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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRattled and shaken after seeing open carry in a grocery store
It's been a long time since I've been to DU, but I needed a place to talk about something that happened tonight when I was getting a few items to finish out our Christmas dinner.
My area recently got a new Walmart Neighborhood Market. I know many here aren't fans of Walmart as a whole for understandable reasons. I remained a shopper nonetheless.
That all changed as of a few minutes ago.
While I was shopping I passed by a gentleman in the store and happened to glance down. He had a handgun strapped to his belt. He was not a police officer. I know what those holsters look like and this had elastic bands. Not only that, the man was extremely overweight and he wasn't wearing anything to signify he was any part of law enforcement.
The further I got from him, the more upset I got. I brought my grandchildren to the store. I spoke with a young woman who said she was a manager. She shrugged off my concerns as if it was nothing. I decided to not finish the shopping and went to check out. The cashier saw how upset I was and I told her about it. She wanted to know what the man looked like because it upset her as well. As I was leaving, she spoke to another person who looked more like a manager than the young woman from before.
I got to my car and I was pretty near crying. I came home and called corporate about this only to find out they have practically zero policy when it comes to open carry. I was still pretty upset on the phone with the woman I spoke with. She said she was sending my concerns up to the higher ups which I doubt will do any good.
We're in the South and have been here for a while now. As conservative, rebel flag waving and Obama hating as they get around here, I've never seen anyone blatantly open carry like this before. My sister is like that and she has enough common sense not to do something like this.
I'm an Army veteran. I've been around guns for much of my life. My husband is a hunter. We have a hunting rifle in the house. I'm not a woman that rattles easy, but this shook me to my core and I'm still quite upset.
All I can think of is my grandchildren and all the shootings that are now so common. I just can't bring myself to take my grandchildren to any Walmart store knowing they allow this.
Anyway, I've been gone quite a while and I could use some hand-holding or something right now. This shook me more than I ever imagined it would.
Thanks
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gwheezie
(3,580 posts)I avoid gun toting open carry loons because inspite of what some people think there is no way to spot a good guy with a gun unless they start shooting.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)Response to gwheezie (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Kingofalldems
(40,264 posts)
uppityperson
(116,017 posts)
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)When a person is carrying a gun, to me that says they do not trust me as a fellow human not to harm them. Either that or they somehow want to project dominance over me.
Either one is not good.
I have lots of guns and like to hunt but most places we go we are SAFE. When you carry a gun in those places then you send a message about how you view all of us you are mixing with. It's a message that makes me think less of the carrier.
I personally would rather see people carry concealed because I like to like people and at least that way I don't know how they feel about the rest of us.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
lame54
(39,716 posts)That's a pretty weak one
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I have no idea if that is a sane reasonable person carrying that gun. I have grandchildren. Should I trust that because someone is legal to open carry, they're an automatic good guy?
Would you wonder if your children or grandchildren, in my case, are safe from someone who has a gun and openly flaunts it?
When it comes to the safety and care of my grandchildren, I don't think it's a weak reason at all. Far from it, IMO.
lame54
(39,716 posts)I'm not gonna cross them off my list
Walmart is such a scuzzy organization that your decision to not give them your money should have been made long ago
niyad
(132,223 posts)not have other options.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)This is why open carry will become far more common in the near future (because valid fears of random scumbags and idiots with guns are mocked). It's very easy to sit back from a self proclaimed morally superior stance and say "Well, I don't shop there." Walmart, for all of it's evil and flaws though, remains one of the cheapest places (particularly in a lot of more rural areas, that don't necessarily have access to malls, or other big stores) to buy things. For instance, 100 bucks at my local grocery store buys you a few bags worth of food and supplies - at Walmart, you can fill a cart if you're conservative. Maybe it's different in other parts of the Country, maybe there are places where you can still go to a grocery store and stock up on food as you could at a Walmart for similar cash... but not where I live.
Yes, it's a scuzzy operation, but looking down your nose at someone with some pretty valid concerns just strikes me as a rather petty thing to do - unless, of course, your argument is in favor of open carry, in which case, you should say so.
I'm not gonna cross them (Walmart) off my list because I'm too damn broke to consider doing that, but I can certainly understand a parent, or grandparent's fear of random people walking around the shopping aisles with guns in their belts. Perhaps in the future every idiot will be able to carry a gun wherever they please, in which case, we will certainly see the lie put to the "good guy with a gun" scenario.
It is one thing for security, police, or military to carry weapons. It's something very different when you have untrained, ignorant rednecks walking around with guns that they just barely manage to avoid shooting themselves in the feet with. Particularly given the current atmosphere in this Country... no, those guns make me nervous too.
lame54
(39,716 posts)That's the longest justification I've gotten
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)You should see some of my essays from college.
In summary though, I think the point is pretty valid. You can spend 5 bucks for a gallon of milk, or you can spend 3. You can spend 100 dollars for weekly groceries, or you can spend 3-500 and get basically the same items (with different brand names, maybe some fancier packaging, maybe some organic stuff if you go more towards 5). Plenty of young people up here, fresh out of high school, can't pay rent without working two jobs, so even a few dollars difference in price makes a pretty big difference for them. They don't need idiots with guns walking around Walmart scaring them and their kids. If Walmart is going to permit open carry, they ought to have well trained, well armed security - which we both know isn't going to happen. If you consider all the school shootings, the murders, the current atmosphere in the streets of our cities... open carry is an extremely bad idea for this populace.
I'm not saying Walmart is necessary, but cheaper goods definitely are for a whole lot of us.
tblue37
(68,423 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 22, 2015, 10:42 PM - Edit history (1)
reasons. They are not scared--they are deliberately trying to intimidate other people. It is a swaggering, d**k swinging dominance display. Ironically, most people who have to display dominance this way do so because they don't *feel* dominant. They feel helpess and beat down by the modern world, its social and political changes, and its economy. That is also why Trump's bullying bluster appeals to them.
enough
(13,755 posts)I agree it must come from a sense of helplessness and feeling beat down.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)“Hey, I’m attracting glances like I’m a movie star” “Man this is cool shit”..
Duppers
(28,469 posts)
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)I think there' a lot of truth there.
Orrex
(67,084 posts)Otherwise, spot on!
mindem
(1,580 posts)you can get in trouble for open dick, more trouble than with a gun. And how do you tell a good guy with a dick form a bad guy with a dick.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)But hey, if there are those who prefer the shallow end of the discussion pool, that's their call to make. I just don't feel the slightest need to pay attention to them.
Orrex
(67,084 posts)But when all of their arguments begin and end with "you ain't taking my guns," they reveal that they're simply playing dress-up, and they're using their guns as props to this effect. They invariably insist that gun/penis jokes are juvenile, but when the gun apologist is preaching rhetorical morality from atop millions of guns and thousands of corpses, the apologist lacks credibility.
So go ahead and attempt to dismiss the long-established and quite effective gun:penis imagery if it offends you. Your delicate sensibilities do not take precedence, nor must they be afforded some special protected status.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)
That said, I dismiss the "you ain't taking my guns" crowd as being the same sort of juvenile-minded non-contributors as I do the gun:penis kiddies.
Orrex
(67,084 posts)You can mock it if you like, but that simply means you don't have an effective way to respond to it.
And you can dismiss it if you like, but it's just about 100% guaranteed to get the gun apologists' attention, as it did yours, so your attention proves that it's effective.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)In actually having a productive, useful conversation on the matter of gun violence and regulation? Counterproductive and pitiful. Effective in dragging the conversation onto the grade school playground and trolling successfully? Yeah, works a treat.
Oh, and believe me, I have "effective" ways to respond to it, were I to wish to respond in kind...trust me, hoplophobes are easy targets for similar sorts of half-assed pseudo-Freudian bullshit. But why descend to that level?
Orrex
(67,084 posts)It also serves to mock the morally and intellectually bankrupt notion that guns are needed now in the way that they were arguably needed in the 18th century, especially when many gun apologists will reply with something to the effect of "we need them even more today."
Forgive me if I don't care to coddle the sensibilities of gun apologists nor their delusions of reasoned argument. I've been down this road many, many times over the decades, and it is clear that gun apologists do not change their views in the face of reality. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of needlessly dead victims don't convince gun apologists that maybe "gun rights" aren't paramount, so I don't care if they squawk about penis jokes.
Further, since I am not afraid of firearms, Colonel Cooper's attempted insult means nothing to me. Further, I'm surprised that you'd latch onto that made-up word, since you pretend to value only the highest principles of intellectual discourse.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...since not only is any adoption of that vacuous association by a few pro-gun persons irrelevant, I don't do it, so no relationship to my assertions is present. All aboard the Disjunct Express.
"Hoplophobe" is not a term I'd use in any sort of serious conversation of gun issues. It was (obviously) used in this case because it's the direct counterexample to infantile gun:penis inanities. That is, the exact same sort of transparent attempt to deflect the conversation onto an irrelevant tangent by way of an argumentum ad hominem fallacy. And it worked, I'm not surprised to note...
I might mention that like you pointing out that your lack of fear of guns "hoplophobe" means can't insult you, I'm immune to "tiny penis" remarks because I'm not so equipped. XX here...
To repeat an earlier statement, anyone's free to make gun:penis remarks all they like. I will from that point onward simply assume a lack of ability to contribute at the adult table.
Orrex
(67,084 posts)That kind of fallacious thinking boils down to "because it doesn't apply to all, it applies to none," and it would be equivalent to saying "because some gun owners act safely and responsibly with their precious guns, no gun owners act unsafely or irresponsibly with their guns."
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I'd mirror your "nice try," but it wasn't, really...
Nor did I make any such claim. Its "effectiveness" was dealt with separately. You really shouldn't lecture me on logical fallacies and similar points of philosophy. You don't seem all that good at it, and I do it for a living. Seriously.
I think we're done here. We're increasingly talking past each other. You have a wonderful New Year (genuinely meant...).
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I should ask her about her dick-swinging ways. I was previously unaware. Thank you for this useful information.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)
Rex
(65,616 posts)Why does she feel threatened enough to carry a deathstick?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Orrex
(67,084 posts)It boils down to "because I can cite some percentage of gun owners who aren't using guns to compensate for small penises, the gun:dick comparison cannot work for anyone."
You could as readily argue that because one gun owner does not engage in reckless behavior with a gun, then no gun owners engage in reckless behavior with guns.
If your wife is a safe and responsible gun owner who's not compensating for some imagined shortcoming, then bully for her; the metaphor doesn't apply to her.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Do we discuss issues here, or just sling approved sexist comments?
Orrex
(67,084 posts)they've discovered that gun apologists in general are not interested in discussing the issue objectively, and it's only a matter of moments before some term like "gun grabber" is flung into the discussion.
Realizing that the apologists have steeled themselves against discussion, it becomes worthwhile instead to mock the silliness of the hyper-macho gun apologist's thinking. Even if it doesn't persuade the apologist, it can still demonstrate the absurdity of the mindset.
Beyond that, it's not up to the target of satire to approve or reject satire. If it makes gun apologists uncomfortable--and it clearly does, as we've seen again and again and again--then maybe it's working as intended.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Motorcycle manufacturers as well. They pull the same shit, and the response is, and should be the same. It's advertising behavior that should be dissuaded, not encouraged.
I see few, if any 'hyper-macho gun apologists' here, yet members of DU are referred to with the same gun=penis bullshit.
It's gotten old. I say 'approved sexism' because juries, for the most part, won't act on it. (Not always, but for the most part.)
villager
(26,001 posts)Hitting them in the pocket books -- if enough people come to their senses in this regard -- will be the only thing that actually matters to them.
Maraya1969
(23,494 posts)I'll get smacked for this one but "less low class" stores. Why put up with this crap from Walmart?
The whole laissez faire attitude toward people playing cowboy with guns kind of plays along with the entire Walmart motif.
I can't see the Walmart family being concerned more than .01% about the well being of Walmart customers.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)but I have that luxury.
That said, I will not shop anywhere that admits any random person who carries or brandishes a firearm.
Generic Other
(29,080 posts)because I open carry cash and can just as easily carry it next door. That is the message these stores need to hear.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)lame54
(39,716 posts)There are so many reasons to NOT shop there
It should have been decided long ago and should not have taken this armed moron to bring them to that conclusion
Vinca
(53,946 posts)I would also make a point of telling whoever is in charge that it would be the last time my dollars were spent in their store because I feared for my safety. This happened at our local hardware store and the open carry guy made a stink when they invited him to leave. There's now a "no guns allowed" sign on the door. I really don't get it. Are artichokes and onions so threatening a person must go grocery shopping ready to open fire on any holiday-shopping grandma who makes a wrong move?
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)No, but you've got to watch out for those tomatoes. They can be rotten. 
Vinca
(53,946 posts)I think they're terrorist tomatoes.
Vinca
(53,946 posts)
cynatnite
(31,011 posts) tblue37
(68,423 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)there!
INCOMING!
(And smelly too)
csziggy
(34,189 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)
How could I have missed that?!
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Which has the bonus of the great credits.
And here is the entire movie:
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Drop a letter in the mail to the Wal-Mart, noting the time, date and every other detail you can remember of the incident. Explain that you have historically shopped at the store, but his incident has you so shaken that you're unlikely to shop there anymore, and that you'll tell your friends and relatives to think twice before going to that store.
You don't have to be judgmental, talk only about your own feelings and impressions, and be sure to hit the point that this is likely going to cost the store money (which is a language they are very fluent in).
Brainstormy
(2,539 posts)azureblue
(2,726 posts)these OC guys are oblivious to their surroundings and the people walking around him. I watched one (fat ass guy) with a hip holster, and noticed how easy it would be to whack him hard in the head from behind, and take his gun from him. The guys with a rifle on a strap - it would be even easier to come up behind them, yank them to the ground by the strap and stomp them, then take the firearm.
The common denominator with OC nuts is they think they are invincible with their gun, that their gun will protect them from harm. And that is the farthest from the truth. When you put that much confidence in any weapon, when you make your entire self defense rest on a weapon, you make yourself vulnerable and dangerous to yourself.
The truth is, if your attacker is 20 feet away from you and charging, you do not have time to draw your weapon. Close quarters combat is a scary thing, no matter what weapon you have,because there are so many other factors that can negate the advantage of a firearm. And more truth, very few OC have enough training to be steady and cool under attack and have the ability to hit an erratically moving target. They are all Walter Mittys with dangerous toys.
Vinca
(53,946 posts)I've never understood the "arm everybody" plan because it wouldn't work. Bad guys don't send an announcement about when and where they will shoot people and unless you're locked, loaded and aimed at the door at the correct time, you're a sitting duck like every unarmed person.
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)I've had enough martial arts training to make someone have a bad day.
