Women’s Self Defense Against Sexual Assault

[CajunBlazer]

I am a 5th Degree Black Belt in a Japanese style of Karate. I occasionally teach a self defense class to women in my area. The following are my notes from my basic class. Hopefully they will be of some use to you.

This course is not intended to make you paranoid; your chances of being attacked in a particular situation are very small. However, you do need to be aware that it can happen. Every two minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted. One out of every six American women has been the victim of a sexual assault in their lifetime. Statistics show that any woman, young or old can be the victim of a sexual attack. Two thirds of the attacks are committed by someone the victim knows, at least casually. Many assaults are never reported.

Let’s talk about how women can avoid being attacked. Awareness is always the first step in being prepared. At the end of this class I want you to be better prepared to prevent assaults from happening in the first place, and better prepared to survive one if it happens to you.

Q. What is the most important thing you can do to not become the victim of an attack by a predator?

A. Don’t put your self in the position of being attacked in the first place.

Let’s take situation that could happen in real life – to someone who is blissfully unaware that she could be a victim. As you read through this scenario, see if you can determine what this women is doing wrong which will leave her vulnerable to an assault.

A woman normally works regular hours in downtown office building. She usually gets off around 4:30 so she usually walk to her car in a nearby parking garage a couple of blocks in the daylight when there are usually a lot of people around.

Lately, however, her workload has increased dramatically and she been working nearly late every night on a big project. Often she feels that she could work all night and still not get everything done, but she has her limits and has been routinely knocking off at about 8:00 every night.

Every evening at about that time she walks, in her high heels, a couple dark, usually deserted city blocks from her work place to the deck where she parks her car.

Note: this article is not about blaming for sexual assaults. It is about how to avoid making yourself easy prey for the cowards who are responsible for assaults and what to do if you are assaulted. Remember that most sexual assaults are by someone the victim knows, so it it important to know how to defend yourself. It is knowledge that could save your life.

Rest of the article here > Women’s Self Defense Against Sexual Assault

[Orrex]

1. Yes, it's important to remember when an attack is the victim's fault.

Um... What?

[CajunBlazer]

5. You obviously didn't read the article are that would not be your reaction.

A sexual attack is never the the victims fault - but there are creatures out there with no souls who prey on women and they are cowards who almost always go after the easiest victims who present the least danger to themselves. Part of the course teaches how not to be an easy prey. The rest teaches what to do if you are attacked. I have lengthened the quotes from the article to make it clear that this is not an article blaming women for assaults on their bodies. It is about how to avoid situations where these cowards are more likely to attack.

Perhaps instead of being dismissive you could learn something that could save your life.

[Orrex]

10. Perhaps you should realize that I'm not the only one who reacted that way

Perhaps instead of being dismissive you could learn something that could save your life.

Instead of lashing out at your critics, perhaps you could sharpen your writing style for clarity.

[CajunBlazer]

41. Again, these are notes for a women's self defense class I teach

You can either bitch about my writing style or learn something. It's is difficult to learn anything when you are concentrating on criticism. Only you can decide which is more important to you.

[Orrex]

80. It's interesting that you claim to value women in personal and professional roles, but...

You can't wait to scold people for their "bitching." Quite a dichotomy of progressive thinking you've got there, sensei.

It's is difficult to learn anything when you are concentrating on criticism.

It is difficult to learn how to write when you respond to critics by telling them that they're just bitching.

[Warpy]

146. Perhaps you didn't.

90 year old women get raped in their own homes. Babies get raped. There's no way to avoid putting yourself in a position to be raped. The culture of this country (and others, notably India) is a rape tolerant culture, where men are rarely prosecuted, even more rarely convicted, and the onus is placed directly on women to avoid rape.

No, dear, this is a men's problem. Men are going to have to clean it up. Articles like this one just piss us off. We are never responsible for being raped, no matter where we are and what we're doing.

Get it?

[lovemydog]

129. They don't teach that.

They teach the person to gain inner peace and self-confidence so that they can take more control of their life. That's a positive.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. "Don't go out in public with those breast-things of yours, men just can't help themselves"

[NightWatcher]

3. Class on Situational Awareness: #1 Put your phone away

[lovemydog]

136. Great point.

Happy new year!

[ileus]

4. I thought peeing on themselves was the latest defense?

[CajunBlazer]

6. If you think this article is about blaming women for sexual assults - you haven't read the article

A sexual attack is never the the victims fault - but there are creatures out there with no souls who prey on women and they are cowards who almost always go after the easiest victims who present the least danger to themselves. Part of the course teaches how not to be an easy prey. The rest teaches what to do if you are attacked. I have lengthened the quotes from the article to make it clear that this is not an article blaming women for assaults on their bodies. It is about how to avoid situations where these cowards are more likely to attack.

Perhaps instead of being dismissive you could learn something that could save your life.

[LanternWaste]

8. I've found that if more people infer my point differently than I intended

I've found that if more people than not infer my point differently than I intended, then I should possibly revisit my own writing skills and how I abridge them for convenience rather than simply accusing others of being dismissive.

[lovemydog]

138. Sometimes.

Not always.

Happy new year!

[etherealtruth]

9. No, it may not have been the intent of the article

... however, it is the message that is implied.

[CajunBlazer]

11. Did you read the article?

[Orrex]

12. Why don't you post the article?

It's yours, presumably, so there are no issues of copyright.

[CajunBlazer]

16. It is very long, and if it prevents one assult or allows some one to fight off an assult -

then it is not a waste of space. I have have a number of women take my course and they all seemed to think it was valuable. Of course I can't teach the physical skills on line, but what is most important is situational awareness and mindset. I frankly never thought I would get some of the reactions I am getting. I am a staunch progressive who values women in professional and leadership roles - my wife and I are very equal partners in a very loving relationship - I don't deserve this kind of reaction.

[Orrex]

21. Regardless of the reaction you think you deserve...

your excerpt clearly gave readers an impression other than what you hoped. I accept that this was not your intent, but either a bunch of readers don't know how to read, or a single writer was unclear in his writing.

Of the two, which is easier to correct?

