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MrScorpio

(73,666 posts)
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 10:13 AM Nov 2015

In America, we're being advised to treat the police as if they're dangerous predators…

Don't attract their attention, don't make them nervous, do everything they tell us to do, if you won't stick out then they won't have a reason to pounce on you.

By that extension, then the rest of us are nothing more than prey.

79 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In America, we're being advised to treat the police as if they're dangerous predators… (Original Post) MrScorpio Nov 2015 OP
I am highly unlikely to call the police for any reason. Kelvin Mace Nov 2015 #1
Be sure no one else does, see this story therehegoes Nov 2015 #44
One of the more astute observations I've seen in awhile. AngryOldDem Nov 2015 #2
Opposite of what American police are supposed to be damnedifIknow Nov 2015 #3
You can't even look at police officers "inappropriately" gollygee Nov 2015 #4
Don't taunt Happy Fun Ball underpants Nov 2015 #5
OMG I love happy fun ball! ybbor Nov 2015 #15
I have neighbors who have enough political strings to bring on Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #6
So true Person 2713 Nov 2015 #10
Stories like yours are what made me really understand my white privilege. PatrickforO Nov 2015 #30
You don't know how much that means to me to hear it from someone. Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #47
I am so ashamed and embarrassed that this is how you are treated. randys1 Nov 2015 #52
Thanks, randys1. Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #64
Thanks for your post. It is an eye-opener. Wow! JDPriestly Nov 2015 #71
Yard waste got s helicopter visit? What did they think you were doing? uppityperson Nov 2015 #57
Just glad I have it on security cam footage. Baitball Blogger Nov 2015 #65
So true! n/t Brainstormy Nov 2015 #7
Some are. Igel Nov 2015 #8
I don't treat the police as "enemies," only as dangerous and random. hunter Nov 2015 #42
They have declared war on civilians... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2015 #49
This police culture is not an accident. The 1% loves this. They love chaos in the 99%. rhett o rick Nov 2015 #9
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #13
thank you for that link. niyad Nov 2015 #35
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #38
This is a great post, thanks! nt haikugal Nov 2015 #32
They've been militarized to the teeth because the 1% hifiguy Nov 2015 #56
Good point. But also, should they bring in the military to shoot us in the streets there would be rhett o rick Nov 2015 #78
Huge +1! Enthusiast Nov 2015 #72
LEOs - Terrorizing The 99% - To Protect And Serve The 1% cantbeserious Nov 2015 #11
And the fact that many (most?) of them are "militarized" doesn't make them seem erronis Nov 2015 #20
It, also, doesn't help that police departments, across America ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #34
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #40
Exactly DebbieCDC Nov 2015 #45
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #46
Veterans are an annoyance to repubs once they are used up and spent on war. randys1 Nov 2015 #54
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #12
most of them are ignorant NJCher Nov 2015 #14
Bush and Cheney... SoapBox Nov 2015 #18
None of the many, deplorable changes made have ever had anything to do with terrorists. haikugal Nov 2015 #36
They continued it... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2015 #50
Some where Jack Web is turning over in his grave yuiyoshida Nov 2015 #16
Don't we, the citizens, PAY for them? SoapBox Nov 2015 #17
It's become pretty much the same for many things. We are forced to pay, but often have no say. n/t RKP5637 Nov 2015 #75
Seems the message from media is that police are to be feared. PufPuf23 Nov 2015 #19
That's the message from the police, too. Iggo Nov 2015 #22
Agree that is message from police, media is their PR. PufPuf23 Nov 2015 #23
But these soldiers won't be able to get other jobs... erronis Nov 2015 #24
Work on infrastructure, restoration, and the environment maybe? PufPuf23 Nov 2015 #26
Totally agree. However that would take an executive and a legislature. erronis Nov 2015 #29
K&R for the sad truth. Scuba Nov 2015 #21
The worst part is that it probably keeps quite a few people safe loyalsister Nov 2015 #25
That's basically the same advice you get The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2015 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author jonno99 Nov 2015 #28
Cops should understand that they are not soldiers. sulphurdunn Nov 2015 #31
Where's the Justice Dept? When we're to the point where people are afraid to call the police..... raindaddy Nov 2015 #33
Good question... haikugal Nov 2015 #39
Hey, they have Wall Street crime to ignore and hifiguy Nov 2015 #62
depressingly sad, but true niyad Nov 2015 #37
good article here: bbgrunt Nov 2015 #41
This anti-Police campaign has powerful backers CATO.org http://www.policemisconduct.net/ Todays_Illusion Nov 2015 #43
Then the NRA can have everyone carry. glinda Nov 2015 #58
KnR! n/t Admiral Loinpresser Nov 2015 #48
Those rules are for you, not me. Now I cant do something REALLY stupid randys1 Nov 2015 #51
Unfortunately, that is the only sensible way to proceed anymore. hifiguy Nov 2015 #53
The real prey part may be coming w0nderer Nov 2015 #55
Is that why they ride my car bumper all of the time now? glinda Nov 2015 #60
Trick my ex taught me w0nderer Nov 2015 #61
Who's 'advising us to treat police as if predators'? elias49 Nov 2015 #59
have you seen Trevor Noah's standup KT2000 Nov 2015 #63
K & R Liberal_Dog Nov 2015 #66
The purpose of police in capitalism is to protect the powerful and control the population Cheese Sandwich Nov 2015 #67
My neighbor who lives two doors down from me is a city policeman. totodeinhere Nov 2015 #68
Let's say this, we learn early on that the police are not our friends nt MrScorpio Nov 2015 #69
anyone who still trusts the police indivisibleman Nov 2015 #70
K&R! Freedumb. Enthusiast Nov 2015 #73
"Americans need to watch what they say, watch what they do" -Ari Fleischer Fumesucker Nov 2015 #74
I would call a cop as a last resort. I also don't like being near them in traffic. They RKP5637 Nov 2015 #76
Ditto. nt Live and Learn Nov 2015 #77
Not where I live. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #79
 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
1. I am highly unlikely to call the police for any reason.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 10:17 AM
Nov 2015

