Ok, so people are supposed to save for their retirement AND for their children's college fund????

[a kennedy]

Sorry.....our local news just had a topic on college debt and an financial planner saying save, save, save. and really HOW THE HELL DO PEOPLE SAVE WHEN THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO EVEN LIVE ON. I'm going to be lonely in my old age, with not having any children, but at least I'll won't have to worry about my kids, and my kid's kids financial problems. What the heck happened to the American middle class???

[Brickbat]

1. Yes. And when everyone does it the news runs articles about how the economy is dying

because no one is spending.

[randys1]

2. And the teaparty, 95% of which are middle to lower middle class, are arguing in FAVOR

of the assholes who are doing this to everybody.

We are too stupid of a society to fix ourselves as long as they insist on being uneducated.

[fleur-de-lisa]

67. +1

Except I don't think we are the stupid ones.

[Octafish]

3. Don't forget to take care of your parents, people.

Remember, the Old One's who were going to leave you something, but had to spend it on the health care?

It is as if there are two US of As -- one for those with the bucks and another for those who have sacrificed everything to play by the rules and do the right thing. Those are the former middle class and a sizable chunk of the poor.

[malokvale77]

82. If I may expand on this a little.

Both my children have been helping me for years. One pays my monthly cell phone bill, and the other helps with major expenses, such as car repairs and yearly property taxes. Neither one is swimming in money.

They do this because they know the reason I have no savings is because I gave it all to them years ago.

I took care of my parents, who took care of their parents. This is what decent people do, no matter how poor we are.

Thank you Octafish for the reminder.

[wickerwoman]

103. It depends on the parents.

I know what you're trying to say, but sorry it just irritates me when people make generalisations like "decent people take care of their parents". Some people were abused or abandoned or raped by their parents. Some people were kicked out of their homes for being gay or not falling in line with their parents' religion or falling in love with someone their racist parents didn't approve of. Some people had parents who stole from them or hit their other parents or have substance abuse issues or are compulsive gamblers or belong to cults. I don't make judgements about other people based on relationships where I can only see the slightest tip of the iceberg or where I am clearly only hearing one side of the story.

There are any number of reasons why an adult may choose not to financially support their parents. I think that's their business and doesn't mean they aren't a "decent" person.

[malokvale77]

112. You are right.

I apologize, some parents don't desire jack shit.

I was thinking in my own bubble, which I try not to do. Mea culpa.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. I went the way you did.

Decided early on not to have kids. (At least not human ones.) As did a number of my more intelligent college friends.

We may or may not have enough to 'retire' on, but at least we won't be letting any kids down by passing them less than our parents passed us.

[meaculpa2011]

53. We decided to become parents fairly late...

in life. We had been married for twenty years before they arrived.

Our two kids have brought us joys and heartaches, but enriched our lives in ways we cannot express.

[pangaia]

108. Are you saying that people who DO decide to have children are not intelligent?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

110. What I'm saying is

that if you're looking to be offended by anything I say, go for it. Read whatever you want into what I say, rather than simply take it at face value.

If I say a number of very bright folks decided not to have kids, and you want to get all huffy and say I'm saying people with kids are stupid, go right ahead and enjoy feeling that that I'm some person who hates parents. I'm not wasting my time arguing with folks who want to find ways to be offended.

[pangaia]

111. HUH? What in the world are you talking about.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

113. I'm talking about the weird ass things I often get accused of on DU.

But if you're not going there, then no, I wasn't saying that people with kids are stupid. I was just pointing out that most of the other PhD types I ran with at school also decided to skip having kids.

[truedelphi]

5. Well apparently we in the middle class just did not work hard enough

Or save enough either!!!

.
The other thing that bugs me about these stories is that most people no longer have a savings account because if you have savings it is taxed. So anyone who can afford to save in any meaningful way puts their money into IRA or 401K's etc. But the news people don't take that into consideration!

[1939]

55. Savings aren't taxed

Only the interest or dividends earned on savings is taxed.

[JonLeibowitz]

78. The point is with tax-deferred contributions you are only taxed once vs taxable savings accounts

where you are taxed twice on the interest. Yes, this makes a big difference in practice.

[truedelphi]

104. Money you earn before you put it into a savings account is taxed, whereas many retirement money

Funds have matching funds from the employer, so you are not paying the tax on their end.

