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Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:14 AM Dec 2015

If there's one thing that will drive me away from living in this country, it's the pathological

obsession over guns. I'm so very sick of this debate.

If we can't enact some reasonable gun laws in the next few years, I'm seriously going to look to move.

I say this as someone who has resisted the move away sentiment, and have really wanted to work within the system. But this argument frustrates me like no other.

58 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If there's one thing that will drive me away from living in this country, it's the pathological (Original Post) Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 OP
My spouse and I feel the same way. whathehell Dec 2015 #1
I do it lancer78 Dec 2015 #31
You do what? whathehell Dec 2015 #39
Agreed.. G_j Dec 2015 #2
I've been daydreaming about re-locating to a country whose foreign policies haven't resulted in so merrily Dec 2015 #3
Where... meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #4
Are you challenging the idea or just looking for places to move? whathehell Dec 2015 #5
We have looked into relocating... meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #7
Your biggest misgiving seems to be "crowds"...Mine is random violence, whathehell Dec 2015 #11
Any major decision is based on a variety... meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #12
I am a 3 time victim of crime, one violent whathehell Dec 2015 #40
I love Costa Rica, lived there 5 years... EX500rider Dec 2015 #47
Is that why you left? whathehell Dec 2015 #55
No, the low level crime of theft was much more bothersome... EX500rider Dec 2015 #56
So most of the crime was "low level" and non-violent whathehell Dec 2015 #58
American assume it will be easy treestar Dec 2015 #10
right now, Australia or England seem attractive Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #16
I lived in London many years ago... meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #18
Cairns is dull? You have to be kidding! Squinch Dec 2015 #20
I don't dive, I don't bungee jump and I don't raise sheep. n/t meaculpa2011 Dec 2015 #37
Australia needs skilled workers in a big way--in every category librechik Dec 2015 #46
If it's for retirement, you will need A LOT of money. jeff47 Dec 2015 #51
Yep, same here! In fact, I'm fed up with hearing about guns and religion. For both, for some, RKP5637 Dec 2015 #6
Much ryan_cats Dec 2015 #8
Stupid post of the day award goes to yours. Squinch Dec 2015 #22
That one may go up for the week or month award at least. nt laundry_queen Dec 2015 #54
The sad thing is his friends are running around, and they all read the same talking points. Squinch Dec 2015 #57
hmmm, I never said anything about ending gun ownership Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #23
Not much I can do about the guns here now, but one thing I can do is NOT put up with CTyankee Dec 2015 #9
I've lived all over the world and I chose to come back to the US to live (Charlottesville Virginia). Nitram Dec 2015 #13
thanks... yeah, still annoying as hell though Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #14
Americans stock up on guns and ammo after latest shooting- yeehaw! Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #15
America is in it's adolescence olddots Dec 2015 #17
Are you considering this because you feel endangered... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #19
Thanks... it's more the latter Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #24
I understand. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2015 #25
I'd never let gun humping cowards run me from my own country Skittles Dec 2015 #21
They think the right to their pathetic hobby ranks with a woman's right to choose or gay rights BeyondGeography Dec 2015 #26
We made the decision to find an 'escape' after Bushie boy took the election in 2004. mnhtnbb Dec 2015 #27
Absolutely 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #28
Where are you going to move? former9thward Dec 2015 #29
I'd say figure it out and move before everybody else has the same idea 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #30
Dream world. former9thward Dec 2015 #32
American Exceptionalism at its finest. n/t 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #34
You need skills to live here, unless you want to live whathehell Dec 2015 #41
The difference is that other countries won't let you live there. former9thward Dec 2015 #42
You mean the U.S. will let you live here on minimum wage or welfare whathehell Dec 2015 #43
Most people are not on the minimum wage or welfare. former9thward Dec 2015 #44
So.what are you talking about regarding the need for skills to move to other countries ? whathehell Dec 2015 #45
Why is this so hard to grasp? former9thward Dec 2015 #48
LOL..There's nothing to "grasp". whathehell Dec 2015 #49
What? former9thward Dec 2015 #50
Never mind, loll whathehell Dec 2015 #53
The other country has to get something out of you moving there. jeff47 Dec 2015 #52
I'd like to leave the L.A. area PasadenaTrudy Dec 2015 #33
Me too. Laffy Kat Dec 2015 #35
Yep. If it were easy to emigrate we'd be gone. Arugula Latte Dec 2015 #36
You'll eventually find me in the jungles a la izquierda Dec 2015 #38

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
1. My spouse and I feel the same way.
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:21 AM
Dec 2015

We're close to retirement, and we're sick of this shit...When you can't even go to an office party or

a movie theater without looking over your shoulder, it's time to go.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
3. I've been daydreaming about re-locating to a country whose foreign policies haven't resulted in so
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:27 AM
Dec 2015

many people from other nations being eager to annihilate me and mine.

