Is there any evidence this is tied to international terrorism?

[Drunken Irishman]

...you'd think if that was the case, it would've been leaked by now. We knew within hours that ISIS was responsible for Paris. Yet nothing here.

There is no question this is terrorism - just as the attack in Colorado Springs last Friday was. But how we go forward will depend on whether it's domestic or international.

Sure, this attack might be religiously driven. But that doesn't make it ISIS or al-Qaeda. I mean, terrorism is generally rooted in ideological or religious beliefs anyway, right?

The difference, I guess, is that these people have foreign names. It sounds like at least the main suspect is a U.S. citizen, so, again, domestic it would seem.

But that name is something that changes perception. It's interesting watching the outcry toward this, demanding we further erode the rights of Muslims, even using this to attack Syrian refugees (ridiculous) compared to much of what we saw last week with Colorado Springs.

Religious fundamentalism IS a threat to the United States. But so is political extremism.

I just wish we were more aggressive toward the latter as we are toward the former instead of writing it off as always just being a lone wolf or a disturbed individual.

[ManiacJoe]

1. Currently there is no reported tie to international terrorism.

Currently there is no indication that this is domestic terrorism either.
Since the motive is currently unknown, there can be no claim of terrorism since that claim would require knowing the motive of the attack.

[yeoman6987]

2. I just wonder if it was a true terrorism. We would have had other incidences throughout the country

I guess Georgia had a shooting today but not sure if it was a classified a terror attack. I think if ISIS or whatever group doesn't take responsibility then it is POSSIBLE that it was a stand alone group that may or may not be terrorists. Over the next few days we will have more then enough information to digest and figure out.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. I do think that last part is true...

But it's been a long time since the attack started. It doesn't generally take this long to classify it a terrorist attack, especially one of international nature, if it is, in fact, one. We'll see, though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. This is why I do not play the guessing game anymore

and when I posed the SPECULATION that this was internal and could be RW, I labelled as such.

The speculation is wild though... and at this point quite entertaining, if at times I want to hit my head on the wall.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. It's amazing watching people state it's clearly something...

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. And the person I played that game with

is sure as hell this is ISIS and how the RW will use this. So I said, if this is INTERNAL they will try to bury it very fast.

I have covered enough breaking news situations to know that you go with what you get from law enforcement, which at times will be contradicted in the next update, ergo you time stamp the damn things. Every so often you put out what is known for sure.

In time, and this will take at least 72 hours, we will know the motive.

For multiple personal reasons I am leaning in one direction of what I think this may be... but I will not say what it is... not the egg on face... nope, it is plainly panic inducing and irresponsible. Nor, to be honest, it is useful in any way.

14 people are dead, 17 are injured, this created a panic... and the short of it is... we have zero motive at the moment.

He also confirmed two .223 and two side arms, unknown caliber's... and 3 explosive devices at the site.

20 minutes, and that and two names, that's it.

Though I was impressed, 4 minutes to initial PD unit and 15 to first medical evacuation... that impressed me.

[bettyellen]

5. there's speculation he has been recently radicalized by his Saudi wife....

[Drunken Irishman]

7. Even still, that doesn't make it international terrorism.

Or ISIS related. It just makes it a religious nut job.

[bettyellen]

19. Well if Isis is calling on American Muslims to attack from within, and he watched those videos....

I would be hard pressed to say it wasn't Isis related. And his wife is a Saudi national, so there is that.
A six month old baby- wow, she had to hate a lot to do this. There's a horrible rumor the two were wearing GoPro cameras.
I hope not. Even if he got a lay off notice, if he watched the videos it could be related to Isis. They are all miserable nuts.

[Yorktown]

8. Religious fundamentalism is political extremism.

And, for western democracies as a whole, religious fundamentalism (mostly Islam, with some PP-style evangelicals in the US) is currently a more present danger than purely political extremism.

[davidn3600]

10. My guess is they are "lone wolves" who likely sympathized with terror groups

That's my guess right now.

I don't think it's necessarily "workplace violence," because I don't know if I ever heard of a case where a disgruntled worker who walks out and then walks back in with partners to shoot up the place. That just doesn't make sense.

