It took vandals one day to deface SF's new $3.5 million parks

[Liberal_in_LA]

Vandals deface city's renovated parks, playgrounds


more pictures of the damage at the link below

It took more than six years from the time neighbors began lobbying for their worn-out playground in San Francisco's Dolores Park to be replaced to the grand opening celebration two months ago that drew hundreds of kids eager to scale the new climbing structures, glide down the new slides and bounce on the colorful rubbery ground.

It took vandals just one day to mark the new playground with graffiti, and only a few weeks more for instruments in the whimsical music garden there to be damaged, most notably with the removal of six of the 14 metal keys from the popular xylophone.

"It burns me up," said Tim Wirth, who serves on the steering committee of the Friends of Dolores Park Playground and whose children helped design the $3.5 million overhaul. "So much effort went into getting the playground built, so many kids are using it now, and then it gets vandalized."

Doug Woo shares that frustration. As president of Friends of Duboce Park, he and his neighbors have worked with the city on park improvements - creating a dog-play area, the nifty Scott Street walking labyrinth and most recently a new children's playground that opened May 19 and was covered with graffiti on May 20.

"It shows a total disregard and disrespect for all the hard work that's gone into improving the park," Woo said. "It's a real slap in the face."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/03/MNU41ORKTT.DTL#ixzz1wqWyq9jH

[YellowRubberDuckie]

1. It is sad, but I think it is ridiculous that they are surprised.

People are bastard coated bastards with bastard filling. They will always screw up stuff for other people because they have no respect for anything. They've never been taught to respect anything.

[RT Atlanta]

2. Best wishes to the folks in addressing & repairing the damage

That's great the folks were able to transform their park; extremely frustrating that vandals want to ruin the fun. Hopefully, with some extra vigilance, the vandals will be caught and "brought to justice."

[Kolesar]

3. The meaning of Dolores is "sorrows"

This happened to the park in my neighborhood after some trash moved into the cheap houses in the neighborhood. One of them vandalized the circuit breaker box and used the wires to electrify the door handle. I think that vandal is dead now.

[Tumbulu]

4. This makes me so sad

.....don't know how to solve the problem, but it is so sad.

[JoethePleb]

5. Maybe they should issue concealed paint gun licenses

That will teach'em.

[snooper2]

6. Maybe folks some spend less time discussing how to ban happy meals and pet stores

and spend some night shifts watching the place..

You know, something constructive

[tabatha]

10. Instead of spending thousands of dollars each year on clean up.

Maybe those dollars could be spent (after the last clean-up) on well-hidden cameras to tape the offenders.

[jberryhill]

17. Until you hear from the "surveillance cameras are EEEEVILLLL" bunch here

[lunatica]

32. Much better would be very good lighting and exposed cameras in plain view

They have cameras in plain view at intersections and there are cameras all over buildings pretty much covering every important street in New York City. All, or most of them in plain sight. I'm willing to bet the presence of good lighting and cameras would deter 99% of the vandals.

It would also cut down on crime considerably. There's a world of difference when cameras are used in public places from when they're used to spy on people.

[Skip Intro]

95. Cameras were the fist thing that popped into my mind too...

Well, the first thing was a desire to catch the perps. And cameras would do that.

I'd be for some jail time along with the perps being forced to clean what can be cleaned, and paying restitution for what needs to be replaced.

[ellisonz]

7. I work in parks and recreation...

...anything left exposed to vandalism will be vandalized. It is probably cheaper to hire employees and install technology to prevent vandalism than repeatedly repair/replace in the aftermath.

The slap in the face will always come, some people just can't help themselves from attacking the public good.

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. I worked at a downtown institution that is open to the public. Toilets purposely clogged

by shoving handfuls of paper towels into them. Mirrors scratched up, graffiti. etc.

For no apparent reason.

[ellisonz]

18. Yeah I mean if it's not thoroughly locked up or bolted to the ground...

It will be vandalized/stolen in due time. The bathrooms always get it the worst for they offer concealment and notoriety.

I'm always kinda like, a bathroom really? That's dirty. How is that not little punk status?

There are just people who take joy in such things.

You don't really realize how puzzling many people are until you work with the general public in such capacities.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

21. I hate it when you can't find a working pay phone for miles in parts of the city

If you don't want a cell phone and if you have the misfortune to have an emergency, you're out of luck as public phones seem to be constantly vandalized to the point where the city just doesn't bother repairing them any more.

[Chan790]

79. It's not a matter of repair...

most states have outlawed on-the-street pay-telephones as they are frequently used to facilitate the drug-trade. If you want to find one in DC, it'll either be inside a staffed public building like the courthouse or inside the Metro. That way, if the phone is used to commit a felony, they have a time-record and can match it with video-footage.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

96. I spent over an hour trying to find a working phone last week

until I finally found one. I live in southern California. I tried at least half a dozen and either the phone receiver was broken, the line was cut, or part of the mechanism didn't work. And the area around the phone was filthy with graffiti or trash or feces. And its been this way for years and years in some parts of the city. What a contrast with Europe when I lived there and you could find working pay phones that accept phone cards everywhere.

