My brother in Ohio has had it with the Democrats

[maxrandb]

I was visiting for Memorial Day and my brother, a life-long working class blue collar Democrat told me something about Ohio that made me ill.

He said; "You've got to hand it to the Republicans. Kasich won the governor's race by 2 points...but, he and the Republicans governed like he had won by 40 points." "Why give the Dems a majority when they can't do a damn thing with it?"

Had to admit, he has a point.

Yes, the Democrats platform and base is a little more complicated than the Republican's "I hate all liberals and the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat" platform...but I couldn't come up with an answer for him, other than; "well, you have to be the leader of all the people, not just those that agree with you".

That doesn't seem to be working and soon, with enough control of State Legislatures and City Councils, the Republicans will ensure that "those that don't agree with them" have no power to change things.

[RKP5637]

1. Those siding with the republicans will live to regret the day they made

that decision. His lot in life will be akin to working the fields for a very wealthy land baron. There is no sense of equality with the republicans. He will be powerless, his voice muffled, his protest futile falling on deaf ears.

[blkmusclmachine]

2. In other words, true bipartisanship.

n/t

[RKP5637]

3. Yep, probably ... n/t

[NavyDavy]

8. 100% correct

[jtuck004]

30. "... will be akin to working the fields for a very wealthy land baron...will be

powerless, his voice muffled, his protest futile falling on deaf ears."

Will be?

As I look around...awww, never mind.

[RKP5637]

35. Good point and well taken! Many already are in that situation. I recently

had to do a lot of driving through several states and I was amazed at the despair I saw. This, is a nation with half the population in poverty or damn close to it, and one would think the majority of the country was exceptionally wealthy the little attention down and out Americans get. There is a cancer in this country and its growing and growing.

[madashelltoo]

37. AMEN!!!!

[treestar]

4. Does he admire their tactics then?

He wants Democrats to act like bullies too? So he'll switch to Republican because they are tougher? Sounds like the issues don't matter to him. Just how tough the leaders are.

And that is a perception coming from negativity. Republicans say the same thing about Democrats - that they want a socialist, communist totalitarian nanny state that deprives Republicans of their freedom.

[maxrandb]

10. No! He wants Democrats to act like DEMOCRATS!!

and, No, he is not supporting Romney or the repukes. He is simply pointing out that no matter how "slim" a victory the Repukes obtain..THEY TREAT IT LIKE A VICTORY.

If we aren't careful, we are going to end up like Tesio in The Godfather, when he says; "forgive me Godfather, but with you gone, Pete and I will fall under Barzini's thumb...there won't be one place left in Brooklyn where I can hang my hat"

My brother and I want Democrats to FIGHT for the American Middle Class with the same type of gusto the Repukes fight for corporations and the wealthy.

Is that too much to ask?

[RKP5637]

18. No, it is not too much to ask IMO. And that's what the democratic

party used to be about years ago. I think the democrats screwed up the majority when they had it ... I'm still pissed about too big to fail, that war crimes go unpunished, and the shysters in banking / wall street have pretty much gone unpunished, and in fact have been rewarded by the democrats.

[woo me with science]

36. No, it's not too much to ask.

Clearly, asking isn't working very well. There are other forces at work here.

The collusion with Republicans will keep happening until we get the corporate money out of government.

[LiberalFighter]

55. If Democrats are going to act like Democrats

people with Democratic beliefs need to do more than just go vote and complain. Those Democratic elected officials have very little to go on when those Democrats don't get involved in their campaigns or at the local party organizational level.

If all Democratic elected officials hear are from squeaky yammering teabaggers or other Republicans then they are going to be pushed away from Democratic values. We all need to be vocal and be heard instead of being quiet so that the other side drowns us out.

I don't know how anyone got the idea that Democrats in Ohio weren't fighting. Weren't they providing support and other resources to kill SB5?

[HiPointDem]

66. They don't *want* the rank & file involved except in GOTV efforts for preapproved candidates.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

95. Umm, Occupy is anything but "quiet."

Wisconsin protesters were anything but "quiet." And every Dem I know is engaged, whether by putting pressure on elected officials, using social media, writing letters to the editor, donating, volunteering, etc. Problem is, many of our elected Democrats aren't listening. Or they are listening, and don't care since they're bought and paid for by Corporate America.

