General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIts Christmas time. And once again, the DU Grinches are out and about.
True enough, it is also time for non Christian holidays. Talking about Christmas takes NOTHING away from the other holidays.
So today DU seems full of some really sour shit.
To wit, and with much interpretative hyperbole, here are two examples:
Gingerbread houses are intended to kill children
I am not a religious person. I am not a bigot nor one who would exclude one religion in favor of another. I am not one who would hurt children.
But I AM someone who has nothing but fond, warm memories about Christmas, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, wreaths and gingerbread houses. So are my now adult children. Indeed, I honestly don't know a kid who was hurt by any of these childhood myths.
It is a good thing these screeds posted here on DU have as much effect on the holidays as a fart has in a windstorm.
To all who enjoy Christmas, I say, with warmth and affection, ans in as many ways as possible:
I was going to link to have my very favorite carol (O Holy Night) play but thought that a little over the top.
Johonny
(20,851 posts)saturnsring
(1,832 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)for the little kids. some ass hat at my old school told her kids (little bitty ones) that Santa doesn't exist. Children went home hysterical. There is a special circle in hell for people like this. Truth? Fuck it. Why not tell your kid that they have only a few decades if they're lucky before they die, probably in a terrible way from cancer? I don't get some people. Merry Christmas to all.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 05:43 PM - Edit history (2)
Delivered Packages Every Year...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)O'Reilly's "war on Xmas" is just a thinly Christian persecution" thing, which has zero to do with this OP.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)You're totally correct. This OP couldn't be further from an O'Liely-ism.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I will never understand why some feel entitled, if not, compelled to pissed on another's beliefs/joy ... especially when no one asks them to believe, accept, or even understand that belief/joy.
At least, I hope to never understand.
ProfessorGAC
(65,042 posts)I'm as anti-religion as they come, but what do i care what days people celebrate.
I have nostalgia for the christmas times of my youth. I feel no shame in that.
The church stuff, i don't miss at all. But, if people want to go to midnight mass, that doesn't affect me. Why should it bother me?
And the criticisms based upon the "crass consumerism" of the season seem naive. If it wasn't for December 25th, we'd find another day to do it.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I care about someone's religious practices, or what they tell their kids about Santa Claus, about as much as someone entering into a SSM, or whether they smoke dope, or any of the othere things us liberals insist are none of our damned business.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)E.G. I never say happy holidays to someone I know celebrates Christmas, nor do I wish my jewish friends anything but happy hannukkah. If I know the relgiious beliefs of the friend I follow that. I think it is only courteous...
Stinky The Clown
(67,799 posts)It is the cutting down of Christmas that frosts my ass.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)car system and avoid the commercialization (that's what ffrosts my ass!). And I hope you have a BIG xmas tree to trim...
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Curious to the new rules being made about Christmas
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)And they're the ones making the new rules.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)Flying Squirrel
(3,041 posts)So why should it offend a Christian? Unless they just WANT to be offended.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)LOL
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)with a post that says who you are without knocking anyone else...with one exception....you are trying to be inclusive w/o being inclusive....because the internet is essentially "the public airwaves" with many many channels ...you have the option of going to the christmas channels to express your enthusiasm.....for christmas....i know what a concept; celebrating christmas on the christmas channel...not the POLITICAL channel...unless...unless you are intending christmas to be a political statement. be that as it may....I am tolerant...if you had all included a "and Peace and Good Will to all my Non-Christian friends" with out categorizing them (including every non christian in the universe).....then I think you might have a case....because your message as it stands does not include everyone....and therefore is the opposite of the christmas spirit you intend....which is to not leave anyone out.....that is what christmas is about....you don't say here are some christmas cookies for my christmas friend and screw you jews and muslims...you offer christmas cookies to your non christmas friends as well by acknowledging them...and wishing them well...it's just good manners...and in the christmas spirit....Cheers, Maggie
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And, don't let those that wallow in their own misery pull you in.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)I will try to stay on the love train... have a peaceful solstice...I am practicing radical acceptance this year ;O
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Why some feel, not only entitled; but, compelled to pissed on the beliefsame of others ... especially, when those beliefs have nothing to do with them, nor are they asked to believe, accept, or even understand the beliefs.
At leasr, I hope to never understand it.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Not so much Grinch, as much as irrational individuals merely in love with sounding clever. Were it only Christmas, I'd agree with your premise, however in the examples I've seen, it's pretty much the same posters who will argue anything simply for the sake of arguing... and yes, even to the point of arguing the denial of a childhood to children.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)Thank you.
And a Merry Christmas to you and yours!
muriel_volestrangler
(101,316 posts)to get any kind of justification for your use of 'grinches' in your title, your OP comes across more as "look at me!!!!!!" than "Merry Christmas". The straw in the manger wasn't meant to be used to build strawmen.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)DinahMoeHum
(21,788 posts)Merry Christmas
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And that's a great carol too
meow2u3
(24,764 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)From my childhood.
Santa, elves, reindeer, fun, joy fantasy, the music the magic...LOVED it all!
