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Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:19 PM Feb 2016

the rise of suicide in middle aged white America: retirement no longer bonus, but time of struggle

The death rate for white Americans aged 45 to 54 has risen sharply since 1999, but Montana officials wrestle to explain why the state has the highest rate of suicide in the US at nearly twice the national average – and it’s rising

Kevin Lowney lies awake some nights wondering if he should kill himself.

“I am in such pain every night, suicide has on a regular basis crossed my mind just simply to ease the pain. If I did not have responsibilities, especially for my youngest daughter who has problems,” he said.

The 56-year-old former salesman’s struggle with chronic pain is bound up with an array of other issues – medical debts, impoverishment and the prospect of a bleak retirement – contributing to growing numbers of suicides in the US and helping drive a sharp and unusual increase in the mortality rate for middle-aged white Americans in recent years alongside premature deaths from alcohol and drugs.

-----

But all of those are longstanding issues in Montana. So what’s changed to drive up the rate of people taking their own lives in recent years?

“Probably the biggest reason is socio-economic. We have about 150,000 people in our state that don’t have access to any type of healthcare, which is a major issue. We have a lot of people living in poverty. Wages are not going up at the same pace as rising health costs, rising cost of living and inflation,” Rosston said.

“Definitely you see a lot of people that all of a sudden they hit 45 or 50 and they don’t see retirement as a bonus. They see something that they’re going to have struggle with and they’re not going to be able to retire.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/07/suicide-rates-rise-butte-montana-princeton-study
68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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the rise of suicide in middle aged white America: retirement no longer bonus, but time of struggle (Original Post) Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 OP
There is a huge retirement crisis looming for us genXers TDale313 Feb 2016 #1
Agree we ain't seen nothing yet. Let's hope there is change by then Person 2713 Feb 2016 #3
Yep, it's going to get much more ugly. nt Lorien Feb 2016 #6
Indeed. nt emmadoggy Feb 2016 #21
Boomers need to get together and create communes where they can flamingdem Feb 2016 #2
Bring back the Depression era County Poor farms? Downwinder Feb 2016 #4
No need to farm, shared care and shared resources flamingdem Feb 2016 #10
Need to have a purpose. Downwinder Feb 2016 #12
Humans are now a resource!! atreides1 Feb 2016 #51
Communes dont provide healthcare. The guy in article was wiped put, put in debt by healthcare Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #7
I've never read anything about this practical concept, only brief mention appalachiablue Feb 2016 #8
I think it's being created informally but it would help if one could also apply flamingdem Feb 2016 #11
There are co-housing communities popping up TexasBushwhacker Feb 2016 #54
Thanks Tex flamingdem Feb 2016 #58
I agree--empty shopping malls, closed college campuses zazen Feb 2016 #66
Who says it hasn't? Fumesucker Feb 2016 #33
Socialist Commie Communes? In Montana? In Utah? In Wyoming? good luck librechik Feb 2016 #50
I imagine that would go down in flames, for one reason NickB79 Feb 2016 #59
I loved Clint in that role nt flamingdem Feb 2016 #61
My middle aged friends and I always talk of *when* we'll be forced Lorien Feb 2016 #5
Thanks for sharing the disturbing reality, for many Americans appalachiablue Feb 2016 #9
Check out this organization: http://www.vtvnetwork.org/ flamingdem Feb 2016 #14
Thanks Flamingdem! Lorien Feb 2016 #19
You're very welcome, if you remember flamingdem Feb 2016 #24
Sounds like an interesting network growing internationally. I'll keep in mind and appalachiablue Feb 2016 #43
In Los Angeles there was just an announcement that unused government flamingdem Feb 2016 #47
Notice how television dramas and comedies rarely show people Lorien Feb 2016 #20
Good point. Tv never shows a person struggling to pay the rent or keep the lights on Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #30
Great post. raccoon Feb 2016 #40
All true Lorien, I remember well the popular 'Roseanne' show. The cost appalachiablue Feb 2016 #45
Yes, my friends and I are all freelancers Lorien Feb 2016 #48
There was a post last week on a thread that kind of hit home on this topic . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #13
Check this out: The Village Movement - there's one in Santa Barbara not LA flamingdem Feb 2016 #15
Montana is one of those Individualism libertarian type states JI7 Feb 2016 #16
It's the end of white hegemony mwrguy Feb 2016 #17
Probably stupid post of the year. n/t brentspeak Feb 2016 #18
You can't honestly say that EL34x4 Feb 2016 #41
Don't know that I'd put it all on that... kjones Feb 2016 #23
Big factor: Guns – Montana is #2 in the percentage of people that own guns ErikJ Feb 2016 #22
suspect suicide is a matter of options and with ready access to a gun the option is always there dembotoz Feb 2016 #44
I wonder if right-wing ideology might be a factor.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #25
I think it cuts across all political beliefs. truedelphi Feb 2016 #27
I'm also going by studdies that showed right wingers have more nightmares. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #28
There is a topic up right now about how in the world can we pay for truedelphi Feb 2016 #29
Tuition used to be free at public colleges.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #32
But I think it might be a chicken vs egg question - which came first? truedelphi Feb 2016 #63
Government commitment to education came first...... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #65
Suicides do rise during Conservative govt.s ErikJ Feb 2016 #46
I have a $500k insurance policy through work awoke_in_2003 Feb 2016 #26
.. Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #31
When the shit kept hitting the fan again and again artislife Feb 2016 #38
Nitrogen bag whatthehey Feb 2016 #42
Facing illnesses that are only going to get worse, trying to live on $300 a month + food stamps Dragonfli Feb 2016 #34
I'm so sorry for your problems and the loss of your wife. area51 Feb 2016 #36
yes, but that happened some time ago. You must have been posting here for a long time. /nt Dragonfli Feb 2016 #37
Better say: time of dispair. snot Feb 2016 #35
Unbelievable malaise Feb 2016 #39
The despair and hopelessness are crushing people Arazi Feb 2016 #49
This age group has been raised with some unreal expectations. jwirr Feb 2016 #52
I feel for that guy in the story ... earthside Feb 2016 #53
Medical bills are a bitch. Even the famous radio artist Joe Frank is struggling to pay them Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #68
Like the stock market crash that led into the great depression Babel_17 Feb 2016 #55
This is happening here in Johnson County, Kansas... KansDem Feb 2016 #56
I'm hoping my plan holds together madville Feb 2016 #57
you are very, very lucky! shanti Feb 2016 #64
Montana isn't the only one. Here in OK Runningdawg Feb 2016 #60
This is such an important story flamingdem Feb 2016 #62
Add age-ism to their problems. Floridanow Feb 2016 #67

