Identity Politics. I am not interested in them.

[Aerows]

I am one hundred different things, and none of them relate to a box you can confine me in.

That probably describes plenty of folks here on DU.

[snagglepuss]

1. .

[Shandris]

2. Yuppers, right here. I'll stand that line with anyone.

And I'm sure another stack will put me on ignore, but I don't care. That stuff is vile.

[haikugal]

3. Why yes, yes it does!

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. I agree. But there's a paradox here.

Some of us have to assert ourselves as members of a measurable demographic.

Otherwise.... the demographic gets overlooked.

At this point, I'm "not interested in them" either.

There are so many B I G things that are screwing over ALL of us. ( Or "99%" of us.)

But..... maybe it ain't that simple.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. I would argue, it's not a paradox ...

It's a privilege.

[loyalsister]

14. Bingo

Some of us are not well represented and won't have our questions answered or our experiences addressed if we don't stake a claim based on the identity that dominates how we are perceived and interact with government and society more broadly.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Sadly, some ...

In using that term, fail to grasp that they can only make that argument BECAUSE in this society, white and/or male is normative, and NOT an "identity"

[loyalsister]

29. I am an advocacte for embracing identity politics

and am a part of a local organization that is working to do just that collectively. Anything else feels like an endorsement of white male supremacy to me.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. +1 ...

And, your efforts will be resisted because (recent studies suggest) white males view this as a zero sum game.

[loyalsister]

64. I'm having better luck than you might expect

because it is a group for and led by a range of marginalized people. White males are the minority.

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. In my experience ...

There is a more Black/white ally-like relationship, in instances where white (males) are in the minority. They (the white male) either serves as an ally (i.e., serves a supportive role); or, they part ways (typically, in an indignant huff).

[loyalsister]

112. Makes sense

In this case, we have a couple who are positioned to be allies. One white guy is really condescending and people mostly ignore him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

114. Mark my words ...

The latter guy will soon March off in a huff!

[Bubzer]

65. Thats an interesting perspective I hadn't considered.

Whenever I've thought of Identity politics, I've always thought in terms of how the GOP tries to control identity and force people to follow their rules. They try to demonize what they don't like and try to dictate what is good or acceptable... playing games with the social welfare of the people. I'm not sure if I could shift gears and think of it as a positive... I think I prefer to consider social justice movements as exactly that; a Movement (note the capital). Politics is more the realm of dirty-pool attempts to get what one wants... I'd like to think Movements are above that baseness. Maybe that's just me.

Interesting in either case.

[loyalsister]

71. The major social justice movements we have seen have been based on identity politics

Gay rights, the Civil Rights movement, the women's movement, the disability rights movement, #blacklivematter have all been led by people who identify as members of those groups.

If it requires policy changes, it demands involvement in politics. Groups I have been involved with that have organized around identity politics demand changes and lobby government officials because that is the process.
In the unpaid advocacy realm, we have our votes and voices (rather than massive campaign contributions) and the politicians have to earn them.

[Bubzer]

72. Maybe it's the word "politics" I can't get passed. Maybe if it was Social Identity Justice perhaps

Or perhaps stick with Social Justice? I don't know. Maybe I'll just have to make an adjustment. If so, it'll take time. Hard to view something as a negative and then switch to viewing it as a positive. I'll probably have to come up with another label for what the GOP has been doing... maybe identity manipulation, or something similar.

Certainly food for thought.

[loyalsister]

73. It's funny, because to me the GOP tries to erase identity

I see them more as demanding conformity than moulding identity.

[Aerows]

88. That is an excellent comment.

I have to think about it, but you smacked it out of the park as far as questions go !

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. Before I respond, let me ask ...

1) Are you a PoC?
2) Are you Male?
3) Are you a member of the LGBT community? (and if so, are you "out"?)
4) Are your a person with (ETA) a discernable physical or mental disability?

[tishaLA]

9. I'm glad you type faster--and more directly--than I do nt

[LittleBlue]

37. If you click on her profile

You can see the OP is a woman.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. Yes ...

But not the rest.

Anecdotally, I have found, the farther one gets away from the straight, white (Christian) male, the more affected one is.

