Military Moms Breastfeeding in Uniform Stir Controversy

[cynatnite]

[IMG][/IMG]

At a time when breastfeeding in public is already controversial, pictures of two military moms doing so while wearing their uniforms is sparking outrage.

The photo is part of a local breastfeeding awareness campaign by Mom2Mom of Fairchild Air Force Base, a support group launched in January by Crystal Scott, a military spouse and mother of three. Among the intimate close-ups of smiling young mothers cuddling their adorable babies, the images of the two airmen stand out.

"People are comparing breastfeeding in uniform to urinating and defecating in uniform. They're comparing it to the woman who posed in "Playboy" in uniform [in 2007]" Scott told Yahoo! Shine in an interview. "We never expected it to be like this."

"I'm an X-ray tech and I breastfeed in my uniform all the time," Scott says. "Granted they're scrubs. But people do it all the time in their uniforms. If you have a hungry baby, why would you take the time to change completely?"

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/military-moms-breastfeeding-uniform-stir-controversey-214500503.html

[hlthe2b]

1. Stupid controversy...

My thought was one of great empathy for that mother of twins... Wow, that would have to take a lot out of you (no pun intended) to breast feed two. Hat's off to that Mom and kudos.

[CTyankee]

2. Beautiful women! I love this!

[southernyankeebelle]

3. I hate this picture. These women are in uniform. All soldiers are suppose to honor the

uniform. I don't mind the breastfeeding but do it in civilian cloths. I wouldn't like seeing a male soldier dressed with his shirt openned for a sex magazine either.

[cynatnite]

4. Breastfeeding is not about sex...

Besides, these soldiers are moms. They do not disrespect the uniform by breastfeeding their babies. It's a normal natural act that they should not be shamed for.

The shame is on those who condemn them for it.

[riderinthestorm]

25. FWIW, southernyankeebelle believes women should be segregated in the military, not in combat roles,

and should "quit" the service (as if that's even possible or desirable) if they become pregnant. In fairness, she also believes men who serve should also never have children either since having them means they're "distracted" from their duties and may not be effective soldiers. And its also a pain when they want to go home and spend time with their families for others who have to cover for them.

[southernyankeebelle]

37. Oh I am flattered you remember me. Of course your alittle off but that's ok. Your

entitled to your opinion and I am alright with that. Thanks for remembering. Only a true military vet would understand what I am trying to say. Really I don't hate women in the military at all. But your right how I feel about a single parent in the military. The military should always worry about the mission first. That is the real mission of the military. The only way that will happen is if we go back to the draft. I know many of you hate that idea. I am looking at it from a purely what the mission of the military is.

[cynatnite]

41. I am a vet and I find your thinking antiquated and offensive...

My husband and I both have children while we served. The military is more than a mission. It's a lifestyle and the military has in it's place a system designed for the entire family in order to support it which includes a significant portion of single parents. This is the military as it is and fortunately, it will never live to the expectations you think it should have.

[southernyankeebelle]

45. You then of all people know what the mission of the military always has been. I know it is not

what you want to hear but it is the truth. Believe me I have also seen working in the chaplains office how unprepared some soldiers are when time for deployment comes. Don't hate if I see things different from you.

[cynatnite]

52. I've got experience that trumps your opinion...

Soldiers start out unprepared, but are quickly prepared. We worked as a team for military readiness. The military is more than the mission. It's a lifestyle. It's a family with a large support system. It's not perfect, but it sure is nowhere near your misconceptions.

[southernyankeebelle]

64. Yes I know that. Your talking to a military brat. My dad retired from the Air Force after 22 yrs

My father-in-law retired after 24 yrs both Vets of WWII, Korea and VN and wounded. Plus my husband was in for 21 yrs and retired. I also worked for the military throughout my work experiences. Yes I am well affair of the lifestyle. I happened to love it very much. Before Desert Storm there was no family support system. I remember when my mother who could hardly speak a word of english. We travelled from PA all the way to Calf. by train back then and my 7 yr old brother interpreting for my mother. Getting on a military ship. My mother travelled across country with 4 little kids. My dad was already overseas in the Philippines at the time. Then we went on to Germany after that tour on a military plane. I wouldn't trade my life's experiences for anything. Now when my husband was in during the last big build up. My husband was a senior nco and I helped with the enlisted wives who didn't have a clue what was going on. Many of the young ladies were new to the military family. I made sure whoever needed me had my number. We met weekly and made sure everyone who needed help got it. I sure do know what its about. Believe me I do. I just see things differently. I remember growing up in the military life. I never knew anything else. I just remember times differently maybe then you do. It doesn't make me wrong. It doesn't make you wrong. Don't question my love of my country or my patriotism. I have both. You don't really know me. I remember a different time when things were different and in some respects better. I didn't wear the uniform but I remember at 6 yrs old and living on a base and the worry that they had us prepared to leave on a bus to get out of the country in the middle of the night. My mother sitting there with 4 little children. Telling our Filipino friend if anyone besides him come through that door use the long knife. No I travelled the world and would do it again over and over. Within my own family there is over 60 yrs of service. I am sure you served with honor and am not questioning your service.

[cynatnite]

73. Never once did I question you or your patriotism...NEVER...

I have no idea where you got that notion.

I'm not here to do battle on who has the most service, has the most family that's served or combine years or whatever. It has zero bearing on this discussion.

[southernyankeebelle]

76. Well I looked googled breastfeeding in the military. Evidently at this time there is no regulation.

So there it is. I was wrong for now. I am big enough to say it. But I don't change my feelings on the military and what the mission is.

[riderinthestorm]

47. Oh feel free to correct me about anything I've mis-remembered. Your positions ARE memorable

and I'm not so sure that's flattering but okay.

[southernyankeebelle]

49. Thank you again. I don't remember your comments. But I am finished for tonite. I think

I have made my point and you and others make yours. But like I said and no one here can dispute this THE MILITARY MISSION IS TO BE PREPARED FOR WAR. That is it. End of comments. You don't like it, fine. Peace

[obamanut2012]

159. You memory is correct

Because I remember the same thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

217. <----- vet here, even got shot at

And I happen to be female.

And no, I do not agree with you at all. Nor do a few other nations.

By the way, do kindly point to the front lines in modern warfare.

[cynatnite]

38. As a woman that has served, I find it more than antiquated...it's offensive. n/t

[obamanut2012]

158. I posted the same thing down thread

She believes the WACs, WAVES, etc, should be reinstated.

And, as I stated to her in that one thread, Jessica Lynch and her unit were non coms. Oh, and nurses have been killed and captured as POWs for decades.

[sarge43]

270. Oh hell, let's go all the way

Automatic pregnancy discharges. Glass ceiling on promotions and assignments. Back when, women officers were capped at O-5 and you could count on one the number of bases where women could be assign.
Whole corps and major air commands were off limits and of course sea duty. Career fields were strictly limited. When I started the long march in '62, only five were open to women -- comm, supply, admin, personnel, medics. Not exactly fast track. Just some of the official restrictions. The unofficial or gentlemen's agreements kind were twice as many and three times nastier.

Two things wrong here: Terrible waste of abilities and resources. Spend thousands, sometimes hundreds, training an individual, then boot her out because of a temporary medical deferment and a dependent (she's married by the way.) As noted in another thread, no service man was ever discharged because he had a temp med def or dependent children. I had a super high score in electronic area of the AQE. I would have been an excellent avionics spec, but no, "girls can't do that kind of work". Honest, that was the explanation.

Second, I wish I had a dollar, hell ten cents, for every time I heard variations on "You wimmins don't pull your weight. Us mens hava do the shit duties, remote assignments, sea duty, combat, blah, blah, blah." So, now we are and somebody is still pissed off.

Oh yeah, the draft -- simplistic non answer to a complex situation. And if someone out there thinks service women aren't necessary, fine. However, that means all of us, including the women members of the Nurse Corps and in case of another unpleasantness (there will be) we don't come back. We're out and we stay out.

Finally, if the sight of a woman nursing her child is upsetting, here's a radical thought, don't look.

[southernyankeebelle]

39. It is nothing personal. Gosh can't you people realize that. Think about the mission of the

military. Bring the damn draft back.

[cynatnite]

44. Apparently it must be for you considering your visceral reaction to soldiers breastfeeding...

The mission of the military and breastfeeding...neither have one thing to do with another.

They're not breastfeeding on duty or in combat. They're everyday moms who are raising awareness about moms in combat boots. We should not shame them for it. We should praise them.

