Kids clinging to minivan roof during Christmas lights tour draws outrage

[Liberal_in_LA]

http://m.sfgate.com/neighborhood/bayarea/article/Kids-clinging-to-minivan-roof-during-Christmas-6719392.php
Eyebrows are raising at a Christmas video posted online from League City, Texas.

In it, three kids ride atop a minivan as it meanders down neighborhood streets, apparently to gaze a Christmas light displays while two adults man the front seats





Spokesman for the League City Police Department told KTRK TV that various laws were probably broken, including child endangerment, but that charges couldn't be pressed because the adults couldn't be identified.

[LiberalArkie]

1. Geez, I remember riding on top of a station wagon as a kid watching the lights.

[yeoman6987]

2. No kidding. The nanny state is annoying

I feel so sorry for kids today. Can't have any fun. The car was probably going 5 miles an hour and what a sight for them. Glad they can't identify. Nosey neighbors screw it up again.

[rurallib]

28. lots of kids got injured and killed that way too

which led to laws forbidding such stuff.
You would think adults could understand how in just a split second of inattaerntion by one of those kids could end in a serious injury or death.

And, yeah, I did more than my share of riding in the back of pickups on the highway and standing in the back of cars. We may have thought it fun but it was really dangerous.

[yeoman6987]

30. Soon they will bubble wrap all the newborns

Think I'm kidding? A lot of laws would been unbelievable just a generation ago.

[beam me up scottie]

41. You like strawmen don't you?

No one advocated bubble wrapping newborns, but they do have to ride in car seats now. Is that an "unbelievable" law too?

Maybe we should go back to the good ole days, like when our neighbor's 3 yr old went through the windshield because he was standing up in the front seat when a drunk crashed into them.

[yeoman6987]

49. Over the top as always

You scenario is rare and should not I lead on everyone else's right to do as they please with their kids watching lights. These parents are the best. They will talk about this for years while other parents just put them at a disadvantage of even seeing them.

[beam me up scottie]

51. This is performance art, right?

while other parents just put them at a disadvantage of even seeing them.

Wow, you had me going. I almost thought you were serious!




And why do you think kids getting thrown through windshields is rare now?

[yeoman6987]

52. Whatever. Merry Christmas!

[beam me up scottie]

58. Seriously, why do you think kids rarely get thrown through windshields anymore?

[yeoman6987]

66. I am not saying it's a bad law at all (well maybe earlier I was)

I just think this one situation is not as dangerous as some would think. Ok yes some car could bump them and they are all dead. True! But in SOME cases I think you can assess risk with reward.

[beam me up scottie]

69. Taking a chance of launching your kids into oncoming traffic seems like a big risk to me.

When I lived in PA a little girl fell out of the back of her father's pickup and was run over by a semi.

I'll never forget the look on his face, I doubt he ever forgave himself.

[yeoman6987]

71. I doubt he did too

But reading more of this. I think they are hanging out the sunroof and not on top of the van. The pictures are so dark I really can't tell.

[beam me up scottie]

74. Watch the video, it shows them laying on top.

You can clearly see their legs.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

75. Risk versus reward? Really? It's a freaking minivan with giant windows.

It's not like they couldn't see the lights from inside the vehicle.

[Hortensis]

54. :) Right. Those kids are having a delightful little

experience, no "clinging" needed.

Rurallib, relatively speaking, "lots" of kids didn't tragically die or get eye and ear problems (I know I never knew or heard of one who did in all my years as a passenger in a pickup bed), but as our national population grew and numbers of tragedies with it, enough did to change the law. You're right overall, though.

But for someone to get upset in this case? They should sell their two-story home and move to one with no stairs and within walking distance of school and supermarket. How people who worry about this could reconcile their consciences with putting their kids in the car to drive 15 miles to a mall I can't imagine. Don't they know that's DANGEROUS? Especially those scary, deadly intersections.

[yeoman6987]

55. Yep!

Most who complain are probably those helicopter parents who smother their kids to death. When they get older the want notching to do with them. Very risky on their part if they want to have any normal relationship with their kids.