I also grew up with the Nativity scenes...moved me, and have several on display now.
Thank you so much for this post, and have a very Merry Christmas!
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)Merry Christmas.
My daughter is so excited for Santa to come. And in her letter to him, she asked him to look out for children whose families don't have as much as we do. Her own idea. And she's five. So then she and I went and bought toys for kids through NY Cares and Toys for Tots "to help Santa."
I love this time of year. I love NYC when everything is decorated. I love that it's magical for my five year old daughter and many of her friends. She has many friends who don't celebrate Christmas, so we've been learning about other faiths and backgrounds and what they do celebrate and why. It brings up fantastic discussions in our household.
brer cat
(24,565 posts)I love my childhood memories of the "myths" as do my daughter and granddaughters. The light that shines in a child's eyes as he/she sees the lights, the trees, the presents from Santa are more precious than jewels to me.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Enjoy the holiday however you want, but the idea that a kid can't enjoy Christmas unless you lie about Santa being real is absurd.
JI7
(89,249 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Every store, every elevator, every TV ad, every GD song on the radio is a bloody x-mas carol. ENOUGH ALREADY!
ileus
(15,396 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)I hear all some of those people do is bite the heads off the gingerbread men.
Javaman
(62,530 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Then kids reach an age and stop believing in Santa Claus etal. However, they don't all stop believing in god.
What stops them from taking that last step?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)They are allowed to let go of Santa once they see how silly and phony it is. When they come to the same conclusion about gawd and jeebus, though, they are threatened with alienation and eternal damnation if they abandon beliefs that are just as silly.
valerief
(53,235 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)How about bending over backwards for the Christmas believers and even religious who believe in God. That is tolerance. Not only being tolerant on those that are acceptable.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)to accommodate an exclusive parochial smugly privileged majority? In what other instance could you boldly make that claim here and not be tombstoned?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Jeebus is not showing tolerance. I'd never say anything nasty to an atheist, Muslim, Jewish believer, ect. However many seem to Christians here. A progressive site no less. You don't have to agree. I'm just pointing out what I have noticed. No biggie.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)whining about a couple of places on the internet where the rest of us can vent about being a hated marginalized tiny minority and not risk death, assault, dismissal or ostracism is a striking example of religious privilege.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)you're not the one who gets spat on, beaten, and fired for your opinion, all of which have happened to me and far worse to others. The LAST remaining acceptable utter bigotry and hate in the US is against non-Christians and you lot can't even let us complain about it anonymously on a leftist site. If this was ANY other minority the entirety of DU would howl for bans with the way nonbelievers are treated here.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Problems. Glad you agree with me about the Christian bashing. Only education will stop it. Have a great night and weekend! Merry Christmas! Enjoy.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 18, 2015, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)
"Bending over backwards". It does not mean refraining from criticizing things that are silly, foolish or annoying (among other things). It means allowing things to go on even if you regard them as such., when people have the right to do them.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)But we tolerate everyone regardless of beliefs. Sorry but that includes Christians.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)I said nothing about "hating Islam." But yes, we do "tolerate" people who hate Islam, because they have that right, just as people here have the right to hate Republicans. Tolerating them does not mean we do not criticize or speak out against them, any more than it means not speaking out or criticizing those who murder others in the name of their misbegotten religion.
You need to do a lot more thinking and understanding of what "tolerance" really means.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)But we really want there to be.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)the spirit of giving to others, doing for others, in an altruistic manner, it can help.
I still believe in the spirit of altruistically giving to and doing for others, but have moved past needing an anthropomorphic personification. I also still believe in that same spirit along with being as good a person as I can, not hurting people or anything without needing an anthropomorphic personification.
Some people find the personification helpful. Some, however, focus only on that anthropomorphic personification and miss the reason, the spirit behind it.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and seeing if he comes? But there's no straightforward way to prove that God does not exist? Also that smart people like Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that God exists but do not believe that Santa exists?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)What these so-called "grinches" are really saying about Xmas (you know, like, exact quotes and links), instead of just inventing things to be unhappy about because you can't generate your faux outrage from the truth?
Either that, or link to where anyone actually said:
Santa is a lie that is killing children
Gingerbread houses are intended to kill children
Hekate
(90,686 posts)chalmers
Stop lying to your children about Santa Claus
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027452511
and this
hedgehog
Gingerbread houses - why?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027453225
MisterP
(23,730 posts)it used to be that if some baying Philistine was tearing up Catholic Hosts, condemning fairy tales and Santa Claus as deviating for children, insisting that only the most fundamentalist literalist interpretations of Scripture are valid and that everyone else is just cherrypicking, citing Kersey Graves and Alexander Hislop, warning us to not trust academics (especially philosophers, historians, and theologians) because they contradict some 1910s eccentric, backing torture and Israel no matter what, bellowing "kill 'em all and let THEIR god sort 'em out!" and ranting about the Popish-Muslim threat to Civilization they were Ian Paisley
deutsey
(20,166 posts)MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Although I'm not religious, and am in fact a reluctant agnostic, "O Holy Night" always brings me to tears.