One thing I learnt was how to disarm someone with either a handgun or a rifle if need be...and make it hurt.
katmondoo
(6,524 posts)I only buy a few things in Walmart that are not available elsewhere, I will avoid shopping there entirely in support of you.
SCantiGOP
(14,715 posts)I used to drive an extra mile to shop at a Kroger. There was a letter in the paper similar to the OP about someone seeing a guy with a rifle over his shoulder in a Kroger. The newspaper asked them and their mealy-mouthed response was that they followed whatever the laws were in each state or locality.
I wrote Kroger saying they could post a "no weapons" sign and I wouldn't shop there again otherwise, but I got the same response the paper did.
I have not been back.
As Jon Stewart pointed out some time ago: What happens when Open Carry meets Stand Your Ground?
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)Since when does Florida allow open carry?
whopis01
(3,919 posts)Florida is one of 5 states that do not allow open carry.
(5 as of January 1st, 2016 - Texas currently doesn't allow it either, but that changes with the new year)
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)
lpbk2713
(43,271 posts)
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)This just begs for "trouble"....or worse yet "tragedy". Anerica's approach to guns is precisely "insane".
deathrind
(1,786 posts)A friend who used to be an instructor would tell people right off the bat that by choosing to carry a firearm you have just dramatically increased your odds of being in a fire fight...
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)there are folks out there, like that Zimmerman guy, who carry guns and are mentally unstable enough to be just looking for an opportunity or excuse to use that weapon in deadly force. Rambo types that like to pretend that they are some authority figure because they carry a weapon.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)There are those who envision being the "hero" and those who feel a sense of self importance because of the .45 on their side.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)If I were a deranged idiot out kill a lot of people I would not open carry, and my first target would be someone I see with a gun, it is an idiotic idea to open carry like that...there is no realistic reason to do so except as someone stated to attempt to draw attention and scare people...
mountain grammy
(29,009 posts)carrying a rifle. Neighbors were alarmed and a couple called 911, but were told open carry was legal. Then the guy started killing. He killed three people. So, the moral of this story is, a deranged idiot will open carry, and will kill, and nobody will stop him until he does.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29059452/colorado-springs-police-confronted-shot-gunman-minutes
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)I personally think that anyone that open carries is nuts by definition... If you want to carry a firearm for personal protection almost every state has a way to get a concealed carry license most are called "Must Issue" in other words if you qualify they must issue a license, in some states it is "May Issue" which means they do not have to do that if they choose not to and do not have to have a reason...some states, Arizona, Alaska and I believe Connecticut you do not need a license to concealed carry... California is a hard state to get concealed license but some areas allow open carry.. the whole idea behind concealed carry is just that CONCEALED, no reason on earth to scare people like that except an ego trip...
Locrian
(4,523 posts)open carry is a power trip. there is no good reason vs concealed other than to intimidate.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)Yes- the open carry would represent the greatest pushback so that person would be job 1.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)logical decisions along the way to your killing spree, huh?
I don't think so. The open carry is, as you say, an attempt to scare people. Public-space massacres have the same aim. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I've yet to see any evidence of any of those sprees carried out by someone open-carrying on the way to their attacks.
Which is odd, yes?
(I couldn't find any evidence of it, if you do, that's cool, I'll read it.)
Squinch
(59,450 posts)to an attack, until that time that I did.
Or I never saw evidence of a guy shooting up a bunch of 6 year olds, till I did.
Are you saying that open carry means an attack won't happen because openly carried guns haven't been used in the past? Because, as I say, the two are not likely to be mutually exclusive.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I think open and concealed carry are largely irrelevant to the issue.
(Edit: Naval Shipyard shooter used a duffel bag. Colorado theater shooter used a fire door, and a box in the back of his car, sandy hook, the asshole started shooting as soon as he saw people as he approached the school, etc.)
People planning an attack are uninterested in complying with lawful carry laws.
People who carry out and about legally are rarely in a position to oppose such shooters, if for no other reason than there are so incredibly few of them. (There's a couple examples, but statistically negligible)
It would be interesting if there was a case where someone planned an attack, was seen armed, and ignored, when a simple call to the police could have halted the whole thing.
It would also be interesting to see an example where someone just flat out called the cops when seeing someone with a gun, and that too prevented an attack.
But I see the two issues as largely un-connected.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)some other point than the one I am making.
But I am interested in your comment that it would be interesting to see if there was a case where someone was seen armed when a phone call could have stopped a massacre.
How would anyone know, given the fact that open carry is now such a fashion among the ridiculous, what the intentions of the carrier were?
Personally I don't trust any of these "responsible gun owners" and I would - and will - vacate any areas where I see these imbeciles who need to display their toys in places where the public congregates.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)but... I would think there would be some evidence by now.
I've yet to see a case of 'I saw that guy, but I thought it was normal, and ignored it'... Haven't seen it. Not even once. Odd, yes?
Squinch
(59,450 posts)till that time when we did.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)But of course, I meant recognizing someone like Adam Lanza, after the shooting from some point in time he was observed before arriving at the school. Walking down the street, getting gas at a gas station, etc.
Like more people recalled details they hadn't connected at the DC Sniper shootings, once people stopped looking for a guy in a white box truck/panel van and realized it was a blue monte carlo.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)recognizable as being about to commit a massacre as if there are none, and then you give one.
You seem to be making some point because you keep saying, "Odd, isn't it?" But I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)(The DC Snipers didn't open carry, and get ignored, later to have people recall they saw them and didn't report it. People didn't notice them at all, because they were looking for the wrong thing.)
Lanza leaves his house. Proceeds to school. Let's presume he's walking and armed, but carrying.... 'casually', OC like, and not an apparent threat. Someone sees him, dismisses him as not a threat. Later sees his picture on the news, after he commits horrifying murders. Person regrets not calling it in, because at the time it seemed 'normal' and not threatening.
Does that happen?
One person upthread found an incident where someone's judgement perceived a threat, and called it in and the police did not respond because there was no apparent crime, until the guy started killing people in the street. So that example is pretty good. Extremely rare though.
What I am getting at is, how often does Open Carry actually enable the commission of, or amplify the damage of one of these murderous sociopaths. It doesn't seem terribly often. Arizona is an open carry state, border to border. Totally normal. (And a shitload of actual wilderness, so kinda useful) Jared Lougnher didn't expose his firearm until he attacked Gabby Giffords and the crowd. Why? (I thought that fact spoke to premeditation and competence to stand trial, because he knew something about his behavior was wrong, but he was ruled incompetent.)
Nobody came out and said 'gosh, we saw him walking down the street with a gun, and a mag sticking a foot out of it, but didn't think anything of it. Wish we'd said something.'
So, what problem are we trying to solve here? How often IS it a problem? I've got one example (actually helpful, previously there were none I was aware of) of the police refusing to investigate what a reasonable person considered to be suspicious and some people died before the confirmation of that suspicion could be addressed. What else? What is the ask here, and why, and what problem does it solve?
Squinch
(59,450 posts)said it does.
Or are you saying that when someone sees hinkie looking people openly carrying, they should - or should not - alert the police?
Are you suggesting that open carry makes us all safer? That we should not feel ill at ease when these dolts walk into Starbucks with their guns slung on their backs and start taking photos of each other because they are so bad-ass that they brought their guns to Starbucks?
Are you suggesting that the poster is wrong to be disturbed by someone open carrying in Walmart?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)it is actually a problem worth addressing. Does it enable a crime, or does it amplify the damage of a crime?
So far I've got one example of this practice being legal, and the fact that it was legal gave the person doing it a 'pass' to be ignored by the police until he started killing people. An opportunity to save (I think two) lives was missed because OC being legal meant what he was doing in that moment wasn't worth law enforcement acting on it, despite at least one person considering it suspicious.
How often does that happen. What is the net return on changing this practice? My state is OC. Never once heard of it contributing to a problem. Not once. (The example upthread might have been from a different state)
I think the OP is overreacting, but like art, you can't exactly quantify people's responses to an emotional thing. I don't consider that behavior a threat, someone else might I guess. I don't particularly see why.
The reason I'm not a big fan of OC is entirely backwards/unhelpful to the OP's position. I view it as a strategic and tactical error if one is in fact carrying a gun for personal security.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)conceal carries all the time, but he assures us that he is a really reasonable man. For example, he says that when he bumps someone with his shopping cart, he's careful to apologize so that the situation doesn't escalate to where he needs to pull out his gun. He feels that a supermarket bump might possibly escalate into a situation where he needs his gun. Imagine what goes through his head if someone steals his parking space or calls him an asshole.
Someone open carrying in Walmart, to me, is proving that he is even more unbalanced. I am sure you will disagree, but open carrying in Walmart indicates to me a person with an enormous chip on his shoulder, someone just itching to prove his dominance to the rest of us. Someone who needs to do this is, to my mind, proving he is not mature enough to be carrying a gun.
Though no one is saying that carrying a gun in public spaces causes massacres, it certainly does increase the likelihood of the many accidents we read about all the time in which people are shot because of rank and shocking stupidity. A guy who needs to display his toy to the other Walmart shoppers is showing that he lives at that level of stupidity.
But the real damage, I think, is in the attempt to normalize the appearance of guns in every area of life. This has caused an increase in the number of guns the average gun owner owns, and has enriched the gun manufacturers. This makes it worth their while to fund the lobbies that work their asses off to make sure that no laws are passed that will actually make any of us safe from gun nuttery.
I don't think she's over-reacting. I have been affected by more than one situation where guns were pulled by irrational men for slights that would have had no repercussions if no one was carrying.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)COLORADO SPRINGS — On Halloween morning, Naomi Bettis called 911 to report a man with a long black rifle outside her home. The dispatcher asked her to describe what she saw.
“I couldn’t tell if it was real or not, it being Halloween day, you know,” Bettis recalled, her voice quavering. “But that’s what I told her, and all of a sudden she started saying something about— I don’t remember what they call it— open arms … and she said, you know, we have that law here. And it just kind of blew me away, like she didn’t believe me or something.”
In Colorado, as in a majority of states, openly carrying a firearm in public isn’t against the law. So Bettis hung up — only to call back again after the man with the gun opened fire on a bicyclist outside her door.
Witnesses to the shooting told reporters that the 33-year-old suspect calmly walked down the street with a military-style rifle, shooting and killing two more people, apparently at random, before police gunned him down in a shootout. Bettis said she was angry she had to call dispatchers twice.
“I don’t think she probably thought it was an emergency until I made the second call, and that’s when I said, ‘That guy I just called you about, he just shot somebody,’” Bettis said.
(more at link)
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)That meets all criteria.
panader0
(25,816 posts)Sidearms are common at the stores. My thought is "why are you scared to go shopping?".
But besides the silliness that I perceive, I don't care. I always "make" my surroundings.
I instinctively sense people around me. I can't help it.
I went to the bar to see my buddies play on Sunday--a biker gift rally--those guys and gals
donated a firetruck full of toys for Christmas. Several were packing, including this pistol packin' mama.....
But I digress. I guess I'm inured.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I was just floored to see it today. I hate the idea of getting used to it, but you can't exactly wall the rest of the world away from you. I have my grandchildren a lot and I want them safe. It's difficult for me to feel they are when I see this.
This is something I'll be thinking about for a while in determining how best to deal with it. Just no more Walmart for me.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)nobody here gets the vapors about it.
I myself don't open carry, but it certainly doesn't bother me in the least.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)
bananas
(27,509 posts)Automated Message
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On Wed Dec 23, 2015, 03:59 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
I live in the Flagstaff area and, like you, it's common to see people open carrying,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7469028
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This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"gets the vapors" is an extremely inappropriate - and intentionally insulting - characterization of the OP's response to the situation she was in and of others' concerns.
It an attempt to intimidate and silence by mocking.
It is standard gun militant lingo, but it is just simply not civil when directed at members of this website.
The open carrying of weapons is a matter of public policy and public interest worthy of discussion here.
Many members have expressed concerns in this thread, and this post insults all of them.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Dec 23, 2015, 04:08 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
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GGJohn
(9,951 posts)I wasn't talking about the OP, I was talking about my fellow Flagstaff citizens.
Thank you for these results.
beevul
(12,194 posts)That's obvious desperation.
icymist
(15,888 posts)I had a similar experience in a Kroger store. It was a gentleman who look like he was in his sixties and was open carrying a pistol in a holster attached to his belt. He stood there smiling at me when I noticed his gun. I sighed, shrugged, and left the store.
Why do people feel the need to open carry in all parts of our society? Your guy, is most likely, scared. All this stupid talk being passed around about how all certain people only want to kill us all is making people crazy. The guy I saw probably has good intentions, but I don't know that. I'm a member of a sexual minority that has had life and home threatened by anonymous cowards who are afraid of others not like they are!
Your granddaughters deserve more than to see a society so afraid of itself that it thinks it needs to carry arms to a grocery store!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and if that was a cop with a proper holster. What you described sounds like a type I holster, which most law enforcement shies away from for very solid and good reasons. Guns are easy to lose in a fist to cuffs. And losing your gun might not be the best of ideas.
I would not go back either.
But then again, posts like yours remind me why, with warts and all, I like a state with better gun regulations.
Happy holidays, merry christmas, and have a good one.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)It's good to see you. Hope you have a good holiday, too. 
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)I'm sure they'll weigh in sooner or later about how that guy wasn't hurting anyone and blah blah blah because gunz
They know who they are. They just don't care. That's the thing about glib sociopaths...
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)going MMMOMMMYYY. They are gonna take me away, he, he, they are going to take me away ha, ha
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)
I fucking hate guns and I don't want to be around anyone who has them. Fortunately I live in a place where gun ownership is very rare (one of the lowest rates in the country) and open carry is non-existent.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)the vast majority of us oppose open carry.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)What you say is true, but DU is increasingly legitimizing public (sorta) hatred in service of some "worthy" cause; I think the Christian way of putting it is "shaming."
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)It's less comfortable, but raises less anxiety for some people.
My wife can't concealed carry anymore, because she got a medical marijuana card, and can no longer pass the federal portion of the background check to renew her permit.
Logical
(22,457 posts)
hack89
(39,181 posts)ok. If you say so.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...I think open carry is idiotic.
And yes, I really am a glib sociopath. Well, okay...maybe not all that glib.
Logical
(22,457 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)For our children.
They already have mass shooting defense drills and perpetual war news.
What will the effect of this be?
randys1
(16,286 posts)
leftyladyfrommo
(19,995 posts)In the 50's when the Commie scare was going strong. As a little kid I was scared to death that we would all get blown away in a nuclear war. We had bomb drills at school. The news was full of nuclear bombs going off.
I had nightmares for years.
