This message was self-deleted by its author

[darkangel218]

This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Fri Dec 4, 2015, 12:39 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[hrmjustin]

1. No one is taking your guns away.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. + 1000

[darkangel218]

8. Some are trying to propose a ban. You can't deny that.

[hrmjustin]

10. But that is not going to happen and we all know that.

Gutless politicians who are afraid of the gun lobby.

[darkangel218]

17. Say what??

[hrmjustin]

18. What.

[darkangel218]

20. Nevermind.. Nt.

[951-Riverside]

14. I'm one of those people. Its just a question of how many innocent deaths you're willing to ignore...

until you've had enough.

You're on the side war, death and mayhem and in the end you will lose your precious toys. It could be 1 year, it could be 5 years, it could be 10 years but its just a matter of time and its going to happen.

[philosslayer]

120. How exactly will it happen?

Do you mean confiscation?

[951-Riverside]

122. Context

I was responding to:

Some are trying to propose a ban. You can't deny that.

My response:

I'm one of those people. Its just a question of how many innocent deaths you're willing to ignore until you've had enough.

You're on the side war, death and mayhem and in the end you will lose your precious toys. It could be 1 year, it could be 5 years, it could be 10 years but its just a matter of time and its going to happen.

[philosslayer]

123. So you implied that she will "lose her precious toys"

Seeing as she already HAS a firearm, do you believe it will be taken from her?

[951-Riverside]

124. I don't know what you're trying to argue or dig at here. My position very clear.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

16. I don't get into this debate much and I have no beef with you, darkangel218, but you're as good...

...a person to ask this question to as anyone: What happens to the bullets that miss their intended target?

[TipTok]

29. The honest answer is that they don't care...

The innocent folks who die from violent crime are somehow less important than the innocent folks who die from mass shootings.

Go figure...

[ChisolmTrailDem]

34. That's not true at all. nt

[TipTok]

50. How is that not true?

A total confiscation (accomplished through magic) would last about a week and criminals would be rearmed.

Crime will rise and people who would have been able to defend themselves will be hurt and killed. Doubly so in a culture like America...

Just the cost of doing business right?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

63. Well, who are you referring to as "they"? People who want gun control? Because, if so...

...you said "they don't care" and one group is less important that the other. I am saying that is not true. Because "they" would include me. And I made my case in post #30 that darkangel's situation must be taken into consideration, etc. You can read it. So, it's not true that "they" don't care because I do care. But, something has to be done about the madness; we can't just not do something. It's important that personal defense in instances of rape (and other cirmes) be considered but there are also innocent people out there who have no business being dead getting killed!

[Humanist_Activist]

66. Statistically speaking the odds that she will be raped again by a stranger breaking into her home...

several times less likely than being shot by her own gun now that she has one.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

30. No, I don't want that to happen, and I said so when I said I have no beef with you. You do...

...what you feel you need to do to feel safe so you can go outside and function in life and be able to defend yourself if needed. Whatever the solution to this gun madness going on in this country I believe it must take situations like yours into consideration. But something must be done to stop the madness.

[REP]

61. Depends upon what and where she is shooting

If she's in a house, shooting a shotgun, the pellets are likely to stay within the dwelling. Firing a pistol above .22, there's a chance of the projectile escaping the walls. That's one reason shotguns are good for self-defense in a house; that, and the characteristic sound of the slide is usually enough to encourage intruders to leave.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

99. sound of the slide + mumbling kill or cripple + angry dirty words

I tried that ounce with a non-friend hanging around too much... work great! I just wish I tried it a a few months earlier

[99th_Monkey]

2. Would you pass a background check? nt

[Arugula Latte]

4. I'm just curious -- what well-regulated militia are you a member of?

[darkangel218]

12. I'm member of the rape survivor one.

Those who chose to protect themselves, and not fall victim again.

Do you have a problem with that??

[TeddyR]

111. Where does the Second Amendment state that a gun owner has to be a militia member?

At best, it states that a militia is the best protection of a free state, and therefore the right to keep and bear arms "shall not be infringed." But it doesn't say you only get to own a gun if you are a member of a militia. And in any event, the Founding Fathers viewed the "militia" as every able bodied person in the country. For example, George Mason stated “I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people.”

[Old Codger]

116. Absoluely right

The requirement to be a member was 16 years of age and the owning of a gun...

