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Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:35 AM

Black men only: UConn's proposed 'learning community' sparks controversy

The University of Connecticut is building a special residence for those who identify as African-American males, as a way to boost retention and graduation rates. Critics of the plan are calling the arrangement "racially segregated housing."

As part of its Learning Community Program, the university has established "houses" designed to match students with like-minded peers, in order to foster development and to "make UConn feel like home," according to the school's website. In addition to houses aimed at environmentally-conscious students or nursing majors, for example, a new house under construction will cater to African-American men only.

The SCHOLA2RS House ‒ which stands for Scholastic House Of Leaders who are African American Researchers and Scholars ‒ "is a scholastic initiative to groom, nurture, and train the next generation of leaders to address grand challenges in society through the promotion of academic success in undergraduate programs at the University of Connecticut and in competitive graduate programs," the university said.

The only one of the "learning communities" based on gender or race, the house is scheduled to open in the fall semester of 2016, WTIC reported. SCHOLA2RS will be located in a 200,000-square-foot dorm that will hold more than 700 other students, according to officials connected with the program.

"African American males graduate at a lower rate than their peers," said Dr. Erik Hines, a professor of educational psychology at UConn who focuses on research pertaining to African-American male academic achievement, especially in the fields of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM). "So the University of Connecticut was forward-thinking in bringing a solution to this issue."

In 2012, the graduation rate for all UConn students was 82.5 percent, while the graduation rate for black males was 54 percent. That was the main impetus to build the new house, according to Hines.

"It is a space for African American men to one, come together and validate their experiences that they may have on campus," Hines added. "Number two, it's also a space where they can have conversation and also talk with individuals who come from the same background who share the same experience."

The unusual move has prompted an outpouring of criticism. On the anonymous subreddit board for "all things UConn," commenters have expressed concern with "identity politics" on college campuses and students that "want to hide in a shell and want people to hand them things." Some are alarmed at the fact that "UConn is considering racially segregated housing," and that the house is leaving out African-American women.

Students and others have pointed out that the housing is optional, and therefore not quite comparable to racially segregated housing. Others have supported the house in light of its goals, which include boosting academic performance of male African-American students.


https://www.rt.com/usa/330645-uconn-black-scholars-housing/

I'm all for giving black men a better chance at success in college, but I don't feel that comfortable with this so-called "learning community". The house isn't entirely separated from other students of race so I wouldn't call it complete segregation, but I am concerned that improving the academic performance of black men involved giving them their own little dorm away from other races. I don't think that's the way to go imo.

What do you all think?

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Reply Black men only: UConn's proposed 'learning community' sparks controversy (Original post)
romanic Jan 2016 OP
Behind the Aegis Jan 2016 #1
JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #5
Behind the Aegis Feb 2016 #131
delrem Jan 2016 #2
JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #3
Recursion Jan 2016 #4
JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #6
Recursion Jan 2016 #9
cali Jan 2016 #10
Recursion Jan 2016 #11
cali Jan 2016 #13
Recursion Jan 2016 #14
bettyellen Jan 2016 #53
Travis_0004 Jan 2016 #26
Recursion Jan 2016 #27
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #30
mythology Jan 2016 #45
clarice Jan 2016 #50
JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #46
Bluenorthwest Jan 2016 #7
Recursion Jan 2016 #8
Bluenorthwest Jan 2016 #12
Recursion Jan 2016 #15
wordpix Jan 2016 #63
bemildred Jan 2016 #16
frizzled Jan 2016 #17
branford Jan 2016 #18
Bluenorthwest Jan 2016 #19
branford Jan 2016 #20
wordpix Jan 2016 #65
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #31
frizzled Jan 2016 #32
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #33
frizzled Jan 2016 #35
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #36
frizzled Jan 2016 #38
Humanist_Activist Jan 2016 #42
frizzled Jan 2016 #56
Humanist_Activist Jan 2016 #76
X_Digger Jan 2016 #127
gollygee Jan 2016 #49
JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #132
CTyankee Jan 2016 #21
JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #44
wordpix Jan 2016 #57
CTyankee Jan 2016 #59
wordpix Jan 2016 #60
CTyankee Jan 2016 #62
wordpix Jan 2016 #67
CTyankee Jan 2016 #75
branford Jan 2016 #70
KamaAina Feb 2016 #140
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KamaAina Feb 2016 #145
CTyankee Feb 2016 #146
KamaAina Feb 2016 #147
CTyankee Feb 2016 #148
Bradical79 Feb 2016 #149
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frizzled Jan 2016 #24
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frizzled Jan 2016 #28
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #29
frizzled Jan 2016 #34
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frizzled Jan 2016 #39
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X_Digger Jan 2016 #128
Humanist_Activist Jan 2016 #43
frizzled Jan 2016 #55
Humanist_Activist Jan 2016 #77
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XemaSab Jan 2016 #117
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clarice Jan 2016 #51
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branford Feb 2016 #166
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wordpix Jan 2016 #61
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TipTok Jan 2016 #48
CTyankee Jan 2016 #64
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CTyankee Jan 2016 #69
Iris Jan 2016 #119
wordpix Jan 2016 #54
Iris Jan 2016 #121
Behind the Aegis Feb 2016 #130
JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #133
Iris Feb 2016 #139
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jwirr Jan 2016 #58
JI7 Jan 2016 #68
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LittleBlue Jan 2016 #73
kwassa Jan 2016 #79
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kwassa Jan 2016 #115
JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #141
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #152
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Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #167
branford Feb 2016 #172
kwassa Feb 2016 #186
Dr. Strange Feb 2016 #136
JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #142
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kwassa Jan 2016 #98
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kwassa Feb 2016 #184
JI7 Jan 2016 #102
Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #103
JI7 Jan 2016 #104
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JI7 Jan 2016 #120
Iris Jan 2016 #124
LanternWaste Feb 2016 #135
Person 2713 Jan 2016 #116
Iris Jan 2016 #122
kwassa Jan 2016 #126
Iris Feb 2016 #137
JustAnotherGen Feb 2016 #143
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #158
Iris Feb 2016 #177
RobinA Jan 2016 #125
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #157
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #151
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #156
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #165
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #168
branford Feb 2016 #170
Act_of_Reparation Feb 2016 #180
branford Feb 2016 #182
TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #153
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #159
TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #161
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #163
TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #164
JI7 Feb 2016 #175
kwassa Feb 2016 #187
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anigbrowl Feb 2016 #189
mwrguy Feb 2016 #154
gollygee Feb 2016 #176
Lancero Feb 2016 #178
LineLineLineReply .
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #179
virgogal Feb 2016 #169
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branford Feb 2016 #173
KamaAina Feb 2016 #174
romanic Feb 2016 #181
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kwassa Feb 2016 #185
anigbrowl Feb 2016 #190
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anigbrowl Feb 2016 #192
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #193
anigbrowl Feb 2016 #194
Nye Bevan Feb 2016 #196
branford Feb 2016 #195

Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:03 AM

1. This is optional, not mandatory.

Personally, if students have asked for this, I support it. Often, minority groups do this informally, when it is done in a structured way, it allows for extra programming geared toward a specific group which is additional education, IMO. When I was a residence hall coordinator, I had a building which had an "Umoja house", but mine was mixed (male and female). We hired a very specific RA for the floor and certain requirements were put in place. We had a very good return rate. Higher than most floors and one of the few floors which had a waiting list, and never an open room.

