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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThese Students Are Leading a Movement for Free College in the United States
At last, real organizing for tuition-free college is taking off in America.
BY REBECCA NATHANSON - ACT LOCALLY » DECEMBER 15, 2015
On Nov. 12, 2015, students at the University of California, Berkeley, redecorated their idyllic campus with a “wall of shame.” On pieces of paper taped to the administration building, students proclaimed how much debt they had assumed in order to attend the prestigious university—for some, more than $160,000.
With chants of, “Free college: That’s our right. What do we do? Fight, fight, fight,” the students called for an increasingly popular solution to the growing burden of student debt: abolishing tuition entirely at public colleges and universities.
Throughout most of the 20th century, many public colleges and universities were free, or nearly so. California’s landmark 1960 Master Plan for Higher Education, for example, was essentially a pledge to educate all residents of the state who wanted an education for free or for a nominal fee. But the plan was soon attacked by Gov. Ronald Reagan, who painted free public higher education as welfare for privileged twenty-somethings and began shifting costs to students when he took office in 1967. Today, the total cost of tuition and fees at the state’s public University of California campuses stands at $12,240 for in-state residents. City University of New York (CUNY), likewise, didn’t begin charging tuition until 1976. It now costs $6,330 per year for in-state students, not including fees.
The idea of free higher education has gained new political life thanks in part to a high-profile champion. Sen. Bernie Sanders has made tuition-free college a signature issue of his presidential campaign, calling it the key to a “stronger economy and a stronger democracy.” Under Sanders’ plan, the federal government would cover the cost by imposing a financial transaction tax on Wall Street. Sanders has stressed that public universities are already tuition- free in Germany, Mexico and many other countries, and said in a June 2015 interview that he believed they could be free in the United States, as well, if a million young people marched in the streets to demand it...
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http://inthesetimes.com/article/18675/these-students-are-demanding-higher-education-at-lower-costs4
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Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
They went into their debt generation with their eyes wide open.
think
(11,641 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)That university is enormously expensive, and they want us to pay for their choice? BULLSHIT!
College isn't free, and Berkeley is light years away from being free.
You want free education? Okay -- go to a local commuter/community college. Take your courses online from low end MOOC source. Your instructor can be a flow of electrons or some underpaid, underqualified local who teaches as a hobby.
But, don't bellyache about the cost of your education when you purposely selected one of the most competitive, selective universities on the planet.
think
(11,641 posts)So the only affordable college education should be an inferior one.
Otherwise you deserve to get soaked on tuition if you want any degree of quality. Got it....
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)If you want free/ubercheap education no matter who you are? Yeah, your options are limited.
For all decent colleges and universities, there's a mountain of financial assistance out there in the form of grants and scholarships for those who qualify. Not everyone qualifies.
Soaked? No. You choose to go to Berkeley or an Ivy League school or MIT or CalTech because you want the best of the best of the best. And why? Because that education is valuable to you and you're willing to pay.
I know this doesn't fit the socialist model, but this is not a socialist country.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)...killing everyone who doesn't think like you, right?
Did you not say that?
We're done here.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)rich.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)are doing on this site. Someone who graduates with a mountain of debt and uncertain job prospects will be unable to buy a house, a new car or start a family. Your posts suggest you have no problem with that. There's something quasi-sociopathic about your attitude and most definitely un-Democratic.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)has made a foolish investment. My daughter commuted to a state university-it was reasonable-the lottery provides almost universal scholarships as well. The idea that someone spends a $160,000 for an unmarketable degree is just not a good plan.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)with a mountain of debt but, so long as you and yours don't have that mountain of debt, you aren't opposed to it philosophically???
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)On the low end of the cost scale is the community college. Locals can attend these at a very low cost. They offer a wide variety of classes, varying in rigor and content. Some online education is available as well.
For state residents, their state institutions constitute a step up in quality and greater cost. However, they are still affordable for most, particularly with the vast amount of money available in scholarships and grants. These schools vary from state-to-state in their costs and quality.
Out of state schools and private schools are very expensive. Some are fantastic quality, offering a high quality alternative to those who choose this route. Some are extraordinarily expensive, and some are quite selective.
A plan does not exist to make all colleges free for everyone. Period. It is impractical and not affordable for any government. The plans for free education being considered by the Dems do not go past the community college level, and it will still cost billions.
Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #21)
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Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
You weak-assed insults flow like water. Drop the shit and join the conversation.
B2G
(9,766 posts)I'm guessing you can't, so you resort to name calling.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)I have this feeling the His Highness is not who he pretends to be. I mean, I know he isn't Charlemagne, but the ridiculous over-the-top harping laced with insults isn't typical of our resident democratic socialists.
