fine by me.

I've said it elsewhere on the net, Islam exists in this weird mythological vaccuum in certain political circles where it's beyond analysis because it's a religion. Ahem. The Inquisition was motivated by religion.

There is such a thing as conflating the criticism of an idea with meaningless prejudice, they are not the same thing.

[skypilot]

5. From the video...

#ExMuslimBecause...BACON.


LOL

[smirkymonkey]

12. "#ExMuslimBecause my own mother told me I should be killed because I didn't believe the same things

she did".

There are some pretty powerful posts on that hashtag campaign sight. I would say the people posting there know more about islam thank any of us do.

[flamingdem]

17. I agree - and they are letting us know with this campaign

they it's as bad as we might imagine and that there is hope among the young and those who can think rationally.

[sibelian]

23. It's hearing Muslims talk about Islam that cured me of the idea of "Islamophobia".

Many of them despise some of the ideas it espouses themselves.

"MUSLIMOPHOBIA" I believe in. That's a real thing. But distinguishing between meaningless prejudice and valid opposition to an idea is completely different and much more difficult.

[mwrguy]

28. Let me know when there's an #ExJewishBecause

or even an #exchristianbecause

[Bluenorthwest]

31. People talking about why they are no longer Christian is very common and there are all sorts of

reasons cited, from bigoted hate preachers to pedophile priests to corrupt clergy to plain old common sense.
Escaping Christian Fundamentalism
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/

Lots of personal stories here:
http://recoveringfundamentalists.com/

I could do this all day, including denomination specific materials for many denominations. There are dozens if not hundreds of websites about those who have left every religion.

[Scootaloo]

60. There's an important distinction though.

Here on Du there are very few Muslims or people who "come from" Islam. nah, for the great majority we're either Christians, or people who come from Christianity, living in societies strongly informed by Christianity. We don't really have much "point of connection" with these former Muslims as we would with Christians doing the same.

So when brought here, the object is not to provoke thought or introspection, but to reinforce existing bias.

Remember back, not too long ago, Bill Cosby had some negative things to say about some aspects of blackness in America? Right or wrong, his intended audience was other black people who, whether they agree or disagreed with him, at least knew where he was coming from, that shared point of connection. And then you had the white racists who used Bill Cosby as a "voice of truth<" supposedly supporting their already-present assumptions of inherent black dysfunctions

[Bluenorthwest]

85. But that is not what the other poster said, he said 'tell me when Christians do this' and I did.

Your comments have nothing to do with his, I responded to his request. I did not interject that information in a void.

Like it or not, this is a matter of current religious events, because just this month hundreds of people left the LDS because of that Church's bigoted edict against kids from LGBT families. Here is an editorial about that from the NY Times...
Stung by Edict on Gays, Mormons Leave Church
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/19/opinion/stung-by-edict-on-gays-mormons-leave-church.html?_r=0

And some straight reporting on the story:
Mormon Resignations Put Support for Gays Over Fealty to Faith
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/16/us/mormon-resignations-put-support-for-gays-over-fealty-to-faith.html

So the challenge was: show me Christians leaving their faith. I demonstrated that it is common, and in fact all over the news right now with LDS, which is another minority faith.

What you are arguing, I have no idea.

[lindysalsagal]

80. I'm no longer christian because it's a bunch of 2000y old superstitions

right up there with the Loch Ness Monster, unicorns, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

It's all bullshit politics wrapped in sanctified "godly" doctrine.

I'm hoping this current muslim ugliness opens christian's eyes, too.

BTW-
Having previously been married into a jewish family, being jewish doesn't neccesarily mean anyone believes in god or any particular book: It's more likely just a family heritage feeling, rather than a specific doctrine used to hate others.

I think religion is slipping away this century, and the few remaining "believers" are freaking out to find that the floor beneath them is caving in. So, they're piling it all on heavier, with the "war on christmas" crap.

[ericson00]

56. let me know when Christians and Jews are

blowing themselves up in the cause and name of their religion all across the globe.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

64. Let me know when there are large parts of the world it's not legal to be exJewish or exChristian.

[Humanist_Activist]

69. Found these:

https://twitter.com/hashtag/exmormon

https://twitter.com/hashtag/exchristian

https://twitter.com/hashtag/excatholic

[mwrguy]

71. Thank you

[cilla4progress]

29. Really appreciating this thread...

here's a cliche that, however much of an oversimplification, I think, does apply:

Religion is good for good people, and bad for bad people.

I don't know if the Qu'ran was - as was the Bible - really written as a political text, or who wrote it.