Universities have gender specific halls, the freshman-only halls, they have athletic halls, so why not groups which are underrepresented or have requested such a space? Keep in mind such spaces aren't about "keep others out" but rather about building community from within.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #1)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:21 AM

5. I was an RA too

Majority white university. We got our dorm assignment for the Semester before room selection. I'm quite proud of the fact that the white girls from Appalachia and Province Quebec were always eager to get in my wing. Both groups tended to come from large poor families and knew their RA was there to give them an ear as they navigated this place filled with kids from big cities and prep parochial educations. Oh - and my Da Bronx and Brooklyn (mostly black children of immigrants from Haiti and Jamaica) too.

The only thing I could think might put fear in people's hearts is the idea that a "large group of black young men" could pose some kind of danger? I dunno . . .

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:32 AM

131. I rose through the ranks and go a M. Ed. in university housing.

I enjoyed having a diverse population as a RA too. However, I can see the benefits in a well-crafted program such as the one described above. I have seen where it has failed at some institutions for lack of interest and others where it excelled. I have seen houses/floors created for Native Americans, Latinos, GLBT, and several other identity based groups. Some will do better than others, but that is the way with many things.

I would say I am surprised at some of the ignorant comments in this thread, but then I would be lying. I find it interesting, though, how many jump to it's "required segregation"; it isn't 'required'. Though not using the term, you can hear the whistles of "reverse racism" in some of the comments almost loud enough to make one's ears bleed. Then there are the cries of "self-segregation" and how they should be wanting to be around others, which completely ignores that the students, through daily classes and activities, are always around "others."

At the last one I supervised, participants could only stay for two years, unless they became staff. They had to participate in a predetermined amount of the programs or risked being moved. I can understand people's reactions to some extent, but the idea here is to provide further education, not segregation/separation. We didn't have any fears of the "large group of black men" at ours, likely because it was a co-ed environment, but I imagine it is something single-sex male versions might face.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:26 AM

2. It seems perfectly natural.

This isn't something just invented.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:11 AM

3. Good idea

They may be coming from the same weak educational background and need the peer support and access to the same tutors and assistance to succeed.

This makes me go along to get along with free college for everyone.

IF we acknowledge that the majority of black students from inner cities attending in Fall 2017 were deliberately and maliciously cheated out of an equal elementary, middle, and high school education and they will need extra help when they get there -

I'm all for it. Sounds like UConn is preparing for Free College For Everyone to make sure those kids redlined into ghettos are as successful as those who had posh suburban educations.

FYI - my father was a Tuskeegee grad and my uncles and grandfather were Morehouse grads.

Being in a segregated dorm didn't hurt them. Black people tend to reach back and pull each other up "behind the back of America" and these connections we make at University last throughout our lives.

As much as America thinks it is ready for us to get rid of these connections and networking tools - America is wrong. I'll be 43 in two weeks and even if they legislates our organizations away - we will defy this country. I will make a point of forming the underground railroad to The Links membership.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:15 AM

4. Great program

I wish them the best

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:21 AM

6. Me too! n/t

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:56 AM

9. It's interesting how nobody complains about the nursing majors, or crew participants, or whatever

But let black men try to make their own community, and shit hits the fan...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:00 AM

10. I think that's a poor comparison. Those are students drawn together by common

 

interests.

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Response to cali (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:03 AM

11. Black men don't have common interests?

Really?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:13 AM

13. Oh c'mon. This is race based. Period. I have no problem with it

 

but I really loath dishonest shit like you're pushing.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:18 AM

14. Yeah, and?

It's race-based in its definition; I didn't realize anybody was denying that.

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Response to cali (Reply #13)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:11 PM

53. Why is that a problem for you- it literally is a common interest, or did that fly over your head?

 

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Response to Recursion (Reply #11)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 12:46 PM

26. Can we have a whites only dorm as well?

 

Or is that racist?

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:04 PM

27. Are any students asking for one?

I'd take that as it comes

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:14 PM

30. If white students see that university enforced blacks-only dorms are permitted,

I would certainly expect some white students to start demanding whites-only dorms. And most DUers in this thread will not really be in a position to object.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:57 PM

45. Actually you can be in favor of one but not the other

 

There is no large scale discrimination against whites in this country. As a straight white male, I get to go through life with a certain amount of inherent privilege that isn't given to minorities or women or members of the lgbtq community.

It would be at least questionable for me as a white guy to try to create a community that was designed, or could reasonably be perceived as trying to maintain that privilege. In theory this dorm is designed to help mitigate the structural disadvantages minorities have and do so in a safer setting. If I need help on something, it's easier to ask for that help if I know the people around me have gone through the same things.

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Response to mythology (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:59 PM

50. Goose Gander? nt

 

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:01 PM

46. The right question is

Do whites educated from preschool to last day of high school in posh suburbs drop out of college at the rate that young black men do?

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:51 AM

7. I think it is a good idea but I sure do like this article about it from U Conn's own paper

 

better than the rt work up in the OP. The Daily Campus piece quotes actual student views and seems more complete.

The focus is on learning not living for ScHOLA2Rs House
http://dailycampus.com/stories/2016/1/26/the-focus-is-on-learning-not-living-for-schola2rs-house

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:54 AM

8. Great point (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:09 AM

12. A Google search brings up a few rt, Fox News and other similar sources with only the Daily Campus

 

presenting detailed, student based and largely African American points of view. RT puts 'Black Men Only' as the title and also uses inaccurate language ' is building a special residence for those who identify as African-American males' in that there is no dedicated building being created but just an experimental 'pod' within the dorm. Fox News does the same sort of thing but they at least say it is a section of a dorm and not a special residence being built.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:20 AM

15. Yeah, that's in the original, too: it's a scholarship group

that retains some residential connections.

Like I said, sounds like a really cool idea.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #7)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:40 PM

63. ScHOLA2RS is the name - what's the meaning? Hard to read it, too

Sc-hola-two-r-s what does it mean?

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:36 AM

16. Homogenous clubs and frats doesn't seem to have hurt white students too much. nt

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:42 AM

17. People should be allowed to voluntarily self segregate.

 

Same goes for ALL groups. It's a basic right to have freedom of association.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:45 AM

18. That's not really the issue here.

 

Last edited Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

In this instance, the state is limiting residence to a campus dorm on the basis of race.

Although I understand and support the intent and aims of the special residence, it might face legal difficulties if challenged, particularly if a group of white male students demand similar accommodations.

