Are you a card carrying Socialist? I am.

[hobbit709]

[EdwardBernays]

1. I get it

but that's not what socialism is...

[Bohemianwriter]

2. It has a socialist sentiment to it..

Every government program (funded by the tax payers) are socialist programs.

Thomas Jefferson advocated free housing for the poor in Washington D,C, A socualist program even if the term wasn't coined at the time.
That fella most of us celebrate once a year, not just a socialist, but a full blown commie! Even though the term wasn't coined 2000 years ago...

[EdwardBernays]

10. No.

Sadly that's just some kinda weird American misappropriation of the word.

Misuse of the term

"Particularly in the United States, the term "socialization" has been mistakenly used to refer to any state or government-operated industry or service (the proper term for such being either nationalization or municipalization). It has also been used to mean any tax-funded programs, whether privately run or government run. The term "socialized" is usually used in a pejorative sense, most commonly in reference to publicly funded health care programs.[43]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_ownership

For it to be socialized control over it would have to be controlled directly by the owners.

I know what you mean but the correct term is probably nationalized medicine. But even that is not quite right.

[Bohemianwriter]

18. Well...We call it social democracy here in Norway....

Last edited Tue Feb 16, 2016, 04:59 PM - Edit history (1)

Despite our present RW government who seek to dismantle these social programs...

[EdwardBernays]

20. Yeah

Social Democracy is what most Europeans seems to call it.

But it's not socialism... It's just lingo I guess. But it's good to use the words as correctly as possible I suppose. To avoid confusion.

[Bohemianwriter]

21. I've always found it a bit strange that someone would switch the two words...

And call themselves democratic socialists...
But socialism comes in many forms and is not a single term definition.

[EdwardBernays]

26. Yeah

But traditionally all versions of socialism have social ownership and democratic control over of the "means of production"... Without that it's something else like nationalization, etc.

And social ownership isn't nationalization...

We're thinking of visiting Norway this summer... I'm in Ireland. Would love to see what it's all about.

[Bohemianwriter]

29. I used to work in Ireland...

Between 2004 and 2012 on and off.

Three years in Belfast and two years on and off in the Dublin area.
Nice island. I bit windy and little insolation and heating in the houses. The healthcare system is a disgrace...and expensive. Worker's rights in the dumps, and corporations getting a free range.

Wrote this piece back in 2011 when I was working for HP in Leixlip, or at the time after I left HP and went into Dublin to walk the footsteps of Patrick Kavanagh. I was losing teeth at that time as well.

https://bohemianwriter1.wordpress.com/2011/04/26/whats-wrong-with-ireland/

You might think I am bashing Ireland, but I wrote it because I care about Ireland and think it has been screwed over by corporate politicians and religious wingnuts (the abortion issue)...Personally, you'd find me hanging with the real humans at FibberMcGees...

[EdwardBernays]

30. I'll read it

And probably agree with most of it.

Ireland is weird place. Half American half European. Which is probably why so many American corporations base here. The Healthcare isn't great, but still better than in the States. So are the schools. And frankly the government. And the standard of living.

But it's not really European in many ways. Which is of course disappointing...

And fibbers.. I know it well. I live in Rathfarnham... Lovely area.. Great schools in many ways... Very safe and whatnot. Lots of family as well.. So that's obviously a factor.

If we didn't have the kids or the family we'd probably move to Sweden (friends) or Germany (work)...

[Bohemianwriter]

36. South side of Dublin is the posh area...

As far as In understand. When walking the footsteps of Patrick Kavanagh (in a literary sense), I lived mostly in hostels south of Liffey.
The last time I lived on the north side while working for XBox in Swords.

You also confirmed my observation about Ireland being half European and half American in an economic and to some extent cultural sense. Two McDonald's & two Burger Kings on the same side of O'Connell Street? Seriously?
I know that Irish cuisine is not internationally known, and Guinness is the best food from there, but two of each on both sides of the street? I guess drunkenness doesn't make one a fuzzy eater, eh?

When I was there, unemployment rate was 13%. 23% of the total active work force was migrant workers. Still not the disgusting anti-immigrant sentiment in the population though.

