If you are surprised that Trump won Nevada

[nadinbrzezinski]

Quite honestly you are not paying attention to US politics. Yes, he is a fascist. Yes, he is dangerous, but what you are seeing is anger coalescing into one person. People are angry at the establishment. He will be the nominee.

Yup, it is that simple. And it is not simple at the same time. Read into how Mussolini gave his speeches. Even some of the themes are the same. If you are familiar, you can detect some of Hitler's bluster and Franco's ideas too.

When I went on a limb in August at the paper I run, all I had was a knowledge of history, and that includes the shock and surprise of our professional commentariat that took him as a joke.

Enjoy folks, this will be one hell of a ride. Strap in, the train left the station a while ago.

[spanone]

1. america, going off the rails...

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. This has been cooking for years

I am likely tje least surprised person about this you will ever meet.

This is a change election. the question is whether we go left or right?

[spanone]

10. it's beyond right, it's over the cliff

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yup, fascism is one of the choices.

And it makes me all but happy

[haikugal]

35. Well as you say we've been working up to this.

I've been reading about the rise of the Nazis and fascism because it all looks too familiar.

We have to get Bernie elected but that is just the start...we have s long hard battle ahead I'm afraid.

Thanks for the OP Nadin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. You welcome

Back in August we had the discussion of even going there. We decided, frack it.

This is a piece I wrote back in December that also went there.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/23/politics/nevada-caucus-republican-problems/index.html

Base revolts are fun, really

And this from July

http://reportingsandiego.com/2015/07/27/hyper-partisanship-trump-and-huckabee/

[Wellstone ruled]

103. You just knew some

Huckster would tap this crowd and exploit it to their advantage. The 1%ers could give a rats ass if this dupe gets elected,they are covered.

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Or so they think.

I think Trump is far, far, far more dangerous to everybody, including the 1 percent, than people realize.

[Wellstone ruled]

125. And this Joker travels in their Social

Circles. This sucker is dangerous as you state,just checking as to the Caucus attendees last night,and yes these folks are just clueless and cast their ballots out of stupidity or pure ignorance. What the heck,after all this is Nevada were Ignorance is so Bliss full.

[LiberalArkie]

126. I wasn't surprised, I was surprised it took this long. Occupy kick started it.

I think we shall see again "The whole world is watching" being yelled in the streets again. It feels a little like 1968 again to me. Something in the air.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. I have had the debate whether it was OWS or the student revolt in 2009

but something did

[LiberalArkie]

134. I think it was OWS, it hit the news enough for people to start to realize how screwed over

the regular people were and face it the term 1%. I don't remember every personally hearing it put like that. Then know one thought about the size of the college loans. OWS brought everything that was happening right out in the open. Just like "The whole world is watching" in 1968.

Remember at the start of OWS, no one in power said a single thing in defense, in fact I think they ignored it totally. We had to go to the web to even see it. And now all the tech that came out in OWS is now available everywhere.

This summer will get interesting.

Do we need to start designing up posters to carry? I am 68 and ready to get bloody.

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. I expect the summer to be really intersting locally

cameras (check)
Helmet (check)
gas masks ( check)
PRess Pass (check)
Notepad....

Yup. ready to document. In fact, have started exercising again. I need to get in shape for both fire and protest season. This year they are clashing.

[LiberalArkie]

140. It just feels like it...

Get you a Gopro for the helmet.. That may the the thing this year. I think it can be hooked to the cell phone for live streaming..

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. We are actually considering a Go Pro

among other reasons, for fire season...

Of course, that includes a backpack. So many extra batteries, SD cards...

[LiberalArkie]

143. I would image it would get heavy. But once they invent the portable fusion power supply....

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. Hubby's backpack tops at over 60 pounds

mine tops at 50, we include water in mine. It is a hell of a workout. When we carry the helmets, they add 6 pounds to the load

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. I think you are most likely right, dear Nadin.

Whoever we put up against him will have a fight on their hands.