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Response to branford (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:25 AM

19. The dorm is 200,000 sq feet, housing hundreds of students of all sorts, this is a section of a floor

 

for 43 young men. A corner of a floor of a dorm open to all. The article cited in the OP suggests an entire facility is being specially constructed for one type of student but that is not the case at all.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:31 AM

20. The same legal rules would apply

 

regardless of whether its a whole building, floor or small section. A state university is restricting certain housing based on race.



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Response to branford (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:42 PM

65. I think women of color or white should stand up, too

if they want to be in this housing. I support them if they do.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #17)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:20 PM

31. "People should be allowed to voluntarily self segregate"

Does this also apply to housing associations, in your opinion? If a housing association voluntarily voted to divide into a blacks-only section and a whites-only section, you would be OK with that?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:26 PM

32. I see no reason to tell people who they should want to live with.

 

If black or white or Asian people want to live with others who look like them, they have the right to do that. I'm against social engineering projects like forced busing, which seems to usually do more harm than good and often actually lead to "white flight".

In reality segregation happens whether you want to make it legal or not. US cities tend to be racially segregated.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:29 PM

33. But are you OK with the authorities not allowing people of particular races

to live in certain places?

Because that is what would be analogous to what the university is doing.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:33 PM

35. If by the authorities you mean democratically accountable government

 

The difference is that the government doesn't own the housing, so they don't have a direct right to say who can live there.

Provided that people of other races are not being put at a disadvantage and have somewhere else to live, there's nothing fundamentally objectionable about the concept of a neighborhood for one race.

It's not something I would personally support, but if sufficiently many black property owners want to have blacks-only neighborhoods, I would not deny them that right.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:39 PM

36. So if a town council democratically votes to divide its town-owned public housing

into a white section and a black section, separate but equal, if you will, you would be OK with that.

All I will say is that I understand why you also support the university's policy.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:43 PM

38. I'd respect their decision. I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

 

It seems you have trouble understanding others have different preferences to you.

Personally I don't care what race someone is, but I also do not want to force everyone in the world to agree with me. If segregation makes black people happier, I say let them at it.

Your personal moral objection to segregation does not outweigh the democratic right to freedom of association.

From a strictly evidence based point of view, forced integration of the races by social engineering measures such as forced busing has had lousy outcomes.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:44 PM

42. Here's a question, should realtors be able to discriminate based on race? n/t

 

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:21 PM

56. Here's a question, do you think they don't already?

 

Like I said - the US is already one of the most segregated countries in the world.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:42 PM

76. Yes, of course, that doesn't make it right, it sounds to me like you want to overturn...

 

the Fair Housing Act.

If realtors are caught discriminating based on race, they can be sued and the government can punish them. Not saying its always enforced, nor provable to be enforced, and because of many reasons, there is heavy segregation nationwide, but that doesn't make it good or right.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:33 PM

127. Wait, hold the phone. You support segregation by race in housing?!? Did you land on the wrong site?

What.the.fuck?

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Response to frizzled (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:45 PM

49. You think this just happened?

You think African Americans chose to live in specific neighborhoods? You have a great deal of reading you need to do because you are frankly completely ignorant about the history of housing discrimination in the US.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:01 AM

132. I'm trying to figure out

How providing peer support to young men who were redlined into that map and thus were cheated out of decent public school education - and fostering an environment of "we work together to succeed" translates to . . . I'm not sure?

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:07 AM

21. If black males themselves are requesting it and it is voluntary I think it's great.

I can well understand their need for mutual support, depending on how white their school is. I know that as a woman I would much prefer an all female dorm to a co-ed one, not to keep females pure (the rationale back when I was in college) but because women wanted "safe space."

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:56 PM

44. +1

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #21)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:27 PM

57. if learning is the issue, why not open to all who need learning-enhanced housing?

Women, Hispanics, whites---lots of students would qualify. I don't get it why it's males only, and African American at that.

Wondering if this has something to do with UConn's men's athletic program.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #57)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:55 PM

59. because each would benefit from having their own ethnic grouping. That's fine.

I dunno if it has anything to do with the athletic program, tho. My husband is the sports guru and I'll ask him...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:30 PM

60. IMO, there's no benefit to "ethnic grouping" re: making a learning env't available

or in real life. Obviously, we will choose our own friends based on whatever. But the issue is the learning housing environment. IMO, it should be open to all.

All students need structure, a quiet space to study, and most students need rules like no headphone use (for loud music) while studying ---all for concentration on academic tasks. I assume this dorm will provide those things, but what do race and gender have to do with providing and using this type of housing? Students who need a quiet, learning-focused environment should be allowed to apply for this housing, IMO, no matter if they are male, female, black, white, purple or spotted.

UConn can separate genders, if that's what people want, by floor.

I again wonder if this has something to do with the male athletes at UConn. Athletics are huge and there are many African Americans on the basketball and football teams.

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Response to wordpix (Reply #60)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:37 PM

62. Not everbody will want that kind of housing and they still could go into the mixed dorms.

Some kids have never been away from home before and may need a year in a more supportive dorm. As they get used to the campus and class life environments where lots of different people participate, they can move into the mixed dorms more easily. I don't see what is wrong with that.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #62)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:50 PM

67. sometimes you have to be uncomfortable

learning to adjust and that goes for all colors and creeds. I don't know about freshmen's support but I do know about learning environments. Females need them just as much as males; whites and Hispanics as much as African Americans. Open to all who are interested!

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Response to wordpix (Reply #67)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:27 PM

75. my husband said that at UCONN the team members are together, regardless of race.

I didn't know that but evidently he did. I guess that means they room together. It's part of the team cohesiveness thing...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #59)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:08 PM

70. Isn't such reasoning the very antithesis of the purported benefits of diversity,

 

and the entire basis of liberal arguments supporting such programs as affirmative actions?

Although I very much doubt it was your intent, but praising the "benefits of singular ethnic groupings" in higher education reeks of "separate but equal."

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #59)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:33 PM

140. UConn has lowest grad rate among Top 25 teams

 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14052174/uconn-huskies-graduation-rate-20-percent-improving

The NCAA is reporting that UConn's men's basketball team has a graduation rate of just 20 percent, by far the lowest among the teams in the preseason Top 25....

It's actually an improvement for UConn, which reported a 17 percent graduation rate last year and an 8 percent graduation rate just two seasons ago.

The national average for all sports is a graduation rate of 86 percent. In men's basketball, it's 77 percent.

The UConn women's basketball team had a 100 percent graduation rate, according to the NCAA.


The latter figure may help shed some light on why ScHOLA2RS is for black men only.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #140)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:41 PM

144. while the women's team is still fabulous and their graduation rate is excellent...

my husband is a HUGE women Husky team fan and has been since forever. Love me that Geno...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #144)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:44 PM

145. Oh hell yeah!

 

It had long been rumored that Geno would move across Gampel to coach the men's team after Calhoun hung it up. But then, Kevin Ollie came roaring out of the gate with a national title!