Just sayin'... 
B2G
(9,766 posts)MO of some it seems.
think
(11,641 posts)MAKE TUITION FREE AT PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.
This is not a radical idea. Last year, Germany eliminated tuition because they believed that charging students $1,300 per year was discouraging Germans from going to college. Next year, Chile will do the same. Finland, Norway, Sweden and many other countries around the world also offer free college to all of their citizens. If other countries can take this action, so can the United States of America.
In fact, it’s what many of our colleges and universities used to do. The University of California system offered free tuition at its schools until the 1980s. In 1965, average tuition at a four-year public university was just $243 and many of the best colleges – including the City University of New York – did not charge any tuition at all. The Sanders plan would make tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout the country.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)I have this nasty hunch that, once the feds start pumping money into public higher education, they will want to control it completely.
DFW
(54,379 posts)If the next Republican administration offers free Liberty Universities or Oral Roberts Universities to all, what kind of citizens will we be churning out? Preventive, ironclad safeguards must be put in place if this is EVER to happen. Otherwise, whereas I have no qualms about a sensible financing scheme for funding public colleges being concocted, we must NEVER be susceptible to a situation where Ted Cruz can set the curriculum of anything higher than a tree nursery.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Will his plan cover EVERYONE, or just low income students? Is there an income test to receive free tuition?
Will this cover all expenses, like room and board, books, etc.?
What will the total cost be? How much will that 'fraction of a percent' bring in to cover the cost? All of it? A portion of it?
Ms. Yertle
(466 posts)Germany doesn't give a free education to everyone. They have standards, and if you don't meet them, you are shit out of luck. Can you imagine what would happen here the first time some precious little snowflake was told he/she isn't college material?
DFW
(54,379 posts)The standards are sometimes unfairly applied, too. If you don't get accepted into a top high school (starts at 5th grade, too), called a "Gymnasium," your chances of getting to study in a German university are little and none. Plus each major (you study your major from day one) has a GPA cut off. If you didn't make the government-set GPA for your subject, you are either SOL if you're too low, or get put on a waiting list that may take years. Some friends of ours had kids of near genius level, but didn't click with their Gymnasium teachers, and didn't get the necessary GPAs, so they spent the money to privately have their kids study (economics in Holland for the boy, medicine in Austria for the daughter) elsewhere. They earn good money, so they could. Most can't. My daughters got hell from their English teachers here in Germany because they knew English far better than their teachers. The teachers resented it, and gave them bad grades which lowered their GPA. Right around then, my parents passed away, and fortunately left me (barely!) enough to pay for their private education in the States, but that was a HUGE exception to the rule here. There are a LOT of gifted, frustrated Germans who should have been studying on the university level and never will get the chance, despite that they would never have had to pay for it--IF they had been allowed to study.
As for MY precious little snowflake, I get a laugh at that one, since a couple of prestigious US Universities attended by members of my generation of my family keep asking for alumni donations. They turned my kids and my brother's kids down for admission. Fair enough--it's their playground. But then they keep coming to me and my brother, who never got a cent in financial aid (my parents saved and bit the bullet, which wasn't as bad in the early 1970s as it now), for alumni donations. We both tell them to fuck off, since our kids weren't good enough for them. My younger daughter now makes a 1% type of salary here in Germany, since she, with her "second tier" education in the States, was apparently good enough to secure one of the highest paying jobs in her field (international law) in all of Europe by age 29. She paid her dues. Instead of clerking with some Supreme Court Justice during the summer like the Harvard Kids, she joined the UN War Crimes Tribunal in Sierra Leone--almost died there, too, but that's another story, especially since she didn't.
think
(11,641 posts)
And your point?
B2G
(9,766 posts)DFW
(54,379 posts)I paid between 4 and 8 times for my two children to go to college in the USA what my parents paid for me and my two siblings.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)And anything less than Stanford or Berkeley or MIT is inferior?
Got it....
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
hunter
(38,312 posts)... and buys their education as a Great Value set of DVDs.
For every university educated lunatic like myself there are at least nine university graduates doing their best to keep your shit together.
I'm extremely biased. I was on hand, a lowly undergraduate, as BSD was released into the wild.
But I'm not talking just about Science-Technology-Engineering-Medicine. Those are just a few of the arts essential to making this world a better place.
Energy-wise and resource-wise, education is cheap.
It ought to be free for anyone, at any age.
What we now call "economic productivity" is a direct measure of the damage we are doing to earth's natural environment and the human spirit.
That's not "productivity." That's hell.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Better her than some keyboard warrior.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)And, I like a lot of what she has in mind.