[yallerdawg]

5. Which "well-regulated militia" do you belong to...

as specified in the Constitution?

You know, for the "security of a free state." We insist on security, you know.

I'm not sure if handing you a gun and anyone else who wants one makes me feel secure.

[upaloopa]

6. Every day a new shooting

The responce is pray for the victims and you won't take my guns away.

Our gun culture in this country a real negative.
I could say worse but what's the use.

[Texasgal]

21. So are you packing all of the time?

Does Florida have concealed handgun law? Are you a CHL holder?

I don't disgree with you, just curious.

[Texasgal]

24. Oh buzz off..

Ugh. :rollseyes:

Take your drama somewhere else.

[darkangel218]

28. Boo hoo! You do that!

I never attacked you on DI.didn't even know who you were till I was told later.

[Texasgal]

35. I'm not even on DI.

Now, go take your drama elsewhere.

[darkangel218]

42. You're not on DI??

You are in DI, you admitted it yourself who you were lmao!!!!

Bye.

[Texasgal]

76. Toodles

[darkangel218]

78. Yup.

I only see "stars"...

[upaloopa]

26. Our gun culture is still a negative

We have 88.8 guns per 100 people.

That is not sane. I think we have too much fear.

[Katashi_itto]

84. Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer

Christy Salters Martin is a professional boxer and the owner of a concealed carry permit. But when she attempted to leave her husband, she was shot with her own gun. Today, she cautions other women against making the same mistake. “Just putting a weapon in the woman’s hand is not going to reduce the number of fatalities or gunshot victims that we have. Too many times, their male counterpart or spouse will be able to overpower them and take that gun away.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a-gun-in-the-house-doesnt-make-a-woman-safer/284022/

[madinmaryland]

109. My wife was attacked brutally by a male nearly 25 years ago and yet she has no

desire to own a gun. She was with a boyfriend a couple of years later who she was with when he got busted for drugs and if she had had a gun she would probably be still in jail and we would never have met.

Her father owned one or two as a private investigator back in the 60's to 80's before he retired, but she never felt that having a gun provided her any protection. Her father hid the gun, but she still knew where it was. It's something that (and I) did not want in our house.

And I am sorry that you were assaulted.

[yeoman6987]

132. Our murder rates are down significantly

More guns equals less murders. At least statistically.

[upaloopa]

135. Saying that when we are having almost

daily mass shootings is unbelievable

[Rex]

7. You don't have to worry about gun confiscation.

That will never happen, it is logistically impossible. IMO.

[darkangel218]

9. Good. n/t

[840high]

90. Very good.

[Rex]

117. They could not make prohibition stick. States are making pot legal.

As much as people want a big bonfire of guns, the genie left the stage coach eons ago. It will never happen, just like the govt coming for yer guns. Or the govt shutting down a S&W factory. Or shutting down the MIC for that matter. Maybe there is an uptick in rampages, because of actions on the otherside of the planet?

Bottom line is people will never give up their firearms, they heard Moses tell them over their cold dead hands. It was not a joke.

[GGJohn]

130. You are so right Rex.

the best guesstimate of firearms in this country is appox 320 million, and that's not counting those that aren't known about.

Those fantasizing about a confiscation are truly not living in the land of reality.

[valerief]

11. Thanks for giving me your name to put on Eternal Ignore. nt

[darkangel218]

13. Right back atcha.

[TeddyR]

114. I find ignore lists really

Odd. Why would you go to a website that encourages political debate and then "ignore" people who disagree with you. Our entire political system is based on disagreement and compromise. I, for one, don't want one group to impose their beliefs on another, or "ignore" someone else's position because they don't like it.

[mythology]

22. Statistically speaking, you are far more likely to be harmed by your own gun

than to defend yourself with one. Your gun is more likely to harm a friend or family member than a potential criminal, again by a wide margin.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

[darkangel218]

27. Show me the stats on rape crimes.

Armed vs Unarmed ( as far as the victim)

?

[maxsolomon]

44. I don't believe these statistics exist

Or they would be trumpeted from the mountaintop.

[grntuscarora]

25. Especially important to females?

umm, no. The idea that gun ownership makes a woman safer is an NRA myth.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/having-a-gun-in-the-house-doesnt-make-a-woman-safer/284022/

[Humanist_Activist]

41. Where is your evidence that its not a myth?

What happened to you is atrocious and shouldn't happen to anyone but it also isn't an excuse to lose all rationality.