[beam me up scottie]

57. Or not. People who make up stories about others tend to project.

But do go on, I find your assumptions as amusing as your strawmen.

[GummyBearz]

63. Come on

What purpose does this post serve? You have a disagreement with that guy, but this post is just trolling him into an argument. I think it was clear he was willing to respectfully disagree based on his post #52. Be a better person

[beam me up scottie]

65. Actually it's a response to the trolling in post #55.

Most who complain are probably those helicopter parents who smother their kids to death. When they get older the want notching to do with them. Very risky on their part if they want to have any normal relationship with their kids.

I've had this kind of coversation with him before, whenever I ask for examples he just makes up more strawmen.

At least he has an active imagination, so there's that.

[Chemisse]

80. Scrolling up, I see that you are the one who got this argument going.

I always wonder about people who find it fun to pick fights with strangers on line.

[yeoman6987]

67. You don't ever take a risk? Ever?

I guess this could be risky but the rewards are great. I know it is stupid to jump out of a plane and hope the parachute opens. But I do it occasionally anyway and yes you can find stories of people DEAD doing the same thing I do.

[beam me up scottie]

70. I ride a green horse who's fallen on me twice before - last time put me in the hospital.

I kayak, I climb, I jump off cliffs into rivers, I love adrenalin rushes.

But I draw the line at carelessly risking the lives of others.

[yeoman6987]

76. Good point.

I guess I'd have to really see what was going on. Some now say they are just outside the sunroof. I can't tell cuz the pictures are so dark.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Watch the video. They were going faster than I thought too.

[Kingofalldems]

85. You got that right.

[beam me up scottie]

86. Sometimes I think I stumbled onto the wrong website.

Those libruls and their silly laws, who do they think they are?

[Hortensis]

59. Smothering/destruction of "dangerously" independent play IS

the zeitgeist of current parenting, for sure.

I suspect, though, that a lot who do this are just going along in thoughtless conformity. Like my comment on parents who ignore the real dangers, such as they are, of driving their kids around in dozens of unnecessary trips every month and instead worry about dangers about as likely as an airplane falling on them -- because "we all do."

[beam me up scottie]

56. More strawmen!

Last edited Fri Dec 25, 2015, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)

You said:

Those kids are having a delightful little experience, no "clinging" needed.

The little girl who was thrown off the car in the article I posted is dead. I guess she had a delightful little experience too, while it lasted.

[Sanity Claws]

3. Seriously?

I must have lived in a different part of the country. That sounds reckless. Some people have no sense.

[arikara]

4. When I think about how we used to drive around

and the stuff we used to do...
The parents would be behind bars and we'd be in foster care nowadays.

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

29. I remember riding around the neighborhood on someone's motorcycle

without a helmet, clinging to the driver's back, and having a great time.
I was 7, maybe 8 years old at the time.

[arikara]

88. I remember my daughter's car seat

it was a hard plastic bucket shape thing with leg holes that you plunked the kid into, and it had 2 metal pieces that just hooked over the seat. I was very progressive to have one at all. Nobody used seat belts at all in those days, kids just bounced around in the car.

My car was a pink 62 Valiant, push button automatic. I loved that beast.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. I remember riding on the back of an ambulance

like fire fighters did as well at one time. Yup, it was thrilling, but it was stupid. This is stupid.

There are many things we did that were quite unnecessary risks. It is not about getting people into bubble wrap, but some of the stuff we all did was stupid.

Do we protect kids a tad too much at times? yes. the other extreme is not healthy either But that photo, stupid. And if the vehicle had to break suddenly, kids go flying and onto the ground. Forget CPS, or all that. Think of how guilty parents are going to feel for being that stupid. By the way, I am watching my Ps and Qs, there are other words that come to mind, but they tend to get hidden over here.

[laundry_queen]

11. Really?

As a kid, I was not even allowed to ride in the back of a station wagon because it didn't have seat belts. I had to sit in the seats like every other car. It was a big disappointment when my dad brought that station wagon home and I realized it didn't mean playtime in the back when we traveled. But my parents were very safety conscious even in the 70's and 80's. Hanging on the top of the roof would have never happened though with anyone I knew, even those that were okay with the back of a station wagon. That someone would think it was acceptable NOW is really unthinkable.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. I was little before there were seatbelts.