[TalkingDog]

8. Super simple solution: Let the "vandals" paint the entire skate park

There are a number of people who let artists (street artists and fine artists) paint on their buildings.

5 points in Brookly : http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathangotphoto/2468886913/

Museum of Contemporary Art Los Angeles: http://www.moca.org/audio/blog/?p=1979

There's nothing wrong with graffiti. I would think keeping gang signs to a minimum would be the main problem.

[librechik]

13. +100! n/t

[DeSwiss]

14. ....

[Bennyboy]

16. Yep.

If thet leave it alone it will turn onto something pretty awesome. BUT< if they try to undo it, it will only get painted on again.

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. I lived in NY in the early 80's and they did this with the subway cars. There were some really

cool subway cars, then the tight asses put an end to it and it went back to ugly gang stuff.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Let me assure you that it was always illegal to paint subway cars in NYC

The very cool shit that went on those cars in the late 70's and early 80's was due to pure daring of the people "vandalizing" the cars, and had nothing to do with even a softening of anti-graffiti laws or enforcement. The fact that cars were no longer allowed to run at all with any graffiti on them was mainly a result of technological change (easy cleaning of the new lines) and economic rejuvenation (more available cars) than any tightening of the prohibition. Graffiti - and especially graffiti on trains - was always stone-cold illegal in New York City.

[Egalitarian Thug]

34. I'm sure it was all in my imagination...

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. You surely imagined the legality

Many great graffiti writers did much great work, but they were never allowed to spray even one dot of spraypaint on any car in the entire MTA fleet.

To think otherwise is pure fantasy, yours. There was never any "legal" painting of NYC subway cars by graffiti writers, and that is a fact.

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

[FarLeftFist]

76. Have you never seen Warriors?!

Btw, it was and always was illegal to paint subway cars. But they did look much cooler back then.

[Egalitarian Thug]

163. You're right, apparently it was an informal arrangement(?) and the best artists got together and

took advantage of the lack of security. The way the local news talked about it, I thought it was a legal change. In any case, the work overall was really quite good and raised the standard. C'est la vie.

Of course I was and remain in the minority since I liked the old dirty, dangerous NYC, it had character and a unique energy, now it's a big, expensive mall. Today's shit reminds me of an attraction at Disneyland or a hotel, mall, and casino here in Vegas.

[Luminous Animal]

31. The harsher the clampdown the uglier the graffiti...

It takes time to create something beautiful. Without the luxury of time, it's mostly hit & run tagging.

Barcelona pretty much gives free reign to artists on it's roll down shop doors and much of the graffiti is remarkable.

[Egalitarian Thug]

40. This what the authoritarians never get. The more you escalate, the less you accomplish.

People are going to do what they are going to do and the more you try to stop them the more they do. Is it because they themselves are so happy to submit to the will of others?

None of this has ever worked, but they seem sure that it doesn't work because they just haven't taken it far enough.

[jpbollma]

49. It's authoritarian to have the rule of law and not allow defacing of others property?

Hope this happens to your house so you can appreciate the art up close! After all, you wouldn't wanna call the cops, that would be authoritarian!

[Egalitarian Thug]

53. I think you miss the point. The methods of restriction, enforcement, & penalties we use don't work.

They never have. Organized crime exists as a direct result of this ass-backward thinking and methodology.

And your wishing for bad things to happen to me (assuming that they haven't) clearly demonstrates the fault in your perspective. How would someone tagging my house make your life better?

[jpbollma]

60. I don't believe I missed the point.

Perhaps we just disagree. I didn't literally mean I would want that to happen to you.. I was making a comparison..and if you admit you think it would be bad on your own home, why do you think others would want to look at that crap?

[Egalitarian Thug]

66. Yeah, you did. First, I have lived in graffiti covered buildings and never did it effect

my place inside which remains graffiti free to this day.

Second, no one is defending vandalism (the xylophone for example), but this is a skate park and graffiti is a very large part of the whole skate-or-die culture (see the ads and logos for Van's, No Fear, etc.) and as such it might have been a good idea to predict this inevitability and accommodate it by encouraging the skaters to do it well.

And third is the larger point that we continue to refuse to look at the motivations for destructive behavior and deal with that, instead we resort to the only answer we ever bring to every problem, the afore mentioned authoritarian methods which don't work.

If something doesn't work over and over and over, perhaps something else should be tried.

[Chan790]

83. When I lived in NYC, we PAID someone to do that to the side of our building.

It was beautiful.

Edit: We: tenants. The fascists from the management company hated it; we hated them. It was all good.

[Luminous Animal]

69. No way in hell I'd call the cops. A mere $400 in "damage" could get a kid

a felony conviction and severely curtail that kid's opportunity to secure student grants and loans and get a job with or without a college education.

[jpbollma]

70. I guess I just don't get it.

Maybe I am wrong. I just think it's wrong to destroy the property of others or the public. I think it can actually do a lot of harm. People from the suburbs who come into a city to shop and do business get scared by this stuff, its usually a sign of anarchy or crime. I just cannot see how it's a good thing. In the grand scheme of things this is a minor issue though..I just don't get it.

[girl gone mad]

73. "People from the suburbs who come into a city to shop and do business get scared by this stuff"

Really? In 2012?

