It appears there is not a lot of difference between ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

The language of trump and Bernie ... both are talking about "this is a Movement! !!"

That is all.

ETA: No ... let me change that to: both trump and Bernie are running the same "this is a Movement" campaign.

That is all.

[cwydro]

1. I'm still undecided, but I think there's plenty of difference between the language used.

I've not heard ANY Democratic candidate call for Muslims to be targeted for discrimination.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. I edited my initial statement. eom

[hobbit709]

2. WTF?

Trump's is a bowel movement. Bernie's is a people movement.

[elias49]

8. Ha! Well said!

[treestar]

63. The people in Trump's movement exist

and likely they think it is a people's movement.

[trillion]

112. yeah, shall we fight for the rights of white supremacists?

That's the only direction that "people's" movement is moving. They're take back their country is an Ayran nations dream.

[joshcryer]

3. Meh.

I respect you 1SBM but this is just the regular petty shit around here. Oh, and you're in GD so I guess it'll get locked anyway... just saying.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. I edited my initial statement. eom

[joshcryer]

7. I don't see a substantive difference.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. I was speaking to the two campaigns usage of ...

Movement language to draw supporters in to something "larger" than a political campaign.

[joshcryer]

21. We've had that before.

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. True. eom.

[joshcryer]

23. I don't mind talk about comfortable shoes.

Just to clarify if you didn't know what I was getting at...

[trillion]

113. Wow. Maybe you out to watch or read 1 single speach from Sanders and then 1 from trump. The rest of

of saw a difference immediately.

[joshcryer]

126. Please read post #3, #5, and #7 in that order.

I chastised the OP for making a crummy post, he edited the post, and I said I don't see a difference in his edit. I am not talking about the parties. I'm talking about the OP's post. This is really crazy.

[trillion]

114. Oh, wait. I get it. You're the GREEN party doing it's failed rhetoric they pull every election year

claming both candidates are the exact same. Got it. Knew you couldn't be that completely ignorant about the differences between sanders and trump. You're spouting green propaganda.

[joshcryer]

117. Read post #3.

Seems you're ascribing a position to me I don't hold.

But feel free to Google my some 53k posts here, I have nothing to hide.

[cwydro]

14. Trump doesn't belong in the same sentence with any of our candidates.

I don't see the point in comparing Trump and Sanders.

There is no comparison imo.

[CTyankee]

25. I was on the jury on this post and voted to leave it. Why?

Because the OP changed the wording to clearly say that both campaigns can be, in the broadest of terms. called a "movement." I was in the antiwar movement in the 70s and the pro-abortion rights in the same era. I am familiar with the term "movement."

Only in the broadest of meaning would I say this. I don't believe that Trump has the kind of people that is attracted by Bernie. Of course not. But I do think that misguided thinking people can be loosely identified with a "movement." It means they identify with the sentiments and the goals of its "leader" (in this case Trump).

I am supporting Bernie. If Bernie doesn't make it I will support Hillary. There is NO WAY I would let an anti-choice candidate become president of the United States without a good, hard fight...

[cwydro]

26. Well, it certainly wasn't me that alerted on it.

I alert only on vile personal attacks against other DUers, and I've not seen any in this thread.

I simply disagree with the OP's comparison because I think there's no point to it.

I understand what you're saying however.

I'm still on the fence. I will happily vote for whomever we choose. I'm proud of all three candidates.

[CTyankee]

27. I think that the point of it was that we have a, however misguided, force against us and

our values as socialist/liberal dems and those misguided folks seem to have a kind of movement -- I don't think they even know what it is. Most of all it is hard core racism and sexism. Been around a long time and every time it is resurgent, it attracts similar thinking people. Maybe we should just call it a "hate mob."

[cwydro]

29. Yes, I do understand what you're saying there.

I also understand the OP was simply stating his outlook on the subject, and that's fine with me.

That's why we're all here - to agree and disagree (hopefully agreeably!)

[CTyankee]

31. yeah, it's why I mostly stay out of GD P. Most all of us get together when all is said

and done and the smoke starts to clear a bit. I don't see why I should pick fights or engage in the worst of them, so I stay out. But I felt this was a bit misunderstood...it was semantics to me so I went to bat for 1SBM...

[trillion]

116. Okay, but this smells like Green Party propaganda that both candidates are exactly the same.

[CTyankee]

118. I don't see it that way. In fact, I see it as a way to modify a candidate's view (in this case HRC)

in the primary by showing the strength of our progressive beliefs in the Party in an effort to get the more main stream candidate to become more progressive.

I absolutely do NOT think both candidates are exactly the same. And there is no way on earth I would harm the Dem Party's chances of victory in the general. NO WAY. I am a Democrat!

[trillion]

121. not you, josh cryer. He's literally parroting the green platform - that both candidates are exactly

the same and he can't tell the difference. That's their mantra. In reality it's impossible not to tell the difference between trump and sanders. From his posts he's pretty consistently saying he'd vote green if he thought they could win and lamenting how he got let down by nader. he's hoping Jill sanders runs with Bernie in some posts. I don't think he's "accidentally" making this thread which is the Green propaganda angle, when it's clear he's very familiar with the green party. This is propaganda.
The op on this post is the real propagana. It's blatant green party.

[CTyankee]

122. OK, sorry, my mistake...no wonder I was totally surprised and dumbfounded...

thank you for clearing up my mistake...I appreciate it...

[joshcryer]

125. You are completely wrong.

I said that the OP's edit was not substantially different from the before edit.

Please reread the comments. I don't know what this is about. Feels like you're thinking of reasons to dislike me or accuse me of something for no reason whatsoever.