[Humanist_Activist]

48. This demand for "fuking delete!!!!!" is completely irrational, and while its true that you might...

have been able to defend yourself if you were armed, its also just as likely that you wouldn't have been able to whether you had a gun in the house or not.

Frankly speaking, it sounds like you need to talk to someone, and still blame yourself for what happened, I would recommend connecting with a survivors group. Sorry this happened to you.

[darkangel218]

55. Maybe you "should speak to someone *.

Do you agree with this post?
[IMG][/IMG]

The reason I'm posting this is because I've been bombarded with insults for the past 24 houts. Decide for yourself.

[Humanist_Activist]

62. The fact is that you are grossly overreacting to posts on this board from people who are trying to..

not be confrontational, but simply disagree with your position. There is no need for you to go off the handle like that.

[philosslayer]

121. So you're saying that a rape victim...

Is grossly overreacting to a poster who said her desire to defend herself was "bloodlust". I alerted on that particular post. I thought it was disgusting.

I take it you don't understand the trauma that can be involved after a rape. By your post, you clearly don't.

[etherealtruth]

57. Exactly

Horrifying life events often prompt solutions that aren't actually solutions; sometimes they put us in more danger.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed/

Packing heat may backfire. People who carry guns are far likelier to get shot – and killed – than those who are unarmed, a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has found.

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/24/news/la-ol-guns-women-increased-risk-of-being-shot-studies-20140224

So much for the argument that a gun in the house makes you safer. And it’s especially not true for women.

Atlantic Cities has a roundup piece Monday of recent studies of gun ownership and violence. It concludes that women living in homes in which guns are present are at much higher risk of being shot — most often by a spouse or partner — than women in homes without gun access. The most recent study is in the Annals of Internal Medicine, and its overall conclusion is direct: “Access to firearms is associated with risk for completed suicide and being the victim of homicide.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/dangerous-gun-myths.html?_r=0

The cost-benefit balance of having a gun in the home is especially negative for women, according to a 2011 review by David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Far from making women safer, a gun in the home is “a particularly strong risk factor” for female homicides and the intimidation of women.

[grntuscarora]

49. I'm sorry for not reading your earlier post.

What you went through is horrible, and I am truly sorry.

I do disagree with your point that guns make women safer.

Changing our society and its attitude toward women is going to be a long, complicated process.

Again, my apologies for what you've been through.

[choie]

101. darkangel218 with all due respect

and I'm asking this with all sincerity -- Have you received any counseling? Your responses indicate that you are really struggling to cope with what happened to you.

[DLevine]

107. How many times are you going to post this?

That person edited their post per your request. What more do you want?

[darkangel218]

134. I asked them to delete, not edit.

Anyone can see the post if they click on their "edit".

[edgineered]

31. Let me be the first rec on this thread.

It eludes me how a community of open minded people cannot know that possession of a firearm does not change the nature of a person. The idea that irrational and unreasonable actions by some will infect the minds of all gun owners seems to be fairly common here.

[maxsolomon]

40. that is a false assertion

possession of a firearm DOES change the nature of SOME people. impulsive suicides by firearm come to mind.

and yes, they COULD use a substitute method. but by and large they don't.

[Old Codger]

118. Pretty much

Integral here.... some seem to think that the act of owning a gun is the same as being as much a criminal as the ones that perpetrate these horrendous acts...

[maxsolomon]

32. I'm very sorry for your experience and I understand your motivation

A firearm will, in theory, give you the chance to defend yourself. That's why most people have them.

There is also the possibility that
a. you won't ever need it
b. if you need it, it won't be at hand
c. if you try to use it, it could be taken away and used against you
d. you will shoot an innocent
e. you will shoot yourself

All of these are possible. In fact, option E is the most likely as 2/3 of firearm deaths every years are suicides.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

46. D is what I was asking about upthread. You added some good other possibilities, especially...

C and E (2/3 of the suicides? Damn, E!).

[maxsolomon]

54. Yes, 20K out of 30K deaths every year

And most of them are impulsive - family had no idea it was coming. Survivors have said they gave it about 1/2 hour of thought.

