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DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
Wed May 30, 2012, 01:33 PM May 2012

The great Verizon FiOS ripoff

After decades of demanding and getting rate hikes and tax breaks in return for promising to deliver broadband internet access to schools, libraries, hospitals and every home and business in their territories, Verizon is now making it clear that it is no longer expanding FiOS, its fiber optic cable service.

So what did they accomplish? What did they build? And how much did it cost? Verizon claims that the company spent $23 billion dollars in rolling out FiOS since 2004. (See, for instance, this message from Tim McCallion, President of Verizon’s West Region.) That's a lot of money.

But as I stare at a decade’s worth of Verizon annual reports, I notice something odd. Where, exactly, is that $23 billion? Specifically, where are the construction budgets to support this claim?

This chart shows Verizon’s construction budgets for 2000 through 2011, taken directly from the Verizon annual SEC-filed reports. It also shows an imaginary “FiOS Bump” -- about $3.8 billion dollars per year in addition to the baseline that should have been spent annually over a 6-year period if the company had really been paying out $23 billion dollars for the construction. But the numbers show no bump in construction for FiOS; no major increases in capital expenditures in general. In fact, Verizon, on average, spent more on construction from 2000 to 2004 than from 2005 to 2011.

http://www.niemanwatchdog.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=background.view&backgroundid=631

A N.J. state commission report from June 2010 saw this coming, and noted:

"While it is possible for Verizon to extend service throughout its authorized territory, to an additional 155 municipalities in the state that are not included in its current application of 369 towns, Verizon has indicated it will now concentrate its capital expenditures, expected to be between $16.8 billion and $17.2 billion in 2010 on its wireless telephone network. Further FiOS expansion will be limited to increasing penetration in those communities where FiOS is currently available, according to the company."

(The $16.8 and $17.2 billion are the companies’ total annual construction budgets, not New Jersey only.)

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The great Verizon FiOS ripoff (Original Post) DainBramaged May 2012 OP
sounds like fios stands for "f***K you i stole your money leftyohiolib May 2012 #1
Verizon today announced up to 300Mbps speeds today. onehandle May 2012 #2
No JustAnotherGen May 2012 #3
Fios offered no strings $89.95 a month all three services for two years in NJ DainBramaged May 2012 #4
And what is the take rate? JustAnotherGen May 2012 #5
Yes, he is pushing back on the union, because he IS a dick! The scumbag isn't even in office... dmosh42 May 2012 #6
He does have experience in telecom JustAnotherGen May 2012 #7
Yes, he had experience as a 'manager', most of whom don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. dmosh42 May 2012 #8
So every single JustAnotherGen May 2012 #9
Look JustAnotherGen May 2012 #10
I have no clue about what you're referring to in your reply... dmosh42 May 2012 #12
I used to work for Verizon. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin May 2012 #11

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
2. Verizon today announced up to 300Mbps speeds today.
Wed May 30, 2012, 01:59 PM
May 2012

I got it installed last week at the 35Mbps level. Which will be bumped up to 75Mbps, if the chart at the link is to be believed.

Verizon doubles FiOS speeds to 300Mbps, thumb-twiddling waits are officially over
http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/30/verizon-doubles-fios-speeds-to-300mbps

That being said, all communications companies are criminal organizations that should be seized and nationalized.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
3. No
Wed May 30, 2012, 02:03 PM
May 2012

It has a very low take rate. EXTREMELY low take rate for the investment.

Is it more profitable to invest in the cloud/home extender/LTE or FIOS?

If the Land Line folks aren't selling FIOS - then . . . The focus has to go to Wireless . . . yet again. Consumers simply don't want the FIOS product. And look at this - Wireless folks don't even get a discount on it. My triple play is with Cablevision - even though FIOS is available in my town/area - because it's a better deal in terms of my monthly budget.


Step back and put all the nuts and bolts together - why do you think Lowell is pushing back on the Union? Just to be a dick?

Or does he have wireless organization that is maxed out in terms of our work load - and he's probably more afraid of us simply not coming to work one day because we get hit with yet ANOTHER raise in our personal cost for health insurance - than he is the less profitable side of the house.

Tough - very tough . . . This is why if you research my posts I'm really pro the Union and state - the best way to help them is to go buy FIOS. Plain old telephone service doesn't really make money anymore - FIOS is its back fill. But - again - consumers - seem to want to stick with Time Warner, Cablevision, Comcast, etc. etc.

Just because you build/make something doesn't mean people have to or WANT to buy it.