[Nitram]

30. Cwydro, I totally agree.

I most often see such comparisons between Trump and Clinton in posts by Bernie supporters.I don't think it is ever appropriate.

[Scuba]

6. Aren't you the same person who rails against any claims that "the two parties are too much alike"?

Yet you draw this wholly unfair comparison. Shame on you.

[hobbit709]

10. That only counts if you're talking about the anointed one. Everyone else is fair game.

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Yes I do because the parties are nothing alike ...

My post is about the similarities of the two campaigns; specifically, their usage of movement language.

[TheBlackAdder]

55. You should change that to "similarity of both campaigns", as that is the only thing. nt

[safeinOhio]

9. You've got it about language.

Example, Bernie is a "socialist" yet they leave out the "Democratic". All of the repubs running are neoliberals on the economy. How come we aren't calling them liberals?
Another example, they call antiunion legislation "right to work laws". We need to start calling voting rights "right to vote laws".

[pampango]

11. Both are economic populists with some similarities (anti-NAFTA/TPP) but

with significant differences. Bernie is pro-labor and in favor of raising the minimum wage. Trump is pro-right-to-work and opposed to raising the minimum wage.

IMHO, Bernie seeks an inclusive prosperity. Trump plays to some Americans' cultural insecurity to cast it as an US vs THEM (Mexicans, Muslims, Chinese, OTHERS) competition.

[joshcryer]

12. This is true. And there's nothing wrong with left wing populism.

Right wing populism is fascism. Quite a gap between the two.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. I agree. n/t

[deutsey]

24. +1

[JunkyardAngel83]

75. Agreed. N/t

[madokie]

13. What ever

tRump is all bluster, Bernie on the other hand is serious as a heart attack and will be our next President. hide and watch

[mmonk]

15. I feeling the urge to leave this cess pool

for another break.

[Enrique]

16. plus they're both racists

from what I understand!!!!

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. One of them definitely is ...

Bernie is not.

[Rex]

28. GD-P rhetoric.

That is all.

[snooper2]

32. Adele - Hello

Key of Awesome #103!


GREATNESS!

[Jester Messiah]

33. That's among the most superficial comparisons you could possibly draw.

It is what one says in the language that is important. Every campaign that is "about" something strives to be a movement.

[tularetom]

34. What's your point?

They may both be conducting "Movement" campaigns, but there is a hell of a lot of difference between the language of the two.

[Overseas]

35. There's a Huuuuuge difference in media coverage. Trump's wild, reckless language drives ratings.

And he knows it, and makes his statements with that goal in mind.

Bernie in polling consistently defeats all the GOP candidates in a one on one contest. So why isn’t he the newsworthy one?

What better for corporate news. You pretend there isn’t a candidate in the race addressing growing economic inequality or the woes of the working class. You put all the spotlight on someone who insults and even incites against Mexican-Americans, African-Americans and Muslim-Americans. It is a tried and true tactic of the American business class to keep the workers and middle class divided by playing up minor ethnic issues.

The end result, however, is fire-bombing of mosques and attacks on minorities and other white hood phenomena familiar from past epochs of American history.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/corporate_media_danger_society_cover_donald_trump_bernie_sanders_20151214

[Marr]

36. This is almost too low to even address.

Seriously, what you tried there is just gross, and your excuses only make it more so.

'They both use movement language'. So did Obama. Would you say the same about him? So would anyone running as a populist of any stripe.

[wendylaroux]

37. wow nice

glad your doing good.

[Octafish]

38. Nice.

“I will tell you that our system is broken. I gave to many people before this -- before two months ago I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what, when I need something from them two years later, three years later, I call them. They are there for me. That's a broken system.”

[MinM]

50. Glenn Greenwald

must be a follower of yours Octafish...

Glenn Greenwald ?@ggreenwald 1h1 hour ago

If one had to choose one photo for a museum to explain modern US politics, this would be a decent choice

If he's not .. he should be.

[Octafish]

151. Heh heh heh.

Here's another one on-topic:

Visit UBS and see with your own eyes:

http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

Or, read and think:

Clinton and Gramm: Crony Capitalism’s Power Couple

Former senator Phil Gramm helped pass laws that let the banks go wild, yet he’s stayed silent on UBS’s crimes.

By Robert Scheer
The Nation, Dec. 21, 2012

EXCERPT...

As The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday: “US, U.K. and Swiss authorities alleged a vast conspiracy led by UBS AG to rig interest rates tied to trillions of dollars in loans and other financial products, indicating the practice was far more pervasive than previously known.” But what did Gramm know about this criminal behavior at a bank he helped govern, and when did he know it?

In a deal brokered with the criminal division of the US Justice Department, UBS was also fined $1.5 billion in the massive Libor interest-rate-fixing scam that evidenced a pattern of deep corruption across a score of top banks. But Gramm, the man most responsible for the repeal in 1999 of sixty years of sensible banking regulation that enabled the financial industry to run wild, has not responded to a single question from the mainstream media concerning UBS’ criminal behavior. I assume he has been queried, given his important prior contribution to the sorry state of banking.

When Gramm was still at the bank, his bio page on the UBS website paid tribute to his prior achievements in government: “As chairman of the Banking Committee, Senator Gramm steered through legislation modernizing the nation’s banking, insurance and securities laws.”

That “modernization” in 2000 made legal the mergers that created the too-big-to-fail banks that had to be bailed out by taxpayers, as well as insuring that the burgeoning markets in toxic derivatives and credit default swaps were summarily freed from all government regulation. Bill Clinton signed off on the new laws, and his successor, George W. Bush, enthusiastically enforced them.