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #145)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:56 PM

146. The women's team did a LOT for women's sports in this country. I loved their ascent and

was cheering them on, altho I don't like sports generally...I remember the greats like Sue Bird...all the Wonder Years...

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #146)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:57 PM

147. And for men's sports in Storrs

 

I have long believed that the success of the women's team motivated the men to snap out of their years-long choke-in-the-second-round streak and finally win it all.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #147)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:00 PM

148. oh, god, too much sports stuff for me...you and my hubby could go on and on about

Uconn sports, or any sports for that matter with him...but yes, it was a nice ride...

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Response to wordpix (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:14 PM

149. If African American males specifically have learning issues unique to them

 

I don't see the problem (though I'm not sure why it's men only). It's not like it's true segregation as they're still surrounded by white kids, go to the same classes, etc. It sounds more like an optional live in support group. It's not the only learning group there either.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:22 AM

22. Bringing back racial segegation in 2016? Disgusting.

And for those supporting it, how would you feel about a university building a house that was open only to white students?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 12:21 PM

24. It's called freedom of association.

 

People have a right to associate with anyone else they choose. I don't have to support their personal preferences to believe they have a right to express that preference.

Just as I don't have to support Westboro Baptist to support their right to free speech. Get it?

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Response to frizzled (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 12:42 PM

25. No, the university is building housing only open to those of a particular race.

"Freedom of association" would be where students get to pick themselves where they want to live, and who they want to live with, without the need for any racial enforcement by the university authorities ("sorry Joe, you look too white to me to be allowed to live there!"

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #25)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:04 PM

28. The university wouldn't do this if there wasn't the demand.

 

How are students supposed to get the blacks-only dorm they want otherwise? Built it themselves?

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Response to frizzled (Reply #28)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:10 PM

29. If the students are demanding university-enforced racially segregated housing,

the university should tell them no, we don't do mandatory racial segregation anymore.

And you can guarantee that if a segregated blacks-only dorm is allowed in this case, white students somewhere will demand whites-only dorms. And based on your arguments (their "freedom of association", their "demand" for it) you wouldn't really be in a position to object.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:30 PM

34. The university has no right to deny them freedom to associate.

 

And I wouldn't oppose whites-only dorms for precisely the same reason. I don't see anything fundamentally objectionable about it; it's a personal choice.

My own preference, were I a student, would be to live in an integrated dorm, as I don't give a damn what color people are, but I don't believe in telling others who they ought to want to associate with.

I don't see why this is hard to understand. It's as though people have trouble understanding others may have different preferences to them.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:41 PM

37. Even if a majority of the students wanted "separate but equal" racially segregated housing,

to be enforced by the university, I would tell them to go pound sand.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:46 PM

39. How very democratic and not at all Soviet of you

 

Not so much Homo Sovieticus but Homo Integrationismus though...

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Response to frizzled (Reply #39)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 01:52 PM

40. If a majority of the citizens of Mississippi had wanted to keep the Jim Crow laws,

should their democratic wishes have been respected?

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Response to frizzled (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:37 PM

128. Free clue: Five guys of the same race renting a 5 bedroom apartment is free association.

A college making a 5 unit dorm that only accepts guys of the same race is racial segregation.

Association != forced racial segregation.

If you can't see the difference, you need to think some more.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #24)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:48 PM

43. Should that right be extended to places of employment? n/t

 

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #43)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:19 PM

55. Yes. It is already, in practise.

 

Much better if businesses that have racist hiring policies do so in writing and publicize it.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #55)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:44 PM

77. So you are basically advocating for a return to the world of the 1950s, Jim Crow and all?

 

Why are you on this board? This is a place for liberals, progressives and various other leftists, not dixiecrats, segregationists and conservatives.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #77)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:08 PM

82. I'm probably a lot further left than you

 

Jim Crow was a caste system set up to harm black people and thoroughly abhorrent.

I don't rule out voluntary segregation under all possible circumstances. If there's a desire for it and it does not harm or disadvantage one group over another.

Our democratic politics are based on an assumption we all have the same interests, but we now know this is false. Some groups of people simply don't get along. Segregation is probably the best solution. It's conservative to oppose segregation under all circumstances.

The important thing is that neither the government nor civil society can 'unmake racism'. There is no tolerance pill, which can cure an individualís negative and hostile attitudes to specific groups. Anders Breivik and Dylann Roof are here to stay. So is hostility to specific minorities, and aggressive expression of that hostility. So are the fanboys: some people will continue to admire Breivik and Roof, and to see their actions as justified.

We can not make people be nice to each other. Despite all its surveillance powers, the United States government can't stop them killing each other either. Nor can European governments, even though the killing may be less frequent, and take a different form.

People hate other people. People want to kill other people. They say so openly. Social media made it possible for each individual to broadcast their attitudes to the world, and the result was a flood of hate and death threats.

What the state can do, is keep them apart. Paradoxically, the fact that individuals hate groups more than other single individuals, makes it easier to separate them. If a white person hates blacks, the state can keep that person away from blacks. If a Christian hates gays, the state can keep that person away from gays. If a feminist hates men, the state can keep her away from men. And it works both ways: if a gay man hates homophobes, the state can keep that person away from homophobes.

I see in America an inability to confront the issue of hatred and hostility. I see platitude after platitude, but a general unwillingness to analyse society and politics. I see millions of reactions, but apparently none of them innovative. Everyone says roughly what you would expect them to say, and they will say it again, after the next racially motivated mass shooting.

Segregation is probably the answer to racism.

This is a Peace Wall in Belfast, Northern Ireland. It segregates Catholics from Protestants. Together with guaranteed Catholic and Protestant governments, it means both groups have their interests represented and they are kept from harming one another.

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Response to frizzled (Reply #82)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:53 PM

117. Or people can just grow the fuck up and learn to get along

n/t

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Response to frizzled (Reply #82)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 12:38 AM

129. My honest assessment, you seem to have a complete lack of understanding of society...

 

human nature, economics and history. I would recommend that you actually study history and the issues surrounding race relations in the United States. I have to admit, the idea of legalizing segregation, or even erecting walls to keeps the races separate is perhaps one of the stupidest things I've seen on this board.

Why don't you keep your misanthropic scheming to yourself, it seems rather obvious you are trying to be edgy.

I do wonder, would your "voluntary" segregation would institute a "one drop" rule or not?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #22)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:02 PM

51. +1000 nt

 

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:24 PM

150. I don't see those as the same thing

 

One of the big arguments for affirmative action is the unique struggles African Americans have in the educational system. Poorer neighborhoods, men being arrested at extremely high rates, and so on. It sounds more like an extension of that idea. Like a live in support group, for those who want it, to more effectively overcome institutional disadvantages. It's not like they wouldn't be integrated with everyone else in every single other way. It's not the only group that would have their own housing like that either.