TDale313

(7,822 posts)
1. There is a huge retirement crisis looming for us genXers
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:24 PM
Feb 2016

The baby boomers will face struggles, but you will really see a whole generation with very little safety net when my generation retires. Especially if they start messing with SS and Medicare.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
2. Boomers need to get together and create communes where they can
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:25 PM
Feb 2016

share costs and help one another.

I'm surprised that this hasn't started already.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
10. No need to farm, shared care and shared resources
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:02 AM
Feb 2016

are what is needed. Rents are too damn high and forget about getting any care if one needs at home help, but people can help one another if they share living spaces.

atreides1

(16,799 posts)
51. Humans are now a resource!!
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:26 PM
Feb 2016

Much like oil, or pork bellies!


What happens when a resource has been used up? You get a replacement...and use that one until it's no longer viable!

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
7. Communes dont provide healthcare. The guy in article was wiped put, put in debt by healthcare
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:46 PM
Feb 2016

appalachiablue

(44,022 posts)
8. I've never read anything about this practical concept, only brief mention
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:46 PM
Feb 2016

of some towns/communities that I thought were survivalist type, although I didn't explore the info. in depth to verify. There's a real need currently and in the near future for a group, communal solution and the absence of one is strange.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
11. I think it's being created informally but it would help if one could also apply
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:04 AM
Feb 2016

to be a part of a group. I've heard about some communities and there is an organization that helps people who want to "age in place". Forgot the name but I can google for it There are of course great communities that cost a lot. Those are the old folks homes that are updated and connected to universities and the like.

zazen

(2,978 posts)
66. I agree--empty shopping malls, closed college campuses
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 07:28 PM
Feb 2016

Even empty office parks, potentially. . . .