Some of the graffiti was actually kind of nice, like the stenciled koi.

[jpbollma]

81. Girl Gone Mad

yes, in 2012. The year has nothing to do with signs of crime. Crime is crime, doesn't matter if it's 1930 or 2012. The Koi are very pretty, I agree. My point is, it wasn't that person's property to do with as they pleased.

[XemaSab]

156. I grew up in Oakland

and I'm with you.

Defacing public property is a crime.

[jpbollma]

39. TalkingDog..there is plenty wrong with graffiti

for starters...it's not their fucking property. Maybe I can come make "art" on the front of your house or workplace and see how you would like it?

[Scootaloo]

51. Actually... it IS their property

That's what "PUBLIC PROPERTY" means.

I know that we've been living under thirty-two years of a neoliberal sociopathic social model where "public property" is just a nice way of saying "Yeah, Scott paper owns this whole place but they let us come here" or something. But for a moment, pretend that it means what it says - public property. Property of the public. Someone in the public thinks it'd be a great place to put a mural, then why not? Especially when you remember it's a skate park and not fucking City Hall; clinical bare concrete is more damaging to the aesthetic than any amount of krylon.

[Marr]

52. Well it's also ugly as shit.

I'm not going to pretend it's beautiful. It' isn't. It's garbage.

[Scootaloo]

57. So is bare concrete

Ugly-as-shit grafitti is at least thematic to a skate park, is what I'm saying. Just like ugly-as-shit canvas is thematic to a Dadaist exhibition.

[Marr]

58. It's a little more like 'shit is thematic to a parade'.

Lots of a people enjoy the parade, but the only one who enjoys the shit is the animal who dropped it.

[Scootaloo]

64. So cork the horses?

I'm thinking this is the expectation some posters here have:

[Marr]

72. Generally there's a man cleaning it up at the end of the parade.

Just as we all get to pay people to scrub this other brand of shit away. The video camera idea sounds pretty good to me, as does community service cleaning up graffiti.

[Scootaloo]

80. Bare grey molded concrete sounds so appealing

is Soviet chic making a comeback?

[Marr]

82. Do you have any graffiti on your house?

[Chan790]

88. Yup!

I sure do!!

[Scootaloo]

160. Is my house a skate park designated public property?

The economy might suck, but fortunately it hasn't hit me that hard.

Come back when you have an argument that makes a lick of sense.

[jpbollma]

59. I must be missing something in this discussion

Public property means the public VOTES on what happens with it..not total anarchy. What if I decide I want to burn it down? By your logic it's partially mine since its public property..

[Scootaloo]

62. Hmmm, good question!

What if you decide to burn it down?

People laugh at you because you're a moron trying to set fire to a park made of six inches of concrete and steel reinforcement, probably.

[jpbollma]

71. I think I was being too general in my attack on graffiti

You are correct, obviously. No one can burn down a skate park. I was directing my comments at the larger problem in general. It's not only skate parks that this happens. People do this to homes and businesses as well. It gets so bad ( in my experiences) that people in the area just give up and go into a depression of sorts and the neighborhood just goes downhill. The disrespect for property continues to increase until areas that were once considered nice become what people call blight. In my opinion, it's just not fair to all of the people that don't like this stuff. If people want a graffiti park, fine. But why don't they pool money together and purchase a building they can do whatever they would like with? Why do others have to have this stuff on areas that they either paid for through taxes or places that are personal property? I only get worked up about this because I've seen it as part of urban decay in my own city.

[Scootaloo]

77. The people with the krylon paid for it too, though

Again, this is what public property is.

I'll grant, it's not a 100% thing. "Public property" certainly doesn't mean "go crazy," and certain chunks of public property should certainly be left alone. However, flipping your lid because of spray paint in a skate park - comparing it to arson, even - is a bit much. It really causes no physical harm either to the property or to the people using it. You think it's ugly? Paint something better over it.

It's not city hall. It's not a monument. It's not a landmark. It's a skate park, and it's a a heap of molded concrete forms. If the people who are using the skate park - which really, I assume doesn't include you or most posters here - want to use that concrete as a canvas, then by all means. It was built for them, let 'em use it to their tastes.

[jpbollma]

84. But picking what public area is off limits is subjective

Maybe some people think an art gallery or city hall need some graffiti for one reason or another? Where does it stop? If things are paid for by the city, the residents of that city should be able to decide who gets to spray paint or do other forms of art on it or within it.

[Chan790]

90. Tagging an art gallery is an inherently-politic act...

regardless of content.

Just saying. If someone tags the side of the gallery showing Damian Hirst and other contemp. artists, we can assume one of two things:

1.) It's an homage to the taste of the work of Hirst, et. al. as well as that of the gallery owner.
2.) It's a critique. Typically a negative one.

I think both are inherently valid regardless of ownership.

If you don't want commentary on the walls of your gallery, you're in the wrong business.

[Scootaloo]

159. Please, pay attention here

It. Is. A. Skate. Park.

Do I need to do some all caps? Bold it? Embed a youtube of me saying it really loud?!