We did all kinds of stuff that is illegal now. We even roamed the neighborhood by ourselves. And walked to the park and back. We bicycled everywhere by ourselves.

Talk about a walk on the wildside.

Nobody thought anything about it.

[LiberalArkie]

22. Yea, when I went to the library, I walked there it was only about 5 miles away so no problem.

Go swimming, no problem. Just leave a note on the fridge and walk to the pool about 10 miles.

Of course that was all in the 50's and 60's. Riding on top of the station wagon was probably just as safe or safer than riding in the back of a pickup truck. Being on top, my dad would just be idling down the streets. But I have seen people in the back go pickup trucks doing 60 down the highway.

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. I didn't have to walk that far.

We always walked to school and that was maybe 2 miles to highschool. Grade scroll was maybe a mile. In grade school we biked if the weather was good enough. but that was uncool in junior high.

We never had snow days. We just made it there somehow. And girls had to wear dresses so my knees would freeze. We always wore long socks in winter.

Mother said that her older sister went horseback 5 miles across the Plains to school when she was 6. All by herself. It was eastern Montana and they lived on a ranch.

[laundry_queen]

73. I roamed the neighborhood by myself

I rode my bike by myself.

I went to the park by myself.

My kids do still now.

My mom grew up on a farm. Her dad taught her farm safety and she was not allowed to drive a tractor before she was 15. And she definitely would not have been allowed to hitch a ride on the top a vehicle.

I guess some people just have common sense no matter what decade they were born in.

[Liberal_in_LA]

89. Never road on roof but spent.plenty of time in back of station wagon

In the 60s, 70s

[JackInGreen]

26. I'd done a few pickup trucks like that

but never a station wagon or minivan.

[cwydro]

36. My dad used to let us jump out of the back of our station wagon on dirt roads

while it was moving

We were playing "paratrooper."

He didn't tell mom and neither did we.

[LuvNewcastle]

82. LOL!

[Liberal_in_LA]

90. Like.Romney's dog?

[bluedigger]

5. I can only assume this is a thing in flat as a pancake parts of the country.

No one would have survived that growing up in western Maine.

[Rex]

6. They probably were hanging out of the sunroof.

[PersonNumber503602]

7. Where exactly is the outrage?

I see some people questioning the wisdom of it, but I can't find anything that I'd call outrage. Any idea what they're talking about? Is there any, or is this paper trying to create some outrage?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

8. Stupid.

Too far of a fall on hard pavement with no helmet.

https://m.

[LiberalArkie]

24. Probably need to ban kids riding in parades. You know those floats probably don't have

seat belts and I know most are not wearing helmets. And some of those are pretty high. And the grade school kids riding on fire trucks and floats.

We must stop the kids from riding in parades.

We must detect the kids from taking gymnastics without helmets and full body protection.

And think how dangerous swimming and diving is without personal floatation devices and proper headgear.

We must protect the children from playing in their yard, one could fall and maybe hit their head on a rock or sprinkler

[PersonNumber503602]

42. One difference is that those floats and firetrucks were designed to have people ride on them.

I'm not particularly "outraged" by the video of these kids on the roof, but I can't say it's something I'd recommend anyone doing.

[beam me up scottie]

43. I don't see any outrage either.

Just a few people saying it's careless for obvious reasons.

[Gormy Cuss]

79. Exactly. It's careless and stupid

Last edited Sat Dec 26, 2015, 08:07 AM - Edit history (1)

and the adult(s) in the car should know that. When I was a kid I had friends whose parents let them ride on tailgates. Mine didn't because they didn't want us to fall off and break something (plus with a bazillion kids in the car they may not have noticed one was missing. )

[beam me up scottie]

81. Knowing when to say no is part of the job.

We had lots of freedom but my parents drew the line at stupid stunts.

And we all survived childhood.

[PersonNumber503602]

40. Scary thought that he was entrusted with a gun and authority over civilians.

[bigwillq]

9. Must. Ban. Cars.

NOW!