And sometimes you aren't paying taxes until a deferred time. (IRA's I believe are like that.)

If you leave the funds aside until you retire, then you never pay any taxes on them. You only pay taxes if you "early withdraw."

[1939]

121. You pay a penalty for early withdrawal

In addition to the tax on the moeny. Even after you retire, the money withdrawn is taxed as it is withdrawn. The theory is that you will be in a lower tax bracket when you retire than you were when you were putting the money away tax deferred..

[Warpy]

6. Conservatives in both parties destroyed the middle class

by refusing to raise the minimum wage to keep pace with inflation. That dragged all other wages down, so forget about either sending the kids to college, even community college, and definitely forget about the golden years, they're just going to be the grey years, spent working a ptachwork of part time jobs to survive on Social Security since our pensions were robbed along with our wages.

If you're not furious about this, you're just not paying attention.

[Phlem]

27. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^this!

[JDPriestly]

52. Add to that our disastrous trade policies that pit American middle

class workers against foreign workers who can live on less than we do in their less sophisticated, less packaged, less sanitary societies and who are paid very little even compared to their cost of living.

I used to be the service rep at a telephone company. That was many years ago. Now, when you call your phone company because you have a problem, you will speak to a representative in the Philippines or maybe in India, only occasionally in the US.

Those service rep jobs did not pay all that badly. You could live a lower middle class life on the income back when I had the job. Probably how well you could live depended on where you lived.

But today, those jobs are gone. A lot of secretarial jobs have been eliminated thanks to technology.

And we haven't found a way to make up for the losses of those jobs.

How long will this economy work for ordinary Americans?

Even the very, very bright, well educated people in our society worry about getting a job, about keeping a job, about providing for their children, maybe trying to buy a house.

Things are much tougher than the media acknowledges. I don't know what is going to happen.

It's partly for these reasons that I am backing Bernie. He seems to be the only candidate close enough to the middle class to understand just how difficult the job market, the competition for a decent income and the cost of living are making life for so many good, hard-working Americans.

[CrispyQ]

66. Don't forget the for-profit-prison system,

where inmates work for slave wages & in some cases, work for free to get time off their sentence. How do you compete with someone who works for free?

I would never have imagined, when I was young, how fucked up this country would get.

[JDPriestly]

80. Me either.

[malokvale77]

84. "where inmates work for slave wages & in some cases, work for free to get time off their sentence"

This is happening in State prisons also. I could expand on this if anyone was interested.

[CrispyQ]

85. I'm interested.

I'm disgusted that corporations are making money off the imprisonment of fellow citizens on specious charges, like possessing an ounce of weed. Let all the weed related crimes out of jail now. For-profit-prison systems = taxpayer money to lock up your neighbor for minor charges. Hope you aren't next, sucker.

It is such a huge issue deserving of it's own post. Please post.

[malokvale77]

87. Let me start with this...

I have a very dear friend who is currently in the TDCJ system for (you guessed it) weed possession.

He was eligible for parole last June, but a magical unexplained (H) denial cropped up at the parole board hearing.

He was shortly transferred to a facility that has a furniture making workshop (office furniture and cubicles for a private company). He happens to be a very accomplished carpenter and cabinet maker. He refused the cushy work based on principle. They now have him working custodial duty as punishment.

He's also the best mechanic I have ever known. He has rebuilt steam engines (handmade leather parts) to operate like new.

This guy is one of the most talented, gentle souls I have ever known. But here is, locked away in prison, because he likes a little weed to settle his complicated brain.

[FLPanhandle]

7. Children are incredibly expensive even without college

No one should embark on the having children path unless they are financially stable and secure enough.

One of the biggest factors in poverty is having children young before completing an education or starting a career.

Frankly instead of "HOW THE HELL DO PEOPLE SAVE WHEN THEY DON'T MAKE ENOUGH TO EVEN LIVE ", I would say "Why the hell are you having children if you don't make enough to even live".

[Live and Learn]

9. You do realize that people were having children long before the monetary system was created. nt

[FLPanhandle]

13. and they didn't have to pay for food, clothing, education, entertainment, medical expenses, etc. nt

[Live and Learn]

14. So, you want to make having children contigent on one's salary?

How would you go about that?