As I do not wish to be murdered, or have them murder someone else.

therehegoes

(37 posts)
44. Be sure no one else does, see this story
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:45 PM
Nov 2015

I'll include links but this is my story so no copyright issues:

friscopaul.blogspot.com

Frisco Paul's Experience is the best example of how an innocent man can sit in prison because evidence collected via body cam was tampered with after the fact! Only after trial and by having experts double checking experts did we find that the erased audio portion (the warning yelled out to the owner's son Rick that proved that Mr. Bailey acted in accordance with Texas' Castle Law!) would be retrieved from the car dash cam over 100 feet away from the home! In addition, we just got proof of forgery as well.

You can read the grounds for new trial below (definitely worth the read), but you must take a look at the Latest News. It's beyond bizarre!

Latest News on Case:

Court of Appeals is in violation of Supreme Court Ruling Holmes V South Carolina by refusing to force the trial court to deal with the issues we cover below (forged evidence, tampered evidence, main witness dishonorably discharged and endangered hundreds of cases, Collin County DA has recently been highlighted as withholding evidence from Grand Juries-- all discussed below)

Lawflog covers the grand jury issues and Collin County Prosecutor's relationship with recently indicted AG Ken Paxton.

http://lawflog.com/?p=972
http://lawflog.com/?p=896
http://lawflog.com/?p=861
http://lawflog.com/?p=852

Recently we also got a report from a forensic document examiner, that a key piece of evidence was forged. The signature that was forged was none other than the late Detective Debra Stansell. Links to full coverage, photos of documents, and downloads to the information is here.

http://www.friscopaul.blogspot.com/2015/11/collin-county-da-greg-willis-used.html#links

July 2014- Ex-Officer Greer resigned and was dishonorably discharged for sexual misconduct with a rape victim who later turned up murdered. He was also decertified for any testimony, endangering hundreds of cases.

Frisco Texas did an “audit” of cases he worked on (so they could feign responsible behavior) and found 3 more instances of sexual misconduct but clearly failed to look at other improprieties. Why? Because in Paul Bailey's Case, the city has major liability in that not only was evidence tampered with, but the police assisted the bogus 911 caller with a theft of Mr. Bailey's home. The "erased evidence" (deemed "criminally altered" by one of the experts we had look at the evidence) from Greer's lapel mic proving Bailey's innocence was recently recovered (after trial and incompetent legal assistance) from the car audio as well. Detective Debra Stansell (who Bailey hoped to have testify) showed up dead to suspicious circumstances just a few weeks before trial.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/frisco/headlines/20140709-frisco-detectives-sexual-misconduct-may-jeopardize-trials.ece

Sept 2014- The city attorney (Rebecca Hendricks Brewer) was also arrested for cutting her boyfriend and shooting out his windshield. She was formerly married to the 366th Judge Greg Brewer who abruptly resigned 2 days after Bailey was arrested. They are now divorced. What does he know?