[Lizzie Poppet]

72. Goddamn the National Minivan Association!!

[beam me up scottie]

12. And if a drunk crashed into the van? Or they had to brake suddenly?

Last edited Fri Dec 25, 2015, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)

I wouldn't put my dog on top of a vehicle or in the back of our truck for the same reason.

A fall onto the pavement from that height could mean a fractured skull or getting run over by another vehicle .

[Logical]

17. And climbing a tree is dangerous also. And riding a bike. And swimming. And.... (you get it)

[beam me up scottie]

20. Right, because those activities are the same thing as riding on top of a moving vehicle.

In the street, at night, with other moving vehicles.

I'm sure you see responsible parents letting their kids ride on top of cars all the time, don't you?

And there must be laws against letting kids climb trees, ride bikes and swim, because those activities are just as dangerous, right?

[Logical]

25. They are sticking out sunroof. I used to sit in back of pickup. Jesus, overprotective much? nt

[beam me up scottie]

32. No, according to the report they were laying on top of the roof.

When Jeremy Barron posted the video to YouTube on December 15, he wrote, "Kids laying on roof on minivan driving through my neighborhood looking at Christmas lights. Just wow."

Letting little kids ride on top of cars is stupid, if they fall off they can get run over.

I can't believe people think otherwise, at least the lady in the article downthread had an excuse, she was drunk.

One kid did get a fun helicopter ride out of it though, too bad she was unconscious and couldn't enjoy it.

[uncle ray]

33. they must have transparent legs and lower torsos.

you can see the christmas lights through the vans windows.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

45. If that kid in the green shirt is sticking out of the sunroof, he has one fucked up body.

It's obvious he is laying prone.

Is there even a roof rack to hang on to?

Even at a couple miles per hour, if the driver taps the brakes the kids are going head first on the pavement.

[beam me up scottie]

46. Here's the video, it's clear they were laying on top:

[Hassin Bin Sober]

47. Going a lot faster than I expected.

Stupid. If they tap the brakes those kids are going over the hood.

[beam me up scottie]

48. I noticed that too, I thought they'd be creeping along.

They could easily get thrown under the wheels of another car.

[Chemisse]

83. Not a wise move.

Some risks are worth taking; I don't think this one is, especially the way they are clipping along.

[beam me up scottie]

84. Not at all.

The kids could see just fine from inside.

If they wanted a better look they could have parked and walked.

[snooper2]

35. THEY ARE GHOSTS!

[beam me up scottie]

38. Well there you go!

[Bluenorthwest]

50. And yet my cousin died flying out of the back of a pickup.

Minor accident, other than the fatality. 16.

[lame54]

37. I guarantee it was an amazing adventure for these kids...

and none of the horrible scenarios you imagined happened

[beam me up scottie]

39. So we should let parents put their kids on the roof then, because nothing happened this time?

What about the kid in the article downthread who fell off, was seriously injured and had to be airlifted to a hospital?

Some horrible scenario did happen, but boy I bet she had the time of her life too! Right up until she didn't.

Why have child endangerment laws at all?

[DrDan]

13. insane - can't believe it is being defended

[beam me up scottie]

21. What could possibly go wrong?:

Cops: Drunk Texas mom drove with kids on top of her car

"The kids were really pretty banged up; one girl unconscious, had to be [airlifted] out," Stephanie Wywias, a mother of two who lives on the street where the children were injured, told CBS DFW. "Heartbreaking. I first thought some kids had been run over playing out in the street, but that wasn't the fact at all."

The most seriously injured child had to be taken by Careflight to a hospital in Fort Worth and remains hospitalized with a serious head injury, according to the station. Her mother was a passenger in the vehicle who could also face charges in the incident. The three other kids were treated and have been released. Child Protective Services is investigating.

"As a parent, you have to know right from wrong because the kids don't," said Wywias.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-drunk-texas-mom-drove-with-kids-on-top-of-her-car/

[DrDan]

61. I think this is the problem - - -

"As a parent, you have to know right from wrong because the kids don't."

[beam me up scottie]

62. Maybe the people who thought this was a good idea suffered head injuries as children?

It would explain their hostility to laws that protect children from stupid parents.