DainBramaged

(39,191 posts)
4. Fios offered no strings $89.95 a month all three services for two years in NJ
Wed May 30, 2012, 02:14 PM
May 2012

except only about 1.5% of the residents can get FIOS.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
5. And what is the take rate?
Wed May 30, 2012, 02:20 PM
May 2012

Example - my feedback in terms of a Finance Transformation -

Enough already with the apartment complexes. Me? I live in one in Somerset County. And this is a 'yuppie' town - which means people are transient. And that means . . .


Me included - an employee of the Evil Empire Wireless - isn't doing anything for two years.

I said this a few years back when in Marketing - WHYYYYYYYYYY would you do a two year subscription? It makes sense in wireless since all cell providers actually subsidize their customer's phones.

Last I heard - you don't have to purchase an HDTV from Verizon at a deep discount in order to use their service . . .

I pay $76 and change to Cablevision for the same services - plus I get HBO - like 9 different channels so I can ensure I can catch real time (I'm not good with the DVR thing). And if I move at the end of the year - I'm not 'trapped' in a program.


dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
6. Yes, he is pushing back on the union, because he IS a dick! The scumbag isn't even in office...
Wed May 30, 2012, 02:27 PM
May 2012

more than a year and he wants to more than double his pay and benefits. Why? He doesn't know shit about the business, but knows how to extract the money. He has no record of good performance, just another parasite we see on the corporate scene in our 'rigged' economy. I retired from NY tel about twenty years ago. The US was rated about fifth in the world for advanced telecommunications, with the central office equipment ready to work with a fiber network. The speculation goes that the execs figured it would be too costly to invest in new fiber on a large scale, and, hopefully, the gov't would give them money incentives. Well, last I read, we are now rated number 18 among civilized countries. I completely agree that all these 'necessary' companies that handle communications, electric, transportation and energy need to be nationalized. But I guess that won't happen until the parasites squeeze every dollar out that they can.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
7. He does have experience in telecom
Wed May 30, 2012, 02:54 PM
May 2012

Leveraging his time spent in the Navy . . .Note: He was executive vp and coo for the Wireless team. It just might be where his heart is. And having worked under him - he never asked anything from the Wireless team that he wouldn't do himself - or hasn't done himself.

There are HUGE culture clashes within the organization that are in play here.

On the one hand - people like me - who have had to work 60 + hours a week - writing Welcome SMS messages for global travelers at 2 AM in order to get it launched on time. Or the Device Launch person who has to stay very late reviewing a Moto user guide because they just pulled the launch date in by three weeks. Or the Global Customer Service Manager - who never truly gets a day off (24 x 7 x 365 day a year business).


What you are seeing - because you ARE a veteran of this business - is the move from a Public Utility (pots) to a Techie Retail environment.

Truthfully? I agree on pots. Seriously - let it go at a song and make it a Federal Government service. BTW - started at Frontier comm in the 1990's - got swallowed up by the Glotanic (Global Double Crossing) as part of the Carrier group. Not NEARLY as contentious as that was with people throwing mugs and laptops at each other in meetings - but we're probably not that far away from that level of toxic in our work environment.


Wireless is tired. We're tired of working hard, footing the bill for everyone else (let's talk about that calling card business down in VA *sigh*), and hearing that it's never enough. Not just from teams such as landline that don't carry their own water - but the consumers/American public who do not realize the total inequity the wireless teams are subjected to.


If we could at least not HAVE TO see people roll into work at 9 AM, go to breakfast for 45 minutes, answer a few emails, go to lunch for 45 minutes, the gym for an hour, then roll out by 4 PM - it would make the environment tolerable. The idea of a lunch break to a wireless employee is insane. What is lunch? What people do in the banking industry? The wealthy and affluent? Or just our peers in buildings 1, 2, and 3?

No answer - but I know FIOS - if handed over to a Wireless Task Force Marketing Team - could be profitable in three quarters. One to deconstruct the business model, craft a marketing plan, and execute to delivery. One quarter to allow Marcomm and PR to work their magic. And one quarter to get the sales and service teams up to par.

But because there is such a resistance to us 'young punks in building 6 and 7' -it's not going to happen. When someone like me (who relaunched what ended up becoming one our highest ARPU products) is telling them to get rid of the effing 2 year plans - I mean it.

