Why is it we allow people to fly the Confedrerate Flag?

[dballance]

Germany had the good since to outlaw the Nazi flag. But for some reason we, in the US, continue to allow state governments to fly the confederate flag or incorporate it into their own flags or media. Why the heck do we continue to allow a symbol of revolt and revolution to be displayed?

You GOP thugs want to waste my tax dollars debating women's health? Well f-you. Let's debate preventing any likeness of the confederate flag being used on any local, state or federal grounds since it is a representation of treason to the US.

[cynatnite]

1. Freedom of expression no matter how distasteful the message. n/t

[DontTreadOnMe]

3. It's not freedom of expression if it uses public funding!

Maybe we need to design a new flag... call it the "Sherman Flag"... and the design will be a southern state map with the states burning... that would go over well. It's my "cultural heritage" as a Connecticut Yankee.

[cynatnite]

7. Are you talking about state flags?

Do you support the government telling states what flags they're allowed to fly?

[virgogal]

8. Go for it. Lots of Dixie folk don't

like us . (I'm from MA)

[Fawke Em]

92. Dixie folk here. Married to a Boston boy.

Not sure what stereotype you're using.

[Adsos Letter]

116. Not exactly a stereotype, in my recent experience.

My wife and I just returned from a two-week road trip through Virginia, North and South Carolina, and a corner of eastern Tennessee. We met many wonderful people...until we got to Fredericksburg, Virginia, on this past Memorial Day weekend.

The National Park Service had helped set up a display of luminaries at the national cemetery in the Fredericksburg National Battlefield Park; my wife and I went to experience this event, as this battlefield was one I had wanted to visit for many years, and the luminary display promised to be quite impressive.

We got there early evening, shortly before the ceremony was to start. We drove a rental car with Tennessee plates, and the gathering crowd absorbed us as one of their own...until I started talking to my wife (saying things like "Wow, how cool is this?" or "Let me get your picture in front of this wall," etc.); nothing in the least bit political or aimed at anything about the South, other than the beauty we saw there. In fact, pretty much the kind of comments I noticed others making.

Apparently my non-Southern accent was enough to damn me in the eyes of several people within earshot. Lots of smiles turned to subtle and not-so-subtle glares, and comments about "yankees." One older guy walked over with his dog (on a leash) an told my wife, to her face, that his "dog didn't like Yankees," and that we should "watch out" because "he bites." He said this to her twice, and in no joking fashion. After the second time, I asked him to leave us alone.

Oh my! Ask some bigoted jerk to leave my wife alone and the glares, comments, etc. REALLY started. God forbid a "yankee' should defend his wife on southern soil. We finally left, having been made to feel entirely unwelcome; not by everyone, but by entirely too many.

Until that experience at Fredericksburg last weekend I had come to believe that overt hatred for Yankees really was a stereotype. I no longer think that. It may not apply to you personally, but it is certainly more accurate than I would have previously believed.

EDITED TO ADD: Having thought about it since posting...I believe my protest regarding stereotyping is inaccurate; certainly, the majority of people we met on our trip were delightful folks. If they held any negative thoughts about people from outside the South, it certainly wasn't evinced by their words or actions toward us. I also know several people on this board who live in the South, and seem to be great people. I was, however, surprised to see the level of dislike evinced by several people at the Fredericksburg gathering. It is certainly wrong to stereotype all southerners as yankee-hating bigots, but there appeared to be several in that crowd.

[onenote]

17. Interesting take on what constitutes freedom of expression

[RZM]

2. This again?

The reason is this little thing called the first amendment. We have the right to fly any flag we choose. And I support that right 100 percent, with absolutely no exceptions.

And it the decision to ban the Nazi Party and all associated images was not taken by Germans alone. Germany was occupied and de-Nazified (at least partly) by the Allies after the war.

[just1voice]

105. Yes this again, the enslavement of an entire race of people is worth discussing

and outlawing in all its forms.

[RZM]

113. This isn't a discussion about slavery

Its about a piece of cloth with dye on it. We don't ban that type of thing here.

[backscatter712]

4. They have the right to fly it... I have the right to desecrate it!

Ah, gotta love how the flag of slavery and treason is so revered in this country!

[GoneOffShore]

69. I'm right with you.

[DavidDvorkin]

73. You don't have a right to vandalize someone's property because their opinions are offensive.

[backscatter712]

74. If I buy my own confederate flag, I can burn it, piss on it, do whatever I want to disrespect it. nt

[DavidDvorkin]

76. Of course, if it's your property.

I read your post as meaning that you had the right to vandalize someone else's flag.

