Should juvenile drivers who commit intoxication manslaughter be tried as adults?

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

This relates to Ethan Couch, the affluenza teen.

29 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes
	19 (66%)
	No
	10 (34%)
	Other
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[cheapdate]

1. Just a shitty proposition all around. No winners.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. What you said.

[ZombieHorde]

2. I don't think minors should ever be tried as adults.

Our society denies them some rights that adults have based on the reasoning that they aren't mentally developed. In my opinion, if they don't have the rights of adults then they shouldn't have the punishments of adults, no matter how terrible we perceive the crime to be.

[MH1]

16. I agree with you, and voted No in the poll. But -

as a society, we may want to look at how we handle "almost adult" juvenile offenders when it comes to grievous physical harm to others.

I just have the same logic that you do, that there is a reason for a line between considering someone a juvenile or adult, and we shouldn't be crossing it, certainly not for revenge.

And we shouldn't be sending juveniles to adult prisons either.

[ZombieHorde]

27. If we, as a society, decide 17 year olds are old enough to know what they are doing,

then I believe we should consider 17 year olds to be adults and given adult rights.

[stevenleser]

34. We are on the same page here. nt

[silvershadow]

3. No. Their brains are not fully developed. nt

[TipTok]

38. They know that alcohol will impair their ability to drive...

Run em as adults...

[silvershadow]

39. They are not fully developed. Scientifically proven a long time ago now, and recent

findings are moving it from the teens now into the mid-20's in some cases. Additionally some places are moving the smoking age to 21 now. Same, or similar reasons. Certainly my own anecdotal observations seem to indicate that kids might actually be getting more stupid in some ways, but that's just a side note. The science is there. The laws need to catch up to the science.

[TipTok]

42. They know what will happen...

... or are you claiming that a 17 year old doesn't know that drinking will impair their ability to drive?

You can make a claim that they don't care or choose to take the risk but that isn't a mitigating factor.

[silvershadow]

49. Everything I have claimed is in my post. nt

[JI7]

4. yes, along with many other things which result in harm and death to others

[Ex Lurker]

5. Are we talking about a 10 year old or a 17 year old?

Makes a difference to the hypothetical IMNSHO.

If this is about Ethan Couch, fuck him.

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

7. 16 year old in the case of Ethan Couch and Texas

[Reter]

8. How many intoxicated 10 year old drivers have you seen?

Can't imagine there would be many, if any at all.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Each case is on its own merits, but...

in most cases something other than criminal trials should be tried.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

9. The clue is in the word "juvenile".

They are not adults, ergo they should not be tried as adults.

I bet that if you'd left off the "this relates to" line, you'd have gotten a very different response - there is no better way to bias a poll like this.

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

11. I agree, but I wanted my intention of this poll to be known

I was going to write that the affluenza defense was not the reason Couch got probation, but rather it was a function of Texas juvenile law. His family I don't think, quite honestly, is that affluent, otherwise why would the mother commit an adult felony to protect her kid from 120 days in jail? By having the parents pay for his inpatient rehab, versus juvenile hall, the state and county probably saved a lot of money, but I think the state should have confined him until 21 in juvenile hall. I understand the cost is high, but the consequences would have been more rehabilitative without confining him for 20 years. I'll vote other in my poll here.

[Kingofalldems]

12. If he was poor, he would be rotting in jail now.

I think you know that.

How about a thread on the justice system in Texas?

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

14. I agree, with the caveat that I think the Couches are middle class

But I do think if this were a poor minority, the case would have been remanded to adult court.

I may start a thread on Texas justice. Got some free time today.

[elias49]

23. Wow! Middle class? With $30,000 on hand for a trip to Mexico?

And I thought I was middle class...when I go on vacation, I try to have $100 or so in hand for incidentals. (Tolls, bag of Cheetos during a pee-stop,)
Seems to me that the Couchs are something above 'middle-class'. Hence, the origin of the 'affluenza' tag.

[SwankyXomb]

22. If he was black, he'd be on death row.

[bigwillq]

13. Yes (nt)

[Logical]

32. LOL, so "adult" has no meaning to you I guess. nt

[bigwillq]

41. In this case, try as an adult.

It varies by case. I hope this kid rots.

[Logical]

47. LOL, adult age varies? For drinking? Legal documents? Really? Or you just making shit up? nt

[HereSince1628]

15. I think juvenile vs adult court decisions should be made case by case.

I know the result of that won't satisfy all. I know that may result in rulings which I don't always like.

But I don't think justice actually comes one size fits all in black and white packaging.

[ShrimpPoboy]

17. +1

[Logical]

33. It does for most legal things. But not this. Explain why. nt

[HereSince1628]

40. I don't know the legal criteria, I'm just another citizen

I think in this particular case people see vehicular manslaughter due to drunk driving which is greatly aggravated by a claim that the parents wealth prevented the perp from following the law.

I'm not sure the kid actually made that claim, but public attitude toward him is greatly influenced by it.

[MineralMan]

18. My father had this covered.

"If you drink alcohol, son, you lose your driver's license," he said. So, I didn't, because if my father said something, he meant it. I never drank alcohol until I was 21 years old, and never drink any if I'll be driving.

It's very simple. Teenagers are taught about drinking and driving everywhere. They know it's wrong to do that. If they go ahead and do it and kill someone because they were intoxicated, and they're of legal driving age, then I think they can be tried as adults.