[CajunBlazer]

23. Please understand that, as stated the article consist of my notes which I used to teach...

... a course of self defense. It is not an article in the standard sense. What I failed to understand about the ability of some of the DU folks to take offense when absolutely none was intended. I obviously discounted their prickly nature.

I feel the same as if someone has just called my a racist when I haven't a racist bone in my body. I have to keep reminding myself that some folks are so sensitive on some subjects that they are hair triggered, looking to take offense regardless of the true nature of the situation.

[Orrex]

25. First you blame the victim, and now you blame the reader

You certainly seem to have a black belt in deflecting responsibility.

I feel the same as if someone has just called my a racist when I haven't a racist bone in my body. I have to keep reminding myself that some folks are so sensitive on some subjects that they are hair triggered, looking to take offense regardless of the true nature of the situation.

Utter bullshit. Your writing is sloppy and imprecise, and rather than responding like an adult, you attack the people who point this out to you.

The correct response at this point is to say "Yes, I guess I could have worded that better." Then you can take down your lengthy blog post, rework it so that it says what you claim you want it to say, and then repost it.


Or you can keep pouting and hope you can convince everyone that they're too sensitive.

[CajunBlazer]

36. Look if you don't like the article - press on with something else ....

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:15 PM - Edit history (1)

.... if you don't like my writing don't read it. If you would rather bitch how something was written than learn something from it, that is your prerogative, but I don't have to put up with your argumentative BS. Bye

[Orrex]

78. You have no future as a writer

If you can't handle minor criticism from an anonymous reader, you're going to disintegrate if you ever get bad feedback from an editor.

Don't flatter yourself to think that you're treating in concepts too big for my humble brain to grasp. You've posted a trivial and obvious list of suggestions by a man telling women how to take responsibility for being victims. Bravo, sir.

Rather than reflecting upon the feedback you've received from multiple readers, you became petulant and defensive--hardly traits that one typically associates with the mental discipline of a 5th degree black belt.


So you can complain that people don't understand your Important Lesson For Women, or you can learn something from your readers' feedback and improve as a writer.

[etherealtruth]

13. Yes ... it may not have been the intent, but the onus is placed on the woman (victim)

... throughout most of it.

Most of the replies indicate that the readers came away with much the same general feeling i did. If that wasn't the intent of the message it probably needs to be reworked or fine tuned so that the message's audience receives what was intended.

[Squinch]

44. It also assumes that women are really, really stupid.

[mythology]

50. To be fair, it's harder to take steps to make somebody not be a rapist

You can take steps to limit your risk factors. It's not blaming the victim to say they do have some agency that they can do to lessen the likelihood of being attacked, because there are things in an individual's control.

Yes there are some steps we as a society need to take to make (mostly) men realize that rape is a bad thing you should never do. But that is a much longer term thing.

I think that it's easy to assume that an article is blaming the victim because there are a lot of people who do blame the victim. But I take extra gear when hiking not because I'm responsible for the weather or if somebody else gets hurt. I can take steps to minimize the chances of a negative impact without blaming myself.

[CajunBlazer]

52. Extremely well stated! (n/t)

[Gormy Cuss]

58. The article wouldn't have this reception had it been about avoiding assaults.

Narrowing it to sexual assaults against women then blaming women for what they're wearing, for walking alone after dark, etc. is giving agency to rapists.

[ProfessorGAC]

60. I Find It Depressing That I Agree With Your Second Paragraph

It just seems like it's so unnecessary.

The very fact that you wrote "...make (mostly) men realize that rape is a bad thing you should never do." is intrinsically depressing.

That should not have to be explained to anybody. Just terrible that it does.

[etherealtruth]

7. Don’t put your self in the position of being attacked in the first place.

Do not go out alone .... male family members may serve as chaperons.

Do not dress provocatively .... wear loose fitting clothes (draping fabric) that cover the silhouette of your body completely, wear scarves and draping fabric to cover your hair and maybe even your face.

Do not work .... except in family businesses where (once again) male family members may serve as chaperons

Do not live alone .... live with male family members ....



yeah ...

[CajunBlazer]

14. I think you have a problem where your assume intent when there is none.

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 02:18 PM - Edit history (1)

The article doesn't say - don't go out alone - it stresses situational awareness.

And yes, cowards who assault women are less likely to risk an attack on two people.

You were loose fitting clothes and sensible not to disguise your body, but because it is difficult as hell to run in a tight skirt while wearing high heels. And by the way these predators often
don't care what you look like - their bag is not usually sex, but domination.

Your mindset is keeping you from learning something that could save your life - In my mind that is the worst kind of stupid.

[etherealtruth]

18. I understand that ... I fully believe that it may not be the intent of the article

... however, that is the message received from it.

The way the message is presented should be changed if you want the message received in a different way

[CajunBlazer]

26. You do understand that a person's perceptions of the situations they encouter...

... are often more dictated by their existing mindset than the reality of the situation. Maybe that speaks to the how some people on DU view the world. If you are constantly looking to be offended, I have a good chance of being offended even when no offense was intended. Even when others would not be offended at all.

I have taught numerous women self defense using these notes - none were offended, most expressed sincere appreciation for the experience. Maybe, that was because by they had the advantage of personal association with me, so they did not jump to conclusions. Maybe it was because they came in with the mindset of wanting to learn how to protect themselves.

I learned many years ago in college, that while sometimes I didn't like some of my professors, or I didn't like they way they expressed themselves, if I let that keep me from learning what I could from them, that was my problem, not theirs.

[etherealtruth]

28. You have chosen to squander an opportunity to learn

That's up to you.

You are heavily invested in telling the women that have responded to you, how wrong we are ... instead of engaging in some introspection and seeing what YOU could do to improve your writing and improve the message.

Good Luck

[Orrex]

29. ^^That. All of that.

[CajunBlazer]

34. Okay, let me get this staight....

Your telling me that I have squandered an opportunity to learn how not to offend women who are overly sensitive and hair triggered to take offense when it is obvious to many that no offense is intended. Frankly I am happy to say that I don't encounter my people like you in my life and for that I am thankful.

On the other hand, you have not learned to overlook real or imagined offenses in order to take advantage of the lessons everyone you meet can teach you, lessons that might even save your life.