It seems like a lot of these that are just sitting there could be retrofitted for shared housing with HOA dues that go to pay salaries of nurse, home care, etc. You could have a cafeteria, other commons areas like student dorms. You'd have to get through the liability issues and figure out how to support higher risk, high need members without turning them away, but there's got to be some shared economic model (not a for- profit retirement community corporation) where 50 up to 70 somethings can begin to pool resources

librechik

(30,957 posts)
50. Socialist Commie Communes? In Montana? In Utah? In Wyoming? good luck
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:20 PM
Feb 2016

I'm pretty sure anyone who can socialize is already doing it:

https://www.tentree.com/blog/modern-hippie/

among many others on google

NickB79

(20,354 posts)
59. I imagine that would go down in flames, for one reason
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:26 PM
Feb 2016

Too many yahoos that think and act like this moving in:

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
5. My middle aged friends and I always talk of *when* we'll be forced
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:42 PM
Feb 2016

to consider suicide, not *if*. Everyone is completely exhausted, all of us have chronic health issues that have wiped out what savings we had. No one thinks that they'll be able to afford retirement. That's why Bernie supporters are so passionate; it's about survival for millions of us, and for the environment as well.

appalachiablue

(44,022 posts)
9. Thanks for sharing the disturbing reality, for many Americans
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:02 AM
Feb 2016

and a concern I'm not unfamiliar with. It's exactly about survival for millions and the planet, conditions becoming worse every year it seems and no solutions from our diminished, corrupted govt. and institutions. The young people get it though, for they have been impacted the most severely. This country's decline and unnecessary misery over 20+ years is deplorable. So many people don't realize it because of the phony mask kept up by the corp. media as intended.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
14. Check out this organization: http://www.vtvnetwork.org/
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:15 AM
Feb 2016
http://www.vtvnetwork.org/

It's a start, not everywhere though.

--
The Village movement has become a stunning example of how community collaborations can help older Americans improve the quality of their lives, remain in their homes as they age, and save money in the process. And with the government facing enormous deficits for the foreseeable future, Villages also represent a welcome, cost-effective way for citizens to take responsibility for themselves during an era of declining public resources.

According to the Village to Village Network, there are currently (as of September 2015) about 190 Villages operating across the U.S., in Canada, Australia, and the Netherlands, with over 120 additional Villages in development. However, that is literally the tip of a large and growing movement. Candace Baldwin, Director of Strategy for Aging in Community at NCB Capital Impact and the Village to Village Network, says representatives from 600 communities have attended various Village meetings in the past year or so.

To some people, a Village might sound like nothing more than a modern-day replacement for close-knit family support. For most families, today's lifestyle is very different from years ago when relatives were viable options for support on an everyday basis. And even aging parents with nearby children and grandchildren often must seek broader support networks. With the increasing lifespan of our elders, we are also looking to provide support for the adult children of aging parents.

What People are Saying
“When I joined SBV it was actually to broaden my horizons and meet new people. Never did I guess how desperately I would need rides to Dr. appointments and much much more. Healing is SLOW but it is better each day. You have been so very wonderful. Thank you so much.”
- Pat M., SB Village Member

appalachiablue

(44,022 posts)
43. Sounds like an interesting network growing internationally. I'll keep in mind and
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:32 AM
Feb 2016

pass along to some contacts. Now I recall the 'aging in place' concept from news coverage about 4-5 years ago before conditions and austerity had become so severe. What I saw was a feature on a group of older women, perhaps a couple men in a Boston area neighborhood where they had lived for some time and didn't want to move.

Most of the members were in their 60s and 70s, financially alright, living independently in their own homes and in fairly good health but without spouses or children nearby. Their arrangement was mainly focused on keeping in contact by phone or otherwise, letting each other know if help with errands, transportation or problems was needed. ~

Thanks for the information, it's encouraging and innovative.
Although I don't farm, gardening is a passion and I know a fair amount about cooking and healthy eating. I've experience caring for a couple relatives dealing with medical matters and worked in the health and disability field. My mother and grandmothers, one with a small farm late in life, another a backyard fruit orchard I fondly remember making jams and canning when I was a small child.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
47. In Los Angeles there was just an announcement that unused government
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:09 PM
Feb 2016

plots could be turned into gardens. Combining that with communities consciously helping older adults and we're getting somewhere. It's easy to feel despair in these times but there are lots of resources, we just need to find the energy (or coffee) needed to take steps.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
20. Notice how television dramas and comedies rarely show people
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:33 AM
Feb 2016

in "average" American homes and apartments? The characters almost always live in upper middle class homes at the very least.