As a raised humanist and current agnostic/pagan/humanist (aspiring Buddhist, although I feel like this is not culturally appropriate, as a North American), this discussion does nail it for me: not to single out Islam as a violent, murderous, hypocritical, genocidal text, but to lump it with the Old and New Testament of the Christian text. I would agree that all are archaic, damaging, counter-productive, and serve primarily to tap into our tribalist tendencies and to divide us. The sooner we move on and realize we are ALL connected, the better off humanity will be.

[FrodosPet]

72. Rec for this reply

"Religion is good for good people, and bad for bad people."

[cwydro]

32. Jury results:

On Fri Nov 20, 2015, 11:49 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

People Who Left Islam Are Explaining Why Using the #ExMuslimBecause Hashtag
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027365049

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is a round about way to bash Muslims. We have to be careful not to fall into the Trump trap. Are we going to advocate for tattoo those who stay with Islam. This doesn't belong here. If you want to bash Muslims, then do it, don't use this as way to say what you want to say. Bigotry of any kind is unacceptable.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Nov 20, 2015, 11:57 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: OP please take a moment, walk away from the computer screen and think about why you posted this... at this point in time... in this country.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You can't hide everything you don't agree with. The poster simply posted a link and I don't see any Muslim bashing.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is not Real Time with Bill Maher, this is DU, and we don't support bigotry against any religious minorities, so enthusiastically voting to hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post should be ok for discussion in my humble opinion. Have at it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Afraid I'm not seeing what the alerter sees. Alerter, just say what you wrote here in a comment—i.e., discuss it like everyone else in the thread is doing.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: While I understand and appreciate the concerns expressed, I do think this should be part of the discussion at DU. I don't think silencing this discussion is appropriate. El Bryanto

[FLPanhandle]

33. A BIG thank you to the jury that voted to Leave It

As for the Hide it voters, why hide the voices of people who were brave enough to leave Islam? Especially on a day where Saudi Arabia sentenced a poet to death for being an atheist.

[cwydro]

34. You're welcome.

My thoughts exactly.

[eissa]

46. Seriously, enough of the censorship

We wouldn't blink an eye if this involved any other religion, but Muslims speaking out about their own religion is considered off-limits?

Btw, kudos to these people. Middle Easterners, regardless of religion, frown upon individualism. Doing something differently than your parents/society is strongly discouraged. These folks are brave, especially considering the backlash many of them will be getting from their community.

[lindysalsagal]

81. seriously

Only personal attacks warrant that, and even then, we're all grown-ups, right???

Just hit close and go rake leaves or wash your hair, for goodness sake.

IGNORE the crap.

[el_bryanto]

52. I can see why some might be concerned

I voted to leave it; but I can understand how some might feel this paints a picture that those who immigrate without leaving Islam are people we should be concerned about. That said that's not a good enough reason to ignore people who feel differently - rather look at all sides of the story.

Bryant

[FLPanhandle]

59. Thanks for the Leave It vote.

Maybe I poorly worded it. That, and as an atheist, I was pissed about the Saudi's applying a death sentence to someone who left Islam.

[sibelian]

37. RIDICULOUS alert. RIDICULOUS.

I am tired of this nonsense. This religion does revolting things to people all the time and every attempt to explain that it's the BELIEF that's causing the problem is turned into "you hate the PEOPLE" no matter how many times the appropriate language is used and no matter how many times it's explained that we already understand that belief and worshipper are different things.

"Muslim bashing" my arse, how is it bashing when it's Muslims themselves making the point?

We need to distinguish between "MUSLIMOPHOBIA" and "ISLAMOPHOBIA". It's getting important now.

RIDICULOUS.

[smirkymonkey]

50. Thank YOU!

[hifiguy]

90. Bravo!

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

66. Awful alert, but not surprising

We know what the deal is.

[CJCRANE]

35. This is less of a problem in secular regimes which kept a lid on religious fundamentalism.

Pity we removed most of them and helped to install islamist regimes and support islamist rebels.

[Rex]

41. +1

[uppityperson]

36. People who use religion to hurt others, extremist fundamentalists, are a big problem

[Codeine]

38. Forget it, Jake; it's DemocraticUnderground. nt

[FLPanhandle]

48. A few other great posts from Muslims

#ExMuslimBecause because I got tired of making excuses for every violent, hateful verse and Hadith. Simply stopped deluding myself!

:large

:large

Nemat Sadat ‏@nematsadat
#ExMuslimBecause I'm gay and proud to be the first public figure to come out and campaign for LGBTI Rights in Afghanistan.