Look I am far from perfect - so let's leave it like this - I'll try to learn how not to offend people like you and you can work on your problems as well.

[demmiblue]

35. Just stop and walk away... your arms must be getting tired.

?

[CreekDog]

84. You're a great writer whom nobody understands

[Orrex]

113. .

[LeftyMom]

15. You appear to have a very poor understanding of when and how rape happens in the real world.

High status women being attacked by anonymous ruffians in the dark might be a scary visual for TV, but in the actual world a woman is most likely to be raped by a man she knows. You're either perpetuating a dangerous misunderstanding or cynically profiting from a lie, either way your work is distinctly unhelpful and arguably making women less safe.

[CajunBlazer]

19. Really, then why does the article say that a woman is most likely to be attacked by someone...

... she knows. And you obviously didn't read the part of the article which describes how to fight off an attack regardless of who the attacker is.

[LeftyMom]

20. Your introductory scenario is bad television.

It all goes downhill from there.

You've missed your calling: you suck at safety advice, but you could write a mean Lifetime Original Movie.

[CajunBlazer]

27. Please understand that these are notes I used to teach a women's self defense course...

....take them for what they are, or go on to something else. If you want to learn something that might help you - by all means do so - if you want to bitch, find some other target.

[LeftyMom]

30. And now you're using sexist slurs when women disagree with you.

I've taken a self-defense course in real life, and I received considerably better advice from the instructors of that course. That's why I'm offering you constructive criticism.

Further, you posted your blog article on a discussion forum. If you did not want it to be discussed this was a poor choice on your part. If you wish to persist in the delusion that your advice is perfect and literally every commenter is an overly sensitive bitch who doesn't know that rape is a thing and rejects your brilliant and novel advice, I hardly know what to tell you.

[Blecht]

43. Great reply

I would rec this if I could.

[CreekDog]

89. so in a thread you started about women protecting themselves against sexual assault

you use the b-word to disagree with a female poster who disagrees with you (and seems to know more about the topic than you)?

that's a whole lotta fail.

[demmiblue]

17. "...to someone who is blissfully unaware that she could be a victim."

Thought/said no woman ever. Women are not dumbasses- we know that we could be potential victims, but most of us don't live our lives being afraid.

I stopped reading at that point.

[Starry Messenger]

22. Women are always aware we could be a victim.

What we are doing wrong apparently is trying to function like a normal human being.

[etherealtruth]

24. +1,000000000

[raccoon]

73. I second that emotion. nt

[CajunBlazer]

31. I have twenty five years of martial arts experience

I am also 6'2" and 200 lbs. Trust me when I say that their are not many physical situations which I can't handle much better than someone who has not trained for every possibility as I have. However, even I don't do stupid things like walk down dark, deserted streets while totally immersed in my iPhone. People who relatively weak and have no training who do that kind of thing are not asking to be attacked, but they are real stupid.

In addition, since in most sexual attacks on women the assailant is someone the person knows, the attacks are often unexpected. In such situation, wouldn't you like to know how to defend yourself and fend off an attack. Well, you can learn that in the article.

So here's the deal, people can get over what ever personal problems they have with the article and learns something that may save they lives, or they continue to take offense where none was intended and go on with their lives. I have learned long ago that I can't control how other folks react.

[Squinch]

40. How many times have you heard of women being attacked because they HABITUALLY

walk late at night down dark deserted streets while totally immersed in their phones and wearing high heels?

Yeah, me neither. So not only are you blaming the victim, you are also assuming all the women who come to your class are careless and foolish.

Save your heroic instructions to us stupid wimmens.

[CajunBlazer]

47. You obviously haven't been watching many young people here lately

I saw one young girl recently driving down an interstate day doing 80 before yesterday while she was totally absorbed in phone, texting or something.

About a month ago I saw another kid with his ear buds on step off of a curb in front of car. Luckily the driver was paying more attention the kid was.

Use google and you can find all kinds of amusing videos getting themselves into all kind of jams because they are totally distracted by their phones.

Everyday I see people getting out of the elevators at work putting in their earbuds as they are walking out to their cars. This time of of the year it gets dark here about 4:30 in the afternoon, so don't tell me that people can't be careless and foolish.

[Squinch]

48. So, never.

[one_voice]

147. You don't have to be totally absorbed in your phone...

you can look down for a second. Or you can take 30 seconds to reply to a message about meeting a family member while walking to your car in a parking lot and it can happen that quick. I know. It recently happened to me.

I'm usually very aware of surroundings and was pretty aware then. Thanks to having a former LEO in the family.

That being said, reading some of what you've written is victim accusing. The fact that I sent a very quick txt message in NO WAY contributed to what happened to me. NONE of that falls into my lap. All the blame belongs to the perpetrator. EVERY. FUCKING. OUNCE.

And you know what, I haven't stopped doing what I do. I went back to where it happen as a big fuck you to the guy. So no I will not hide behind some man to protect me, or sit at home and wait for the sun to come out. I will fucking live my life to spite that fucker.

So maybe you should reword, reread, resomething, because I certainly felt as though you were/are saying 'well maybe if you weren't doing such n such'. Frankly, I can't fully tell you what I think without getting a hide and possibly banned.

But you have yourself a happy healthy and attack free New Year.

[Starry Messenger]

42. Amazing, since you were all about "Poor guy, the girl hit him first" a little earlier this year

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026946833#post77

"We are all taught (I think correctly) that men should not hit women and it would surely would have been best for him to just walk away at that point. However, the law does view the two sexes differently. We are all equal under the law. When a punch is thrown, regardless of whether the person throwing it is a man or a woman, regardless of whether that punch connects or not, the attacked person has a right under the law defend him/herself."

And what happens when I attempt to paste my attacker and he has me arrested for DV for self-defense, since yes, in fact more women are raped by men they know?

How about you instruct men to not rape women? That would be a nice change.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. " people can get over what ever personal problems they have with the article .."

Because the readers are to blame for your piece of crap article.

Here's the deal: not a single suggestion you made is new to the vast majority of women in our culture. Furthermore, since you acknowledge that most sexual assaults aren't strangers who followed high-heeled, ear bud-wearing women walking through dark parks before futzing around outside of their dark cars, it's effectively useless advice.