I saw a clip from "Roseanne" not long ago. I was struck by the fact that we thought of them as a blue collar, working class family at the time. But honestly, a home like theirs would go for 400k in my neighborhood. Blue collar families around here live in small cramped apartments, ramshackle little rental houses (1,200 or smaller) or trailers. That was only the 1980s. In the 1970s my grandfather worked a lower middle class job and put four kids through college, retired at 55 with his home paid off, took a trip around the world with his wife and never had to worry about not being able to pay his basic bills. That's unheard of these days! We're more productive than ever before, but all of the gains go to the 0.01%. Young people know this, and I think some of them wonder if it's even worth it to try anymore. Even my top students can't find regular work after graduation. The bounce around freelancing for one company after another, sometimes not getting paid. And the more average students? I have no idea what happens to them, but it can't be good.

raccoon

(32,390 posts)
40. Great post.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 08:03 AM
Feb 2016
The characters almost always live in upper middle class homes at the very least.

appalachiablue

(44,022 posts)
45. All true Lorien, I remember well the popular 'Roseanne' show. The cost
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:09 AM
Feb 2016

of homes and other basic necessities have escalated in the last 10-20 years especially. It's obscene, and young people with genuine concerns have been robbed of a decent future unless real change happens soon.
A 'career' is becoming less and less of an opportunity, rapidly being replaced by tasks, multiple projects and irregular jobs, many without benefits, something that was unheard of a few decades ago. I took notice when reading Robert Reich's piece on his website addressing this growing reality and posted here,



*WHY THE SHARING ECONOMY IS HARMING WORKERS – AND WHAT MUST BE DONE*, ROBERT REICH, Nov. 27, '15.

In this holiday season it’s especially appropriate to acknowledge how many Americans don’t have steady work.
The so-called “share economy” includes independent contractors, temporary workers, the self-employed, part-timers, freelancers, and free agents. Most file 1099s rather than W2s, for tax purposes.

-->It’s estimated that in five years over 40 percent of the American labor force will be in such uncertain work; in a decade, most of us. Already two-thirds of American workers are living paycheck to paycheck.

This trend shifts all economic risks onto workers. A downturn in demand, or sudden change in consumer needs, or a personal injury or sickness, can make it impossible to pay the bills. It eliminates labor protections such as the minimum wage, worker safety, family and medical leave, and overtime. And it ends employer-financed insurance – Social Security, workers’ compensation, unemployment benefits, and employer-provided health insurance under the Affordable Care Act.

No wonder, according to polls, almost a quarter of American workers worry they won’t be earning enough in the future. That’s up from 15 percent a decade ago. Such uncertainty can be hard on families, too. Children of parents working unpredictable schedules or outside standard daytime working hours are likely to have lower cognitive skills and more behavioral problems, according to new research. What to do? ~ READ MORE: http://robertreich.org/post/134080559175

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
48. Yes, my friends and I are all freelancers
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:13 PM
Feb 2016

I haven't had employee benefits and sick pay for more than 20 years! The stress never ends for freelancers.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
13. There was a post last week on a thread that kind of hit home on this topic . . .
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:11 AM
Feb 2016
Because they are gradually realizing that they are not "exceptional"

We have been avidly listening to politicians tell us that we are exceptional, number one in the world. If you're not a millionaire in this country, it's only because you haven't worked hard enough, or maybe you need an advanced degree or another programming language. It's slowly dawning on the populace that they've been sold a bill of goods. They work longer hours, skip vacations, settle for fewer benefits and meager raises, get degrees and certificates, and they are standing still, or worse, going backwards.

They are slowly coming to the realization that they've been lied to.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
15. Check this out: The Village Movement - there's one in Santa Barbara not LA
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:17 AM
Feb 2016

I wish it was more extensive. This kind of thing will grow since the need is there. I hope so anyway.

--
The Village movement has become a stunning example of how community collaborations can help older Americans improve the quality of their lives, remain in their homes as they age, and save money in the process. And with the government facing enormous deficits for the foreseeable future, Villages also represent a welcome, cost-effective way for citizens to take responsibility for themselves during an era of declining public resources.

According to the Village to Village Network, there are currently (as of September 2015) about 190 Villages operating across the U.S., in Canada, Australia, and the Netherlands, with over 120 additional Villages in development. However, that is literally the tip of a large and growing movement. Candace Baldwin, Director of Strategy for Aging in Community at NCB Capital Impact and the Village to Village Network, says representatives from 600 communities have attended various Village meetings in the past year or so.

To some people, a Village might sound like nothing more than a modern-day replacement for close-knit family support. For most families, today's lifestyle is very different from years ago when relatives were viable options for support on an everyday basis. And even aging parents with nearby children and grandchildren often must seek broader support networks. With the increasing lifespan of our elders, we are also looking to provide support for the adult children of aging parents.