If it's a 'burden' to the wireless consumer - why isn't that seen as a detraction to the landline consumer? I think it is - but the consumer isn't cognizant of that. It's other reasons - but I think it's those two year plans. Another thing - Add in bundles of International Long Distance from the landline. This could kill the wireless service - because wireless has the hand off cost. My husband is from Italy and calls Germany and Italy on a daily basis. Many of our neighbors hail from Poland, Estonia, Pakistan, Egypt, the Caribbean, Paraguay, and India. We have a very diverse complex. The cablevision sends people around to help sell us on their ILD bundles.

Seriously - you can't beat it. We were still using my ILD discount on wireless to call abroad in February. Between Skype over Cablevision internet and and our ILD bundle - our monthly international bill dropped $80.

Change the business model - change the take rate. Make landline profitable - or just sell it cheap to the Fed.
Take the burden off Wireless.
Happier employees all the way around.

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
8. Yes, he had experience as a 'manager', most of whom don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
Wed May 30, 2012, 03:18 PM
May 2012

And I did a few years on active duty for the USN, and doubt he was ever on a ship. Probably in Wash. DC, kissing ass and watching the stock market prices. Not to be negative to you martyrs in wireless, but you forget where the capital came from to set up this non-union wireless empire. And what happened to the obligation of utility companies who were given the privilege to have a monopoly so many years ago? It was given in order to have universal service at a reasonable price. Rather than investing the money to have decent service for everyone, the parasites sucked out all they could, screwing the customers, and promising cheaper service with the non-regulated entry. Like the stock markets and other things, the public was fed the bullshit that it would be better for everyone not to have regulation, while the crooks had their way!

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
9. So every single
Wed May 30, 2012, 04:11 PM
May 2012

Person in Corporate America in a 'techie' environment in a management position is a blood sucking parasite?

Hmmmmmm . . . I seem to recall this one going to Occupy Wall Street demonstrations and dropping donuts off for the Union Workers that protest at HQ.


So - Was 'Saint' Steve Jobs a blood sucking parasite too?


And I didn't forget where the money came from. I just don't care. I would have loved to have had a job at Xerox or Kodak - but lots of utility workers bought Fuji and Nikon and Kyocera so - I had no choice but to go into the Profit Driven Wireless Market. ETA: From Rochester - most people there used to be able to count on a job at Xerox, Kodak, B & L - What is happening to the rest of America is old news to us Rochestarians. American Consumers turned on Rochester first.

You DO realize for someone who was born in the early 1970's - I have ZERO concept of a cradle to grave employment environment . . . Most of us Gen X and younger have no idea. It's gone. It's not coming back.

You just survive. Peace - enjoy the retirement.

JustAnotherGen

(31,810 posts)
10. Look
Wed May 30, 2012, 04:19 PM
May 2012
And what happened to the obligation of utility companies who were given the privilege to have a monopoly so many years ago? It was given in order to have universal service at a reasonable price. Rather than investing the money to have decent service for everyone, the parasites sucked out all they could, screwing the customers, and promising cheaper service with the non-regulated entry
.

We can't keep crying in our coffee here . . . I think you are passionate and commend that due to what was probably many years of service working for a utility.


And note - I agreed with you - I truly believe plain old telephone service SHOULD be nationalized.
Along with Gas, Electric and well - gas.
I don't think anyone should make profit off of oil drilled and/or refined in the US.


But I don't understand why an Apple or an HTC or a Google is Good - but a VZW, AT & T, Sprint, T-Mo - is bad. If we are the devils - will you then also call them a devil? Because really - they are in bed with us like you would never believe.

dmosh42

(2,217 posts)
12. I have no clue about what you're referring to in your reply...
Thu May 31, 2012, 08:08 AM
May 2012

Evidently you're not happy with whatever you're doing, so move on to something else where you might have a talent. Have a good life, just don't bend over while you're working for Verizon, as your turn will come!

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(107,922 posts)
11. I used to work for Verizon.
Wed May 30, 2012, 04:40 PM
May 2012

I was a GTE employee before they merged with Bell Atlantic to form Verizon. I now work for the spin-off known as Frontier. Have over thirty years experience in the business.

GTE used to do an excellent job of maintaining the network. We saw the quality go down after the merger.

GTE had an overfunded pension fund that was immediately siphoned off after the two companies merged.

Verizon did sink money into FIOS in some of the exchanges here in the Pacific Northwest but not all. Those areas that were neglected were done so big time.

Verizon was able to sucker Frontier into taking over many of its rural serving areas. The quality of outside plant and broadband service in many of these areas was abyssmal.

I'm hoping I can retire soon to preserve my pension in case Frontier goes the route of other Verizon spin-offs and declares bankruptcy.


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