What about those that were making enough but lost jobs or ran in to health issues? What would you do about their children?

[Arugula Latte]

16. ...

[Live and Learn]

19. Yep, some here are in need of those Christmas ghosts too. nt

[FLPanhandle]

22. Childre are expensive

It's just a fact.

[LanternWaste]

116. As is self-existence.

As is self-existence. It's just a fact. If one cannot maintain the financial planning and responsibility to exist, then one neither planned enough nor worked hard enough...

[FLPanhandle]

18. No, but people need to understand what a massive financial commitment having a child requires

Sure, you could be financially secure enough and something unforeseen happens. That is the exception though. Look at the statistics of the number of children by family income. The number of children/family goes down as income bracket goes up.

Look at the statistics of the number of children living below the poverty line.

Like it or not, children can make you much poorer and keep you poorer. If you don't have much to start with, then you are stuck.

[Live and Learn]

20. Or, we could implement policies as a society that ensure fairness and the sucess of our children.

[FLPanhandle]

21. Maybe but that is not the reality of the situation today

The reality of today's world is that children are an incredible expense. Not sure why that basic fact is controversial or "scrooge" like? It's just simple reality.

[Live and Learn]

23. Telling people not to have children just isn't a realistic solution. nt

[FLPanhandle]

38. I would say ignoring reality isn't a realistic or logical solution either.

Especially since having children is a choice people make now unlike in the past.

[Live and Learn]

39. Really? You have a 100% effective and easily affordable birth control method?

Actually, it is a fact that poorer people tend to have more children because children in those households can actually help out and ensure survival of the family.

Your rather judgmental view of the poor and their children is duly noted, however.

[Blecht]

28. I am nostalgic for the time when people were ashamed to say shit like this in public

The simple reality is that talk about only having kids if you have "enough money" is fascist at best.

[FLPanhandle]

35. Facts aren't fascist

Facts are facts. You are emotional about the fact that children are expensive and detrimental to financial security. Fine, be upset by it, but that doesn't make children less expense.

[Live and Learn]

40. Financial security is never guaranteed, children or not. nt

[Blecht]

44. I'm not upset.

Not in the least.

Nor emotional.

Saying that only certain groups should have children is fascist. That is a fact.

[FLPanhandle]

70. Fascists would control who has children.

I never said anything about a law or control.

I said people shouldn't choose to have children if they aren't ready for the financial commitment.

Your emotions read a lot more into a simple statement than was there.

[MadDAsHell]

26. "20. Or, we could implement policies...that ensure fairness and the sucess of our children"

Curiosity killing my cat...how exactly do you guarantee success to everyone?

We all know people (my brother is one) to whom you can give all all the resources in the world, and he's never going to get out of his own way.

I love him to death but it's just a fact that not all of us are equally motivated, or equally care about out futures or even our kids futures.

In what practical manner could we ever as a society GUARANTEE success to everyone? Give the lazy lobotomies?

[Live and Learn]

31. No, but we can study the brain to find solutions. In fact, we are.

President Obama is making new investments in the “BRAIN” Initiative — a bold new research effort to revolutionize our understanding of the human mind and uncover new ways to treat, prevent, and cure brain disorders like Alzheimer’s, schizophrenia, autism, epilepsy, and traumatic brain injury.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/share/brain-initiative

[stevenleser]

69. Please explain how to save for a house, their college, retirement and unexpected contingencies

Last edited Sat Dec 12, 2015, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

While paying for rent, daycare and all other expenses on an average middle class salary.

[malokvale77]

88. Whoa...

please explain your support for a candidate who doesn't give a shit about the average middle class salary, much less the poverty stricken negative salary.

[stevenleser]

117. I dont support such a candidate. nt

[malokvale77]

86. Just a thought...

maybe they had children before their financial situation went to hell.

Another thought...the belief in an ancient myth that says we need to be fruitful and multiply.

PS: I know many people who are childless and can not make daily expenses, much less save for the future.

[wickerwoman]

107. +1

Someone still has their head in the 1950s where you graduate college, get the job you'll have for the rest of your life, get married, buy a house and then have kids.

Most people today will have at least seven different jobs, will have to move to different cities for those jobs, will have downtime in between them when they have to retrain. I could have supported kids for about three years in my early thirties, then would have been homeless with them for four or five years, now could support them again, tomorrow who knows?

