Regarding parents and kids...

[onion belt]

This discussion thread was locked by Skinner (a host of the General Discussion forum).

I see so much conflict of opinion on here today. I am not a parent but I live in society. I see what is happening. Some parents are raising their children to be considerate, responsible and well-mannered. Some are not. Those parents are not evil or stupid. Some may have had a harsh upbringing and are overreacting the other direction. Some are very insecure, have bad marriages and use the kids for emotional gratification. Not right but not evil.

Just admit it, though. If you are too indulgent materially and/or emotionally, don't get so freaked out that someone is calling you on it. That is all.

[AverageJoe90]

1. I have to agree with this. nt

[TheWraith]

2. And some people overreact to normal parental behavior.

And seem to be of the opinion that if they ever see or interact with someone else's children, it's a horrible burden on them.

Frankly I am NOT a fan of kids everywhere at all times, but losing your shit over it and acting like other people are bad parents because they don't keep their kids in a big steel cage in their house is not reasonable. Not talking about you, just about some of the attitudes expressed here on DU.

[onion belt]

3. Here is my problem:

I don't eat out very much or travel at all. I have small pleasures in life and it ticks me off when parents seem indifferent to the caterwauling of their children. You are right--I don't know the whole story. But it just seems unfair that I have to deal with the indulgences, which I believe lead to the "bratty" behavior.

Example: asking young children permission for leaving a coffeehouse. "Caylee, we're going to leave right now, okay?" If you ask if it's okay, Caylee will think she has the power to control the situation. Caylee doesn't WANT the power at a very young age. She wants parents to be parents and make statements. "Okay Caylee, we're leaving in ten minutes." (Letting her know in advance.)

[HappyMe]

7. Entirely the parent's fault.

You don't ask the kid when to leave. You TELL the kid we are leaving.
And you can bet your bottom dollar that little Fluffy does want that power. Kids aren't stupid. Give one inch, one mile is taken. Pretty soon the kid is in charge, not the parent.

[onion belt]

13. And actually, I was trying to convey

that young children NEED boundaries. They crave them. Parents shouldn't act like dictators, of course. But being appropriately assertive is necessary, not voluntary. Young children feel safe when they are raised by parents, not unsure big people. As they get older, they get more autonomy. But it's gradual and age-appropriate.

[HappyMe]

15. I agree with that.

Namby-pamby has no place in child rearing.

[LiberalAndProud]

26. "Okay?" probably means "Do you understand?" in the parent's mind.

I agree that parents need to hone their communication skills. You'll likely get a "No," in either case. Funny thing is, the kid always ends up leaving either way.

[HappyMe]

4. Agreed.

People tend to forget that they were little kids at one time too.

[onion belt]

5. Little kids weren't always this high-strung

I swear, some of these kids SHRIEK and it's shatters the nerves. The parents walk around with blinders on. I can't imagine ever becoming that immune to sound but there you go.

[HappyMe]

8. Shrieking isn't the half of it. I don't know about high strung.

Spoiled might be the better word.

[onion belt]

11. Ah...some of it may be autism spectrum behavior, too

I used to see kids shrieking like banshees and thought the parents were spoiling them but it was probably autism because it wasn't standard hissy fit stuff. It was a Stage Five Grand Mal hissy...

[HappyMe]

17. Not every screaming kid is autistic.

If that was so, then almost every damn kid I saw out at the shops earlier is autistic.

[onion belt]

20. Correct. I am talking about particular instances before I knew what the hell goes on with autism

and I thought the kids were Satan's spawn! No spoiled kid would act like that on purpose. And not all autistic kids are that fargone, either. But those who are get freaked out by bright lights, too much sound and other sensory stimulation.

[spanone]

12. silly post....have kids then come back and comment

[onion belt]

14. LOL- always have to have one of these types of remarks!

(I don't have to be a carpenter to know when a chair is lopsided... )

[SheilaT]

6. Keep in mind that people have been

complaining about children and how some parents raise them forever. There's never been a time when some parents didn't do a terrible job of raising their kids, and others do quite well.