[southernyankeebelle]

48. Ok it is your opinion. Fine. I disagree and I am not changing my mind. So let it go.

I am not questioning your service personally. I am speaking in general terms. sorry if your feelings are hurt.

[cynatnite]

63. This is not about feelings...this is about facts which you choose to ignore...

I'm not sure why and it's probably not that important. I'm just glad that yours is a minority opinion.

Soldiers will serve their country with their families, female soldiers will continue to breastfeed their babies, and the military will function contrary to your antiquated ideals.

[pnwmom]

71. "Bring the damn draft back." What does that have to do with anything?

Do you think draftees wouldn't want to nurse their babies?

[aquart]

125. I'd love to bring the draft back.

That would not affect breastfeeding unless you are frighteningly sexistly implying that would return our army to all male service?

[obamanut2012]

162. This poster does believe that

Including reinstating WACs, WAVEs, etc.

[obamanut2012]

161. The draft can go to hell

[jp11]

6. It isn't dishonoring the uniform nor does it have anything to do with sex.

[southernyankeebelle]

33. You may want to check the military regulations before you say anything. I wonder did they

get permission from the Protocol office?

[cynatnite]

46. If they're off duty, they don't need permission. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

50. You of all people should know a soldier is on duty 24/7 a day. You are owned by the military

until your tour is over, right?

[MissB]

54. I thought you were finished for tonight.

[cynatnite]

56. Of course, but off duty is still off duty...

That means women can breastfeed their babies, husbands go home to their families, some go on dates, etc. They still live their lives always knowing they can be called up 24/7. It's the life we lived for some years with our children.

You keep missing the reality of military life and are just too focused on the war aspect.

[southernyankeebelle]

67. You will never get it. Sorry. What do you think the purpose of the military is?

[cynatnite]

72. I lived it, dear...

You can scream that the military is a war machine to your heart's content, but it doesn't change the reality of military life. That's what you don't get and will never get unless you lived and breathed it.

My husband has been deployed to battle twice. He was a tank commander. I was a flight medic on blackhawk and huey helicopters. Our kids watched us prepare for bivouacs.

This is what you don't get.

[southernyankeebelle]

84. Thank you for your service. You still don't get it. So peace be with you and your family.

[pnwmom]

97. Close your eyes! You will surely be offended by this clip of a uniformed soldier

violating military regulations and engaging in a blatant and public display of affection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=7_ZVfnaAqaA

[obamanut2012]

167. Or this!!!

[pnwmom]

232. OMG! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

219. Hold it, you're telling somebody

Who actually served in uniform they don't get it? That is rich.

[pnwmom]

233. (self-delete)

[riderinthestorm]

89. Gosh, I guess your service wasn't on the REAL "getting it" list (whatever "it" is)

You somehow escaped that training during your service and don't "get it" per southernyankeebelle/

Sorry about that.... musta missed out on something big I guess.

[cynatnite]

96. I think I'm glad I did. n/t

[aquart]

126. A flight medic?

If that means what I'm imagining, I wish you all peace in your soul forever. And only good dreams.

[cynatnite]

154. That's been a little while ago...

Thanks for the good vibes

[aquart]

124. To defend and protect our citizens. Even the teeny tiny hungry ones.

Or can you only honor a uniform drenched in human blood?

[obamanut2012]

165. Not true -- you have off duty hours

Where you can wear civvies, go off base, etc. You are, basically, on-call 26/7.

Ridiculous.

[pnwmom]

70. Why don't you show us the military regulation that applies here? Because it doesn't exist.

From the OP:

According to Military Spouse Central, public displays of affection -- even something as innocuous as holding hands -- are not allowed while wearing a military uniform. Also forbidden while in uniform: eating, drinking, or talking on a cell phone while walking, carrying an umbrella that's not black, and (in some cases) smoking or even chewing gum. While there is no policy that addresses breastfeeding in uniform, Air Force spokesperson Captain Rose Richeson told MSNBC: "Airmen should be mindful of their dress and appearance and present a professional image at all times while in uniform."

To repeat: "there is no policy that addresses breastfeeding in uniform."

(And how many times have we seen a returning soldier in uniform engaged in a PDA? Who knew that it was against regulations?)

[cynatnite]

77. There is no military regulation pertaining to breastfeeding in uniform...

There is one about smoking, cell phones, and public displays of affection in uniform. You're not to do them. The military does make allowances for women to be able to breastfeed their babies. Some bring pumps to their jobs. If your child is in daycare close by, they could feasibly go to the daycare and breastfeed.

I think this was a statement to the world about moms in combat boots. Our oldest daughter was proud to say "My mommy wears combat boots" when I was active duty.

[pnwmom]

102. Thank you for your service, cynatnite -- a real sacrifice for any mother or father. n/t

[obamanut2012]

170. There isn't

I just called and asked someone whom I know that knows.

[obamanut2012]

164. I know for a fact they aren't breaking regs

There are also provisions in place for breastfeeding while on duty. This is 2012. Gays can openly serve and women can breastfeed... and don't have to wear hose and heels as their BU.

[pnwmom]

234. What???? They don't have to wear heels anymore?

What is the world coming to?

[obamanut2012]

241. I AM APPALLED!!!!!!

I bet there's a pair of Jimmy Choos cropped out of in this photo.

[pnwmom]

243. LOL. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

251. But, but, running in heels is so sexy

All the things I didn't do even twenty years ago...heels while on PT.

[Occulus]

7. I really don't have anything nice to say to that post.

Seriously.

At least, nothing that won't get me banned immediately.

[Starry Messenger]

9. Wow. Just wow.

I thought it was cool that soldiers are being shown as human beings with lives to protect and nurture. I wonder if there is the same level of public outcry when pictures come out of US military desecrating corpses.

[Texasgal]

10. Errr.. they are in their work clothes.

And really, what does sex have to do with feeding your baby?

[Dorian Gray]

13. WTF?

There's nothing sexual about breastfeeding.

[BattyDem]

14. Feeding your child in the most natural way possible - how does that dishonor the uniform?

There is nothing sexual or provocative about it. A child is being nourished.

I can't freakin' believe we're still having this discussion in 2012!! When is this country going to grow up?

[southernyankeebelle]

43. The problem here is we are mixing up 2 things. I have no problem with breastfeeding.

It isn't me that has a problem with their uniforms. Surely there are some Vets here that know about military regulations. I don't think they have changed much. You must wear the uniform properly. I still am wondering did they get permission from the military protocal office to pose for those pictures?

[BattyDem]

119. I didn't mix up anything.

I saw women feeding their children and thought nothing of it. You compared it to a man baring his chest in a sex magazine.

You say that it isn't you who has a problem with their uniforms, but in your original post, you said: "I hate this picture. These women are in uniform. All soldiers are suppose to honor the uniform. I don't mind the breastfeeding but do it in civilian cloths."

The link to the article in the OP clearly states that "there is no policy that addresses breastfeeding in uniform." The article also says that military moms are "encouraged to pump and bottle-feed their babies while they're in uniform." Encouraged, not required ... so it seems that the military does not want to go on record with a regulation that says a mother feeding her child while in uniform is improper. People may be uncomfortable with it, they may even be angry about it ... but I doubt the military would dare suggest that feeding a hungry child is dishonoring the uniform! The publicity from these photos may change that, but then it would be the military itself that is guilty of dishonoring the uniform by reducing every brave woman who has ever served to a pair of breasts.

[obamanut2012]

173. I just talked to a Lt. Colonel who is a protocol officer

This is someone I KNOW. There are no regs against this. Nor does the photo break any regs or protocol, although she doesn't know if they got advance permission for it. She stated that would have been wise, and she would have granted it.

[morningfog]

202. How would you suggest a female soldier, who you say is NEVER off-duty, and must wear the

uniform properly feed her baby who needs to eat every couple of hours???

[riderinthestorm]

224. Her suggestion is no women in the military. Or go back to the segregated times

like with WACS or WAVES. Or soldiers cannot have children. Period.

[morningfog]

16. Wow.

[elehhhhna]

18. how does feeding your infant "dishonor" your stupid outfit?

please.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

242. That's what I was wondering. Or, the converse: how does one "honor" a set of clothes?

.

[Iggo]

20. You think breast feeding is sexy, do ya?

[Logical]

22. Please delete your post. You sound like a fool? How is breastfeeding sexual?? n-t

[southernyankeebelle]

27. Last time I checked this forum is a discussion group. I think I have rights to say what I want.

You may not agree and your entitled. It is my personal opinion and I don't care what you or any others think. Sorry if your feelings are hurt. THIS IS A FREE SPEECH BLOG THE LAST TIME I CHECKED. I will keep my opinion. I will respect yours and anyoneelse opinion to disagree.