And if there are weak Democrats so easily influenced by Teabaggers that they'll be "pushed away from Democratic values," they should be NOWHERE near public office. What an absurd suggestion, and one that reinforces the OP: Elected Democrats need to take a fucking stand for traditional Democratic values -- that's why they were elected. Jesus, it's really quite simple.

[TomClash]

5. Which side are you on?

With many Dems, I wonder.

I have a view, but I won't express it here. Not in DU.

[libinnyandia]

6. "Romney Democrats" will regret voting for him. They will be destroyed by him.

[FarLeftFist]

7. Yeah, and the same way they govern like they won by 40 points is the same way they destroy like it.

[Warpy]

9. The lege and the governor have been acting illegally

and claiming super majorities where there have been none on key votes. That the Democrats in Ohio have been supine is a gross understatement. This should be starting to churn through the courts even now.

I don't blame your brother, but what the hell is he going to do? Vote for the enemy? Not vote and let the enemy vote all the Democrats out? Move?

Kasich and the lege Republicans should be on their way to jail, not in office. That's not going to happen until and unless people start to stand up to them.

[HiPointDem]

67. Why don't the democrats stand up to them, I believe is what the brother is asking. He's voted

for them, and they still don't stand up.

If nothing can be done until "the people start to stand up," what's the point of having a Party organization?

[Art_from_Ark]

11. So, in other words,

Your brother doesn't like what the Republicans do, but he likes the way they do it?

[Iggo]

45. That is exactly correct.

[aquart]

97. He prefers totalitarian rule to the messiness of democracy?

And the OP couldn't come up with an answer to that?

[Canuckistanian]

12. Does he really admire the GOP's scorched-earth tactics?

I mean, do Dems have to be mean, vicious and ruthless to get his respect?

Despite their heartless agenda, the Repubs REALLY know how to organize, get their message out and manipulate people who are are scared - but THEY'RE the ones scaring the low-information voters.

But do Dems NEED to follow such an extreme strategy in order to get votes?

But one thing I do agree on. Dems in power DO need to assert themselves AND remind the voters why they were voted in - by taking ACTION sometimes and bypassing "compromise" when it seems futile. And trusting that their mandate will ALLOW that.

[maxrandb]

14. What a ridiculous post

My brother and I simply want Democrats to fight for the Middle Class with the same type of gusto the Repukes use to fight for corporations and the wealthy.

and yes, a little more ruthlessness, meaness and visciousness would be a sharp contrast to "smiling while the Repukes are kicking the Dems teeth in"

[Canuckistanian]

19. Well, yes, I can see that

I've often been astounded at the lack of responses from Dems to the new extremism of the Right.

But using the same Rovian dirty tricks? No.

[Skittles]

38. CORRECT

I hear you; ABSOLUTELY

[progressivebydesign]

41. And so with a republican majority in Congress...

..how is this going to be accomplished, exactly? I'm sorry that your Brother feels that way, but the last time we had a jerk-off that acted like he had a mandate, destroyed America with it. And it didn't turn out well for anyone but the 1% and lots of people in India and China who are enjoying a growing middle and upper class.

So I don't really undertand his issue here. Democrats were supposed to shove everything down everyone else's throats? Does he realize how much as been accomplished DESPITE the Republican blockade, the tainted media, and dirty tricks? Why in the world would he be impressed by bullies? Want to guarantee that Democrats never win again? Then act like republican bullies. Sounds more like he is just painfully unaware of what has been accomplished, without resorting to scorched Earth policies.

[JDPriestly]

61. A Democratic Congress didn't stop GWB. Not at all.

[JDPriestly]

60. Strong, resolute and forceful, those are the words for how Obama should

fight for the middle class and for those who are poor.

For example, when Wisconsin teachers and firemen and other public employees were fighting for the right to be represented by a union, Obama should have strongly, resolutely and forcefully traveled to Wisconsin and stood on their side.

No question. And if he really couldn't show up in Wisconsin, he should have spoken strongly, often, resolutely and forcefully for the right of public employees to have unions.

I think he gave a couple of good, but not really strong speeches from D.C.

In fact, I don't think Obama supports unions for public employees all that much. Look what his Education Department has tried to do to public schools. Horrors!

We Democrats have to be strong, resolute and forceful. There is nothing shameful about approaching politics with that kind of character.