It makes more sense that these two were lone wolves who felt inspired by ISIS or some other terror group. That wouldn't be odd. ISIS puts a lot of time and effort in their internet propaganda. Lone wolves are probably more scary from a law enforcement perspective because they are difficult to track. They won't be on any watch list.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. I think that's probably the most likely situation.

[spinbaby]

37. Most likely explanation nt

[Dorian Gray]

43. Yeah

Disgruntled worker AND lone wolf ISIS sympathizer.

How do you do this when you have a six month only baby at home? Where is that baby now? Poor thing?

And I can't imagine the agony that the families of the victims are going through.

And the terror the victims (both dead and alive!) felt.

So horrible all around.

Change gun laws.

[randys1]

51. Wanna DRASTICALLY curtail guns in America? Have a few ISIS or any random Black folks

get their hands on these kind of weapons and start shooting white people.

Watch the gun laws fly...

[Dorian Gray]

52. We will see

That there are laws against the government even studying gun violence because of lobbying by the NRA boggles my mind.

UGH UGH UGH.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

49. Agreed. I think it's similar to the Boston brothers. nt

[flamingdem]

11. Think about how he went to Saudi Arabia and how he married the Saudi

who later shot up a room full of innocents with him.

Where does anyone say he left the party angry? I only read that he left the party.

This is probably more jihad, the Saudi kind, than postalism. He killed where he knew the territory and perhaps some gripes made it easier to off humans.

[Drunken Irishman]

13. I didn't say anything about him shooting up the place over anger...

I clearly said it was likely religiously motivated.

Doesn't make it international terrorism.

[flamingdem]

16. They're looking at the bombs and the techniques, he was in Saudi Arabia

so that's like many in Europe. They get trained and radicalized and return to do damage.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. That doesn't make it international terrorism.

[bettyellen]

22. For his wife, who also killed, it clearly was.

[flamingdem]

24. Why the focus on that label? The repukes were going on about that?

I vaguely remember Hillary using or not using the term.

[bettyellen]

26. I think if people want a direct overseas link to planning or funding they do not understand Isis.

They have been getting people to leave their lives and go over there to war. Just as easy to convince someone to go on an attack here if they can. That is what they have been encouraging for years. I think people are in denial because RWers love this shit, so it has to be BS.

So, he was going to run off and leave his wife there o face the cops. Way to go, dude. I hope the GoPro rumors are bullshit.

[flamingdem]

32. I think you're correct Betty

This bears some similarity to Europe and homegrown jihadis.

[Yorktown]

27. the wahhabi reading of Islam could be called international terrorism, I guess

(In Pakistan), Muslim pupils in radical madrassas chant at the morning assembly:

`When people deny our faith, ask them to convert and if they don't destroy them utterly.`

It's not just about a conduct (PP/abortion), it's about religion. With action suggested.

[leftynyc]

38. I don't understand your focus

on whether it was international terrorism. What would qualify under your definition? This was obviously a well planned attack, they had pipe bombs which you can't make in 5 minutes and I would think most people wouldn't have the "ingredients" just laying around the house. Would it matter if they were part of isis or just influenced by them?

[Mosby]

54. maybe they were part of a sleeper cell

That was activated.

Just my guess, like you said, people don't have pipe bombs just laying around so planning clearly was involved.

[leftynyc]

55. I also think sleeper cell

And this wont be the last. Fuck the nra for making the terrorist's job easier. But that's only part of the problem. Political correctness is also part of the problem.

[Mosby]

58. have you heard about the Hearing Protection Act of 2015?

NRA sponsored, introduced by an AZ rep and Co sponsored by 10 other republican congress people.

It's designed to make it easier to buy silencers for guns.

The gun humpers aren't even pretending to care about public safety anymore.

[leftynyc]

61. The ammosexuals just think

buying bigger and bigger guns are the answer to everything. I heard a cop last night lamenting that because of all the high powered rifles out there, they need to go in with freeking tanks to have a chance at meeting the threat.

The name of that act just struck me (I need coffee). That's repulsive.

[B2G]

59. That's what sleeper cells are all about

Blending into society until it's time to act.