I didn't say any thing about it being a sexual thing. Being a woman I am not impressed that much about womens breast. I don't really care. I breastfead my child in private and I also made sure to have bottles of milk to take with me. I didn't feel a need to say look at me am feeding my child.

[Luminous Animal]

34. So, why did you make the analogy between women breast feeding and

a bare chested man in a sex magazine? And your opinion is open for rejection. We all get to exercise our right to disagree with your opinion. And not respect that opinion, too.

[southernyankeebelle]

42. I didn't even think of it that why. I guess that is where your mind is. I don't think

women breastfeeding is sexual. I did it and I sure didn't feel that way. Good lord. I was trying to make a comparsion. Maybe it was wrong one. Ok he could have a tee shirt on instead. Is that ok?

[Luminous Animal]

103. That's not where my mind is. You brought up sex. You, yourself, introduced sex.

Own it.

[Logical]

59. You sound like part of the problem. n-t

[cynatnite]

60. You're the one who compared it to a male soldier in a sex magazine....

You saw women in uniform with boobs and you freaked out.

[pnwmom]

100. You breastfed your child in private, which was your right. But women these days have every right

to breastfeed their babies in public.

And I applaud them for doing so.

[SunsetDreams]

23. *

[hlthe2b]

24. I imagine southernyankeebelle just needs to get used to seeing it...

(i.e., women in uniform breast feeding)--as do a lot of other people. Not trying to provide "cover" (no pun intended) for those who are really being inappropriate in their criticism, but just assume that some of it is simply the unexpected. For others it may make them uncomfortable if they equate historical advances women have made in the military with always having to try to deflect from the fact that they were female.

Having worked in the third world for much of my career, it is as natural and common place to see a woman breast feed as seeing a child crying for his mother. I hope it becomes that way in this country, eventually. It shouldn't be controversial. It just shouldn't be.

[southernyankeebelle]

31. I am use to seeing it. I did it myself with my own child a few years ago. I have

no problem with breastfeeding. When I did it I made sure I expressed my milk before I went out. I also worked going out and doing things around my child's schedule. When I new it was his nap time I didn't bring him out to spoil others enjoyments. Nothing is worse then people bringing babies to a movie and a child cries during a movie. I have seen that before. I just try to make adjustments for others feelings. My own mother had her first child at home with a midwife. She also breastfeed. By the way she breastfeed my twin sister and I. But she was modest like a majority of women.

But thank you anyway. One thing I find very difficult on DU is when people really don't agree with you they really can get hateful. I am surprised I haven't been sent to the jury yet. But I thank you for now because FREEDOM OF SPEECH is alive and well.

[hlthe2b]

32. I meant get used to seeing while in uniform. That's what I think may be giving some pause.

I imagine the first time a female police officer in uniform is photographed doing so, she might get some initial startled reactions...

The sooner we get over this, the better, IMO. But, I can understand it may take a little bit to get there. And, while I most definitely defend women's right to breast feed in public, I would have preferred more privacy myself, frankly. Even though I'm comfortable seeing it... Personal preference.

[pnwmom]

131. But we don't have to inflict our personal preferences on others, right? In fact, we shouldn't. n/t

[hlthe2b]

139. Mine was the first post upthread when this was posted... I think I made clear this was

a stupid controversy and subsequent posts where i made clear I've worked on public health throughout the world and this just isn't an issue and shouldn't be here. I just believe in giving some benefit of the doubt to the poster in question, whose discomfort was expressed.

[vanlassie]

51. So, why did you think you should express milk before going out?

[msanthrope]

66. You probably haven't been sent to the jury because no one wants to hide your posts.

And that, I respectfully suggest, is not because anyone agrees with you....

It's because no one wants to hide this trainwreck of a thread behind extraneous clicks....

You might want to self-delete.

[southernyankeebelle]

82. Ask me if I care what you think? Nope, I know every time we bring up this topic people

don't like what I say. That is fine. That's what make freedom of the blogs great. Your entitled to your opinion. So am I.

[msanthrope]

86. I am not disputing your right to your opinion...merely suggesting that it is

offensive, and phrased in a displeasing manner.

[pnwmom]

85. You were too uncomfortable to nurse in public, so you want everyone else to be, too.

Sorry, but most young women these days are over that now. Good for them. Their babies can be fed on their own schedule, as nature intended, with no bottles, suffocating blankets, or bathroom nursing sessions involved. And no home-confinement either.

[vanlassie]

91. And if some former breastfeeding in the closet moms

don't get and appreciate the contribution these lovely young and not-hung-up mothers are making to our country's long held immature and unhealthy attitudes about breastfeeding, it's a damn shame. I applaud and thank them.

[pnwmom]

93. Me, too! I'm proud of them for being braver than I was. n/t

[Dorian Gray]

137. Exactly!

I always BF in private because I was uncomfortable in public, myself, but I see women every day (here in Brooklyn) who are proud and unfazed by doing it in public. It affords them freedom of movement. Freedom that I restricted myself to when worried about BFing my little one in public.

I applaud these women for being brave and showing that there is nothing shameful in BFing. Perhaps it will help some women like me get over their issues. That's a positive!

[laundry_queen]

107. + a million. everything you said. nt

[MissB]

58. Try to avoid comparing breastfeeding to Playgirl magazines.

I'm shocked to learn that you breastfed. I'm not shocked to learn that you think it is something to coverup.

[southernyankeebelle]

65. Where did I say Playgirl? I never said anything like that. get over it.

[MissB]

75. "...male soldier....sex magazine...."

Keep going. Oh, wait, you said you were done for the night

[southernyankeebelle]

78. I wasn't thinking of that one. I was thinking of the Advocate. Which by the way is an

interesting magazine.

[pnwmom]

101. The Advocate? What does breastfeeding have to do with The Advocate? n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

191. Nothing. Just like Playgirl has nothing to do with breastfeeding. I was responding to someoneelse

comment. That's all.

[obamanut2012]

175. So breastfeeding is like a male soldier having a photograph in The Advocate

The Advocate is like Time Magazine. It is not a "sex magazine."

Why do you think a mainstream news magazine is a "male beefcake" magazine? Could you please explain your comment, which I find offensive?

[LeftyMom]

187. The Advocate is a "sex magazine" now?

[southernyankeebelle]

190. No, I was responding to someoneelse. The Advocate is a great magazine. I have

read it many times. But I have never seen a Playgirl magazine as someoneelse suggested.

[MissB]

229. So the Advocate is a sex magazine now?

Eh?

[pnwmom]

69. They ARE honoring their uniform.

Just as much as any military man shown holding a baby.

[FedUpWithIt All]

110. +++++++++ n/t

[Cave_Johnson]

105. I care less about the actual act...

... and more about the activism.

If for some reason they had their children at work and had to feed them, I wouldn't expect them to change. I would expect them to do it in private.

You want to go out and fight for your cause? Sweet.. go nuts...

Do it in civilian clothes...

[vanlassie]

106. Why? Would they have to "change" before

giving a bottle? And give it in private?

[Cave_Johnson]

134. The woman in the photo/OP

... said that it was unreasonable for her to change from her work uniform to civilian style clothes on an average day and I agree with her.

[pnwmom]

130. What's wrong with encouraging other military moms to breastfeed?

And why should military moms but not other moms be expected to nurse in private? Do you understand that women have the right to nurse wherever they want? That they don't have to be confined to ladies restrooms or their own homes anymore?

[Cave_Johnson]

135. It's a preference and professional thing for me...

I prefer in general that women do it in private or under cover but that is just me.

Professionally, there are lots of things that you can do in private that you don't do in public in military uniform. I believe this is one of them.

[Kingofalldems]

152. I think getting Limbaugh off of Armed Foces Radio

is much more important than this.

[ret5hd]

196. I am glad you never eat in public.

[riderinthestorm]

198. What is unprofessional about nursing a child?

Its a parent feeding their child. That is not unprofessional. You seem to have a hang-up about a normal biological function.

[pnwmom]

235. Your belief isn't the law, fortunately. And neither is your preference. n/t

[obamanut2012]

177. Why? They aren't breaking any regs

[stevenleser]

192. MIRT, cleanup in aisle 5. nt

[FedUpWithIt All]

109. Sigh.

[Zorra]

115. Myself, I hope the babies dribbled breast milk all over those uniforms.

That would really disgrace them, huh?