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Response to Bradical79 (Reply #150)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:47 PM

166. The legal burdens for the government to impose race-based restrictions,

 

such as the racially-limited housing at a state university, are incredibly difficult to meet, and affirmative action policies have been forced to grow narrower and narrower on the probable course to oblivion given current legal jurisprudence.

Without proof that UConn has a history of systemic discrimination in housing or similar conduct, generalized notions of segregated housing being good for black men would likely not survive judicial scrutiny should parties decide to challenge the new housing option. I would expect UConn to even go as far as conceding white male-only housing if demanded rather than defend their policy in court.


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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:36 AM

23. Russia Today?

 

This is getting ridiculous.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 02:00 PM

41. I hope after the elections the race baiting will stop.

 

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Response to Boudica the Lyoness (Reply #41)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:18 PM

71. Me too but it wont

 

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:07 PM

47. Segregation now, tomorrow and forever

 

Apparently we're going to make Wallace's dream come true under the guise of progressive thought.

Only at a university could something this stupid be considered enlightened.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:03 PM

52. Yup. nt

 

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:36 PM

61. I'm with you

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:01 PM

118. These types of programs have been shown to improve graduation rates.

It's not just something UConn made up out of the clear blue.

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Response to Iris (Reply #118)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:29 PM

162. Link to where racially segregating student housing improves graduation rates?

Thanks in advance!

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 03:36 PM

48. More Safe Space bullshit where you don't have to face the chance...

 

... that you might interact with someone different than you.

Setting these folks up for failure...

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Response to TipTok (Reply #48)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:41 PM

64. that's just silly. they will have their basic freshman year class load and interact with lots

of people who are different from them. Plus sports teams, plus campus activities and clubs according to interest.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #64)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:47 PM

66. There is a difference between the folks you have class with...

 

... and the people you live with.

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Response to TipTok (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 06:06 PM

69. Some colleges have difficult course loads for new freshmen and then there are all the

activities. They are studying in the library until all hours. Basically, dorm life is catching your zzzs at midnight or 2 a.m. and the rest of the time in class, library, maybe a play rehearsal or singing in group, etc. Living in a busy and youthful college town with a vibrant study body I see those students really on the go around the campus when I go downtown. They chose Yale because of the diverse student body and the opportunities for extra-curricula activities but there are a lot of places where these are common. I don't think there is much time for hiding in your dorm room (but at Yale they have a whole different set up called residential colleges).

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Response to TipTok (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:01 PM

119. Not in the learning community model.

Which is being used at many campuses and have shown to improve student success rates.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:17 PM

54. as one with a career teaching students in learning centers

I'm scratching my head b/c students with learning problems come in all colors, shapes and both genders. If this is truly a learning-centered approach to housing, why not open it to all (women, white, purple with spots, etc.) who need a quiet, structured learning environment?

It's no secret that students with low standardized test scores and poor academic skills who are at risk are those who come from economically disadvantaged homes/communities. Research has shown this time and again across the nation. White students, Hispanics and women come from poverty, too.

I'm concerned. UConn and the state of CT could only convince me this is a good idea if they opened it up to all who need and want it, and design the building and any programming inside to enhance learning. That means having tutors available, as well as having quiet spaces to study.

But as always, the main issue is why the state, which is hundreds of million$ in the hole, is not helping families and communities at risk but instead is building a huge structure to house African American males...is this a ploy to give black male athletes a boost but not call it that?

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Response to wordpix (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:06 PM

121. UConn has more than one learning community. You can see the list here -

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Response to Iris (Reply #121)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 01:18 AM

130. Why did you do that?

Facts have no place in this discussion!

Seriously, though, thank you for adding relevant information, including your post about retention and graduation rates being bettered.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #130)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:09 AM

133. I'm going to leave this here

http://americaswire.org/drupal7/?q=content/black-males-missing-college-campuses

The national college graduation rate for black men is 33.1 percent compared with 44.8 percent for black women, according to the U.S. Department of Education. The total graduation rate is 57.3 percent. Black men represent 7.9 percent of 18-to-24-year-olds in America but only 2.8 percent of undergraduates at public flagship universities.

While this troubling trend is most acute among blacks, young men of color in general are underrepresented in colleges and universities. The national college graduation rate of Hispanic men is 41.1 percent and of Native Americans and Alaska natives 33.8 percent. In comparison, the graduation rate for white males is 54.5 percent. Asian/Pacific Islanders have the highest rate, 60.6 percent.

This education gap virtually ensures that men of color, particularly blacks, will continue to have less earning power than their white counterparts and be underrepresented across a broad spectrum of high-paying professions.

The good news is that the problem is being addressed. African-American educators who noticed the declines sounded warning bells several years ago and took the lead in trying to increase the rates of black men attending and completing college. State college systems became involved, too. The bad news is that the problem is persistent and complicated by factors that affect young black men long before they enter college.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #133)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:23 PM

139. Exactly.

And if giving them space to help each other works, I'm all for it.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #130)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:22 PM

138. Just sorry I got here so late!

So weird. I learned how to back up my arguments with facts by coming to DU back around the turn of the century. It's too bad those standards seem to have disappeared.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 04:30 PM

58. I don't see why this is not okay if it is what the students

want. In the 70s my almost all white small college allowed those of us who wanted to have our own Indian House - this was not a dormitory but it was a house set aside especially for Native American students (and supporters) to hold meetings, study, produce a newsletter, plan events, etc.

Because many of us lived in off campus housing I am not sure how dorm assignments were handled. I am not sure how the black students on campus were handled but I do know that they often attended events at the Indian House.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 05:55 PM

68. i don't like it that there needs to be something like this

But i also understand the reality of what black men have to deal with so if this can help i can support it.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 07:27 PM

72. It's weird that the biggest arguments against this in the thread are

1. I'm uncomfortable with this so it shouldn't happen.

And

2. They need to learn to deal with their discomfort.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:08 PM

73. Or 3. It's segregation repackaged in progressive wrapping

 

Segregation has never worked to advance any race, and will never work. Ever. That is a fact.

When those guys get jobs, they will have less experience around non-blacks, which are 87% of the country. They will therefore be less prepared to work and live around people of other colors. And since this particular project is men only, they will be less prepared to interact with women.

Portray racial isolation as a strength, DU.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #73)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:53 PM

79. So, you are opposed to HBCUs, as well?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #81)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:22 PM

84. Was I talking to you?

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Response to kwassa (Reply #84)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:29 PM

85. I didn't realize that was a private conversation.

Sorry.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #85)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:35 PM

88. I was asking LittleBlue's personal opinion.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #84)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:00 PM

93. LOL

 

"Was I talking to you?"

You're on a public forum. Anyone can reply to anything.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #93)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:03 PM

96. LOL

I was asking your opinion, though I could predict the answer.

I am talking to you.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #79)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:55 PM

91. White people attend HBCUs. Most HBCUs are a waste of money IMHO

 

But if you want to go there, go right ahead.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #91)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:00 PM

94. So, you don't like HCBUs. Thank you.

I thought this would be the case.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #94)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:02 PM

95. I don't like or dislike them

 

I think if you want decent facilities without being ripped off, you should pass.