This is nothing new.
madville
(7,847 posts)I personally am not an open carry fan and wouldn't do it even if it was allowed in this state (which it's not). I do have a concealed carry license and that is my preference. I understand how it could upset some though. The Walmarts here all still sell guns as well and have them openly displayed.
sweetapogee
(1,216 posts)if I were to get upset every time I noticed an open carry I would always be upset.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)...and unfortunate, but we currently live in a country that is afraid of its own shadow. The fear mongering going on by the GOP/ Trump/ Fox/ NRA has been very effective and has some people thinking there is a boogie man around every coroner waiting to attack them...it is sad
Saw a recent article where a double digit percentage of those polled wanted to bomb the make believe world of Aladdin...a make believe place...
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/18/republican-voters-bomb-agrabah-disney-aladdin-donald-trump
Best advice is too first take a deep breath and relax. Second ignore the inevitable snide replies your post is going to generate. Third think about the places you normally shop at and research what their policy is about open carry and if possible adjust where you shop to only those businesses that do not allow open carry in their place of business and let those businesses know you appreciate that.
yardwork
(69,333 posts)I hope that people stop shopping at stores and businesses that allow open carry. Then only the gunslingers will be there.
aksptth
(68 posts)An Army Vet rattled and shaken by the sight of a holstered gun? Not sure I'm feeling this. You'd probably be more shocked by the number of people around you concealed carrying.
With that said, I'm am not at all sure about either the need or the wisdom of open carry. A responsible gun owner would avoid open carry like the plague. If something were to happen and a potentially violent situation occur putting lives at risk, nothing puts a target on you like an openly visible defensive weapon.
Open Carry people are doing it as a political statement. Carrying deadly weapons as a political statement ought to be a disqualifying attitude in and of itself. Choosing to carry defensive weapons is a responsibility and not to be undertaken either lightly or irresponsibly.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)innocent people killed. Responsible/rational people don't need a gun strapped to their body to go to the store.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Who then reached in and accidentally pulled the trigger, killing mommy?
Responsible gun owner?
At least the child only killed the idiot with the gun in her purse, and not an innocent bystander....
aksptth
(68 posts)There was no intentional discharge in the situation. It was acknowledged by all involved as an accident. Firearms around children are an absolute and well known danger. Any parent that owns a weapon with children around must absolutely take special precautions. A parent may well be very responsible in deciding not to own any firearms while they have children in the house.
But hey, I have no children and while you having children required special thought and extra measures by you, it is not my issue.
So now in talking about accidental deaths caused every day by thousands of different circumstances, what does one accidental discharge say about anything? Parent working on car with child in the car who manages to accidentally run over parent. Do we ban all cars?
peacebird
(14,195 posts)The child will forever have to live with the knowledge they killed their mother.
It is not the childs fault that there was an accidental discharge, it is totally the fault of the mom (adult gun owner) who had a loaded handgun in her purse without the safety on.
TexasProgresive
(12,729 posts)Most accidental shootings I've read about are the result of stupidity or ignorance of basic gun safety. I don't like being around people with guns because you never know if they are idiots or responsible.
aksptth
(68 posts)Most accidents are the result of stupidity and/or ignorance.
TexasProgresive
(12,729 posts)aksptth
(68 posts)Yeah yeah, everyone can roll their eyes. But I want to see just one gun law that would be the biggest improvement in the entire issue.
Stop allowing people to keep the more capable weapons in isolation. Require membership in a local gun club, police auxiliary, or whatever else you want to call it.
I think there ought to be two classes of firearms. Single shot rifles, shotguns, and revolvers. Arms that can have multiple rounds are limited to eight. These are arms that should be able to be owned with only the typical restrictions (no felons, domestic abusers, etc.).
The other class consisting of semiautomatic pistols and rifles can only be owned if the owner maintains liability insurance appropriate the the class of firearms. Allow gun clubs to pool liability for group members and require the firearm industry to subsidize liability policies only for gun clubs. This would encourage people to join social groups that can police membership for unstable individuals who should not own firearms.
I think a program along these lines would solve the majority of the issues.
Crunchy Frog
(28,271 posts)Remember, "guns don't kill people, people kill people".
It was a negligent discharge on the part of the mother. She bears complete responsibility as far as I'm concerned.
mountain grammy
(29,009 posts)it's negligence and it's criminal, in my opinion.
mwb970
(12,148 posts)It was a predictable, preventable tragedy. The woman took a foolish chance and lost. It's HER fault. This was no "accident".
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Creating a deadly situation that could have hit anyone in that store, and just happened to hit her instead.
And "ban all cars." I guess you have no place to go in this argument other than that old nonsense.
aksptth
(68 posts)First, the "cowboy/hero" statement is repugnant and grossly misrepresents the motivation of almost all individuals choosing to defensive carry. Each of us has an absolute right to defend ourselves against bodily injury or situations that put our lives at risk. How you choose to do that is a question entirely up to you. The fact that some choose to defensive carry is entirely up to them as long as they are willing to undertake the requirements and responsibilities that goes along with a defensive carry decision. Others might well choose to take no defensive measures and that is up to them.
If I am defensive carrying, it is to protect myself and not others around me. A "hero" would be willing to step into a situation where your life is being threatened and render aid to you. I'm not a hero because being a hero could well get me killed. I'm not sure what would make me willing to render aid to another. Just can't say one way or the other as part of a hypothetical question. One thing I know for sure is that it would have to be a situation not subject to any interpretation and more than likely a threat to a number of people including myself.
Second, choosing to defensive carry is a 24x7 decision. People that defensive carry do so full time for the most part and they don't take it off here and put it on there. It's the only way defensive carry makes any sense. Just like you put your wallet in your pants every morning you do the same with your weapon.
Finally, you would be very hard pressed to find situations where a CCW permit holder has injured innocent bystanders. There have only been a handful of such cases in the entire country over recent years. And in almost every case the CCW permit holder violated stated laws about how one can legally employ deadly force in their own defense. You'd be many thousands of times more likely to get mowed over by a car while legally walking across the street in a crosswalk. So, by your logic should we ban all cars or all crosswalks?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)is BS, anywhere but a real war zone, not some imagined fear common among the gun culture.
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts) aksptth
(68 posts)The car analogy was an absurd argument made for effect. We do not typically go around wanting to ban useful things based upon the potential for accidental injury. That was the point.
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)It's nothing more than a false analogy fallacy used by people who can't manage to rationally argue gun control so they instead insert a completely unrelated subject and then proceed to pretend that banning cars is equally as absurd as banning guns. I'm sure you think it's clever, but I can assure you it is not. It's been around for a while and it makes no more sense today than when it first was well debunked decades ago.
So accusing someone else of not making a rational argument while at the same time employing creme-de-la-dum Wayne LaPierre's favorite tired and worn out fallacy which has evolved into cliche is kinda funny. Damn funny even.
aksptth
(68 posts)I don't belong to the NRA and I find Wayne LaPierre repugnant. If you say that is an argument LaPierre made in the past I take your word on it.
But that means a counterpoint needs to be rock solid because you know the NRA is playing for keeps.
It is a fact that we don't go around banning things simply because they cause accidental injuries. Why is it the reasonable course of action then when it comes to firearms?
I believe there are things we can do to make ownership of firearms more controlled and limited to responsible individuals. An outright ban isn't one of them and will never fly.
mwb970
(12,148 posts)The purpose of a gun is to kill people. The purpose of a car is transportation. To compare the two is illogical and ridiculous.
aksptth
(68 posts)A gun that can kill someone is an eminently useful tool. It is the best tool available in fact to stop someone that wants to cause you bodily harm or kill you. People like that exist you know, and you'll need more than strong words to stop them.
Having been the victim of a violent crime, I consider it an essential tool to never allow anyone to victimize me again. When one is seriously hurt even after complying with the demands of someone wanting to rob you, passivity is not an answer and more proactive measures are necessary.
Ilsa
(64,331 posts)Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)Alternate versions include doctors, hospitals, and other common societal functions which involve risk, yet actually have a function in civilized society and are well mitigated.
If you want to discuss fine, lets discuss. But personally disrespecting me doesn't accomplish anything.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)That said, I can understand open carry giving people pause/anxiety in some settings or situations. Some people are a bad judge of 'appropriate' and carry in places or manners that maybe ought not be.
It's a judgment call, so not everyone will ever agree, either.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Did you automatically have thousands of posts when you joined?
Is a person's opinion somehow worth less because they don't have as many posts as other people?
treestar
(82,383 posts)so it was only a few - those people are sacrificed to you right to "defensive carry." It's only a few, so it's oK their lives are over to protect our second Amendment rights, a handful of people dying is OK. I hope you erect statues to them - they died to protect your freedom.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)I find it to be an accurate statement, and the fact that you find it repugnant is not really important to me. I find people who tote guns around Walmart, in a country where we have a weekly massacre of innocent bystanders, to be repugnant.
Shopping at Walmart is not a situation that "puts your life at risk." People who feel the need to "defend ourselves against bodily injury or situations that put our lives at risk" in Walmart are a bunch of frightened drama queens creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because their hobby requires weapons so they can feel they have dominance over other people, and they are the ones creating a situation that puts lives at risk.
I don't really care that you think it's repugnant. Your feelings, and your hobby, are not worth a weekly massacre to me.
You, and others like you, who buy the guns to take to Walmart, so you can feel some kind of power that is missing in your life, are funding the guys who are funding the lobbies who prevent any action from being taken about gun massacres in America.
Take responsibility for the slaughter that your hobby has created in America.
Response to Squinch (Reply #308)
Post removed
Squinch
(59,450 posts)If you feel otherwise you are kidding yourself.
I bump you with my cart and I apologize too. Because that's what a decent person would do. It has nothing to do with escalation or de-escalation. If you weren't carrying, escalation or de-escalation would not enter into the equation. YOU are creating the situation where they do enter into the equation.
Yes, what is happening IS massacres of innocent bystanders. People going to movies. Children going to school. Kids in a college classroom. They are the DEFINITION of innocent bystander. Because the people who target them think they have a reason, you think that makes them something other than innocent bystanders? If so, you are insanely wrong.
You are requiring that I am willing to die for YOUR political statement, your NRA defined right, which is that you need to have your power stick next to me while I am trying to pick a ripe avocado in the grocery store, and therefore we all need to worry about your "escalation" problems.
And so now I have heard you tell me your rule about the fact that you need to carry every day, all the time. And it's just that. Some asinine rule you made up in your head. That makes us all less safe for no reason whatsoever.
As I said. A bunch of drama queens creating self-fulfilling prophecies.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)in this country is nothing more than a hobby.
uppityperson
(116,017 posts)Please clarify why being killed in mass shootings means you are not "innocent bystanders" because you are being targeted for a political statement.
Please clarify what "political statement" most of these people were saying. http://www.shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)you have no proof.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Burden of proof falls on the person making the assertion. Otherwise I can say I'm Napoleon XVII, here to rule all the world, and you're going to owe me a whole lot of money once I get those tax bills out in the mail.
Prove I'm wrong or break out your checkbook.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Or "gunz," as you call them. My point was about rhetoric and the obligation to support one's assertions.
Any comments about that?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Sausage, eggs, and toast.
Go for it.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)WTF?
Try reading the first part of his post, that's what I was asking if he had any proof.
But then, you knew that.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)The one who can't go to Baskin and Robbins without packing heat.
I'm asking Hoyt if he had any proof of his claim.
But you already knew that.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)makes no difference to me.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)As I discuss in greater detail downthread, open carry is stupid on multiple levels.
pnwmom
(110,254 posts)It's a way of saying "watch out" and "F U" at the same time.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)
uppityperson
(116,017 posts)Ever heard of ptsd?
Vets, trained in weapons, will never have pstd that might be triggered by recent media covered shootings and then seeing someone carrying a gun in the open?
Seriously?
aksptth
(68 posts)But you will not find me defending open carry in any case.
uppityperson
(116,017 posts)Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)At least with the open carry gunnuts they are more easily identified as dipshits so ate up with the paranoia they can't manage to leave home without precious and can be avoided.
There's no such thing as a "responsible" gun owner who carries. Guns don't make anyone safer. They always make people less safe. If they were truly responsible they would leave the gun at home locked in a safe to mitigate the risk to everyone else.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I spent much of my life around weapons and I'm fairly adept with them. They always had their place...at least I had always thought so.
We had weapons ranges, hunting, target practice in the country, my husband teaching our son, etc. Those I assumed to be appropriate venues.
I was rattled by seeing someone wearing one in a grocery store of all places. Since it only had two elastic straps, I can well imagine it would take little for it to be removed by another number of means including tripping and falling.
I'm sure I would be very surprised by concealed carry. My sister keeps one in her pickup and she lives in the country out in the middle of nowhereville, OK. I've no doubt she's expecting to run into a rabid terrorist at any moment. She's a Trump fan. How we came from the same mother, I'll never know. LOL
Anyway, you are right on the money about everything else.
progressoid
(53,150 posts)It seems every day there is a shooting involving a responsible gun owner. If this keeps up, there will only be irresponsible gun owners left.
GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)a potentially violent situation occur putting lives at risk, nothing puts a target on you like an openly visible offensive weapon."
Fixed it for you.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)But open carry gun nuts are basically using their right to bear arms to intimidate people for political purposes with an implied threat of violence. That makes them terrorists.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I think SOME people who open carry engage in that sort of behavior. Yes.
But certainly not all.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is an interesting proposition. I don't have a suggestion of how to go about it.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)One other thing to me and that is that maybe the carrier can qualify to buy a gun but not make it to get a concealed permit...or maybe cannot even qualify to buy one legally at all, maybe bought that one privately...
I used to be a firearms dealer and I will tell you that a lot tried to buy and didn't get caught on it but usually I could tell if they were trying to slip by and would just refuse the deal altogether.. Long time ago....
At least someone with a concealed carry permit has passed all the required checks, in some states that s much more stringent than just to buy a firearm...
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)People with a medical license to use marijuana for any reason will fail a CPL background check at the federal level.
So, your point is accurate, but for a reason that is not valid in the sense that the person should actually be disqualified for a real reason.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)It is legal even without a medical permit .... There are a lot of reasons to be disqualified use of illegal drugs is one but I don't think the background check includes checking to see if they have a medical card, although it has been 30 years since I was a firearms dealer. We have instant background checks here.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Our state also requires a full FBI background check with fingerprints as the second stage of the background check. (First stage is WA state patrol databases)
Takes about 60 days. Different states vary considerably, that's why there's no universal reciprocity CPL. There's only 50 states, but something like 60 combinations of reciprocity. It's kind of hilarious.
http://komonews.com/news/local/gun-owner-denied-cpl-for-legally-using-marijuana
In that case, reporting the medical card appears to have been voluntary, but not reporting it would be perjury.