Belfast is a different beast altogether...

[EdwardBernays]

35. Ha!

I remember when that piece was circulated around in the media. I read it then as well...

I don't disagree with much.

I would say that part of the corruption in Ireland is cronyism and cronyism is almost impossible to stop, and in a small place it's damn near impossible. People always show bias towards friends and people like themselves... Well the vast majority do. And because Ireland is often just a bunch of guys that went to school together it can seem very corrupt.

I'm a US expat though so relative to my experiences in America I am generally not as down on Ireland - relatively speaking.

And having lived years in the UK well.. Ireland seems downright civilized in so many respect by comparison... Then again I had an awful time in the UK.

[Bohemianwriter]

40. I'm glad you have already read it. Who would have known?

I remember....
That piece got a spike of visitors a period in 2011. I wondered what the hell just happen there?

"And having lived years in the UK well.. Ireland seems downright civilized in so many respect by comparison... Then again I had an awful time in the UK."

The Irishmen were more fun to deal with than the brits. At least in the pubs.
In England, I felt my job was better protected in some ways. When I fell ill the summer of 2010 while working for HTC between Bournemoth and Poole, and went through some hard times (went into hybronation, a PTSD symptom), the doctor gave me weekly notices for work so I wouldn't loose any income while bein ill. My teamleader came to my place and picked it up weekly as well. The office manager was on first name basis with everyone. In comparison as in Dundalk, the American owners came for a few hour visit in their private jet, sat at the office above the production area, and went playing golf the rest of the time. Didn't spend a single moment saying hello to their wage slaves (I was working for NPL in Dundalk, producing promotional pens and material the fall of 2009... on the Norwegian help desk).

In Ireland, I would have lost a months salary and would have to pay €50 just to see a doctor. In England, it didn't cause me any economic inconvenience. In that perspective, England is much better regarding healthcare and national insurance.

I did however, miss Ireland when getting bored out of my skull in Hobbiton. And started loosing teeth like hell when arriving the end of 2010 and it was a bloody blizard on "my green island". That's when I started yearning for Norwegian food and started to lose weight.

[EdwardBernays]

42. Your piece

Was in the media here... At least on a few news websites. Maybe even the Irish Times! I'll see if I can find it again.

And yes 100% the UK Healthcare system is much much better. But having worked in a Uni in London I can tell you the education system is very hit and miss... I frequently ran into near illiteracy... Plus the Brits are endlessly more racist...

Believe it or not I actually. Watched a 2 hour bus tour of Norway on YouTube. Some guys trip to a glacier... But because he was on a tour bus the entire tourist info was there as well... Very interesting. The tour guide seemed Asian. And he called Norway Socialist. Or maybe even Communist. Pretty funny.

[Bohemianwriter]

43. It started hitting a peak...

while The Welfare Queen of Buckingham and Obama came to visit.

I was staying at a travelers hostel, having close view of the riot that occurred when Queen Elisabeth came. It was quite a spectacle. A window view to the bashing.

It was also a time when money was running out, and I stared complete homelessness in the eye. Down and out in Dublin Town....

" Plus the Brits are endlessly more racist... "

And in posh areas, they are vehemently defensive on behalf of their welfare queen of Buckingham.

Just a week before I was leaving England for Ireland and Leixlip in 2010, I scolded a doorman at my neighborhood pub who had this idiotic prejudice against the Irish. At least he eventually saw the errors of his ways after some convincing. (No! I didn't beat him! Only with words)

A queen worshiper is a fundie.
As a Norwegian, I don't experience racism in England. And I can diss Dubliners with my years in Belfast without people getting offended. I consider Dublin almost a home away from home, and England a playground these days. No more selling my soul to corporations for me. I think I'll write a book or two about the travels instead...

[EdwardBernays]

44. I never personally

Was attacked for my race in London but saw it on a daily basis in the jobs I worked. Just open blatant racism... And it went all directions. Anti- white black siekh Muslim Christian jew poor rich young old... Ok some of those aren't races. But you know what I mean.

I grew up in the deep South in the US and London was almost as bad sometimes. Very surprised.