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/frisco/headlines/20140709-frisco-detectives-sexual-misconduct-may-jeopardize-trials.ece

By the way, we're not sure if this should be a comedy or a drama!

Note to Readers: Please note that since the Writ of Habeas was filed, several issues must clearly be understood:

1) The primary witness Detective Debra Stansell was unable to testify due to her untimely and suspicious death (officially ruled a suicide).

2) The primary witness that testified former detective Scott Greer:

a. has been Dishonorably discharged from the Frisco Police Department for sexual misconduct with a rape victim whose case he was assigned who later became a murder victim, prompting Texas Rangers to begin looking at the case.

b. Secondly he has been barred as a witness for the prosecution which has affected hundreds of cases.
c. Frisco PD only conducted an "audit" for the cases he was assigned to in the criminal investigation division, NOT for cases he worked on as a patrol officer (which would have included Mr. Bailey's case). Please also note that they apparently were fixated on finding additional sexual misconduct, not OTHER TYPES of misconduct or malfeasance (as we will show in the following discussion). We believe this reflects obvious malfeasance/cover up by the Frisco Police Department on covering up at least some of their employee misconduct.

d. From the following article we highlight and quote Greer's own admission of additional sexual malfeasance):

"Greer testified at a hearing Monday that he had sex one time with the victim in a pending misdemeanor assault case. He also testified he had sex with the mother of a defendant after charges against her son were dropped. In addition, he said he met the mother of a victim in a sexual assault case at a hotel for sex."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/frisco/headlines/20140709-frisco-detectives-sexual-misconduct-may-jeopardize-trials.ece

3) The Frisco City Attorney Rebecca Brewer was arrested for cutting her boyfriend and shooting out his car window.

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2014/08/mckinney-attorney-arrested-for-aggravated-assault.html/

Texas Rangers aren't interested in looking into Detective Debra Stansell's suspicious "suicide" since they don't "have the manpower" and they don't like my blog! Hellooooo- there wouldn't need to be a blog had anyone done their jobs-including my court-appointed public pretenders, Gregg Gibbs, Mark Ledbetter, and the latest, Stephanie Hudson- who won't contact me despite my requests!

The following is the Writ of Habeas that I and my team of volunteers compiled and the links to the documents supporting this writ follow.


GROUND ONE:

Tampering of police certified audio/video tape

FACTS SUPPORTING GROUND ONE:

1) Audio from video evidence was discovered and confirmed by multiple forensics experts to have been tampered with. The 4 seconds in Greer's lapel mic was to erase Applicant’s explicit warning to the perceived burglar [whom Applicant called out by name], which would demonstrate with absolute certainty that Applicant did not know that the person on his property [Greer] was a police officer and acted in accordance with Castle Law.

2) Office Greer stated later on the audio video evidence “I don’t think he could see me, though. Have Dispatch call the Reporting Party to call him and let him know it's the (expletive) Police”.

3) In addition, there is a 5 minute blanked out spot in the Claussen video.

4) Applicant discovered the tampering of the evidence by having the two police certified
audio tapes analyzed by several experts in order to have undisputable proof, that is “experts checking experts”.

5)Furthermore, no gunshot is heard on the lapel mic and even though the audio (after tampered spot) is back on, it is not heard. This has been proven by syncing the car audio with the lapel mic audio. This proves that Officer Greer was farther away from the residence than the car because the gunshot is heard on the car audio.

6) An audio engineer was able to enhance the sound from the car audio and retrieve the missing 4 second spot that was tampered with and prove that Applicant was calling out to the perceived intruder and acted in complete accordance with Texas' Castle Law Note: Applicant's son was also the bogus 911 caller who needed his father out of the house in order to take the items needed to complete a car purchase the following day. In fact, he did just that with the assistance of police who invited him into the home once applicant was arrested, despite Applicant's express directions not to allow him into the home. Son is serving sentence for stealing applicant's identity and other items with the help of police).

7) Finally, Greer testified that he never turns off his mic. A beep occurs just prior to the blank 4 second spot. The National Center for Audio Visual Forensics stated clearly in an email that a beep occurs whenever the mic is turned off. Had Trial Counsel been effective, he would have clearly made the point to ask Greer why a beep occurred there if he never turned off his mic. This illustrates that the altering party knew the idiosyncrasies of the L3 Mobile Vision Software, but did not know that Greer's future testimony regarding his routine would contradict tape

GROUND TWO:

False testimony given by Frisco Police Officer Scott Greer and 911 operator Delanna Copeland.