Basically the whole thing is a soup sandwich until states and the federal government get on the same page with regards to medical marijuana classification.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Does not recognize any other state, but some other states recognize Oregon.. Just not enough of them so I also have a Utah license which gives me a lot more options as to where I can carry..Main reason I did that is I visit in Washington state a lot and they do not recognize Oregon..
You are probably already aware of this site but in case not it is a good place to see what is what for state firearms laws
http://www.handgunlaw.us/
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)anyone not like him. Plus, he enjoys intimidating people.
More complaints and derision will have a long-term impact.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I realize there are rural areas where it's pretty commonplace. No problem: in those areas, it's not something that's going to trouble most residents. They're used to it.
Everywhere else in this country, however, it's not commonplace. To the majority of people who see someone openly carrying (and particularly if it's something other than a holstered handgun), it's jarring at best. To some, it's outright frightening. It makes them afraid, and regardless of whether there's any actual danger or not, that's not hard to understand (remember: it's FEAR FEAR FEAR 24/7 in the media). Simply put, open carry is a dick move.
And to no good purpose. As a method of protest, it's right up there with Critical Mass and some of PETA's worst moments in terms of being counterproductive. Making people afraid makes them dislike you, once the fear wears off. Then they'll hate your guts. People who don't like you stop listening to your message...it's basic human nature. Open carry protesters are some of the worst enemies of gun rights advocates.
If, on the other hand, they're carrying for personal protection...well, unless they live in Kandahar Province, they're probably arming themselves against something that's never going to happen. And if they do defy the odds and something goes down, open carry sacrifices any possible chance of having surprise on their side. Who do you suppose someone planning shenanigans is going to shoot first, from surprise? My money's on the dumbass with the AR slung over his shoulder...
dixiegrrrrl
(60,157 posts)I don't want to be near an open fat good ole boy in a crowded store if firing breaks out.
Problem is, Wal-Mart attracts enough nuts, if the news of frequent fights and police shootings IN the store is anything to go on.
The only open carry I see here in my lil southern town is rifles in teh rack in the pickups trucks, during hunting season.
aksptth
(68 posts)Most gun owners are not well practiced. Most CCW permit holders do practice a lot and most States require a proficiency test as part of the CCW application process.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)I took was a damn joke. Just stand 30 feet away and fire 20 rounds at a stationary target. No ccw holder is trained in snap shooting, and there is no way they practice enough. My friend from high school was a navy SEAL, and he said sometimes they would shoot hundreds of rounds a day during training. His goal, hit a 3 by 5 inch business card, under stress or sleep deprivation.
My point being is that 90% of ccw holders have nowhere near enough training to be tactically effective.
Bettie
(19,664 posts)between calmly shooting a target with no obstacles between you and the target and shooting into a crowd during a confusing, stressful situation.
Even people trained in crisis response can have trouble identifying who is the "good guy" and who is the "bad guy" in those situations. I certainly don't trust an untrained civilian to start shooting in the midst of a crisis. Again, too many people who live in fear of...well, everything or who feel inadequate without the means to kill at hand.
lancer78
(1,495 posts)who carries thousands of dollars in cash in a run down area (Low income rental property manager), I have a reason to carry a gun. Guess what, I don't. Fear is a baseless emotion that is the tool of the terrorist, and must be purged from your body.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)It is a response to situations which are threatening (based on a wide range of experiences). I believe many in this thread enjoy fanning fears, or are caught up in narratives accompanying those who like to stoke fears. I live in Texas, and I have plenty of guns, but am opposed to OC. At the same time, I am not fearful of those people waltzing and around with arms; those who OC are quite few, and the number will shrink back. What do I fear? All the affirmities of old age is a good one.... and getting far enough from other hunters during a dove shoot.
No purges for me. Fear is not enjoyable, but can be useful.
Old Codger
(4,205 posts)Even LEO's should be shooting into a crowd regardless of the reason...The training tells you to not do that, in a decent well run police department they have to justify and account for any shots they take....If oyu don't know where the round is going to end up don't pull the trigger
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)unarmed teen. He learned his lessons taking a course to get his permits. That's what those courses -- often taught by NRA certified "instructors" -- are aimed at.
sonofspy777
(360 posts)
You shouldn't have to fear for your grandchildrens' lives!
Hekate
(100,133 posts)I'm glad you dropped by. Believe me, I would feel the same way.
LiberalEsto
(22,845 posts)if I saw something like that.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Your call "to corporate" was handled at a call center by a company that handles calls from thousands of customers/employees of many large corporations.
I have several friends who work for that company. Wal-Mart does not give one single hoot about your complaint.
Did they give you a date to call back to see if they respond? Curious.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Report a man with a gun.
doc03
(39,074 posts)that would probably justify another shooting by cop.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)The police have better things to do than respond to false reports. It would do you good to be charged for the false report.
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)To say you see a man with a gun.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)The 911 operator will not dispatch an officer hopefully. Of course you can exaggerate and possibly get him murdered like the poor black kid at Walmart
Reter
(2,188 posts)Not a false report, but you can't report what's legal in that area.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)because someone was doing nothing illegal.
Great idea!!!
aikoaiko
(34,214 posts)I don't like the open carry movement because I understand the sight of guns startles and sometimes upsets people, but on the other hand I do recognize that people may have their reasons. Its probably safer in his holster than left in the car.
Folks who open carry hardly ever just start shooting for no reason. If you live in the south, as I do too, there are many more guns on persons in public that are concealed than are carried openly.
rurallib
(64,684 posts)The scenario in my mind is to stop shopping, seek out management and then walk out the door and leave the shopping cart where ever I was at the time. Then write a letter to the company HQ explaining why I will never be back.
Well played. Yep, guns on hips scare me, even police. The only way anything gets done in this country is to kick them in the wallet.
PatrickforO
(15,420 posts)I'm pretty concerned because thanks to the spinelessness of our politicians who are too scared to stand up to the NRA, we have people like this guy 'open-carrying' in Wal-Mart.
The most troubling thing about this is that someone who is going to 'open carry' when shopping at a Wal-Mart may be an anti-abortion, 'christian' crazy, KKK-leaning, survivalist nut job. And this group, again thanks to our own stupidity and lack of political courage against a bunch of weapons manufacturers, is now ARMED TO THE TEETH.
God help us when they come crawling out from under their rocks.
MerryBlooms
(12,242 posts)
In the back of your mind, you can deal with trying to protect yourself or even being murdered... but you can't wrap your mind around your children or grand babies in the same circumstance. How do you protect them? How fast can you and them to an exit? Am I overreacting and making a fool of myself?
I came to the conclusion; I'd get the hell out if I saw anyone with a gun, no matter what public space we were in and anyone with a problem with that can just bugger off.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I would have done the same. No sane person wants to be around clowns with loaded guns in a grocery store. What the hell.
SDJay
(1,089 posts)It happened to me once when I was traveling in a different part of the country and it rattled me to the point where I left that store. I had our toddler with me at the time and all I could think was to get her out of there ASAFP.
Not only does seeing that make me wonder what that person is thinking, but it enrages me to think about all the scum out there making billions in a dangerous environment they gladly helped create.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)"Look at me, I'm really tough because I have a weapon." The implication is that without the weapon he would be a total wimp. Kind of like guys with huge trucks. It really seems like people are tought to be afraid: of terrorism, or co-shoppers, whatever. La Pierre knows his marketing. Advertising relies on creating an emotional need in the consumer for your product, and that's what the NRA is all about. The side effect is that many people are scared shitless about, basically, the world that they live in. All of it.
Remember the episode of South Park with "Chin-Poke-Mon."
UTUSN
(77,720 posts)Their perfect poster boy is John WAYNE the draft dodger and actor of fantasy life. Why don't they go fight ISIS instead of patrolling J.C.Pennys with AK-47s?!1
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)People of good conscience need to exit from the demented culture of the gun hobbyists. Vote with your feet, since our politicians are craven cowards to the gun lobby.
japple
(10,459 posts)anyone openly carrying a gun of any kind into a business that I patronize.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)And I don't know what I'm going to do the first time I see somebody open carry in a store. Probably "Nope the fuck out of there" which is internet speak for "voting with your feet".
Businesses can opt out and put up a sign not allowing guns. However, at this point I don't know what businesses are going to ban open carry and which ones aren't. The OP is very scared and I understand that reaction. OP has been in the Army. I have never been around guns and am not comfortable around them and don't know anything about shooting them. I have not been in the military.
doc03
(39,074 posts)open carry weapons. It is not against the law here so someone has to do it to show their manhood. There is
this guy that stops at the carry out to get coffee and he parades around with his gun just wanting someone to say something about it so he can give his 2 Amendment speech. I think he has the short mans
syndrome
aksptth
(68 posts)I think in Ohio you need a license to carry to carry a concealed weapon. But you don't need anything to open carry. That makes open carry idiots more common. Bad policy.
mwb970
(12,148 posts)The voters here are divided 50-50 but the republicans run EVERYTHING anyway. As a result, we are in a steep decline with no sign of an endpoint.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Have you heard this speech? What did someone say to him that prompted him to make it? Did he appear to be satisfied and pleased at the opportunity to give it? Is that how you gauged that he was "wanting someone to say something"?
Short people? What, are we height-shaming now?
doc03
(39,074 posts)you are permitted to carry a gun like that. He gave a smart ass remark, like why do think I would be doing it if it wasn't legal. Then he made his 2 Amendment thing about him exercising his right to keep and bare arms.
Yes by his body language he appeared to want someone to say something. Not all short people have an attitude but there are many that do have the SMS. I really don't see why anyone would feel the need to open carry other than to try and intimidate people or they are just plain cowards.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Because he didn't want to expend the time and effort to get a concealed carry permit, yet still wanted to carry a firearm.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)... but there was nothing about "up and down in front" of Starbucks. That would suggest a demonstration, when what was described was a person purchasing coffee.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Squinch
(59,450 posts)to feel the need to parade around Starbucks showing his gun?
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)... then surely no reason can exist.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Despite repeated requests for what you think might be possibilities.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)... which you could easily figure out for yourself if you were willing to exercise your imagination, and which you will reflexively deny anyway ...
He believes that it is prudent to arm himself for self-defense in this uncertain world, yet doesn't want to go to the time and expense of getting a concealed carry permit, especially given the fact that concealed carry is less comfortable, limits one to compact and subcompact pistols, and makes it more difficult to access the firearm.
Now, let's hear your counterarguments.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)perfectly civil with you.
You have pointed out before that he may not have wanted to go through the paperwork of getting a concealed carry permit and he wanted to defend himself against the dangerous world. Statistics show that it is delusional to think that gun ownership makes you safer than non-gun ownership, but let's leave that aside. And btw, no, I won't get you those statistics. They have been posted on DU countless times, so you can get them if you want them.
The question still stands. If, as you say, his only goal was to protect himself against the dangers of Starbucks, he would take his open carry gun up to the counter, get his coffee and then either sit down and drink his coffee, or talk to his friends, or go home.
How about if you now use your imagination and give me another reason besides a need for attention that would make him feel the need to parade around the Starbucks showing his gun to other patrons.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Yet you persist in repeating the same question over and over, as if there could be no other reason.
There is no indication that he did anything other than that. The use of the word "parading" is projection on the part of a person who clearly objects to open carry, and the notion that he wanted to be confronted is armchair psychology.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)said that he paraded around the store making sure others saw his gun.
For which behavior there is no other explanation other than a need for attention. Unless you can come up with one. Though you don't seem to be doing that.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)... that the word "paraded" is routinely used to describe any ambulatory activity by an open carrier. It's one of those buzzwords, like "strapped on" and the like. Unless I hear that he actually paced up and down the length of the establishment, raising his coat/shirt and thrusting his gun in people's faces, I take the term "paraded" with a grain of salt. A very large grain of salt.
You are predisposed to accept the OP's characterizations. I am not. We apparently come from very different worlds.
Have a nice holiday.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)around Starbucks is looking for attention, which is what we HAVE been discussing, to whether you believe the original poster who described the situation. And whether you believe the original poster is of no interest to me.
So I guess you were not able to come up with any reason why someone would need to parade his open carry gun around Starbucks other than a need for attention.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)I want details of this person's behavior, not just prejudicial statements from someone who obviously hates the entire concept of open carry. None were forthcoming -- merely that he sought to explain himself when confronted about why he carried. Was he marching up and down and thrusting his holstered pistol into people's faces? If not, then he wasn't "parading."
I have already explained why someone would open carry at Starbucks. I assume you and the OP are using "parade" in the sense of "to exhibit ostentatiously," as Webster puts it. From the attitudes that you and the OP have displayed, it is clear to me that any and all open carry would be viewed as ostentatious. I'm reminded of people who respond to public displays of gay affection by saying "But why do they have to rub it in people's faces?" So no, I don't think the person open carrying in Starbucks was "parading." It's a propagandist's term, not a neutral description of behavior.
And your insistence that you can accurately gauge the motivations for behavior that you did not witness is of no interest to me.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)immaterial to me.
What we were discussing is whether there is another reason other than a desire for attention that would make a person parade around Starbucks showing his open carry gun.
You have not been able to come up with any other reasons.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)immaterial to me.
What we were discussing is whether there is another reason other than a desire for attention that would make a person parade around Starbucks showing his open carry gun.
Since you chimed in immediately after the OP of this sub-thread, using the same descriptor as he did, I don't see how you can now claim that you were not supporting his description of this behavior. You were taking that as a given and then opining on the motivation for such behavior.
The mere fact that you can't pose your question without using the word "parade" indicates that you concur with the OP's attempt to characterize the person's actions as attention-seeking behavior. But you're not able to do that, you see, because you weren't there. I've asked for a description of what the person was doing that qualified the judgement of "parading," but wasn't given one. I have decided then, that I'm not going to make that judgement. You have decided that you are going to make it. Feel free to indulge your prejudices, absent any evidence, but don't ask me to join you.
If the person were indeed "making an ostentatious display," then I would agree that he was seeking attention. However, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about his motivations, as the OP did in the comment about "short man's syndrome." He may have sought attention for a political belief regarding legality of open carry or regarding patronage of establishments that allow firearms. Would that qualify as "attention"?
Squinch
(59,450 posts)open carry gun around Starbucks, other than a need for attention.
That took an awfully long time, but we did get there.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)You are incapable of discussing this issue without using the word "parade." It's a meaningless tautology.
open carry gun around Starbucks, other than a need for attention.
See this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027468406#post460
We got nowhere. You parroted some propaganda over and over and over, in the face of all reason and logic. I suppose you consider that some sort of accomplishment.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Seeking information, were you? Of course you were. Of course you were.
Actually, I'm not all that upset. More like annoyed, the way one gets when on hold and hearing the same inane music over and over and over.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Straw Man
(6,943 posts)I told you why someone would open carry in Starbucks. This didn't satisfy you, since I didn't include your unfounded pejorative "parade." So you persisted with your meaningless tautology, which, by the way, had nothing to do with the post you were responding to, which was based on an incident that you didn't witness and about which you had very little information.