Being able to support kids for twenty continuous years has always been a crap shoot but the odds have gotten a lot worse in the last thirty years.

[malokvale77]

115. Yes...

even though I have been in the same place since I was 17 (hard to believe), I can't count the jobs I have had to support my kids and grandkids.

For the naysayers: I was in a 18 year marriage, before the EX moved on to a multi-million dollar trust fund recipient.

For the rest of us: I have a great relationship with my kids and grandkids. The EX has regrets.

[dumbcat]

8. Of course not. Someone else should work to pay

for our retirement and our kid's college education. What the hell are they thinking?

[Live and Learn]

10. Or, our taxes could go to paying such things instead of oil wars for corporations.

Jheesh, what a novel idea.

[fleur-de-lisa]

74. + 1,000 eom

[fleur-de-lisa]

73. Just curious . . .

How did you arrive at your DU name?

[malokvale77]

90. LOL. nt

[fleur-de-lisa]

91. I'm guessing that the first half of the name isn't a coincidence. eom

[malokvale77]

122. Sorry fleur-de-lisa...

I'm deleting that reply - it wasn't meant for you.

I had two threads open.

[malokvale77]

89. WTF? nt

[dumbcat]

118. Was that supposed to be meaningful

or cogent is some way? Or is that just the totality of your thought process?

Did you really want to say something worthy of the bandwidth? Give it a try.

[Live and Learn]

11. K&R The next generations are going to suffer even more. If something isn't done, unrest will be

certain to follow.

[malokvale77]

93. ^^^ this ^^^

I feel sorry for the fat cats and the wannabes (not).

[greymattermom]

12. Don't forget

that they're supposed to do that while paying for day care.

[Quantess]

15. No, dummy!

You're supposed to remain childless and then be thankful for as long as you remain strong and healthy enough to find a roof over your head.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. The jobs that used to be handled by four people are now done by one....

And the one only gets half of the pay that EACH of the prior workers got.

As far as college: Tuition used to be free. There were grants to cover the costs of your books. There were even grants for housing.

Republicans even talk with contempt over giving college, medical and home deals for veterans.

[Live and Learn]

32. Yep, and the prductivity gains only went to the 1%. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. I've likened it to busting your ass for your boss to get a multi-million dollar deal....

You are expecting a raise for all of your hard work and devotion and he says it was part of your job so shut up about a raise or even a bonus because you are nothing. You're nobody.

Then you see your boss kissing some young woman covered in diamonds and firs next to her brand new Cadillac.

Question: Do you share the video with his wife or ask him to reconsider first?

[Live and Learn]

58. It is even worse than that. You will get a pick slip for your efforts as he moves the

company overseas and hires workers for peanuts.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

63. Or he sells it to Romney.

[Live and Learn]

65. Heaping insult upon insult. nt

[malokvale77]

95. I'm thinking...

he's never going to reconsider, (and will probably have you killed) so better let his wife bring that smarmy asshole down.

Just a thought.

[1939]

56. Only in a few states

While tuition was more reasonable, in most states tuition was not free (at least fifty-plus years ago when i was in college). Textbooks were a hell of a lot cheaper and the faculty worked for a hell of a lot less.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

64. It wasn't the cost of a house.

[malokvale77]

96. It definitely wasn't the cost of the rest of your life. nt

[airplaneman]

24. come on its simple - save for these basic accounts

401 K retirement account
also a ROTH IRA is a good idea
Children's college fund
Next car account
Health Savings account
Emergency Savings account
Mad money account
Christmas account
Vacation account
Personal savings account
Rainy day account
Come on now people what are you doing with all your extra money?
-Airplane

[hibbing]

30. Health Savings Accounts

Gosh that one drives me nuts. That is the republican's solution to people without insurance. See, what you do is, you take some of your money and put it into one of these accounts and then when you need medical care you simply take it out of there, so simple.


Peace

[mopinko]

33. and dont pay taxes on it.

hsa's are pretax accounts. some of us know for sure that we will have to cough up $3k a year for medical expenses. put that money away pretax and you save yourself 25-30%.