Sorry for the misinterpretation.

[H2O Man]

5. gosh

[cali]

6. that 1st amendment is a pesky little thing, isn't it?

[Bandit]

35. Try using your first amendment rights to advocate for Al qaeda or fly their flag

See where that gets you...

[former9thward]

39. Your First amendment?

I guess you have opted out of it. Well thankfully you have a first amendment right to disregard the first amendment in your personal life. I remember the Vietnam demonstrations where many people had Viet Cong flags. They were allowed to do that.

[cali]

56. does Al qaeda have a flag?

and people advocate for al-qaeda in this country.

[Zalatix]

84. Yup, and Al Qaeda killed a lot FEWER Americans than the Confederates did.

[treestar]

103. You could. You would attract attention, but would not be arrested until

you'd actually committed a crime or more accurately, the government had enough evidence of probable cause that you did.

[Hippo_Tron]

129. Probably gets you put under surveillance by the FBI, but it isn't a crime by itself

[elleng]

94. Yes, cali, always has been.

A difficult concept for many to accept.

[JitterbugPerfume]

9. well, it IS another country's flag

The Confederacy succeeded from the union and formed another country that went to WAR with us. That flag has nothing to do with America, even if the south is now part of the USA .t wasn't THEN.

[razorman]

15. That was sort of the basis for argument. The U.S. maintained that the Confederacy was not

actually a sovereign country. They went to war to "preserve the union".

[JitterbugPerfume]

26. you are right razorman , it was to preserve the union

but the truth of the matter is they had a President and a congress seperate from the northern states. They had to walk a very thin line concerning the Confederacy

can o' worms

[razorman]

96. Agreed. The Confederacy considered themselves legitimate. The U.S. did not. Both sides each

believed themselves to be the true inheritors of the American Revolution, and the faith-holders of the founding fathers. For instance, both sides celebrated Independence Day on the 4th of July.

[XemaSab]

10. Um, first amendment much?

Let's lock up all the people who fly the confederate flag and use the word nigger (even the black people) and espouse anti-gay rhetoric, and then in 8 years when we have another republican president he can lock up all the people who say that the American agriculture industry is corrupt and that fossil fuels are killing us and that the American military is a force for evil in the world.

You really want to go there?

I don't.

I think the first amendment is the best thing we have going for us.

[virgogal]

11. It's not just the GOP. The old southern Democrats loved the reb flag.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Yes, it's a symbol of revolt and revolution

But more importantly, it's a symbol of racism.

[alphafemale]

13. Why ban it? It is really convenient when idiots self-identify

That said, I worked years back to get what is commonly called the confederate battle flag symbol removed from the GA State flag.

I'd never try to stop private citizens from displaying it though. For the very reason mentioned above.

[MrSlayer]

14. That pesky first amendment.

You can fly any flag you want here, burn em too.

[Iggo]

16. Constitution.

Right near the front.

[DrDan]

18. you are equating the nazi flag to the confederate flag?

nazis to confederates?

[Cali_Democrat]

19. I'd say it's a pretty good comparison

Both the Nazis and Confederates were extremely racist and started wars of aggression.

[XemaSab]

21. You think the north has never been racist?

[Cali_Democrat]

24. No

Of course it has

[Zalatix]

85. The Union outlawed slavery. The Confederacy fought for it.

Nope, no difference between the two at all.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

121. The union outlawed slavery to kneecap the southern economy. It was extremely strategic.

The southern economy was extremely dependant on slave labor.
Take away a country's economy and you remove their ability to sustain a war.

[Zalatix]

132. I know that, but it still doesn't make the North the same as the South.

Abraham Lincoln himself admitted he'd keep slavery if it would save the Union. I also know that slavery was destroying the working class in the North who had to compete with slave wages (as in, free). This motivated a lot of opposition to slavery.

However, a lot of abolitionists were based up north, and their motivations were largely moral.

There were fundamental differences between the North, which was still fairly racist, and the South, which was far moreso.

[Uncle Joe]

22. It's a good thing the United States was never racist nor started wars of aggression.

This makes it easier to have a righteous sleep at night.

[H2O Man]

23. Perfect response!

Thanks.