[MattBaggins]

199. Now if those uniforms were covered in blood

and the women were pissing on dead Iraqis.. That would be a giant huurrrahhh

[Zorra]

213. Exactly! And the 1% doesn't make money off breast milk,

like they do off blood.

[aquart]

122. A male soldier breastfeeding would fascinate me, however.

I know there was a pseudo anthropologist who wrote a book telling us all that women's breasts developed to attract males but you didn't believe that idiot, did you?

Good Lord.

[piratefish08]

144. breastfeeding = sex? wow.

[obamanut2012]

157. I wish you would stop posting these things about our female soldiers

And other military women. You do it in thread after thread. It is disrespectful to them. You have stated single mothers, divorced mothers, widowed mothers, and pregnant women who are active duty should be made to leave the military. And go on SNAP and welfare, I guess.

They are not disrespecting the uniform. In any way. Nor does breastfeeding have ANYTHING to do with sex or sexual imagery.

[snooper2]

166. LOL, the boobies the boobies

my eyes!

[LeftyMom]

183. Do bottlefeeding mothers have to change clothes to feed their babies?

This is WHAT TITS ARE FOR. If you look at a baby eating and see sex, something is wrong with you.

[obamanut2012]

186. Exactly!!!!!!

[Egalitarian Thug]

206. Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read. The list of absurd and perverse assumptions

and connotations you bring with this statement borders on the crazytown stuff one finds on the extreme right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

216. This is not sex, but a natural function

What you see is driven by American 19th century puritanical thought.

But serious, this is far from sexual.

[CBGLuthier]

238. try to grow up. the world needs adults

[backscatter712]

239. Oh my FSM! Pieces of cloth are being defiled! GIT A ROPE!!!

Seriously, are a few camo-colored pieces of cloth really worth so much that we have to create stupid taboos over them?

[spanone]

261. bwahahahahahaaa... now that's funny.

[LaurenG]

266. Really so you're ok if they get blown to bits in that uniform but

its dishonorable to feed their child wearing it?

[sarge43]

268. First of all, they are not soldiers; they're airmen.

Second, that picture is posed. In reality they nurse their babies in private

Third, at minimum they are in uniform at minimum 40 hours at week, more than not a lot longer. Do they change into civies every time kids need a full tank, then back into uniform or should kids go hungry?

Fourth, are you suggesting that using the latrine or a med exam or heavy fatigue duty when even Them What Be In Charge couldn't pass a class A inspection is out of uniform?

Fifth, interesting that you would equate flashing junk in a soft porn rag with nursing a baby.

Finally, there was a time in living memory when service women were summarily discharged for pregnancy, no exceptions. Fun fact, single (death, divorce, desertion) fathers were not. They were given all kinds of official and unofficial slack. Today 20% of the AD force is female as opposed to the bad old days when only 2% was. DoD can't afford to screw with that resource pool. If a rigid, hierarchical authoritarian institution can learn to cope, the rest of us should be able to do so.

[Nye Bevan]

5. People who compare breastfeeding to "urinating and defecating"?

I'm speechless. How do you even begin to argue with people like that?

[Occulus]

11. You were asking me for examples, earlier?

[Texasgal]

8. Oh good GAWD!

Here we go again!

This story makes me angry!

[Dorian Gray]

12. People are really offended by this?

WTF is wrong with them?

[FSogol]

15. Dammit. Now I have a new fetish.

[rug]

17. That's better than this.

[elehhhhna]

19. thank you. plus a million.

[FedUpWithIt All]

110. Absolutely...and it sickens me that this is hard for some to grasp.

Thank you for the clarity in your post.

[obamanut2012]

178. Well stated -- well done

[morningfog]

207. Gooddamnit, now I'm pissed off again.

[AJTheMan]

21. Not a big deal.

Moms have been breast feeding the children for thousands of years. It's perfectly natural. No controversy here. Move along.

[msongs]

26. personally Im not interested in seeing other people sucking on body parts, male or female nt

[MineralMan]

146. Look away, then.

You needn't watch, you know.

[obamanut2012]

179. These are nursing children

Not "other people sucking on body parts, male or female."

[pnwmom]

236. So? There are lots of legal activities I'm not personally interested in.

But I fight for other people's rights to engage in them.

[Honeycombe8]

28. Another excuse for a boob shot. So many boob shots in the media.

The point could be made without a boob shot, but of course, there's yet another reason to include a boob shot.

If it's not breast cancer, it's breast feeding, or cool cars, or yu name it.

[riderinthestorm]

30. This is about choosing to breastfeed which is eminently healthier for babies

Our culture discourages it, so putting breastfeeding out there as a viable alternative, even if you're working, even if you're a US soldier, is a vital message for the health of babies. The more we can counter American society's stigmatization of breastfeeding, the better.

This is not about boobs. Or sex.

[Honeycombe8]

40. Look at hte photo. It's a boob shot, plain & simple. Doesn't matter the reason.

Just another excuse for a boob shot.

How many penises do you see in ads about prostate cancer or vasectomies? Or bare butt shots in articles about colonoscopies? But you have an article or an ad that is even remotely related to boobs...and yay! A reason for another boob shot!

[riderinthestorm]

55. Nope. Its not and I'm sorry you can only see it that way.

I would respectfully advise you to re-consider your position and educate yourself about breastfeeding. Especially the prejudice and stigma attached to it in the US, which makes it harder for women to choose to take the healthiest option for their newborn.

ANYTHING we can do to encourage more moms to breastfeed would help American babies so much.

[blueamy66]

136. why not throw a blanket over the kids and boobs on the left?

she's gotta show her boobs????

so much a boob shot!

[Maine-ah]

140. perhaps you should try eating with your nose smooshed up against your plate

with a blanket over your head.

[PotatoChip]

171. Exactly Maine-ah.

I'd only add that if the poster you replied to has an issue with your suggestion, she could instead just eat her meal in some disgusting public bathroom. Preferably sitting on a toilet in one of the urine soaked stalls so we don't have to watch.

[polly7]

185. 1000 n/t.

[blueamy66]

248. well, I was adopted and never had the pleasure

nothing wrong with a blanket over a baby's head....nothing at all

[blueamy66]

257. ooooh, that's a good one

NOT

So you are saying that the babies are eating with their noses smooshed up against their plates.....doesn't sound good to me....

bad response Maine-ah

[Maine-ah]

262. ever breastfeed a baby?

[blueamy66]

264. nope, and don't want to

but I have alot of family that just couldn't do it....had to work

there is nothing wrong with putting a blanket over a baby's head and their mother's breast in public....absolutely nothing

[vanlassie]

145. Guess What Blueamy? Most of us see the babies and the lovely mommies.

What are YOU focused on? And why?

[blueamy66]

249. I am focused on the HUGE boobs on the left....

and I am sure most men are as well.

Go ahead....breastfeed your hearts out.....don't wanna see chicks' boobs in public....just like I don't wanna see mens' dicks in public.

I have 2 nieces and a nephew and 6 greats.....never have seen them breastfed....cause their parents did it in private.

How freaking hard is it to go somewhere private. It's all politics......

[vanlassie]

252. HUGE?? HUGE??? ARE YOU SERIOUS??

Listen. That mother does not have huge boobs. She has beautifully functional breasts, which are not that big, as if it matters, which it doesn't. The only time size matters is if a mother has breasts that require her to support or hold so that her baby can get latched on. The mom with those gorgeous twins is doing a beautiful of nursing both at once- not always easy, and she sure as shit doesn't need you judging the SIZE of her breasts. Not -boobs- she's not in a strip club- get a clue. However, there is another definition for the word "boob." As in- "Only a BOOB would say such a dumb thing about a mother feeding such darling twins."

[blueamy66]

256. Thanks, but I have a clue.

It was a photo op....settle down.

How can you tell the twins are gorgeous? You can't even see their faces, cause they are stuffed into boobs.

If she's gonna let someone take a photo to publicize, I can sure as shit judge the size of her boobs.

Are you name calling?

Take a chill pill.

[obamanut2012]

180. I'm a lesbian, and like women's breasts, and when I look at this photo

I don't see a so-called "boob shot." I don't think, "OOOOO! hawt! I wish that was me, come to mama, ladies!" I see two military women breastfeeding, and this is the first thought that popped into my mind, "Thank God I never had kids and had to do that."

I have no idea how anyone can look at breastfeeding women and see "boob shot" or any sexual imagery at all. It's mindblowing to me.

[stevenleser]

193. Yes, people are really saying something about themselves

Here are two women in service to our country, balancing that with rearing children, deciding on a more healthy way to feed their children that is perfectly natural. And what do some people see?

