Being shot while parachuting from an airplane, or having a bomb drop on your head

[IsItJustMe]

I see several posters saying that it was very cowardly to shoot the people who had parachuted out of those air plains in Syria. I think one could easily argue that bombing people from thousands of feet in the air could also be considered cowardly.

What I think these posters fail to realize is that these people, on the ground, are constantly being bombed. I would imagine by this point, they would probably shoot anything that moves.

It's just to damned easy to sit around from our arm chairs and call people cowards and place our judgments on them. I would not know however, since as of yet I have not had a bomb dropped on me. Perhaps you know better. I am not Jesus or Buddha, and these people probably are not either.

[951-Riverside]

1. I wonder why you avoided bringing up ISIS/ISIL in your post

[bluedigger]

2. Probably because the OP is referring to Turkmen, who are neither.

[Adrahil]

3. The people the Russians are bombing...

Near the Turkish border are not Daesh. In fact, only a fraction of their targets are Daesh.

[951-Riverside]

5. Wow. I didnt know that.

Source?

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. There is this great thing called the google (and the string is easy to enter too)

but here to help...

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/world/europe/russia-airstrikes-syria.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/21/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-strikes-idUSKCN0SF24L20151021

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/07/russia-airstrikes-syria-not-targetting-isis

Now there is the before an airliner went down and after, and especially before and after Paris. The Russians are starting to target ISIS a tad more.

[uppityperson]

4. I winner why you bring up DAESH since that post had nothing to do with them

[IsItJustMe]

9. The point that I am making is one of rationality.

Not one for who side I am on, or who side you are on. The reality of human nature, in my humble opinion, is that these people are pissed because bombs are constantly falling on them. Then they see a couple of guys parachuting from an air plane.

I am sure that since they don't have air planes, they will strongly assume that these are the same people that have been bombing them. I don't think it would be rational for them, you, or I to pull out our latest hand book on the Geneva Convention to see what is to be done.

I think the people who are arguing these types of absurdities are absolutely ignorant and/or totally living in another reality system.

[951-Riverside]

13. I absolutely respect your point and understand where you're coming from

Thanks for adding that.

[atreides1]

6. The people on the ground are rebel fighters!

And that means they're going to get bombed!

But under your definition of "cowardly" that means the use of drones being flown by operators thousands of miles away, are cowards as well!

And let's not forget the US use of aircraft against the non-flying Taliban, that would make those US airmen cowards, also, at least in accordance with your definition!

[enough]

8. Do you actually think that dropping bombs on people from thousands of miles away

is not cowardly?

I'm having trouble sorting out sarcasm from irony here.

[IsItJustMe]

10. And how exactly do you know that? Are you there?

I have no idea who these people are. Am I to take Putin's word for it.

[IsItJustMe]

12. I never called anyone a coward. Read the post please. Leave your emotions out of it.

[enough]

7. It's interesting how the people who have bombs dropped on their heads

seem never to be very important, or almost not to exist.

[IsItJustMe]

11. There is no doubt in my mind at least, that thousands, if not tens of thousands of innocent people

are being bombed.

It must be great to live in a black and white world and believe that only rebels are dying. Anyone with more than two brain cells and an ounce of truth to them knows better.

[Skittles]

14. my mum had bombs dropped at her

she would never have approved of shooting parachuting pilots - never

[Logical]

16. We bomb hospitals and weddings. Better that shooting parachutists? Nt

[IsItJustMe]

19. I hope that you just forgot your SARCASM icon.

[Logical]

20. Nope! Nt

[IsItJustMe]

23. LOL

Be careful, I understand Ted Cruse has a register he would like to put you on.

[Logical]

25. I understand you are clueless about what we have done to innocent....

Civilians. Or you know and don't give a shit.

[IsItJustMe]

29. No need to get ugly. Have a nice day.

[Logical]

33. Do you realize we are on the same side of this?????? Nt

[IsItJustMe]

18. I don't know if you are a religious person, but it is my undetanding

that there are two words that are God's and God's alone. Those two words are NEVER and ALWAYS.

I can't speak for your mum because I can't honestly even speak for myself given every situation that I may ever experience, and the way I would react to that experience, in my life.

[Skittles]

21. it has nothing to do with religion

[DisgustipatedinCA]

35. No, actually you are able to decide if you want to murder someone or not.

If you're the guy with the gun, and the pilot is parachuting, that means he's already out of action. If you wish to kill him in an extrajudicial manner while he floats through the sky, that's all on you.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

32. My mum and dad also had bombs dropped on them.

Although I haven't spoken to them about what happened today - I know they don't like that sort of thing.