[raccoon]

92. You got that right.

not a single suggestion you made is new to the vast majority of women in our culture.

[Orrex]

114. BOOM

[Starry Messenger]

148. +1

[Brickbat]

39. Bam.

[Rex]

69. It seems women should be acting

like they live in a warzone where a man cannot wait until they have the women alone and can prey on all her fears. The problem of course is women expecting society to be normal and functioning. It is not and I do find it interesting how little people want to talk about rape culture and it's prevalence in just about every wing of society one can imagine.

[mercuryblues]

32. when you start off with this

see if you can determine what this women is doing wrong which will leave her vulnerable to an assault.

it is a back handed way of blaming the victim. Whether you meant to or not. Then you go on with an exhaustive list of everything that is "wrong" that the fictional woman does. Women internalize this message, as they have heard it their entire lives. Which leads to why rapes are often not reported....they must have done some on the wrong list, so what did they think would happen?

[Squinch]

37. Oooh ooh! I know the answer!!!

I bet the thing that she did to make her vulnerable was that she got that job with the project that required long hours!

Am I right????

What a crock of shit. And he's insisting he isn't blaming the victim.

[justiceischeap]

33. I read the entire article

You should entitle it "Women's Self-Defense Against Stranger Sexual Assault" but as many have told you on their comments already, the majority of rapes happen by people we know... not strangers.

Also, although your intent was not to victim-blame, your writing comes across as victim blaming and you don't seem to like hearing that. Take it from the women in this discussion, we know what victim blaming looks like and this is it (whether intentional or not).

Your answer to the question is stated in a way that blames the victim. You may as well have written, "If only Vicky hadn't been in the wrong place at the wrong time, she wouldn't have been raped." That's what your answer means to women even though you didn't write it that way.

This would have been better:

Q. What is the most important thing you can do to not become the victim of an attack by a predator?

A. Situational awareness.

Let’s take situation that could happen in real life in cases of stranger attacks. As you read through this scenario, see if you can determine what this woman could have done differently that leaves her less vulnerable to an attack.

A woman normally works regular hours in downtown office building. She usually gets off around 4:30 so she usually walk to her car in a nearby parking garage a couple of blocks in the daylight when there are usually a lot of people around.

Lately, however, her workload has increased dramatically and she been working nearly late every night on a big project. Often she feels that she could work all night and still not get everything done, but she has her limits and has been routinely knocking off at about 8:00 every night.

Every evening at about that time she walks, in her high heels, a couple dark, usually deserted city blocks from her work place to the deck where she parks her car.

That answer covers everything you're attempting to impart and doesn't put the onus on the woman for the attack (just by changing the way it's worded).

[CajunBlazer]

38. Thanks for your intellegent and thoughtful comments. (n/t)

[Squinch]

46. It appears that you were blissfully ignorant that you could be disagreed with for this.

You might want to listen to the experts weighing in on this and learn from their instruction about what you are doing wrong.

You appear to have been unaware and unprepared.

So sad.

[CajunBlazer]

49. I liked being blissfully unaware that some of my fellow DU users are so easily offended.

There have been over 650 view of this OP so far, and I have counted fewer than ten people who have responded negatively, some of them several times, and I am not aware of their "expertise" in such matters. While I fully realize that perhaps others felt the same way and have not posted replies, that does not necessarily mean that those few people who replied negatively are representative of the majority of the thousands of people who read and post here.

One of the things that I have observed on DU is that once aggressive posters take over a thread, others are reluctant to use their time to argue with them. There are apparently many folks that don't want to get involved in the food fights and obviously think that there is nothing that can dissuade those aggressive posters from their tightly held believes, so it isn't worth their time trying.

I am grateful however to those who provided thoughtful advice on who I could have made my OP better instead of posting angry comments. I am also thankful for the those DU members who sent me encouraging emails behind the scenes.

Ultimately we can learn from from everything we encounter in life, or we can be critical. However, it is very difficult to do both of these things at the same time.

[Squinch]

51. Gosh. We all just refuse to learn from your superior knowledge, don't we? You're probably

right. There are probably millions of readers out there, all nodding their heads in agreement and thinking, "Yes! I wish women would just stop wearing high heels when they walk multiple blocks in the dark while listening to earbuds and totally unaware of their surroundings! It would stop all these pesky sexual assaults!"

They would say so, but they're just too reluctant to enter the fray with people who disagree with your fabulous advice to not do things that no one ever does anyway.

[CajunBlazer]

53. I'm a little slow apparently - I should have seen much earlier that you....

..... that arguing with you useless. Bye

[Squinch]

55. Not slow. I would say just blissfully ignorant. Like all them gals in high heels on the

dark streets with their earbuds every night, all of them ignoring their surroundings.

You know, the way women do.

[Lizzie Poppet]

54. Smallish female here...and unoffended.

Of course, I've also given a great deal of thought to personal security, so perhaps I was more receptive to the actual point: situational awareness. Without it, any other steps one might take may well be a waste of time.

And yes, once the keyboard commandos have turned a thread into a pissing match, those interested in actual discourse tend to abandon it. Fact of internet life...but I don't have to like it.

[davidn3600]

61. Some here think self-defense takes responsibility away from the attacker

They think instead of teaching women about self-defense we should teach men not to rape. And some DUers have gotten into some very heated arguments over this.

Obviously it would be great if we lived in a crime-free world. But we don't. No matter what you do, there will always be criminals out there. I see nothing wrong with teaching women or men self-defense skills so they know what to do if they ever find themselves in a dangerous situation. That's not blaming the victim or changing responsibility....it's common fucking sense. Unfortunately, some here don't have common sense and prefer to live in fantasies.

[Squinch]

62. Read the advice he is giving. Do you really think that women are doing the things he

is saying they are doing to make themselves vulnerable? Because they just aren't.

[LanternWaste]

65. What specifically leads you to believe "some here" are living in fantasies?

What specifically leads you to believe "some here" are living in fantasies?