[RZM]

25. You could say the same thing about many other states

France didn't abolish slavery for good until not that long before the US Civil War. And Napoleon launched wars of aggression as well. So why not compare the Confederacy to 19th century France? At least there we're talking about the same century.

Another day, another failed Nazi comparison.

[Cali_Democrat]

27. "You could say the same thing about many other states"

You're absolutely correct. The Nazis are not all that unique in history. The United States has had Nazi-like policies before and conducted Nazi-like wars.

[RZM]

29. So then why not compare the Confederacy to the North? n/t

[Cali_Democrat]

31. Because the post I responded to only mentioned the confederacy

Any other questions?

[RZM]

33. Yes

Fuckin' magnets . . . How do they work?

[Cali_Democrat]

34. Sorry

I can't see your video because the firewall at my work blocks streaming video.

Have a nice day.

[snooper2]

37. What are you doing playing on the Intertubes at work?

Get back to work!

[Puregonzo1188]

59. Nazism was for all practical purposes the continuation of the logic of colonialism.

Invade and annex other people's land, wipe out whole populations, racism, etc. are not unique to the Nazis.

[RZM]

65. That's only partly true

Colonialism was a vastly complex phenomenon. Even if you just restrict it to the most apt comparative framework (the 'new imperialism' of the late 19th/early 20th centuries, which the Germans themselves engaged in), it doesn't really work in most circumstances.

Yes, it was racist. And yes, native populations were sometimes subject to brutal campaigns of violence (notably the German genocide against the Herero in Africa). And yes, the whole thing was shameful, exploitative, and demeaning. But there are key differences with the Nazis. On the whole, most colonial powers tended to seek some sort of accommodation with local populations, particularly local elites. Hence the concept of 'indirect rule,' where the colonial power would vest authority in the elites and allow them to do much of the administration. And there were some ways in which colonies benefited from the foreign presence, notably things like medicine, education, and infrastructure.

Note that I am NOT arguing that this was a good thing. What I am arguing is that colonialism in places like Egypt, India, and Senegal did not have a whole lot in common with Nazi policies in places like Poland and the USSR, where the Germans sought no legitimacy and little cooperation. Their intention was to mostly eliminate or expel the local population, reduce the rest to slavery, and settle the land with ethnic Germans. For instance, German plans for the USSR called for the war to be won by Autumn and then for roughly 30 million Soviet citizens be forcibly starved to death in the winter of 1941-42. That was not the typical colonial policy for countries like Britain and France. Again, that's not to say their policies were good, but you're hard-pressed to find many such examples in the wave of imperial expansion that I'm referring to.

[Puregonzo1188]

109. I agree with you that colonialism was a complex phenomenon, but what about say the Vichy government

where the Nazi's occupied France and set up a collaboratist regime? And on the flip side, not all colonial regimes followed the model you described. What about Spain in the Western Hemisphere where entire populations where largely wiped out and settler-colonial societies were set up?

I agree colonialism is complex and there may or may not be a perfect analogy to what the Nazi's did with another colonial society, but I will argue that much of the Nazi program was an extension and continuation of the earlier colonial practices and that ultimately Nazism was a colonialist project.

[RZM]

115. Both of those examples were outside of my framework

I was speaking more of the last phase of colonial expansion and Nazi policies in the east. While Nazi rule in France wasn't fun and was deadly to the Jewish population, it was quite different than their occupation regimes in the East.

There are some parallels of course. But such things are rarely simple.

[elleng]

95. racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy,

compared with control by one power over a dependent area or people

[bluedigger]

82. In the South, the Civil War is referred to as the "Northern" War of Aggression.

They were conducting a war of secession, not aggression. Just look where most of the battles were.

[Ter]

120. The North started the war

The South wanted to form its own country. Result was 600,000 dead and division to this day. Was it worth it?

[backscatter712]

52. I'll make that comparison!

[Nye Bevan]

54. I fervently wish that that was all the Nazis did (nt)

[Puregonzo1188]

60. I think the word Holocaust pretty aptly describes chattel slavery.

As many others have pointed out this practice was not unique to the Confederacy or even the US. The US didn't even practice the worst forms of slavery.

[baldguy]

58. Google "Andersonville Prison"

[Tom Ripley]

98. The Nazis had numerous technological innovations and changed the map of Europe...

while the confederates invented a submarine that sank and couldn't even conquer Pennsylvania.
So, you may have a point there...