BOOBIES! BOOBIES! BOOBIES! BOOBIES! BOOBIES!

Like I said, sometimes, you unintentionally say things about yourself when you write.

[Honeycombe8]

253. Look at the picture. She's wearing a pushup bra or pushing the babies up against her boobs...

to make them high and grapefruit like. It's a typical boob shot, and totally unnecessary in any ad, much less a breastfeeding ad, which ironically is trying to make the point that boobs aren't being shown in public, since they're covered up. Well, I guess they're not covered up.

You need to educate yourself and start paying attention to the sexist ads that abound. You'll start to notice. There's a story on 60 minutes about breast cancer? Pay attention...there will most definitely be some woman, sooner or later, in that story who is naked from the waist up, being videotapes from the back or side. A story on prostate cancer or men getting colonoscopies? Don't hold your breath; you won't see a shot of a naked man being videotaped from the back or side while getting those tests or being examined. It's rampant.

Don't forget the way women are used in ads of all sorts, just because you like the ad's message. That doesn't excusse the sexist pictorial.

A boob shot is a boob shot. Look again. The woman on the left has her boobs almost fully showing, and worse, in an unnatural position, to catch your attention. Typical boob shot. If you really want to show boobs of a woman nursing, find one with the typical saggy boobs covered in stretch marks...that's reality. But that's not sexy. Doesn't make a good boob shot.

[seabeyond]

62. of course you are right honeycombe8

it happens often, whenever it can be gotten away with it. and still.... it is merely breastfeeding. the one woman didnt have much choice needing to feed two at a time, like the other woman.

but, with whatever they can, breast cancer or whatever, a boob to be had.

[appal_jack]

68. Offen-sensitivity much?

Last edited Wed May 30, 2012, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

What is your problem with a woman's breast being partially visible in a photo about breast feeding???

Breasts have two biological purposes. The first is of course to nourish the infants of our species. All female mammals use their breasts for this purpose: it is a fundamental aspect of mammalian phylogeny. The second evolutionarily-selected purpose of human female breasts is to attract the attention of men.

"Whatwhatwhat?!?" you say, as you hastily reach for the alert button. Just wait, and hear me out. Although all female mammals have breasts by which they suckle their young, most of these mammals' breasts swell only when the mothers are nursing. Before reproduction, and then also after the infant is weaned, most mammals' breasts shrink back to be similar to males' in size and shape. Humans are the only mammals I can name whose breasts stay swollen throughout adult life. Probably not coincidentally, we humans are also among the minority of mammals who can and do engage in sexual activity with such frequency.

Sexual selection is a fascinating aspect of evolutionary biology. It is reputed to have been the force that has kept horses getting faster and faster with each generation, long after they could outpace their predators. And, yes, it has worked on us humans as well.

So this photo draws upon the two purposes of human breasts. So what? There is nothing wrong with this photo, or with these women.

-app

[pnwmom]

81. It's a breastfeeding shot, plain and simple. No big deal except to prudes or perverts. n/t

[stevenleser]

200. Simple and to the point. Exactly and perfect. nt

[Jennicut]

141. No it is not. People are so hung up on seeing a naked breast that they make it sexual.

It wasn't a sexual picture. Breasts are for breastfeeding. They can also be seen as sexy. I don't see why seeing a woman breastfeeding is a "boob shot". I think some people are such prudes that they can't handle something natural like breastfeeding.

[snooper2]

169. you are over 60 correct?

[riderinthestorm]

29. Yay!! I love this! Long overdue! Bravo Ms Scott!

I think it's beyond ironic that they're negatively comparing women breastfeeding in uniform to urinating or defecating in uniform - as though no soldier has ever performed any of those actions (in uniform)! Its also interesting that these warriors are shown as being eminently human and nurturing, performing one of life's supremely "life-giving" acts even as they are trained to kill.

[Prometheus Bound]

35. This is in Afghanistan and the Taliban are upset, right?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

36. As I recall...

...there are standards for behavior when wearing the uniform in public. These ladies are not respecting that. Actions involving bodily fluids need to be handled in private. I also notice their hats are off.

[vanlassie]

74. What a disgusting statement

You must be kidding, I'm sure. Oh, and just checking...you do all your sneezing in "private" right?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

108. in an orderly, proficient, military manner

(when possible)

[pnwmom]

80. Read the article. There are no rules regarding breastfeeding. n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

110. I call your attention to...

...AFI 36-2903 section 2.13.3.

"Uniform items are to be zipped, snapped or buttoned unless otherwise defined in this instruction."

The instruction here is not about breastfeeding but about wearing the uniform. Unless said airmen has a written or verbal order to breastfeed, it is a personal function. If it can't be accomplished with the zippers, snaps and buttons in their correct configuration, it should be accomplished in private.

I'm not commenting on whether this allowances should be made or if the instruction should be changed. I'm just explaining it.

[pnwmom]

128. You can pull up a shirt without unbuttoning it. No problem. In fact,

the women in the picture clearly demonstrate that.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

149. The women in the picture...

...clearly have all of the buttons on the front of their ABU tops unbuttoned. I am unaware of any orders/permissions related to breastfeeding which may apply. In general, it is no more acceptable to roll up one's shirt than it would be roll down one's pants.

For background I will offer that until more recently it was not acceptable for serviceman to appear at a civilian eating establishment wearing ABU/BDUs. This is one of the origins of the fast food drive-thru lane.

The uniform is to be worn at the times designated and in the manner prescribed by the instruction I mentioned as well as others and as directed by the airman's chain of command. As I said, above, I'm not aware of any special allowances relating to breastfeeding and there may by allowances.

The military is generally inflexible regarding the appearance of its members. Regulations, standards and instructions published as well as the orders of superiors carry the force of article 92 of the UCMJ. Violations thereof can be the subject to a court martial. I, personally, have no problem with breastfeeding. I accept that my wife preferred not to breastfeed in public. I'm fine with women topless at the beach.

For expanded info see: < http://breastfeedingincombatboots.com/2012/05/forget-breastfeeding-publicwhat-about-uniform/ >

Please note in the link that the Air Force, while not endorsing the picture, gave permission for the pictures to be taken. It is always wise to clear up any interpretations of regulations and instructions prior to actions that could be a problem.

[obamanut2012]

182. As Is atted upthread, I aclled someone who does this for a living

Military protocol and regs. There is zero regs against breastfeeding, including expressing milk while on duty. Zero. None. No maybe how many regs you want to cut and paste.

ZERO.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

203. As I said...

...I did not represent there was anything against breastfeeding. My remark was specifically about the photo in the OP and the AFI. The link I shared included a statement that the photo was approved by the Air Force.

All I shared was my concern about what can be seen by others in the service as a case improper appearance. I'm relatively certain, based on your feedback and the Air Force's permission for the photo, that no breach of protocol would exist however I can't help but think that in cases where any deviation new to an individual is better verified ahead.

As I have also mentioned in this thread I have no problem whatever with breastfeeding.

[appal_jack]

218. But Olive Gardens don't have drive-through's!1!1!

For background I will offer that until more recently it was not acceptable for serviceman to appear at a civilian eating establishment wearing ABU/BDUs. This is one of the origins of the fast food drive-thru lane.

But Olive Gardens don't have drive-through's!1!1!

In all seriousness, I respect your greater knowledge of military regulations regarding the uniform. I am not a veteran, nor do I have any particular knowledge of these regs. But given the fact that:

(1) the military by definition and necessity is composed primarily of young adults (i.e- the primary reproductive ages of 18-45),

and

(2) one of the basic purposes of the military is to defend our nation so that individuals and families might pursue happiness, including children if they so choose; it seems important that allowances be made for the necessities of breastfeeding, as they have been made for other aspects of the intersections between military service and family life.

-app

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

226. Well true enough!

On duty or otherwise uniformed military folks wanting to eat at an Olive Garden can not if wearing utility clothing. As I read they are also restricted from using frequent flyer miles to upgrade cabin class while flying in uniform.

As for the "allowances" you find reasonable, I agree. My experience is out of date. The Air Force has uniform maternity clothing now. Having said that unless and until those allowances have been approved, all service members should comply with all regulations and orders as directed.

Further, if these allowances are lacking at the moment, I think it would be a fine and thoughtful exercise for all groups new parents and breastfeeding groups to address these ideas to Congress and to the Air Force Senior Staff most particularly:

- Deputy Chief of Staff of the Air Force for Manpower, Personnel and Services
- Secretary of the Air Force, Michael B. Donley and
- your particular Congressmen/women.