[Tarheel_Dem]

76. Do you have any idea the number of middle class Americans who don't belong to a union?

I'm not union bashing, but give it a rest. Obama's not a union boss, he's the President of the United States. Can you explain to us how 40% of WI union households plan to vote for Scott Walker's reelection? Is that the fault of union organizers, or is that also Pres. Obama's fault?

People do vote against their interests. It happens all the time. Besides, I thought the conversation was about OH Democrats.

[JDPriestly]

88. The Democratic Party is traditionally the party of unions.

Unions are what made and make the middle class possible. Unions fought for a minimum wage, higher wages, a 40 hour week and other workers' rights of all kinds.

As unions have declined, so has the American middle class.

That is why, if Obama is to claim to be on the side of the middle class, he needs to back unions.

Wisconsin started the whole drive against ending unions rights for public employees.

Ohio's Republicans (and others) followed suit and were defeated in a referendum fought hard by union members and other Democrats.

So that is why Wisconsin is relevant. It started the backlash against the conservative anti-union movement. And Obama really needs to get behind protecting unions -- much more actively behind protecting the right to organize not just by workers in private industry but also by workers in public employment.

[Tarheel_Dem]

92. This president has been as strong on unions as any other modern day Democratic Pres has.

And if we're gonna be completely honest, the "conservative anti-union backlash" wouldn't have been necessary had unions not been tricked, by folks like you & Ed Schultz, into thinking that Democrats weren't working in their best interest.

"Unions" actually endorsed Scott Walker, and as I've stated before, 40% of union households plan to vote for his reelection. The fact that he turned on them as soon as he was sworn in, notwithstanding, they actually endorsed him. You seem fixated on Pres. Obama fixing all that ails unions. Union membership didn't begin its decline under Pres. Obama. Isn't it the job of union bosses/organizers to increase their membership?

I don't dare underplay the significance of unions and what they've meant to the establishment of the middle class, but you seem to be under some misapprehension about the duties of the POTUS. As I told you in another thread, you seem obsessed with style much moreso than substance. Just because this president doesn't do breathless, spittle laced, redfaced, foam-at-the-mouth stump speeches like a Bernie Sanders, you figure he isn't doing enough. That's complete & utter bullshit.

[Selatius]

94. Hey, Bernie Sanders doesn't make stump speeches like that.

He's just very left wing in what he believes in, and that's what won him the working class vote in Vermont, but he doesn't make speeches like that. He simply calls a spade, a spade. Sheesh.

[Tarheel_Dem]

102. Okay, let's substitute the "stump" for the Senate floor. I've seen Bernie in action. Sheesh!

[Selatius]

105. "spittle-laced"? Really? nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

107. Look, I love Bernie as much as the next guy, but he's a very animated and passionate speaker.

That's all. It's his "style".

[JDPriestly]

100. I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I have posted my bona fides. That's it.

[Tarheel_Dem]

104. Again, I can only take your word for it.

[Bluenorthwest]

110. What a dishonest characterization of Senator Sanders, really extreme rhetoric you are

pushing there. Spittle laced, red faced, foam at the mouth? Holy shit, the lack of accuracy coupled with the venom of your post is Rove worthy.

[NavyDavy]

13. I hate people who sit there and complain about the Dems, without once mentioning

the dirty, bully, unethical (but legal) tactics to stop any good bills, oversights or so called "socialist" programs from ever getting anywhere close to becoming laws........Just My Opinion!

[EFerrari]

23. You have a point. But, when leadership keeps giving you the same rationale for its failure,

they may be telling the truth but it still makes them bad leaders.

[savalez]

24. +1

[JDPriestly]

62. Obama has only used the veto twice in his presidency.

If the Republican Congress really posed such a hurdle for him, I would expect him to pose more of a problem for them -- by wielding his veto.

Here is the record regarding the use of the veto by various presidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes

[pscot]

64. Lowest number of vetos since Warren G. Harding

To some, that mght suggest Congress is giving him just what he wants.

[woo me with science]

84. +100000 It might,

mightn't it?

Wake the hell up, America. Occupy.

[RockaFowler]

96. But most of the bills haven't passed the Senate

Nothing for him to veto then

[kenny blankenship]

15. "Keep hoping they'll change" you can tell him this.