[treestar]

104. Why not?

Anything can be compared and contrasted.

But the real issue is that Germany can ban the Nazi flag. Our government doesn't have that kind of power.

[DrDan]

106. the real issue is that there are idiots that see no difference between the nazis and confederates

[backscatter712]

114. Oh please. Both the Nazis and Confederates committed unspeakable atrocities.

The only difference was that the Nazis had higher technology, and were able to industrialize their atrocities more efficiently.

[DrDan]

117. oh please - not comparable at all

[treestar]

123. Of course they can be compared

You may compare them and find the Nazis worse.

Comparing is not "declaiming to be identical."

[treestar]

122. Of course there is a difference

but there could be similarities too. Those are the basis of comparison.

[DrDan]

124. as are there similarities with any other nation/group

[RebelOne]

20. I worked for a while at a North Georgia flea market

and we sold flags, T-shirts, knives and sunglasses. And the flags would sell like hot cakes. We could not even keep them in stock. Also, American flags were big sellers. There were other Confederate flags which were big sellers. I was working for someone else and had no control as to what was stocked. This was in an area with a lot of Georgia rednecks.

[slackmaster]

28. Our own flag is the ultimate symbol of revolt and revolution

Should we ban the British, Japanese, and German flags?

Let's debate preventing any likeness of the confederate flag being used on any local, state or federal grounds since it is a representation of treason to the US.

Not that it's likely to change dballiance's mind, here is the actual definition of treason from our Constitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Because we are not at war with the Confederate States of America (and because it no longer exists), it is no longer an enemy. So, even "adhering" to it cannot possibly be regarded as treason.

[XemaSab]

32. The California flag says "California Republic" on it

We may be a team player now, but it wasn't always that way.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. I've always wondered about the wording on the California flag

I don't think California was ever a republic in the sense that Texas was for 9 years. It was Mexican territory until 1848 (although some American military man jumped the gun and claimed it for the US in 1846 at Monterrey), then it became a state in 1850. Maybe the locals thought "California Territory" was beneath their dignity?

[XemaSab]

66. For two years we were a republic

but I get the strong sense that we were hoping that the US would let us join.

[Art_from_Ark]

70. Doing a little checking,

I found that the "California Republic" was indeed connected with the events of 1846, while California was still Mexican territory, but the "republic" only lasted about 3 weeks. California became just another territory as a result of the Mexican Cession, but its fast population growth resulting from the 1849 Gold Rush led to its becoming a state in 1850.

[XemaSab]

71. 2 years, 3 weeks... same dif

[BOG PERSON]

30. because Reconstruction didn't go far enough?

[Johnny Rico]

36. Darn that 1st Amendment!

[HopeHoops]

38. No different than a flag that says "I'M A STUPID DOUCHEBAG" - both get the message across.

[RC]

40. The convoluted thinking to defend a racist rebel flag is a thing of wonder.

What do other countries have to do with this? The arguments to ban States from displaying the Confederate flag can stand on their own.
Some states do have law against flying it.

It is still against federal law for the Confederate flag to be associated, in any manner, with any public building in this country. In order for the Confederate states to be readmitted to the Union, they had to individually ratify the Civil War Amendments: the 13th, 14th and 15th. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the 13th Amendment not only proscribes the institution of slavery, but also prohibits all "badges and incidents of slavery." In addition, the 14th Amendment prohibits racially discriminatory state actions, including any expression of racial supremacy.
http://www.cultural-expressions.com/thesis/confederate.htm

he Confederate battle flag, called the "Southern Cross" or the cross of St. Andrew, has been described variously as a proud emblem of Southern heritage and as a shameful reminder of slavery and segregation. In the past, several Southern states flew the Confederate battle flag along with the U.S. and state flags over their statehouses. Others incorporated the controversial symbol into the design of their state flags. The Confederate battle flag has also been appropriated by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, more than 500 extremist groups use the Southern Cross as one of their symbols.
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/confederate1.html

The Louisiana Supreme Court released its opinion in State of Louisiana versus Felton Dorsey yesterday, September 7, 2011. In a section titled “Endemic Racism,” the Court addressed the claim that the “presence of a confederate flag memorial outside the courthouse in Caddo Parish injects an arbitrary factor-race-into the capital sentencing decision.” The opinion acknowledged “the display of a confederate flag would be offensive to some” citing cases from the 4th and 11th Circuit Courts that recognized that “the confederate flag has multiple ‘emotionally charged’ meanings and is viewed by some as a symbol of white supremacy” and that “It is the sincerely held view of many Americans, of all races, that the confederate flag is a symbol of racial separation and oppression… it is not an irrational inference that one who displays the confederate flag may harbor racial bias against African-Americans.”