It's a very simple equation. If you drink, don't drive. If you drive, don't drink. Not complex. Not difficult to understand, even for a 16-year-old. Some things are simple and clear. This is one of those things.

[Bradical79]

19. In general, no.

There might be exceptions based on circumstances, but in general I'm not a fan of trying a juvenile like an adult.

[hunter]

20. Two shitty things about U.S. culture are minor drivers and students attending high school as adults.

Nobody in regular high school ought to be driving. High schools shouldn't have student parking lots.

Yep, those are two things I'm not going to change because the owners of our society were mostly part of the crowd that made our high schools shitty for everyone else.

The affluent might accuse people who feel as I do of some kind of envy, maybe tell me to get past my own shitty high school experiences, but I actually feel sorry for the "affluenza" kids. Many of them never grow up.

[aikoaiko]

21. Voted yes, but it depends on facts of case.

In the Ethan Couch case (borrowed from wiki):

1. Couch drove himself to school at the age of thirteen and was disciplined by the school to the unhappiness of the parents.

2. Couch was cited for "minor in consumption of alcohol" and "minor in possession of alcohol," after he was caught in a parked pick-up truck with a naked, passed out 14-year-old girl. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to probation, a compulsory alcohol awareness class, and 12 hours of community service.

3. In the crash where he killed four people, he had just stolen 2 cases of beer and was 70 miles per hour in a designated 40 miles per hour zone. Three hours after the incident, he had a blood alcohol content of 0.24 and tested positive for Valium.

In the Couch case, he had screwed up before with alcohol and cars and was given leniency by the courts. This 16 year old deserved to be treated as adult for the safety of the community and himself.

[KentuckyWoman]

24. I voted yes BUT

only because in some situations that is the only way to get appropriate education and counseling for the teen in question. Court systems and juries do the best they can with the tools they are given.

Now that said, when you have a minority teen being tried as adult in a primarily white run system, we need better checks and balances in these case. There is just too much racism in the system to trust the right thing is being done to save a teen from being thrown in jail and written off.

[LeftishBrit]

25. I don't think juveniles should ever be tried as adults...

However, I also think that juveniles should not be driving in the first place. Raise the driving age to 18.

[TeddyR]

26. Ask the family

Of the 4 people killed by Couch for their opinion. If you are old enough to drive a car while drunk and kill 4 people then you are old enough to be tried as an adult for the murder of the 4 people you killed, not to mention the family members whose lives you ruined. And you are old enough for the penalty, be it life in prison or death.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Juvenile offenders should never be in an adult court

it is about mass incarceration and brain development.

BUT... parents and their environment should face a top down review by CPS. Yes, some teens might have to leave their parents after some time in Juvenile hall.

[Logical]

35. +1000 nt

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Slightly OT but not totally, some people here piss and moan endlessly about technology

And how evil silicon valley libertarians are coming to steal our precious bodily fluids an' whatnot...

That said, universal adoption of driverless vehicles would make drunk driving issues moot. For good.

[stevenleser]

36. Yep. +infinity. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. And it is not just due to DUI by the way

though here is a fun one, You can be charged with DUI for driving while on your meds. It's true, it's true

[Logical]

31. Wow, this always cracks me up when some clueless person thinks they should be tried as an adult.....

What is the fucking point of having an age for a adult if you don't actually respect it?

SO if they are tried as an adult and are found not guilty do they get all the rights of an adult at that point?

God damn GOP thinking.

[RedCappedBandit]

43. Adults should be tried as adults; juveniles as juveniles. Nt

[Matrosov]

44. Are they adults or are they juveniles?

I have a problem with denying juveniles certain rights because they aren't adults, and at the same time trying them in court as adults rather than as juveniles.

You can't have it both ways.

Therefore, I'm always against trying juveniles as adults. If you want them to face the same punishments as adults, you have to give them the same rights as adults.

[justiceischeap]

45. I didn't participate in the poll but...

The issue here isn't, IMO, about trying juveniles as adults. It's about the overuse of the ability to try juveniles as adults. There are some cases where I think the crime committed by the juvenile is so heinous that a juvenile should be tried as an adult (for example mass school shootings, Ethan Couch--and I'll explain why about him later, very grizzly murders). But the justice system now just throws kids into the adult court system willy nilly (it seems) and it's disproportionately used against black kids--or at least they seem to be the ones that end up in prison for life without consideration for their juvenile status.

Ethan Couch, again, IMO, deserved to be tried as an adult. He knew better than to get behind the wheel of that truck. When I drove drunk at his age, I knew better too but I did it anyway (even as a young adult--alas I don't drink anymore, so that's no longer a worry for me). As he was walking down the road, he saw a random guy who he thought had been in the truck with him and told him to use his name, that he'd get them out of trouble. Even while he was as drunk as he was, he knew what he'd done was wrong but figured mom and dad (and rightfully so, it would seem) would get him out of the mess he'd made. Keep in mind, he killed 4 very innocent people and it would seem after his recent excursion to Mexico, that his getting probation hasn't really taught him about consequences. One can argue that it's because of his still developing brain that he continues to make all these bad decisions... or it could very well be that he's just bad. Some people are born that way and no amount of coddling is going to change that in them. I don't know that Couch is one of those people but he should have at least gone into juvenile detention, let alone adult prison, for his crimes like any other person without means would have done.

[Skittles]

46. no

they're not even allowed to vote but they're adults?

[dembotoz]

48. no i have no desire the be like a republican