Who needs to be inside a vehicle to be safe?

Just put the car seat on top and drive slow, the kid will get lots of fresh air that way. Kids don't spend enough time outdoors as it is.

[cwydro]

14. I don't think they're on top.

It looks like they're standing up through the sunroof.

I saw this same thing while in a decorated neighborhood the other day. Everyone is going slowly to look at the lights. I don't see any harm.

[dembotoz]

15. not sure what would shock me more...kids on the roof or a minivan with a sun roof

had a couple of mini vans and the idea of a sunroof would NEVER occur to me

[cwydro]

16. I'm not familiar with minivans.

The kids I saw the other night were in an SUV of some sort with a sunroof.

They were having a blast.

[Logical]

18. They are standard on many models. nt

[MADem]

27. I am a fan of safety equipment for children.

However, I can't get excited about this. I'm betting that car was crawling along, the children look old enough to know to hang on, and they had an experience they will NEVER forget.

If the parents were whipping down the road at speed, I'd take issue, but this is a meander through a dense neighborhood, it's not the same at all. It's the 21st century equivalent of a hayride.

[Logical]

31. I agree, way to much over reaction to stuff like this. Could something go wrong? Sure, just like....

any other day. But you can't control life at times.

[PersonNumber503602]

44. I don't see much "outrage"

A search shows similar conversations as the one we're having here. I tend to think for something to be classified as having outrage over it, there needs to be more than a few dozen people talking about it. There's a video of it on youtube, and even the guy who made the video said he just thought it was amusing and shocking to see. I'm pretty sure this is a newspaper trying to make it a thing.

[MADem]

60. Well, it was in a headline that started a thread ...so it must be true!

[sorefeet]

34. I can see it now, I'm pretty sure

they are just popped up through the sun roof. I see OSHA violations on the news channels all the time with no safety harnesses in man lifts for one. Over 4 feet off the ground in a refinery without a safety harness is a violation, but a kid can be 8 feet on the monkey bars, no prob.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. Because kids play on monkey bars, employees should unnecessarily risk their lives at work...

... because some asshole boss doesn't want to spend a few bucks on a harness and the fraction of time it takes to buckle up?

I always tell people the most dangerous tool I use is a ladder. I have a buddy who received internal injuries from a fall off an 8 foot ladder.

Four feet in a man lift might not be "there" but it's well on the way.

Just a couple weeks ago, I caught one of my subs' guys straddling/sitting on top of a 6 foot ladder. I immediately made it clear that wasn't ok on my job site. I called his boss and told him the same. No fucking excuse for such laziness and stupidity.

[haele]

64. Guy at work lost his leg from a fall off a six-ft. aluminum ladder.

He was taking down the holiday lights, he admits he reached farther than he should have and the ladder overbalanced. When he shifted to keep the ladder from falling, he overcompensated and his leg got caught between the rungs as it came down; it twisted and shattered. The bone graft didn't take, and they had to amputate just below the knee.
One of those weird accidents, but when you consider how many people fall off or nearly fall off ladders or chairs they are using as ladders, it has a greater chance of occurring than most people think.
After all, how many times have you "just slipped" or lost your balance and got that adrenaline rush because something could have happened?
Just a thought.
Haele

[Hassin Bin Sober]

68. I didn't want to pile on too much but we had a customer die hanging Christmas lights.

It was when I was in the car business.

In one week buying a car. The next week his family was selling the car back.

[haele]

78. Understood, there's risk in everything. That's what makes the joy so intense when we survive.

The ability to anticipate what physics is going to do to you when you persist in doing something considered stupid is an adult skill, and it's the adult's responsibility to minimize the amount of risk the children will experience as they are growing up. That's why it's sometimes so aggravating when we observe parents doing stupid things trying to be kids with their children.

Haele

[Liberal_in_LA]

91. Lots of accidents caused by reaching from ladder. Better to climb down and move.ladder

[mike_c]

87. we need a constitutional amendment that guarantees the right...

...to use questional judgement. God save us from the nanny state and its permanent residents.

[pstokely]

92. they could just put them a cage on top like Mittens did with Seamus