My dad always told me about the POW that did farm work around where he lived. They were treated decent and certainly not shot at.

[Skittles]

39. my mum knew a gal who married one of the POWs after the war

he had been a farm worker too

my mum detested senseless violence - no matter what the reason

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I will make a few points

1.- Yes, people are reacting out of emotion

2.- It has nothing to do with being a coward or not... yes Virginia it is against the Conventions of War, but that does not matter. See point 3.

3.- These are non state actors not subject to conventions that might as well be in Jupiter. They are not signatories, so under the crazy way they work... pretty much they are, to a point, legally mind you, free to do this if they want to... who are you gong to call? The Russian Air force?

4.- This is asymmetrical warfare at it's best. All this is also about messages being sent...

5.- They were being bombed... and what the pilots were bombing are targets assigned by mission planners, it has not one iota to do with being brave or a coward either. So reacting that way... well. And anyway the guys going DON'T, wanted to take these guys as hostages, not POWs... so there go those niceties too.

6.- It is nice for most people here to opine on this. None of us is getting shot at right now either.

7.- Most people have no clue about how the actual rules of war work either... and I hope they never have to find out.

[TipTok]

22. Maybe you think combat should be fair?

We can all get in big long lines at a few hundred yards so that everyone gets an equal whack at it?

Is someone still cowardly if they are in a firefight but call in CAS (Close Air Support)?

Do they have to be within line of sight or just have an equal chance of dying?

[IsItJustMe]

24. There is nothing that has ever been fair about warfare, nor will there ever be.

It is what it is.

[TipTok]

26. Then at what point does dropping a bomb become cowardly?

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. How many bombs do think the two in that MIG-24 dropped on innocent people?

Given that it's a fighter plane??

They were hanging under chutes, at the mercy of the breeze, unable to defend themselves. Fuck them, right?

[IsItJustMe]

28. I have no idea. Perhaps you do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. SU 24, it is a bomber

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24

Not that it matters much to most people, fighter, bomber... hey, earlier in the day my WAG was a Fulcrum (mig 29) they have deployed a few.

Shrugs shoulders.

[jeff47]

34. It's a bomber, dropping dumb bombs. Dumb bombs miss a lot.

There were far more than two people hit by the bombs that plane can carry.

It's more-or-less the Russian equivalent of the F-111. It can carry about 17,000 lbs of bombs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24

[flamingdem]

31. Obama is right, Putin needs to focus on Isis and leave anti-Assad forces alone

Guardian: Tensions between Turkey and Russia have risen over Moscow’s bombing campaign against ethnic Turkmens close to the Turkish border. Turkey has repeatedly expressed concern over the attacks on the Turkmens, a Sunni Muslim minority whom many Turks regard as their kith and kin. Like the Ankara government, the Turkmens oppose Assad’s Alawite regime.

As Richard Engel just stated on msnbc this was waiting to happen.

[polly7]

36. It's pure cowardice and should be a war crime. nt.

[treestar]

37. in the context they are enemy combatants

Maybe they are supposed to be taken prisoner under the rules. The situation in Syria is so chaotic they could hardly expect surviving on the ground anyway.

[LanternWaste]

38. It's the idiot's task to glorify war and pretend honor therein exists.

Von Clausewitz wrote "The only purpose of waging war is to prevent the opposition the ability to wage war."

In the mid to late 1700's, a bunch of dogmatic old men who yet believed war and honor could co-exist called the American insurgents "cowardly in form, hiding as do the hunted beaver. Let no honorable man be deceived, the tincture of cowardice lies upon them." (British Gen. William Howe, 5th Viscount of Howe, writing home from his expedition into the colonial insurgency in 1777).

There is no fair-play in a bloodied conflict. There is no code of honor when arms and legs do not know who they belong to. It's the height of an irrational mind to pretend that every government involved is not looking for a way to prevent the opposition from waging war, regardless of how, and regardless of the commercial branding of "cowardice" the weak-minded lay on it.

The weak-minded idiots may continue the pretense that war is filled with righteous honor and maintain their chewing-gum philosophies that Moscow is innocent of all but just actions and noble intent, but those who have lived through write differently...

"I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.
In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again."

Dead is dead. War is war. It's the idiot's task to glorify war and pretend honor therein exists.