[pnwmom]

240. The fact that you aren't aware means little except you aren't aware.

And the fact that "in general" ruling up one's shirt may be unacceptable (although you cite no regulation for that belief) has no bearing on whether it's acceptable in this particular situation.

In fact, the women did have permission, as you know. Apparently their commander feels better about encouraging soldiers to publicly breastfeed than you do.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

246. Maybe if I used CAPITAL letters...

...and spray paint it 1 foot high. I have no issue with breastfeeding. If there is not already an allowance for this activity, I support a change to the current rules to provide for one. I have NUMEROUS times mentioned that my remark was based on the wearing of the uniform and NOT the act of breastfeeding.

Pardon me for being a bit sensitive about you not seeing and/or believing that I don't have an issue with breastfeeding but I don't. I am beginning to believe that you are looking to have some kind disagreement on that issue and want to make me to say that I am against public breastfeeding when I'm not.

I happen to love breasts whether or not they are feeding babies.

Bare 'em, share 'em or stare at 'em. It's all fine with me. It's the woman's decision.



Cheers

[obamanut2012]

181. Nope, no regs against breastfeeding, none

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

189. My remark...

...was not about breastfeeding. It was about wearing the uniform.

[riderinthestorm]

201. and body fluids. nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

221. My #189...

...was replying to obamanut2012's #181 which was addressing my #110 (which shares the number 110 with 2 other posts).

My #110 quoted here:

..AFI 36-2903 section 2.13.3.

"Uniform items are to be zipped, snapped or buttoned unless otherwise defined in this instruction."

The instruction here is not about breastfeeding but about wearing the uniform. Unless said airmen has a written or verbal order to breastfeed, it is a personal function. If it can't be accomplished with the zippers, snaps and buttons in their correct configuration, it should be accomplished in private.

I'm not commenting on whether this allowances should be made or if the instruction should be changed. I'm just explaining it.

This was the post I was referring to when I said in #189 that "My remark was not about breastfeeding. It was about wearing the uniform." I generally operate by referencing indirectly either my next up-thread post or by noting the # about which I'm writing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

244. The Soviets are still trying to steal our precious bodily fluids, you know.

Sorry for the off-topic post; the actual sentiment I want to convey is: I can't believe there's a 200+ post thread on something that shouldn't be controversial whatsoever. Well, yes I can, but it's disappointing.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

110. I call your attention to...

...AFI 36-2903 section 2.13.3.

"Uniform items are to be zipped, snapped or buttoned unless otherwise defined in this instruction."

The instruction here is not about breastfeeding but about wearing the uniform. Unless said airmen has a written or verbal order to breastfeed, it is a personal function. If it can't be accomplished with the zippers, snaps and buttons in their correct configuration, it should be accomplished in private.

I'm not commenting on whether this allowances should be made or if the instruction should be changed. I'm just explaining it.

[pnwmom]

129. No worries. T-shirts, as in the photo, don't have zippers, snaps, or buttons. And even

a shirt with buttons can simply be lifted up. In fact, that's what most nursing moms would do. Why fool with buttons when you don't have to?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

150. please see post #149

[riderinthestorm]

87. So soldiers crying are also a violation? Tears are a body fluid afterall.

Which body fluids are on the acceptable list and which are not? Tears okay, breast milk no?

Not trying to be mean, just an observation.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

114. see my post #110

ETA: apparently the my post #110 appears twice and a post from 'FedUpWithIt All' also is numbered 110. So repeated here to eliminate confusion:

From AFI 36-2903 section 2.13.3.

"Uniform items are to be zipped, snapped or buttoned unless otherwise defined in this instruction."

The instruction here is not about breastfeeding but about wearing the uniform. Unless said airmen has a written or verbal order to breastfeed, it is a personal function. If it can't be accomplished with the zippers, snaps and buttons in their correct configuration, it should be accomplished in private.

I'm not commenting on whether this allowances should be made or if the instruction should be changed. I'm just explaining it.

[pnwmom]

132. Breastfeeding can be accomplished by simply raising a shirt -- without unfastening anything.

[riderinthestorm]

194. Your post #36 distinctly mentioned bodily fluids being banned under the regs.

You keep avoiding addressing the body fluids part of your post and keep pointing to the regs but breastfeeding is in no way shape or form in those guidelines, not does it have to involve any zippers, buttons or snaps. Just lifting the shirt, or do soldiers' shirts never come untucked during the course of their day?

Are you comparing breastmilk to urine or feces? What about tears or a bloody nose? Sneezing? All of them are body fluids. Does a soldier have to take off their uniform if they're menstruating?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

215. Negative

I quote: "Actions involving bodily fluids need to be handled in private." This is and was my opinion. I did not mention any regulation in post #36.

Were I a woman, in the service and breastfeeding, I would verify that doing so in public was okay before I did so.

Aside from that, the photo clearly shows both moms with all buttons open on their ABU shirts. Part of the AFI I referenced also explains that those wearing the uniform have as a duty, setting a good example for others. That's why it's a good idea to know for sure before taking a chance on setting a bad example.

Comparing... I'm not comparing any fluid to any other. I'm not discussing earwax or pus from a blister. There are those personal functions that required partially undressing and, lacking information to the contrary, it is wise to be informed before acting.

[Zorra]

118. Yes! Yes! Disgusting! There are rules!!! ROOOLES!!!

Breasts! Body fluids!! And their hats ARE off! Off!

Disgraceful.

I totally agree with you, Discontent Irony Sarcasm.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

120. I wouldn't say disgusting.

I can certainly appreciate a nice breast but they are improperly wearing the uniform. That's against Air Force instructions.

[Zorra]

220. Hawkeye: "Whatever it is, Henry, it better be good."

Frank Burns: "He's out of uniform, as usual."

Hawkeye: "I tried sleeping in my uniform, Frank, but my medals keep stabbing me."

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

225. As I frequently say...

...it doesn't have to make sense, it's just a rule.

[pnwmom]

133. Milk is like blood, without the hemoglobin. When a soldier gets a bloody nose,

does he have to handle that bodily fluid in private? Does he have to withdraw somewhere every time he blows his nose?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

153. It's not about blowing your nose...

...it's about wearing the uniform in the manner directed while in public. When there are established rules, it's wise to follow them. When you have doubts, it's best to resolve them sooner rather than later.

[pnwmom]

231. No, it's about feeding a baby. Which is even more important than blowing your nose.

I don't think these women had any doubts to be resolved and I haven't read about any adverse consequences to their decision, have you? For all you know, their commander pre-approved the photo session.

All your concern might be misdirected.

What about all the countless PDA's on youtube videos of returning soldiers in uniform? All sorts of hugging, kissing, and even hand-holding -- IN UNIFORM. They're clearly violating regulations. Why aren't you equally concerned about them?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

245. The various PDAs you mention...

...are not the topic in this thread. The link I provide in one of my posts today said, and I mentioned in this thread specifically, that the photo was taken and published with Air Force permission. I am not the arbiter of all these things. My point was only that there is an acknowledged, published and detailed bit of data on the correct wearing of the uniform. I fully acknowledge the possibility of permission/direction to do otherwise.

I strongly suspect that their base commander or another superior authority had specifically approved this photo session. DoD also recognizes and gives a nod to somewhat more enthusiastic PDAs among individuals departing for or returning from a deployment than for those headed to the office.

Please don't misunderstand the basis for my original remark. It was not about the act of breastfeeding but about wearing the uniform.

Thanks for your patience.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

57. How old is this fucking country, 12? nt

[MissB]

61. Ha. I'm thinking 10.

Some folks have a whole lotta growing up to do.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

88. I guess I was feeling generous. nt

[Bonobo]

79. I find it disgusting too.

But for the opposite reason. Nurturing and making war are polar opposites.

Putting them side by side makes me feel ill.

[vanlassie]

83. Maybe we're on to something.

Make LOVE, NOT war!

[Bonobo]

90. Or maybe

War has become such an accepted part of the American way of life that ANYTHING can be mixed with it.

The new normal. At war for over 10 years, there are kinds of military age now who have no memory of a world without it.

Scary.

[vanlassie]

92. YEP. And the strident defense of "the mission"

Is disturbing.

[redgreenandblue]

123. Exactly my thoughts. The picture is creepy. Moreover

these women were obviously chosen for the photo based on their "features". No one can tell me that the intent of the photographer was not to add an additional pornographic layer to whatever point was supposedly being made.

I have no problem whatsoever with breast feeding in public, in restaurants or where ever else. But this picture is all kinds of weird.

