General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAll but one BART rider ignore unconscious man
What would you do? A man named John posted this picture on his Facebook page with this caption:
"This was my morning: an unconscious man lies on the floor of a packed BART train while dozens of commuters ignore him. This in the wealthiest city in the wealthiest country in the world. WTF has happened to us?"
John says he waited for a few minutes to see if anyone was going to help the man. No one did.
So John checked on him:
"And as soon as I went over to see if he was OK (he wasn't), I suddenly became invisible to the crowd. I had to get uncomfortably loud before someone by the intercom called the conductor."
BART ended up holding the train at the station.
John says:
"The BART people were very kind. He was barely conscious and incoherent. He managed to get up with help. But couldn't walk off the train by himself. The BART folks said they were taking him to get medical attention."
http://m.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Somerville-Could-you-ignore-this-BART-rider-in-6699594.php
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)This may explain people's reluctance to speak up. BART has enough delays as it is without creating more.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,683 posts)on the way to work.
These people having acute health conditions are such a buzz-kill.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)except that coffee snobs in the Bay Area eschew Starbucks in favor of local chains like Peet's and Philz. 
zigby
(125 posts)More like Ritual and Blue Bottle. But in all seriousness, I think that anyone in a big city is used to seeing drunks on transit. Not excusing this, but just saying everyone just thinks "oh hey another drunk bum". And homeless people in general are invisible.
Omaha Steve
(109,240 posts)For that one person...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)On the floor of the station, certainly. Especially in cold weather.
I'm glad this guy got some attention, but I am willing to give the commuters the benefit of the doubt. If I checked on every prone person I passed each morning, not only would I never make it to work, I'd likely get my ass kicked at least once a day too. It's not easy to distinguish between people simply sleeping, people passed out from drugs and/or alcohol, and people who need medical attention. 99.9% of them will fall into the first two categories, which is why this story gets attention at all.
It sucks, but it's such a common sight 
Unless he was bleeding out or suffering an obvious trauma, stopping for every passed out person in SF would be a full time gig.
lindysalsagal
(22,917 posts)In cold or wet weather. Plus, I'm not going to get involved with drunks and addicts. Unfortunately, it's a fact of life in major cities. The conductors come through continuously,and they know many of the indiginent.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)The implication being, of course, that at some point in the past -- presumably the recent past, as the speaker would need knowledge of it in order to draw such a comparison -- something like this wouldn't have happened.
Tell that to Kitty Genovese:
Catherine Susan "Kitty" Genovese (July 7, 1935[1] – March 13, 1964) was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death outside her apartment building in Kew Gardens, a neighborhood in the borough of Queens in New York City, on March 13, 1964.
Reports of the attack in the New York Times conveyed a scene of indifference from neighbors who failed to come to Genovese's aid; thirty-seven or thirty-eight witnesses supposedly saw or heard the attack and did not call the police. The incident prompted inquiries into what became known as the bystander effect or "Genovese syndrome". Some researchers have questioned this version of events, offering alternative explanations as to why neighbors failed to intervene, and suggesting that the actual number of witnesses was far fewer than reported.
REP
(21,691 posts)Neighbors did call the police, but there was no 911 system in 1964; calls went to the local precincts which may or may not have answered or responded to.
The Kitty Genovese murder and the social psychology of helping: the parable of the 38 witnesses.
Manning R1, Levine M, Collins A.
Author information
Abstract
This article argues that an iconic event in the history of helping research -- the story of the 38 witnesses who remained inactive during the murder of Kitty Genovese -- is not supported by the available evidence. Using archive material, the authors show that there is no evidence for the presence of 38 witnesses, or that witnesses observed the murder, or that witnesses remained inactive. Drawing a distinction between the robust bystander research tradition and the story of the 38 witnesses, the authors explore the consequences of the story for the discipline of psychology. They argue that the story itself plays a key role in psychology textbooks. They also suggest that the story marks a new way of conceptualizing the dangers of immersion in social groups. Finally, they suggest that the story itself has become a modern parable, the telling of which has served to limit the scope of inquiry into emergency helping.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)They're not in short supply.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)If the person on the floor is not visibly injured, or in any kind of visible distress (like a seizure), then I'd probably assume he was homeless and resting. I pass people in subway vestibules every day, lying down, typically covered, who appear to be sleeping. By the way, if someone asks for money, I give it if I have it.