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
7. We have looked into relocating...
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:45 AM
Dec 2015

and we have traveled extensively throughout the world.

I have family in Italy. Very nice to visit but I would not want to live there, or anywhere in Europe. Too crowded. I'm a lifelong New Yorker, but it's nowhere near as crowded as small towns in Italy. My cousins live a beautiful town of 20,000 people near the Adriatic and they live one on top of the other. I lived in London many years ago. Much more crowded than Manhattan.

I love Latin America, but if you're concerned about gun violence it's not for you. I don't want to live in a gated fortress for safety's sake.

Costa Rica is a popular destination for American retirees. The homicide rate is off the charts.

We're looking to escape the crowds of NYC, but when we weigh the pros and cons the advantages win out.

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
11. Your biggest misgiving seems to be "crowds"...Mine is random violence,
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 10:00 AM
Dec 2015

insane gun laws, and wide open access to guns. To each his own.

BTW, when it comes to Costa Rica (a country that, unlike our own, is marked as a very LOW risk for terrorist violence)

you may want to view the homicide rate in light of certain facts like these:

The murder rate for the capital city of San Jose, Costa Rica in 2005 was 9.2 - the murder rate in the US capital Washington DC at 35.40 is nearly four times higher than San Jose, Costa Rica...



meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
12. Any major decision is based on a variety...
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 10:13 AM
Dec 2015

of criteria. I wouldn't relocate to D.C. either.

The homicide rate in NYC this year is 4 per 100,000 and it's 10 in Costa Rica. Twenty five years ago the rate in NYC was 30.

The chance of random violence here is still fairly remote, and I'm speaking as someone who had a gun stuck in my ribs on a bright sunny afternoon on the streets of NY. Did I care whether the young gentleman with the revolver was on a terrorist watch list?

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
40. I am a 3 time victim of crime, one violent
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 10:26 AM
Dec 2015

and 2 home invasion- near violent. I can assure you that I'm as familiar with it as you.

I am more concerned with domestic mass shootings as I am with terror strikes. My decision to leave, btw, should I make it, would be based as much on a principaled anger as on personal fear.

EX500rider

(10,951 posts)
56. No, the low level crime of theft was much more bothersome...
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 04:45 PM
Dec 2015

....and the low level corruption amoung local police hitting you up for bribes.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
10. American assume it will be easy
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:59 AM
Dec 2015

but it may not be, as they may well not be eligible. Unless they have a lot of money. There are some countries with retirement visas. If you're not going to work there, but live there and spend your money, they are OK with that!

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
16. right now, Australia or England seem attractive
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 02:55 PM
Dec 2015

but not sure how realistic it is.

Maybe for retirement, which is a ways away

meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
18. I lived in London many years ago...
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 03:42 PM
Dec 2015

and it was horrendously expensive, even compared with NY. I don't know how it is now, but I don't imagine it's much better.

Life in the countryside was less hectic, but still very expensive.

I was in Cairns, Australia for a bit and it was D-U-L-L. I may have to spend a few months there on business ext year and I don't look forward to it. Melbourne is wall-to-wall sprawl.

It's a big, beautiful world with plenty of great places to live.

librechik

(30,693 posts)
46. Australia needs skilled workers in a big way--in every category
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 07:11 PM
Dec 2015

They need to build more housing and everything need an update. It takes a year to get a plumber, there aren't enough. Technical skills are much desired.

My son lives in Australia and is trying to get a citizenship going--He has had many more opportunities in his field (programming) there than here at home.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
51. If it's for retirement, you will need A LOT of money.
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 12:36 AM
Dec 2015

They don't just let anyone in. Massively oversimplified, they have to get something out of you moving there.

If you're young, they'll get decades of taxes.
If you're rich, they'll get lots of taxes in a short time.
If you've got someone unique or otherwise in-demand skills, they'll benefit from you bringing those skills.