[Monk06]

75. I think the point the OP is making is that he/she refuses to check your boxes

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. Some don't have the choice to "check the boxes" ...

And, my point has been, and continues to be, the father one is from the straight, white (Christian) male "normality", the less choice one possesses.

[CreekDog]

82. How nice for her. Lots of people would like to skip checking boxes

Last edited Wed Dec 16, 2015, 11:09 PM - Edit history (1)

But depending on how they look, they find others have checked those boxes for them already.

[el_bryanto]

7. Alls I know is that i want a president i can drink a beer with

Although I don't drink. And it's hard to imagine any set of circumstances in which the ability to have a beer with me would be of any benefit to the President.

Bryant

[Aerows]

89. LOL

[tishaLA]

8. Everyone is a multiplicity, but not liking "identity politics" is in essence

giving the finger to things like feminism, critical race theory, LGBT rights, etc. If you happen to be white, straight, and male, eschewing identity politics is fine for you: you are what Michael Warner has called an "abstract citizen." But most of us aren't abstractions, which is why even, say, neo-Marxists have learned they have to account for the differences resulting from embodiment vis-a-vis race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, etc.

It goes without saying that "identity politics" has been important historically in the formation of modern liberalism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

13. Sadly, I have never seen the term ...

"Identity politics" outside of the dismissive context that you point to.

Have you seen it in any other context?

[tishaLA]

18. I usually see it from the RW students on campus who

are convinced it's designed to undermine them. These are the same students who pine for a return to the classic Western canon--even though they can't actually tell you what that canon is--and bitch that multiculturalism in higher education is a symptom of academic laziness. (When I was in grad school, I actually saw fliers on campus that said, "If You Can't Teach, Teach Multiculturalism." The assholes who posted it probably didn't even know which parts of their education were the result of a struggle for inclusion or how valuable those inclusions were to their education.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. Exactly ... Which is way ...

Seeing it in this space, promoted by self-identied "progressives", is so very troubling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. What galls me is that some of those warriors

dare question the identity of those they do not like,. I doubt I will ever forget that one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. It has nothing to do with "like" or not ...

And, everything to do with how one presents.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. And you are in the list of people I intend to have

Zero to do with. Congrats. You built that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. And, yet you respond to me ...

Go figure!

[MeNMyVolt]

74. What the hell kind of reply is this?

To 1SBM no less. One of DU's finest.

[pecwae]

95. Her minority status

has been dissed and marginalized. She has a right to respond and feel as she does.

[romanic]

24. Yep.

Had this happen many times because I say what I feel instead of "toeing the line", very nasty names thrown my way on here. As a man of color, I shouldn't have to blindly agree with BLM stuff or feel like shit for supporting Sanders. Identity politics and the people who follow it to the letter can eff off.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. I suspect you catch more crap online message board than IRL ...

And that is because IRL, people can see that you are a PoC; rather than, someone playing one on DU.

That shouldn't be, at all, surprising ... shortly after May 2015, DU became the absolute Mecca for PoC, who are out of the mainstream of Black/Latino political thought among longterm DUers, who had not felt a need to self-identify as a PoC, nor felt a need to participate in discussions related to race.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Well at least you did not have

Some folks question your self identity because gasp...you lack melanin content. Look on the bright side.

As to the rest...a lot of the reading I have been doing tells me the form identity politics has taken in some quarters is actually a honey trap to keep people from really exploring issues.

Let's just say the policies around tough on crime and mass incarceration have two daddies. One was Nixon, the other was Bill Clinton.

[darkangel218]

39. They question everything. Identity, spelling,

What kind of music we like, why is our username the one we chose, why are we up late, why are we up early..
It's a never ending list of "questions". So that hopefully we get annoyed, snap, and get a hide!

Its really pathetic when you think about it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Yup

[OilemFirchen]

69. Who are "they"?

How can I identify them?

[Bluenorthwest]

84. 'They' vs 'We' is classic identity politics. You practice it even as you criticize it

Your entire trope says 'there is us and them and they are pathetic'. That is the most negative sort of identity politics possible.

[Aerows]

90. You challenge me

and I deeply appreciate it.