States have been funding a lower and lower percentage of in-state education, and this is a big factor in rising costs of higher ed. See the states pick this up would be fantastic.
PatrickforO
(14,574 posts)burdened by has risen from $26,000 in 2013 to over $31,000 now. Hate to burst your bubble, but the problem is ubiquitous. This, coupled with the fact that over 14% of student loans default within three years and the lion's share of these defaults are from private for-profit 'schools,' then we see that we have allowed our system to totally fuck over our children and grandchildren.
Bottom line, employers are crying out for more and more and more skilled workers. Our young people should not have to make the decision to go to college or not by weighing the debt load they will incur versus lifetime earnings benefits. That isn't only unfair to our kids, but it screws our businesses because then they cannot find the college educated people they need.
You can see how this has played out using the US Census American Factfinder Advanced Search. Go in there, click on 'topics' then 'people' then 'education' then 'field of degree' and you can get tables that show field of degree by sex by age. Simply put this on Excel, add the total of both sexes together by age band and you will see that:
- 52.7 million Americans that have bachelors degrees
- Of these, 31.4 million are aged 40 to 64, and only 21.3 million are aged 25 to 39
- What this means is that as 1.25 million degree-holding people 'age out' of the labor force each year, 1.42 million new degree holders come in
- This is a net increase of degree holders of just over 162,000 per year
What makes this statistic truly alarming is the number of jobs requiring a bachelors degree or above is expected to increase by 4.2 million over the next 10 years. This means that the net labor force demand for people with bachelors degrees is about 421,500 per year.
This is a deficit of nearly 260,000 degreed workers per year, and employers are already feeling that shortage.
So, you scoff at students you say went in 'eyes open' but we need to fix this problem. We're not GIVING anybody ANYTHING our society doesn't need by investing in free education for our kids. Also you'll note that Bernie's platform is 'free education in state schools to bachelor level.' This will cull out all the bullshit for profit non accredited fly by night schools that run commercials on late night TV and victimize the most naive among our children by hard selling a dubious education.
In short, Buzz, the kids at Berzerkely are RIGHT.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)If so, I will support it.
I will NOT support an agist policy that only the young can get a free education while older workers who are being shut out of the employment market due to outdated skills have to pay up or do without.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)!
TheBlackAdder
(28,201 posts).
I'm getting up there, at the age where it would be hard to find a replacement job.
My brother and I had this discussion, about why for decades he's been paying school taxes when they have no kids. I mentioned about the community he lives in, the civic responsibility for future generations, etc.. Then I thought.
Us older folk should be able to take continuing education, at least at the country level--coming out of county taxes, as township education funds are separate. People without children should be able to reap some type of education, above those with children, since they put the same amount of financial skin in the game, without having the ability for their household to reap any real benefits.
===
Now, the self-affecting part comes in because most social programs get shot down when people ask, 'What's in it for me?" and then are against it if they believe their taxes will go up accordingly.
===
As someone who knows ageism exists in the workforce, someone came to be and said they were being warehoused. He had gray hair and I discussed the realities of an older IT person's perception in an industry that praises the ignorance of young IT workers who are marginally trained, and most do not know how to read compiled code, know machine instruction sets, know 2-phase commits, and multi-platform interaction--just they are cheap and know how to use modern rapid development tools (Even though they don't know what happens behind the scene, they are just good at plugging the modules and hoping the software does the rest.). I asked him to dye his hair and dress more fashionably, he did and he said he was treated as a peer.
Now, while ageism is illegal in most states, it exists even at the subconscious level. That would be the quickest things to change first. Skills can be learned on-line, There are many free college sites that offer training modules for at-home CBT. It's the motivation to take them. I'm in continuing ed, paying $1300 a class at my state school. I took one class on campus and one CBT for the fall, and will be taking a CBT over winter, and one classroom and two CBTs in the spring semester. YOu don't need to be enrolled in college to learn new traits, you do need to go through college if you are younger and trying to break into today's workforce.
I am for continuing education, especially if you are a paying contributor to the government largess
.
DFW
(54,379 posts)I think this was right before he became a famous household name, so I don't think he was accepted for name recognition, but rather because he is a genius. He never went into law per se. He ended his career in the military (where he gained his fame originally) with an obscure office of the Pentagon that searches out old battlefields for MIAs to try and find traces of MIAs to provide their families with closure. This is typical of him, by the way, and not AT ALL as he was portrayed in a somewhat successful film (at the time, anyway--almost 30 years ago now) about him.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Because everyone knows it's not going to be 'free'.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Odd your query, as the article illustrated the low cost of college the students currently desire prior to the Reagan governorship...