How fitting then to find the two presidents united again on several occasions documented on the UBS website participating in bank-sponsored panels on “Revitalizing America.” Clinton’s foundation has partnered with UBS in mentoring small businesses in poorer communities, the very communities hit hardest by the banking shenanigans of the past decade. Ever the optimist, Clinton promised that “Our partnership with UBS Wealth Management Americas will give these businesses essential new opportunities to expand and to make a positive difference in underserved communities.” With friends like these…

CONTINUED...

http://www.thenation.com/article/clinton-and-gramm-crony-capitalisms-power-couple/

DUers! Do what real journalists do when it comes to news and information: Don't avert your eyes -- plagiarize.

PS: What's in your wallet? If it's like mine, dust and moths.

PPS: You are a real pal, MinM!

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. I am considering self-deleting this OP, as clearly ...

I was able to communicate what I had intended. It was not a slam on Bernie, or his campaign; rather, I think trump seeing the efficacy of Bernie's "movement language" in rallying his supporters, has adopted it.

Sorry to those offended.

[Ichingcarpenter]

40. You are not sorry

you are not thoughtless and
being a lawyer even makes it more apparent
that this is a contrived OP.

[1StrongBlackMan]

42. No. I am sorry for how I phrased my observation ...

But, as with all things, some segments of DU just know more and better, and have no hesitation in tell folks so.

[Ichingcarpenter]

43. Oh and you are now 'just know more and better'

well I guess we are stand in humble acceptance of your ego.

[1StrongBlackMan]

44. No ... I was speaking about YOU and your penchant for ...

Telling other people what they do/don't and should/shouldn't think/do.

[Sherman A1]

156. Indeed it is

however, so is my ignore list which the OP is just about to join.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Or maybe Trump saw the efficacy for Black Lives Matter, and adopted it from there

http://www.truthdig.com/report/page2/this_is_a_movement_not_a_moment_20150723

Or, just maybe, saying "this is a movement" is an extremely common phrase in politics, and you needed an excuse to put Trump and Sanders in the same sentence.

You could still self-delete.

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. Or maybe, it is as I said it was.

[SalviaBlue]

53. I think you should

delete.

[SusanCalvin]

57. Might want to consider an edit to the OP, then.

I don't think I've ever said that before, but to me the OP is way different from:

"I think trump seeing the efficacy of Bernie's "movement language" in rallying his supporters, has adopted it."

(I know there was one edit, but it was not quite to the point of the quote above.)

[Katashi_itto]

85. LOLOlOL You sorry? good one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

86. What are you talking about? n/t

[DonCoquixote]

93. In every political campaign

There is an appeal to something greater, as if the path is some mandate of Heaven. Indeed, if the day comes when we can talk about politics the way we would any practical matter of paying bills and meeting needs, rather than composing an opera or offering a sacrifice, then Democracy might finally be growing up.

[1StrongBlackMan]

99. +1. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

95. Right, you had no intention of "offending" anyone on DU with an OP positing a similarity between

The Trump and Sanders campaigns.


Sure.

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. Yes ... That is what I have said, and I really don't careif you think otherwise. n/t

[panader0]

136. You should have deleted.

The two men are opposite.
You have lost my respect.

[1StrongBlackMan]

139. What part about observing the commonality(ies) of the two CAMPAIGNS ...

saying NOTHING about the men, or their platforms/policies, is so difficult to understand/grasp?

You have lost my respect.

I suspect that I never had it ... except, perhaps, on those narrow topics where we agree; but, I am pretty certain that I will, both, sleep at night, and survive into the next day.

[panader0]

171. This OP is as transparent as your "tribute" to Manny G.

Grow up.

[1StrongBlackMan]

172. Grow up? Me? ...

I'm not the one whining on an anonymous message board about a supposed insult directed at two people you have (likely) never met!

Yep ... I'm the one that needs to grow up!

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

158. Instead of deleting, you might just edit the OP to add this clarification. nt

[H2O Man]

41. silly

[Bluenorthwest]

45. "We are the change we have been waiting for." Here is an Obama quote 'how a movement happens'

"With that courage, we can feed the hungry, and house the homeless, and transform bleak wastelands of poverty into fields of commerce and promise.
America, I know the road will be long, but I know we can get there. Yes, we will stumble, but I know we’ll get back up.
That’s how a movement happens. That’s how history bends. That's how when somebody is faint of heart, somebody else brings them along and says, come on, we’re marching."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/08/28/remarks-president-let-freedom-ring-ceremony-commemorating-50th-anniversa

Both Martin Luther King Jr and Harvey Milk lead movements and said so. To attempt to tarnish the word and the notion strikes me as reckless verbiage. Obama speaks of movements as they way history bends. Do you take issue with him as well? He'd say at rallies 'this is not about me, it is about you, we are the change we have been waiting for'. What do you think that means?

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. I was not tarnishing anything ...

Rather, I was observing that both campaigns were using the movement language.

As I mentioned, I suspect trump saw the efficacy of Bernie's campaign's usage of the language and adopted it .

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Politicians and other organizers very regularly use movement language. Hillary, Sep 2014:

“We need people to feel that they’re part of a movement, that it’s not just part of an election, it’s part of a movement to really empower themselves, their families and take the future over in a way that is going to give us back the country that we care so much about.”
http://time.com/3398922/hillary-clinton-women-2014/

Maybe Bernie borrowed it from Hillary?

[sonofspy777]

51. One is a movement to the BOTTOM

The other is headed to the TOP.

eom

[Baitball Blogger]

52. They are both seeking votes from the same voter group.

Trump is reaching the working class community by appealing to their prejudices, and Bernie is doing it through economic plans that will make a difference in their lives.

