If Ted Cruz wasn't born in the US, why's he still running for pres and why is the media letting him?

[Ned_Devine]

I know it's old news that he wasn't born here, but seriously. By his own birth records, he wasn't born here, so isn't he automatically disqualified? By the way, just look at this asshole's face. It's like he's trying to play the role of a cartoon villain.

[jeff47]

1. Because "natural born citizen" includes people born outside the US to US citizens. (nt)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. This has been discussed to death. Cruz is eligible,

at least constitutionally, because although he was born in Canada, his mother was a U.S. citizen.

[Ned_Devine]

5. Ok. My brother just asked me

[BlueCaliDem]

8. I thought they had to be born on U.S. soil in the United States.

Two of my children were born abroad and received my American citizenship through me. My third child was born here. So all three could run for president if they wanted?

Cool.

[jberryhill]

14. Yes if they live here 14 years and are 35

[BlueCaliDem]

18. Well, both have been here since 1993 (23 yrs) but aren't nearly 35 yet.

[pnwmom]

15. Yes, they could. n/t

[jberryhill]

50. Not at the same time, though

[daleanime]

3. Because Canada doesn't want him either.

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. I was born outside the US but I am a natural born citizen by clear US law

My mother was an American citizen, and filed for a US citizen born abroad birth certificate with the US embassy, and the State Department provided one.

You, like many others, are simply ignorant of the law. US citizens born abroad are natural born citizens.

[former9thward]

6. Birthers on DU.

The U.S. law is clear on this. If you are born of a U.S. citizen you are a natural born citizen.

[Ned_Devine]

7. Got it. My brother was asking and I didn't have an answer

[BlueCaliDem]

19. See my post here about acquisition of U.S. citizenship by children born abroad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7425937

There are certain criteria that have to be met by the U.S. parent in order for a child born abroad to acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.

Ted Cruz would fall under the old INA law - the one before November 14, 1986.

[center]Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock[/center]
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

It would depend on his U.S. born mother; how long has she lived in the United States or one of its outlying possessions.

[Snobblevitch]

22. This is why the CT Obama birthers say he is not

eliglble to be president, assuming he was not born in Hawaii.

[Ned_Devine]

27. Nope, it's not that at all

Obama was actually BORN in Hawaii, so those people were just being assholes. I'm asking a genuine question because Cruz wasn't actually born in the U.S.

[Snobblevitch]

28. Re-read my post.

Maybe you'll understand my point after another read.

[Ned_Devine]

29. Dude, relax on the condescension.

You're talking about two unrelated things. Cruz was admittedly not born in the U.S. People here have set me straight on the rules and regs about his being allowed to run because he's a natural citizen thanks to his mom. What you're doing is being rude and taking us off topic. Telling me to re-read your post is condescending and almost sounds confrontational. Scale it back a little bit, all right?

[Snobblevitch]

31. The RWNJ birthers are ASSUMING (claiming)

that President Obama was born in Kenya. That is why the situations are the same premise. I never claimed BHO was not born in the U.S.

[BlueCaliDem]

30. But President Obama was most certainly born on Hawaii within the United States

while Cruz was born in Canada - not part of the United States. That's the difference is - a glaring difference.

[Snobblevitch]

32. Cripes...read my most recent reply.

[BlueCaliDem]

35. Like I said, there's a huge difference between President Obama's and Cruz' birth situation and

citizenship status. That's what I'm getting at. Not the ASSUMPTION of, but the FACTS of their respective birth places and citizenship status according to INA law. And it's got nothing to do with what nutty racist teabagger "birthers" assume or claim.

Facts are facts. Law is law.

If Cruz is a natural born U.S. citizen, he acquired his U.S. citizenship through his U.S. born mother since he was born in Calgary, Canada. If his mother fulfilled all INA criteria in order to pass her U.S. citizenship on to her foreign-born children, then he's a natural born American citizen. Period. If she did not, he is not a natural born American citizen.

Fact of the matter is, it's not as simple as just being an American citizen parent and your children automatically acquire your U.S. citizenship. My brother is a good example of that fact. He was born in Los Angeles, California, but neither of his daughters, both born abroad and under INA law after November 14, 1986, have acquired his U.S. citizenship because he didn't fulfill INA criteria for children born abroad to one, married, U.S. parent and they were born after 11/1986.