You'll need to research the immigration programs for each country you're considering.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
6. Yep, same here! In fact, I'm fed up with hearing about guns and religion. For both, for some,
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:40 AM
Dec 2015

it's an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder IMO. If I had the means, I would be looking for other places to live. The 2016 elections will be very revealing. If this country swings full republican IMO it's going to be a dreadful place to live. Yep, there are far worse places, but this country could be doing far better.


ryan_cats

(2,061 posts)
8. Much
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:50 AM
Dec 2015

Much as I think Mother Theresa didn't really want to end poverty, I don't think you really want to end gun ownership.
Else how would you maintain a pretense at a virtue you have not earned?

If gun ownership ended tomorrow, would you feel fulfilled and self actualized, of course not, you need a cause and any cause will do, would it not?

Squinch

(51,215 posts)
57. The sad thing is his friends are running around, and they all read the same talking points.
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 04:57 PM
Dec 2015

So I hate to commit, even though I can't imagine stupider. But I am always amazed by some of our DU brethren.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
23. hmmm, I never said anything about ending gun ownership
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 10:27 PM
Dec 2015

I simply hate that we can't even enact simple measures like UBC, and so forth.

I hate that people in this country stock up on guns and ammo whenever there is a mass shooting. I hate the fucking paranoia that gun ownership seem to bring in this country.

CTyankee

(64,008 posts)
9. Not much I can do about the guns here now, but one thing I can do is NOT put up with
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:57 AM
Dec 2015

DUers who presumbably with a straight face defend their guns against sensible restrictions and swearing they are progressive Democrats.

I won't let that go easily, I will tell you...anyone who says that to me will get "I don't believe you" from me. And I mean it.

Nitram

(23,390 posts)
13. I've lived all over the world and I chose to come back to the US to live (Charlottesville Virginia).
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 11:12 AM
Dec 2015

I can assure you, you will have to put up with things you don't like wherever you go. Right wingers are just as obnoxious in every country I've ever been to. Endemic corruption is worse than gun violence, in my experience, and it will affect you daily if you live in countries where corruption is part of the system. Every Latin American nation has gun issues, regardless of what laws are on the books. Remember, there is an enormous difference between living in a country and just visiting on vacation. I'd suggest moving to a community in the US where the record of gun violence is very low. Where I live, ownership of guns is high, but there is a very, very low incidence of gun violence.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
17. America is in it's adolescence
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 03:05 PM
Dec 2015

hopedully it will grow up but in the meantime there are countries that have become more grown up because they decided to still value education above materialism .

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
19. Are you considering this because you feel endangered...
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 03:51 PM
Dec 2015

...or because you find it makes the atmosphere of the nation intolerable? If the latter, then I understand (although I don't agree). Living somewhere that just feels wrong does nothing good for a person.

If the former, however, you might want to consider that your actual probability of being shot is really, really low (unless you're making some really bad life decisions). Violent crime has been dropping steadily for decades. Things are still messed up,...but despite media inundation with "fear, fear, FEAR 25/7," they're getting better.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
24. Thanks... it's more the latter
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 10:30 PM
Dec 2015

I live in a safe area and don't feel threatened. But yeah, it's really the political atmosphere.

BeyondGeography

(39,435 posts)
26. They think the right to their pathetic hobby ranks with a woman's right to choose or gay rights
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 11:17 PM
Dec 2015

It would be funny if it weren't so fucked up and destructive.

mnhtnbb

(31,503 posts)
27. We made the decision to find an 'escape' after Bushie boy took the election in 2004.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:21 AM
Dec 2015

Considered a lot of places, but we were nearing retirement. Canada was out for that reason
and so were most European countries (too expensive and no family connections). We looked
seriously at Belize and ended up buying in to a development in Panama (Bocas del Toro area) being
built by Americans. Talk about disaster. The thing turned into a financial nightmare--but eventually
the investors got together to salvage the place. We were very lucky--after going through all
the paperwork and getting our permanent resident visas--to eventually get our money back,
but we had to wait several years. The development has been up and running now for several
years and is beautiful. Bocas has gotten a lot of attention in the last few years.

Last summer--after the Charleston shootings--I told my husband I wanted to go take another
look at Bonaire (off the coast of Venezuela). We have friends who've had a place there for
almost 20 years. Several years ago the relationship between Bonaire and The Netherlands changed,
and it's now possible for Americans to become full time residents. I would move there in a heartbeat
but my husband has vetoed the idea. He doesn't want to give up the features of living in a classic
university town.