Since I wasn't in that car with him on the BART system, I can only rely on his version of events, but even so, it's not clear to me in light of the everyday presence of homeless people what it was about this homeless person that prompted him to offer assistance? And does he do this every time, or just some times?
I've been to San Francisco only once, and even back then in the 90's, there were many homeless people about town. It would be a full-time job to assist such people (and there SHOULD be people whose full-time jobs are to assist the homeless).
Hope this doesn't sound callous.
winstars
(4,279 posts)NYC subway, F train 23rd St. a few years ago. A guy throws himself on the tracks, a real big mess. As we now have to get off the train, people are bitching about being late for work because, like I said, it was a real big mess and that track was gonna be closed for a while. People were livid, why didn't he throw himself in front of a moving train during the off peak time!!! Or in Brooklyn!!!
Hassin Bin Sober
(27,461 posts)He was in the first seat in the first car so he saw, and heard, and felt everything. He was fucked up for two days.
GreatGazoo
(4,628 posts)If you notify the conductor they will hold the train for 20 minutes or more.
If the man was in need of immediate help, how does this guy miss the irony of his own passively taking pictures and "waiting to see if anyone (else) was going to help the man" ?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)GreatGazoo
(4,628 posts)and it CAN but not in the moment that help is needed.
I saw a guy go down with heart attack in a office building lobby. People stepped over him to get in the elevator. It was me and a young woman who knelt to help. "Do you know CPR?" we asked each other, loosened his belt and started. I pointed at someone and yelled "You, blue shirt, Call 911 now!" (that is what they train you to do because people WILL act blind, deaf etc otherwise). EMS came. Hit him with the defib paddles him 15 times, he died but I sleep better knowing that we tried.
People have different reactions. As a lifelong cynic, I tend not to think "is this really happening?" or "maybe someone else will help." Lived in NYC. When the first plane hit the towers on 9/11 I went to the grocery immediately -- I wasn't thinking "this is surreal" or "This is like a movie" but rather "Looks like they came back to finish off what they started in 1993 I better get some food in the house in case they lock down Manhattan..."
I was on a plane that caught fire, did the exit thing and the slide. I was in L.A. for Rodney King riots and when the machine gun fire started I didn't go to the window thinking "I wonder if that is a machine gun." I got on the flat on the floor, stayed there and started negotiating with God (still owe a few good deeds on that one). Unlike the blogger I wouldn't shame people for their reactions or non-reactions; I think your own life experience shapes your reaction.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... and what the situation is.
I likely would have left the guy as he had no obvious trauma and was one of uncounted people passed out in the San Francisco streets and transit system.
See the same guy on the street in my small home town? I'm hustling right over...
Same guy in SF but with an obvious wound? Throwing on the gloves and start running through the steps...
I wouldn't expect my wife, with no trauma training, to do the same.
Situation and personality dependent...
GreatGazoo
(4,628 posts)liquor. If no scent of alcohol, look for sweating or some other sign that it may be a diabetic episode.
If you don't have the training, you can shout out "Does anyone know CPR?" , "Does anyone here have medical training?" etc.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)As stated above, that would be a full time job in San Fran. The streets are littered with people in various states of consciousness...
At a certain point you have to choose...
Prism
(5,815 posts)That's the real crime, here. And you're an awful person for enabling it!
Prism
(5,815 posts)I mean, look, it's a good story. Callous people ignore plight. But the fact of the matter is, most people on that train probably didn't figure anything was wrong. Passed out homeless guy? Or as I call it, drumming in to 19th St.
A lot of people would've thought nothing of it because it's a routine part of their commute. The Bay Area is action packed with homeless, it's part of our daily experience. Sometimes they're not so great.
What this article is really bitching about is that no one was trained enough to realize the person was in distress.
Well, shit, sorry we're not all medically trained. Clearly we're all awful people.