[earthside]

11. In the long run Identity Politics and Multiculturalism are not good for the country.

This is a longish article, but well worth the read.

Germany's Angela Merkel finally addressed this issue in the context of Europe.

And ... there are lessons here for us in the U.S.
I see the same kinds of problems and difficulties arising here because of institutionalized multiculturalism and 'Identity Politics'.

Diversity and tolerance, appreciation for history and different cultures is very important -- separatism is destructive.
In other words, a new liberal reconsideration for the 'melting pot' concept may be in order.

At the very least, perhaps we should start talking about this.

The Failure of Multiculturalism
Community Versus Society in Europe
By Kenan Malik

Foreign Affairs - March/April 2015 Issue

Thirty years ago, many Europeans saw multiculturalism—the embrace of an inclusive, diverse society—as an answer to Europe’s social problems. Today, a growing number consider it to be a cause of them. That perception has led some mainstream politicians, including British Prime Minister David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, to publicly denounce multiculturalism and speak out against its dangers. ...

Multiculturalism and assimilationism are different policy responses to the same problem: the fracturing of society. And yet both have had the effect of making things worse. It’s time, then, to move beyond the increasingly sterile debate between the two approaches. And that requires making three kinds 
of distinctions.

First, Europe should separate diversity as a lived experience from multiculturalism as a political process. The experience of living in a society made diverse by mass immigration should be welcomed. Attempts to institutionalize such diversity through the formal recognition of cultural differences should be resisted.

Second, Europe should distinguish colorblindness from blindness to racism. The assimilationist resolve to treat everyone equally as citizens, rather than as bearers of specific racial or cultural histories, is valuable. But that does not mean that the state should ignore discrimination against particular groups. Citizenship has no meaning if different classes of citizens are treated differently, whether because of multicultural policies or because of racism.

Finally, Europe should differentiate between peoples and values. Multiculturalists argue that societal diversity erodes the possibility of common values. Similarly, assimilationists suggest that such values are possible only within a more culturally—and, for some, ethnically—homogeneous society. Both regard minority communities as homogeneous wholes, attached to a particular set of cultural traits, faiths, beliefs, and values, rather than as constituent parts of a modern democracy.

[1StrongBlackMan]

16. I will have to look into the author's background; but, I will bet ...

He is a member of the dominate sub-population.

[Shandris]

21. Yes, Indian-born Englishmen are the EPITOME of dominate.

Of course, the proposition that it would matter even if he were is silly on the surface, but still.

In the spirit of giving, Merry Christmas. http://www.kenanmalik.com/

It seems he's somewhat respected.

[tishaLA]

23. I looked. He's actually pretty interesting, but I would also say

that his "distinguish between colorblindness and blindness to racism" is one of those things used to demonize affirmative action, for example--it allows you to hate racism but still say we have to ignore race as a category.

I'd also note that he's talking about Europe, which has a significantly different history of multiculturalism--and a significantly different response to it--than the US does. In fact, even within Europe, the history and responses are heterogeneous, but he insists on talking about them as if they were congruent

[loyalsister]

19. "tolerance"

is another way of saying. "It's okay that marginalized people exist- I guess. But I don't want to be bothered with who you are or how your life is affected by having a marginalized identity."

[muriel_volestrangler]

116. Malik seems to define multiculturalism in 2 incompatible ways

"multiculturalism—the embrace of an inclusive, diverse society"
"Multiculturalists argue that societal diversity erodes the possibility of common values"

So, is the diversity of multiculturalism inclusive or divisive? He's argued for both in the same article.

[LittleBlue]

12. It's always amusing to see replies like "but so-and-so supports that too, so how can you? "

As if having opinions outside official administration policy is unthinkable.

Some of us have never pretended to be pure partisans and never will be, yet we get slapped with a loyalty oath. I and many other DUers are merely voters, loyal only to our own beliefs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. How is that, at all, related to the OP? eom.