Now tell me what you have gleaned from this little exchange. Was it somehow informative to you? I hope so -- otherwise why would you have been so persistent in your questioning?
Squinch
(59,450 posts)for someone to parade his open carry gun around Starbucks besides a need for attention.
You seemed to be saying that you thought otherwise, but in the end, I see that we agree. There is no other reason for someone to do that.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Squinch
(59,450 posts)open carry gun around Starbucks besides a need for attention, and we both know you will need to have the last word on this, so I'm going to say, "Bye" and hope you have fun with that!
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Parade parade parade parade; parade parade, parade parade parade parade parade.
Parade?
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Since "parading" is by definition an attention-seeking behavior, what you're saying is "Why would someone engage in attention-seeking behavior except to seek attention?" It's a meaningless tautology. What we were discussing was whether mere carrying of a firearm openly is attention-seeking behavior. I think that it ain't necessarily so, and have provided several alternative possibilities.
You, on the other hand, can't discuss the issue without using the term "parading."
If you prefer to argue meaningless tautologies ad nauseum, feel free to carry on. It's absolutely pointless, but that doesn't seem to have deterred you thus far.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)other than for attention, would a person parade his open carry gun around Starbucks?
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 26, 2015, 03:34 PM - Edit history (2)
other than for attention, would a person parade his open carry gun around Starbucks?
I've read the whole thread. Do you really expect me to believe, after you've made statements like these ...
... that you are neutral on the topic of open carry? You have displayed an attitude of contempt for the practice. Are you trying to claim that you haven't?
Squinch
(59,450 posts)there is any reason, other than a need for attention, why someone would need to parade his open carry gun around Starbucks.
Just curious: are you a guy who open carries to Starbucks?
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)there is any reason, other than a need for attention, why someone would need to parade his open carry gun around Starbucks.
I have no problem sticking to the topic, but that doesn't mean I have to accept your characterization of all concealed carry as "parading." If that's not a fair assessment of your position, then please explain what type of concealed carry behavior you would not consider to be "parading."
Do you know what a tautology is? Apparently you don't, or you would realize how pointless and circular your question is.
No. I'm not. Would that mean anything in the context of this discussion?
Paladin
(32,354 posts)How in the hell did we ever get to a point where that makes sense?
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)How in the hell did we ever get to a point where that makes sense?
I don't know. The logic of gun control is stunningly inconsistent.
Skittles
(171,614 posts)gun humpers are A-OK with mass shootings becoming the norm but any penis analogies makes them very upset
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
Squinch
(59,450 posts)But our NRA enabling friends don't like to acknowledge that relationship at all, do they?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)At least that's what I hear.
Throd
(7,208 posts)I support the 2nd amendment, but the open carry people are just dicks who hurt their own cause.
GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)
MisterP
(23,730 posts)they're not defending from tyranny, they're enforcing it
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)for a very long time. I guess I am used to it. It does not shock me.
Paladin
(32,354 posts)Open carry has nothing to do with serious personal protection---training-based concealed carry covers that. What open carry is about is blatant public intimidation and a desire for armed altercation; profoundly sick thinking at work. You did exactly the right thing by getting the hell out of that guy's area, and you did the right thing by reporting the matter to business personnel. Sorry for the unfortunate incident, but it sounds like you did an admirable job of handling it.
williesgirl
(4,033 posts)Cause they get off on frightening folks, especially kids cause then they know they've made the adults with the kids scared as well. If I see one, I leave the store immediately after dropping my cart full of whatever off at the manager's office. Then I stand outside of their main entrance and let folks know what they may encounter inside. Most folks turn back to their cars and leave.
I live in the mountains just West of DC. It's still pretty rural here, but you rarely see one of these dickless idiots.
Hug your grandkids from me and all of you have your best Christmas ever.
TNNurse
(7,537 posts)this was a white guy....you did not say. I have thought about what I would do if I encounter this. How am I supposed to know if he (or she) is one of those "good guy with a gun" that seem to be so popular with the NRA???
I would like to think it would be safe to scream "He has a gun" but he would probably use it then. Since you were in the south (where I have lived all my liberal Democrat life) what if you had said to the clerk..."there is a black guy with a gun", would you have gotten a different response?
I do not know for sure but I think I would walk out of a store or a restaurant and tell the management that I will not return as long as there is the possibility that I would encounter any one besides someone in law enforcement uniform who is armed.
And yes I know that there are probably many concealed carry people wherever I go....somehow the need to open carry speaks of someone I am not inclined to trust.
Sorry this was so hard for you. Glad you are safe.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)would have been entirely different if it were a black guy, or a tan guy with a middle eastern accent.
I have been in the situation, and have done exactly what you say you would do. The management seemed not to care, but then I called the head office and lodged a complaint and was told there had been many calls on the same issue.
I think that's the way to go.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)because an Open Carry will lose his gun faster than he's willing to shoot it. 
Squinch
(59,450 posts)both concealed carry people and open carry people are spending immense amounts of money on guns. This puts them on the same side.
They are equally funding the people who fund the lobbies who squash all laws and studies that would help us change our insane and deluded gun culture.
So whether they like it or not, and whether they like each other or not, together they are the lynchpins in the system that results in tens of thousands of deaths every year.
Every gun owner I know would like to ignore this fact, but it is a fact.
Waldorf
(654 posts)still be concealed. Open carry to me causes too many people to be uncomfortable seeing the sight of a firearm.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)"uncomfortable",
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Open carry is stupid in my opinion
dpatbrown
(368 posts)that this country has come down to this. So sad.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)
If that happened in my very conservative area I would been shaken up also.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...this isn't likely to happen to me, but if I lived in a "gun-friendly" state, I'd inform local merchants that I'd only be shopping in stores that have a "no guns" policy prominently posted. Obviously, a sign wouldn't stop anyone who wants to stomp into the store carrying, but it would allow store personnel to call law enforcement to remove the person, rather than have them shrug and say "he isn't breaking any laws."
SandersFTW
(13 posts)Are you aware that even if the store posts such a sign, all they can do is ask the customer to leave. If he/she leaves after being asked, the police can't do anything to him/her. Also, I question why you would want a person who is not breaking the law to be arrested? If you want the store to change it's policy that's fine, complain to management.
Also I notice a lot of people in here are commenting on their personal feelings of being in a safe environment. And very little about if the environment is actually made safer or less safe by a citizen legally carrying a firearm, just an observation. But peoples legal rights don't just disappear because they make another citizen of our fine country feel any particular way. If the OP didn't want to encounter someone legally carrying a weapon (BTW their are plenty of over weight police officers who carry off duty so I'm not convinced it couldn't have been an officer/deputy) Might I suggest the OP shop somewhere that has a no firearms policy. This way she and her grandchildren wouldn't have to be subject to witnessing citizens exercise their legal rights.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)...will be told (not asked) to leave by police, or be arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct. Furthermore the responding officers will know prior to entering the store that they'll be dealing with someone with an attitude problem. The end result is the gun is out of the store, which is what the rest of us want.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)...will be told (not asked) to leave by police, or be arrested for trespassing or disorderly conduct.
You said you live in New York, right? New York is not an open-carry state. Concealed-carry with a permit is the only legal way to go. As hard as this may be for you to comprehend, some store owners in concealed-carry-only states will not post a "no-guns sign" because it can only lose them business. The theory is that anti-gun people can't get pissed off over what they can't see, whereas concealed-carry people will not patronize a business with a "no-guns" sign, whether as a matter of policy or as a matter of safety when the only alternative is leaving the gun in the car.
Who exactly are "the rest of us"?
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 23, 2015, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)
There's no real need to post a sign other than to show solidarity with merchants in open carry states or to maintain a constant corporate policy across the country. Anyone who displays a weapon in a store can be removed by the police (other than the obvious exception for LEOs themselves).
"The rest of us" are people who would, knowing that weapons are frequently carried inside a business establishment for no good reason, (good reasons being like, you know, buying, selling, having them serviced, or target shooting) would avoid the place like the plague.
Obviously, if you keep something successfully concealed at all times, whether it be a snub-nosed .38, heroin, plutonium, or nude pictures of Ted Cruz, there's not much the rest of us can do about it.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)There's no real need to post a sign other than to show solidarity with merchants in open carry states or to maintain a constant corporate policy across the country. Anyone who displays a weapon in a store can be removed by the police (other than the obvious exception for LEOs themselves).
Open carry is illegal. If you "display" a concealed-carry weapon -- by drawing it without good reason, for example -- you are "brandishing," another offense. But there is no law or policy regarding concealed carry on unposted premises other than schools or federal buildings. If the premises are not posted and you do not display the weapon, you are perfectly within the law.
Shall I put you down in the "no such thing as armed self-defense" column, then?
There are some key distinctions to be made here. The first would be perfectly legal. The second and third would be illegal. The last, while not strictly against the letter of the law, would most certainly be a crime against nature.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)after it failed to pass by referendum, no firearm signs popped up everywhere in the St. Louis area. Banks, Grocery stores, department stores, bars, clubs, hospitals, etc. They are still up, can't go anywhere in our area outside of shooting ranges and a few select places that try to cater to those with CCW, with your gun, at least if you respected the property rights of the business owners around here.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)CCW has always been legal in NY, as long as one has the requisite permit. The 1911 Sullivan Act made the permit mandatory, but in doing so essentially enshrined the right of concealed carry for those with the permit. The impetus behind the act, with its "may issue" provisions, was to allow Tammany Hall politicians to arm their own goons while denying that ability to the goons of opposing factions, as well as to immigrants and other such "undesirables" -- hence the NY Times editorial in support of the law:
https://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian
Ironically, and happily, many upstate counties are far less restrictive in their review of permit applications and are much more apt to grant them to anyone who meets the criteria: no need to be a celebrity or a 1%er.
As for Missouri CCW, I'm left wondering why, if public sentiment is so much against it, the 2014 referendum strengthening the RKBA sections of the state constitution passed with 60% of the vote and why the legislature recently lowered the age for CCW from 21 to 19.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)with expected results, this is what I'm referring to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missouri_Proposition_B_(1999)
I never claimed public sentiment is against it now, just that it was voted down once and the legislature overrode the referendum, and I remember it being narrow, thought we dodged a bullet, pun intended. Please bear in mind that the Missouri legislature is much more conservative than the state overall, even though the state is much more conservative now than it was when I first started voting.
The state is fucking crazy, they recently expanded the castle doctrine so you can kill people to protect your property.
SandersFTW
(13 posts)Curious, what was your MOS in the Army?
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Hekate
(100,133 posts)...and may peace attend you.
DVRacer
(734 posts)That's not an MOS and nobody I ever knew would answer what's your MOS like that. Maybe I'm overreacting so what's your MOS?
haele
(15,376 posts)Not to mention the two secondary ones I picked up over the 20 years I was enlisted. Even when I was active, I'd probably have to look at my record depending on what I was doing at the time.
There were approximately 30 different codes in my rate (technical), and since cynatnite has mentioned being a medic, there's at least triple that number that s/he could possibly have qualified for at any particular time, depending on where and with what agency s/he had orders with.
I retired in 1998 and have gone on with my life. If you asked me the same question, I'd tell you what I was doing instead of an NEC, because frankly, I can't remember to that granularity.
It's rather like asking what the combination for the lock I used for any barracks or shipboard personal lockers after boot camp. I used that lock for 10 years. I think it was a 2" MasterLock that went to 50, and that's only because I'm mentally picturing it. I could probably remember, but it would take more time and effort to try to go through the physical memory steps to tell you the combination, than it would just to say I used the same lock for 10 years, before I lost it when moving. Unless you made me a defendant at the court of public opinion, why make the effort?
Haele
I was discharged in 1997 for injures I received overseas while in the U.S. Navy. Nobody ever referred to NEC's except maybe a YN you were known by your rate mine was IS. I was assigned to VF84 then VF41 and handled the TARPS pod. I was also small arms E and went TAD a lot while on cruise with Team 4 & 8 that were with our CBG. Awarded NUC and 2 MUC's which are the unit versions of Silver Star and Bronze Star. Certain lingo never leaves you ever.
To the actual topic at hand: I live in Oklahoma where open carry is allowed and I have never felt the need to even own a firearm since coming home. I can spot a CCW with ease and well with open carry if I ever really needed one well I would just take one of those idiot's away from them. The most effective "weapon" I always take note of when walking past are CO2 extinguishers. The range is a good meter and a half and overwhelming but non lethal after spraying it becomes a good club. The spray besides being very cold will take away their oxygen it also doubles as a smokescreen if you can run away instead which should be your first reaction in a gun fight. The DV in my name is for Dysfunctional Veteran which I am.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)your concerns and enjoy your stay.
DVRacer
(734 posts)I have been here almost a year and tend to read much more than I write. I work with disabled veterans and am one myself and I tend to get defensive when things people say or write do not sound quite right. Most who have served are similar and if we say something that could be mis understood we often jump in and clarify to remove any doubt. Now please do not mistake this for the "Super Veterans" that make videos of jumping all over some poor kid that dresses up in fatigues Claiming look I found Stolen Valor look at me. I simply asked for clarification to a question that was asked of what was the OP's MOS or Rate was because the answer seemed dodgey to my low post count ears and I may have misunderstood or misinterpreted the answer. My apologies if offense was taken.
Response to cynatnite (Reply #136)
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onecaliberal
(36,594 posts) 
angrychair
(12,250 posts)Secondly, in many states, there is no special training or certification, that turns you into a competent gun owner in an afternoon.
As an example, a gun dealer can become authorized to hand out a CC license for Utah, even if the state the person is getting the license in does not recognize the Utah CC, even if the person is not a Utah state resident, through a 4 hour class, no test, you don't even shoot a real gun and after a background check, bang you are now the proud owner of a CC license that is recognized in 32 states
So:
4 hour training class ✔
No test ✔
Never fired a gun ✔
Ready to be 'good guy with a gun' ✔
aksptth
(68 posts)Though I knew some States were loosey-goosey with their policy.
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)You can order the stuff from Walmart online and have it shipped to your home. Much safer. Also, if you get a wide-screen TV, premium cable channels, and a DVD player, you can watch tons of great movies and sports while avoiding the risks of getting into a gunfight at a movie theater or sporting event.
Unless, of course, the idea of getting into a gunfight gets you all hot. Then you should become a mercenary and get paid for it.
NoMoreRepugs
(12,051 posts)here in Orlando on Saturday (?) - the message was that there has been a marked increase in break ins to autos parked outside - the officer reminded us to be sure to remove our guns from the car so they wouldn't be stolen...
yes- 'Merica has gone over the edge
1939
(1,683 posts)What are the stats about open carry people shooting or killing anyone in stores?