[aikoaiko]

143. Oh, mamas are quite capable of being nurturing and violent in defense of loved ones

[redgreenandblue]

160. Except that America's wars usually destroy the lives of innocents and accomplish little more.

What this picture does is further the normalization of a state of perpetual aggressive war.

[aikoaiko]

163. I think this picture is the least of our worries concerning our war mongering.

[redgreenandblue]

168. True. I personally think women should breast feed whenever or whereever they want.

[avebury]

94. Women have a hard enough time being taken serious

as members of the military, this picture does not help the cause. I am a woman and acknowledge the right of each woman to make the personal choice to breastfeed her child/children. However, I get really irritated when a woman's actions end up making it difficult for all woman to be taken serious in an area where they are perceived to be in direct competition with men. We are experiencing a war against women in this country and that is a reality. Some women seem to want to wage a war over the right to breastfeed wherever and whenever they choose to which, unfortunately, can have the result of actually playing into the hands of those who want to hinder the rights of women to make choices that reside outside of historic female roles.

[pnwmom]

95. Do you feel the same way when you see a male soldier sweeping a child into his arms?

Or kissing his child?

In uniform -- a definite violation of the ban on PDA's!

[cynatnite]

98. I think this signifies a new generation of military...

We were in during late 80's and early 90's. The ratio of men were much greater and many regs were considerably different. It's a completely different world now with a new generation of service members who have much more technology at the ready. They are more modern and many are far more progressive than it ever has been in it's history.

My first deployment I was the only woman in my unit. It was tough because the men expected me to keep up with them. I had to work twice as hard to be accepted. Women had to tolerate sexual harassment, assaults and more. We didn't have the resources available to us that there is today. It's still tougher than hell on women even in today's military, but the roles of women have changed and the military is slowly beginning to come around a bit. We're getting more women in the upper echelons of command. We have more women generals.

This picture isn't just about popping out a breast at the drop of a hat. It's about moms in combat boots and how the military has changed. It serves as a wakeup call that women in today's military wear uniforms, go to war, and breastfeed.

Personally, I don't think this makes it more difficult. I think this empowers.

[vanlassie]

99. Exactly why would breastfeeding in uniform

cause someone NOT to " take seriously" a woman? Because they are not acting like men? Doing something frivolous? What??

[avebury]

147. I will tell you exactly why pictures like this

cause for women to not be taken seriously in the military. There are some jobs in the military that require a lot of taxpayer dollars for training - pilots for example. When deciding who qualifies for expensive job training (I have heard that pilots cost in the millions of dollars to train) you have to wonder what will the return on the investment be if you select a woman. There are some women who do qualify on their own merits to go toe to toe with men in the military but they end up being lumped in with all the other women in the military (including the two women in the picture).

We are living in a time when conservative Republicans are waging a war against women and posting pictures like the one posted above is just plain stupid and short sighted. While women have the right to choose to breast feed they forget that the consequences of their actions extend way beyond their own lives and plays into the hands of the conservative movement. Is it right that millions of other women and young girls end up paying for the consequences of the actions of a few selfish women? It does not help the women's fight to gain equality in the workforce, including equal pay.

[riderinthestorm]

195. Honestly, this post makes absolutely no sense to me. None.

You seem to be implying that the military shouldn't consider women equal as pilots ("you have to wonder what will the return on the investment be if you select a woman&quot .

Furthermore you seem to be indicating that lactating women can't be pilots or that no service members are ever excused to attend to personal needs which I know is false.

You also seem to be indicating that mothers are "selfish" for feeding their children?

The women in the pic are demonstrating that they are both lactating moms and soldiers, and that you can do both. They're sending the exact opposite message you seem to see - they're saying that they are as equal to the job (and pay and bennies etc) even as they are mothers too.

[dana_b]

211. breast feeding women can't be taken seriously?

Why would a woman who is breast feeding make them wonder about the "return on the investment"? I am not understanding why this is a problem. Women who are mothers are quite capable of handling multiple roles in their lives. We have been doing it for eons.

"Consequences of their actions" - there are now consequences for wanting to breast feed a child while being a soldier in the military or is it just that this picture is offensive to you or others? I am not understanding how it is that what they are doing is so selfish and detrimental to other women. I think they are just letting people know that there is nothing wrong with being a working mother in the military and that yes, they can do multiple tasks at once - including breastfeeding. I actually praise them for this. If people are offended at a "boob" shot (as someone above so eloquently said ) then they need to grow up.

[Nye Bevan]

104. So you don't think women should be allowed to breastfeed wherever they choose?

In what places do you think it is appropriate to ban women from breastfeeding?

[avebury]

142. I think that discretion is the order of day when it comes to breast feeding. The soldier

on the right was at least more discrete. The soldier on the left was more in your face about it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

212. Taken seriously.Writing and speaking skills are essential if you want to be taken seriously.

Irony...

[FedUpWithIt All]

116. Non-issue-and with enough exposure, no pun intended, it will be broadly regarded as such one day .

And that day cannot come soon enough. Man-kind has certainly been around long enough to finally grasp the concept of human mammary glands and their role in human infant nutrition.

[sarisataka]

117. Were these women under my command

as long as they had worked through the chain of command I would have no problem with their breast feeding or pumping.
That would give a prior continuing approval with understanding of of the troop and command made clear to each side.
The same standard I would apply to a male soldier who would need to attend to a medical necessity on a daily basis for an extended period of time. (that is about the closest analogy I can think of)

[vanlassie]

121. Well, Um... That's the thing.

It's NOT a medical issue. It's normal human nurturing. This requires "permission? ". Why?

[avebury]

174. How do you propose that the military person handle this

normal function if she is scheduled to participate in normal military maneuvers / exercises? Is she supposed to take off to find a place to pump or feed a child? Breast feeding might be a totally normal process but a woman can hardly expect to have the military accommodate this need at all times. You cannot always plan on wars being pre-scheduled and the military has to be ready to deploy at any time. If shit happens and the military needs to react you can hardly have a soldier/sailor/airman/whatever say "Excuse me but it is time to feed my child." It is just not realistic.

Just so you think that I am only siding with men, I also don't believe that a single father has any business being in the military if he does not have a guaranteed fallback for childcare if he has to deploy. I also believe that, if you have a married military couple, once children come along one of the parents should probably leave the military and I don't care which one it is. Fathers can be just as good as mothers at childcare. Parents are the ones 100% responsible for raising their children not the rest of us.

[vanlassie]

188. Sure but that is way off the subject

Which was whether the two women are dis honoring the uniform. However, read Breastfeeding In Combat Boots ...A Survival Guide to Successful Breastfeeding While Serving In the Military if you can't imagine how it might be handled. It is already being done quite well thanks to much advocacy. After all, our own children require humanitarian policies as much as the military tries to allow for the humanitarian protection of children in wartorn areas... (tongue only partially in cheek.)

[riderinthestorm]

197. You do realize these women aren't bringing their children to work right?

You seem to be implying they're simply dropping their responsibilities and breastfeeding. That's a pretty big slam to female soldiers who are certainly not doing that. They and the military have obviously figured out how to work around this since its already being done and your "concern" is moot.

Secondly, you don't get to decide how working parents get to raise their children, even military families. The people who sign up understand the requirements for childcare. The military and these families have worked all of this out obviously and nobody seems to be complaining (except for those with seriously antiquated notions).

Lastly, once you are in the military, you are in and can be recalled at any time. So you are basically agreeing with southernyankeebelle that no soldier should ever have children. You can't simply "leave". Furthermore, you can be recalled at any time.

[avebury]

222. While a person does not have the right to decide how working parents get to

raise their children, employers do have the right to determine who they hire and who they promote. Employees require an investment of time and money and in this employment market there are far more qualified people then available jobs. My boss has a stack of resumes and gets more all the time. It is a employers market not a job seeker's market. All choices ever made result in certain consequences, that is reality.

As to women in the military. If military exercises are scheduled to take place next week, is a military mother going to bring her baby along (highly doubtful). Is her commanding officer going to allow her the time and a place to pump breast milk? Will the military give a mother the means to properly store the breast milk until the exercise is over? What if a mother's unit gets called up overnight? I doubt the baby will be traveling with her. What means does the military provide her so that she can continue to pump breast milk, refrigerate it and ship it home to the baby? If a military mother really wants to stay in the military then there might actually be some circumstances where a baby will need to drink formula, I think it will survive. Because death is always a possibility for anybody in the military doesn't it make sense for a baby to be adjusted to both breast milk and formula. Should the first time the baby drink formula be after the death of its mother?

