To have been clearer, should Chris Hayes have quoted Kissinger's famous definition of soldiers,

[ProgressiveEconomist]

as relayed by Al Haig to Bob Woodward--

"Military men are dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy",

(See http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Military ).

IMO the former Secretary of State's words are what Chris Hayes may have had in mind when on his MSNBC show he warned about glorifying war. I believe many of the people who are denouncing Chris Hayes for objecting to the use of the word "hero" for every military casualty secretly share Kissinger's cynicism and contempt for our now all-"volunteer" military forces.

IMO, as long as it's somebody else's child who can't find a job and ends up in Iraq, Afganistan, Iraq, Syria, or Libya, plenty of pols and TV personalities are glad to pay lip service to "heroes".

WHAT'S YOUR OPINION?

[UTUSN]

1. "child who can't find a job" - That's exactly one of the main motives for enlisting

Charlie RANGEL, who was one of my main heroes for decades, was one of the few who said that the large number of minorities in the military is due to lack of school and jobs.

Plus, the quoted motive is also behind who are the many veterans who end up homeless.

[Egalitarian Thug]

6. Eliminating the draft necessitated the economic draft.

Can't keep the money extraction machine going without the fodder.

[rustydog]

2. It is faux rage, A conservative assault tactic, just like "Why do you hate America?"

they think they own Jesus, the American flag and patriotism

The word hero is used to describe someone who unselfishly surrenders his life to try to save the lives of comrades. (a just and rightful use of the title hero.)
Hero is also used to elevate a single moms status, a football player who makes a touchdown or levels the quarterback is a hero, a person brutally beaten is a brave hero...
The word has been cheapened and overused.

I think Chris Hayes was on track and ended his comment with the words I may be wrong...

[ProgressiveEconomist]

5. I think Hayes was foolish to allow his observation to be framed

as an attack on "heros".

I haven't seen the video of Hayes's MSNBC segment, but I can't imagine his not intending to decry the glorification of war by millions of Americans who literally have no "skin" in the game. I think Hayes could cave gotten his point across much much better wtihout focusing attention on the word "hero."

But he may have unintentionally have ginned up a teachable moment for jingoistic Americans, if Hayes is not silenced by MSNBC execs and gets a chance3 to re-frame at length exactly what he meant.

[jberryhill]

3. "as relayed by"?

Try again. Woodward quotes Haig as attributing the line to Kissinger. I have no doubt that Haig would attribute such a view to Kissinger.

This is the Al Haig who also could not read the sequence of presidential succession in the Constitution.

If you want to counter a quote which a person made on national television, then an attribution by one person in relation to a private conversation with a person he despised is pretty thin sauce.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

8. Did Kissinger ever DENY he said it, or orrer an alternaive definition?

I think the alleged quote became famous in large part because millions of people imagined they hear Kissinger himself enenciate the wrds in his distinctive heavily-accented Teutonic voice.

In any case, it's out there. It's in wikipedia. Try to edit it out of Wikipedia and see what happens.

[Enrique]

4. great point

yes, I heard the same thing and I agree. When I hear right-wingers being overly sentimental about "the troops" I often smell a rat. I don't think it's respect at all in a lot of cases, I think it is Kissinger's cynicism.

[UTUSN]

7. Yip, CHEENEE's blatant "help is on the way" is still stuck in my craw. Plus,

seeing those Medal of Honor dudes standing on Shrub's t.v. stage with their MEDALS on in a totally political stunt. The medals have NO BUSINESS as political props.

[brewens]

9. They definitely treat military men as in the alleged Kissinger quote. Iraq was

all about money. Looting the treasury to make Dick Cheney and his allies wealthier than they already were. I don't believe for a second that transport planes full of cash disappeared. Someone knows who has all that money stashed.

I don't blame kids that joined up, thinking they were doing the right thing. We have a lot in the military that are "all in" on us being on a crusade, hoping to wipe out Islam and take over all the oil resources. They are just as bad as Cheney. "Stupid animals" for falling for it.

I listened to an electrical wholesaler drinking one night at the start of the Iraq war. He said he was a Bush supporter and a "Roman". "I'm talking empire! I say we just take it (the oil)." An example of a successful dumbass. He got himself fired from one electrical distributor over drinking and abusing his company credit card. I could still shoot my sisters boss for helping him hook-up with another company. Right-wing assholes stick together though. Someone better deserved that opportunity.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. Is there much to be gained by attacking Kissinger these days?

I don't hear him held up as an conservative icon much. I don't see how this would help Hayes - all the present-day people who are attacking him would just have said "Kissinger was wrong too". It doesn't matter if they think that or not - unless you have people from this century saying what Kissinger said, going after someone from 40 years ago is not that productive. It's like people don't try to make Nixon the symbol of the Republicans any more - a generation and a half later, there's not much mileage in it.

[pansypoo53219]

11. NPR's On The Media had a story on how to spot bullshit stories.

i think the word 'outrage' was one of the bullshit clues.

[Mnemosyne]

12. Kissinger = War Criminal, whether he ever made the statement or not. nt