[matt819]

54. Too simplistic

Ok, they each call their campaigns a movement. It's the substance of those movements that matter.

The Trump movement is a movement toward fascism, a movement based on hate and fear. Sure, his supporters don't see it that way, but that's precisely what it is.

[Scootaloo]

56. They also both metabolize glucose!

[SusanCalvin]

59. .

[leftstreet]

61. ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Yeah. Okay. eom

[Scootaloo]

65. Well, they do. Just another way they're so totally alike!

[1StrongBlackMan]

68. Just another smart assed kick to my OP ... Thanks. n/t

[Scootaloo]

69. I'm happy to kick threads like this

DU needs more levity and your silliness is helping

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. My silliness ... LOL. eom.

[LanternWaste]

165. How you rationalize your contribution as something other than irrelevance is bemusing.

How you rationalize your contribution to the dialog as something other than a trifling irrelevance is bemusing; analogous to the Pontiac Aztek of sentences.

[Scootaloo]

166. Took you 24 hours to find all those words in a thesaurus, huh?

[Warren DeMontague]

98. How dare people display wit in deflating my deliberarely incendiary, inane premise!

Why i never huff puff harump pump

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. Just put me on ignore and save yourself agreat deal of distress. n/t

[opiate69]

160. You actually believe you cause anyone here, let alone Warren, distress??

[1StrongBlackMan]

162. Clearly, ... I must be. eom

[opiate69]

168. You keep telling yourself that, buttercup.

[1StrongBlackMan]

169. "Buttercup"? I must be a source of distress for you, too ...

I wasn't even talking to you and you enter the thread ... just to call me names!

You are so special.

[Warren DeMontague]

176. No such luck, Batman.

but a valiant attempt, nonetheless!

[Hiraeth]

187. don't be dissing the Batman like that. 1SBM wishes he was the Batman.

[arcane1]

150. 100% accurate n/t

[LanternWaste]

167. That's the disconnect... I don't think you're aware of what the word 'wit' entails.

That's the disconnect... I don't think you're aware of what the word 'wit' actually entails; as the grade school child often believes belching in class is wit.

[Warren DeMontague]

175. at least my posts don't have some kind of annoying built-in echo.

I suspect I make people on DU laugh more often than you do.

At least intentionally.

[Bluenorthwest]

58. “We need people to feel that they’re part of a movement." Hillary Clinton 9-2014

“We need people to feel that they’re part of a movement, that it’s not just part of an election, it’s part of a movement to really empower themselves, their families and take the future over in a way that is going to give us back the country that we care so much about.”

So is if fair to say 'It appears there is not a lot of difference between ...
The language of trump and Hillary ... both are talking about "this is a Movement! !!"?

Or is the Double Standard Rule in play again?

That is all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

66. I wasn't aware that HRC had used the movement language ...

but, it appears that she has not made it a big part of her campaign.

But with that said ...

Or is the Double Standard Rule in play again?

What is it about a segment of DU, trying to assign nefarious intent to every damn post?

[Bluenorthwest]

90. I'm pointing out a possible double standard. Why am I not allowed

to do so? Is it only you that is allowed opinion, memory and the ability to say 'fair is fair'? Why is that not also my right? And what is this 'segment' you seek to associate me with?
You need to answer these questions or delete your smear at me. You have no right.

And you didn't even bother to answer my question. Instead you took a swipe.

[1StrongBlackMan]

92. Come on Blue ...

I already said, I was not aware that HRC has/had used the movement language ... Your double standard comment is unwarranted.

And what is this 'segment' you seek to associate me with?

That segment that is always seeking to find some nefarious intent in every post/action. And I have every right, as you are one of those that seem to find your way into doing so ... quite often.

[Bluenorthwest]

133. I did not ask you if you knew Clinton used that verbiage, I asked you if it would be right to frame

her use of that verbiage as you do Bernie's use of the same verbiage. You did not bother to answer that question and instead made some wisecrack about a 'segment'.

I asked you a question and you say that is an accusation which is of course you evading the question by accusing me of ill intent. Obviously in your world view I am not allowed to so much as ask a question, while you are free to smear me all day. Double Standard.
Hillary can say 'we need a movement' but if Bernie says it, he's like Trump. Double Standard.

To be blunt, this is a discussion board, you stared a discussion, I asked you a question about your assertion and you attacked me for it. Because you can't answer the question.

[1StrongBlackMan]

137. You have an "interesting" way of viewing events, and I suspect the world ...

You cite to a paragraph, wherein, HRC used movement language (that I was unaware of) ... and then, implied that I have engaged in hypocrisy, for not citing to her use of the movement language.

So is if fair to say 'It appears there is not a lot of difference between ...
The language of trump and Hillary ... both are talking about "this is a Movement! !!"?

Or is the Double Standard Rule in play again?

I respond by telling you that I was unaware of HRC's use of the movement language and call you on your thinly veiled accusation.

I wasn't aware that HRC had used the movement language ... but, it appears that she has not made it a big part of her campaign.

But with that said ...

Or is the Double Standard Rule in play again?

What is it about a segment of DU, trying to assign nefarious intent to every damn post?

You persist in the accusation AND play some damned victim ...

I'm pointing out a possible double standard. Why am I not allowed to do so? Is it only you that is allowed opinion, memory and the ability to say 'fair is fair'? Why is that not also my right? And what is this 'segment' you seek to associate me with?
You need to answer these questions or delete your smear at me. You have no right.

And you didn't even bother to answer my question. Instead you took a swipe.

I respond by reiterating that I was unaware of HRC's use of the movement language, and go on to point out exactly what you have a tendency to do, i.e., "seeking to find some nefarious intent in every post/action" AND attempt to make every damned thing about you.