[LittleBlue]

32. I don't think labels should limit how we think

Identity politics are political arguments that focus upon the interest and perspectives of groups with which people identify. Identity politics includes the ways in which people's politics may be shaped by aspects of their identity through loosely correlated social organizations. Examples include social organizations based on race, class, religion, gender, gender identity, ethnicity, ideology, nation, sexual orientation, culture, information preference, history, musical or literary preference, medical conditions, professions or hobbies. Not all members of any given group are necessarily involved in identity politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics

So saying "but you're a progressive, you must believe x" isn't always accurate. By our nature, we take in new information and adjust our opinions accordingly. We don't exist in a neat little box

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Oh ... okay. You have a broader definition of the term ...

Than what is commonly used.

[Shandris]

107. Wait, what?

Really? What's the 'normal' term? The above description is how I've always heard it also. Might explain a few things, really.

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. If I understand your question ...

Just let me say, I have never seen the term, "Identity Politics", except in the context of minimizing the concerns of a marginalized group.

Have you seen it in any other context?

[Shandris]

109. Ahh, I see. And here I thought you said he had a different definition for the term.

Ah well.

Of course I've seen it in different contexts. Any honest person has.

[1StrongBlackMan]

110. Post a link to an instance. This honest person would appreciate it. eom.

[Shandris]

111. No thanks.

Even on topics I like I don't keep 'links' around to put up at the demands of someone who isn't me.

(IOW, that means most conversations aren't online and, as such, don't have 'links'.)

But I doubt you'd believe it anyway. You do seem to be a very...strident individual. That's okay, we need plenty of those. Now if only they'd stop working for those who hate them and want to see them destroyed.

One can always hope. Have a nice Holiday, Strong (and I mean that sincerely).

[1StrongBlackMan]

113. I didn't think so. I can post link after link ...

Supporting my claim ... and I don't even have to go to rw source (where the term is most commonly used), I can cite to two from current and former candidates for the Democratic nomination, both, using it in minimizing the concerns of marginalized groups.

On the other hand, you call me strident and beg off because I wouldn't believe you because you don't have links.

Yeah, right.

[Shandris]

115. Well then, ain't we both content.

I'm sorry your life exists only on the internet. I deal with the real world.

Instead of wishing you another Christmas though, I'll simply wish you a nice life. I PROMISE I'll never see you again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. Well our friend has never reaad a good journal of poli sci

where the term appears often in academic terms.

Or for that matter a few books I have been reading in the recent past that were NOT written by any in the RW... or talked to people who use the term regularly and are PoC themselves.

I know...

And strident is just the beginning. By the way, I enjoyed the exchange and happy holidays to you as well. You did well.

Some of those works are critical of the modern form they are taking by the way, but I am sure since you and I do live in the real world, you know precisely what I am talking about as well.

[1StrongBlackMan]

118. As DUers are quick to say ...

You know nothing about me. But I would wager, I am more involved IRL community serve activities than most posters here.

So typical of a certain segment of DU ... make an unsupported claim and when someone calls bullshit ... you insult then run away.

[uppityperson]

25. I am interested when someone treats someone else based on one thing like gender, skin color,

heritage, age, etc.

I am very interested in speaking about against prejudice and bigotry and find it odd that someone would not be.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Some of the people who scream the loudest

Treat fellow minorities they don't like as the enemy as well. This is one thing from this season I will not forget (or for that matter forgive).

These are the same people in my view who are very much activist Warriors.

As to your post, until those (and in my experience is a toxic minority within the minority) those intra attacks end , we will not be able to deal with the major issues.

For the moment I have actual real living human beings suggesting that integration is a failed experiment.

[uppityperson]

33. I have had it out with some of those sorts, it reminds me of the crab in a bucket thing

When one starts getting out, the others grab them and pull them back in. Actually, that's not quite right. More along the line of "I've been treated poorly for so long, I can always look down upon (pick a category)".

I see a lot of it as distraction to keep we masses infighting and not noticing all the other crap going on. Or maybe it is meant to keep up from feeling hopeless and helpless as we can always pick on someone else? That brings me back to my first paragraph. huh

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Yup

Pretty much

[Aerows]

91. Nadin, for what it is worth

I have always found you to be a fantastic human being.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Thanks back at atcha

But the way that identity politics has evolved (and it does have a place, there we will have to agree to disagree) allows for people to go me, me, and my cause is far more important. It also shuts down conversations that should happen, and mind you used to happen. If you are any close to the modern iteration of an identity warrior that short circuits discussions of what those you think are on your side have done to you. See Bill Clinton and mass incarceration. He is as guilty of that royal mess, for different ideological reasons mind you, as Nixon.