The Supreme Court recognized that race should never play a role in capital proceedings, but held that the issue was not “properly before it”, because defense counsel failed to raise an objection to the presence of the Flag at the time of trial. The Court stated that hearings should be conducted at the trial level as to the adverse effect of the flag on the “administration of the criminal justice system with respect to black defendants” before it would address the issue on appeal.
http://louisianajusticeinstitute.blogspot.com/2011/09/struggle-against-confederate-flag-at.html


A bust of a Confederate general is mounted at each corner. Stonewall Jackson stares to the north. Pierre Beauregard looks east. Henry Watkins Allen stands guard to the west. And Robert E. Lee watches south. Atop the monument stands a proud confederate soldier, holding a rifle. He is unnamed, presumably to represent everyman. Or, rather, every white man...

The flag itself is the Third National Flag of the Confederacy—the “blood-stained banner.” This flag was developed during the last throes of the Confederacy as a way to incorporate the battle flag (the St. Andrew’s Cross) with a red stripe running down the edge to symbolize the Confederates’ willingness to die for their cause. Shreveport—the last capital of the Confederate States—raises this flag in defiance of the fact that the war is over, and its cause lost.

This flag and monument, however, are not a part of a museum, or a freestanding monument apart from government property. Flanked by ancient live oaks, it stands as the only structure on the courthouse lawn at the Caddo Parish Courthouse. Every person summoned for jury duty, as well as every judge, clerk, employee, attorney, guard, police officer, and defendant must pass beneath the flag and monument.
http://louisianajusticeinstitute.blogspot.com/2011/05/confederate-justice-in-caddo-parish.html

[RZM]

42. No it isn't. The OP is talking about 'people,' not 'states'

They appear to take issue with the individual right to display the flag. I don't see how it takes 'convoluted thinking' to argue that it's protected speech for an individual to fly whatever flag they choose.

[slackmaster]

43. There is a HUGE difference between flying a flag on a government building vs an individual flying it

Kind of like the difference between a state declaring an official religion and an individual choosing one.

The real convoluted logic in this discussion is entirely on the side that is trying to justify censorship. Bad ideas and symbols associated with bad ideas are permitted in this country because freedom of thought and speech are protected.

Say what you want about the tenets of the Confederacy - At least it was an ethos.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. Which states have laws against display the Confederate flag

And which flag is banned?

[onenote]

126. I've seen the claim that there is a federal law banning the display of the confederate flag

on public buildings, but I've never seen a specific reference to this supposed law. That's because, as far as I can tell, there is no such law.

[libinnyandia]

41. I don't like the confederate flag. It is a reminder of the treason of the South. What really

angered me was the party they held in South Carolina to celebrate the anniversary of the first acts of treason of the Civil War.

[Speck Tater]

44. When my son first moved to the south 15 years ago...

his first reaction to the Civil War obsession was that "these people really can't seem to get over it and just move on."

What we are seeing is the same thing that keeps hatred alive in the Middle East. Each new generation is taught to hate based on some wrong committed anywhere from a hundred to a few thousand years ago by people who are long dead. These people are effectively driving down the freeway at 12 miles per hour in reverse, with their eyes so sharply focused on the distant past they can't even glimpse what the future looks like. And they don't really give a damn about the trail of hatred and destruction they leave in their wake.

[Puregonzo1188]

61. I am not really sure I see your connection to the Middle East.

Is this some sort of failed Israel-Palestine analogy or what?

[Speck Tater]

88. Ancient history used to justify modern hatred.

The flames of ancient tribal rivalries kept fanned by teaching each new generation to hate others based on something that happened generations ago. Babies born in the south have to be taught to keep those grudges alive. Babies born in the Middle East have to be taught to hate their neighbors. 50 years from now people who have not even been born yet will carry on the tradition of hating because that's what they will be taught to do from the moment they are born.

[Puregonzo1188]

90. You really don't know much about the modern middle east do? The problem isn't some orientalist

garbage about "ancient tribal rivalries" as it the political fall out from the legacy of colonialist/post colonialism, the Cold War, and now the War on Terror.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. Which flag?