He may reply, "Spit in one hand and wish in the other, and see which one fills up first". But that would make him a left of the left "purist" - or worse, an FDR Democrat.

[Gregorian]

16. It's an illusion, if I may say so.

We're fighting an uphill battle. The Republicans are not.

It's about money. Does the big money funnel into the things that Democrats want? How many military contractors are liberal? I think that's a fair question to answer without much knowledge.

How many lobbyists are pounding on Democrat's doors to donate towards legislation that promotes peace, or fewer carbon emissions?

And unfortunately this is the dilemma Democrats face. It's no different than how they dynamite the economy and then leave the train wreck for Democrats to clean up, AND for which to take the blame.

Am I being naive? It seems I'm not too far off the mark.

[EFerrari]

28. I recently found out that KBR was a huge backer of LBJ when it was still Brown & Root.

And that's why LBJ was a genius. He figured out a way to capture the power and the money and *that* is how he became the master of the Senate eventually. He lied and cheated and blackmailed his way to passing the most important social legislation of my lifetime. There was nothing diffident about that man.

[Gregorian]

31. Why do you think that was the case? Vietnam?

Could it be that the mere fact that he was sitting during a war resulted in an ability that other Dems may not have today.

Or that Dems really are stupid today. After all, times are quite different. Things are far more organized against us.


And hello!

[EFerrari]

33. He hooked their support when he was a Congressman.

I think it was just his character. He came from nothing and he didn't want to leave with nothing. He was about as ruthless as they come and we could use about five of him right now, imo, even considering all that comes with someone like that. On balance, his domestic program preserved the New Deal for another generation and even expanded it for many Americans.

[Gregorian]

39. I still think Obama has that kind of character.

LBJ was quite an enigma. I love that kind of strength. The kind that can overcome self. The bravery to look inward and change if necessary. I don't like the testosterone, but something forceful has to be done now. Forceful is the wrong word. You nailed it. An FDR/LBJ charisma.

I just want to add that this isn't idle dreaming. The disasters that are unfolding in the world right now are fruitful ground for productivity, if one knows what to do with it. Getting off fossil fuels could easily be our modern day New Deal. We don't need to fire another gun.

[coalition_unwilling]

43. EFerrari, I agree with you 99.99999% of the time but on this I have to disagree. LBJ may

bave been 'ruthless,' but when the rubber hit the road and Kissinger and Nixon used back-channels to undermine the Paris Peace Talks in 1968, LBJ knew about their treason (intecepted in wiretaps) and did NOTHING to stop it. That to me marks a crucial chink in his supposedly ruthless armor. Nixon and Kissinger should both have been prosecuted for treason in 1968 and a ruthless leader would have made it happen.

Oh well. Just my take on LBJ.

[EFerrari]

47. You are right about that.

And to tell you the truth, after hearing about his backing by KBR (or, BR at the time), now I wonder how much that had to do with his handling of the war. I don't buy that he felt or was trapped by the war itself. There is more or as my aunt says, there is a cat locked in a closet here somewhere (aqui hay gato encerrado).

[coalition_unwilling]

59. Brown & Root made a mint off defense contracts during the Vietnam War. Can't remember

exactly, but I think they may have been the pirmary contractor for the huge naval base at Cam Ranh Bay.

The tape recordings of LBJ and Senator Richard Russell suggest that LBJ did feel himself 'trapped' in a war that he knew he could not win but also knew he could not afford politically to lose. If true, that again argues against his 'ruthlessnes' on one level, even as it makes him seem less admirable as a leader. (Same goes for Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, I suppose, who knew as early as 1966 that we could not win but did not bother to tell LBJ or his advisors.)

[HiPointDem]

70. Always had a soft spot for LBJ, despite Vietnam. He seemed human and genuine, warts & all.

Whereas a lot of modern pols, like Romney, seem like they were mass produced on the Stepford assembly line.

[JDPriestly]

75. I read a book about Halliburton, maybe The Halliburton Story that suggested that Johnson

did a lot of favors that brought financial gain to Brown and Root, a predecessor of Halliburton. Also, the author claimed that Brown and Root/Halliburton paved a lot of airfields in Vietnam. I have not heard that story anywhere else.

Apparently, Johnson helped Brown and Root, then pretty much just a cement company, get a government contract to build a dam, and Brown and Root helped Johnson in return.

He did so much for civil rights but was very corrupt on another level.