[justiceischeap]

79. I think "some here" willfully misinterpret what is being said about teaching men not to rape

The fact of the matter is, for pregnancy and rape issues, the onus of preventing both is almost always on the woman. If a woman gets pregnant, how often do you hear, "Well, she shouldn't have been having (unprotected) sex?" Like she masturbated and her fingers/toy got her pregnant. Like there wasn't someone else in the room.

Well, when it comes to rape and self-defense, it's almost always up to the woman to prevent rape. Take self-defense classes, don't walk in heels, don't work late at night, don't wear that clothing, don't have those drinks, don't date that guy and invite him into your apartment... the list goes on and on about how women are told to deal with preventing rape. How often do you hear men told not to rape? Women are told almost daily how not to get raped. These are some of the things mom's tell their daughters when we're growing up. It's part of the birds and bees talk for (some) girls.

So when women say we shouldn't have to learn self-defense to combat sexual assault, the point of that is that men need to be taught equally that a woman's body his not his to "have" without her permission. That no really means no and if we're walking to our cars late at night in heels, that doesn't mean we're ripe for the taking. It means we've had a long day and our feet are probably killing us from being in those damn feet torture devices that are a requirement in the business world for most women.

[Oneironaut]

150. True. You can't teach a rapist not to rape. They're rapists.

It's not like they're going to say, "My what a well reasoned argument you have against attacking, raping, and killing an innocent woman. I think I'll reconsider my actions."

What people are thinking about is the type of rapist (the most common) who preys on a woman who maybe drank too much for example. They completely forget the other kind, and these skills could save your life.

[guillaumeb]

57. I read the post twice. I can find nothing that remotely suggests that the victim is to blame.

The point of the article, to me at least, is that situational awareness is something that everyone can practice. How does this sensible statement translate into "the victim is somehow to blame"?

Someone please enlighten me.

[Squinch]

63. It suggests that a reasonable scenario leading to a woman being raped

is that the woman in question has developed a daily habit of walking multiple dark, deserted blocks in high heels while making herself totally unaware of her surroundings.

Do you know ANY women who do that? Do you think women need to be told not to do this?

A reasonable scenario that leads to a woman being raped is that she crosses paths with a rapist. It is not caused by women's stupidity, as this OP suggests.

[guillaumeb]

64. Also part of the article was a discussion of how people can

fall into a routine when in familiar settings. I have routines, we all have routines. Sometimes these routines can distract. Sometimes predators will take advantage of distraction. That is the fault of the predator. But if the article leads people to remember to be situationally aware, is that not a good thing?

I read nothing here that states or suggests that women are stupid or somehow at fault.

[Squinch]

68. When you develop a routine, do you ever develop a routine that would be obviously dangerous

to you and completely devoid of common sense?

Do you need to be told not to do that?

I would venture to say no.

Neither do we.

And do you think that women are raped because they develop routines that are completely devoid of common sense? I don't either.

What these discussions always highlight for me is the luxury men have of being able to not be situationally aware. Women don't need to be told to be situationally aware. We are raised to be situationally aware.

[guillaumeb]

93. When you write about "obviously dangerous" routines,

sometimes the "obvious" component is only obvious in hindsight. When I drive I constantly see people, male and female, old and young, who are texting while driving. Is this dangerous behavior? Yes,it can be, but people continue to text because it is a bad habit.

The same applies to the situation that the author described. No one is generally situationally aware 100% of the time. People do get distracted.

And given that a significant percentage of sexual assaults happen between acquaintances and family members, even situational awareness cannot prevent all assaults.

[Squinch]

95. Do you see a lot of what the poster describes: women in high

heels on dark and deserted streets with their ear buds in? This is the behavior he is warning us about. This is the behavior that he has chosen to highlight as how we make ourselves vulnerable to rape. This is what he thinks we need to be "taught" about.

And he is not alone. This shit gets told to women all the time.

It's like if I told you that all you men need to stop putting those forks into the electric outlets. You know, the way all you guys are always doing. Because when you insist on putting those forks into the electric outlets, you are making yourself vulnerable to injury.

Again, women are not stupid. This OP assumes that we are

[guillaumeb]

97. Then we must leave it at that.

You see talking down and paternalism, I see a reminder to exercise common sense.

[Squinch]

101. Where do you get paternalism?

But anyway, don't forget: I know you are prone to putting those fork tines into the outlets, but I am here to tell you, it is not in your best interests. Listen to me about this. I am an expert, and you need to learn this.

[guillaumeb]

103. What if I like the feeling I get when I put a fork in the outlet?

Would you deny me that pleasure? I tried with a wooden salad fork but the tines did not fit into the socket so I now use metal utensils.

[Squinch]

137. OK, I made a bad attempt at humor there, but self deleted because it didn't work.

Have a good night.

[CajunBlazer]

96. We all develop rountines that are potentially dangerous, no one is immune

Everyone - men and women - need to be more situationally aware - potential attackers are one of the least likely dangers we might encounter in our daily lives. Everyone of us when doing something that we have done hundreds of times have completed tasks without remembering doing it. Many times I have heard people say they drove into work without remembering the trip. I have done that myself on more than a few occasions on the interstate in fast moving traffic. I guess I automatically slowed down and avoided cars when I needed to, but I have to say that is more than a bit scary.

So maybe you and other women are better than that and never get so involved in playing with your phone, or dealing with kids in the car, or thinking about something that went on in your life that you unaware of potential dangers like other cars around you. If so you are one of the most hype-aware people I have met.

[Squinch]

98. None of which is what you described as what women do to make themselves vulnerable

to rape.

[Eleanors38]

59. Cajun, you will have a difficult time talking about self-defense in DU.

[CajunBlazer]

72. Yep, I can see that now, but ....

.... even liberal, independent women could benefit from some tips on how stay out of trouble and how to defend themselves if trouble is unavoidable, whether they know it or not.

I have be a participant in the martial arts for 25 years and the next fight I get into will be my first since early high school when pooped a guy on his bare butt with a wet towel in the football locker room. (I can under stand now why he might have been a little ticked. ) My real reason for being involved in Karate is I have been fascinated from the beginning how generation after generation of practitioners for hundreds of years contrited to the perfection of an physical art and how well it works when performed correctly.