Yes in this case there is equivalency and the people who should know better give one party a pass on ideological ground. Part of it is the respectably politics that goes with it.

And I said way too much, and time to go read a report from one of our state prisons. Found it after coming across the AP story. I expect it to be quite horrific reading.

[Aerows]

104. You are a thoughtful poster.

And while I disagree with you on this subject, I can appreciate your point of view.

You are a good egg, Nadin .

[H2O Man]

28. Recommended.

This is an interesting OP/thread. There appear to be some undercurrents that I am not familiar with, in a number of the posts. And that makes it more interesting for me.

I belong to a very small, informally organized group of people known as "Water Men." There have been members in diverse times and places, throughout human history. But there isn't really a group identity, in the formal sense. Certainly not in a political context.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. From moving in several different groups

With different identities there are also undercurrents pertaining to the self, group and the other. We have observed groups with strong sense of self attack other groups with a strong sense of self as not really the real deal

But more importantly. We are witnessing young people from a few groups ask if desegregation has worked, or should be confined to the dustbin? Given my "good friends" in white supremacy groups would like nothing less we are seeing a hell of a dynamic emerge.

Then there is mass incarceration...and how it came about. Let the not guilty party step forwards and throw the first stone...we will be here until hell freezes over incidentally.

Those are some of the tensions we are starting to see, not on a message board, but the actual...streets.

[Bluenorthwest]

86. I thought your name was taken from tribal leader Chief Paul Waterman?

Of the Onondaga people a formally organized and politically recognized identity group? Waterman advocated strongly for issues around his own identified community, very specifically.

[seaglass]

31. Are you just doing this to create drama? Posting here and then complaining about responses on DI?

JFC you fit right in over there.

[darkangel218]

41. The OP posted because she wanted to.

It's her OP. Trash it if you don't like it. Sheesh..

[seaglass]

42. Who are you? n/t

[darkangel218]

44. Who are you? n/t

[melman]

63. Are you pulling rank

on a message board? Holy moly is that lame.

[Aerows]

97. Um it looks like you did it first

and unfortunately, from someone that is not afraid to stand up for herself.

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. The important part is you found a way to feel superior to everyone else.

Good job.

[darkangel218]

47. Nope, she just stood up for herself.

I see many.. err..a few here didn't like that. Too bad, so sad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. You might want to edit that to

A few. Truth be told it is a few...

[darkangel218]

52. Good point.

[Aerows]

87. Indeed, I did. Too few know how to do that anymore

without being evil about it.

[Lizzie Poppet]

93. That would surprise me a great deal.

Not really Aerows' style, from everything I've seen...

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. It encourages people to assert as political truth, that which isn't.

A good example is abortion rights. The assault on abortion rights, so the theory goes, is about a misogynist war on women perpetrated by heterosexual white men, and that the right could be secured if we only eliminate their influence in politics.

But when you ask people about their attitudes on abortion, you find that peoples attitudes are remarkably similar, regardless of their sex.

The net result is to ostracize men to no political benefit.

We see this again and again, including polls which show that Trump is doing about as well with Republican minorities as he is with white republicans.

Identity politics is lazy politics. It's the belief that you can avoid bold policy by speaking spanish, getting the endorsement of a musician or by being female.

[tishaLA]

53. If that theory actually exists, it's a fringe theory

the goal of identity politics in case of reproductive freedom comes from the idea that the identity "woman" has a sovereignty over her body (politics) and can determine whether to use birth control, to terminate her pregnancy, or to bring it to term. I have literally never heard a mainstream (or even academic) argument that sought to "eliminate" the "influence" of heterosexual white men. Instead, it asked heterosexual white men (and others) to embrace a political commitment to ensuring a woman's freedom to choose how she deals with her private medical decisions.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. I could buy that argument if last years call to arms wasn't "the war on women" n/t

[tishaLA]

56. well, you argued that the debate around abortion was about "eliminating" straight white male voices

the war on women wasn't about that; in fact, many of those who spoke out about the war on women were themselves straight white men--and I didn't hear a single advocate for reproductive freedom make a peep.