Look, apply some common fucking sense, will you? It's a skate park. Spraypainting the place where you skateboard has been part of the whole "thing" since the fucking 70's. This is not the precipice of a slippery slope here, this is just what you should EXPECT in a park, made of bare concrete, that you provide for an activity subculture where graffiti and tagging has been a prominent practice for thirty years.

Just accept it and move on. It is not as if they are putting scrawl on Mt. Rushmore, is it?

[XemaSab]

155. In the article it said that people have burned down structures

and have destroyed trees.

Does that fall under self expression for you?

[Logical]

87. LOL....brilliant logic. Maybe I can spray paint Air Force One since I own it!

[dont hassle the hoff]

165. Exhibit A

The reason I call myself a progressive and not a liberal. What utter bullshit.

It's not just skate parks which contain graffiti and you damn well know it. These low-lifes destroy EVERYTHING--private property, stores, and make it look like a slum. I lived in a humble suburb with clean (if modest) lawns and houses and when there was a shift in demographics, all of a sudden we'd see spray paint on the side of apartments, garages, and stores. It was ominous-looking, too. I didn't grow up with graffiti and had no idea what exactly it meant. But in any case, trying to remove it wasn't easy and it permanently damaged the facades of some buildings.

[Scootaloo]

175. Do try to keep up

Given that you state "I'm a progressive and not a liberal," you're not starting out with flying colors intellectually as it is. You cannot tell the difference between someone's business, and a skate park?

Seriously, you can't? The idea between "private property" and "public property" doesn't register? How about the idea of some behaviors and practices being acceptable or unacceptable, depending on location and time?

I'm not arguing that graffiti is the sole province of skate parks. I would add "and you damn well know it," but frankly I just don't feel right assuming you know a damn thing, period. I'm arguing that in terms of location, context, and ownership, I have no issue with graffiti in a public skate park.

That you and others keep trying to make this about someone's house - it's not, it's a skate park - tells me that you've got nothing to make an actual rebuttal with. Your outrage is feigned and expressed solely to be hip. Par for the course with "progressives who aren't liberal."

[Chan790]

85. If you were any good, I might pay you for it even. n/t

[jpbollma]

92. Chan790 Until you come up with the money

AND the public approves it..that's really not your call.

[Chan790]

97. I'm a iconoclast...I do things precisely because they will be met with public disapproval.

As for money...I have more than I need or want. I'm one of those kids who camped in the park and held a sign saying I should be taxed more.

[jpbollma]

106. so...

you are a criminal with a lot of money? That's still a criminal.

[Chan790]

113. Sure, you can look at it that way.

I prefer to think that I'm "awesome".

[Heywood J]

150. Back in the day, we used to call that kind of thing "anti-social".

It's not "awesome", cool, or edgy to unilaterally decide how a public space will be used without consideration of the larger public, whether you're a New York cop who decides those people have no right to be in a park or a punk who decides to be a "big man" by burning down a children's playground, stealing the xylophone, or sprinkling broken beer bottles around the slides under cover of darkness. That could be your kid or someone in your family who doesn't get to make use of a park or common area because of people who think they're "awesome", and it's our taxes that pay to put the park back together.

If you feel like you want to put up real art and not some lazy tag, then go to your next community or neighborhood council meeting and bring up the idea. Pitch a few themes, suggestions and locations to the rest of the public before you slap down your next manifesto. Bring in your ideas for something that would look really good, provoke a positive spirit, and discourage others from tagging on top of it. Oh, wait - that would involve really thinking outside the box and challenging the status quo of doing nothing or being mindlessly destructive, something a self-described "iconoclast" should know all about.

[wickerwoman]

176. This exactly. Thank you.

The council will have undertaken public consultation while the plans for the park were being formulated. If people wanted to create street art they should have participated in the consultation and allowed the whole community to decide what they wanted in the park.

Instead, they waited until everything was completed and then shit on it. That's not being edgy or iconoclastic. That's being a dick. To kids.

[closeupready]

48. Here's the thing: in isolation, some of these are lovely, but

when dropped in the middle of a residential area, they are jarring, rude and out of place.

I like the images, just like many others here, but I do not agree that when they are painted willy-nilly in the open as they are on the 5 points building (in Queens, not Brooklyn), that this is a plus for the surrounding community. It just really looks awful.

Your photo of the building is lacking in context - specifically, the increasingly upscale developments in Long Island City. This building won't last long like that, IMO.

[HiPointDem]

50. yep. the artists are the shock troops of the gentrifiers.

[proud patriot]

126. as long as they use art ... and not name tags.. I say go for it

[dont hassle the hoff]

166. Good. Tell me your address.

Because they do it on the sides of houses and garages. I am sure you'll be pleased as punch.

[proud patriot]

179. aren't you sweet

hugs and kisses

[mainer]

164. Grafitti is one thing, but purposefully BREAKING public facilities is something else.

Grafitti could (maybe) be considered art.

Purposeful breaking of a public xylophone so that no one else can use it is a criminal offense. Too bad there no longer seems to be any sense of public shame.

[msongs]

9. most likely the "vandals" are known in the neighborhood. nt

[4th law of robotics]

11. Whenever they catch people who do this they ought to A) have to fix whatever they damaged

and B) be put on a list for the next few years and if any other kind of vandalism occurs where they don't catch the perp you get to spend your weekends cleaning up their mess too.