"Throughout most of the 20th century, many public colleges and universities were free, or nearly so. California’s landmark 1960 Master Plan for Higher Education, for example, was essentially a pledge to educate all residents of the state who wanted an education for free or for a nominal fee. But the plan was soon attacked by Gov. Ronald Reagan, who painted free public higher education as welfare for privileged twenty-somethings and began shifting costs to students when he took office in 1967."
"everyone knows it's not going to be 'free'."
Much as everyone know white is not a color... no doubt, you consistently apply that same admonishment to painters such as Monet who refer to it as such.
B2G
(9,766 posts)Actually Reagan didn't have much to do with this, but not for lack of trying. Tuition was imposed in the 80's after he was long gone, for a variety of reasons.
*****************************************************************
CALIFORNIA WEIGHS END OF FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION
By ROBERT LINDSEY, Special to the New York Times
Published: December 28, 1982
LOS ANGELES, Dec. 27— California's public system of higher education, long the envy of many other states, is edging toward acceptance of something even Ronald Reagan, as Governor, could not force upon it: tuition.
The California Postsecondary Education Commission recommended earlier this month that the state abandon one of the cornerstones of its college and university system, a pledge that the state will pay instructional expenses for all residents.
The recommendation was the latest evidence of deep stresses bedeviling the long-admired California system of higher education. In hindsight, many educators say, the system was allowed to grow too large in the 1960's and is now having difficulty adapting to the falling birth rate, a state fiscal crisis and changing demands from students.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/12/28/science/california-weighs-end-of-free-college-education.html?_r=0
jwirr
(39,215 posts)B2G
(9,766 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)started. They still had it in the 70s.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)will I get my money back if Bernie wins? It only seems fair
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Social Security checks? It only seems fair.
And what about the unpaid labor of slaves before 1865?
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)15 years ago, the UC system banned Affirmative Action, and attendance at these schools by African Americans and Latinos plummeted.
If you want to make your school super selective, then pay for it. You cannot ask the public at large to pay for your schooling and then don't admit them.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_23516740/affirmative-action-ban-at-uc-15-years-later
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)the self-hating African American who pushed Prop 209, yet another example of how the initiative process has been perverted from its progressive origins (cf. Prop 13, Prop 182, and of course Prop H8). 
You are correct about the effect of 209 on UC. It's reached the point where AA students feel more comfortable at Cal's archrival Stanford than at Berkeley! 
Politicsandhiphop
(28 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)free colleges and know it can be done.
MichMan
(11,929 posts)As someone who had to borrow in order to have any chance at college when it was less expensive than now, I understand that it is a laudable goal
However, I do not understand how something like free college would be implemented.
1) Schools have widely varying costs. In the article in the OP, California is $12K per year while CUNY is $6K per year. Would the government just pay $12K for one student and $6K for another? If so, why wouldn't CUNY raise their tuition to $12K and double their revenue? Or do they tell California that they are only getting $6K and must cut current tuition rates to that level.
2) If University of Michigan is "free" and nearby Washtenaw Community College is also "free", why would anyone decide to attend the community college vs a major state university with all the amenities?
3) Bernie's plan has the Federal Government pay 2/3 with the states responsible for the remaining 1/3. I understand the plan for the tax on Wall Street for the Federal portion, but how will the states get the money for their portion?
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Universities have limited capacity.
People still attend Ohio University when the cost to attend Ohio State University is roughly the same.
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=1807
http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg03_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=391
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)
madville
(7,410 posts)For our multiple degrees. My brother got a Bachelors from FSU with little out of pocket under Bright Futures and grants, his company later paid for his MBA tuition. My sister got her Bachelors under the same scholarship and grants, then as an elementary school teacher the state or her school district paid for her tuition to get her Masters from a state university.
I got a technical school certificate and an Associates at no cost through military tuition assistance while I was active duty. I transferred my whole unused GI Bill to my 18 year old son.
It's possible to get an education at little to no cost, it's not going to be a $50,000 a year one but it works just as well in many cases.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Tuition has far out-paced inflation. I don't believe a college edecation should be "free" however. That just would not work.
Anyone who takes out $160,000 in loans for a liberal arts degree might be book smart, but lack common sense.
randys1
(16,286 posts)one we will have to beg or be in debt forever.
You beg and get a grant maybe or a scholarship.
The US govt is hugely to blame in this AS is the current Dem administration as they dont seem interested in reversing the process to a sensible one.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)a number of posts in this thread that leave little doubt that this site has changed considerably over the years. (*sigh*)
hughee99
(16,113 posts)during their careers.