President Obama, on the other hand, was born on Hawaii, the 50th State of the United States since 1959, and on U.S. soil. Even IF he were born in Kenya, his mother wasn't married to his biological father at the time of his birth and he would automatically acquire his U.S. mother's citizenship. I know this for a fact because that's how my eldest son acquired his U.S. citizenship under the same, pre-November 1986 INA law that President Obama would fall under.

[Snobblevitch]

37. Bueller... Bueller...

[BlueCaliDem]

42. Translation: "I got no comeback." Yeah. We get it, Snobble. You don't.

[Ned_Devine]

71. This person seems like a total disruptor. I just can't imagine why

[grasswire]

25. doesn't she also have to file a certificate within a year of the birth?

or am I mistaken about that?

[BlueCaliDem]

33. Not really. I never had to when both of my children were born in the Netherlands,

yet have acquired U.S. citizenship through me. I claimed their U.S. citizenship simply through applying for their U.S. passports (cheaper than getting a Certificate of Citizenship back in 2001) when they were 9 and 19, respectively.

Their U.S. citizenship never expires and they can claim it any time in their lives, according to an immigration attorney.

If Cruz' American-born mother fulfilled all INA criteria that allows her children who are born abroad to acquire U.S. citizenship through her, then she could just leave it up to them to claim their citizenship either through applying for a U.S. passport or paying a higher fee for a Certificate of Citizenship. I did both for my eldest son since I didn't know this, and had already sent in the fee and paperwork to the INA office for his Certificate.

[lob1]

26. John McCain was born in an army hospital in Panama.

Yet he ran for president and introduced the world to Sarah P. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona before it was a state, as in, Not In The United States. But it was a US territory, so they let it slide.

[1939]

54. George Romney in 1968

Born in Mexico. Discussed and settled at the time.

[BlueCaliDem]

17. "If you are born of a U.S. citizen you are a natural born citizen." Not necessarily.

There are certain qualifications under INA law that determine if children acquired U.S. citizenship through parents.

I speak out of personal experience.

My daughter was born 11/1991 in the Netherlands but acquired citizenship through me under this section of the INA:

[center]Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock[/center]
A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

[center]Ted Cruz's mother would have to qualify under that part of the law that I've set in bold
for him to acquire U.S. citizenship under the old INA law.[/center]

My oldest son, Mark, was also born in the Netherlands and acquired U.S. citizenship through me under this section of the INA:

[center]Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother:[/center]
A person born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 309(c) of the INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person’s birth and if the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person’s birth. The U.S. citizen mother must be the genetic or the gestational mother and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

My brother's daughters did not acquire U.S. citizenship through birth. Although he was born in Los Angeles, California, he was thirteen when our father took us to the Netherlands. My brother never surrendered his citizenship but has never returned to the United States afterward. He has two daughters born after 1991 in the Netherlands, but neither qualified for acquisition of U.S. citizenship under the INA.

[center]One parent is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth and the birthdate is on or after November 14, 1986[/center]
The U.S. citizen parent had been physically present in the U.S. or its territories for a period of at least five years at some time in his or her life prior to the birth, of which at least two years were after his or her 14th birthday.

[former9thward]

73. Cruz has been around a long time.

I assume the Texas Democratic Party would have brought this up.

[struggle4progress]

9. The actual Constitutional language is:

... No person except a natural born citizen .. shall be eligible to the office of President ...

But if he gets the nomination, we can all call the rightwing talk shows and complain that Cruz seems to be some sort of Cubo-Canadian crypto-communist

[earthside]

59. I don't think that part of the Constitution has been litigated.

So, that could still be on deck.

There are laws for the rest of us (14th Amendment; Nationality Acts), but this is a qualification for "the office of President."

Article 2; Section 1: Clause 5: No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Remember, Congress even passed a special law for McCain ... just in case.

If Cruz were to become the Repuglican nominee for President or Vice President (12th Amendment), I'd like to see Article 2, Section 1 specifically litigated. I think Allan Grayson has already said he would file that suit.