More than that I was an instructor for about 8 years and had many kids and their parents in my classes. I have always been amazed with the influence martial arts instructors have with kids and you can use that influence to make a positive contribution to their lives. I look back with fondness at the positive influence I have had with some of these kids who had previously been troubled and angry who who had cause problems both at home and in the classroom. It's almost like I was able to give them a fresh start at life.

It is amazing how the confidence they learn in martial arts carries over into other parts of their lives. This was particularly apparent with the girls in my classes . I have had mothers who were initially concerned that it would be problematic if their boys were "taught to fight", but in my experience the effect is the opposite. Except when they are force to by circumstance, I have a theory that boys and men fight because they don't know that they can win. Of course I taught my students to do everything they could to avoid fights. However, I think the primary reason they almost never got into fights is because they knew they would win so they didn't have anything to prove to themselves or anyone else.

I fully understand why some people, especially on DU, might have negative impressions of martial arts, but in my mind they can be easily forgiven. You don't know what you don't know.

[Eleanors38]

74. It's not the form of SD. It's self-defense period.

[CajunBlazer]

81. Well, you often can't blame people for a lack of understanding of things...

... to which they have never been exposed. I've noticed a sincere distaste of some on DU of anything that hints of violence. Unfortunately, most of the population of the world does not live in these idealistic save havens, so they have to deal with violence on regular basis.

For those who live in a warm, safe environments and who have never really been threatened in their entire lives, it is easy for them to be critical of those who make it their jobs to defend them.

I think we should all strive for a world free of violence where all martial arts would become like Tai Chi, a former martial art which is now simply a good way to exercise.

[CreekDog]

105. you're saying that dozens of people who read your own writing misunderstood

because of something they lacked?

everyone's talking about what you wrote and you're putting it on them for not understanding what (you say) you meant?

[CajunBlazer]

109. Go count the individuals, not the number of their posts, who complaining again

and compare that number to those posts from individuals who have been supportive. Then add that to the the supportive emails I have received about OP. Then compare that to the over 1000 views of the original post made by people who have not complained. Perhaps then you won't automatically think that your views are in the majority.

Just because a few people in a crowd of thousands are the only ones screaming, doesn't mean that the crown agrees with them.

[Squinch]

139. Yes, that is exactly what he is saying.

Also, he's saying that women are completely lacking in common sense, and he needs to remind us not to do really stupid things that no one does, and we should really listen to him about this because he's an expert.

I know I'm going to stop seeking out dark alleys when I am wearing high heels and earbuds from now on. Because that shit used to be my hobby! Who knew?

[LiberalElite]

145. Perhaps posting in the Women's World Group

(yes it's DU) would be less contentious.

[CreekDog]

104. apparently you think a discussion of guns is what's missing from this thread

Eleanor's 38.



(disclaimer: no guns were harmed in the writing of this post)

[Eleanors38]

107. Actually, You brought up guns. So it surely qualifies for GD, right?

I hear being part of group decision-making is no fun. Unless you get to overrule everyone.



Creek.

Please note a veteran Host of GD broached the subject of "guns" and its appropriateness for discussion in this forum.

[madville]

66. We have mandatory sexual assault prevention training at work

We are required to take it every year, there are many similarities to your article.

There are two big differences, our training places a significant importance on the role alcohol/drugs play in many instances of rape. Don't accept drinks from strangers, never leave your drink unattended, go out drinking in trusted groups, don't get overly intoxicated, make it known immediately and out loud if you suspect you have been drugged, etc.

The other difference is ours is aimed at both women and men, male-male rape is severely under-reported and not an uncommon occurrence. I understand your angle though since you are specifically aiming it at women from the self defense perspective.

[etherealtruth]

121. We do, too ....

The major focus is 'No means no' and making sure one has clear "permission" before engaging in any sexual acts with anyone.

Other big issues are associated with reporting and complicity associated with cover ups.

Mercifully, the emphasis is on those that would be rapists or engage in other sexual misconduct (harassment, molestation ...)

[Rex]

67. Looks like the master is getting schooled in DU 101.

Last edited Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

Goodluck.

[CajunBlazer]

76. I think that would be DU 101, real life isn't like this

[Rex]

77. Whoops, my mistake yeah I meant DU 101.

I can't believe I typed Life 101...

[CajunBlazer]

83. Yea, I've read some of your other posts...

... and knew you are smarter than that. I certainly hoped you didn't regard DU as being anything like real life. That would be

[Rex]

91. I knew as soon as I read the title

you would be in line for a DU ass kicking! Good thing you are a master of the martial arts you will need that skill now more than ever.

In all seriousness, I think some of these posters are rape victims and so are taking this very personally for obvious reasons. Also, something I learned a long time ago, DU is the center of the world - until it is not.

[closeupready]

111. +1. DU is a message board that thinks it's not.

[Inkfreak]

70. I saw this thread going this way as soon as I read the title.

Women learning self defense is a good thing. I hope my daughter takes an interest in it. My niece is in karate currently. She recently took part in the nationals in Florida this year. She medaled twice. Gold & silver.

[CajunBlazer]

87. I taught Karate for about 8 years and I hope someday to make time for that again

It is simply one of the great things you an do for your kids if they are so inclined, especially for girls. Everyone should know how to defend themselves, but the best thing that kids get out of martial arts is confidence which seems to spread to every part of their lives - home, school, relationships, and future endeavors throughout for years to come. It's like they say to themselves, if I could do that, I can do anything. Some of the kids I taught through black belt are now young adults and they have gown up to be great people. Teaching was very satisfying; it's amazing what a positive affect you can have on kids' lives.

[LexVegas]

71. Hey...it's Steven Seagal. nt

[CajunBlazer]

75. You would never mistake me for Steven Seagal

He now weighs close to 300 pounds and used to be good looking.

[Orrex]

82. All this thread needs now is a door buzzard.

[sarisataka]

85. As you wish

[sarisataka]

86. A for effort...

[CajunBlazer]

88. I see your Marine Corp emblem

Thanks for your service

[sarisataka]

90. These days I'm a PFC

Private F******* Civilian; but I still practice and preach situational awareness. To me it is less about paranoia and more about living in the moment.