Your gotcha question was pretty shit tbh. Everyone knows whites can and do attend HBCUs and even black frats.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #95)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:04 PM

97. Very few do.

And you know that, too.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #97)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:06 PM

99. Bluefield State is an HBCU that is 90% white

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/10/18/236345546/the-whitest-historically-black-college-in-america

And HBCUs are now one quarter nonblack

An average of one in four students at traditionally black schools in the U.S. is a different race than the one the college was intended to serve

http://time.com/2907332/historically-black-colleges-increasingly-serve-white-students/

Even they realize that diversity is good.

You sound like a white guy who assumes HBCUs are black only. lol

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #99)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:18 PM

105. You sound like a white guy ...

That doesn't understand the most basic issues in the black community. I am white, but am married to a black woman for a couple decades. I know the issues.

Bluefield State is an anomaly. HBCUS were designed to specifically educate African-Americans. Are you opposed to them on principle?

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Response to kwassa (Reply #105)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:28 PM

112. I support the work they did in the past

 

Educating African Americans when they were barred from white institutions, that was a noble thing.

And I 100% support them taking nonblack students now that segregation is over. Diversity is good and HBCUs aren't at all opposed to it. My only criticism stems from the complaints I've read about their tuition fees and, at some HBCUs, poor student services.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #72)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:11 PM

74. I think the "biggest argument" is that forced racial segregation is wrong.

Universities shouldn't be telling students that they are the wrong race to be living in certain buildings.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #74)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:52 PM

78. Identify the force involved

There is none.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #78)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 08:54 PM

80. Ummm.... the fact that a white or Asian student would not be permitted to live there? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #80)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:21 PM

83. The segregation is by choice, not force.

Why would a white or Asian join a black house? And do you know that they would be refused if they applied?

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Response to kwassa (Reply #83)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:29 PM

86. Well, the phrase "Black men only" in the OP kind of suggested that. (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #86)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:38 PM

89. Nye, self-identify as African-American, and you're in.

Read the fine print. Or, just read the articles.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #89)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:48 PM

90. OK, so not really "segregation" as such,

as people can always lie about their race to get in.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #90)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:58 PM

92. You miss the larger point ...

That this is a program designed to help black males, not hurt them. You don't seem to care about that.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #92)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:08 PM

100. The argument that black people actually benefit by being segregated from white people

has somewhat of an ugly history, and is not an argument that I think people should be advancing in 2016.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #100)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:22 PM

106. You still miss the larger point.

It is not about the ugly history, it is about solving a current problem of the graduation rate of African Americans who do get into college.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #106)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:24 PM

107. Segregated housing will improve their graduation rates?

If someone came up with a theory that resegregating the public schools would improve the graduation rates of black students, would you be on board with that?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #107)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:28 PM

111. You miss any point, apparently.

The idea is to create a supportive community to aid in the matriculation of black male students. You miss the support concept.

I am sorry you hate them so much.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #111)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:34 PM

113. I don't think I've ever seen quite so many pro-segregation arguments advanced

on a progressive message board.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #113)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:45 PM

115. I don't think I have ever seen so much ignorance

About black issues advanced on a so- called progressive message board.

Also, ignorance about education issues in general.

Neither your area of expertise.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #115)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:33 PM

141. It's deliberate ignorance




http://americaswire.org/drupal7/?q=content/black-males-missing-college-campuses

The national college graduation rate for black men is 33.1 percent compared with 44.8 percent for black women, according to the U.S. Department of Education. The total graduation rate is 57.3 percent. Black men represent 7.9 percent of 18-to-24-year-olds in America but only 2.8 percent of undergraduates at public flagship universities.

While this troubling trend is most acute among blacks, young men of color in general are underrepresented in colleges and universities. The national college graduation rate of Hispanic men is 41.1 percent and of Native Americans and Alaska natives 33.8 percent. In comparison, the graduation rate for white males is 54.5 percent. Asian/Pacific Islanders have the highest rate, 60.6 percent.

This education gap virtually ensures that men of color, particularly blacks, will continue to have less earning power than their white counterparts and be underrepresented across a broad spectrum of high-paying professions.

The good news is that the problem is being addressed. African-American educators who noticed the declines sounded warning bells several years ago and took the lead in trying to increase the rates of black men attending and completing college. State college systems became involved, too. The bad news is that the problem is persistent and complicated by factors that affect young black men long before they enter college.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #113)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:39 PM

152. Give me a fucking break.

The school isn't segregating anything. They are merely setting aside a portion of living space designated for the use of students believed by the university to have special needs. These students will still go to class, and the library, and the Coop, and Gampell Pavilion, and Renschler Stadium, the Student Union, and (once they're 21, of course) fucking Ted's. Take it from a UConn alumnus: they will meet plenty of white people at these places.

Of course, the school also has special living accommodations for women, athletes, freshman, upperclassmen, and honors students. But give one to black folks and watch people freak the fuck out.



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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #152)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:09 PM

155. "Sorry Mike, you're the wrong race to live in room 23B"

is not a phrase that anyone should be uttering in 2016. There are no "special needs" that racially segregated housing will help address.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #155)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:47 PM

167. O RLY?

That's weird, because I've heard does wonders for imposter syndrome, and feeling like an outsider.

It's also a pretty good bet that your roommate won't like Nickleback.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #167)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:57 PM

172. Nickelback?

 

You should know that housing discrimination based upon national origin is prohibited in a like manner as race.

You better learn to like the diversity only Nickelback can offer, and hope your freshman Canadian roomate has the courtesy to bring some Tim Hortons.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #155)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:45 PM

186. You are totally wrong, and in no position to make this judgment.

Black men from poor environments are in a totally alien environment on a college campus. What can be addressed in this environment in a learning community like this is group support from people from similar backgrounds. Also, services directly targeting their needs, which will be similar to each other, and unlike the needs of whites from more middle-class backgrounds, who haven't experienced racism in their lives.

You keep trying to reduce this argument to a simple principle, and have no grasp of the specifics of the situation.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #89)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 11:46 AM

136. I thought after the whole Rachel Dolezal incident...

we weren't buying into the notion of self-identifying as African-American.

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Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #136)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:35 PM

142. Um some of us

Have no choice - we have dark faces and America is experienced differently as black people.

People ID me as such an treat me as such - its not like I could ever get away with self identifying as blonde light eyed Eastern European. I mean I could but I'd be crazy to try.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #74)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 11:17 AM

134. The enemy is white supremacy

Forcing people of color to be separate to enforce white supremacy is bad. People of color building community and working together to overcome white supremacy is not bad.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 09:35 PM

87. I thought college was about being exposed to ideas and people you *weren't*

 

familiar and comfortable with. You know-- being intellectually and socially challenged. It seems like people are more and more often walling themselves off into these little enclaves of 'everyone thinks just like me'.