[hibbing]

34. assumes you can do that

[mopinko]

37. you are going to fork over the money one way or another.

if you know you will have those expenses, it is dumb not to have an hsa.
lots of employers take them out of your check before you even see it. the best way to save.

and tho i agree that some people really cant save, most can. at least enough to get ahead of the emergencies that land you in debt. you pay either way. you pay more if you dont save.

[airplaneman]

49. My employer dumped an HRA for an HSA this year.

I have to admit this has really changed my mode for medical care.
With the HRA it was use it or loose it so when my doctor wanted me to take meds or get a blood test it was no out of pocket and in general I felt that if I needed medical care I would seek it out. With the HSA although I do get 25% back in taxes it represents a significant increase in my costs for medical care. My mode is now to avoid getting medical care as it is going to cost me so I will no longer seek it out if needed unless I feel I have no choice. So I essentially will avoid medical care the best I can because blood test, meds, and doctor visits in general are outrageously expensive and now I have to pay for them. I am already forking out 5K just for the policy with a 5K deductible. Meds that I have been taking have doubled and tripled this year and I am already going to every other day on some and considering stop taking the most expensive ones and look for holistic alternatives. The bullshit I hear that it will cost you anyway is not reality. Reality is that I will seek out healthcare if it is not going to wipe me out financially and I will not seek out healthcare when I have to pay for every visit and every test and every med in full with my money.
-Airplane

[CrispyQ]

68. What a heartbreaking post.

It says so much about our country & values as a nation. Profit before everything.

Sending positive vibes your way.

[malokvale77]

97. Except...

If you don't need it that year it disappears into the great beyond.

[Phlem]

25. A complicit Third Way strain.

When the top brass are all Investment Bankers and the 1%, is that any different than what the Republicans want, sans the bigotry and stupid?

Let's promote and steep in Social Justice but be Republicans on Economics Justice for 40+ years.

This is what you have.

I spent my early years growing up in the Philippines where Jesus lives yet most of the country is poor with a very few, very well to do.

Despair makes people do horrible things. I hope things don't get any worse but it seems to me like we're on our way.

If we invest in the American citizen, we can be a strong nation again. College graduates flipping burgers, in over their head in debt and shipping livable wage jobs over seas is NOT investing the the American people.

I have a 4th grade girl, she's 9 and her birthday is the day after mine. I'm never going to stop working for a better future for her. I think it's all getting a little personal for a LOT of people.

Hang in there and keep fighting the good fight. We lose when we quit. It's about time we start crushing.

Together.

[CrispyQ]

71. "Let's promote and steep in Social Justice but be Republicans on Economics Justice for 40+ years."

And they wonder why the Goldman Sachs candidate doesn't appeal to old time dems. The playing field has always been skewed, but it's tilting more everyday & people are falling into the abyss. And a good number of them are armed & pissed off.

[malokvale77]

101. Knowing the whole time ...

there is no social justice without economic justice.

Yes armed and pissed. Gun control is not a winning strategy for the less than wealthy democratic base.

[elmac]

29. And don't forget healthcare savings accounts

if the fascists get in and do away with ACA.

[CTyankee]

61. and tell your kids to join the armed services in order to get a college education...

back before I retired 10 years ago there were lots of youngish folks at my office who went straight from high school into the services in order to get the educational benefit. Now they were working and going to school at night. It was the American Way...is is still that way?

[malokvale77]

102. How about...

fuck both and have healthcare for all?

[hobbit709]

41. I'm already retired and got no kids. Ain't got no money either.

[malokvale77]

105. I just retired...

Ain't got no money, but I do have two kids and three grandkids who care about me.

I am lucky.

[SamKnause]

42. ..........and pay the taxes the corporations are refusing to pay

and finance the never ending war machine.

Tax incentives, subsidies, and golden parachutes for the corporations.

Poverty, pain, and death for the 99%.

The powers that be are evil to the core !!!!

[fleur-de-lisa]

99. Bingo! eom

[malokvale77]

106. Sounds like the...

Hillary presidential plan. Yay.

[SheilaT]

43. There are several problems about college these days.

First off is that everyone has been bamboozled into thinking a four year degree is the only way to go, whether or not a person is actually interested in spending that time in school.

The second is that it's perfectly okay to borrow for college. Doesn't everyone?