I already said, I was not aware that HRC has/had used the movement language ... Your double standard comment is unwarranted.

And what is this 'segment' you seek to associate me with?

That segment that is always seeking to find some nefarious intent in every post/action. And I have every right, as you are one of those that seem to find your way into doing so ... quite often.

And you persist in doing what you do ... Like I said, you have an "interesting" approach to the world.

[hopemountain]

183. ++^^++

[sammythecat]

60. What is the importance of this observation?

I'm thinking, "Well, OK ... and?". What are we supposed to do with this information? They both "are running the same "this is a Movement" campaign." Seriously, so what? What am I missing? What's it mean for you?

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. Recognize what works?

[treestar]

62. Plus it's not, anyway

Either will get opposition from Congress.

In the unlikely even Trump wins, the VP would end up in the job quickly. Trump has no experience with politics, and would hate the job where he can't just order things to be done and they are.

[LittleBlue]

71. You're a smart guy

Keep making threads.

[1StrongBlackMan]

76. Thanks. I will ...

I guess.

[valerief]

72. Okay. Time for you to join my Forever Ignored Club. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. You responded to my OP, to tell me that? ...

Okay, and thanks for the kick ... though you will forever, not see this.

[Rebkeh]

73. The language is in the ear of the beholder

There are very clear differences. The same is happening with the word revolution. While one may think of violent upheaval, unrest. Political warring and instability. I think of it more like:

[1StrongBlackMan]

77. I agree with everything you've written ...

and I love Tracy Chapman!

[unapatriciated]

132. Tracy Chapman has been on my list of favorites for years.

during the the bush years I listened to it often, thinking when would we rise up and say enough is enough. I had hope when Obama ran and he did change many things for the better....but our revolution has just began. We need to continue to rise up and take what is ours and that means getting a Democrat into the oval office. I would like that to be Sanders but am not opposed to pulling the lever for Clinton. Once the primaries are over, we will again close ranks and fight for what is ours.

Climate Change should be on the top of the list, if we do not address it there will be nothing left to fight for. We could use it to solve many problems that we now face.

[Rebkeh]

145. I agree but

I don't believe for a second she would do anything except serve the status quo - the very thing we rise up against. Having a Democrat in office doesn't guarantee anything, least of all any real action for Climate Change.

She is beholden to the very polluters we fight.

Bernie is going to win anyway, so it doesn't matter.

[AgingAmerican]

78. Wow, that's some deep fallacial shit there!

False equivalence is a logical fallacy which describes a situation where there is a logical and apparent equivalence, but when in fact there is none. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. And....? Comparing Trump to Sanders is like comparing the Tea Party to the Green Party.

[1StrongBlackMan]

80. There ARE some like characteristics ... though the T/P has been far more effective. eom.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

82. Sure. Just as there are like characteristics between whales and field mice.

Or, a civil rights protest and Nazi parade.

But, there are also overwhelming differences.

[1StrongBlackMan]

84. Yes, there are overwhelming differences. eom.

[Vinca]

81. Obama referenced his movement in the second paragraph of this speech -

http://obamaspeeches.com/E02-Barack-Obama-Super-Tuesday-Chicago-IL-February-5-2008.htm


Are "movements" okay for some politicians and not for others?

[Bluenorthwest]

91. Hillary does it too, but we are not supposed to mention those facts nor the glaring

double standard being employed, I have been lectured about it already. The OP and his candidates have the inherent right to say and do anything but also to bash others for saying or doing the same thing.

[Live and Learn]

83. Clearly people think 'a movement' is needed. This is our chance to be on the correct side of it.

There will be 'a movement' regardless.

[Gothmog]

87. I would urge the Sanders supporters to NOT attend Trump events

You can try to reason with Trump supporters if you want but do not try this at a Trump event. The people at these events are scary

[Agnosticsherbet]

88. Bernie Sanders Wants Trump Voters

Bernie Sanders Wants Trump Voters
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders said on Sunday he thinks he can persuade supporters of Republican front runner Donald Trump to back him in the 2016 race.

Mr. Sanders of Vermont said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” that his message about economic inequality can appeal to Trump backers who are angry about lower wages and job losses.

“Many of Trump’s supporters are working-class people and they are angry,” Mr. Sanders said. “What Trump has done successfully, I would say, is take that anger, take that anxiety about terrorism and say to a lot of people in this country, look, the reason for our problems is because of Mexicans…or he says about the Muslims, they are all terrorists, and we got to keep them out of this country.”

Mr. Sanders said he aims to sway working- and middle-class Trump supporters that the Republican’s policies are ill-suited to placate their fears.

He appears to think that his appeal for economic inequality is a good fit for a voting block that answers to Trump's racist and sexist appeal.
I am sure that he is right that many are working class and hurting, but they are not going to respond to even a whiff of racial justice or women's rights.
Though Sanders has spoken of a need to bring about racial equality, if he is serious about it he will not appeal to white voters who feel threatened because Obama was elected twice.

[gwheezie]

89. I've noticed the same thing

Although Bernie has a much more cogent and realistic position on every issue, the call to voters is a populist movement directed at people who generally are dissatisfied with both parties but not enough to vote indie.
The difference between the 2 is huge, Bernie is a long time politician who has played within the lines for decades and trump is a carnival barker.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. They both have teeth, and feet.

Checkmate, berniebros!