Most Americans would not recognize any of the three different national Confederate flags. Instead they would call out the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack.

[Art_from_Ark]

67. You mean the Confederate battle flag?

http://www.civilwarhome.com/battleflag.htm

I think there's a reason why that is the preferred flag among those who can't get over the Civil War.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

75. No, the 2nd Confederate Navy Jack

The battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia was square. The Naval Jack was rectangular. They both had a red field with a blue St Andrews Cross with white stars. Later some units used the form of the naval jack with slightly different coloring.

The article you cite acknowledges at the bottom that it should be square.

About the best synopsis of Confederate flags is on Wikipedia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

[Art_from_Ark]

80. But in your link, the 2nd Navy Jack was also the Battle Flag of Tennessee and other states

Whether navy or army, in my opinion that particular flag has come to be adopted by neo-Confederate sympathizers precisely because it represents the fighting, rather than the more boring administrative, side of the Confederacy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

86. Tennessee units adopted it later, as did others. Sometime square, sometime in part or whole

And the battle flag was incorporated into both the Stainless and Bloodstained Banner.

On DU2 I wrote about a controversy at a local school where the Georgia state flag, which bears a strong resemblance to the real stars and bars was on a students car and it caused no end of hate and discontent.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HardcoreProgressive/8

I still maintain that the best way to manage the "good ole boys heritage" argument is ridicule, not poutrage. Laugh at them, ostracize them, demean them, just don't argue and therefore legitimize them.

Also consider this...if we allow those who are offended to have what offends them removed from public view, what about the rainbow flag or the pan African flags or symbols? If we take a social (vice formal) approach to express disapproval, it will be much more effective with no 1st Amendment issues.

[RZM]

87. Exactly

One you enshrine your personal prejudices in law, it's only a matter of time before somebody turns those laws against you. That's why we have such a broad interpretation of free speech. It's the only way to go. Too many people think the way to counter speech is to shut it down. The right solution isn't less speech, but more speech.

[white_wolf]

72. I thought what was commonly called the Cpnfederate Flag was the...

battle flag of the Army of Northern Virgina. Which ever it is, I see it way too much. My brother has a damn "Sons of the Confederate Veterans" license plate. If I ever find out that we aren't descended from them, I'm suing for libel.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

77. The Battle Flag was square, the Naval Jack rectangular

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America has a really good write up on the various flags used.

Almost no one would recognize the "The stars and bars" today as being the first flag of the Confederacy.

[cleanhippie]

48. For the same reason we let people believe in the supernatural.

Its a free country.

[Throd]

49. They aren't "allowed" to, they are free to do so.

[MicaelS]

50. The main reason people fly that flag is..

As a gesture of defiance. It pisses other people off. That's it in a nutshell. Flying that flag is a great big "FUCK YOU".

[X_Digger]

51. The same reason we 'allow' people to choose their own religion.

Because the right to free expression exists, and the government hasn't made the case that there's a compelling state interest in restricting this expression, nevermind actually *proving* such.

[badtoworse]

53. It's called living in a free country.

[Odin2005]

55. Anyone who flies that flag is supporting TREASON.

Those vile things should be destroyed.

[RZM]

62. It's treason, then

Seriously, anything that you deem to be supporting treason (that occurred 150 years ago) should be 'destroyed?' Do you not understand the whole point of freedom of speech? You may have your fun repressing the 'traitors,' but in the blink of an eye that same power would be used to repress you. That's why we won't let it in the door.

Our founding fathers were definitely on to something.

[slackmaster]

78. Please define "TREASON" and explain why flying the flag of a defunct former enemy qualifies.

TIA

[Puregonzo1188]

57. The First Amendment. The same reason people get to burn American flags or wave Viet Cong flags.

[Burma Jones]

63. For the same reason you can stick a crucifix in piss and put it in a museum

I wouldn't fly the Confederate Flag, but I'll fight for the right for someone else to do so......

That's what being an American ought to be about, you know......

[apocalypsehow]

64. "Confedrerate" should actually be "Confederate." Beyond referring you to the 1st amendment, that's

all I got.

[Dawson Leery]

68. Rebel losers have the right to fly the confederate rag....flag

and we have the right to (and should) burn it (every year on April April 9th).