I really hate people who do this kind of thing. Stealing for personal gain I can understand, don't condone but it makes sense. Destroying stuff for no personal benefit just so other people can't enjoy it though is pretty low.

[jpbollma]

36. Absolutely. People have no respect.

it's pretty disgusting.

[Chan790]

91. Actually the only thing I find disgusting...

is the opinions of repressive nincompoops on an anti-art tirade.

[Luminous Animal]

116. Silly. Art is for galleries & museums and worthless unless curated.

Everything else is the product of scum and animals.

[Occulus]

157. Art includes a hell of a lot more than painting and sculpture

and you just insulted and degraded every musician and dancer here, among others whose art, by its nature, cannot be curated.

[Luminous Animal]

158. Yes. I realize that art is more than painting & sculpture. Thanks for trying, though.

For what it is worth, it was a sarcastic quip. I was not serious and have spent much of this thread defending graffiti artists.

And, indeed their are "curators" for dance and music. What do you think Clear Channel is? Or the San Francisco Ballet?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

169. forgive me

for failing to appreciate the majesty of the three foot tall stencil of Pee-Wee Herman with devil horns someone inflicted on my fence and took four coats of paint to cover.

[Odin2005]

15. Sadly, there are plenty of "progressives" that support these vandal "artists".

One's right to personal expression ends at using another person's stuff (or in this case, the community's "stuff&quot without permission.

[ellisonz]

19. OBEY

[Chan790]

94. +1

It's a brilliant self-contained commentary. The people it pisses off are those outing themselves as totalitarians who kowtow to an increasingly corrupt state.

[Heywood J]

151. Yep- "most notably with the removal of six of the 14 metal keys from the popular xylophone."

You've got a fine eye for "art" there. You just keep fighting the man by supporting the awesome revolutionary act of stealing xylophone keys from a children's playground. After all, that's a victimless crime there - no underprivileged kids use those playgrounds.

"I've seen it all," he said of the sabotage and defacement: restrooms set afire, tennis nets cut, urinals and sinks bashed with baseball bats, toilets and water fountains intentionally clogged with sand and rubbish, roofs torn apart and their shingles tossed like Frisbees, park benches yanked from their anchors, lights smashed.

That's some "brilliant self-contained commentary", unless you're a poor kid who doesn't have the latest thing in their private backyard.

[Bennyboy]

20. Things don't have to be ugly.

But they are.

I love street art and when allowed to flourish it turns into incredible works.

I think they should have hired street artists to paint the skate park from the get go.

[jpbollma]

24. I reject the idea that we just let these human scum have the run of our cities.

If we wanted "street art" (graffiti crap) tax payers would ask for it. We shouldn't have to just roll over and let this happen. If these people can't afford their own property to ruin and spray paint they shouldn't be doing it to the public property. I really think there should be absolute zero tolerance for these people. They should have to spend years of their spare time ( and most of them are losers and have plenty) scrubbing and cleaning our cities. They have done this same shit in Detroit and it is infuriating.

[Luminous Animal]

33. No need to hire people. Just give them the freedom to create and they will do so organically.

The clamp down results in swiftly executed (and usually ugly) hit & run tagging.

[Marr]

54. The "freedom to create" costs about 99 cents.

They even put it on nice little sheets-- you can have a blank slate anytime you like.

Graffiti isn't about art, it's about vandalizing other peoples' property and smearing your name all over town.

[girl gone mad]

78. Tell that to Banksy, Shepard Fairey, David Choe, etc.

The art world disagrees.

[Marr]

131. Well, the art world doesn't own the buildings, so

I'm not particularly interested in what the art world has to say. Besides, Shepard Fairey and Banksy are-- or were-- both commercial designers who could actually do more than smear their name on someone's house.

I'm not particularly tweaked about this skate park, just to be clear. I understand graffiti and street art are part of the that scene, and I was even in it when I was in art school.

I *do* have a problem with graffiti-- tagging and just smearing your name on other peoples' houses and buildings who don't want it there. It makes a neighborhood look like shit. Sure, it'd be more hep to just say, 'hey people are marking their neighborhood, making it theirs, blah blah blah', but you know what? It's just a shitty thing to do. The people that get this crap on their buildings and houses don't like it and for the most part, don't have the money to deal with it.

[Luminous Animal]

101. Advertising is about smearing your name all over town. Graffiti can be and often is

an artistic expression and rarely signed.

[Marr]

133. Graffiti *can be*, but it very rarely is.

It's almost always just an asshole spraying his name on a wall, and crossing out the names of other assholes.

[Luminous Animal]

140. When you criminalize artists, the taggers take over.

That is why it is rare to see good graffiti anymore. The risks of arrest are too high to take the time to create.

[Odin2005]

143. I have no problem with street art as long as they get permission, or...

It's an abandoned building whose "owner" is some bank

[Luminous Animal]

30. Graffiti San Francisco:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cassidy/sets/58512/

Graffiti Barcelona:
http://www.barcelonastreetart.net/graffiti/graffiti.htm

[Egalitarian Thug]

56. And what do you propose as a solution? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

23. FYI, the graffiti in the picture is in a skate park built in 2008. NOT Dolores Park.

A skate park where, you know, you would expect a fair amount of tagging.