We have a friend who moved to Lyon, France two years ago to marry the love of his life. He was
from Kansas City area and had gone to Lyon for a summer ed class to gain credits towards his
Master's in French (he's a teacher) and met his husband to be. After they got married, he was hired as an elementary school
teacher at an International School in Lyon. He's very, very happy.

I have another friend from college who has lived her entire adult life abroad. She and her husband
are teachers. They lived in Japan for many, many years, then went to Georgia (former Soviet Union)
and two years ago relocated to Cairo. They are approaching retirement--but I don't know where
they will retire. I'd be surprised if they come back to the US.

I really think the country is on the brink of what could become disastrous violence. Racism, hatred of immigrants and
Muslims, misogyny, fear and bigotry towards gays...it just feels like the whole thing could blow at any time. It scares
the crap out of me to think there are 360 million--give or take a few--guns in this country and millions of them are in
the hands of people who have no business owning firearms.

The other thing I've considered is that living in Hawaii might not be too bad, either. Still the US but very isolated.

 

951-Riverside

(7,234 posts)
28. Absolutely
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:29 AM
Dec 2015

I lived many years of my life in a neighborhood where you would often hear gunshots, it is not fun and it is no way to live.

I'll be honest I don't like living in a country where at any moment anyone could blow me away for no reason. There are so many guns in the country that no one is safe anywhere, that is no way to live!

former9thward

(32,377 posts)
29. Where are you going to move?
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:31 AM
Dec 2015

Do you really think other countries just let you permanently move there? You have to have a lot of money or skills they want. Good luck.

 

951-Riverside

(7,234 posts)
30. I'd say figure it out and move before everybody else has the same idea
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:38 AM
Dec 2015
Do you really think other countries just let you permanently move there?


Yes, why wouldn't they?

Most countries (except for North Korea and the US) don't wall off their country and shun people from immigrating.

former9thward

(32,377 posts)
32. Dream world.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:47 AM
Dec 2015

Almost ever country does not want other people unless they have big money or skills. Try to move to our neighbor to the north and see what happens.

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
41. You need skills to live here, unless you want to live
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 10:34 AM
Dec 2015

on welfare or minmum wage, so what's the difference?


whathehell

(29,168 posts)
43. You mean the U.S. will let you live here on minimum wage or welfare
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 06:56 PM
Dec 2015

Well, since I actually work and not for minimum.wage, that doesn't concern me much.

former9thward

(32,377 posts)
48. Why is this so hard to grasp?
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 07:56 PM
Dec 2015

Other countries don't let Americans in for permanent stay unless they have a lot of money or have skills the country can use.

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
49. LOL..There's nothing to "grasp".
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 09:17 PM
Dec 2015

You're making an assertion with nothing to back it up. Haven't you yet "grasped" that this doesn't work well at DU?

former9thward

(32,377 posts)
50. What?
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 12:28 AM
Dec 2015

You want me to list the immigration requirements of every country in the world? Hey, you think it is so easy to emigrate, go for it. No one is stopping you....

whathehell

(29,168 posts)
53. Never mind, loll
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 08:48 AM
Dec 2015

I doubt you know the immigration requirements for even one other country let alone all of them.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
52. The other country has to get something out of you moving there.
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 12:44 AM
Dec 2015

If you're young, they'll get decades of taxes.
If you're rich, they'll get taxes in a much shorter timeframe.
If you have special skills (ex, famous scientist) they'll get the benefit of those skills.

Most "first world" countries won't take everyone who applies. After all, they have things like universal healthcare, so you retiring to Canada is going to cost Canada a lot of money, with you not paying them much money.

You need to research the immigration policies of any country you are considering.

PasadenaTrudy

(3,998 posts)
33. I'd like to leave the L.A. area
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 12:50 AM
Dec 2015

It feels like a pressure cooker here, it's so crowded. My goal is to live in Santa Fe, NM.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
36. Yep. If it were easy to emigrate we'd be gone.
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 02:34 AM
Dec 2015

But there are family & financial considerations and restrictions...I want to tell my kids to do their best to get the hell out.

a la izquierda

(11,811 posts)
38. You'll eventually find me in the jungles
Tue Dec 8, 2015, 07:13 AM
Dec 2015

of Mexico.
It's my area of research, I'm learning a Mayan dialect for work, and it will be more fulfilling than my current situation.

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