Which makes all of this 'but they seemed to fit in...were so all-American' bullshit so laughable. I mean, they were registered at Target!

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Police Chief Jarrod Burquan said that less than an hour ago during the presser

[bettyellen]

28. he also said, it is pretty obvious this was pre planned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Person asked who said it

I answered who said it, when.

The question asked, question answered, that is how things work.

I will leave the theories to the "experts" here.

And there are plenty of those here.

[bettyellen]

56. Just putting the issue in context for those who missed it. Was a scattered Q+A as they often are.

[leveymg]

21. this one ^^^

And no one should assume it's the last.

[Ex Lurker]

34. Some analysts on TV were theorizing a hybirid situation

Problems on the job making him susceptible to radicalism.

[Jesus Malverde]

14. How many clues do you need?

Considering there were three gunmen. Your lone wolf theory seems farfetched.

What you are right about, it was a disturbed individual. It seems likely he was not of sound mind as are most of the Jihadist. There are US citizens that are infected with radical islamist ideology. Take the Ft. Hood shooter or the Marathon Bombers, all US citizens. Were they part of ISIS? What does that matter? They're sympathizers to radical Islam the type promoted by Saudi sponsored Wahhabi preachers. Most muslims do not subscribe to that extreme form of Islam but to pretend it doesn't exist is naive.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

[Drunken Irishman]

20. Never said lone wolf. lol

Do you have any credible reports these people were linked to international terrorist groups?

[Jesus Malverde]

23. The whole point of radical Islam is they don't have to be.

The call is out to wage Jihad, around the world. Deal with it.

Islamic State urges jihad against Russians, Americans: audio

Islamic State called on Muslims to launch a "holy war" against Russians and Americans over what it called their "crusaders' war" in the Middle East, an audio message distributed by supporters of the ultra hardline group said on Tuesday.

"Islamic youth everywhere, ignite jihad against the Russians and the Americans in their crusaders' war against Muslims," the speech by Islamic State spokesman Abu Mohammad al-Adnani said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/13/us-mideast-crisis-islamicstate-idUSKCN0S72DH20151013

[Drunken Irishman]

31. Deal with what?

[leftynyc]

40. That whether they declared their

loyalty to isis or just were influenced by them is a distinction without a difference. This was not a spur of the moment attack. They were well prepared to inflict the most carnage they could.

[Jesus Malverde]

41. Thanks I got bored here.

I suspect without a memo from Isis in his name, the OP would continue to be obtuse. Maybe he's just bumping his own thread.

[leftynyc]

42. This is a game changer, for sure

The inability of so many Democrats to acknowledge what's right in front of their faces for fear of getting called bad names is maddening. It looks like religious extremism is the culprit here (with a helping hand from the nra). I'm not willing to lose an election and hand over supreme court nominations because people want to keep their heads in the sand.

[Jesus Malverde]

44. Agreed.

We discussed this via the refugee issue. Game changer for sure.

Cultural relativism and denial is not a winning strategy.

[Yorktown]

35. Well said

Ft. Hood shooter, the Marathon Bombers, San Bernardino do not need the formal blessing of an organization,

they already have that of the wahhabi ideology.

[Gman]

15. Currently none.

[Warpy]

25. Well, he wasn't a "lone wolf" this time

so they can't pull that bullshit out.

However, I think organized terrorism is a bit of a stretch given that his target was his workplace, or his former workplace. There will likely be all sorts of Jihadist crap on his computer but that doesn't mean he was part of some larger conspiracy.

Right now it looks like a guy with a screw loose taking it out on his job and coworkers. He was just able to persuade other people to join him somehow. The attack was organized, the target completely off base, and the escape blundered. This all adds up to wannabe for me.

[Dorian Gray]

45. What's fascinating

to me is this:

Let's say the three of them were inspired by ISIS. He was irked at his job, so it's what he wants to target. How do you convince two other ISIS inspired jihadis that your (former?) workplace is the right target?

His wife and brother are the reported other 2 jihadis, but if they were radicalized enough, you'd think they'd attempt to do it someplace less personal....