[Mc Mike]

89. Maybe Dan Briody's 'The Halliburton Agenda'.

Last edited Tue May 29, 2012, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Briody reported that:

Johnson's deal with Herman Brown freed the Texas delegation to oppose the virulently anti-union John N. Garner, and back FDR in '40 instead, which gave freshman New Dealer Rep. Johnson leverage to win navy contracts for the Browns from Prez Roosevelt (p. 77).

The break between Brown and Johnson came when Johnson campaigned against Brown's antilabor national right-to-work legislation and also accepted the vp slot, in '60, (pp. 149 -50) after being outmaneuvered by the MA machine.

Halliburton ate Brown and Root (147) and Brown croaked (151) in '62.

Subsidiary B & R joined 3 other construction conglomerates to form a group that called themselves RMK-BRJ, in '65, which did $2 billion worth of work in Vietnam, in cost-plus contracts that B&R got 20% of. 40% of the money was stolen, $5 million was wasted in the first year of work in the country. They did 97% of the construction work in Vietnam during their 7 years of contracts. They built roads, cities, pipelines, hospitals, warehouses, bases, jetways in Da Nang, Chulai, Phangrang. (164-5.) (Seems to me that a stellar way to smuggle drugs is to do a ton of construction work on operating air-fields and their warehouses, but Briody didn't say that.)

George Brown was targeted by anti-Viet war protestors in '71, who handed him a 'special award' at a U of TX alumni honors ceremony held on his behalf -- they 'awarded' him a picture of the infamous tiger cages that were used for prison cells. Foreshadows KBR' s contract 30 years later to build GITMO prison in Cuba (pp. 166-7).



L'il bush era Halliburton KBR caused the deaths of at least 18 US soldiers and marines, electrocuted in war-zone base showers, by faulty wiring of water heaters in a cost plus contract. (Death toll as of '09, not final.) Like Blackwater-Xe-Academi, Halliburton is involved in a child sex slave trafficking scandal (source Chicago Trib 12-27-05, not blowhard Bircher A. Jones), a real one unlike O'Keefe's ACORN fake.

Tip O'Neill said Johnson was Sam Rayburn's protege, like O'Neill was John McCormack's (Boston-Austin axis), at 'The Board of Education' meetings. Which were held in the first floor of the Capitol, behind the members' dining room. Meetings were a tradition from Speaker Nick Longworth and John Nance Garner. (from O'Neill's 'Man of the House', p. 127.) That's where Johnson got his legislative savvy and connections. Johnson broke against Garner and Brown, for FDR, JFK, and labor. His insider knowledge of the Legislative branch helped him get things done as prez, as much as the Dem leg. majorities did.

MI complex contractors took America to the cleaners on Vietnam, a war which Johnson was forced to prosecute after late Nov. of '63. He used the situation to tell the big money people 'We have to give the American people something, or they'll slit your throats.' This resulted in Civil Rights, Great Society, Medicare, etc. They weren't a bribe and distraction, like Nixon's EPA and Cultural Preservation Act, but done with the same motivating factor.

[JDPriestly]

99. Thanks. That's the book. It's on my shelf.

[Mc Mike]

103. My page #'s are all from the paperback ed. Hope they work out if you have hard cover.

I'd like to mention as a blast from the past to you, JDP:

"The nuns I'll see. But not the bishops. They all vote republican" -- JFK, from 'Man of the House', p 170 (hard cover.)

Seems especially prescient, given the current repug\bishop alliance vs. Prez. O., Women's Rights, Nuns, Health Care, the girl scouts, etc.

[JDPriestly]

74. You should see the film, The Longeria Affair. It recounts

an interesting aspect of the Johnson story.

[HiPointDem]

68. Money is indeed the issue, but it doesn't flow just to R's.

[xchrom]

17. Sad to see the point that your brother fall on deaf ears.

Perhaps more Free Trade deals, Luke warm support for unions(like teachers), etc - might some day get their attention.

But some how I doubt it.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

82. There is, of course, another wage-lowering, anti-union, "free-trade" agreement in the works.

[doc03]

20. To quote Rush Limbaugh "Compromise, we don't compromise

we won."