I do feel pretty sure we can break him, though.

We have the weapons that will destroy him.

I hope.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. This is a change election

So that is a good question

[RKP5637]

80. Hillary will not break him, and this isn't a dig against her, but rather that millions and millions

of people are totally fed up with the establishment, R's, I's, D's. Trump represents drastic change, and some, many, will likely feel it's worth the risk. With all respect, Hillary represents the SOS, and no matter what she says, she is not IMO going to be able to shake that off. I'm not a defeatist, but given the national mood and the drift so far, I could see Trump sadly winning in 2016, and then I think this country might well change into something many will regret! Somehow, the DNC and DWS are clueless as to what is happening in the US with the mood of the voters.

[daleanime]

3. The only question is....

will we let Hillary be run over by the train, or do we have Bernie derail it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. The DNC will do all it can to keep the populist away

They made their choice and history will not be kind

[quickesst]

4. I don't see...

... how anyone here would be surprised.

[CincyDem]

6. He appeals to the people who want a candidate who they think will...

...physically throw that foreign born usurper out of the white house.

They don't just want to win, they want someone who will overtly take revenge on BHO. I actually heard a guy here in NKY was he was for Trump because he's the only guy with the guts to clean that stink out of "our" White House.

WTF ??? Is this where we're headed. I certainly hope not.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. That is but one group he appeals to

The coalition is quite fascinating. Since I referred to classic European fascism, some of it is not unlike that which propelled the Nazis into power.

[DemocraticWing]

7. Does the train run on time?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. I don't think so

Hitler loved the Autobahn, and Mussolini his trains. I am not sure Trump likes trains

[IDemo]

14. The Snowpiercer probably holds a certain attraction for him

Set in a future where a failed climate-change experiment kills all life on the planet except for a lucky few who boarded the Snowpiercer, a train that travels around the globe, where a class system emerges.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1706620/

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. True

[DJ13]

11. People are angry at the establishment. He will be the nominee.

That mood extends into our party, and independents as well.

Thats why nominating Clinton would be stupid........ she cant win playing the "experienced insider" card, that will just work in the GOP's favor this year.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yup

As an observer, not a partisan, I agree

[RKP5637]

88. Exactly, she is seen by millions as part of the establishment problem, and they want to dump the

establishment. Old tricks will not work IMO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. 10 present of Latino voters are GOP

And they broke for Trump...again, I am not surprised.

Per MSNBC. They also translated that to 800 or so

[First Speaker]

19. Trump's opposition to the TPP might put him in the White House...

...this puts the northern industrial states into play for the GOP--assuming that Hillary is the nominee, as I grudgingly suspect she will be. The Repub elites will be horrified by this, but what are they going to do? Run a "Free Trader" as a 3rd Party candidate? They made their bed; now they have to sleep in it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Yup I've said it here in the last week

He is going all the way. Especially if the democrats nominate the establishment candidate. TPP is one of the reasons

[CoffeeCat]

38. Hillary has no credibility on the TPP

Bernie has been pretty quiet about Clinton's behavior on the TPP, but a Donald Trump would eviscerate her on it.

All he would have to say is, "You called it the 'gold standard' you propped it up or said nothing during a time when you had the power to do something and you did nothing!" OMG, Hillary practically unravels when anyone dares to slightly challenge her. Trump would lob grenades to her face and he wouldn't mince words. He sure as hell won't say, "I'm tired of hearing about your damn emails!" He would be talking plenty about her emails.

Democrats are nice. Donald Trump, not so much.

One thing is true though--the majority of Americans (Dems/Repubs) are against the TPP. That is a piece of shit bit of legislation that every American knows will turn our country into a third-world landfill.

The right and the left hate that it would give such primitive countries control over US policies. The left hates it further, because it would gut environmental regulations and workplace safety and important labor standards.

[pampango]

44. "... the majority of Americans (Dems/Repubs) are against the TPP." From what polls?