And I'm not trying to be funny, but imagine how that conversation would go down: Hey, honey... I think I'd like to hurt my coworkers in the name of Allah. You on board?

[Warpy]

64. Don't forget these people are driving themselves crazy

probably sleep deprived keeping up a prayer schedule, especially with an infant in the house. I imagine all he really had to say was "government building." Once they were inside, he led the way to his coworkers and started shooting, they simply followed once it began.

[darkangel218]

29. I found this:

http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/tashfeen-malik-syed-farook-wife-suspect-inland-regional-center-san-bernardino-shooting-suspect-facebook-page/

Not sure how accurate the info is though.

[oystrich]

30. It could be religiously driven, but even more....something against humanity

It might be true that the attacks are religiously driven but, even Muslims are killed in such attacks, like those in India. I have seen few clips on the people who suffered....it was horrifying!

[Democat]

33. If one of the terrorists is from another country

Doesn't that make it international?

[madville]

36. Let the FBI go through their computers and devices

That should help explain the motive or lack of one maybe.

The law enforcement agencies haven't even collected or analyzed all the evidence yet. What would a lack of or the existence of a certain kind of evidence prove at this point anyway? Way to early to determine anything.

[octoberlib]

39. All I can add to this is that I feel

sorry for our American Muslim communities today because this act will be taken out on them. Cnn just had the head of some California Muslim group on and he looked scared. Prepare for the fear and hysteria to be ramped up to ten.

[bklyncowgirl]

46. It is a confusing case--jihadism cannot be ruled out--but then there's that workplace incident.

Here's what we know:

The guy was born in the USA. He is of Pakistani descent. His parents are divorced. He is a devout Muslim who became increasingly religious in the past few years. He met his wife online and brought her home from Saudi Arabia. He seems to have been a quiet guy, apparently well liked at work. He owned guns and enjoyed shooting. His family was totally in the dark--the grandmother who was watching the baby was terrified for him until she learned that he was being named as the shooter. The brother in law also seems totally bewildered. The attack was well planned with a small arsenal of weapons, ammunition, explosive devices. He didn't just go home, grab the wife and weapons and start blasting.

What we don't know but what I suspect the FBI and other authorities are working hard to find out:

Was there anything at work which could have sparked this incident? A bad performance evaluation? Even in these hypersensitive days Christmas and/or Hanukah decorations at the party? What role did religion play in the family dynamics--we know that his parents are divorced--could religion have played a role? What happened when he went to Saudi Arabia? What do we know about the wife? Could she be the one who radicalized him? Could she be the one who masterminded the plot?

I really think that the wife is the fascinating one in this story. Her brother sounds like he's lived in this country a long time but she was in Saudi Arabia until two years ago. I'm speculating here but it's possible that a woman brought up in Wahhabi dominated Saudi Arabia and suddenly transplanted to southern California could have undergone a sort of culture shock that turned her totally and violently against western culture.

These are questions. We don't have answers.

[boston bean]

47. I don't know. But would like to point out that some of the Paris attackers were

citizens of France.

So, now a day, I don't think it matters where you were born in order for it to be international terrorism.

[moondust]

50. CNN: Suspect was in contact with overseas terror suspects. n/t

[Lizzie Poppet]

60. And both shooters were wearing GoPro cameras.

That sure at least looks like they were planning to distribute video of what they were doing...which in turn suggests terrorism.

EDITED to include link to GoPro story. Unfortunately, I can't find any better source than Gateway Pundit, so the usual caveats until this is verified by a more objective source...

[moondust]

62. SB police chief

just had a press conference and said he cannot confirm any cameras used by the suspects.

[Lizzie Poppet]

63. Thank you! (nm)

[Bluenorthwest]

53. How do you demonstrate to me that religious and political extremism are different things?

It seems to me that to do that you have to believe the religion. If I put a crucifix on my political extremism is it 'different' now? If I claim that I want to control you 'for faith' does that really mean it is not just 'for power'?

I don't really dig the emphasis on the two being different. Religious extremism is political extremism.

[KamaAina]

57. There sure is! The guy's name was Farook, for Pete's sake!

What more evidence do you need?