Parents and their college bound children need to educate themselves (irony intended) about what the real costs and benefits are. As I tell young people all the time, it's fine to major in something you love, but never lose sight of the fact that after you get out of school you're going to have to support yourself. So keep that in mind when choosing a major.

Lots of kids would be better off going to a community college and taking a certificate course in something that will lead to a paying job afterwards. And if you love intellectual pursuits, nothing will stop you from continuing to take classes. But don't forget about needing to earn a living.

Kids, If you do go to a four year school, research the actual job opportunities in your intended major. Parents, make it crystal clear that they are on their own after four years. An exception can be made for studies such as engineering, which typically do take five years to complete. But engineers get good jobs that pay well. But anthropology or art history or 17th century French poetry? You're not going to get a job in those fields with just a B.A. So keep that in mind.

Here's my personal experience: Older son (has Asperger's which accounts for a lot) initially flunked out of two different colleges, finally got an associates degree in CAD, computer aided design. He finally got a temporary position in that field, and eventually returned to college for a physics degree, his first love. He has just this week completed the coursework for his bachelor's (he'll be 33 in two weeks) and has his applications in for PhD schools in astrophysics. Meanwhile, he's doing paid research, and previously held various jobs including data input for some physicians, and math tutoring at a junior college. The very nice thing about the hard sciences is that at the graduate level those students no longer have to pay for their degree.

Younger son completed college in four years (hooray!) and graduated cum laude (another hooray!). When he told me he'd decided to major in psychology, he said, "Mom, this is the major for kids who don't know what they want to major in."

So I told him to pick up some sort of business minor, which he did, marketing. He loved all his coursework and learned a lot, but I could not get him to contact his college's placement office for internships or any such thing. Summers he came back home and did pizza delivery. Which is what he does to this day. Pizza delivery. I wish I could brag about his fabulous job somewhere, but he supports himself, because he knows that if he were to ask either me or his father for money we'd tell him to get another job. What he does is honest work, and did I mention he supports himself?

I happen to be equally proud of both sons.

Most people aren't sufficiently practical about the realities of college. Undertaking huge debt is often a mistake, unless it's in a field that will lead directly to highly paid employment. And even that's a risk, if you don't land one of the best jobs in that field.

[redstateblues]

81. Boom- Great post!

This whole idea that you have to borrow $140,000 to get a degree in English Lit from a prestigious private university is ridiculous. There are may ways to earn a degree other than this whole "go into debt" approach. Community college will be free in TN soon. Thanks for sharing your story.

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. Yes

[PowerToThePeople]

47. I have accepted that I will retire under a freeway overpass.

If I do not enjoy it, I can always jump off the overpass.

Hopefully I land on a neo-liberal's windshield.

[malokvale77]

109. Please don't jump.

I will feed, clothe and shelter you if you have any skill to offer.

[PowerToThePeople]

119. I am not a slave.

Last edited Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Fuck off.

I would rather jump if it comes to that.

(Edit - looking at your posts in this thread, it would appear that you are on the correct side of the issue. Possibly look at your statement here and think on what you have said in this instance.)

[malokvale77]

123. Sorry that came off sounding like that.

I don't have much myself, but I do have a house with extra rooms. I occasionally offer room, board and meals to people going through rough times, or just needing temporary accommodations while getting their affairs in order.

I have two housemates now. One has been here since 1999, the other since 2001. Neither are slaves. They can come and go as they please.

I had a third housemate, but he is currently a ward of the TDCJ for marijuana possession.

Once again I am sorry for insulting you. I certainly didn't mean to. I was offering a way forward.

[Waldorf]

48. Middle class got shipped overseas. When it became cheaper to produce outside the USA

and then ship it in that was the death knell.

[Jim Beard]

50. Good thread title but needs amending.................

They are supposed to payoff student loans save for their retirement AND for their children's college fund????

[CTyankee]

60. so you are a debtor and then you become indebted to save a smidgeon for something

you could laughably called a "retirement fund" and go straight into debt trying to pay bills and pay into your kids college fund. If it weren't for the fact that my ex husband got remarried to a woman he forbade having children with, and she supported him and that helped support my kids in monthly payments...well, that's how I scraped along...