And the Brits... Half of them think Ireland is still part of the UK. Lol.

[brooklynite]

3. You support the nationalization of the means of production? I don't.

Otherwise, made-up definitions don't count.

[RoccoR5955]

6. I believe that certain industries should be nationalized.

Like defense, public safety, education, roads, public transportation, and healthcare.

[1939]

11. Healthcare

Just expand the VA hospital system and open it to everybody (yep, that will work).

[RoccoR5955]

12. I believe that it could be better than

going bankrupt to get medical care if it was improved.

[Bucky]

14. ROADS?!! WTF?! THIS ISN'T COMMUNIST UNDERGROUND!!!!11!!eleven!!!!!1!!

obviously you're in the pocket of big concrete

[blue neen]

38. DUzy!

"obviously you're in the pocket of big concrete"

[Doctor_J]

9. Neither does Sanders, but that doesn't stop the DINOs from calling him one

[Bohemianwriter]

19. Healthcare and education should be nationalized...

So should elections. That means same rules all over, equal air time and coverage of 3rd party candidates as well as debates...And that the VOTERS count and not the "superdelegagtes"...

[brooklynite]

4. I met a delegation from Denmark at the NH Primary... they don't consider themselves socialist.

Their leading party isn't Socialist; it's Social Democratic.

[Bohemianwriter]

22. It depends on who you are talking to...

[RoccoR5955]

5. Mine is red.

I wonder if it makes a difference.

[hobbit709]

7. Medicare card is. I got one of those too.

[Doctor_J]

8. I also have a library card

!

[Bucky]

15. What?!?! ANOTHER COMMUNIST ON DU?!??!!! I'm alerting the mods!!!!!11!!!

We have an infestation of people promoting the general welfare... which is AGAINST TEH CONSTITUTITUTION!!!!12!!

[brooklynite]

23. ...and I can join a private library if I want

See the difference?

[Doctor_J]

24. uhhhh...no

I can have a private retirement account if I want, but I don't want seniors to starve if they don't have one. I can pay for private school if I want, but I don't want people to go without if they're poor. I can buy bottled water if I want, but I don't want people to get poisoned if they they drink from their taps. What's your point?

Besides be a self-proclaimed 1%er, why are you against public roads, libraries, healthcare, social security, schools, and other essentials?

[brooklynite]

31. Socialism is the nationalization (public control) of resources....

...traditionally means of production, but arguably other services. That is the meaning of the word.

I'm fully in support of public roads, libraries, healthcare, social security, schools, and other essentials. What I'm not in support of is mislabeling things. Social goods is NOT socialism. It is social democracy. Scandinavian countries are not socialist; they are social democratic. We wouldn't be having this debate is Sanders used the right term to define what he was.

[snooper2]

13. does this count?

[hack89]

16. No. nt

[Nancyswidower]

17. I'd have said Nope but No is more appropriate.

[former9thward]

25. Its not socialism.

Social security (and medicare) were invented in the 1880s by the 19th century's foremost opponent of socialism --Otto Von Bismarck, the Iron Chancellor of Germany. It gradually spread to other European countries and Roosevelt took up the idea in the 1930s.

If you call it socialism you are just inventing your own definition of what socialism is.

[hobbit709]

28. And Bismarck's reasoning was that a healthy worker was a productive worker.

The attitude from the corporations of today is "Plenty more serfs where those came from"

[former9thward]

41. So true....

[Faux pas]

27. I guess we all are then!

[brooklynite]

32. And once again the Sanders supporters miss the point...

...if you're still going around trying to explain that socialism isn't "socialism", you've already lost the argument; just as Sanders will if he's the nominee.

[hobbit709]

33. And you missed by a mile.

It was aimed at the Republican attitude that everything to the left of Temujin is socialism.

[brooklynite]

37. And the way to challenge that argument is here?

...where you can't get consensus either?

[hobbit709]

39. I never really gave a shit about consensus.

I follow my own path, others are welcome to walk along it with me, sometimes my path coincides with another's path, but my path is mine to walk.

[madokie]

34. My card is long gone

Where too I have no idea but that doesn't mean I'm not a socialist to the core.