[1StrongBlackMan]

106. Ohhh, I felt the bern!!!!!!! eom

[Warren DeMontague]

96. a moon launch involves movement, and so does a plane crash

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. PWD? eom

[NCTraveler]

97. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251946684

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. I have asked before; but, never quite, get an answer ...

so I'll frame the question this way ... Let's assume (the unlikely instance where) a President Sanders can get the $15.00 Minimum Wage, and Universal Healthcare, and Free College, and all of his proposed tax increases, and even, (though he hasn't proposed this) 100% public funding of elections ... the super-wealthy (the oligarchs) wiil STILL will be super-wealthy (powerful); and, the middle and low end of the working class will STILL be poor and powerless (in relation to the 1%) ... Right?

[NCTraveler]

119. A wise poster here once told me...

That the whole basis for Sanders and his support is exactly what is stated in the link I shared. I didn't buy in when I was originally told. It's now very clear that it's economics or bust, the rest be damned. I seem to have been a little slow on the uptake. I think I just didn't want to recognize some of the realities of the "far left."

[1StrongBlackMan]

120. A wise; but, anonymous interneter, once wrote ...

"Revolutionaries are less concerned with the system, so much as their place in that system."

[Bluenorthwest]

134. That's simply inaccurate. Sanders has a great deal of support based on other issues and it is all

based on his direct and honest approach. Your characterization of his supporters is offensive to me when so many of his supporters that I know are LGBT or members of other minority groups that are also still in the process of obtaining actual or even legal equality. For you to say to these people that they say it's economics and the rest be damned is just not right.
The strongest Bernie supporters I know are trans women and they are members of a group currently at the very bottom of the rights ladder, subjected to public rhetoric that is ugly and painful. To suggest that those persons care only about money is seriously objectionable. The fact that you do so with no basis in fact nor personal experience is arrogance boiled down to an essence.
In addition, the people you are speaking of are Democrats. These are people in need of legal protections in civil rights. A loyal and valuable Democratic voting block that you disparage just for nothing.

I could get into the overtones of this 'they only care about money' bullshit being thrown at Bernie but I'll just stick with the fact that I do not care to hear my friends denigrated We are Democrats, you are a Democrat. We are your equals. Your choice of candidates is not some Divine order. It is merely your choice in a primary. To malign and attack those who merely make a different primary choice than you do is not at all wise.

[NCTraveler]

135. I don't believe it to be innacurrate with respect to the base of his support in any way. nt.

Ask over ten million people who should currently be citizens as to what he and his supporters feel is priority.

[Bluenorthwest]

140. It is inaccurate and basically a string of unsupported and bigoted tropes. You offer nothing but

fantastic assertions, blurted out with a religious certainty It's hugely offensive. You are bashing away at Democrats, at people who in your State have zero legal protections from discrimination and saying they only care about money. I'm pointing out that this is false. That any thinking person would know that to be false, only those blinded by straight and economic privilege would not see how crazy it is to think that people lacking civil rights only care about money.

So I've said what I had to say and you failed to respond at all and other readers can look at the two and see that the only empathy and compassion is on the Bernie trail.

[NCTraveler]

141. "blurted out with a religious certainty " What?

It is fact that he fought against a pathway to citizenship because it didn't meet economic muster for him. That is an absolute fact.

"bigoted tropes"

Show me one.

"fantastic assertions"

"blurted out with a religious certainty "

" bashing away "

"any thinking person "

You accuse me of religious like certainty when these are the words you use. Truly bizzaro world. I have no idea where you are coming from with your post.

"in your State have zero legal protections from discrimination and saying they only care about money."

Never said such a thing. Your post is all over the place.

I still believe your original reply to be inaccurate. Your bombastic rhetoric did not sway me.

[Tarheel_Dem]

143. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:46 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

A wise poster here once told me...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7479252

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing someone of being "a little slow on the uptake" is way oot. This is a blatant personal attack and should be hidden.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:57 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster clear states the he/she was "slow on the uptake". Doesn't sound as if he/she is "accusing" anyone else.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster is certainly lying about what matters to Sanders supporters, and I frequently condemn the poster for the tactics they employ. They have become even more vitriolic of late, even comparing Bernie to Trump or suggesting that Iranians back him (so we shouldn't?). NCTraveler should be ashamed of the way he/she posts. That's a way of stating my perspective coming into this jury.

However, this alert is silly; he/she is saying that he/she was slow on the uptake, not another DU poster. Leave it alone.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster accused themselves of being "slow," not the alerter although I am inclined to see anyone who alerted on this innocuous comment as possibly being a bit "slow." Or at the very least looking to take offense over anything.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alert is rather odd. Nothing in post suggests the alert comments were justified.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Accusing one's self of being slow on the uptake, don't see where that is a blatant personal attack, alert is not a good alert.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seems like the poster is using "slow on the uptake" to describe him/herself. While the poster is militantly ignorant, I don't think the post is hideworthy. Clearly the poster needs a call on the clue phone though.

[JonLeibowitz]

146. A swing and a miss! That was a fun jury to serve on.

[Tarheel_Dem]

148. At least this jury was paying attention. Too many get hidden for nonsense.

[wendylaroux]

102. He shoots!!! He misses!!!!!

that is all.

[BlueCaliDem]

103. Nope. There's not, 1SBM.

[Jesus Malverde]

104. Thanks all for the laughs in this thread.

Needed some levity. The replies made me lol.

[1StrongBlackMan]

110. Thank you ... I guess ...

[cherokeeprogressive]

105. This post is a movement...

and it begs a courtesy flush.

[1StrongBlackMan]

111. Ohhh, I felt the bern with that! You're a witty one!!!!!! eom

[trillion]

109. uh no. Not AT ALL. Have you never listened to a word Bernie has said or looked at his record?