I haven't open carried since Vietnam, but open carry doesn't bother me all that much.
KT2000
(22,137 posts)what the intentions are? It is usually a misfit who would open carry inside a store and those are the ones most likely to start shooting people. How do you know they are not there to shoot their old girlfriend or ex-wife who works there? If someone confronts him - what is his temperament for dealing with that? Shoot the person?
Mass shootings are becoming normal and this belligerent behavior of open carry is a sign of a decline in social behavior.
My sister who was involved in a mass shooting in a mall told me she would drop everything and leave the store immediately if she saw a person wearing a weapon (other than law enforcement). Also, her first thought always is to protect the children who may be with her.
We are allowing a future of bullying with weapons to become normal and excuses paves the way.
Straw Man
(6,943 posts)A "misfit"? Is that a legal classification? A medical one? Tell us more about "misfits" and how we can spot them and neutralize them before they "start shooting people."
I think you'll find that people who enter an establishment to do harm either have their weapon concealed or they have it out and are using it. Element of surprise, you see.
Township75
(3,535 posts)!
Jerry442
(1,265 posts)Red stores have bacon, beer, and guns. Blue stores have kale, chardonnay, and metal detectors.
NJCher
(43,108 posts)is funny.
If I could rec a post, I'd rec this!
Cher
p.s. as long as I'm posting, I might as well say this. I don't get these gun people. Guns are just not interesting, so to have one, a person has to read up on them or educate themselves in some way about them. One would have to even entertain the idea of taking another person's life. Yeah, you would.
Well, I would fall asleep doing that consumer research. I can't even imagine taking any of my time doing something like that.
Kilgore
(1,819 posts) 
jalan48
(14,914 posts)I get really pissed when I see this stuff.
I get angry when I see people being irresponsible, but I saw nothing in the OP message about that. So why would you get angry?
jalan48
(14,914 posts)I get angry when I go in a store and see one of these jackasses carrying guns like this.
You already said that you get angry when you see these jackass's, I'm just curious why?
jalan48
(14,914 posts)It's not necessary and it scares kids especially. Understand?
No need to come off like that, I was just attempting to understand.
jalan48
(14,914 posts)It's the holidays. What's the point of strutting around carrying a gun in a public place? That's how I feel when I see it. It's a form of intimidation and bullying, which I abhor.
Response to jalan48 (Reply #121)
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TalkingDog
(9,001 posts)and that you will not shop there as long as this policy is in place. Get your friends who shop there to call too.
The manager can do nothing.
joanbarnes
(2,118 posts)
jwirr
(39,215 posts)issue for me comes down to this: So I run into someone carrying a gun - especially some of the rifles that you see slung over their shoulders. Exactly how do I know what they are doing? Should I call the cops because I think the person is going to shot up the place or should I ignore it and end up in the middle of a mass shooting?
Years ago it would have been clear that the person was trouble because no one was allowed to carry a gun openly but today who knows?
stage left
(3,300 posts)just want to scare people. I can see no either reason for it. Sorry you had this disturbing experience.
malaise
(295,814 posts)and like you I'd be really angry. Nice to see you. Happy Holidays
Moral Compass
(2,386 posts)I truly sympathize with you. I think the idea of the average citizen--especially those who want to open carry--just wandering around with a handgun is lunacy.
My intention is to leave any establishment where someone is openly carrying and take my money with me. I will then follow that with a letter and a phone call informing that business that until they forbid the carrying of guns on their premises that I will no longer patronize them.
If enough people do that business will get the message--although it will take time.
Those that want to go everywhere with a gun strapped to them are a tiny, tiny minority. Why they're winning this fight right now is because we're not fighting back.
Fight back. Do what you did, but write that letter and let them know your money goes elsewhere until there aren't armed men and women wandering around their business.
christx30
(6,241 posts)I know seeing a weapon on someone you don't trust can be frightening. It sucks that people feel the need to display them.
My wife's brother wore a weapon on his hip at my kids' birthday party this summer. I wasn't scared, but I was offended. I didn't speak to him during the party.
SandersFTW
(13 posts)Maybe if the police weren't so under funded/trained and under staffed people wouldn't feel as large of a need to have a firearm on their person.
I see that as the root of the problem. I can say though that I have never had a bad encounter with people who were carrying. Most of them if you ask them about it are more than willing to talk about why they decided to carry and seem nice. *shrug*.
Kingofalldems
(40,264 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #131)
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Hoyt
(54,770 posts)into their pants.
peace13
(11,076 posts)I understand how you feel. I am sorry that you had to witness this. We have seen too much in this country. Hug your grandkids and remember to breathe.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)The South is not the only place where guns are found carried in Walmart.
Man Threatening Wal-Mart Customers Shot, Killed by Police
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/man-guns-machete-shot-killed-pa-wal-mart-35741003
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Is to prohibit the carrying of guns on private property open to the public (excluding property owner) unless explicitly granted by the property owner.
This would change it from guns being allowed in stores unless a "no guns" sign explicitly posted to guns being prohibited in stores unless a "guns allowed" sign is explicitly posted.
Then we wouldn't have a bunch of businesses dodging the issue by posting nothing and I would plainly be able to see where not to shop.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I'd rather know who's packing.
niyad
(132,223 posts)section of my supermarket, I talked to the manager, and complained to corporate. Explained that I know this is an open carry state, but this does not make me happy at all. I really wanted to ask that young man if he was afraid that the tomatoes were going to attack him.
Response to cynatnite (Original post)
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Hekate
(100,133 posts)mountain grammy
(29,009 posts)how very lame, how very cowardly.. in a state with less than a million people. WTF are you skeered of?
kiva
(4,373 posts)It's even the 'wild west.' But I almost never see it and would not hesitate to leave a store if someone walked in open carrying.
I grew up in a family that hunted, I have siblings who own guns and know a couple of sport shooters. I'm a 60 year old woman who is living in a city with a higher than average crime rate, in a neighborhood that has seen several shootings in a one mile radius in the last two years and I don't own a gun.
At this point in my life I consider most gun owners (for "protection"
to be somewhere on a range between paranoid and cowardly people who are endangering the lives of people around them, including children.
mountain grammy
(29,009 posts)
glinda
(14,807 posts)A person is a fool to not be upset or feel threatened when a gun is near in such circumstances. This person has big insecurities and preys off of people that do not feel they have to "show" off guns or "show power". No one unarmed can defend themselves unless they join the mind think of the NRA.
You had a normal and healthy reaction imho.
I am sorry that this happened to you and your family.
Try to destress and maybe change where you shop.
Guns kill. That is their purpose.
Gloria
(17,663 posts)Texas Canyon rest stop....there was a guy, lolling about by a HUGE pickup truck...with 2 (!) silver guns hanging off him...
A woman was with him.
My heart skipped a beat...I come from the East and although I've been in NM for 15 years, this was the first time in my life I saw guns out in public.
I really made me very uneasy...VERY uneasy....
zentrum
(9,870 posts)…so long as he was not wearing a turban or walking while being non-white. Isn't that the NRA/RW's position on this?
Sounds like a scary experience. Sorry.
santafe52
(57 posts)to be a mass murderer. If you see one, get the hell out of the area as quickly as possible and report them to the authorities as a potential SUSPECT.
I will NEVER do business with ANYONE who allows guns on their premises. WE have to stop this insanity! Nobody else can do it.
Response to santafe52 (Reply #170)
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marble falls
(71,872 posts)Response to marble falls (Reply #210)
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marble falls
(71,872 posts)Response to marble falls (Reply #215)
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Paladin
(32,354 posts)cstanleytech
(28,461 posts) Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...calling the authorities on them more than once will probably get you a visit from those selfsame authorities. I don't like open carry at all, but potentially "SWAT-ing" someone is a truly horrible thing to do.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)anyone where I live. They don't care.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Not here in Portland, though. While Oregon law permits open carry, it also allows local jurisdictions to ban the practice (the only exception to Oregon's state-level preemption for gun laws). Portland does just that. So a 911 call about someone openly carrying a holstered gun might very well get a response.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I think he was carrying a long gun, and a camera, waiting for a police response based on Portland's ordinance.
I recall it not ending well for him. (A misdemeanor ticket, I think.)
hack89
(39,181 posts)Would you feel bad about it? Would you spice up your 911 call to ensure the cops did something?
Tortmaster
(382 posts)... a person who isn't much evolved from playing video games. Most of all, though, it is selfishness. I wrote a post about how selfish gun owners are. Hint: Almost as bad as Republicans, worse than Harley riders. Here it is:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/5/1444228/-The-Selfishness-Spectrum-A-Gun-Safety-Argument
I haven't run into an open carry situation, but I will call the police if I do.
the_phantom_dennis
(28 posts)A little good news at the end, though
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)the_phantom_dennis
(28 posts)As a Hillary supporter, I might not be here long, though.
Duppers
(28,469 posts)If person carrying AK47 or grenade launcher would walk near them? Or even someone carrying an unsheathed 5' sword?
Just curious, what biblebelt state do you live in?
Thanks.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)number two it's probably because the state you live in allows (completely legal) people to walk around with loaded weapons out in the open ...you will have to check the laws in your state...for example ...in missouri it's completely legal to walk around with loaded assault weapons in public.....not only this but there are 25,000 gun laws on the books state to state....and this is because the NRA has lobbied politicians over the decades to have "carte blanche gun rights"; so that bureaucracies charged with enforcing very stupid laws even refuse to do that...because they are so stupid....there are sheriff's offices that won't enforce laws on the books in many counties....so you have to vote out the politicians that were only too happy to bend over for the NRA.....if you care......btw....Walmart has reduced the number of stores that sell weapons by a third...this has happened while HRC is on their board....she is stepping up her action on gun control with the white house administration...so I imagine that more gun departments in walmarts will be closing in the future....SCOTUS just threw out an NRA appeal on a new jersey ban on assault weapons...if you want sensible universal gun laws instead of the clusterfk of laws the NRA has been allowed to get away with....look up on the internet in your state and see who has voted with the NRA, who takes money from the NRA and don't vote for them...(hint they are mostly GOP) however in the south they are also dems...so make sure that politicians in your state get the message that you and your friends are voting them out if they aren't for universal gun laws/gun control......you can also find out if your state allows it's police dept to put gun that it captures from other crimes sells them to gun dealers putting them out on the streets...many do...the hypocrisy is unbelievable.....I know this won't make you feel better...but your actions voting will make a difference...Cheers, to you Maggie
romanic
(2,841 posts)but I've never got the appeal of open carry except to "look tough" and scare people. Sadly I think your response if what guys that love to carry their piece want. They want people to fear them because without their OC, no one would be afraid of them.
Person 2713
(3,263 posts)
Jack-o-Lantern
(1,020 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I've never understood this meme either. Do you often point your penis at things you wish to destroy or punch holes in?
You might be using it wrong.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts) Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)You had your values shaken by someone crossing an unwritten line in the sand: not to threaten deadly violence in a family environment.
Bullies compensate their personal discomfort by making everyone feel worse than they feel themselves. This overcompensating misfit must have had a lot of issues to want to make a large establishment like Walmart collectively miserable.
And those issues alone should inforrm us that he should not have weapons at all. "Masculinity" comes from being secure as a person. It does not come from the barrel of a gun.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)deafskeptic
(463 posts)I remember seeing someone openly carrying a rifle (most likely the kind used for hunting from the looks) in downtown Richmond VA many years ago. I'm not easily rattled, but I thought it prudent to get out of the area just in case. I didn't think it likely I'd get shot but I thought it smart to get out asap anyway.
I don't come from a military background like you but your experience made me think something about that gun carrying man's attitude must have unnerved you and I think I'd have been far alarmed in this situation than I was in downtown Richmond.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Gross, I know, but it's reality here.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Bettie
(19,664 posts)think Mommy's gun is a toy and kill another kid.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)call 911 and report a suspicious person (with brief description) with a gun at x location and hang up.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)And the cops to report someone that isn't breaking the law? 
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)TeddyR
(2,493 posts)But 911 wasn't designed to field a bunch of calls about people who aren't breaking the law, and the cops aren't there to respond to your complaints about someone who isn't breaking the law.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)get called in just for walking in a suburban white neighborhood.
And yes if you are carrying a gun to the grocery store you are suspicious in my opinion. Deal with it.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)I've already stated I oppose open carry. But if you think it is ok to call 911 on every person you find "suspicious" then have at it. I find your irrational fear silly myself.
Response to MillennialDem (Reply #236)
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hack89
(39,181 posts)that would make you happy?
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)lol
7962
(11,841 posts)because you know it would be a waste of police time & you'd be told so?
UCmeNdc
(9,655 posts)Then the police arrive...........
Pity any bystanders in that mess.......
Contrary1
(12,629 posts)You really had to be there. This woman was probably in her early to mid 20's. Her holster hung several inches below her really short cut-off jeans. Not sure what she was trying to say with the outfit, other than she looked like an idiot.
Have to admit, I laughed at the whole picture...from a respectable distance, of course. Wouldn't want to be one of those "stand your ground" victims.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Should we say she wish she had one? Or that she wants to be "schlonged"? Would that be sexist? I'm so confused!
Angel Martin
(942 posts)n/t
Lunabell
(7,309 posts)They're fixing to legalize it here in Florida. It really scares me.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The lesson I think that came out of that is if one person doesn't seem like they are listening or give a damn then find one who does. It seems like the first person (the way you put it she may not have been a manager) kind of blew you off (no pun intended).
I am from Oregon and and open carry is only permitted in rural areas. I actually grew up in a rural area, but have been outside the US for the better part of 11 years now. If I ran into a situation like that I think it would freak me out as well.
mwb970
(12,148 posts)I do not want to be around people who feel the need to carry lethal force at a Walmart. I would suspect that such a person has mental or emotional issues that make him a danger to me and my family. There are other stores, but people don't just pick up "other children" when theirs are shot dead by some right-wing loon in a store.
Bettie
(19,664 posts)People who feel the need to be armed 24/7 tend toward either paranoia or a belief that they are entitled to shoot if they "feel" threatened. If they are scared enough to carry a gun everywhere, I suspect that their fear sensors are set very low and will feel threatened if someone reaches for the same box of cereal as they do.
Plus, given how many people I know with poor impulse control, I simply avoid people who feel the need to openly carry their fears in a holster.
hueymahl
(2,904 posts)And the world is a tough place sometimes.
I'm sorry you feel so bad.
Nateforrest
(1 post)Would your response be different if the man was Police Officer Johannes Mehserle, Officer Jason Porter, Officer Mark Slager, or Officer Darren Wilson? Or the dozen plus police officers needlessly killing family dogs (even a Chihuahua) during "no knock" drug raids on wrong addresses in the last few years.