[jade3000]

29. Another winner from Rush

"'Gotta bring people together,' my ass! We have got to defeat liberals"

I do wish that Dems would have a little more backbone. Not like Rush's bombastic ridiculousness -- I just want to see them follow through on promises to their constituents, nationally, in particular the working class, poor, and people of color. Is that too much to ask?

[doc03]

21. If the Republicans take the Senate watch how fast

they get rid of the filibuster.

[oldernwiser]

54. Why would you say that?

The filibuster - or more accurately the threat of a filibuster - is the best tool the Republicans have ever had. They use it to both stall legislation and blow the blame back to Democrats as a show of their ineffectiveness. The media catches the sensationalism of the ineffectiveness and that's what people hear.

Democrats haven't been as totally obstructionist as the Republicans of late, but they are guilty of using the same tactics.

[doc03]

56. Well the Republicans even as a minority have effectively shut down

the Obama Administration. If they gain the majority you can bet no Democratic minority will shut them down. If they can they will change the filibuster rules.

[phleshdef]

22. Republicans bully their way through shit. Its in their nature. Most people of a liberal nature...

...or even just moderately liberal nature, doesn't. Its a side effect of being interested in fairness and statesmanship and decency. There are of course exceptions to this, but it seems to be a pretty safe generalization for the most part.

[RKP5637]

32. That's often what I think too. The assholes and bullies became

republicans and the more decent became democrats. There are exceptions, but in general, lies, cheating, manipulation, bullying and the like all come naturally to republicans.

[southernyankeebelle]

25. We only have one vote each. Republicans are doing the best to take that away from us.

I don't know what the solution is. this system is broken and no one wins.

[sendero]

26. Hes about 3 years behind me..

... but the sentiments are basically the same. The Democrats, even when they have power, come to the gunfight with a knife every time. It's like they want to lose. I'm convinced that they do (want to lose) it's all a dog and pony good cop bad cop show.

I'm done with it.

[progressivebydesign]

42. where can we send the Romney bumper sticker for your car? n/t

[sendero]

48. Where can we send.

.. the drooling moron sticker for yours? It's amazing how many people still don't get it. Like you.

[HiPointDem]

69. That tack won't keep working, you know. Wise up.

[unkachuck]

27. "...when they can't do a damn thing with it?"

....when they WON'T do a damn thing with it....they're all working for the same corporations....I share your brothers' sentiments completely....

....sometimes things have to get a lot worse before things can get better....sometimes people won't change or let go of even the most toxic of situations until they have absolutely no alternative....

[RKP5637]

34. Yep, quite true, they all work for the same corporations and are

basically bribed by the same. I know this sounds horrible to say, but sometimes I think a Great Depression under Bush might have cured this countries illness. The way it is, I fear we're going down the same path again.

I agree so much with what you said, "....sometimes things have to get a lot worse before things can get better....sometimes people won't change or let go of even the most toxic of situations until they have absolutely no alternative...."

[coalition_unwilling]

40. So I guess your brother is just fine with a system where 1% control 40% of the

wealth and 10% control 80% of the wealth.

I'm assuming your brother is neither a !%er nor a 10%er. Maybe he expects admission into one of those two strata soon?

Otherwise, he surely understands that the Repigs are his mortal enemy? One can admire an enemy's ruthlessness while still recongizing an enemy. Jeesh.

[progressivebydesign]

44. x1,000. n/t

[jeff47]

51. When both parties lead to that same end,

why do you expect him to see a difference?

We need to elect better Democrats.

[HiPointDem]

71. Yeah, & that situation came into being all because of the Republicans, and changes when D's

take office. uh-huh.

[coalition_unwilling]

83. The obscene concentrations of wealth began to accelerate starting with

Reagan's first term. There is certainly blame a-plenty for both Dems (especially the DLC\Blue Dog variety) and Repigs, but I really place the lion's share of blame with the Repigs.

It does change (at least at the margins) when Dems who believe in a policy of full employment, a robust safety net and a truly progressive tax system hold power. When is the last time one of those Dems held the White House? Um, I'm thinking LBJ (so roughly 50 years ago). That's not to say we can't get back there but we certainly won't get back there with Repigs at the helm.

[HiPointDem]

86. There have been several Democratic Presidents since LBJ, so not sure what you're suggesting

people do.

[coalition_unwilling]

90. Don't vote or support Repigs for one thing. Even a centrist Dem like

Obama is vastly preferable for workers to a vampire capitalist like Romney.