FACTS SUPPORTING GROUND TWO:

1) Delanna Copeland violated proper police protocols when she did not question 911 caller's authenticity/motives when she did not question why his stated location differed from his actual location.

2) Greer was wearing a lapel audio transmitter, Lapel audio tape and car audio/video evidences that Officer Greer did not:

(a) park in front of the home,
(b) have his lights on,
(c) wait for backup,
(d) nor did he announce himself as a police officer when he entered Applicant’s property and approached Applicant’s home.
(e) have a warrant nor consent to enter Applicant’s property,
(f) have probable cause to do so,
(g) note any exigent circumstances present, and
(h) note problems. He stated in Police Report that Applicant was watching TV and drinking a beer (meaning no problems observed).

3) The audio recording further evidences that Applicant did not know that the person on his property [Greer] was a police officer. Officer Greer falsely testified that Applicant knew he was a police officer and intended to shoot at him. Officer Greer falsely asserted that he could see the muzzle fire from the gun held in the Applicant's hand .

4) In contradiction to his testimony in court, Officer Greer expressly states on the lapel mic that, “I don't think [Applicant] could see me” and asks to “have dispatch call the [reporting party] to call [Applicant] and let him know it’s the [expletive] police”

5) Due to recent forensic experts looking at the evidence, it is clear that Officer Greer was nowhere near the Applicant’s door when the gun was shot as the gunshot was not recorded on Officer’s lapel mic audio, but WAS recorded on the car audio which was 100+ feet away. Officer Greer falsely testified that he was in front of the door when the gun was shot. The tampered spot was a 4 second spot BEFORE the area where the gunshot should have been recorded and the sound comes back on in time for it to have been recorded-however the gunshot is not where it should have been.

6) A Forensic expert has now been able to enhance Applicant's warning to perceived burglar from the CAR audio. (This is the 4 second spot that was erased/tampered with from the lapel mic audio). This also proves that Applicant was acting in accordance with Texas' Castle Law. This warning has been confirmed by another expert.


GROUND THREE:

False report given by court appointed authenticator, Herbert Joe regarding the audio tape

FACTS SUPPORTING GROUND THREE:


1. Report did not state the evidence of tampering.

2. Joe’s report did not synchronize the two audios properly and detect that Officer Greer's testimony was false considering the scientific impossibility of him being where he said he was that is, near Applicant’s door.

3. Further, Joe’s report did not state that Officer Greer expressly mentioned that Applicant did not know that the person on his property was a police officer.

4. The report also did not state that no gunshot was audible from Officer Greer’s lapel audio transmitter and that the audio recording only picked up static, not the sound of a gunshot. The gunshot was recorded in the car audio 100+ feet away and WAS recorded on the car audio.

5. Joe's report did not state why his report was so radically different from the text messages originally sent to Counsel Raphael DeLagarza and Applicant.

GROUND FOUR: Ineffective Counsel sabotaged Applicant's defense

Trial counsel sabotaged Applicant's defense by not questioning and investigating tampered evidence, multiple breaches of police protocol by 911 dispatcher and Officers, did not point out and argue that Greer's recorded statements on the audio that evening impeached his testimony on the stand when he stated that “I don't think he could see me though” and “Have Dispatch call the RP (reporting party) and have him call him and tell him it's the (expletive) Police!”. Counsel did not challenge State's failure to provide all evidence prior to trial. Trial counsel sabotaged Applicant's defense, was hostile to defendant, did not adequately question or have confirmation of strange spots on audio examined, took police dismissive attitude that the 4 second erased spot was “a glitch”, and sabotaged defense of client, by not questioning and investigating into the same. Counsel failed to obtain relevant testimony, evidence, & analysis, and a serious, competent defense strategy as agreed to in front of the Judge and question the tampered evidence (and evidence never provided) has resulted in the jury finding the Applicant guilty. Counsel acted with malice and contributed to a successful malicious prosecution by the Ass't. DA. Counsel had a conflict of interest with head Detective's family. Counsel stated to Applicant's Daughter and Ex-Wife that he never takes these types of cases and only did so because of the Judge's insistence. Applicant has now discovered evidence presented in the trial court was tampered with. Proper analysis of audio/video tape by MULTIPLE experts proves that false testimony was given by Officer Greer regarding Applicant’s arrest and the court appointed authenticator, Herbert Joe also gave a false report on the audio/video tape.