[Docreed2003]

51. Great thread...

Although, I've been admonished by some from the Baby Boomer Generation on this board that concerns that our generation has about paying for our kids college, saving for retirement, and, almost forgot, paying monthly for student loans, is just our generation crying because we borrowed too much or we weren't as responsible as their generation or we don't work as hard. To those retorts, I say "Fuck that". Our generation borrowed to pay for exorbitant tuitions, tuitions that couldn't be payed by merely holding a part time job. We have fought for every dime we have, we pay our student loan debt, and yet we have families to support. So, yes, we could have chosen not to have children, but we did...and now many of us in the Gen X/Y realm are dealing with paying for student loans and mortgages while at the same time planning for our children's future, while balancing a retirement plan. The issues we face today, while on the surface may be similar to prior generations, are vastly different, namely because the cost of EVERYTHING is exponentially higher than it was for prior generations. It's far past time for a change...

[Hepburn]

54. What happened to the American middle class? Ronnie Raygun. n/t

[AngryOldDem]

57. What world do these people live in?

There is NO middle class anymore. Three decades-plus of conservatism has taken care of that.

People are told to pull themselves up by their proverbial bootstraps, but what if they don't have the damn boots, let alone straps, to do that?

[CTyankee]

59. Five years before I actually did retire I remember we had those college savings accouts

for your kids and I put a little in those. I also had a 401k (or whatever they were called)and I squeezed out a few dollars each pay period there. Employer covered health care but I remember worrying about massive costing medical bills (which never actually happened, thank god).

I ended up with $50,000 in retirement savings and try retiring on that -- I had a career working for nonprofits who had low to no budgets for employee retirement plans (that wonderful tax break you got for saving were useless because I wasn't making that much to begin with!).

When I actually could retire was when my mother died and left me enough money to get reinvested and help me into a modest retirement. I've learned not to worry as I used to...just do the best you can...

[alarimer]

62. College needs to be free or nearly so.

And Social Security needs to be increased, not decreased.

I have some savings, but not much because I paid off student loans.

[fleur-de-lisa]

72. We got fucked backwards, forwards and sideways!

You got it! If you are lucky enough to have an employer who provides a 401k plan, the financial adviser is likely taking up to 50% of what you and your employer contribute (and this is legal, thanks to the fucking republicans-good luck even finding out what they are stealing from you!).

And now a college education is unaffordable for most families.

I am caught in this trap. As a single mom, I am paying 100% of my daughter's college loan. She cannot afford to help pay them. What I pay each month toward her loans is far more than I contribute to my own 401k plan.

I don't think I will ever be able to retire, and I've been contributing to a 401k plan for more than 30 years.

Where is all the money that evaporated during the financial collapse? It didn't just disappear. The billionaire fucks made out like bandits while the rest of us, who played by the rules and did everything we were supposed to do to secure our financial future, we're royally fucked!

At some point, it's going to come to 'EAT THE RICH!'.

[reformist2]

75. We unchained the capitalist monster, and it is dragging us back to the 19th century.

I'm not sure people realize how much the middle class owes its very existence to containing capitalism.

[RandySF]

76. We're putting our kid through parochial school

The biggest bang for the buck is at the k-12 level. College is in his own. We're also saving for retirement.

[hill2016]

77. if people don't save for their retirement and kid's college

who is supposed to pay for it?

[CTyankee]

83. Look to socialist western Europe for your answer...the answer is strong social programs

that pays for higher ed and for retirement of all...a broad safety net that everyone pays into knowing they will get the rewards once they retire (the health benefits are there for everyone, young to old). It's simple. It's called democratic socialism.

[hill2016]

98. if people don't save for their retirement and kid's college

what makes you think they can or will pay for other people's?

[CTyankee]

100. they won't unless it is part of the taxation system. That is what Europeans do.

[Arugula Latte]

79. Also, you're supposed to spend, spend, spend on the latest gadgets to keep the economy

pumping along!

[Carolina]

92. not to mention

savings accounts earn zip and the stock market is huge GAMBLE. How the fuck is anyone supposed to save anything?

I am sick and tired of hearing this shit from overpaid news/infotainment readers

Sorry for the swearing but if there is anything that warrants profanity, it's this kind of BS!

[El Supremo]

114. Simple answer: Don't have children.

Unless they become rich and spend it all on you.

[winter is coming]

120. I'm old enough to remember when that was possible.

Oddly enough, the people who made that impossible don't seem to know that things have changed.