Here are pictures of the graffiti in Dolores Park:

http://www.missionmission.org/2012/04/16/dolores-park-aquarium-terrarium/

[Erose999]

25. Don't piss off a graffitti artist....

hahahaha

[jpbollma]

26. Ridiculous. If the owner of that building or the city wanted that art they would ask for art

that person or people had no right to ruin someone else's property.

[frylock]

65. it has art on it..

did you miss the after picture?

[Luminous Animal]

141. This comment cracks me up everytime I scroll by it!

[Bennyboy]

41. Too awesome.

Fuck em.

[Luminous Animal]

47. Hahahaha!!!

[AngryAmish]

27. This is why we can't have nice things.

Jerks.

[jpbollma]

29. Exactly. This type of thing is what has killed many of our urban cores.

People just think they can run around doing whatever they want. People need to learn about respect for others as well as property that does not belong to them. It's very frustrating when you spend all of your time trying to make something nice for all of the people and a few scum bags decide they have some "right" to ruin it.

[alarimer]

75. Animals

That's all they are.

[Luminous Animal]

102. Industry abandoning our cities and our country is what has killed our urban cores.

[jpbollma]

118. Yes, that is the single biggest thing that killed our urban cores

but it is not the only thing. We can still take a little personal responsibility.

[Luminous Animal]

46. This'll look nice when it's framed...

[crunch60]

55. This looks like a Bansky, I like it

[FarCenter]

37. A slum is defined by its residents; not its architecture

[jpbollma]

44. yes, and its residents also destroy all of the local architecture.

Imagine if these people picked up trash on the streets, repainted old buildings, and volunteered int heir neighborhoods. It would result in a much better neighborhood rather than contributing to it's decline.

[closeupready]

42. Hey, it's ART!

[badtoworse]

45. This wouldn't have been a problem if we followed Singapore's lead.

Ask Michael Fay.

[Bennyboy]

61. Now here's some street art....Poland....

[Bennyboy]

63. BANKSY welcomes the Queen on her 75th.....

[Bennyboy]

67. More Banksy

http://www.boredpanda.com/80-beautiful-street-crimes-done-by-banksy/




Banksy in Palestine:

[Bennyboy]

68. My favorite BANKSY work....

[jpbollma]

74. These are all great

But the point I would make is it shouldn't be on the sides of other people's property. If this was all nazi art that someone sprayed everywhere would you still think we should keep it up? Or gang signs? It's a slippery slope. Put it on a canvas and enter it into many of the PUBLIC art exhibits...it would win more praise that way!

[librechik]

86. THEIR park too (this post won't be popular, but WTH)

Grafitti has always been an enormous part of skateboarding. It's who they are. They had to make it theirs.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing, but I see why they did it. And in that context, at the skateboard park, I'm surprised everybody wasn't expecting it--and allowing for it, perhaps with local artists to help.

Besides, how many of the old folks complaining about grafitti use the skateboard park for its named purpose?

[Logical]

89. Lame Post! So I should be able to spray paint any Bridge in town also?

[librechik]

100. A bridge is not a skateboard park.

There is some nuance here, sorry you don't get it. And have to name call.

[EFerrari]

103. It's the Return of the Repressed.

Instead of whining, these people should have put in walls where people could write and paint.

[librechik]

105. +1 n/t

[Luminous Animal]

108. Check out this near the skatepark (I'm not sure if it is still there...)

[EFerrari]

112. But, was it authorized?!

I'd weep for this country but it's a complete waste of fucking time.

[jpbollma]

120. why should I pay money for someone to have a canvass?

We have bigger issues to worry about.

[EFerrari]

121. Why should I pay money for you to have your road paved?

There are bigger issues to worry about.

[jpbollma]

128. Actually paved roads are something society as a whole needs

nice strawman though.

[Luminous Animal]

132. People need art and self-expression that isn't assessed and compressed

by gatekeepers.

[EFerrari]

146. Whereas, society doesn't need the energies of young people to be directed

positively?

No sale.

[hunter]

168. Paved roads for private automobiles was a stupid idea.

The sooner the automobile age ends, the better.

[Rittermeister]

178. The second it does you'll see rural poverty back like it's 1930.

Some of us live three or four miles from the nearest grocery store and fifteen miles from the nearest hospital. Sure, we'll just hitch up the horse and buggy. . .

[Iggo]

93. Can't blame that on Baby Boomers.

[SoCalDem]

98. Marking turf is, to humans, what spraying urine is to cats

These creeps are saying to the "others"..stay away from here.. we claim it

[EFerrari]

115. If you take away the space for kids to make art, they will push back.

Urine? Creeps? Really?

My son spent god knows how many hours drawing, writing and sketching at home and he wrote and painted on the wall at Albany High School designated for students' art work.

On the other hand, had that wall not been at his disposal, I have zero doubt that he would have found other surfaces to work on.

Urine? Seriously?

Sometimes this board baffles me.

[SoCalDem]

117. Some graffiti can be art, but most is spiteful defacement

The graffiti pictured was not particularly "artistic" .Teens (most are) who deface a park, and destroy/damage the equipment the are telling parents that their kids might not be safe in the park....and if the kids stay away, the park remains the property of the vandals.