[lumberjack_jeff]

62. "war on women" rhetoric is a call to defend them against "not women", right?

It's a (proven) example of identity politics done wrong.

The men who used the slogan as a rallying cry lost their elections too.

[tishaLA]

66. no, because in the rhetoric of the "war on women," some women participate in the wrong side

of said war (i.e., Marsha Blackburn comes immediately to mind). And whether the men who used it lost or won their elections and whether the rhetoric was correct at a given socio-political moment says nothing about the false claim that identity politics attempts to "eliminate" the voices of straight white men from the public square. That's pure confabulation.

[bettyellen]

77. LOL, nope. It is against any and all who want to limit women's reproductive freedom.

[zeemike]

67. Well you are on to something there.

But I don't see it as lazy politics but divide and conquer.
A pro active strategy to divert attention from the real issues that we face.

[joshcryer]

51. If you didn't care you wouldn't be posting this thread.

So you care a little and likely identify as one who is anti identity politics.

Have a rec anyway.

[tularetom]

55. I'm a registered Democrat because thats how I registered back in 1962

Beyond that I would dispute any attempt to categorize me.

[Kalidurga]

57. Well there goes targeted marketing

I go to places where they sell you things based on what you are looking at or put in your cart. They are almost always wrong. The most accurate target marketers seem to be Netflix they actually get me right over half the time.

[11 Bravo]

58. Cheer up. Discussionist appears to be moments away ...

from starting a GoFundMe account to help you recover from the horrendous harassment you described for them regarding your experience here at mean old DU.

[Paladin]

59. Nicely stated, 11 Bravo. (nt)

[Starry Messenger]

68. *Snort*

[MisterP]

60. "identitarianism" is a bit controversial as an analysis, but it becomes very interesting online

since, well, unless you're willing to open your FB account one's ethnicity, background, sex and gender are always potentially nebulous--that anyone can "pass" for anything; so that makes things unsettled so people have to stake their claims more aggressively

[pennylane100]

61. I do not see the harm in what you describe as "Identity politics"

It seems that would simply entail voting for the candidates that supports your political views. If I am totally misunderstanding what you mean, then I apologize. It is the pollsters and talking heads at love to put people into little voting blocks, women (half of the population) gun owners (covers people from many different groups) religious views (a very wide group, according to the size of each religious population. Ethnic groups (covers 100% of the voters.) Choice, (Not sure about the number of the group, but I think it is quite a lot.

While we all fall into several of these groups, we (or at least, I do) choose the candidate that meets my views, as I have prioritized them.

[Chitown Kev]

70. On a personal level, this works

Try feeling that way when politicians whip up support based on others that are "welfare queens" or politicians that want to "protect the institution of marriage"...

[guillaumeb]

76. What do you check on the census form regarding race?

And how do people see you when you are in public?

Identity is also how you appear to others.

[Spider Jerusalem]

79. You should be

The laden phrase “identity politics” has come to signify a wide range of political activity and theorizing founded in the shared experiences of injustice of members of certain social groups. Rather than organizing solely around belief systems, programmatic manifestos, or party affiliation, identity political formations typically aim to secure the political freedom of a specific constituency marginalized within its larger context.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-politics/

Women's rights, gay rights, etc? Those are the result of "identity politics".

[bettyellen]

81. I think that we (and POC) would not have the vote today, or be able to won land if not for....

what some refer to dismissively as "identity politics". Sorry, but I think we still have some ways to go before we have equality.
Would that men were out there fighting hard for our reproductive rights as hard as women are- but they are not. Same with problems in racial equality, unfortunately many people have their own priorities, which matter more to them based on their "identity" truth be told.

[Bluenorthwest]

85. You don't really seem to understand the term at all. You do in fact practice identity politics

yourself. This OP even bumps up beside it as it defines you as a multifaceted mystery force while others, they are confined to a box due to toxic thinking. Your own denial of identity politics is all about your identity as contrasted with the people you paint as being in the wrong. What would you call that?