But I honestly am at a loss for proactive measures people can take, aside from the admittedly quixotic gesture of supporting one's local Occupy movement.

[maxrandb]

91. No, neither of us

sons of JFK Democrats and Grandsons of a man who was put in the hospital for organizing Coal Miners in Corning, OH ARE FINE WITH IT.

Jesus H Christ! I think what pisses some of you off here to the point of attacking me is that my brother is "effing" right!

At least the god damn Republicans believe what the "eff" they say. They're so convinced that their policies are right, and those that disagree are either ignorant, or anti-American, that when they win a small victory they cram their ignorant policies and beliefs down our throats.

Maybe the Dem just don't believe in their own policies, or maybe they don't give a "eff", but this God Damn election is so God Damned important that they very survival of the gains that Democrats worked so hard for are at stake.

Social Security - Gone!
Medicare - Gone!
Labor rights - Gone!
Social Safety Net - Gone!
Public Education - Gone!

And please, don't tell me how the Republicans would NEVER touch Social Security, Medicare or Public Education out of fear. Their "effing" "ruthless" tactics are specifically designed to eliminate anyone that can stand in their way. They'll do it by either cramming shit down our throats while their corporate master spend billions to tell us "it's good for us", or, they'll just legislate the people opposed to them out of their right to vote.

so YES!!!!! Those tactics should be fought as ruthlessly, meanly and viciously as possible!

[coalition_unwilling]

98. I apologize if I misconstrued your OP. I thought your brother was expressing

Last edited Tue May 29, 2012, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

a preference for the Repigs in this election but he may have merely been expressing his admiration for their tactical ruthlessness. If so, please accept my apologies.

As we discovered to our dismay in Obama's first 100 days, the Dems have a big tent that includes leftists like Barbara Lee and Dennis Kucinich but also conservatives like some of the Blue Dogs who were defeated in the 2010 mid-terms. That big tent makes party discipline and hence governance problematic.

I certainly was not attacking you (at least in my own mind I wasn't). I may have been taking a shot at your brother b/c I misunderstood his position.

[Harmony Blue]

46. I think your brother's opinion may be swayed

over the summer.

I suspect a series of events will trigger a huge shock to the entire nation (a positive one).

[HiPointDem]

72. hint?

[Harmony Blue]

93. Basically, the momentum will shift dramatically

this summer will be huge for Democrats.

[progressoid]

49. Yeah, I feel his pain. n/t

[U4ikLefty]

50. When the Democrats show the balls of Occupy then we may get somewhere.

Until then we will have nothing in the political sphere as working-class (never mentioned) or God-forbid poor/homeless (also never mentioned) individuals.

Good God, imagine if the Dems would get on board with the 99%...what that would mean in this country. Will never happen with all the $$$ in their faces. They can still pretend. We will continue to suck it up...how sad.

Personally, I'm not waiting for that day...nothing gets done until the PEOPLE get organized. Here we are!!!

[Iliyah]

63. And the balls of the Government have been working

yea, slowly, but thats democracy. It works slowly, takes years sometimes.

2010 elections put a stop, and the states that voted repugs or not did vote at all, therego bsto it is. Even voting seems like a priveledge now. I don't go back.

Military, we are secured.

[U4ikLefty]

65. That is the Kabuki theater of democracy.

The Dems pretend to care about the "middle class" while ignoring the working-class or the poor & homeless. Hell, they hardly mention the working class, the poor, or the homeless.

It is not the Repugs that are our only enemies, the entire political class has (for along time) ignored us who are working class or poor.

Here is a drinking game for ya. Next time Obama gives a major speech and mentions "homeless" or "working class" take a drink....you will be sober after it all ends. That will tell ya all you need to know.

[woo me with science]

85. Thank you. It is a problem of money and purchased government, not shyness.

I get so tired of people claiming that Democrats are just too shy or scared or somehow lack the personality or assertiveness to do these things.

There is only one reason they don't do these things.

Follow the damned money. These betrayals will continue until we get the corporate money out of politics.

Occupy.

[U4ikLefty]

77. My correction, I should have said "balls & ovaries"

My sexism was showing...apoligies to all the sisters who fight (you rock!!!).