[REP]

33. I'm a 5'3" woman who has successfully fought off much larger male attackers

I didn't drive until I was 29. Before that, I took the bus and walked everywhere in my hometown, which still has a fairly high crime rate. I have fought off two muggers at once (until I realized the odds weren't in my favor; then I took my wallet out of my purse and let them have the purse); broke the arm and shattered the cheekbone of another would-be purse thief; and escaped an attempted kidnapping/rape. There's nothing special about me; I'm not athletic (if I were, I would have run instead of fought) and I have always had severe problems with the joints in my upper extremities. I don't have martial arts or other self-defense training. It just never occurred to me to not fight back with my bare hands. Women can fight an assault and win.

[darkangel218]

37. Good for you.

You got lucky.
I am taller than you and was raped on knife point.

Thanks for sharing.

Just don't try to take out rights away.

[REP]

47. "Lucky"?

What if I said you got "lucky" because you weren't killed? Insulting, right?

No, I didn't get "lucky." I fought back.

Don't go pushing the "women are helpless" lie. Because it's a lie.

I hope you passed a range and written test before you started carrying your derringer around. I'm not trying to take anyone's gun - I just want to make sure they're safe to use it.

[darkangel218]

51. Are you trying to say that I "didn't fight back enough" so I won't get raped???

You should be ashamed of what youre trying to insinuate.

[REP]

53. If that's what I meant, I would have said that.

I'm not one to mince words.

[darkangel218]

59. That is what you said.

[REP]

64. Sigh. No, it isn't. But nice try.

Go yell at someone else now.

[darkangel218]

65. Yes that is what you said.

I was not "yelling" at you.

[REP]

67. Move along now, sweetie. You're done here.

[darkangel218]

69. I am not your "sweetie".

Take your condescending posts elsewhere.

[REP]

70. Whatever you say, babycakes.

[darkangel218]

71. Shove it. n/t

[REP]

74. That's not very ladylike, sugarplum

[darkangel218]

75. And you're "gentleman like"??

You disrespect women like is nothing.

Good riddance.

[REP]

80. See post #33. So no, I'm not. At all.

Since I'm a woman and all ...

[darkangel218]

83. Even worse. n/t

[REP]

85. Feel better now, hon?

[darkangel218]

93. Not your "hon".

Try again.

[yuiyoshida]

36. IBTL

[Hoyt]

38. Women packing a small gun, and not otherwise pushing gunz, doesn't really bother me.

They at least have some degree of rationale for toting.

Gun fanciers do -- those who accumulate lots of gunz, train as if we are in a war zone, indoctrinate their kids into the gun culture, etc.

I get your anger and am very sorry for what happened to you, but anger and gunz don't mix.

[leftofcool]

45. I get where you are coming from.

You do have the right to defend yourself and yes, you have the right to shoot anyone who tries to rape you (aim for the head). Let's just call that draining the swamp. Would you also agree that we can ban assault weapons and high capacity mags?

[darkangel218]

58. Absolutely.

We can defend yourself with regular pistols, no need for assault weapons.

Ty.

[NCTraveler]

52. Terribly sorry about what you went through.

But you sure as hell cant sell guns as an equalizer for women and reality shows that. This is as NRA as it gets.

What Well Regulated Malitia are you a part of?

[darkangel218]

56. You expect a response to that??

[NCTraveler]

73. No, I do not, even though I got more than one.

That's always nice.

[Photographer]

60. Don't bother. This one called me RW and a troll in my own thread for opposing guns.

[darkangel218]

68. Because you replied this when I posted that I did not agree with you

And that I was a rape victim

[IMG][/IMG]

You didn't even deleted it.

[Photographer]

86. And I edited the line out and this is like the 3rd time you have reposted it.

You do seem to harbor quite a temper and like to publicise the fact you were assaulted in a terrible way.

[Kali]

125. she will likely bring it up for years, too

she sent her phone number unsolicited to someone here once, and regularly accuses them of giving out her personal information.

best is to avoid interacting with her, but sometimes it can be hard to ignore the flaming lookatmeeeee threads.

[TeddyR]

126. Are you really accusing a rape victim of being an attention-seeker

Because she was raped? I've never alerted on a post before, but that's a pretty low-down asshole thing to do. Hope you feel good about yourself. Asshole.

[Kali]

128. no I am stating some facts about the behavior of an individual

check out her posting history for yourself

[NCTraveler]

82. It has been tough reading their replies throughout. Nt

[Chan790]

72. I disagree.

It is not a Constitutional right to carry and bear arms...at least not under the second Amendment...not unless you joined the state militia.