FACTS SUPPORTING GROUND FOUR:

1. Counsel deliberately misled Applicant by stating the sound on lapel mic recording was a gunshot, when it was static background noise and not the sound of gunshot.

2. Trial counsel ignored the fact that Joe’s initial texts to previously counsel, Raphael Delagarza were different from the final report.

3. Applicant’s counsel failed to question about the 5 minute blanked spot where there is no audio in the Claussen Video.

4. Counsel failed to question Joe about the syncing of the lapel & car videos and investigate the missing gunshot on the lapel mic, which would have proven that Greer was not where he said he was and that no assault occurred.

5. Applicant’s counsel did not challenge the State’s failure to provide ALL evidence to Applicant before trial. In fact, to this day, much evidence has still been withheld despite the Attorney Generals directive to turn it over to Applicant.

6. Counsel ignored Officer Greer’s multiple breaches of police protocol. Counsel failed to question the credibility of the 911 emergency dispatch caller which evidenced that the caller while stating he was out of state was, in fact, in Fort Worth, Texas.

7. When Prosecutors showed a timeline “showing” that communication for several hours occurred with Applicant, Applicant asked counsel to object because it was not supported by forensic evidence, Mark Ledbetter told his Client to “Shut the (expletive) up”.

8. Counsel did not point that Greer's recorded statements impeached his testimony when he stated that “I don't think he could see me though” and “Have Dispatch call the RP (reporting party) and have him call him and tell him it's the (expletive) Police!”

9. Applicant’s counsel further accepted the position during questioning at trial that the erased portion of the recording was a glitch, rather than tampered evidence. Counsel failed to ask Greer why a beep occurred prior to blank 4 second spot if he never turned off his mic, thereby proving that the altering party knew the idiosyncrasies of the L3 Mobile Vision System, but did NOT know (at time of tampering) that Greer's testimony regarding his routine would contradict the beep and blanked out spot.

10. Counsel failed to obtain witnesses, experts, analysis that could have assisted in a competent defense. Counsel failed to provide the court with police reports of the police assisted theft that occurred after Applicant was arrested.

11. Counsel refused to raise Applicant's strategy of defense even though he confirmed his agreement (to the court) to utilize this strategy. It is for this reason and this reason only that Applicant agreed to have him represent him.

12. Counsel failed to introduce Son's arrest and incarceration record, Multiple threats and text to “leave his stuff outside” as support for the state of mind of the Applicant.

13. Counsel failed to point out the fraudulent, retroactively altered “original” indictment and ask why would an indictment time-stamped almost 18 months prior to the Motion to Amend with the exact same font and phraseology, need to be “amended”?

14. Counsel failed to point out that in no way, is Applicant responsible for the bogus 911 call made by his son to 911, or the 911 Operator and Police making no less than five (5) critical errors in their duties which led up to the event.

Links to source documents:

1) The first file is the Habeas Cover Sheet required by the State of Texas.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEb1hCR3Q5YUNDeDA/edit?usp=sharing

2) The 2nd file, continues the motion.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOETjE5Uk42TGgxQkk/edit?usp=sharing

3) The 3rd through 7th files are attachments and evidence.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEVF9ZU3VUVnFPR1U/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEbzJTVDkweVdDdkE/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEalpwcENZU1FweUk/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEV0RrMmlINDZaS1k/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0A0RQkG9cOEMTMyYXNhSGlROGc/edit?usp=sharing

Baitball Blogger

(47,239 posts)
6. I have neighbors who have enough political strings to bring on
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 10:54 AM
Nov 2015

sheriff helicopters. Of course, I'm going from perceptions. On the day that the USA soccer team beat Germany, it was a Tuesday. That's the night we put out the yard trash for Wednesday pick-up. Of course we stayed in to watch the finish of the game and then went out to lug twenty bags of yard waste to the street. Though it was dark, we were under a street light so you wouldn't think it was a big deal. But no sooner were we in the house when a helicopter started hoovering overhead and the van that I suspect is a surveillance van came into the neighborhood. And, of course there were footpatrols from the cabal neighbors. That is what happens when a neighborhood has a guilty conscience from past historical indiscretions, and you have caught on to them.

Of course, it is all precipitated by people who are so entitled that they don't even know that Tuesday night is the night we put out yard trash.