Lalo Dagach ‏@lalodagach
#ExMuslimBecause those who dared to leave Islam are the bravest and most courageous amongst us Atheists.

Eiynah -- ‏@NiceMangos
#ExMuslimBecause I want to be free to draw and write without fearing for my life.

Brother Rachid ‏@BrotherRasheed
#ExMuslimBecause I wanted to reclaim my humanity

[6chars]

77. How big a risk are these people taking that they will be killed?

It seems dangerous.

[Trajan]

53. Your dismissiveness of the serious nature of this event

An event that had been declared weeks in advance, is, frankly, rather sad ....

Not sure what to say ... Bye seems appropriate ...

[FLPanhandle]

57. Some people dismiss what they don't want to see

It's an expected reaction from those that are stuck on their own world view and experience information that challenges it.

You see it with Creationists and Climate Change Deniers all the time too.

[climber3986]

61. replace ex-muslim with 'have been raped'

and now you sound like the a right winger. We cant trust them at their word because it goes against the narrative. Violence against apostates in many gulf region countries is a very serious issue.

Have you ever been outside the united states?

[sibelian]

62. Ok, there IS such a thing as Muslim apostasy

And it's a big thing in the Muslim world because some movements have the DEATH PENALTY FOR IT.

It's not a joke, closeupready. Yes, there are Muslim apostates. Go and look at Youtube, there's videos about it all over the place, just because the Western media doesn't really pay any attention to it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Humanist_Activist]

70. Considering the penalties for being an apostate in many Muslim countries, along with the danger...

that many people's families and friends present, not saying all our true, but at least some fraction would be.

[ericson00]

58. I'm dying to see Bill Maher tonight.

it will be EPIC

[MowCowWhoHow III]

67. Bradford dad attacked by pickaxe thugs ‘for converting from Islam to Christianity (UK 2015)

Terrifying video shows Bradford dad attacked by pickaxe thugs ‘for converting from Islam to Christianity’

A FATHER-of-six was attacked by hooded thugs with a pickaxe handle outside his Bradford home because he converted from Islam to Christianity.

Nissar Hussain, 49, suffered a broken kneecap, a fractured forearm and a concussion in the attack on Tuesday.

He is currently in Bradford Royal Infirmary following surgery after the unprovoked assault outside his home in Manningham.

The episode was caught on Mr Hussain’s home CCTV and is being reviewed by West Yorkshire Police, who have confirmed they are treating it as a religious hate crime.

Read more: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/terrifying-video-shows-bradford-dad-attacked-by-pickaxe-thugs-for-converting-from-islam-to-christianity-1-7579804#ixzz3s5xOw7FI

[agnostic102]

73. its sad

to see some of the comments here questioning the people who left islam. I left islam and im sorry but i dont apologize for it and and certainly im not going back to iran or saudi to be executed. I dont deserve to have my head cutt of or be stoned to death because i refuse to believe in a fairy tale. If that upsets some people thats fine and if they want to question me thats fine. But i lived under sharia law. Those people are playing for keeps over who has the best imaginary friend. I have a right to life irrelevant of my beliefs.

[FLPanhandle]

74. Ignore the one or two that do that; it doesn't fit their narrative so they attack.

Personally, I'm proud of you.

It's easy to give up religion for rational thought in secular countries. It takes an amazing amount of courage to do that when your entire country, friends, and family won't support it.

[femmedem]

92. Welcome to DU

and thank you for offering your perspective.

[Spider Jerusalem]

75. And I'm sure you can probably find just as many people...

who are happy to tell you why they're ex-Catholics, or ex-Mormons.

[6chars]

78. Probably more

Since they are not supposed to be killed just for leaving their religions.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. And Muslims in Western countries generally won't be killed for leaving, either.

Upon a time, though? Christians considered apostate or heretic were just as likely to be put to death (one of my ancestors was burnt at the stake as a heretic under bloody Mary Tudor in 1558, and a distant great-uncle of mine who was a Catholic was hanged under Elizabeth I for hiding a priest).

[6chars]

86. generally not. in western countries. i like them odds.

http://formermuslimsunited.org/apostasy-from-islam/

[earthside]

79. Replace 'ex-Muslim' with ex-Mormon' ...

... the signs are 90 percent just as apropos.

Do you think anyone would 'alert' on that -- or would there be broad approval?

[Bluenorthwest]

87. November 11- Thousands of Mormons Plan to Abandon the Faith This Weekend- 98 DU rec's

Thousands of Mormons Plan to Abandon the Faith This Weekend
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141257138