... the majority of Americans (Dems/Repubs) are against the TPP.

The most recent polls I have seen show majority Democratic support for it while significantly fewer republicans support it. In total 49% think it is "good" (51% of Democrats, 50% of independents and 43% of republicans) while 29% view it as "bad". If there are more recent polls that I have missed, please post links.


http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/10/06/canadians-satisfied-with-u-s-relationship/canada-report-06/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/20/what-canadas-new-government-might-mean-for-u-s-relations/ft_15-10-15_canadapartisan2_ttp-3/

... it would give such primitive countries control over US policies.

How exactly does one define a 'primitive' country? Is it one populated by 'primitive' people? One of 'normal' people who are poor? One of 'normal' people ruled by a 'primitive' government?

[LibDemAlways]

51. I seriously question whether most of those polled in

the US have any clue what the TPP is. At the very least I would need to see how the question was framed and whether or not a description was provided, and what that description entailed, before the respondent expressed an opinion.

[pampango]

68. That is quite likely. It may well be that Democrats generally support engagement with the world -

building bridges as it were - while republicans are more often suspicious of such engagement - building walls to keep the world away.

I suppose one could make the same observation about inadequate knowledge with polls conducted on the Paris climate agreement, the Iran nuclear agreement and a host of other complicated agreements. If I were polled on the Paris agreement my response would probably be based on my attitude towards international cooperation to deal with climate change rather than on the specific chapters of the agreement. My guess if that is what happens when the public is polled regarding the TPP.

I have never seen any poll which showed the republican base was not more opposed to any international agreement - trade, climate, arms exports, disability rights and on and on - than were Democrats. Perhaps this is a legacy of FDR and his array of international organizations created after WWII. Perhaps it more fundamental than that and lies in how liberals view the world compared to the conservative worldview.

The poll I posted does not 'prove' anything other than that the statement I was responding to - "... the majority of Americans (Dems/Repubs) are against the TPP" - is unproven without more evidence.

[yourpaljoey]

54. Spectacle

emails
transcripts
Clinton foundation
lies lies and more lies
TPP as the gold standard
and sooooo much more

Trump/Hillary debates will be a bloody massacre;
she will unravel almost immediately and never recover.
What will she say when Trump the big-mouth-bully taunts her, mockingly, mercilessly on national TV with her own words!?
Raw meat for his base, and so much of it.
It will be a television spectacle with huge ratings that will tear
the Democratic Party apart.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. One qualifier

The Democratic Party is already torn asunder. In some ways this is 1968 all over. A friend pointed to 1824, when both parties of the time ended up going into deep existential crisis. The Rs establishment is done. I suspect the D establishment is misreading it's base in epic ways as well.

[CoffeeCat]

58. That's right--it is the war on the establishment in both parties

And I find it utterly amazing that the Republicans have kicked the Kochs to the curb, and are in the process of bucking their establishment while the Democrats are split. I mean...the REPUBLICANS!! The party of warmongers, corporate kow towing, racism, religious extremism and stupidity. They're light years ahead of us!

And look at the Democrats--50/50 on whether or not to send the establishment packing-which is OBVIOUS to the entire country that this is what needs to be done.

Our country is a laughing stock on the world's stage because we have allowed our bought-and-paid-for politicians to let powerful corporations determine the future of EVERYTHING--from healthcare and energy policy to trade and climate change.

The Republicans are scapegoating minorities--as they try to find a cause for the problems. But at least they see how utterly contemptible the Establishment is--and they are kicking it to the curb. Their choice of Trump is deplorable. Utterly frightening. It's too bad that a John Huntsman couldn't have captured their imaginations.

But the Democrats---there is no excuse for offering up the most establishment candidate EVER who is the poster child for the chilling corporate corruption that has decimated our democracy.

My God, the DNC--what are they even thinking?