Vigilantism, like the kind that inspired George Zimmerman is very strong in this county. We get drive-thrus from the same pick-up trucks and SUVs at all hours of the day or night; if I'm working in the yard, especially the side yard, people have walked back to prominently show that they are watching. Not last week, a golfcart that was driving by stopped to watch my husband as he returned from turning on the sprinkler system.

Yup. If you are a member of a minority group who is aware of their illegal dalliances, they will do whatever they can to make you feel like you don't belong.

PatrickforO

(14,698 posts)
30. Stories like yours are what made me really understand my white privilege.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:28 PM
Nov 2015

That stuff just wouldn't happen to me, and it really sucks that it happens to you. We aren't free as a people until you're free from that kind of shit.

Baitball Blogger

(47,239 posts)
47. You don't know how much that means to me to hear it from someone.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 03:58 PM
Nov 2015

My parents really did raise me to deal with tremendous adversity, though I don't think even they anticipated what I would be dealing with. I learned early how to block out negatives and concentrate on productive endeavors, but that was under normal circumstances. I'm pretty much flying by the seat of my pants in this new era.

Baitball Blogger

(47,239 posts)
64. Thanks, randys1.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:44 PM
Nov 2015

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 10:36 PM - Edit history (1)

No question that the priority is to stop the abuse of PoC who are facing physical abuse by the police, but it's always good to remember that the police have support within their own communities for the things they do.

uppityperson

(115,694 posts)
57. Yard waste got s helicopter visit? What did they think you were doing?
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:32 PM
Nov 2015

I can hear the call. "My neighbor is putting bags of I don't know what!! Omg!!!"

But seriously, wtf.

Baitball Blogger

(47,239 posts)
65. Just glad I have it on security cam footage.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:46 PM
Nov 2015

You can see the surveillance van, but my cams don't pick up noise so the helicopter would probably be out of range. Still, would not be difficult for an enterprising reporter to request public record requests to see if they left a paper trail.

Igel

(35,728 posts)
8. Some are.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:12 AM
Nov 2015

some aren't.

But treating people as enemies has seldom led to their feeling friendly, nor has it generally led to their being treated in a way that produces anything less than hostility.

This you could call a vicious circle. Assuming that hostility is a kind of vice, of course.

hunter

(38,582 posts)
42. I don't treat the police as "enemies," only as dangerous and random.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:16 PM
Nov 2015

Police in the U.S.A. are too likely to make a bad situation worse.

I live in a place where the police don't respond to small stuff anyways.

If nobody is dead, bleeding, or on fire, they'll ask you to fill out a report on their internet site, or to come down to the station and wait a long time sitting among many very interesting people, to tell your sad story to an officer behind bullet-proof glass, who will enter your story into the same database their web site uses, ignoring most of the details.

I grew up in one of the whitest, statistically safest, communities in the U.S.A.. The police there protected property values by harassing "undesirable" people, especially those who were not white, or the homeless. "DWB" (Driving while Black) sorts of harassment were their favorite sports. I believe it's still like that, but I left that hell as soon as I could, followed shortly by my parents and younger siblings.

I've lived my adult life in cosmopolitan communities, in neighborhoods where most people are not white.

I'm white, but as a squeaky skinny highly reactive kid taunted as "queerbait," my middle and high school experience in 99.44% white U.S.A. was Lord of the Flies. All-white groups of young men still make me a little nervous.



 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
49. They have declared war on civilians...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:16 PM
Nov 2015

especially African Americans. People are just trying to not get in their way.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
9. This police culture is not an accident. The 1% loves this. They love chaos in the 99%.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:15 AM
Nov 2015

They'd would love a fight between race groups or religious groups or against immigrants. So why would a Democrat support a candidate that will continue this status quo that the 1% has brought to us? Are some so gullible they think that the candidate chosen by the 1% will undo what has been so carefully cultivated?

It's time to end the big money corruption of our government.

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #9)

Response to niyad (Reply #35)

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
56. They've been militarized to the teeth because the 1%
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:31 PM
Nov 2015

doesn't trust the regular uniformed military to turn on the citizenry when the shit hits the fan. They KNOW the kkkops will do so, with glee.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
78. Good point. But also, should they bring in the military to shoot us in the streets there would be
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 11:38 AM
Nov 2015

a major revolt. This was is more sinister. Also, this is race oriented. The 1% would love nothing better than stir up a racial fight among the 99%.