There is all the difference between trump and sanders. Trump said he'd give everything to the corporations and bernie said he wants to take it away for them. Bernie is talking single payer and a progam for immigrants to be here legally. Trump is taling deportations of millions and banning whole major religions from entering the country.

Is this a joke post? You can't possible be this uninformed?

[1StrongBlackMan]

115. I'm not talking about the policies underlying the the respective campaigns ...

I'm talking about the FORM of the campaigns (and now, it appears the audience of the campaigns is the same) ... you would know that, if you had taken a moment to read through the thread.

[Hortensis]

123. Brief, simple messages delivered forcefully

with deep conviction -- to angry, disaffected groups on both right and left who are feeling betrayed, in some cases by those they had put their trust in, assuming they'd be taken care of in return for their support, in other cases by those they just ignored out of lack of interest and irresponsibility.

You bet the similarities are strong -- as far as they go. The ultimate goals and ideology of each may be extremely different but the particular groups they're both going after are extremely, and alarmingly, similar in their eagerness to fixate on a strong-appearing leader who promises to overthrow the "establishment" and fix everything right away.

[1StrongBlackMan]

124. And this ...

the particular groups they're both going after are extremely, and alarmingly, similar in their eagerness to fixate on a strong-appearing leader who promises to overthrow the "establishment" and fix everything right away.

Is what, frankly, scares me ... from my understanding of history, it is exactly this that gave rise to fascist states, I.e., Mussolini and Hitler.

[Hortensis]

177. In my mind inevitably through the whole post.

Some time ago I read everything I could find on the rise of Nazism in one of the most advanced, well educated and Christian nations on the planet. The result was to destroy any naive notion I might have had that it couldn't happen here.

Speaking of potential dangers, Ted Cruz is heading to the GOP fore in more ways than one.

[1StrongBlackMan]

185. Yes Cruz is a threat that has me worried ...

Last edited Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:57 AM - Edit history (1)

The theocracy / theo-fascism that he makes no bones about his desire to implement, Is the stuff that should keep Democrats up at night.

And, make no mistake ... he is a very real and very well funded threat.

[Hortensis]

191. Cruz himself is currently pushing the "liberal fascism" lie hard,

like, of course, much of the conservative leadership -- a "look-THAT way" distraction so they can cold-cock voters who don't realize there is literally no such thing as liberal fascism.

Almost every time I look to the right these days I see signs of fascism. I guess it's inevitable that the "libertarian" wealth-grab movement would morph to look for ways to protect their riches and ability to continue accumulation.

"I would call attention to the parallels of Nazi Germany to its war on its "one percent," namely its Jews, to the progressive war on the American one percent, namely the "rich. ... This is a very dangerous drift in our American thinking. Kristallnacht was unthinkable in 1930; is its descendant "progressive" radicalism unthinkable now?" - Billionaire Tom Perkins reacting to the threat of future tax increases.

Well, it's in our hands.

[1StrongBlackMan]

193. Of course, You are correct ...

on all accounts.

That quote is really scary.

[Hortensis]

194. How about the right newly mobilized to even more

strenuously and mindlessly oppose every effort of the Democrats to stop the move toward fascism?

Which brings us back to The Anointed One. Isn't he now something like only 4% behind the unelectable Trump nationally?

Have a nice day anway, 1StrongBlackMan.

[cali]

127. sorry,but not only is that claim blatantly false, it's also plain old nutty.

[bowens43]

128. hillary is running a 'give me what is mine you fucking peons' campaign. That is all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

130. This OP has nothing to do with HRC. eom.

[Bluenorthwest]

138. That's because you left her use of the word 'movement' about her own campaign.

But in literature that's called 'the presence of absence'. In this way, Godot who is always absent is ever present in that play where they wait for him. Negative presence.
Point is all candidates who have said 'movement' in this cycle should be in your OP. You left one out. That does not make her irrelevant, it just makes your OP incomplete and thus obviously inaccurate.

[1StrongBlackMan]

142. That is because ... for the fourth time ... I was unaware of HRC's usage of the movement langauge ..

But keep on beating that horse ... maybe, it'll come to life.

[JHB]

129. So what? Only one of them has a record of being full of shit...

...and it's the most awesome, luxurious, high-energy shit that's ever existed!

That is all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

131. Both, the Bernie campaign AND the trump campaign are high-energy ...

that are peopled by (overly) enthusiastic supporters ... right do to the calls to physically assault protesters in their midst (and, majorities that while not making the call, are willing to look the other way, to such calls).

This should be a sign that something is terribly amiss ... but, it is not.

[Tarheel_Dem]

144. Well, since they're chasing the same demographic, I don't find it strange at all. Sickening...yes.

Strange? Not really.

Sanders says he’s courting Trump supporters

Source: Politico

Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders said Sunday he believes he can win over supporters of Republican front-runner Donald Trump, explaining that Trump has been successful at channeling working-class anger.

In a pre-taped interview for CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Sanders said many of Trump’s supporters are “working-class people” who have “legitimate” angers and fears because of decreasing wages and the rising cost of college tuition, among other reasons.

“What Trump has done with some success is taken that anger, taken those fears, which are legitimate, and converted them into anger against Mexicans, anger against Muslims,” Sanders said.

The Vermont senator said he would instead work to channel that same anger into support for proposals such as raising the minimum wage — as opposed to “dividing us up and having us hate Mexicans or Muslims.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-217147

Although it was locked as "off topic", thanks to Cali Democrat for posting this little tidbit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

147. As I had mentioned ...

the Bernie campaign has made no bones about whom he would be seeking to attract, from the start ... and more so, with his failure to gain traction in the African-American/Latino electorates.