[Go Vols]

79. .

http://confederateflagsandthangs.blogspot.com/2011/12/where-southern-honour-has-been.html

[YellowRubberDuckie]

81. Please read the first amendment.

This is what keeps America, well, America. You have to let all the idiots have their racism and stupidity as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else or deprive anyone else of their rights. This is the heart of our country.

[RZM]

83. It's good to see DU standing up for the first amendment

Nobody here likes the Confederate Flag. I saw it way too much growing up in SW Ohio. But most of us here like the first amendment as it's been interpreted by the courts. There aren't many things I'd die for, but one of them is the right of my fellow citizens to do whatever the hell they like. Good on DU for showing strong support for our most cherished rights.

As for everybody else . . . better luck next time.

[Happydayz]

89. It would be nice to get rid of the confederate flag

once and for all. I see that flag way too much here in FL. A couple of years ago, I saw a guy in one of those classy pick-up trucks on huge wheels. He had a rebel flag sticker on the right side of his bumper and a nazi flag sticker on the left side. Both, the nazi and confederate flags need to be done away with. Heritage my ass, its racism pure and simple. A lot of folks keep mentioning the Constitution. Well, the constitution obviously wasn't and still isn't perfect, as it needed and has had amendments.

[Sea-Dog]

91. if you where to ban a flag based on history

there wouldn't be a flag left in the world.

[Go Vols]

101. +1

Wonder if they want to ban this one too,due it being the most associated with the KKK?

[Sea-Dog]

133. exactly

numerous groups use national flags and cultural symbols. I don't buy into everybody that flies the Confedrerate flag to be instantly Tagged as a bigot, although I do see hijacking of flags/symbols by bigots. Known numerous Country and western fans who aren't.

[just1voice]

93. Agreed, it's hate speech and defamation that slanders groups and our government

It's also a form of bullying and bullying is on a lot of people's hot topic list these days too. I don't think it should be legal flying a symbol that represents enslaving a race of people or flying a symbol that represents warring against the United States and killing its citizens.

[onenote]

127. If someone writes a book that casts the Confederacy in a positive light

(fiction or non-fiction), should the book be banned? Should the author be subject to prosecution? Should anyone buying it or reading it be subject to prosecution? Should anyone selling it be subject to prosecution?

First. Amendment.

[hack89]

97. Because we value free speech? nt

[Tom Ripley]

99. Do you mean the "Fuck Brown v. The Board of Education Flag"?

That is when that loser rag actually gained such popularity among cracker necrophiliacs.

[spanone]

100. why is it du is allowed to exist? why can foxnews lie about 'news'.....1st amendment

[bigtree]

102. it's good of them to flag where they are

. . . where they stand; so that the rest of us can accurately gauge the level of their bigotry and ignorance.

[BlueDemKev]

107. Freedom of Speech

Same reason that burning the American flag isn't illegal.....free speech.

[B Calm]

108. The Treasonous Flag should be outlawed!

[onenote]

128. Care to back that up with a reasoned defense of your position?

Such as how flying the flag of a non-existent "enemy" is treason? I have a Union Jack in my house (big fan of the British Invasion -- of the 1960s). Is that treason?

Take another look at your US Constitution and, in particular, at the First Amendment and the Treason clause. You may want to rethink your position.

[Codeine]

130. WHARRGARBL!!!!

[Sea-Dog]

134. could the brittish take the same view and the continued separation day on the 4th July

[kctim]

110. Why?

Because the majority of Americans aren't so petty.

[NeedleCast]

111. First Amendment?

That was an easy question.

[librechik]

112. because we have a right to free expression in the US

and there are always ruthless idiots around to abuse that right and shit on our values.

[One_Life_To_Give]

118. Army of Tennessee flag is the only variant I see much of

Don't know as I have seen either of the three Confederate States Flags outside of a museum.

Might be more difficult to ban all of the individual unit and state flags from the various parts that made up the CSA.

[Go Vols]

119. I see the Army of Tennessee flag here daily,seldom any of the others.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

125. How do you know its not the 2nd Naval Jack instead?

Kudos to you for kmowing that Tennese used a variant of that as well.

[One_Life_To_Give]

131. We on the coasts are liberul

And the Klansmen that co-opted it were conservatives.

[dinopipie]

135. If flying the Confederate Flag is not racist as some claim

and is what they call an expression of their heritage, then those who had relatives who fought for the Union have the right to express their heritage by dealing with those that fly the stars and bars in the EXACT same manner as their relatives did between 1861 and 1865.

Fair is fair right?