[CajunBlazer]

100. I was an Air Force officer myself

involved in aircraft maintenance. No one was shooting at me so situational awareness was more about not getting too close to running jet engines, which some ways is just as dangerous.

[CreekDog]

102. and you used the word b-word three times in this thread (you used the actual word)

you just don't seem to get this communication thing.

[CajunBlazer]

110. First of all I don't think you meant to post this on this sub-thread

but never the less - the word I used is "bitching" which is defined as "Repeatedly saying something over and over, or rather whining about it, therefore destroying the point you were trying to make". A perfect word for what I was seeing.

[CreekDog]

116. I posted it in the place I intended

[mwrguy]

94. Step 1: stop teaching men that rape is OK

[closeupready]

99. lol - Exhibit A evidencing the foolishness of wading into gender issues

on DU.

[FLPanhandle]

106. I'm an middle aged guy and this article is just good advice.

The hypersensitivity around here is amazing sometimes.

[Eleanors38]

108. There is among some here a hostility toward self-defense in general.

[CreekDog]

115. No there isn't. There's a hostility towards suggesting that self defense can prevent all rapes

"Eleanor's 38".

One needn't wonder why an argument with someone who has a gun in their screenname isn't productive.

[Eleanors38]

118. Wow! Cajun said SD could defend all rapes?? Problem solved!

Why do you keep bringing up guns? The OP was about SD; in fact martial arts. Gee, Creek.

Well time for one of those and a

[sarisataka]

117. Some are afraid

of escalating, i.e. injuring the attacker, more than what happens to the victim

[Major Nikon]

112. Results...

On Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Women’s Self Defense Against Sexual Assault
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027484293

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

" Don’t put your self in the position of being attacked in the first place. "

"Every evening at about that time she walks, in her high heels, a couple dark, usually deserted city blocks from her work place to the deck where she parks her car. "

No, we don't need to blame the victim here on DU. This is disgusting no matter how the OP tries to sugar coat it downthread. And the OP claims the article as his own.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:39 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is useful information.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Asinine alert. Even RAINN publishes tips on how people can avoid sexual assault. Heels were mentioned later in the link as a detriment to making a quick escape.
http://rainn.org/get-information/sexual-assault-prevention
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is an article about common sense tactics, not victim blaming at all. Sheez.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Can see how this can be taken as insulting. That said, author doesn't appear to be intentionally insulting. Discussion seems better route than hide.

[Eleanors38]

119. I think it's the high heels thing...

I took this to mean that this foot wear compromises the flight defense. Criminals look for vulnerabilities. A guy in a chair is seemingly vulnerable, a young, strong kid with buds in his ears is vulnerable, a confident woman texting fervently is vulnerable. An old fart in flip-flops (it was me!) is vulnerable. I prefer my steel-toed Doc Martens since I can't run for shit anyway.

[Major Nikon]

120. There's a lot to be said for a good pair of steel-toes

I have a couple of pairs of boots that I could use to kick a helluva dent in a car door without ever feeling it. It wouldn't take much to do a number on someone's shin bone.

[Eleanors38]

152. Side benefit: Someone tries to stomp your foot. NT

[LexVegas]

122. The term "bitch" or "bitching" to describe criticism is derived from a sexist slur.

Not surprised it is acceptable here.

[beam me up scottie]

123. "see if you can determine what this women is doing wrong"

She was born female?

You're just making friends all over the place aren't you?

[CajunBlazer]

124. Well, it's been a real education

Regards of your good intentions, you can be sure someone will find a way to be offended.

Yes, in hindsight I can understand how some, especially on this board's "Don't Blame the Victim" crowd, might have found fault, though I have taught the course many women and never once got that reaction. On the other hand, after I posted several times, "No, no, it wasn't meant that way. Please overlook what you find offensive and maybe you can learn something", it still continued with some trying to find obscure reasons to find fault. How many ways can people find to write the same thing in different ways.

I am now convinced that there was no way to write that piece, no matter how carefully it was done, where someone would be offended. Apparently though almost 200,000 sexual assaults are reported in this country each year, and many more apparently go unreported, we are not mature enough on this board to have a civil discussion about how some assaults might be prevented because are so ticked off about how discussions about assaults were handled in the past.

Before I started teaching this course, I sat in on many such classes taught by my instructor over the years. However, due to the seriousness of the situation, I wasn't content to simply repeat what he had been teaching. I consulted the writing of experts in this field from across the country.

Every suggestion made in those notes is the consensus opinions of many experts in the field of sexual assault criminal behavior. Those include many of the which fundamental which are taught by women experts to other women. These include "don't wear high heels when you are walking in dangerous situations because you can't run very fast in them". This is just common sense, yet some see it as an insult. I found it insteresting that not one person objected to a similar suggestion, "walk confidently, like you are no one to mess with" or the part where I wrote that you should fight with all means possible being put in a car. I guess that those suggestions didn't fit the "its the woman's fault that she is the a victim" narrative the complainers were selling.

I am truly disappointed in the manner in which some people on this board have reacted. If you persist in continually finding bad intentions where absolutely none exist because you have hang ups on certain issues, you will end up giving all of us in the progressive movement a bad name.

[Orrex]

125. You haven't learned how to take responsibility, that much is clear

Even now, you blame your readers for reading what you wrote rather than imagining what you intended.

Maybe some day, when you've matured as a writer, you'll understand how the process works. Or maybe not, because you certainly have no ear for criticism. That, too, comes with maturity as a writer.

[CajunBlazer]

126. And you are an athortity on this? Or you just defending your position yet again?

I don't tout this as my best work by any means; I just thought it would be useful to someone, If it keeps one woman from being assaulted, or if emboldens one woman to fight off an attacker, all of the BS will have been worth it.

If you want to see some of my better work, go to cajunscomments.com and read through some of the articles. I certainly don't claim it is the best progressive blog by any means, but I do average between 3,500 and 5,500 unique visitors a month according to my blog statistics so somebody out there likes my writing.

[Orrex]

127. I can handle criticism of my writing, and I can admit error when I'm wrong.

Of the two of us, I'd say I'm definitely able to speak with more authority on matters of writing and critique.


Anything else you'd like me to clear up for you?

