Visual for our Trolls: THIS is American Socialism

[Mira]

[stage left]

1. Dratted Socialist Snowplows.

Don't they know all you need is a shovel?

[Electric Monk]

2. Libertarian snow clearing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017323857

[laundry_queen]

3. HAHA, that's a good one. nt

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

4. It's a slippery slope

First they're plowing the roads and next thing you know, you're standing in line waiting for toilet paper.

[Phentex]

6. That seems to be the logic. nt

[FrodosPet]

5. Using trucks and plows built by capitalists

Funded by taxing private enterprises and individuals who are mostly employed by private enterprises.

So, to be technical, it is a mixed economy thing, not pure state control of the means of production socialism.

[lunatica]

7. Companies are quite alive in Socialist countries

they can make a profit and even you can become the millionaire you always dreamed of, but even then education, snowplowing, police, firefighting and other services we already have here, and medical care are all free, in the sense that they're paid for by our taxes.

[former9thward]

8. No, socialism is the state owning the means of production.

You don't get to have your own private definitions. What you are describing is a social democratic country on the model of most of the Scandinavian countries. They are not socialist economies.

[lunatica]

9. What you're describing is Communism

It isn't the same thing. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist Democrat. Yes, he's against the Oligarchs, but that is far from being anti-Capitalism.

[former9thward]

10. No classical communism as described by Marx

is where the state "withers away" after socialism has created the conditions for it.

From the dictionary:

Simple Definition of socialism: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

Full Definition of socialism
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

[lunatica]

11. Even Bernie isn't following your definition

Democratic Socialism is obviously not a pure ideology. It's the result of failed purity governance.
And capitalism is incorporated into it. That's Bernie.

[former9thward]

12. I know that's Bernie.

And he has expressly said the state should not own the means of production when he has been asked about it. He is a social democrat more than a democratic socialist.

[Atman]

16. What are "major industries."

I have not seen Bernie espousing your "definition" of Socialism. Right-wing paranoids like to think of Socialism as a complete government takeover of industry, as you attempt to portray. But you are thinking of COMMUNISM. I don't hear Sanders, or any Socialists I know, speaking of government taking over all industry. Far from it. What is being discussed is a fair and equitable tax structure which allows the wealthy and successful -- who will still make their fortunes off of government contracts and "socialism," just as they do now -- to pay into a system which actually benefits them, but affording lower income citizens to participate in the economy, rather than simply receive checks and benefits.

Private companies will still make the tractors, they'll still build the roads and bridges. Seriously, do you think "the government" has a road building department? They may make plans, they may decide where the roads will go, or which bridges are failing and in need of repair, but it is private companies with taxpaying workers who do the actual work. Not "the government." The government facilitates the work, because a bridge won't ever be a profit-center for a corporation unless they can make it private and charge tolls on it. Lots of states are trying that. Florida has privatized highways which charge $5 to drive between two toll booths with no exits between them. Pure profit, not anything to do with the good of the citizenry as a whole.

So what "major industries" are concerned about? The poor oil companies might stop making tens of BILLIONS of dollars in profits while manipulating supply and demand and squashing competition? Insurance companies which skim money off the top while telling you what procedures are worthy? Health care and pharmaceutical giants which charge $500 for a pill just because they'll pay each other back with government money? Get rid of them all!

What, exactly, are these "major industries" which Bernie plans on turning into a Communist haven?

[former9thward]

18. My definition???

I gave the text book straight from the dictionary definition. Are they right wingers too?

[CommonSenseDemocrat]

13. The counterargument will be that's why it took so long to plow the roads

That's why I think using snow plows as an example is a poor political argument for socialism.

[B Calm]

17. Or, where in hell do they get off blocking all lanes of traffic.

[LanternWaste]

14. And even this simple, obvious and accurate observation causes the half-wits to react with discomfort

And even this simple, obvious and accurate observation causes the half-wits to react with discomfort and rationalizations.

[Mira]

15. Kind of like:

Climate Change---the Hoax that shows up every day

[LanternWaste]

19. I like that

I like that.