[EFerrari]

119. No.

You are mixing up kids who write and paint and something else. They are not the same people and you can't fold them all up into the category "vandals" unless "vandals" means people that have been shut out of the process.

[cherokeeprogressive]

138. What "process" were they shut out of that they think it okay to deface public property?

[EFerrari]

145. You mean, besides the part where our tax dollars are no longer spent on

art, music and sports for kids? The part where our tax money no longer goes to developing kids and giving them somewhere to vent and grow but into developing private schools' admin salaries? Besides that part?

[cherokeeprogressive]

154. So there is no art without money? And without that money, I can paint whatever the hell I want on

your wall? And how many people who are the age of most "graffiti artists" are actually involved in the "process" of doling out money anyway?

Forgive me if I see it a bit differently.

[EFerrari]

162. That you don't even see these people as part of the process speaks volumes.

I'm only saying, just because the kids' needs are ignored doesn't mean they will disappear. It usually only means they will be acted out in a way you don't like.

[Luminous Animal]

129. Oh give me a break. First of all, the picture in the OP is not the kids park that was recently

renovated. It is of a skate park that opened 4-5 years ago...

Second, this is what Dolores Park and playground look like on an average day (it is one of the most popular parks in the city). Nobody is going to abandon it because of a graffiti or vandalism because if they didn't abandon it before when it was crumbling and often with glass and needles in the sand, they certainly are not going to abandon it now.

Before the renovations:


After the renovations:

[NuttyFluffers]

161. seriously. so often people speak without context.

thank you. SF isn't filled with wilting violets. a bit of unauthorized spray paint here is not going to cause flight and decay in the heart of the city. people who live in cities sorta know that there's this natural disintegration as part of the wear and tear of living so tightly together. you get it in exchange for being free from having everyone across town know and be up in your business.

the city's seen worse and has survived. it will continue to survive. the delicate sensibilities of the bridge and tunnel crowd about a local children's park xylophone and skate park is not going to mean a thing in time.

now, i think they should've used a plastic polymer for the xylophone myself, as metal thieves are all over nowadays. but that's neither here nor there.

[frylock]

125. sadly, too many people don't know the difference between tagging and graffiti..

and quite franky, graffiti likely doesn't appeal to their tender sensibilities. it's just so much easier to gaze at monet's unfocused waterlilies and cluck your tongues at the unwashed hordes.

[jpbollma]

135. Kids shouldn't have the space for art taken away

I would always vote for more school funding and the cuts to art/music in the last few decades are so sad to me. I did/still do make art pieces ( and I use that loosely because I suck) in the privacy of my home, and I think an art wall at your child's school is a great thing. If that wall had not been at his/her disposal though, I would hope you would have taught him/her that the public spends hard earned tax dollars to make nice public places. Private small businesses are usually opened by someone with a dream who takes a big risk. It's not right to deface either, and if you didn't teach your child that, then yes, it is like urine, putting your "mark" out there for everyone else with no respect for why that structure was put there to begin with. This board shouldn't baffle you, the culture of "I'm owed this" should baffle you.

[EFerrari]

144. Lmao. No, I certainly did not teach my children

that the tax money their family paid excluded them from participating in the commons. Quite the contrary.

And the culture of "we don't remember you paid for this" will always baffle me.

[cthulu2016]

147. Yes, Urine.

The bulk of the "art" is people signing their name in some stylized form.

And much of the "art" is explicitly identifying territory, as in gang names.

When you walk up to something and deface in order to say that you were there that's as close an analog to urine marking as anyone could want.

Unfortunately, it is harder to clean than urine.

[EFerrari]

148. Apparently, you haven't spent enough time looking at "urine". n/t

[jp11]

99. A real vandal would have used optical illusions to mess up the people using those ramps.

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:06 PM - Edit history (1)

This looks like just crappy tags/gang BS and of course some crappy losers breaking stuff cause they can, or maybe they didn't have any skateboards.

[Luminous Animal]

107. Yes. The skate board park is crappy tags (but not gang tags). Ever since the city

decided to use extremely harsh measures to crackdown on graffiti, the quality has declined. Graffiti artists, who used to have the luxury of time to paint some pretty incredible stuff on high visibility high trafficked areas no longer do. So that leaves these spaces to open to taggers. And creating an uglier city, in my opinion. If the city would leave that space free for graffiti, it would become an incredible evolving space of color, design, and artistry.

[EFerrari]

111. If there's no corporate logo sewn into the neckline, no one gets it. n/t

[jp11]

153. Thanks did not know that. I saw a lack of any real graffiti art and figured crappy

glory hog taggers and gangs were responsible along with generic people out to break stuff.

I could at least respect someone creating art as you describe but stupid tags are just ugly.

[Earth_First]

104. billboards vandalize the countryside on highways that cost billions...

where and with whom do i register my complaint?

advertising is just as ugly.

[Luminous Animal]

109. Uglier, in my opinion.

[Earth_First]

114. Yep.

CONSUME.

[jpbollma]

122. but they pay for it and pay taxes

these people do not. There is a difference. Talk about nuance.