Huh.

I wonder if this isn't an extension of the way the online world works. I mean, this very site is a good example. I enjoy it and I like having a place online that is not infested with right-wing trolls, but I wouldn't want my real life to work that way-- especially not in school.

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Response to Marr (Reply #87)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:06 PM

98. College is about getting an education.

Not about being bogged down by racism.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #98)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:09 PM

101. Would resegregating public schools benefit black children,

by ensuring that they are not exposed to racism that might "bog them down"?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #101)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:24 PM

108. Off-Topic diversion

Come back to discuss this program.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #108)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:25 PM

109. Not really. If segregation really and truly is helpful to black people,

you can be sure that some would argue for resegregating public schools.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #109)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:41 PM

114. The college isn't segregated. A residence is.

Big difference.

DC public schools has just set up a school for young black males, as an experiment, as a strategy.

And re-segregation has been occurring for 30 years. Read up on the information.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #114)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:10 PM

123. ^this^

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Response to kwassa (Reply #114)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:26 PM

160. So you believe that *some* segregation is beneficial,

but that too much segregation is bad? That students only living with other students of the same race is somehow helpful, but segregating the classes as well as the dorms would be going too far?

What about dining facilities? Should these be segregated or racially integrated?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #160)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:32 PM

184. There has to be a constructive purpose for it ...

and it has to be limited and voluntary. In this example, the segregation ends every time they walk out the door.

Black residences are nothing new on many campuses.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:11 PM

102. black men are racially singled out for police abuse, discrimination in jobs , etc

but to give them their own dorm is suddenly an outrage.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #102)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:14 PM

103. Some of us oppose all discrimination based upon skin color,

whether it's cops pulling people over, universities telling students where they are allowed to live, or anything else.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #103)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:16 PM

104. it's not the same thing, and the fact black men have to deal with these things

make their life experience different than some others.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #104)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:26 PM

110. And segregating their housing will help them in this regard? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #110)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:05 PM

120. white people have already segregated black people into certain neighborhoods

in this case at least it's a choice for them.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #110)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:11 PM

124. Yes. This is happening in a lot of areas in education based on evidence that it works.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #103)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 11:24 AM

135. While others recognize the relevant differences between safe spaces and segregation.

 

While others recognize the relevant differences between safe spaces and segregation.

It's fun to extrapolate an idea outside of the observed or tabulated range, but lacking objective evidence, it's little more than informal guesswork collated together merely by assigning the label 'discrimination.'

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Response to JI7 (Reply #102)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 10:52 PM

116. For real

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:07 PM

122. I think some are missing an important point here - there is more than 1 learning community at UConn

Here's a link to the program: http://lc.uconn.edu


Many of these groups have designated housing.

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Response to Iris (Reply #122)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:30 PM

126. What? Adding real information to an argument?

Have you no respect for baseless speculation?

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Response to kwassa (Reply #126)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:20 PM

137. I'm a librarian. I can't help myself!

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Response to Iris (Reply #122)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 05:38 PM

143. There you go again!

Using facts!

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Response to Iris (Reply #122)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:18 PM

158. Students choosing to live together because they share an interest in innovation, or human rights,

is very different from designating housing that students of certain races are excluded from.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #158)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 09:24 PM

177. No, it's really not. You just want it to be. n/t

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Sun Jan 31, 2016, 11:27 PM

125. I Generally Oppose

any interest based housing at college. Mixing people up is one of the advantages of college. If I wanted to be around people like me I would have stopped at high school.

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Response to RobinA (Reply #125)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:16 PM

157. Yep. The claim that people somehow benefit when their contact with people of other races is reduced,

is a strange one indeed, very reminiscent of the old pro-segregationist arguments in the South.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:32 PM

151. As a UConn grad:

There is a special dorm for women. There are special dorms for freshman. There are special dorms for upperclassmen. There are special dorms for honors students. There are special dorms for athletes. Now that they want to build a dorm for black people, everyone looses their fucking minds?

The University isn't segregating anything. It is setting aside a building to be used for the housing of students the university feels has special needs, just like the other groups that already have their own living arrangements. These students will still go to class, and still interact with white people.

Everyone can put away their smelling salts now.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:14 PM

156. Sex-segregated dorms, like sex-segregated locker rooms, are one thing,

but racially segregated dorms are quite another. The principle that people benefit when you limit or reduce their contact with people of other races is a dangerous one.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #156)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:43 PM

165. Right...

Giving black students the option of living together in their own dorm might limit their contact with other races. An absolutely valid concern. Why, the last time I drove up 195 from Storrs to Willington and down 44 from Willington to Tolland up 31 from Tolland to Vernon, there wasn't a single white person to be found!

Oh, wait. They were all white.


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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #165)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:47 PM

168. Let the students live wherever they want.

If black students choose to live with other black students, fine. If a white student wants to room with his black buddy, let him. That's how it works in most colleges. The difference in this case is that housing is being set aside that only students of certain races are allowed to live in.

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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #151)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:54 PM

170. Sex segregated housing is constitutionally permitted,

 

and interest groups like sports teams and honor students are not subject to equal protection and similar constitutional concerns. Your examples are simply not even remotely comparable to instances where the government limits housing choice based on race.

Moreover, you are quite wrong as a matter of law. People can choose to live wherever they choose and with whomever they want, and university can even assign housing based on non-discriminatory factors. However, the new residence option is only available to black men, i.e., not available to non-blacks, and thus is most certainly a form of enforced government segregation.

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Response to branford (Reply #170)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 11:48 AM

180. Wow. That's fascinating.

Which is exactly what I would have said if it was.

But it wasn't.

So I won't.

Here's some reading material: http://lc.uconn.edu/schola2rshouse/

Glance it over. If it turns out the evil Dr. Erik Hines (and his dastardly assistant David Ouimette) is hatching some nefarious plan to keep white people out of half of one floor of NextGen Hall (I assume they're going to install gates with biometric locks, and probably some lasers and shit to keep the melanin-challenged students from crossing over into their half of the bathroom) by establishing a learning community anyone -- regardless of race -- is allowed to join, feel free to wield the full force of your legal expertise against him in a court of law.

I'll be over here. Not giving a single fuck.



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Response to Act_of_Reparation (Reply #180)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 12:54 PM

182. The size of the area racially segregated, the means of enforcement,

 

the resumes of its proponents, or whether you "give a single fuck," is entirely irrelevant as a matter of law. These types of issues are some of actually dealt with in my legal practice here in NYC.

The real issue is how the university intends to implement the policy and who, if anyone, wants to challenge it. I would imagine that UConn, along with outside supporters of the housing option, will do everything possible to avoid court challenge, particularly given SCOTUS' ever increasing hostility to affirmative action programs. For instance, if a white, Asian or other non-black men who otherwise fit the housing criteria attempts to qualify, they will not be denied. Similarly, if a group of non-blacks with appropriate issues wants to live together, accommodations will also quietly be provided. UConn will face the greatest difficulty if a large enough group of activists with comparable needs but who aren't black challenge the program directly, UConn will likely be forced to revise the housing program and find ways of recruiting black students without actually using race, similar to how many state schools in California try to promote diversity without running afoul of their state constitutionally-mandated prohibition on racial considerations (and with mixed success).