[ladym55]

52. Some thoughts on Ohio Dems

First, when Strickland won in 2006, the Republicans did not control the State Senate and held a slim majority in the House. So between 2006 and 2010, the House passed legislation, and it went to the Senate to die. State reps regularly expressed frustration at how few bills actually passed. Of course, few Ohioans knew that because the "great minds" of Ohio news ... oops ... forgot to cover that.

We had some incredibly talented and hard-working state reps trying really hard to reform education finance. They got swept out in the 2010 tide. All of their work was discarded.

The one thing I do blame the Dems for ... The Republicans wanted a bipartisan redistricting, and we said no because we got too full of ourselves. We didn't think the voters' memories were so short. Now Ohio is a disaster because redistricting has made life awesome for Republicans and terrible for constituents across the state. State reps find districts drawn specifically over multiple counties to include just the right blend to ensure Republican victory.

I get frustrated with Ohio Dems, too, but the alternative is just too awful. And there are lots of good Dems in the trenches.

Kasich is a bully, but he could BE a bully because the Republicans control both houses. Strickland never had that luxury. Republicans are awesome at obstruction, and they don't give a damn about destroying people or communities. For them, it's all about power and self gain.

[kiranon]

53. Under Mussolini the trains ran on time but

is that what is most important? Sell your soul and your freedom for a train ticket? The Republicans hope ordinary Americans will.

[HiPointDem]

73. after being repeatedly dispossessed, they will. and that's what's happening.

[GarroHorus]

57. No offense

Your brother is being a whiner.

[Historic NY]

58. Let him know in NY people in my county are turning against little Napoleon..

our county executive even the Democrats & Republican on the legislature are fed up with his antics.

[Tarheel_Dem]

78. Then your brother should follow his heart. Oh, and nice way of slipping in some 3rd party....

bullshit advocacy on the sly. This is just the latest version of "Gore=Bush", cloaked in "disillusionment". These "disillusioned" threads are always sure to bring them scurrying from every corner. Good luck to you & your brother.

[TheKentuckian]

79. There was no mention of supporting the Republicans or advocating a third party

You invented what you wanted to argue here.

Ugly tactic. It seems some see the brother's point all too well but also take to aiming for the same targets.

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. "some see the brother's point all too well". Of course they do, it's the fuckin' internet.

We don't know who these people are, or the people relating these "stories". That's the beauty of the internet, it allows for anonymity. We can make up all kinds of claims and invent tall tales on the internet.

And speaking of "ugly tactics"? Look no further than the o.p.

[HiPointDem]

87. You're saying the poster registered in 2002 just to say in 2012 that R's fight harder than D's?

In order to diss the D's?

sounds like a stretch to me.

and on edit: even more so when i go back & look at past posts by the same poster.

[brush]

80.

[TBF]

101. Your concern is noted. nt

[fascisthunter]

106. I think Those who attack you and your brother

actually KNOW the Democratic Party's platform has been compromised by conservatives/corporate/anti-populists... and they don't want ANYONE here pointing it out. Because then if it's pointed out, and enough folks figure what's going on, something might get actually done about it, so attack ANYTHING that speaks honestly about the deterioration of Democratic Party ideals which have been for the most part, ideologically left wing. Without a true left, there is no holding back the right .

[maxrandb]

113. It has been proven REPEATEDLY that the policies of the Repuke don't work

but, "by-God", they are true "effing" believers. When is the last time you've heard a Repuke admit that they've been wrong about anything? When was the last time a Repuke apologized for anything?

The bastards win a slim election, and then they try to step on the throat of their opponents.

I truly believe that the policies of the Democrats are the right course for this country, and I'm willing to say it's not enough to beat these current crop of asshat Repukes...they need to be so completely defeated that they are forever consigned to the furthest margins of power.

They'll be plenty of time for healing after we stomp a festering hole in these rat bastards.

[karynnj]

108. The reason is easy to state - we build programs, they end them

To pass legislation starting something new, you need a super majority almost everywhere. For the Republicans to end or cut things is easy. Most programs needed money allocated each year. With a simple majority - if united - they can prevent the allocation of funding.

Not to mention, more significant than the amount Kasich won by is the composition of the legislature.

[nashville_brook]

109. your brother has had it with The Third Way "dems" -- we have to take our party back

while there's still something to salvage.

[H2O Man]

111. "My Brother the Car."

[maxrandb]

112. Wasn't that a Disney Movie? n/t