Liberty University was a very telling moment ... for those listening.

[Tarheel_Dem]

149. Frankly, I never listen to BS. I don't do the whole demagogue thing, but I've watched as his...

campaign has taken pages from the Trump playbook. The whole spat with the DNC/Media is right out of Trump's playbook. The problem is that BS and his supporters seem to want to burn the whole thing down if they're not catered to. I wish he would take these damn Republicans he's stealing away from Trump, and leave us the f**k alone.

[Tarheel_Dem]

155. Not interested.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nc/north_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-5175.html

[Vinca]

161. So candidates shouldn't reach out to people they disagree with and try to change their minds?

Amazing.

[1StrongBlackMan]

164. Yes ... it is proving a useful, and helpful, tactic for a candidate ...

running as a Democrat, to attempt to replace a staunch and steadfast segment of the Democratic base, with folks that consistently oppose the interests of those staunch and steadfast segment of the Democratic base.

Please proceed.

[Vinca]

173. Apparently you didn't quite get my point.

I'm sure if people in the Liberty University crowd remain committed to their right wing beliefs, they won't come anywhere near the Democratic Party. Is it so horrible to toss a little bait and see if there might be a handful of the semi-sane who would? It often seems when they actually hear from people on the left it jogs their memories about the teachings of Jesus they are faithful to and they realize lefties are more interested in feeding the poor, healing the sick, etc. than making sure the bankers can become obscenely wealthy as a result of no regulation.

[1StrongBlackMan]

174. I get your point precisely ...

or, rather, the point of the campaign's Liberty University tactic/strategy ... woo them on the hope that they can replace the Black/Latino electorate ... that they are having trouble reaching.

[Vinca]

182. Oh good heavens. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

[1StrongBlackMan]

186. Of course it is; but, all evidence suggests ...

It is, none the less, true.

[Jim Lane]

189. You have no evidence at all.

Sanders asserts that many Trump supporters are frustrated with the status quo (true), that many of their grievances are legitimate (true), that they are receptive to a candidate who will challenge the status quo (true), and that Trump has gained popularity with them by channeling their frustration into racism, xenophobia, and misogyny (true). Sanders further expresses the hope that at least some of those Trump supporters can be won away from Trump by getting them to realize that the traditional values of the Democratic Party offer real solutions to their legitimate grievances, as opposed to Trump's snake oil.

You appear to imply that, if Sanders were currently polling a higher percentage of the black vote, he would therefore disdain a possible source of support; that, for example, he would have refused to speak at Liberty University, and would not voice his belief that some Trump supporters have some legitimate grievances.

I see no evidence for those propositions. Candidates seek support where they think they might get enough results to make it worth their time. Sanders could have overwhelming support from the black community and he would still have gone to Liberty to try to add to his total, just as Clinton, with a big lead in the polls, continues to campaign hard and try to add to her total.

By the way, is there anything Sanders said at Liberty that you think was ignobly pandering to the right-wingers? I thought his speech was, in fact, a defense of the traditional values of the Democratic Party.

[1StrongBlackMan]

192. Yes ...

I do believe if Sanders were polling a higher percentage of the black vote, he wouldn't have gone to Liberty University. Or, at best ... he would have gone after he had shored up/gained the trust of the Black vote.

Candidates seek support where they think they might get enough results to make it worth their time.

And they used to avoid speaking at places that might antagonize the traditional base ... but then, again, I keep forgetting the Democratic base is not necessarily Bernie's base ... and why would/should it be? ... Bernie is a progressive; but/and, he is a Democrat of convenience.

By the way, is there anything Sanders said at Liberty that you think was ignobly pandering to the right-wingers?

Not a word ... rather, as you said, it was a great speech.

[wendylaroux]

152. this nasty thread still up?

bunch of cry babies.

Support Bernie or get a better candidate,you'll be happier.

[Cassiopeia]

154. Am I allowed to say Hillary is running the same campaign

That Hitler ran?

Bernie is not Trump.

[n2doc]

157. You are smarter than this

That is all.

[FlatBaroque]

170. No it is not

[Matariki]

159. I used to like and respect your posts

Lately, not so much.

[MissDeeds]

163. I'm way ahead of you n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

178. Nothing wrong with his post. He is just making an observation

[Matariki]

179. No, that is not what he's doing.

He's drawing a false comparison between Sanders and Trump. Presumably for the purpose of smearing Sanders. Let's not pretend this post exists in a vacuum or it's anything other than what it is.

I can't wait until the primaries are over. GD: P is a pointless cesspool and I'm losing respect for some people I used to really admire.

[Enthusiast]

180. When I make a less offensive observation than that my posts are hidden.

[Warpy]

181. Both are populists and running contrary to the wishes of their respective party power brokers

and both have NY accents and they're both white guys. That's where the similarity ends.

Both candidacies are symptoms of deeper problems within the parties, the fact that neither party has the full support of its members, who have finally figured out they've gotten screwed without getting kissed for years.

[RedCappedBandit]

184. Not a lot of difference because of one similarity?

[countryjake]

188. When a capitalist pig like trump speaks of "movement" it means only one thing...

more oppression for the common people. And the reactionaries who see themselves as the makers of his "movement" wouldn't hesitate to tromp on the backs of anyone and everyone who may object.

I like and respect you, OneStrongBlackMan, but have you actually confronted and engaged in discussion with any trump stumpers, so far in this Primary Season? His so-called "movement"?

While I also can't see a positive outcome resulting from supporting any revisionary "movement", I believe that your comparison is way to simplistic and basically fails to recognize the enormous chasm that lies between the principles of these two men, despite the language either of them might use in their campaigns.