[CajunBlazer]

130. I don't tout this as my best work by any means;

I just thought it would be useful to someone, If it keeps one woman from being assaulted, or if emboldens one woman to fight off an attacker, all of the BS will have been worth it.

If you want to see some of my better work, go to cajunscomments.com and read through some of the articles. I certainly don't claim it is the best progressive blog by any means, but I do average between 3,500 and 5,500 unique visitors a month according to my blog statistics so somebody out there likes my writing.

Perhaps you can point me to a site were I can read some of your work.

[Orrex]

140. My writing is not at issue here, but if you search DU, you'll find samples.

If you want to turn this into a pissing contest, go for it. I can take criticism.

I just thought it would be useful to someone, If it keeps one woman from being assaulted, or if emboldens one woman to fight off an attacker, all of the BS will have been worth it.

Even now you are petty and defensive. Not once in this thread have you said "you know, maybe I should reconsider how I phrased that." Instead, you immediately blame your readers because you failed to convey what you think you wanted to convey.

And, conversely, you might consider that the "woman as victim" vibe, clear as it is to some vocal readers here, might actually repel women who could otherwise have benefited from your advice. Is it worth it to dig in your heels and insist that your readers are "bitching," if it means that you're turning away those who might potentially have gained?

Step one in improving your writing is learning to accept criticism. Attacking in response to criticism is amateurish at best, and it suggests profound insecurity in one's work.

Look, take my advice or don't. But lots of low-end writing gets tons of views, so that's no real measure of quality.

I don't doubt that you're a terrific karate person and you could kick my ass from ten miles away, but that's not relevant here. We're talking about basic composition and whether or not you want to sharpen that skill.

[CajunBlazer]

143. What I have notice is that we both have trouble with continuing to argue long after...

we have we have started to repeat ourselves. If you want to critique my writing go to my blog read some of my articles and then give me your frank appraisal. The link is in my signature. Otherwise I am done with reading your condescending posts. Goodbye

[Orrex]

144. I've given you my frank appraisal, and still you attack.

Good luck in overcoming that amateurish tendency.

[Oneironaut]

151. "Regards of your good intentions, you can be sure someone will find a way to be offended."

Welcome to the internet!

[lovemydog]

128. K & R

Jui Jitsu and other forms of self-defense classes are also great for kids to prevent bullying.

If you have a local place like that, ask them to give occasional free seminars. Team up with an anti-bullying person like maybe a local educator. It's often an adult who was once bullied. It will help them increase business and they'll be doing the community a great favor.

They don't train you to go beat people up. It's about building self-confidence and learning how to avoid being bullied. It works for all genders and ages.

[CajunBlazer]

132. On this we can certainly agree

i taught karate for eight years to kids and their parents and I found that martial arts is great for kids of all ages. The self confidence they develop in all phase of their lives is truly amazing. Adults, especially women for some reason, have similar results. I wish that more people could understand that kids in karate are taught to avoid fights. They don't have to fight for two reasons: 1) once it gets around that they taking karate courses, the would be bullies respect them more and 2) even when they are pushed by others to fight they can decline with dignity, because they know they would win.

[lovemydog]

134. Definitely.

A buddy teaches such classes. He was bullied when he was a child. He gives free confidential meetings, with a free class, to anyone who wants to talk about it. You'd be surprised how many are younger men, too. My buddy always knows to run away from any situation in which someone could have a knife or gun. They train people at his gym, like you say, gaining self confidence in all phases of their lives.

[CajunBlazer]

142. I was trained and taught defenses against a knive and a gun, but...

we also teach to run like hell if you have a chance when confronted by someone with such weapons. Endless hours of practice against knives and guns reduce, but by no means eliminate your chances of not living through an attack with those weapons.

If I had no absolutely no choice in the matter I would rather go up against a knife, because unless the aggressor is very good with the weapon, with a little luck I should be able disarm him. On the other hand I have to realize going in that I am probably going to get cut, maybe badly; I need make dang sure its not in a vital area or I am gong to die. I like the running option much better if I am given a chance to do so.

I would never try to go against a gun unless I was sure that the bastard was going to shoot me no matter what I did. Thanks heavens not many people would want my body and if they want my money, they are welcome to it. The bad thing about a guy with a gun with bad intentions of using it is that if you run you are likely to get shot in the back. If I had no choice and had to go up against someone with a gun I would have to pray that I am close enough to an attacker to be effective. Not much of a chance, but a small chance is better than none at all.

Most of all, like the advice gave in the women's sell defense post, I try my best never, ever to put myself in such situation. I hope and pray that I never have to use my skills in any situation. But it is nice to know that I have them handy if they are ever needed.

[lovemydog]

131. CajunBlazer, I'm sorry you're being met

with so much fear and ignorance.

You're reaching people who read this.

Keep up the positive messages.

Happy new year!

[CajunBlazer]

133. Thanks much for the kiind words. Happy New year to you as well! (n/t)

[Nye Bevan]

141. Sad to see good advice being met with so much hostility.

One time I posted about warning my daughter about the dangers of "date rape" drugs being slipped in drinks when she went off to college. And of course I was accused of "victim blaming", I kid you not.

[Justina For Justice]

149. Thank You For a Helpful Post, Sorry Your Reward was To Be Attacked for It.

Thank you for this helpful article. I had no trouble all reading your writing or divining that your intended mission was to be of service. I'm astounded that some of the comments to your post could be so utterly dumb, if not downright malicious.

I'm female in my late sixties who has lived in the heart of several high crime areas in the U.S. and several foreign countries without ever encountering much trouble

Well, one day a guy did stick a gun in my belly while i was seated on a bus in Venezuela, but the guy got scared away when other passengers started screaming. Looking back, I realize that I had not been in my usually "situationally alert" mode, though luck, not good management, saved me anyway. That incident did inspire me never to wear good jewelry in public or carry much money in my bag. I designed underpants with pockets to put my "big" money and passport in to wear thereafter.

I read your article because, in my experience, it is always good to be frequently reminded of preventative measures and mentally rehearse them. So thank you for posting and linking to your original article. This can be a dangerous world, and such reminders help to keep one situationally aware. Sorry you had to be so abused in the process of providing such help. DU can get absurdly crazy sometimes.