Woman who failed FDNY physical test 6 times gets another chance

[philosslayer]

A woman who six times failed the physical test to become an FDNY firefighter is being given another chance — and this time, critics say, the fix is in.

“She’ll graduate, no question,” said an FDNY member. “The department does­n’t want another black eye.”

Wendy Tapia was allowed to conditionally graduate from the Fire Academy on May 17, 2013, even though she had failed the running test.

After swearing her in, the FDNY gave Tapia five more chances to run the required 1.5 miles in 12 minutes or less, but she couldn’t do it. She quit — never having worked a tour of duty.

http://nypost.com/2015/12/27/unfireable-female-firefighter-returns-to-the-fdny/


I apologize for posting something from the NY Post. However, in spite of the obvious slant of this article, I congratulate Ms. Tapia on getting another chance, and wish her the best of luck. To have only 49 females in a 10,500 member fire department is simply a disgrace.

[edhopper]

1. The Post

sure knows how to color a story.

Yellow journalism at it's finest.

[madville]

2. Makes sense in this instance

In a job where physical strength and endurance are literally a matter of life and death you can either pass the standards or you can't. There has to be some measure of ability.

[PeteSelman]

4. That's ridiculous.

You either have what it takes to do the job or you don't. She doesn't, as was proved five times over. All this does is make the department weaker and endanger the other fire fighters.


Stupid.

[matt819]

5. I have to agree

I couldn't pass this test if my own life depended on it, much less someone who depended on me. And I shouldn't be a firefighter. That's as it should be. You can't pass, you don't get employed. Regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, etc.

And one in, if you can't keep up with the physical demands - thinking fat cops here - you should find another job. Period.

[JudyM]

6. Hold on a second. Do we know this test is even testing a necessary ability?

Seems like running a mile and a half is not something that would happen in the vast majority of urban fires. A short sprint may be more relevant. If they're trying to test endurance there are other ways.

[LittleBlue]

7. My uncle is a firefighter

It's for tall buildings. When fires occur, the elevators become death traps and nobody uses them. More often they're running up and down stair wells carrying people who can't move due to smoke inhalation.

And that's in Seattle. In New York the number of tall buildings are many times that. Every year they used to take all the firefighters in the region and make them run up the tallest buildings in full gear. It's brutal, which is why most young firefighters are in amazing shape.

The endurance needed to run up 50 storeys in full gear and carry a 150-200lb person down is almost superhuman.

[JudyM]

11. Ok, that makes sense. But she's a medic-type so it seems like the qualifications might be different

It's a rare woman who could do what you describe. Does that mean women shouldn't be doing other stuff in the rescue that don't involve feats of strength?

It's like in the military. Put people in positions for which they are qualified, without risking their colleagues' lives. Don't just exclude them from everything, and then without testing them for what's actually needed.

[LittleBlue]

15. That is basically what they've done in other cities, to my understanding

For the cities that do it.

[Waldorf]

31. She was an EMT before she tried to be a firefighter. She went backto being an EMT after she

still couldn't qualify as a firefighter. They should have never given her so many chances. Either you qualify or not.

[PeteSelman]

12. Yes, we do know this.

You need to be able to run up steps in full gear and be able to carry a downed partner. If you can't do it, you can't have the job. In a tight situation, she'd have to leave an injured colleague behind. Unacceptable.

She can go be an EMS or something.

[JudyM]

14. Understood. Then have her do that as the test. Nt

[razorman]

27. Absolutely. Also, have they ever given a man six chances to pass

this test, or guaranteed that he would make it through, no matter what? If she is truly not up to the physical standards, it will very likely cost her life, if not the lives of others. The quals should be set and strict, but anyone who can pass them should be given the chance.

[GGJohn]

8. If she can't pass it the first 6 times, then that should be it,

she doesn't have what it takes for the physical endurance of a firefighter, and, she quit, is she going to quit when lives are on the line?

[edhopper]

9. If you read the story

which is biased against her.
She had a foot injury.

[GGJohn]

10. I did read the story, and she had 6 months to complete that run,

Over the next six months, she failed the test five more times. After the sixth try, she finally ­resigned and returned to her former EMT job.

Her foot should have healed in that 6 months.
I stand by my words, she doesn't have what it takes to be a firefighter on the FDNY.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. It depends on the kind of injury

Some take longer to heal. Some tendons can take a while.

[LeftyMom]

18. Even if it healed it still takes time to train again

I broke a toe in September and I still can't run at all and walk with a slight limp that gets worse after long periods on my feet. And that's just a broken toe. There's no earthly way I could pass a running test in February, even though I'm in good shape. I haven't been able to run in four months, even if I could start again tomorrow it would take me time to rebuild atrophied muscles and I'd have to go slowly to avoid injuring myself in another way.