What People are Saying
“When I joined SBV it was actually to broaden my horizons and meet new people. Never did I guess how desperately I would need rides to Dr. appointments and much much more. Healing is SLOW but it is better each day. You have been so very wonderful. Thank you so much.”
- Pat M., SB Village Member

JI7

(93,615 posts)
16. Montana is one of those Individualism libertarian type states
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:21 AM
Feb 2016

so they are less likely to support govt programs and also probably don't have the support from the churches that are more available in southern conservative areas.

libertarianism just sucks.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
41. You can't honestly say that
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:24 AM
Feb 2016

until you've read the rest of mrwguy's posts. Give him credit though. He's always trying to outdo himself. It what trolls do.

kjones

(1,059 posts)
23. Don't know that I'd put it all on that...
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:56 AM
Feb 2016

but yeah...at very least, given the disparity in black-white economic conditions, yet the fact
that black suicide rates are lower than whites...sort of throws a wrench in the "it's all economics!"
narrative.

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
22. Big factor: Guns – Montana is #2 in the percentage of people that own guns
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:54 AM
Feb 2016
Guns – Montana is number two in the percentage of people that own firearms. While firearms account for only five percent of all suicide attempts, they nationally account for more than 50 percent of all completions. In Montana, 65 percent of all suicides are carried out by firearms.

Read More: Why Does Montana Have a High Suicide Rate? | http://newstalkkgvo.com/why-does-montana-have-a-high-suicide-rate/?trackback=tsmclip
 

dembotoz

(16,922 posts)
44. suspect suicide is a matter of options and with ready access to a gun the option is always there
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

more gun= more opportunity = more suicide


simple math

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
25. I wonder if right-wing ideology might be a factor....
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:48 AM
Feb 2016

These guys might feel they did everything right by parroting Hannity and Limbaugh but find they still aren't rich and then their wife leaves them and takes the kids.

And she took the truck too.

And the dog.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
27. I think it cuts across all political beliefs.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:10 AM
Feb 2016

Not having any suicide ideations is usually much more about having a decent place to live, a job you enjoy or can at least tolerate, a little money in the bank, a body free of pain, and not having to struggle every day against unbearable odds.

Be sure and get back to me and tell me how comforting your liberal attitudes are if it is your retirement that gets wiped out after a major illness or two.

In fact, when my household was hit by a medical bankruptcy, it was our RW Christian neighbors who helped see to it that our rent got paid, that we had food on the table etc.

Our more liberal friends seemed to think that maybe if our retirement funds had been bigger, or if we hadn't been too stupid to avoid paying for health insurance, then we would have been okay.
(At the time of our bankruptcy,we had been paying COBRA $ 957 month for our health insurance.)

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
29. There is a topic up right now about how in the world can we pay for
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:53 AM
Feb 2016

Free college tuition for everybody who wants that education...

My suggestion: Stop all these inane studies and we'd have plenty of money to help people get through school.

And yr "nightmare studies" reminds me of the Noetics Science Institute that "have proven" by one of their studies that ill people who were prayed for recovered from illnesses more often than those that were not.

Of course, it might be true, because if you have a lot of friends and family, then they will come to the hospital and visit you so then you won't have to worry as much about the doctors getting yr meds wrong, the nurses' aides forgetting to feed you, etc.

But not sure it has to do with prayer.


 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
32. Tuition used to be free at public colleges....
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:41 AM
Feb 2016

BTW: Found one of the older studies.

DAILY NEWS 11 July 2001
[font size=6 type=times]Bad dreams haunt right-wingers[/font]

The further your politics lean to the right the more likely you are to have nightmares, according to a dream researcher from Santa Clara University in California.

Kelly Bulkeley found that US Republicans are almost three times more likely to have bad dreams than Democrats.

“That’s a lot. No wonder they’re twitching all the time,” says Rick Hess, spokesman for the Democratic party in Washington DC. “Even during the election Bush was saying some pretty scary things. If I were a Republican right now, I’d be having nightmares too.”

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn996-bad-dreams-haunt-right-wingers/

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
63. But I think it might be a chicken vs egg question - which came first?
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:09 PM
Feb 2016

I know two very conservative RW people - both were tortured as children.

One of them grew up in the 1950's in Chicago - by the age of three, she was totally responsible for her 11 month old brother. Her dad was an alcoholic and her mom had left.