Do you ever use the terms 'the 99%' or 'the 1%'? Identity politics. 'Workers of the world unite' is identity politics. Class is identity. Unionism is identity politics 'we are workers, they are management' and the entire thing functions because Union members identify as such. When my Union honors the picket line of another, that's identity politics.
I assume you cross all picket lines.


You had a thread this week that was all about how posters on DI are so much better in every way than posters on DU, whom you chide for not being like DI. That is all identity politics. That's you saying 'my kind can argue happily with conservatives while the bad people don't like to do that'. Of course you have not a clue nor hint what any of us do in the real world, what we have done nor what we will do. But your choice is to craft a person's political chat preferences into an entire identity, a philosophy, a definition of the person. This is what you create while claiming to not be interested in identity as communication form or organizing tool.

'My country right or wrong'. That's identity politics, oft practiced by conservatives who say they don't care for identity politics. That is a form of identity politics I call 'clique politics' and it is the least favorable form. In Clique Politics, one says 'I vote only for my kind' or 'I agree always with my country'.
In Issue Identity politics, which is the useful, community organizing sort that helped give women, LGBT, African Americans, Latinos, Asians and others rights, we say 'there are interests which apply to us collectively which can not be advanced individually'. Issue Identity politics is a breaker of chains and liberator of peoples. Chavez lead Farmworkers, who had to identify as migrant workers to get any decent treatment, they had to organize as a group with an identity. At no time did that mean they were not also complex and nuanced beings just like you but it did mean that unlike you they picked crops for a living and thus had issues to advance that you and I did not have.
Underground Railroad, identity politics. Occupy 'We are the 99%'. Identity politics. Every Union that exists, identity politics.

Without issue based identity activism women would have no vote, African Americans would be bereft of their rightful standing on countless levels, LGBT would be in jail or in 'treatment', workers would have no rights, children would still be among those workers who have no rights. It does not end.

[kwassa]

92. Excellent point. Hit the nail on the head.

Your own denial of identity politics is all about your identity as contrasted with the people you paint as being in the wrong. What would you call that?

I call it identity politics.

[Aerows]

99. I called it as I saw it.

I *really* don't like being confined to a box of beliefs.

You are welcome to whatever box of beliefs you would like.

[kwassa]

101. and who exactly is confining you?

What box are people trying to put you into?

[Aerows]

102. I'll start by stating nobody here.

You couldn't even if you wanted to do so.

[kwassa]

122. and ..... why would I want to?

[Aerows]

123. I have no idea. n/t

[Paladin]

94. +1. (nt)

[Chitown Kev]

106. +10

[JoePhilly]

121. ^^^^^ Thread should end right here ^^^^^

[JEB]

96. Call it whatever you want,

as long as it raises the oppressed and neglected, I'm for it.

[Aerows]

98. So am I.

No Questions here.

[JEB]

100. Often times those who favor the status quo

use the gains of one group to splinter and alienate other oppressed groups. The GOP and others love to turn one group against another. Solidarity is our best bet.

[Aerows]

105. You can't wake up, this is not a dream

[BainsBane]

119. That sentiment is particularly common among homogeneuous groups

But America is no longer homogeneous, not that it ever was--but political power and representation is no longer wielded by a single group. The Democratic Party openly seeks to represent America as it exists today, not the good ole days that many long to return to.

I have to wonder if we are entering a period of party realignment that will break down according to what you dismiss as "identity politics." What that really means is the political concerns and voices of the subaltern. The politics of the dominant culture is also based on identity, but its conceit--its artifice--is that it assumes there is something universal about the white bourgeois experience that can override the voices of the majority.

We've witnessed the Democratic party recently move quite clearly to the left, yet complaints about it selling out the "real people" are louder than ever. Meanwhile, we see attacks on Black Lives Matter, defense of votes for the Minutemen and the Wall, defenses of pro-gun policy, and any number of conservative positions. It has been clear to me for some time that frustration has far less to do with ideological direction than the decline of uncontested privilege of the dominant culture.

[ecstatic]

120. Bernie Sanders said something similar a couple years ago on MSNBC

and that dismissive tone is what turned me off from him, completely. I assume many of his supporters feel the same way?