What is being done by the 1% Oligarchy should be obvious. They are systematically destroying the democracy and economy of the 99%. Sadly, there are Democrats that are helping them. The only reason I can figure is authoritarianism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/127710250

erronis

(15,977 posts)
20. And the fact that many (most?) of them are "militarized" doesn't make them seem
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:56 AM
Nov 2015

like Officer Friendly.

Chests and belts full of weaponry, dark glasses or darkened helmets, thick vests around thick bodies, having been trained to not smile or engage, having been trained that the "people" are not your friends but are your enemies.

Doesn't take much of a lurch to turn this into a police state.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
34. It, also, doesn't help that police departments, across America ...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:45 PM
Nov 2015

decided to save on training costs by hiring discharged combat veterans after the first Gulf War. Policing requires a different skill-set/mentality than soldiering ... apparently, the departments didn't recognize that.

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #34)

DebbieCDC

(2,543 posts)
45. Exactly
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:54 PM
Nov 2015

Plus the fact that these PTSD suffering war zone survivors are provided with every conceivable piece of military grade ordnance to "police" with and you have the makings for the situation we have now.

Add to that the fact that many of these vets are/could be 'roided up to the max only intensifies the potential for a violent confrontation over jaywalking, not using a turn signal, being a person of color walking "where you don't belong" or being a woman in a vulnerable situation.

Protect and serve went the way of the dodo bird.

Response to DebbieCDC (Reply #45)

randys1

(16,286 posts)
54. Veterans are an annoyance to repubs once they are used up and spent on war.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:28 PM
Nov 2015

Putting them in police dpts is one way they can absolve themselves of the responsibility.

Veterans of war need a lifetime of medical support, financial support, etc.

If it were up to me we would provide for them forever and they would never have to work.

Lets ask the cons if they are willing to pay for that next time they want to send YOU or your neighbor to war.

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

NJCher

(36,517 posts)
14. most of them are ignorant
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:40 AM
Nov 2015

and totally out of control. Wasn't always true; is true now.

I do everything I can to avoid dealing with them.


Cher

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
18. Bush and Cheney...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:54 AM
Nov 2015

Created the Storm Troopers by funding them...and spreading the 9/11 fear.

Problem...they don't take out "terrorists", they just keep gunning down citizens.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
36. None of the many, deplorable changes made have ever had anything to do with terrorists.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:48 PM
Nov 2015

It's all about control of the 99%.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
50. They continued it...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:18 PM
Nov 2015

but it started before Bush and Cheney. It started at least with the War on Drugs, and has been building since.

yuiyoshida

(42,080 posts)
16. Some where Jack Web is turning over in his grave
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:47 AM
Nov 2015

No way would I call One Adam 12 these days, Mr. Scorpio.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
75. It's become pretty much the same for many things. We are forced to pay, but often have no say. n/t
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 09:21 AM
Nov 2015

PufPuf23

(8,980 posts)
19. Seems the message from media is that police are to be feared.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:55 AM
Nov 2015

I am not for the militarization of law enforcement.

I would go as far as to say most of our civil police should not carry weapons like UK and focus on being public servants that foster public safety and respond to emergencies.

The profession has always tended to attract bullies and borderline thugs.

I again would go so far to say that most soldiers because of their training and trauma are no longer suitable for civil law enforcement.

erronis

(15,977 posts)
24. But these soldiers won't be able to get other jobs...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:02 PM
Nov 2015
I again would go so far to say that most soldiers because of their training and trauma are no longer suitable for civil law enforcement.

What are they trained to do otherwise? Perhaps kindergarten teachers?

Sort of like what we did in Iraq when we "fired" all the Baathist armed forces and police. They had a lot of experience doing what those people do (maintaining control, killing, threatening, etc.) Many of them ended up like our returning vets - out of work and with some dangerous memories and skills. We know that this thing called IS was created from those people. Good work, USA!

PufPuf23

(8,980 posts)
26. Work on infrastructure, restoration, and the environment maybe?
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:17 PM
Nov 2015

Security guards too.

"We" and the World would have been so much better off had we concentrated on putting our own society in order and exported peace instead of war.

Gratuitous Good Work and Go USA!!

Feeling cynical and irritated today after watching the Chicago cop murder video clip. No excuse.

erronis

(15,977 posts)
29. Totally agree. However that would take an executive and a legislature.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:22 PM
Nov 2015

I think we could have a decent (in many senses) president to try to make this happen - especially if we don't get one that is allied with corporations. Congress, especially the house, has become way too friendly with the donations of the corporatists. Let's hope (and pray if necessary.)