[riderinthestorm]

230. All of your questions are moot since the military has already figured out those answers

Women are already soldiers while being mothers, yes even breastfeeding mothers. I'm guessing you aren't in the military since you don't know that this is already going on (there are women who have been in the military on this very thread attesting to that fact as well if you don't believe me).

Death is a possibility for all women so your last question is also moot. Any mother can be killed anytime.

[sarisataka]

250. That is why there is a chain of command

A soldier/sailor/airman/marine of either gender may be excused from many routine duties to accommodate issues. Since a child is usually not a sudden issue, normally there will be several months warning, all of these issues can be worked out to everyone's benefit.
I served in several integrated units and it was fairly easy to deal with 'female issues'. Actually many of the females had less 'issues' than the males.

I do agree with you about deploying single parents. There are some allowances that take the matter into account but more for reserves and the National Guard. Hopefully the regulations and programs for single active duty parents will be expanded. Even during large deployments there is a number who will not deploy for administrative needs. The single parents are good candidates for these roles.

[sarisataka]

210. I chose medical issue

because that is the closest male analogy I can equate to breastfeeding. Obviously there is not a direct equal action.

It would require 'permission' just like a woman in a civilian career just cannot get up and leave at any time to breastfeed or pump. It does affect the workflow and immediate supervisors need to be aware.
By treating each gender equally (as much as possible given biological differences) it removes the issue of in or out of uniform. It is something that must be done, so it will be allowed to be done.

[redgreenandblue]

127. And the same women would call an airstrike on a house full of children

because there was one "suspected militant" in the area and book them as necessary collateral damage.

What is it with the need to "normalize" warfare into something that fits neatly into every day life? Creepy.

[stlsaxman]

138. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!!

(except for breast-feeding mothers)

[kickysnana]

148. Beautiful! In 1973 pregnant women were discharged or were sent for an abortion.

In Ft McCoy basic they were sent all the way to Walter Reed. They had counselors to talk women into abortions but the Walter Reed folks were much less compassionate. I was afraid for the one out of two women who made that choice in our unit. Another three chose to leave and have their babies.

One woman from very rural WV had been raped by her boyfriend days before she came in the Army and then he refused to acknowledge the pregnancy and her folks forbid her from coming home. Nobody at home wanted her to go into the military but she wanted something in life other than what was available where she lived. She did however choose to have the baby. One of the few decent things that happened in the WAACs while I was there was the asst officer in the unit called and made arrangements for the Red Cross to help her with relocating to a larger city in her home state and they were going to help her get a place to stay and a job and then help her with signing up for benefits for the delivery and time after birth. Aside: She spoke with a very iodiomzed dialect that sounded like British English but the phrasing was like old novels. When she got there nobody and I mean nobody but me could understand what she was saying. I translated so I was privy to a lot of behind the scenes things normal recruits never saw. That baby had an exceptional Mother and I have no doubt she made her way in this world just fine.

[Nye Bevan]

151. Fascinating to see the different ways DUers perceive this picture.

Some see "a boob shot, plain and simple".

Some see something analogous to a "sex magazine".

Some see an "action involving bodily fluids".

Some see "disrespect for the uniform".

Some see something that "plays into the hands of the conservative movement".

I see a mother feeding her children.

[Lars39]

156. I just want to offer them chairs so they'd be

more comfortable.

[Fumesucker]

205. The blind men and the boo.. err.. elephant..

Yes, people reveal much about themselves in how they react to a picture like the one in the OP..

[Egalitarian Thug]

214. And we wonder how this nation got into the dire straights in which we find ourselves...

I'm sure some of these responders are pre or barely pubescent boys, but that can't possibly account for all of them.

[stevenleser]

271. While true, I think many of those are one-offs. The VAST majority of DUers see it like you

a mother feeding her children.

[4th law of robotics]

155. I guess if it's against the uniform code then detractors have a point

I don't know the rules and I really don't care to research it.

I also don't see a problem with this personally.

[obamanut2012]

184. It isn't against regs in anyway

[Cairycat]

172. Would a picture of two mothers in uniform bottle feeding be disturbing?

Why or why not? Is it the idea of parents in uniform displaying nurturing behavior? Or is it the idea of breastfeeding? I'm inclined to think the latter. Many people who are defensive about bottle feeding are quick to say that human milk and formula are nearly equivalent, but a picture like this brings out their prejudices clearly.

[Hubert Flottz]

176. Atten-Hut!

I'm about ready to re-up!

[Tikki]

204. If Americans would actually travel anywhere...

This is a Non Issue...




Tikki

[FedUpWithIt All]

208. You all really want to get your knickers in a twist, google "Male lactation"

Men can breastfeed as well. Both genders have mammary glands and both are capable of producing milk to feed human young. The reason it happens readily in women is the hormone soup a woman experiences with childbirth. Men's bodies can create prolactin. It has been observed in indigenous men who's wives have died and the infant was put to the male's nipple to comfort. The nipple stimulation and oxytocin cause increased prolactin production leading to milk production. Prolactin is also increased in men who are suffering from starvation.

I wonder what the public response would be to that.

[treestar]

209. As long as they aren't at the Olive Garden, I have no problem whatsoever

Frankly people who get upset over breastfeeding strike me as overly delicate about natural processes.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

223. It's just a fucking boob people! We all sucked on them!

This puritanical bullshit is so annoying

[pnwmom]

237. No, alas, some people didn't get the chance. Maybe that's part of the problem?

[blueamy66]

258. I am not so proud of myself to think that you are writing about me.....

but, yeah, i didn't "have the chance".

You do a disservice to alll adoptive mothers when you post shit like that.

Wait, I have 6 great nieces/nephews....none were breastfed.....oh, the horror...the youngest is 8 months and weighs 30 lbs. Poor thing is starving and sick daily....NOT He's absolutely beautiful and healthy as a horse.

[pnwmom]

259. What I said obviously only applies to those who are disparaging public breastfeeding.

If you aren't one of them, then why are you concerned?

I was only breastfed for a few weeks and my husband wasn't at all. But we don't resent the babies that are being nursed, no matter where or how their mothers are accomplishing it.

[blueamy66]

260. just throw a blanket over the boob for cripe's sake

don't care about public breastfeeding....be discreet....but showing 2 big ass boobs for a publicity shot is just that - a publicity shot

[pnwmom]

263. Sorry, but that's against uniform regulations! And besides, it's suffocating to eat under a blanket.

I used to try that with my babies, because I was more insecure than these women, but my babies made their displeasure clear.

And what could possibly be wrong about a publicity shot -- approved by the women's commander -- that encourages a healthy practice like breastfeeding?

[blueamy66]

265. whatever....I don't get you and you don't get me

Why can the woman on the right do it discreetly but the one on the left has to show her big ass boobs?

Oh, maybe cause she is the hot blonde....

I'm done.....gonna take my poor 3 great nieces, who were bottle fed, to the park now.....hope they survive, well, cause they only got to have formula

[pnwmom]

267. Why the difference? Because with twins you can't easily arrange their bodies to cover everything up.

Think about it. The bodies would overlap if you tried to feed them the way the other mother is doing.

You sure are defensive about formula. Breast milk is clearly the best, and strongly recommended by the AMA and the WHO, but there are babies, such as your great nieces, who benefit from formula. Nobody is criticizing you or their mother for that choice.

[blueamy66]

269. Yeah, like she has to feed them both at the same time

IT'S A PHOTO OP!!!!!

I'm not defensive about either....just defensive about people who say that infants that are formula fed do not thrive....and I don't wanna see a chick's boob in public

[skip fox]

227. Repugs want everyone (everyone!) off the government teat!

[obamanut2012]

228. lol

Well played!

[daaron]

247. I find it odd and somewhat disturbing -->

how many DUers appear to fetishize the military in a manner little different from our country-people on the other side of the aisle. Really? The military is a "lifestyle"? REALLY?!?

Excuse my French, but poopy that. Does anyone remember the hubbub about the Spotted Owl VS. Loggers in the Pacific Northwest? How important is it that we continue to have "jobs" in the military? How dedicated are all y'all libs and progs and proles to peace? How many of you are anti-war? How many of you would be delighted if we suddenly found ourselves with no war to fight and we had to shit-can all the soldier-boys and soldier-girls?

I for one cannot wait for the day when we have no soldiers, male, female, straight, gay, believer or atheist, in any foxholes anywhere. I mean it. I can't wait. I'm not going to wait, and I'm not going to feign respect for the 'brave men and women' whose job-security is bound up with mass murder.

[DCKit]

254. Not around me they don't. Just try it MFers. nt

[NCTraveler]

255. k