It might not have much of a chance, but I would love to see the conservative/Repuglican/Tea Party strict constructionists and original intent advocates squirm. Frankly, I do think that the original intent of the drafters of the Constitution was that the President had to be born inside the United States.

I personally don't think Cruz is eligible.

[struggle4progress]

61. "... three years after the drafting of the Constitution, the First Congress established that

children born abroad to U.S. citizens were U.S. citizens at birth, and explicitly recognized that such children were “natural born Citizens” ..."

http://harvardlawreview.org/2015/03/on-the-meaning-of-natural-born-citizen/

[Jim Beard]

10. CNN and Wolf Blitzer lets them do whatever the want to do.

Can't remember the last time CNN interviewed Hillary or Berney.

[world wide wally]

11. I still don't trust him

[JEB]

12. Pretty sure he hatched. nt

[jberryhill]

13. He is a citizen by birthright

There are two kinds of citizens. Cruz is not naturalized, he was a citizen at birth - i.e. He was born a citizen.

Dumb point. Move on.

[Snobblevitch]

16. This CT about Cruz is right up there with

the 9/11 Truthers and the Sandy Hook CT Truthers.

[Ned_Devine]

20. Whoa! Easy. I don't know what CT stands for, but I was just asking.

My brother asked why no one was making such a big deal about Cruz not being born here and I didn't have a great answer for him. As far as 9/11 truthers, there's still a lot of stuff I want answered about what happened that day and why and how building 7 magically collapsed into its own footprint. But that's an argument for a different thread.

[Snobblevitch]

21. CT = Conspriracy Theory.

Shit happens that cannot be easily explained all the time. Steel does not have to 'melt' to become unstable. If millions of tons of debris lands alongside a seven story building, bad things can happen.

[Ned_Devine]

24. Well that explains it then.

I think there needs to be a little more research done on this.

[BlueCaliDem]

39. Why are you defending Cruz so vigorously?

Do YOU know how long his U.S. born mother lived in the United States? Do you know if she left the U.S. for Canada before she was 14 years young? Do you have any hard evidence that Mother Cruz fulfilled all INA requirements that would allow her to transfer her U.S. citizenship to her foreign-born children?

No? Then stop being so dismissive.

There's NO WAY you nor I can say with any certainty that Cruz is a natural born citizen unless and until documentation shows his American citizen mother has fulfilled all INA criteria for foreign-born children between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986. Just being an American-born parent doesn't automatically make your foreign-born children U.S. citizens.

So you implying that questioning Cruz' U.S. citizenship status is giving in to conspiracy theories, birther or otherwise, is ignorant at best. This is about facts and law. Just facts and law.

[Ned_Devine]

70. Very good question.

Cruz is a dangerous person. I want all the dirt on him possible.

[Marrah_G]

23. His mother was a US citizen and so he is a US citizen

[BlueCaliDem]

40. My brother is a U.S. citizen but neither of his daughters are U.S. citizens.

It ain't that simple.

[CanonRay]

43. Are you sure his mother was a US citizen when he was born?

or was she naturalized later? She was Canadian, correct?

[Marrah_G]

44. I would like to think we are more intelligent then teaparty morons.

[CanonRay]

46. It's just a question. Doesn't make me a moron

Technically, his mother has to be a USC at his birth. If she's still Canadian when he's born, he as no right to US citizenship. I can tell by your answer to me, you have no answer to the question.

[HereSince1628]

49. It's a question the asking of which risks empowering Cruz

This sort of challenge provides motivation to the herd that supports him to be defensive.

[CanonRay]

55. Nobody scares me more that Cruz. Not even Trump.

If Cruz could be gotten rid of on a legal technicality, I'm all for it.

[Ned_Devine]

63. I'm in the same boat. I also thought it was a legitimate question

I was met with a lot of condescension from people here and it really wasn't necessary. I wasn't asking it to be provocative; I was genuinely curious.

[CanonRay]

69. Condescension. Good word for it.

Sometimes it's like high school here.

[Ned_Devine]

72. It's easy to be rude to someone from a keyboard I suppose

[prouddemfromaustin44]

34. Because he's an attention seeking doofus, like the rest of the GOP

In any case, it's best to ignore him. He won't win anything after all.