The 2nd Amendment confers no actual rights on the citizenry since the disbandment of the state militias and their replacement with the National Guard under the control and auspices of the Department of the Army.

[darkangel218]

79. I join the rape victims Militia.

Is that good enough for you???

[Chan790]

89. No.

I don't believe that confers the RKBA either. You forming or joining a private militia is basically null; it's not the militia that the Amendment confers the right upon and which was explicitly and formally disbanded by act of Congress and forebeared against any future reestablishment.

There is no means for citizens to RKBA without joining the armed forces or National Guard. You're free to apply...I've heard they're being pickier about who they take.

[msongs]

81. oh we can just ignore the militia part ok lol nt

[sanatanadharma]

77. There are too many assailants in America..

...and we tolerate too many of them at all levels of society from those acting out in mass shootings to those TV talking heads encouraging hate against the 'them'.

Guns are not the answer to violence against women.
The answer is stopping boys from becoming violent men by religiously refusing to tolerate hate in America at all levels.

This means raising up generations in a welcoming world rather than a Republican world.

Gun manufacturers are responsible for world-wide carnage. Daesh kills with guns made by 'respectable ' corporate people.

Bad guys get guns from good guys.

[Kali]

87. people should be careful when they drink and play with guns

lots of idiots have achieved Darwin awards that way.

[B Calm]

88. The only gun confiscation I can remember was by G W Bush in New Orleans.

[bobalew]

91. and You as a Gun owner are RESPONSIBLE for that Firearm.

You MUST:
Keep it locked in a safe place, when not in "USE".
Keep it from being Stolen
BE SKILLED in its use
Understand that it is a LIFE ENDING instrument
Have the proper mindset, and Give FAIR WARNING when about to "USE" it
KNOW how to maintain it.
Understand Differing forms of AMMUNITION.
Keep it out of the hands who do NOT KNOW how to use it.
ANd BE SANE.

You pass all of these, you get to have a gun WITH ammunition. You fail, you get no ammunition. That is my stance on the subject & YES I own Guns.

[darkangel218]

95. I am for all that.

Thanks.

[840high]

129. Agree 100%.

[elias49]

92. Can this thread please be locked???

Heads are exploding for nothing.

[darkangel218]

94. All the other anti second amendment threads ate allowed, because of the recent events.

So NO.

If this thread was locked, Then the other threads should be locked as well.

[elias49]

97. In the meantime you're being driven to an aneurism -

let it go. For your own sanity.

[darkangel218]

100. I don't think so ( in regard to the "aneurism")

Nice try though.

[hifiguy]

96. Whoop-de-fucking-doo.

How many days until the next massacre in this open-air lunatic asylum we laughingly call a country?

[LostOne4Ever]

102. FORUM HOST DECISION: thread meets news exception-LEAVE nt

[darkangel218]

106. Ty hosts.

[840high]

110. Good.

[OregonBlue]

103. If you belong to a well regulated militia. Which no one does of course.

[TeddyR]

115. Actually

The Founding Fathers thought the "well-regulated militia" consisted of all able-bodied adults, so both you and I are part of that militia.

[jmg257]

131. Cool - When did you last muster?

Because THAT militia no longer exists.

[Historic NY]

105. If its so Constitutional try brings a gun to your representatives office.....

[MANative]

108. Which regiment do you belong to?

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,..."

[TeddyR]

119. The right to keep and bear arms

Shall not be infringed. According to the Founding Fathers, we are all part of the "well regulated militia," meaning each and every one of us (within limits of course - no felons, no mentally ill, etc.) have a protected right to keep and bear arms. That means you and I are part of the "militia" and the Second Amendment prevents the government from infringing on our right to bear arms. You don't have to be part of the military to be part of the militia. Here's a quote from George Mason: “I ask you sir, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people.” And from Tench Coxe: "Who are the militia? are they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American...The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."

[librechik]

112. Thank you for revealing yourself

Now you are gone

[bettyellen]

113. And the nuts have them voting to allow those on the terror watch list to buy them....

Fuck that.

[bigwillq]

127. K and R (nt)

[doc03]

133. The Second Amendment says you have a right to keep and

bear arms. It says nothing about any right to "carry". It also says they can be regulated.