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
25. The worst part is that it probably keeps quite a few people safe
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:02 PM
Nov 2015

As a white person it is one of the most jolting things I have learned about the reality of racism.

A few years ago, I saw a video of a man describing an interaction with his nephew who ducked when he saw a police car. He ended it with wondering how to raise kids to be proud of who they are while having to teach them that other people's fear of them could put them in danger.

It is something that white people are finally learning about and one impulse has been to defend the spot that gives them more safety. The ultimate privilege.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(117,534 posts)
27. That's basically the same advice you get
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:19 PM
Nov 2015

if you're hiking in Glacier Park, in case you encounter a grizzly bear.

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
31. Cops should understand that they are not soldiers.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:31 PM
Nov 2015

Those who don't understand that should be treated like enemies.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
33. Where's the Justice Dept? When we're to the point where people are afraid to call the police.....
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:39 PM
Nov 2015

It's way past time for the feds to step in...

Police departments are simply unable to police themselves.. There should be a citizens oversight panel in every major city..Hiring, training, institutional racism, corruption it all needs to be looked at and changed..

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
39. Good question...
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:59 PM
Nov 2015

I've been asking that since 2008 when I thought it would get better. Where is the justice department? Where is justice?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
62. Hey, they have Wall Street crime to ignore and
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:03 PM
Nov 2015

medical MJ dispensaries to close down. Justicein' is hard work.

Todays_Illusion

(1,209 posts)
43. This anti-Police campaign has powerful backers CATO.org http://www.policemisconduct.net/
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:33 PM
Nov 2015

Their primary aim is for privatization of law enforcement, it will work nicely with the for profit prisons.

If we are made to hate our police surely a corporation will do it better.

Not much accountability and profits for law enforcement, what could be better. /s

randys1

(16,286 posts)
51. Those rules are for you, not me. Now I cant do something REALLY stupid
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:21 PM
Nov 2015

like walk up to one and spit in his face, but I also dont have to worry about them most of the time, and I dont.

If i see a cop in my rearview, I dont think twice...where as you...



In case I need to explain

I am white, the person I am responding to is not.

The rules are different for me and him because this is a very racist country

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
53. Unfortunately, that is the only sensible way to proceed anymore.
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:28 PM
Nov 2015

The Gestapo would knock on the door in the middle of the night. US kkkops will just execute people where they stand in broad daylight. Especially African-American people.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
55. The real prey part may be coming
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:30 PM
Nov 2015

what more amusing sport for the 1% or for the 99% to watch than a IRL hunt with live ammo for people?

heh


actually even if you do everything they want, you might still get in trouble.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
60. Is that why they ride my car bumper all of the time now?
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:35 PM
Nov 2015

I keep waiting for them to pull me over because I might speed to get distance from my car to theirs. This has happened more times than I can count in the last year.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
61. Trick my ex taught me
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:54 PM
Nov 2015

if driving stick (or even automatic but better on stick)
foot off gas, not on brake and don't clutch (if it's a stick..engine brake)

no warning light but stops pretty fast (stick) slowly and deceptively (auto)


she's use it no matter who was within a 2 yards of that rear fender
'someone wanna buy me a new car' was her expression

KT2000

(20,679 posts)
63. have you seen Trevor Noah's standup
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:39 PM
Nov 2015

on Comedy Central? He describes learning about how to behave as a black man new to America. It is funny, but also tragic and accurate. Surely they will replay it.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
67. The purpose of police in capitalism is to protect the powerful and control the population
Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:49 PM
Nov 2015

Any protecting and serving is purely coincidental.

totodeinhere

(13,169 posts)
68. My neighbor who lives two doors down from me is a city policeman.
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 12:05 AM
Nov 2015

He is as nice as can be. His family has two dogs and two small children. I know this is anecdotal but I have to believe that not all police are as described in the OP. Personally, I have never had a negative experience with police in my life. But then I am white and I can't know what it's like to be a POC who encounters the police.

And then here is an interesting recent comment from President Obama.

Obama says police are "scapegoated" too often for society's failures.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-says-police-are-scapegoated-too-often-for-societys-failures/

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
76. I would call a cop as a last resort. I also don't like being near them in traffic. They
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 09:24 AM
Nov 2015

are too unpredictable, menacing, unstable and likely to go out of control. Certainly not all, but enough.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
79. Not where I live.
Thu Nov 26, 2015, 11:57 AM
Nov 2015

You must live in some hellhole of some kind.
I've never had any trouble with the police where I live.

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