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. Not just minorities

I was looking at the entry polls in Nevada. Large majorities also voted against the evil gub'mint

[CoffeeCat]

62. Right...I saw that. Trump won everywhere

I might not have been clear...but I meant that Trump is benefitting from the anti-establishment wave--but he is scapegoating minorities and immigrants and telling everyone that this is the root of the problem. Clearly, it is not.

Bernie is being honest about what the real problems are: Income inequality, a corrupt-campaign finance system, politicians who are in the pockets of powerful corporations and special interests, the erosion of the middle class, soaring college costs and on and on.

Both Bernie and Trump are appealing to those who want to throw the bums out. Trump is lying to voters and telling them that the ills of this country are due to immigrants and a lack of a wall. It's disgusting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Lie is such a harsh word :-;

This is a change election. If the voters only have trump in the GE, get used to saying President trump

[CoffeeCat]

66. Yes, that is the big crime here

America has finally woken up and the majority of Republicans, Democrats and Independents are done with the bullshit.

And who does the DNC/DWS offer up as a candidate during an election that is hell bent on change--even worse than 2008? They offer Hillary. The ultimate status-quo corrupt politician who is so cozy with her Wall Street boy's club that she can't even release HER OWN WORDS!

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. I suspect that is either just a bad habit on her part, deflect

Lie, you know the rest...or there is something in those transcripts that truly are daming, a la 47 percent Romney statement.

Either way, at this point her fans are making a serious mistake in thinking this will not matter.

The email server story, sure...unless you understand that highly technical story, and most don't; but this one hits to the core of what is driving the base revolt. The banisters are corrupt, she went to Goldman Sachs no less...Jesus almighty how tone deaf can you be? (Rethorical before some body answers this)

[RKP5637]

86. Well said! The DNC and DWS solution is to provide the SOS again. They totally have blinders on

and live in a bubble. They just can't seem to comprehend what is going on in the US with respect to hatred for the establishment and the past decades.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Hatred is such a strong word

but true in this case.

[libdem4life]

73. Existential crisis...that nails it. Hillary's expiration date has passed. Enough is Enough. Both

Trump and Bernie have that in common...neither want anything to do with the establishment of the parties they have been forced to join...and vice versa.

Not so sure they are misreading, but are so far into the Bubble that it hasn't mattered, thus far. That's they way it's always been...quotes the Establishment.

Sanders and Trump...not so fast, guys/gals. It would be a fascinating GE. Hillary and Trump...nearly a contact sport. But Bernie can beat him...Hillary????

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. The commentariat is starting to say it

Clinton v trump, get used to saying president trump

http://static.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency.html

[libdem4life]

91. Thanks for the link. Long read, but explains exactly what I see. If it's not Bernie, it's Trump.

This should be an OP...really.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Somebody else posted it yesterday at GD:P

last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1324270

[libdem4life]

96. That's when I don't get this "one post only"...many of us do not stay at our computers

all day. There are great posts and links...going both ways to be fair...that I think should be posted more than once for exposure. I've gone to the Greatest Threads many times and hadn't seen some of them.

Oh well, rules are rules, nontheless, and I love DU...so...

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Well I could, why I am just spreading it like nuts

but I have been called a closet trump supporter for saying precisely that... I think some are chomping for a PPR, just for daring to point out the current anger.

[craigmatic]

20. trump personifies the tea party. they've taken over the republicans completely if he wins

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. The TP is one of his comstituencies

Bat hardly the only one.

[ffr]

21. I had lunch today with a Republi who was caucusing for Trump

His background is he has always voted Republi all his life. He's more to the right than most, considers Bush II a RINO. I'd label him libertarian who votes straight GOP ticket and thinks he's smarter than everyone else around him. Of course he repeats the talking point that he's mad, but doesn't ever explain about what. He listens to a lot of RW radio. Dennis Miller seems to be his favorite at the moment.