I'd certainly embrace Jesus and be RW and have nightmares if that had been my childhood. (I too had grown up in Chicago in the 1950's. But there the resemblance ends. I had two very loving parents and never had to do more than set the kitchen table, at the age of eight.)

The other one is a close family member now age thirty who had been taken from her home of birth by Child Protective Agency. By the time she was eight, it was being claimed that she had attempted to murder her new foster brother. Luckily for her, she got one of the better foster family agency people to investigate what had really gone on with the foster brother. And that person then adopted her.

But she too has embraced Jesus. I imagine she has nightmares, as would any of us if by the age of eight, we were yanked from our home of origin due to somewhat bogus claims of child abuse, put into the nightmare that is the foster care agency "care system" and then been yanked from the new home due to her "having attempted to murder her foster brother."

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
65. Government commitment to education came first......
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:31 PM
Feb 2016

Then came cutbacks due to tax cuts for the rich.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
26. I have a $500k insurance policy through work
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:56 AM
Feb 2016

the thought of how to die, and not make it look like suicide, has crossed my mind on many occasions.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
38. When the shit kept hitting the fan again and again
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 06:35 AM
Feb 2016

I thought of driving I-90 into the Cascades and going over the side. But I had a friend who could use my Kia Rio Cinco so I thought it would be a waste to total the car... I then thought of going in winter and leaving the car and heading into the snow...like To Build a Fire...



Somehow, I kept putting one foot in front of the other and I think I am through the worst of it.


Of course, who knows what will happen in the future..

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
42. Nitrogen bag
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:24 AM
Feb 2016

If it gets to that: Google how to on a pubic ccomputer or use a VPN. Buy a tank cash. Wait a while. Painless. Effective. Not impossible but very difficult to distinguish from natural causes and who's going to look that hard without any other indications, especially if you have underlying health problems?

Only complexity at all is someone you can trust to remove the bag and tank before they call 911.

Note to blissninny alerters: I'm sharing my own plan with someone who expressed an interest in how to achieve the same end, not encouraging them to do anything. Aperson's life is their own choice, not mine. But sure as shit not yours either.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
34. Facing illnesses that are only going to get worse, trying to live on $300 a month + food stamps
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:48 AM
Feb 2016

Being disabled and being stalled for 4 years now even tho I payed into FICA since I was 16 for SSDI and there is no doubt about my being disabled. Being in constant pain but unable to get meds because where I live (better dead than on pain meds is a motto of the state)

I see suicide as the only logical path at the moment.

The silliest thing is, I am only still alive because I worry what will happen to my dog. I don't want her put down or placed in a bad home, or more likely shot for being a dog by the police for fun when they find me.

I can say I understand at least some of these people, depending on their circumstances.
With my wife dead and no way to work and no family. I think it is a no brainer if my dog dies or I somehow find her a better place for her to live. She is not large, a youngish smart as a whip little Jack Russel Terrier.
My only reason to continue living in this poverty and pain is that sweat little dog.

And to think, just ten years ago I made a decent enough wage working with my hands and living with the most beautiful woman in the world to me.

Oh well, that's the breaks I guess,

area51

(12,690 posts)
36. I'm so sorry for your problems and the loss of your wife.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:42 AM
Feb 2016

I believe you mentioned that insurance cos. delayed her health care, causing her death.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
37. yes, but that happened some time ago. You must have been posting here for a long time. /nt
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:52 AM
Feb 2016

snot

(11,804 posts)
35. Better say: time of dispair.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:02 AM
Feb 2016

Worked 40 to 70 hrs for nearly half a century. Thought I'd saved enough to retire in 2008. Bush melted 25% of all I'd saved. Been lucky since to preserve the 75% I had left. No idea whether it will survive the next looting, which seems immanent; but I haven't identified any safe havens . . . there are none left, for the likes of us . . . ?

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
52. This age group has been raised with some unreal expectations.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:29 PM
Feb 2016

When they reached adulthood they fully expected to have a good job with benefits for the rest of their lives. They expected to achieve at least a part of the American Dream. You know - like owning a home, having money for their child's education and enough for retirement.

For a few years it actually looked like that is what was happening. But then raygun was elected and started attacking the unions which led to jobs problems and they finally realized they were not getting ahead like they had expected. So in anger many of them started voting for Rs who blamed this whole change on the poor, minorities and taxes.

But this did not seem to help so they turned to Bill Clinton and the DLC never guessing that this group were leaning more toward the Rs than the Democrats that they remembered from the earlier days. So yes, they had a few good years on the stock market but wages and jobs did not rebound to their original state. President Obama tried but he also was unable to turn us back to the days when we were actually creating a middle class instead of loosing it.