My point is you seem to be okay with police officers carrying firearms, but there were massive protests surrounding the firearm-related deaths caused by each of the named police officers (sadly no one protests over dead pets).
If we are going to disarm people, we must start with government agents at all levels who are protected from being held accountable for irresponsible shootings by qualified immunity and the "thin blue line" mentality.
KG
(28,795 posts)
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)So you don't have to worry about the cops shooting animals or raiding Wal-Marts.
marble falls
(71,872 posts)DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)Aren't you missing a Klan meeting?
Stormfront is over there >>>>>>>
(White southern dude that served in the Union Army)
Pakid
(478 posts)Open carry should never be allowed period. Even CC carry should have very strict requirements and then it also should not be allowed in public places. The public square is not a proper place for guns ever. Drop guns can and do discharges and main or kill innocent people far to often for them to be allowed in public. And no good guys with gun don't stop bad guys with guns that pure NRA bull shit
lark
(26,068 posts)I'd feel exactly the same. It's such a crying shame when people can claim they were fearful for their lives by someone talking on a cell phone during a movie, yet we aren't allowed the same defense against people openly trying to intimidate and cause fear. I quit shopping at Walmart years ago, when they changed their policy about profit sharing right as my husband should have been able to cash in. Instead of the $7500 min. promised while Sam was alive, he got $300. Asshole Walton children are devils and we will not give them one of our dimes for any reason.
tazkcmo
(7,419 posts)the better. Open carry or not.
northoftheborder
(7,636 posts)I would have also followed up as you did by speaking to the manager about my feelings and opinion. I might have just abandoned my basket, however, and left the store without purchasing anything, depending upon how fearful I was. I live in Texas, where even college campuses are open carry now. Scary. Even the wild west had more rules.
BeyondGeography
(41,079 posts)My daughter goes to college in the South and I was driving back to the northeast. Stopped on a lazy Sunday in Nashville and poked around the flea market for a couple of hours. Rough crowd, you know. Things can get a little hairy at the retro sign stand, not to mention the lady with those old-timey Mason jars.
Mostly, people were trying not to pass out in the heat, and there he was, carrying in plain sight, wearing cammo shorts accompanied by his girlfriend and his muscle dog. Strutting like a pointless peacock. It would have been comical if not for the kill toy so when he went one way I tried to go the other.
Open carry is too stupid for words.
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)
Hopefully these helped out a little.
frizzled
(509 posts)Your enjoyment of public space and shopping is actively harmed by a threatening display and by the risk that an idiot will shoot you.
Guns corrode freedom and tranquility in the United States. You can't enjoy a national park without the risk of intercepting a rifle bullet. You can't feel completely safe at work. Schools do obscene "drills for active shooters", to say that the occasional mass murder is simply what children must expect.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
I defy anyone to identify a single purpose for which the United States of America was founded, that is upheld by widespread, unlimited ownership of weapons of mass murder.
kimbutgar
(27,234 posts)My 23 year son who is autistic is with us. He likes to take pictures and at a store he was told not to take pictures. He started to meltdown. I told him we are in Arizona not California and he could get shot. Just when I said this a guy came towards us and I saw he had his gun hostler on him. My husband just then walked in the store and we got our son out the store. The whole time this guy had his hand on his gun watching us! I'm a bit nervous to go out with my son now because he gets overwhelmed at times and some crazy might not understand his disability if he starts whining and high pitched.
denvine
(856 posts)I would have done the exact same thing, although I wouldn't have been in a Walmart in the first place, but that is not the point. I would do the same thing in any business and let them know why I am not returning. Hitting them in the pocketbook is the only language they understand. I'm sorry you had to come to this decision this way, especially with your grandchildren with you.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I also cannot stand open carry BS. I won't shop at Wal-Mart for that reason... and many others.
Fortunately, all our candidates are openly for additional regulation of guns... and it's all but guaranteed that a Dem will be elected... especially if their nominee is trump (pronounced: Chump).
I think people are starting to wake up. It's only a matter of time before they are more firmly regulated... we just need to keep the pressure up.
Have a merry Christmas! 
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)But what about giving the guy the fish-eye and muttering "asshole" loud enough so everyone can hear?
Open carry into a Walmart is clearly a deliberate social transgression (where open carry in some other context would not necessarily be). Dickwads who indulge in recreational transgression tend -- in my experience -- to be sensitive to scorn if it comes from peers (in this case fellow Walmart shoppers).
To test this out, however, requires overlooking the fact that someone whose good sense you already question is packing heat and might react dangerously.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You know what's more dangerous? Leaving it in the car. I would MUCH rather that gun be on the hip of a law-abiding citizen, than left in the car in the parking lot.
Not knowing that person's history, situation, or daily itinerary, maybe they are carrying for no reason connected to the store whatsoever?
I live within a 5 minute walk of a national forest that contains genuine predators. I also live a 10 minute walk from Safeway. We have daily cougar sightings. If I carry a gun on that route, where do I leave it while inside Safeway?
That person might be an off duty officer. They're supposed to carry.
Might be a retired police officer. Most carry. Op called the guy fat, maybe concealed carry is uncomfortable? Maybe a physical disability to boot that makes concealment impossible to deal with?
A lot of possibilities that don't involve the person being an asshole.
I judge people with weapons based on how they behave. That's the litmus test. Just like a judge people who either aren't carrying a gun, or *might* be carrying a gun concealed. How do they behave? That's where probable cause for brandishing might come from.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)The fact that they have weapons. I may apply other criteria on second look, but sheer survival impulse means the first thing I have to evaluate is why the person has a weapon at all.
All of the scenarios you cited are possible (if somewhat far-fetched), and can generally be read from context. However, this thread is about a garden variety jackass carrying weapons specifically because it upsets people.
For such people, the word "asshole" is hardly too strong.
P.S.: Anyone who can't figure out how to secure their firearm without having to carry it on their person shouldn't have a firearm.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)pistol that way. Left it in his personal car, while he was police chief here in Seattle. Who knows what mischief that pistol has been used for. (Not on his wiki page, casualty of a couple edit wars on some riots he bungled.)
I agree, it should be possible for a reasonably intelligent person to secure a firearm in a car. Should be. Social track record isn't great though.
We look at people, fundamentally differently. (Granted, I carry more for the four-legged predators, than the two-legged variety that never bother me anyway)
Bonx
(2,353 posts)and might land yourself in a confrontation you precipitated.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)The doing of which still makes you an asshole.
However, I don't disagree that you might piss the guy off. One would have to decide whether it was worth doing.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Boy, you've led a sheltered life.
I can never tell when it's ok to belittle fat people around here. I wish there was a handy flowchart or something.
Maybe you saw an off-duty cop?
This is a cop:
Or was a cop. A holstered weapon isn't threatening behavior. The shit the cop I just posted a picture of, THAT is threatening behavior.
roamer65
(37,945 posts)with concealed carry permits.
I own handguns, but there really is no reason to haul them around on your body everywhere in our society, unless you have a very specific reason for doing so.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)if people are running around with police type handguns, open or concealed, they should have to undergo police type training and periodic requalifying.
I would support shall issue on that basis (plus background check etc)
I wouldn't carry myself, but i can understand for people with sales routes or other jobs etc. where they can't avoid bad neighbourhoods.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I train more than your average police officer does, but no training is required in my state. I dig training.
And that training shouldn't just be 'hit what I shoot', it should be 'is it legal and moral to shoot', after a preliminary course in 'is it legal and moral to even brandish in this situation'.
I'm down with that.
And I like the comment about Shall Issue, and then leave 'untrained' applications a 'May Issue'. That's actually brilliant. Good call.
Response to roamer65 (Reply #264)
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Squinch
(59,450 posts)And then talk about how he is very careful not to let a shopping cart bump "escalate" into a problem that would need him to pull out his gun.
So I guess I am making your point about the CC idiots.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)it can be before some swarthy, rightwing, potbellied white guy with black hair has a shoot out with some pasty, rightwing, potbellied white guy with blond hair becasue the latter thinks the former is a terrorist?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)
msrizzo
(796 posts)But I do often wonder what my reaction would be if I saw this. Probably very much like yours, I'm sure. I don't like guns and I don't know why people have to carry them openly in public. I look at it this way, if we live in a society in which police officers can say that they were afraid to strap a handcuffed Freddy Gray into a safety belt, then how the heck am I, a person that never even saw a real gun excect holstered in a police officer's belt supposed to feel about seeing strangers with openly accessible guns? It just seems reckless, dangerous, and yes scary, to me. I completely sympathize with you.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)Of nothing.
That's what it boils down to.
A guy had a gun on his belt. He wasn't waving it around, or brandishing it. If you hadn't seen it you would have been none the wiser.
So HE is the problem. Not you, and your unnatural, unwarranted terror and fear of a firearm.
Yeah, it's HIS fault you are terrified of the world.
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy
(58 posts)Carrying them concealed doesn't have quite the same effect, so the political push for some time now has been for "open carry".
Carrying guns concealed does achieve some of the same effect, to the extent that the public is aware that it is allowed and that one can never be sure who might have a gun on their person.
But displaying them is the quickest and most sure-fire way to achieve the objective.
Which is?
To put you and everyone else on notice that you have no say in what goes on in the public spaces of your society, and you do not matter.
Any individual gun-carrier may think they are "exercising their rights" (when was that ever a reason to do something??), or being prepared in case somebody tries to take their stuff, or being a good sheepdog who is ready to single-handedly stop the next gun massacre.
But the ideology that is behind it, the ideology of the organizations that have instilled all those notions in each of those individuals, is the ideology of the right wing, and it is the right wing's insatiable thirst for control that drives the movement.
A gun displayed in a public place has the effect of impressing on you that you do not matter, your children do not matter, your safety and security and rights do not matter. (Just as does the bit of the ideology that says that dead children are the price of the gun lovers' freedom. If we mattered, we would not be defined as payment for anything, let alone something we have not chosen to sacrifice ourselves for and in fact oppose.)
When Robert Heinlein said that an armed society was a polite society, what he was really saying was that an armed society is a terrorized society.
That you felt terrorized is not a personal quirk, it is the intended effect of what you observed, whether that particular Mr. Open Carry would assert that as his intention or not.
Response to MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy (Reply #285)
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Response to cynatnite (Original post)
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Hoyt
(54,770 posts)DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)should go see a therapist. I would say the same thing if it were dogs she was terrified of. I see no reason why a person open carrying a gun should go see a therapist.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)2/3rds, don't. To see them outside of movies or TV is unusual and intimidating, particularly when held by someone or strapped to their person.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)8.6% have former felony convictions and cannot legally own a gun.
23.3% are under 18.
So, about 1/3 CANNOT own a gun. So your 'don't own a gun' number is really closer to 50% or less of the eligible population.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)The point being, gun owners are a minority in this country, not a majority.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Sadly, without registration, we don't know much about the firearm owning populace.
(A thing we kinda need to fix, for a variety of very good reasons.)
It's possible the number is that low, and the number of people who hunt is also down, which SUGGESTS a correlation, but I wouldn't call that number reliable without some sort of additional verification.
About 9.5 million people have concealed pistol licenses, but I couldn't even guess if that represents anywhere from 4m to 15m households.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)places, but urban dwelling people are far less likely to own guns than rural or suburban people, thank goodness.
ON EDIT: Though, honestly, if I were to assume anything it would be that people are over reporting, it seems, at least from the conduct of DU's gun rights activists, that they like to brag about their guns, when they carry them, etc. Some people may falsely report they have a gun in the home in the belief that it may deter burglars, similar to fake home alarm signs.
Waldorf
(654 posts)the children out of the total (they aren't old enough to own firearms) then it appears half the adult population owns a firearm.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)and self-defense is not a big concern of mine. Yahoos toting in public are a concern.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)of the data.
According to the surveys I linked, its 1/3rd of adults in America who own guns. That would be quite a bit less than a 100 million.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/06/gun-owners-study-one-in-three
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 23, 2015, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)
that it is irrational. I don't think it is irrational for someone to be concerned about some yahoo carrying a gun in public.
?6
DLevine
(1,791 posts)without carrying a gun, they need some serious psychiatric help.
MsJaneFuzzyWuzzy
(58 posts)in order to try to make a point.
The OP was not distressed by the sight of a gun ("common legal object" .
I think the OP made that plain: her household has guns.
The OP was distressed by an activity: a gun being displayed by a customer at a busy store where she was shopping with children, where families commonly shop.
It really is not common for people to display guns on their persons in busy department stores, surrounded by families and children. None of the dozens or hundreds of other people in the store seems to have been doing that, and the OP had evidently not seen this done at any time in the past, although she shops at this store regularly.
This makes the activity, by definition, not common.
Probably there are things that would distress you if you saw someone doing them in a busy department store. If you spotted someone masturbating in the pet food aisle and were distressed enough to speak to the manager and post about it at DU, I would hope that no one would suggest you see a therapist since you appear to be distressed by a perfectly natural human activity.
(Probably necessary disclaimer: Masturbating in public and displaying a firearm in public are not offered as being analogous on any basis other than that both are activities that many people do not expect to see going on at WalMart and would be distressed by. The fact that one might be legal and one not is completely irrelevant to the appropriateness of either, or the distress that either might cause.)
Squinch
(59,450 posts)see a therapist.
I think they should explore the reasons why they feel the need to show an instrument of dominance in a situation in which dominance is completely unnecessary.
I think they should explore why they feel they have so little power and control over their lives that they need to make a display of power and control, based on an object outside of themselves, to people they don't even know.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)but I've already decided if it does, I will leave the establishment, notify management, and refuse to give them my business until they change their policy. In addition, I will write a letter to the Editor, and post the experience on social media.
Having said that, I do most of my shopping online due to health problems. Try to make it to the grocery store a couple of times a month, but usually my niece does the shopping for me.
The NRA has a "no guns allowed" policy at their headquarters and gatherings for a reason. Who am I to argue with the "experts"?
I'm a 70 year old gun owner, but have never felt the need to open carry.
So sorry you had such an unnerving experience. Hope the rest of your holidays are happy, healthy, and peaceful.
mnhtnbb
(33,333 posts)I ever encounter an open carry person in a store, I will go right to the front of the store...leave my basket...
and tell the manager I'm leaving because I refuse to shop in a store that allows people to come in openly
carrying guns.
I am not willing to put myself in that situation. Period.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)For a while, I went to this 24 hour diner, off and on, for a couple of years, got to know the owner a little bit, got to know the employees, etc. No biggie.