Here's how he explained it to me today when I asked if his wife (R) or neighbors (R) were going to caucus. "They're not interested in going. I invited them to come along with me, but only one of their son's is coming along. Too much hassle! This will be my second caucus. It's stupid. You sit around with a bunch of your neighbors, raising your hand and a few people speak up about their candidates." So out of several dozen GOP supporters, only two were 'MAD' or 'REALLY REALLY MAD' enough about the direction the country was headed to bother participating in picking a party candidate.

They don't sound motivated at all. If anything they sound like they're a room full of cats, running about aimlessly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Yet their turn out was very high

[ffr]

29. IDK. What I saw of the cars parked at the caucus site we were at on Saturday

about 1/3 as many cars. I doubt many Republis would walked to an event around dusk, so I would assume the attendance inside to be much less than that.

I popped over to our local media outlet stories. They said they had 1,000 people at one of the high schools. We had probably twice that at a smaller neighborhood school and we were organized. We were put in the school cafeteria with one other precinct. There were 258 of us and there were about 15 or 20 classrooms in standing room only. The local DNC had training for volunteers and things went pretty smoothly. The GOP, according to the story, didn't provide training and the volunteers didn't know what to do. One of the participants said it was a "cluster*#($."

Good! Keep it up. You're going to lose the G.E. to one of our awesome candidates anyway. Might as well hand us the election on a silver platter. While you're at it, give us a supermajority in the house too. Bernie and Hillary will have a lot of business to get started on in the name of the people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. This is being reported by all media outlets

It is what it is.

Here CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/23/politics/nevada-caucus-republican-problems/index.html

[ffr]

49. I did the math. Dems trounced the Reps by 12%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1064143

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. You might have done it

But this is what is being reported. R's have the same enthusiasm to take back the WH Dems did in 2008.

The question is how will this translate to in tje GE?

[herding cats]

25. I'm not at all surprise he won.

I expected it. Which doesn't mean each Trump win doesn't make me sick in my stomach. I cannot believe this person has a chance of being president in 2016, but the fact is he really does. In some ways it's 2000 all over again for me.

Rubio has a few states he may take still, but Trump has more. This isn't some joke anymore. It's real.

I'd like off this freaking merry-go-round now. Please, and thank you very much.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. You and I are in the minority (we are paying attention)

And President Trump will make us look fondly at the Bush years.

And I don't give Rubio, or Cruz (who is actually scarier) a chance to even slow down this train. (Wreck)

[herding cats]

37. I don't want to think we're in a minority on this.

I know it may well be a fact, but it's such recent history. Can we have really forgotten such a painful lesson already?

Trump terrifies me. Even more than Bush did in 2000, and I said in 1998 if Bush made it to president like he was angling for he would lead us to a war in Iraq, which would be a global disaster. Bush had more tricks up his sleeve than even that, and I shudder to imagine what self-serving tricks Trump has planned, all things considered. I know I'll be screwed over royally before he's done with me. Of that I'm sure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I suspect quietly there are plans afoot to contain the US

Yes, trump might lead to a nice hot war that will be hotter than Bush's

Yup, he also scares me

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Beam me up Scotty.

[gwheezie]

27. Trump has pretty good odds of being president

No matter who we nominate. So far dems are not bringing in the voters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. That is one reason

[CoffeeCat]

30. CNN showed maps of Nevada, NH and SC

and Trump is winning everywhere--with Evangelicals, in the suburbs, rural areas, urban areas.

The states were completely saturated with Trump-winning precincts.

I don't see Trump as you see him. I'm not seeing Mussolini or Hitler--but admittedly, I don't listen to him often. What I have heard of him reminds me of Silvio Berlusconi--a real blowhard buffoon.

I do find it very astonishing that the Republican establishment has completely lost control of their party. The Kochs initially put all of their eggs in Scott Walker's basket. When they discovered that he was dumber than chalk, they settled on Rubio. OMG...Can you imagine the hours that they have worked him over, trying to train him to look and sound Presidential. Now, that investment is turning into a penny stock.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. The emphasis of enemies having low energy

Is indeed a theme in mussolini's speeches. And the we are going to be great again is a hitler (lite) theme. Also his stroking of low education voters is very much a volk theme. Admittedly there is a dash of berlusconi in there.