Today they are on the verge of that retirement they looked forward to and they realize that even that is threatened. They are waking up to a nightmare. They have traveled a road from the hope of a good future world to the disillusionment most of us have today.

That coupled with the real pains of aging and the new problems that they never foresaw, like climate change, wealth inequality, lack of healthcare just when they need it most, the high cost of college for their children, the idea of continual war, media lies and many with not enough income to live on - it is not surprising that they are taking the "easy" way out.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
53. I feel for that guy in the story ...
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:39 PM
Feb 2016

... I'm 59 years old and I see and hear this in my contemporaries more and more all the time.

All I can say is that "first woman president" does not address our concerns one bit.

So, I see some latch onto the Trump message because it articulates the anger, frustration and sense of purposelessness. But mostly if there was a leader who talked seriously to Americans in this demographic bracket, it would give some hope.

There is one candidate doing that ... maybe even Montana is within reach if Democrats dare to nominate Sanders. (Actually Montana has a populist tradition that is still there if the right candidate came along to activate it.)

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
68. Medical bills are a bitch. Even the famous radio artist Joe Frank is struggling to pay them
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:00 AM
Feb 2016
https://www.gofundme.com/joefrank


Created on January 11, 2016



In mid-December 2015, my husband, Joe Frank, became ill. This is one in a long list of medical issues he has faced since he was born, beginning with corrective surgeries for clubbed feet between the ages of 3 and 5. He's survived cancer three times - the first time, he was given three months to live when he was just in his early 20s. Since then, he's had numerous hospitalizations and surgeries for a host of issues. Ten years ago, he suffered from kidney failure and was on dialysis for a year-and-a-half until he received a kidney donated by his cousin. In addition, for years, he's been enduring and managing pain caused by severe scoliosis of his spine.

I cannot express how much I admire Joe's courage and will to live. He has heard bad news on many occasions yet possessed the strength, courage and had the good fortune to beat the odds.

I long for that outcome now.

Forgive me for not providing details about what has taken place in the last month. I am in a condition of overwhelm. I've watched Joe face a myriad of diagnoses in the last month which has included sepsis, heart attack and pancreatic cancer.

At midnight on New Year's Eve, we were in the ER at Cedars-Sinai hospital with a dear friend and one of Joe's doctors (who left a party to be with Joe.) It was surreal to see the high-spirited celebrations on television bringing in the new year while in an emergency room hospital setting.

Until last month, Joe worked daily: posting on Facebook, recording material for his next radio program, and preparing notes for future projects. It is my deep hope and longing that he will return to that work. It gives him meaning and profound pleasure. I think some of his latest programs are among his best work.

I dearly wish to see him come home with all of these medical issues resolved soon so that he can begin recuperating.

When he does come home, however, he will be on IV medications which are not covered by insurance. The last time he returned from the hospital for a treatment of IV fluids, our out-of-pocket costs were $1500.00. That was for just five 5 days' worth of medication. This time, he will receive an IV cocktail for a month at minimum ($350 per day will be our cost - factoring in the equipment to administer the meds). (1/14 - just found out this could go on indefinitely. But Joe is determined to do whatever he needs to in order to lessen the time the IV Meds are required.)

We will need to hire someone to attend to him full-time since he is physically compromised. We don't yet know how long that will last or exactly how much that will cost. We understand that it will take a minimum of 6 weeks and conceivably several months before he gets his physical strength and mobility back. (Today, 1/13, my research shows it could be a breathtaking $200,000 if we have to hire someone full-time for a long period. Again Joe is committed to becoming strong again as soon as possible)

To top it all off, out-of-pocket cost for Joe's usual medications along with insurance payments is on average $10,000 to $12,000 per year. I am not sure what additional meds he will require after the latest hospitalization and diagnosis, but there will be at least three more.

Joe's income is based on his work for Unfictional . There was a time when he could produce up to four shows a year, which barely managed to pay the bills. But now our financial security is threatened. Joe is eager to get back to work, but requires sufficient time and care to do so.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
55. Like the stock market crash that led into the great depression
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:43 PM
Feb 2016

Lose your stock market based retirement savings, then your income, and then you become unwanted in the job market. That was what many faced, and many more faced some of that.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
56. This is happening here in Johnson County, Kansas...
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:47 PM
Feb 2016

From 2012--

Middle Aged White Males Drive Up Suicide Rate In Johnson County

KCUR’s Susan Wilson talked to therapist Rennie Shuler-McKinney. Rennie has worked at Shawnee Mission Medical Center in the behavioral health program for the past 25 years. They talked about warning signs, area resources and possible reasons for the increase.