[EFerrari]

124. Talk about nuance. Why do you say these people don't pay taxes?

[Earth_First]

127. Who says these 'vandals' do not pay taxes...?

I wheatpaste AND pay taxes...

:gasp:

[frylock]

152. and there it is folks..

gotta pay to play.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

123. Or certain housing developments

One of the great shocks I received several years ago was when I drove down the Pacific Coast highway to Laguna Beach, a drive I hadn't made in several years. Where there used to be natural and wild open space, with the beautiful blue Pacific Ocean on one side of the road and desert hills on the other, there was suddenly a master planned community on the other side. The entrance, right at the ocean has two ugly, grotesque faux Roman style arches on either side surrounded by green grass. And green grass near the ocean just doesn't make it in my opinion, unless maybe you're in Ireland. It looks like the entrance to a cemetery. I guess it's just me, but I can't stomach taking that drive anymore.

[Luminous Animal]

136. Its a crying shame. When I lived there many years ago, that was one of the most

beautiful stretches of road in the world.

[Marr]

137. And people hate it.

So why cheer for this crap if it's just more of the same?

I mean hell, at least a billboard might tell me where I could get a 6000 calorie super lard burger with cheese, if I were so inclined. All graffiti can tell me is that some loser named "Spider" once managed to climb onto the outside of the overpass. I don't know what to do with that information.

[greytdemocrat]

110. What scum.

I know, let's clean it up!!! They wouldn't do it again, right???

[Earth_First]

130. What do folks think about 'reverse' or 'green graffiti' or projection graffiti?

Using a mild cleaning agent or pressure washer to selectively remove city grime from walls or using high powered projectors to cast images against the urban landscape...?

[Luminous Animal]

134. A lovely reverse graffiti project in the Broadway tunnel in San Francisco

[Earth_First]

139. +1

Fantastic!

[Earth_First]

142. how is it that it is assumed that the vandals who damaged the playground are also responsible...

for the graffiti?

Lots of assumptions and profiling goin on here...

[Baitball Blogger]

149. Is this Trumad's doing?

[AsahinaKimi]

167. This is sad but not surprising ...

One only need board a BART or MUNI Bus, to see all the graffiti on the inside. MUNI even has a special number to call on your cellphone if you see someone marking up a bus..

[Shankapotomus]

170. I wonder if someone built a Graffiti

Park if they would use that instead?

[hunter]

171. It never ends. Sometimes I get tired. We've had our cars "tagged."

We live beside a major footpath to the local high school.

It's a little bit of wilderness. I keep an eye on the wildlife, encourage the oak tree seedlings along, and talk to the birds and people who pass by. I'll also paint over graffiti, even on my neighbors' walls or in Park & Rec's territory.

Half the graffiti is gang stuff. Forty percent or more is tagging, "look at me!" stuff from kids who know this society sees them as useless nuisances, petty criminals, cannon fodder, or low value disposable labor; if society acknowledges them at all. Nobody wants to be invisible. Even at my most generous level of art criticism less than ten percent of the graffiti is artistic or political statement. Or else all of it is.

Artistic graffiti is vandalized as often as anything else.

For a few years it was rumored I was a crazy Russian because I'd confront everyone with a toothy smile and piercing gaze, even the gangster kids, a few of them armed. Who knows? Maybe they pictured me out prowling nights with an AK-47 slung over my shoulder and a pair of bloody pruning shears in my hand. Once I got scolded by our police for confronting some kids who were armed. But that was the only reason I called the police, because I'd talked to them and noticed they had guns. The police picked 'em up at the end of the footpath. Fourteen year olds carrying guns don't tend to be too bright. But if I called the police every time I caught kids tagging out there, or smoking pot, etc., I'd be halfway to George Zimmerman's hell.

When my own kids and their friends reached high school my mysterious reputation faded. I became somebody's dad. Don't worry about him. He's a bit crazy, but he's cool.

The mindless vandalism is most upsetting to me. There are kids who kill birds and other animals, pull down trees, dump stolen wallets and purses, etc... That's messed up. Then there are the thoughtless trash dumpers. Used condoms (ewwwwwww, but hey, they are using them!), convenience store trash, empty dime bags (are they still called that?), cigarette butts, chewing gum... Nine times out of ten you catch a kid throwing down trash, they'll at least look guilty, and that's a start.

I like to think our neighborhood is a better place since I work at home, keep my eyes open, and talk to kids. But we're not going to solve this problem until our young adults are welcomed into the greater society with a good jobs, paid educations, and excellent entrepreneurial opportunities. Until then the energy of our young people will find other outlets.

[Liberal_in_LA]

174. I see a lot of 'mindless vandalism" in the city also. I suppose a psychologist would

say it's not mindless, that there is some thought or goal behind it.

[caesars things]

172. I don't know why people who are being given something nice

want to crap all over it...

[closeupready]

173. the other point about 5 points in LIC, the taggers tag adjacent property

and also the public property like subways.

so the photo posted upthread was a shot JUST of the building with the graffiti all over it - NOT just about any adjacent building, which ALSO has been tagged, WITHOUT CONSENT.

That is why this shit is a bad fucking idea - taggers do NOT respect boundaries, in general.