[onion belt]

9. There is something different now, I am sorry to say

The way parents shower their kids with THINGS. Allowing them to have cellphones! (You may think that is standard procedure these days but unless they are cheapo Net 10 jobs, they can sext others. My partner overheard some girls--maybe as young as junior high--talking about seeing some guy's dick and he suspects they were sexting). Internet (allowing kids access to porn?!), too many special events...They get jaded and bored early. No wonder the White kids from the outer 'burbs come here to score heroin

[etherealtruth]

10. That was my first thought ... same as it ever was

Some people are annoying (or obnoxious, narcissistic ... ). Children are people ... therefore ...

[frazzled]

16. Never criticize other people's parenting

Unless it's a case of child abuse: in which case, you should report it to authorities. Otherwise, what people do with their children is their own business and not yours. Everyone has different values, and yours are not necessarily more right than theirs. I've known parents who I thought were doing things all wrong, whose kids turned out to be wonderful people. I've known parents I considered stellar, absolute paragons of virtue and wisdom, who ended up having big difficulties with their kids as they grew up. Don't judge, lest you be judged too. It's not up to you to say whether someone is being "emotionally indulgent." What the fuck is that, anyway?

I've been hearing these complaints about "bad parenting" for 40 years at least. Everyone thinks they know how other people should raise their children. It's frankly none of your business, whether you have children yourself or not.

And just remember, you were once a child, too. And you had parents.

[onion belt]

18. It's none of my business until it BECOMES my business!

I am not implying that these precious dears will grow up to become anything horrific but ask employers about Generation Why and see what they say: "needs constant strokes," "doesn't think the rules apply to them," "wants instant gratification."

When your child ruins MY meal, then it's ON! (And on for Mummy and Dada, NOT the poor kid being spoiled, by the way!)

[HappyMe]

22. Exactly.

I don't care about the parents or the damn kid, or how it is raised. Until THEY make it my business.

I don't want to hear the little darling's screams for desert RIGHT NOW as soon as they are seated in the restaurant. I don't want to get hit in the arm with the darlings spoon. I don't want the little darling to come up to our table just as we are toasting the holiday and have the dear one stand there staring. Mr. and Mrs. Darling DID NOT DO A DAMN THING. My sweetie asked if the kid shouldn't go back to mommy and daddy. Darling yelled NO! This was a nice French restaurant. We asked the head waiter to be moved. We sat in the piano bistro annex. Then we began our lovely evening.

[frazzled]

25. Maybe you ruined THEIR meal ...

with your overly sensitive, antagonistic, anti-child glares.

When you say things like "these precious dears" in that snide tone, as if these human beings are crawling like ants all over the place, out to ruin your time and annoy you, you betray a very hateful general attitude. I eat out all the time, and have been for 60 years. I have NEVER been annoyed by children like this ... even at McDonalds, much less a fine-dining adult restaurant. Perhaps it's because I don't hate children in general.

It sounds to me like you didn't get enough gratification as a child (how do you like MY pop psychology!), which explains your antipathy.

I don't think people understand how these anti-child diatribes sound just like the "welfare queens" arguments of racists or the "special rights" arguments of homophobes.

Your post is as offensive to me as I'm sure mine is to you.

[ProSense]

19. Gave up on defending Ron Paul? n/t

[etherealtruth]

21. Most children are "good" (or good enough)

Most parents do a "good" (or good enough job); most children grow up to be productive civilized adults. The world / the country isn't over-run with little miscreants.

Under most circumstances most people do a good job of interacting well with each other (and actually liking each other).

Some folk are more easily annoyed than others.

[Taitertots]

23. I just don't understand why the good parents rush to defend the obviously unfit parents

It is just a fact of life that some people are stupid, emotionally unstable, chose partners poorly, make poor financial choices, and have children. We need to make sure that these people are raising their children correctly. For the good of the children and for the betterment of society.

I don't understand how any parent would not take offense when witnessing bad parenting.

[etherealtruth]

24. Hmmm the OP is no longer with us

[Broderick]

28. revoked

[quaker bill]

27. Kids are quite variable

no single approach works, and in some cases few if any approaches will work, in other cases almost any (non-abusive) approach will work just fine.

It is not always appropriate to judge the parents on their offspring.

My son was a consistent challenge until he grew up. I have never had to discipline my daughter in even the slightest manner, I never even had to ask her to do her homework.... She just did it.

Both turned out quite well.

[Skinner]

29. This is a troll who has been banned. (nt)