Interview Highlights
“You know we’re still in the middle of this economic crisis and my belief is that, and what I hear from our patients, those men who have made a serious attempt at their life, they’re struggling with that sense of failure. They’ve been fairly successful in running a household, maintaining a job, providing for their families. And with numerous layoffs throughout the community, men are finding themselves, initially after the layoff they’re energized to go out and find a new job, and they’re working maybe off a severance package and they have some money or maybe they’re tapping into their retirement. But then as time goes along, and the jobs aren’t out there, they’re finding themselves in a huge financial crisis. And for the first time in their life they’re facing a situation where they’re no longer feeling that they’re the main provider for their family.”

“They’ve (men) been able to provide for a very nice home and a nice lifestyle and when they’re not able to provide that anymore and they’re having to sell material items just to get by month to month. I think that’s playing a larger impact on those individuals.”

“In our assessment and intake center here at the hospital, we average over 350 calls every month. And many of those are from loved ones that are concerned because the person that’s experiencing the difficulties often don’t know where to reach, or to embarrassed to reach out and ask for help. SO often the spouse is the one that’s making that initial phone to call to say, ‘Can you help me? Here are some things I’m seeing, what do you think I might need to do next?’”

“Expectations in our community is that we do more with less in pretty much every organization, and with those pressures we’re seeing more and more men come in and ask for help.”

--more--
http://kcur.org/post/middle-aged-white-males-drive-suicide-rate-johnson-county#stream/0


Johnson County, Kansas, is considered middle- to upper-middle class.

madville

(7,847 posts)
57. I'm hoping my plan holds together
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:55 PM
Feb 2016

I have two pensions and TRICARE that will start paying out at age 57. My employer will also start paying out a social security supplement at that time which is equal to what I will draw at age 62.5.

Between those and my investment fund I should be at around $6,000 a month in income in retirement. I currently have no debt, own my house and my kid is over 18 so I hope the plan holds together.

It's still possible but one has to commit 20-40 years to an employer to get in that position now. Things like federal civilian employment, the military, some state jobs, law enforcement, fire fighter, railroads, electric utility companies, etc still have decent retirent packages.

shanti

(21,799 posts)
64. you are very, very lucky!
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:19 PM
Feb 2016

i have a friend who is also drawing 2 pensions: military and state, plus he receives SS. doesn't own a house, though. it is still possible for others now, but you have to be stable and, again, luck has a lot to do with it. i only have one pension, 1/3 of what you get (and will have SS in a few), still making mortgage payments, but consider myself lucky to have it. knowing that i'll never be a bag lady gives me great comfort.

peace

Runningdawg

(4,664 posts)
60. Montana isn't the only one. Here in OK
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:52 PM
Feb 2016

In the past 2 years I have lost 3 friends to suicide - Ages 47, 51 and 55. All were males. 1 was a vet with PTSD, the other 2 had ongoing chronic illnesses, that had ruined their lives financially. One committed suicide when the sheriff came to evict him. In the same length of time I have lost 2 female friends - Ages 52 and 50 who died from illness that weren't discovered until just a few days before their deaths, since they couldn't afford healthcare, even with insurance.
Finally one female friend, tried but did not succeed with taking her own life. She made the attempt after her Dr retired and the Dr that took his place refused to refill any of her chronic pain meds.
I'm 55, as a child, I thought I would live to be 75-80. With the way things are now, I think I will be lucky if I see 60. Just for the record, I have no plans to commit suicide, unless I am diagnosed with a terminal disease. In that case, the sooner the better. I won't allow my family to be forced into bankruptcy by my illness and death.

flamingdem

(40,888 posts)
62. This is such an important story
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:55 PM
Feb 2016

and I mean the trend - so sad for my generation. I hate Reagan for starters.

I'm forever grateful to Obama for getting ACA through, even with its imperfections it has helped some to survive.

Very sorry for the loss of your friends. The Vet issue needs to be front and center, now.

 

Floridanow

(74 posts)
67. Add age-ism to their problems.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 08:39 PM
Feb 2016

When a person get to mid-fifties employers ignore their resumes. I have seen that dynamic happen when I interviewed people for technical jobs.

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