Anyways, so I was in there, sitting at the counter when the owner came in to relieve one of his employees, so he goes behind the counter and removes his jacket and there, in a shoulder holster, is a handgun. It was, I thought, a weird holster, the gun was upside down and strapped around his shoulder to his back. He turned to help another customer, and here I was, eating a burger and staring down the barrel of a handgun, I didn't know holster were open in the front. To say I was intimidated was understating it, all I was thinking was "Please don't go off, please don't go off." Just repeating that in my head. I actually had the courage to ask him about it, and he said that he always carries it. I knew he had a small flyer/plaque thing about 2a rights, but I didn't think anything further about it.
I still went back after that, he seems like an ok guy, but one night I came in, and he apparently covered 3 shifts in a row because he didn't want to close the business and was barely cognizant. Knowing he was mostly likely armed, I thought it best to go elsewhere.
crim son
(27,552 posts)to kill Mr. Open Carry, under Stand Your Ground laws. In any case I completely understand your horror and though I have not been subjected to any open carry idiots, I'd do as you did and leave the area immediately. You don't have to be a criminal to shoot somebody intentionally or by mistake and I have serious reservations about the sort of person who thinks it's a good idea to display their weapon in a public place i.e. wtf is wrong with them.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)And that would be murder. Feel free to test it yourself.
DissidentVoice
(813 posts)I've thought of pushing the envelope and getting a Scottish claymore (ancient sword) and carrying that openly.
After all, the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify just guns!
And why is it legal to carry a Dirty Harry cannon when switchblade knives are illegal?
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Because it makes people uncomfortable and serves no purpose. Stil, it is legal in many states and I don't get bent out of shape about someone legally carrying a holstered firearm.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)reason by way of intellect so they choose violence. If you look at them funny they WILL shoot you. It's just more intimidation and violenc in America.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Fuck the 2ndA assholes. If they can't go into a store without their guns, then they are a bunch of chicken shits. No one should have to put up with a stupidly armed gun nut. Walmart puts their lives in danger by allowing guns inside the store.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Their feelings are hurt?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)are white wing racists. I realize businesses that are fine with serving people -- where the vast majority are white wing racist yahoos -- wouldn't keep me around. Luckily, I'm fortunate to work where employees and customers aren't likely to walk around with gunz, much less spend inordinate time fantasizing about them when at home.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)"White wing racist" issue. Do you think "white wing racists" commit the most murders? If so you are misinformed.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Go to a gun show, gun store, or range. Look around.
Here is a photo from one of gunners' favorite instructors where white wingers go to learn how to shoot people:
Here's sentiment of typical gun store:
I've got more, including photos from Cliven Bundy's militia gathering. All armed up white wingers.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)particularly those who tote and train to shoot people.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)FTFY
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)toter for killing power, rehearse what to say if they pull a Zman, congregate with those like them, etc. Those photos represent the majority of gun fanciers.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...the rest of us are not required to agree.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)Have you always lived in, Georgia, if I recall correctly? You paint with a broad brush and seem to classify all gun owners as bubbas who belong to militias who put on fatigues and run around the woods with guns on weekends.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)militia wannabes who act like we live in a war zone. But most don't belong to militias. Since the majority of gun "enthusiasts" - not talking about someone with a gun or two at Home for hunting and maybe self-defense - are right wingers, there are a lot of racists strutting around with guns.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)you put all gun owners into the category of Zimmerman.
You consistently show photos of militias and compare them to all gun owners on DU who support RKBA.
Are you backtracking now?
What's the deal?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)AT HOME. I think I'm on target with the vast majority of toters, accumulators, Gun profiteers and 2nd A promoters.
Snobblevitch
(1,958 posts)You take every opportunity to insult everyone on DU who is a gun owner and pro-RKBA. You sterotype all gun owners. You accused me of being a "toter" just yesterday when you know I do not have a CCW permit.
DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)That Massad Ayoob is not a white guy?
I'm sure that fact is something you just accidently left out.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Also helped folks like racist George Zimmerman beat his murder charge.
Massad Ayoob is of Arab descent. His grandparents immigrated to America in the latter part of the 19th century.
States that on his wiki page. You posted a picture of a person of color and accused him of training white racists.
I'm sure you thought nobody would notice.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)DashOneBravo
(2,679 posts)But he is not a white guy.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Paladin
(32,354 posts)Chemisse
(31,339 posts)Expect me to NOT be afraid that they are going to randomly use that gun.
Indydem
(2,642 posts)How many times has an open carry person just decided to start killing people?
I'll wait breathlessly for your answer.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)can clearly see differently.
IronLionZion
(51,207 posts)and all hell will break loose. The open carry folks want to show off their big hard phallic toys. The concealed carry folks have been fantasizing about wild west stories. If an open carry dude has a tan and a beard it won't go well for him.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)Of hard phallic fantasies amongst those who want to ban guns.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)angryvet
(181 posts)and speaking out!
ladjf
(17,320 posts)bullimiami
(14,075 posts)30+ years ago, working in a pizza parlor in miami, we used to have a customer come in strapped with his 6 guns and a cowboy hat.
Also a very big guy.
Way before concealed carry was in vogue.
We also had lots of cops come in.
They saw him with his guns and it was perfectly legal, just crazy, as long as they were licensed and visible.
Response to cynatnite (Original post)
moondust This message was self-deleted by its author.
Vinca
(53,946 posts)the good guy with a gun from the bad guy with the gun. We are expected to assume the idiot we see grocery shopping with his AK is a good guy. Why? A rational person looks at him and the first thought is "he's nuts." My suggestion is always "no guns," but in lieu of that, here's another suggestion. How about gun owners who want to cart their weapons around like handbags be subjected to a very thorough mental examination and then, to put the rest of the public at ease, get a giant "GG" (good guy) tattooed on their foreheads. Silly, of course, but how else can you tell good from bad?
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Response to cynatnite (Original post)
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Kingofalldems
(40,264 posts)
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)icymist
(15,888 posts)Oh wait! That was changed when Charlton Heston got a hold of it!
See?! No harm in letting a gun-nut play Moses.
Vinca
(53,946 posts)That's the crux of the problem. There's no way to tell the good guys with a gun from the bad guys with a gun. If I see someone armed like Rambo at the grocery store, I pretty much figure they must be a lunatic. If I'm not afraid of the artichokes, he or she shouldn't be either. Leave the damn gun in the car if you can't leave it at home for a brief trip to the store. Chances are probably more likely you'll be struck by lightening while being chased by a shark than coming under attack in the cat food aisle at the supermarket.
Paladin
(32,354 posts)If a person isn't satisfied with concealed carry, if they feel compelled to open carry a firearm in public, they're giving evidence of a twisted set of emotional values. Resorting to open carry shows a departure from legitimate defense of self and loved ones; open carriers are interested in 1.) public intimidation, and 2.) hope for armed confrontation with somebody. Given how things are going in this country with gun-related violence, there is no reason to trust persons who resort to open carry. No reason whatsoever. The brighter lights in the pro-gun movement have caught on to this---witness all the "I'm a Second Amendment believer, but open carry gives me troubles" posts you see around here. Spare us any further demands to "start to be more intellectual," OK? Open carry is based on a lot of impulses, but intellect sure as hell isn't one of them. Enjoy your stay.
moondust
(21,284 posts)Maybe if everybody called the police and reported a suspicious character who might be a terrorist or mass murderer roaming around in the store with a gun, police would get tired of answering those calls and the gunners would either get shot or get tired of the confrontations and leave their guns at home.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)911 and the police would be tied up in false-alarm calls where nobody is committing a crime at all instead of tending to those who really need help.
moondust
(21,284 posts)callers wouldn't really know if it's a false alarm or a credible threat to the public. That's for police to determine.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)would ask the paranoid caller if the person with the gun was threatening anyone - before they raced to the scene.
I'd like people calling 911 and making false reports, based on their personal issues and ignorance of the law fined.
moondust
(21,284 posts)usually make threats before they open fire, thereby allowing their targets to flee before anything bad happens?
Response to cynatnite (Original post)
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liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)weapons until the moment they plan on shooting. In fact I had a friend tell me a few days ago that a murderer would probably walk right past a person who is openly carrying, wait until their back is turned, pull out their weapon and then fire. It's not like a murderer is going to call out the person open carrying and have a shoot out like at the OK Corral. Some of these fools have a major Old West cowboy fantasy complex going on.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I would say your panic does not match the gravity of the situation. Get ready to see a lot more people open carrying, it seems the South likes the idea of us all carrying deathsticks on our sides.
Is legal in many places outside the South. For example, open carry is legal in Maine, Vermont and Washington.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Yee Ha!
Squinch
(59,450 posts)they typically don't allow loaded guns at gun shows. I think they know their customers.
Which is why I don't think the fear is misplaced. I wouldn't want to trust my safety to the mindset of someone who fears the mortal dangers of Walmart.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)The open carrying of firearms is increasingly becoming a favorite tool among the RKBA crowd to strengthen the gun culture perverting this country.
For some, it's all about the look. They want to appear big and tough, and the pistol on their hip or the rifle over their shoulder is a fashion accessory of sorts.
Others are hoping you'll come up to them and make a comment about them openly parading around a lethal weapon. They already have their little speech on the 2nd Amendment and about how 'a right unexercised is a right lost' memorized inside and out.
They've gone so far as openly carry rifles in stores and restaurants for the sake of trying to proselytize.
Openly carrying a firearm is not very pragmatic when it comes to self defense. If a criminal wants to rob a bank or a store or simply go on a shooting spree, the people who are obviously armed would be the first to get shot. Then again, it's not about self defense, but about using confrontation and intimidation to make a political statement and propagate their gun culture further.
Paladin
(32,354 posts)Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Apparently the name of the store confused him
Vinca
(53,946 posts)which it is - I'd call the police just as soon as I'd taken my business elsewhere.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...that open carry is a poor choice, I have to point out that his finger isn't on the trigger. It's alongside and slightly above the trigger guard, not through it...which is exactly what one is supposed to do.
But again, open carry anywhere outside the shooting range or hunting (or in rural areas where it's common and accepted) is stupid.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Vinca
(53,946 posts)Most people not totally familiar with the firearm would think it was on the trigger. So if I go into the restaurant and that's what I believe, I suppose if I happened to be armed I'd be inclined to shoot him. This is the craziness that has been created by the insane gun culture in this country. Two losers can't go to the local diner for a cup of coffee unless they look like they're ready to storm Omaha Beach. And somehow we're supposed to know they're the "good guys."
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)If not, there's your answer...
Vinca
(53,946 posts)The person could be robbing the place or half a nut and suddenly jerk back and you're dead. You have no way of knowing until it's too late.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Don't get me wrong, I think open carry is inappropriate under most circumstances-
but if it's legal, it's legal if the carrier isn't making threats or actually pointing
the muzzle at people.
Vinca
(53,946 posts)by these "he-men" who feel they must parade around with huge weapons hanging off them. I suppose as more and more businesses find customers leaving when confronted by fellows who are so insecure they apparently must carry their guns everywhere, more "No Guns Allowed" signs will appear. The only thing that makes a difference in this country anymore is money. Money has created the gun mania via the gun manufacturer's mouthpiece the NRA and money will have to stop it by not frequenting businesses that allow them in.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)if decide to carry in public (which is rare) I always carry concealed. Causes much less stress for those around me.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)
Orrex
(67,084 posts)And who can blame them? It's clearly a Chipotle, where the spirit of the Wild West lives on in poorly controlled food sanitation.
[font color="white"]Yes, I know that those aren't Desert Eagles. I just wanted to see how quickly someone would jump in to gunsplain it to me.[/font]
Squinch
(59,450 posts)See, THAT's how tough I am. I don't need no stinking open carry.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Maybe he is just a guy who got tired of anti-gun hate and dick jokes, and decided that OC was the best way to respond in kind to the bunch that is responsible for the supermajority of the articulation of such things.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Anyone remotely pro-gun is a target for anti-gun hate and dick jokes.
Its not like anyone who flings that sort of shit ever needed the excuse that the recipient carries a gun, as evidenced by numerous examples directed at pro-rkba DUers who don't carry.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Squinch
(59,450 posts)to be open carrying in Walmart other than a need to feel some power that the carrier is incapable of feeling otherwise.
I don't trust armed people who display their insecurities like that.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Your understanding is not required. Nor is your permission. Nor is your agreement. I'd get used to that, if I were you.
I don't trust people who display their insecurities by prejudging individuals whom they've never met, and presume to control them because they do things that some delicate flower might perceive as 'icky'.
As a matter of regular procedure, I don't carry a gun at all. As a matter of regular procedure, I think open carry is kind of dumb.
In general, I neither support nor oppose open carry. The sight of someone peaceably carrying a gun doesn't bother me.
However...
As a response to the anti-gun hate and dick jokes, I think open carry is uniquely fitting. Its a big, well deserved middle finger in the face to anti-gunners, which they have fairly and equitably earned.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Yep. I judge them. Because they are patently ridiculous, and they work hard to make sure that ridiculousness is on display for all to see.
If you don't want to be pre-judged because you do "icky" things, don't do icky things.
beevul
(12,194 posts)No, forcing others to live by it is. My you ARE disingenuous.
Its your opinion and you're entitled to it.
I guess that makes you the delicate flower then, doesn't it?
Nobody doing anything icky. Just things you and some others don't like or approve of. Poor you.
As I said before, if I were you, I'd get used to it.
Squinch
(59,450 posts)Are you calling me a delicate flower because you think it's a bad thing? Does the thought of being called a delicate flower make you want to strap on your gun and brave the mortal terror of the grocery store to prove you aren't delicate?
Because I don't mind being called a delicate flower. Have at it if you like. In fact, let's make that our little nickname for each other, what do you say?
Since I am certain that there will be nothing of value in continuing this conversation, I will say, have a lovely night, my delicate flower. Here are some delicate flowers for you: 
beevul
(12,194 posts)Are you calling me a delicate flower because you think it's a bad thing? Does the thought of being called a delicate flower make you want to strap on your gun and brave the mortal terror of the grocery store to prove you aren't delicate?
What part of "As a matter of regular procedure, I don't carry a gun at all" do you not understand?
What part of "As a matter of regular procedure, I think open carry is kind of dumb" do you not understand?
Or is it just disingenuousness?
Vinca
(53,946 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)What are opinions like again?
Vinca
(53,946 posts)The only time you see our side of things is when you walk into the diner and the dimwits standing there with their guns are bad guys and your brains meet the floor. Up thread I was told that's how you tell the good guys from the bad - you wait for them to shoot or not. That's kind of a dangerous game of chance if you ask me.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Judging by the language that you (and so many of your anti-gun colleagues for that matter) use, I doubt very much that 'talking sense' about guns was ever on your 'to do' list to begin with (assuming you actually do have the ability to do so, many anti-gunners don't.).
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)I always assume the person going to shoot up the place will maintain a low profile and not bring unwanted attention, but if it bothers you go shop somewhere else.