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Response to romanic (Original post)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 06:42 PM

153. I don't see anything wrong with this.

It's meant to help black men - who are particularly disadvantaged - the way affirmative action is supposed to help minorities overcome injustices.

No, I don't think it should be very widespread, or we would end up with segregated campuses. However, if universities want to identify a group of potential black scholar/leaders and give them extra help, I think that's a good thing. Not everyone gets a monetary scholarship, and not everyone will get this particular type of help, either.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #153)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:22 PM

159. Why exclude Native Americans, Asians, and whites, from the "scholar/leader program"?

Or would you advocate having separate scholar/leader programs, one for each race, and the dorms segregated accordingly?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #159)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:28 PM

161. I'm not "advocating" for anything

I just think it is possible to justify it.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #161)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:32 PM

163. A scholar/leader program for disadvantaged students is a fine concept.

And having dorms so that students who share interests can live together is a good idea.

But segregating these programs by race, and ending up with racially segregated dorms as a result, is a horrible idea.

Would you like to be the one to tell a poor Native American student that he was not allowed into the program because of his or her race?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #163)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:41 PM

164. Well, I do think I made it clear

that I believe separate dorm spaces would be wrong on a large scale. I don't want to go back to the days of segregation.

I would support this for promising students who have some level of disadvantage to overcome - not just your ordinary scholarship kids. Consider bright young men who grew up in the inner city, but have educational deficits. They come from very underprivileged background. They probably already feel like they don't fit in, but a supportive program like this could very well make the difference between success in college and failure.

Yes, it would be nice if we could do this for every student, but realistically we know that's not happening. Is it truly wrong to create a - let's call in affirmative action program for students, for lack of a better term?

I would not want to see the program race based only. It should be for disadvantaged students.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the program.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #163)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:04 PM

175. Native Americans ARE ALREADY being discriminated against, and it's not by black men


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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #163)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:50 PM

187. Not even when a student has been disadvantaged by race?

When the proximate cause of their disadvantage is racism itself, what is wrong with segregating a learning community by race? Riddle me that.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #187)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:51 PM

188. Well...... would it be separate, but equal? (nt)

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #159)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:52 PM

189. Because evidence suggests that they don't need it as badly

 

Being against this requires pretending there's no such thing as structural racism that severely damages the prospects of young black men. As long as this is an optional choice I am fully in favor of it being available.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:06 PM

154. this gives me a sad :(

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #154)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:34 PM

176. ROFL

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Response to mwrguy (Reply #154)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 09:29 PM

178. Wonder if she knows what 'white tears' is a euphemism for?

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Response to Lancero (Reply #178)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 10:24 PM

179. .


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Response to romanic (Original post)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:49 PM

169. We are going backwards.

 

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 07:56 PM

171. I wonder what the Divine Nine think about this.

 

The black fraternities, anyway.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #171)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:00 PM

173. Ironically, most traditionally black fraternities

 

must be open to non-blacks in order to officially exist on state university campuses due to the same constitutional provisions and jurisprudence that may ultimately doom the UConn racially-segregated housing option.

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Response to branford (Reply #173)

Mon Feb 1, 2016, 08:03 PM

174. In that event, one or more of the frats could host ScHOLA2RS in their houses.

 

Just a thought.

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Response to romanic (Original post)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 12:50 PM

181. Whoa.

I didn't expect so many replies to this subject. :O

I must say again I'm all for helping out black college students, especially black men who are at the bottom of the educational totem pole in regards to college and actually graduating college. But I still don't think separating them in their own little residential 'learning community" will actually help them academically or socially. I feel like it's the beginning of a slippery slope that may lead to a racial divide on college campuses that contradicts their quest for diversity.

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Response to romanic (Reply #181)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 01:27 PM

183. The arguments some have made above that segregation is good

because it would lessen black students being "bogged down" by racism, is reminiscent of the arguments used by those who want to segregate public schools.

I would expect the courts to overturn this if the university does not back down.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #183)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:39 PM

185. No. It isn't actually. You make a false comparison.

I have never heard of anyone making the argument that segregating public schools would reduce racism.

Please provide a link if you have such evidence.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #183)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 02:54 PM

190. You're comparing involuntary segregation with a voluntary facility

 

If this were a requirement for admission I'd totally agree with you, but I am fine with providing extra support facilities for people with structural disadvantages.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #190)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:02 PM

191. Would you be OK with a university having one building for whites only,

one building for blacks only, and one racially mixed building which any student could live in? Both the whites-only building and the blacks-only building would be "voluntary facilities", so you would be OK with this?

(Assume for this that although the buildings would be separate, they would also be equal).

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #191)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:04 PM

192. No, because white people are not structurally disadvantaged

 

there are significant benefits to being the majority. I am heartily in favor of affirmative action programs to help women, people of color, and other historically disadvantaged groups. I am about as white as someone can be genetically speaking, and I am FINE with giving up some of the privilege that goes with that to help others. If you are not that's your problem, I refuse to make it mine.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #192)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:13 PM

193. How about an Asians-only building?

Are Asians disadvantaged enough to deserve their own segregated housing?

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #193)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:17 PM

194. Not playing this game

 

I could tell you a lot about this issue as my wife is Asian and I have become quite familiar with the complex historic, demographic and sociopolitical issues affecting the Asian and Asian-American communities, but I'm not going to. It's very obvious that you're looking for an argument instead of a constructive open-minded discussion and I am not going to expend my energy on that. Have a nice day.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #194)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:46 PM

196. Yep, defending this kind of thing does lead to some tricky, difficult-to-answer questions.

Once you claim that some segregation of certain groups is a good thing, it leads to questions about which groups, specifically, deserve the privilege of being segregated? If some segregation is a good thing, how much segregation is too much? If segregating student housing is good because it prevents students from being "bogged down" by racism, why have racially integrated classes in which (presumably) incidents of racism might occur? Eventually it becomes so difficult to defend it's much easier to say "not playing this game, have a nice day".

My advantage is that my position is very simple: I am opposed to any and all racial segregation. You have a nice day too.

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Response to anigbrowl (Reply #192)

Tue Feb 2, 2016, 03:30 PM

195. I would simply note a belief that affirmative action programs

 

and similar polices are worthwhile is not a reflection on their legality.

Over the last couple of decades the ability of state universities to use racial qualifications and restrictions, or consider race at all, has been substantially curtailed, including a current case before the Supreme Court this term which will likely impose further impediments.

If challenged, UConn's new racially-limited housing could face serious legal difficulties. However, I would imagine the university would make any accommodation possible in order to avoid ever seeing the inside of a courtroom, including admitting a few non-black students in the new housing option.

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