And I have no earthly idea what was wrong with her foot, but it almost has to be worse than a broken toe because almost anything would be.

[blue neen]

20. It is nice to know that we have orthopedic surgeons here on DU

who can diagnose peoples' injuries, sight-unseen, and prognosticate their recovery times.

Amazing.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

21. The FDNY docs said she needed only 6 months to recover

Who are you or anyone else here to say she needs more?

Sounds like there are would-be orthopedic surgeons on both sides of the issue here.

[blue neen]

24. I didn't say how long she needs to recover.

Didn't say more time, didn't say less time...because I don't know the answer, and neither does anyone else here.

---and that's the point----

[SickOfTheOnePct]

25. Thanks, I just re-read

as I thought a doc had told her six months - my bad.

I find it pretty funny that in the article, one of her defenders claims she was injured at the academy because "they overtrained her".

That to me says she's unqualified - if she can't make it through the training without being injured, she isn't fit to be a firefighter, IMO.

[GGJohn]

28. Yeah, that's how good I am. eom.

[blue neen]

34. Wonderful. I can save a lot of money by consulting you

rather than paying to see my world famous surgeon. It just so happened that he did some groundbreaking surgery that enabled me to walk again. He succeeded where others had failed, but it sounds like you're better. It's a comfort to know.

[GGJohn]

35. And I probably charge a hell of a lot less. eom.

[blue neen]

36. You know, strangely enough, I don't think he got paid nearly enough.

It was the hospital that made all the money. He's a genius, so it's a shame. This particular hospital system is notorious for overcharging, though.

[GGJohn]

37. All hospitals, private and public, way overcharge,

and, because he helped you walk again, then he was underpaid, not by you, but by the hospital.
Glad you're able to walk again.

[LanternWaste]

39. I pretend I can diagnosis foot injuries too.

I pretend I can diagnosis foot injuries too.

[GGJohn]

40. Good for you. eom.

[Logical]

17. I agree, this sounds like a political decision not to piss off people. nt

[TreasonousBastard]

16. I don't know more specifics about Tapia's case but...

while all firefighters must be physically up to the task, there, as always, other things going on...

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/new-yorks-firefighting-women

Written by a retired female firefighter who claims the current standards may not be the best tests for firefighting fitness, and describes historic anti-woman attitudes. Many of these attitudes and actions had been well-publicized over the years.

Note particularly that when women were allowed into the force, the tests got tougher. Why would that be?

[Snobblevitch]

29. Several years ago,

ok maybe 20 years ago, St. Paul decided that they needed more female firefighters. They actively recruited women to apply and take the various tests. It turns out they had few applicants who could pass the physical tests. They changed the trsts by lowering the physical requirements. I remember there were many people who were not pleased with that decision. This would be a better post if I could remember what the final results were in their attempt to get more female firefighters.

[TreasonousBastard]

30. In NYC, there has been a lot of talk about not just...

basic physical fitness for cops and firemen, but real problems, like grabbing the hose if the front guy gets knocked down, what to do with the guy coming at your partner with a lead pipe...

Both can be very difficult and demanding jobs,and it's extremely important to trust the people you work with and who back you up. Not just that they will do the job, but can do the job.

I've been away from it for years, but a lot of the guys I knew had real issues. It's easy to yell "sexism" and there's a lot of it out there, but it's also a tough job with tough calls.

It does look like they're looking for honest solutions, though.

[Snobblevitch]

33. I do not believe lowering the physical

requirements would be an honest solution.

I know several men who were LEO for 30 years each, they are now retired. Towards the end of their careers, I know they let the young cops do the footchases, just as they did when they were young. Experience goes a long way on the job. (Of the five retired cops I'm thinking of, only two were ever shot at and only one ever returned fire. One of them only unholstered his gun once in his career. Their days were mostly traffic, being seen on the street, and responding to medicals. One of them broke into a burning house and brought out a couple in their 70s. They would not have made it if he had waited for the firefighters to get there. (They teased him about doing their job.)

[TeddyR]

19. Ridiculous

This person needs to be able to perform the tasks necessary to save lives. Her sex has nothing to do with it - if she can't pass the physical test then she isn't qualified. I'd like to think that the people coming to save my family from a fire are physically able to do so.

[GummyBearz]

22. She will be a station captain in no time

Perfect skill set. Cant do the job but wont quit. Hurray

[SickOfTheOnePct]

23. We'll read about her again

When someone dies because she can't do her job.

[GummyBearz]

26. That seems to be the case

Unfortunately

[Waldorf]

32. She shouldn't have any more chances, she had enough tries. Either you qualify or not.

[davidn3600]

38. Do men get this many attempts?