The holiday season for me, as a child, was all about peace, love, hope and joy. Who could argue with that?
K&R
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)I was never traumatized by believing in Santa Claus or making/looking at gingerbread houses, and neither was anyone else I know or have ever known. I agree the whole "war on Christmas" and "keep Christ in Christmas" and hullabaloo over saying "Merry Christmas" and the like is stupid and annoying as hell (especially since the people who get worked up over it often care more about that crap than they do actually acting like Christ in serving and helping others). But we can also get too worked up and go too far, and we've shown that here over the past few days with those ridiculous threads.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)F Christmas's Mother!
F Christmas's Daddy
Hekate
(90,686 posts)hunter
(38,312 posts)... I've tried over the years, but I'm tired.
My childhood Christmases were often times of family religious warfare.
Even when everyone was civil, the knives shooting out of peoples' eyes and flying about the room comic book style could leave people severely wounded.
I'm a burnt out autistic spectrum dude who is tired of acting. I don't like the noise, I don't like the shopping.
Oh, and as a kid I was also frequently very ill around Christmas. There wasn't any cold or flu that my reactive lungs couldn't turn into a serious pneumonia, and god, could there be anything worse than people trying to cheer up the poor little sick kid shot up with drugs and wearing an oxygen mask?
My dad's sister, before modern antibiotics, died as a child, in similar circumstances. I guess she had lungs like mine.
Maybe had I emigrated to Australia as a footloose young man, would my feelings about Christmas have evolved into something pleasant?
The last time I went out with my wife and kids to buy a Christmas Tree, this was several years ago, I was sicker than usual, full of drugs, it was maybe 33oF and drizzling. My parents in their retirement have abandoned all pretenses of tradition, no older relatives to appease. They live in a tropical rain forest, in a house I've never visited. They drink and bathe in water that falls on their roof. They buy food from local farmers. They'd sent me an email photo of their "Christmas Tree," a big dead branch of driftwood they'd found, put up in their living room, and they were hanging Christmas Cards on it as they received them.
So very wonderful their lives are now compared to the Christmas "cheer" of my childhood...
I tell stories, but honestly some of my favorite childhood Christmases were truly the most horrible, like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7455593
Okay, I've changed a few details for the sake of the children...
Too many were simply sordid, like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7452563
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)And I have to say that none of my grown kids seem to have been damaged by the Santa myth either.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)RandySF
(58,832 posts)RandySF
(58,832 posts)DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)And I guess keep in mind that the HOlidays aren't a happy time for some people.
Bryant
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Johnson County Schools Superintendent Thomas Salyer told the Herald-Leader Tuesday that Christmas programs across the district were being reviewed for possible modifications of religious references. That news had led people to protest outside school district offices for a second day Tuesday.
...
As superintendent of Johnson County Schools, I recognize the significance of Christmas and the traditions and beliefs associated with this holiday. Over the past few days, there have been several rumors indicating that there would be no Christmas plays this year at our elementary schools. I want to clarify that all programs will go on as scheduled. In accordance with federal laws, our programs will follow appropriate regulations. The U.S. Supreme Court and the 6th Circuit are very clear that public school staff may not endorse any religion when acting in their official capacities and during school activities. However, our district is fully committed to promote the spirit of giving and concern for our fellow citizens that help define the Christmas holiday. With core values such as service, integrity, leadership, and commitment, our staff and students will continue to proudly represent our district as recently demonstrated by our many student successes.
...
In the Charlie Brown play, the character Linus recites passages from the Bible: Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lying in the manger. And suddenly, there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying, glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, good will toward men.
http://www.kentucky.com/news/local/education/article49895325.html
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)And Happy Festivus to the rest of us.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)A crass orgy of gluttonous consumerism. It disgusts me.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)To Yoi otoshi wo!
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)I don't see the harm in having little kids believe in Santa Claus. I grew up an atheist - these days I'm a vocal critic of religion, especially Abrahamic ones - but some of my favorite memories from my childhood are when my grandmother dressed up as Santa and handed out presents Christmas morning. Yes, for a few years I really didn't realize it was my grandmother and I really thought it was Santa..
Then again, as much as I dislike religion, I also don't see the harm in wishing someone Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, or Eid Mubarak. Some people just need to lighten up.
Tanuki
(14,918 posts)a very, very old Christmas song, originally Gaelic, not heard so often but quite lovely:
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Corey_Baker08
(2,157 posts)Nac Mac Feegle
(971 posts)There are plenty records of festivals around the Winter Solstice in just about every culture.
It's a celebration of the transition from the days getting shorter to the days getting longer.
One particular religion trying to monopolize the event seems quite rudely self-centered. How does one deity "own" a universally regularly recurring astronomical event?
The celebration is an expression of hope; an acknowledgment that the 'worst' is over, and better things are coming.
Let's look for the hope, and celebrate.
Have a fabulous ChrismaHanaKwanzakah