[Recursion]

36. McCain was also not born in the US

If he met the requirements for citizenship at birth, he is a natural-born citizen and eligible for the Presidency.

(Ironically, even if Obama had been born in Kenya, he'd still be eligible for the Presidency.)

[Snobblevitch]

38. According to the RWNJ birthers, his mother

had not lived on the U.S. long enough after her 14th birthday if in fact he was born in Kenya (WHICH HE WAS NOT, FOR THE DENSE PEOPLE UP THREAD.)

[BlueCaliDem]

41. "Ironically, even if Obama had been born in Kenya, he'd still be eligible for the Presidency." Yes,

because his mother wasn't married to his biological father at the time of his birth, he would acquire his U.S. citizenship automatically - as was the case with my oldest son.

[CanonRay]

47. Both McCain's parents were US citizens

so no question. Not so simple with the Cruz family.

[jberryhill]

51. Oh, I'm pretty sure the Cruz family are all simple

[KamaAina]

64. McCain was born on a U.S. military base

which is considered U.S. soil. Although I did see a McCain birfer claim that he was actually born in nearby Colon, Panama.

[JoePhilly]

45. He's white.

As others point out, constitutionally, he's eligible. Just as Obama was.

The media however, had no problem allowing the RW to make insane claims about Obama, claims they would never allow regarding Cruz.

[dembotoz]

48. every time i run into a obama birther on facebook teddy crud is a fun way to call them a hypocrite

fun source of entertainment

[briv1016]

52. If Cruz beats out Rubio for the number 2 slot I expect Trump to make this an issue.

Even if he's legally eligible, the "gray area" is good enough for Trump and his supporters.

[hack89]

53. Because he is a natural born citizen.

don't they teach civics anymore?

[CanonRay]

56. Only if his one of his parents was a US citizens when he was born.

His father definitely was not. His mother became a USC, but when is the question. If it was after Cruz was born, then he's not entitled to citizenship by birth. If she was a citizen at his birth, end of story. I don't know the answer....do you?

[hack89]

57. His mother was born a US citizen. She was born in Delaware. nt

[Iggo]

65. End of story.

I swear, fucking birthers.

[yallerdawg]

58. Down here in the South...

many states have implemented a variety of ways to run off all the Hispanic/Latinos (AKA "illegal aliens&quot , to the point where we have shortages of migrant farm workers.

The idea that the heart of the Republican Party could turnaround and elect a Canadian-born fella named Cruz is astounding!

But then - Trump.

I guess anything is possible?

[PeteSelman]

60. Because we aren't idiots like the right, this angle isn't pursued.

So, you know, that's why.

[SwankyXomb]

62. Presumably he has a FS-240 or DS-1350 form

that he used to get his passport. Production of either of these or equivalent documents will end the nonsense once and for all.

[Bucky]

66. Because all Birthers are dumbfucks

and you should know better

[Ned_Devine]

68. Condescend much? Gimme a break

It was a question that I didn't know the answer to. I remember that Arnold couldn't run because he was born in Austria and the GOP wanted to change the rules for him. I thought maybe they were bending the rules for Ted Cruz too, but I have been set straight on his status. You know, I have a life outside of this site so I'm not always up to date on this. If we were talking face to face, I hope you'd be a little more polite.

[olddots]

67. shouldn't we narrow down the elegability of candidates

to our current dimension ?

[DhhD]

74. Here is my 2 cents worth: Cruz's Mother would need to follow the Law at the time, of Teddy's

birth in Canada and for up to about two years of age, since they immigrated back with Cruz's Canadian birth certificate when he was about 6 years old. Back then there was a time cut-off to get the Canadian papers and the N-600 form in the US Embassy Offices.

It is going to depend on the dates of the filings. Here is one source of information that one would have to pay for.

https://shusterman.com/acquistionofuscitizenship.html
snip
The laws regulating acquisition of U.S. citizenship at birth are among the most complex of the immigration laws. Adding to the complexity, Congress has significantly amended these laws on a number of occasions, in 1934, 1940, 1952, 1978, 1986 and 1994.
more at link


There must be plenty of retired N-workers that used the Form N-600. The question is did Teddy's Mother file all the paperwork and on time? Now the Form N-400 is must easier and quicker for those born more recently.