[kcjohn1]

32. The effective fascists are populist

Watch him run against Hillary on trade. He'll say her husband and her allowed our jobs to go China. He'll say she is bought by big interest. He knows because he bought her and he has the checks to proof. Worse she took money from Moslems (Saudis) in exchange for weapons that are in Isis hands.

It's going to be crazy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Add also a string theme of chosen and strong

Of course, he's employed those two already

[SoLeftIAmRight]

39. Americans will not vote establishment. Americans will get change.

Vote Sanders or you get Trump.

[Albertoo]

41. Trump, a fascist? Naaah. And, if any, less than GW.

Fascists have troops who cower opponents into submission. Haven't seen shock troops in black shirts and yellow toupees yet. Fascists also like to wage useless wars, something Trump doesn.t advocate.
G-invade-Iraq-W would have been a better fit for the qualificative.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. That is far from tje limit to the definition

You should go read it.

[Albertoo]

119. Even with Merriam Webster, it doesn't tally

Unless you tell me how

a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government
: very harsh control or authority

Full Definition of fascism

often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. Here from the speeches that he gives

Full Definition of fascism

often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

We already have seen these three major markers

Now do yourself a favor and read a tad more into it. I would recommend this from well Benito

http://legacy.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.asp

I also recommend that you also read into this theory... inverted authoritarianism, For some silly reason I suspect he will not take on fully the classic form of the 1930s, but him doing that would not shock me either.

Sheldon Woolin will be an illuminating read, since Mr Trump is not the beggining of this either.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DXON3Y/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

[Albertoo]

132. I still do not get your point

You put into bold letters 'often race' and 'forcible suppression of opposition'. Trump says lots of daft things, but I don't see those two: Mexicans or Muslims are not a race, and where is the 'forcible suppression of opposition'?
One could call Trump a populist, a demagogue, but calling him a fascist is stretching things. Caricaturing the opposite side isn't a sound basis for democratic disagreement.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. Have you missed how mexicans and muslims are referred to by the KKK

that endorsed him? By the way Jews are not a race either, yet we faced gas chambers

And if you have not seen Trump encouraging his followers to beat the shit out of protesters I can't help you.

You will see... and as many Germans you will learn of this I suspect too late. I am glad that my father is not alive any longer. I am sure he could give you in full details just how much his speeches are like Hitlers... and by the way Trump is a fan of the speeches.

This was reported as early as August of last year

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/23/donald-trump-actually-kept-a-book-of-adolf-hitlers-speeches-by-his-bedside/

Since then he has denied it. But hey, mileage will vary, when VOLK appeals are in there, what can I say?

[Albertoo]

142. I have European Jewish roots, and still do not see your point

I have a Maus-like fear of anything which can lead to concentration camps or genocide (Fascism, Communism, racism, religious fundamentalism, etc). Yet I still do not see Trump building concentration camps.
Anti immigration rhetoric is age old populism. Propping up bogeymen isn't a sound way to debate political opponents IMHO.

PS: the KKK support of Trump is just further proof of how mush KKK brains are: the KKK was supposedly grounded in the defense of Protestantism vs those **pesky** Catholics and Jews.
While Trump doesn't even pretend to really believe in anything.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. You will see

it should be fun... nor will he order anything like that on the first day... Hitler did not either.

[Albertoo]

145. Way before taking power, Hitler had paramilitary troops

Like I wrote before, I still haven't seen people in black shirts wearing blond toupees.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. And you wont

You are the one thinking that the only form of fascism is that one. Why I recommended Woolin. Have an excellent day. But you will see. It won't be pretty.

[quaker bill]

42. Trump is everything Romney wasn't

When Romney did his 47% thing and was caught, he walked it back. Trump does and will say more offensive things daily and when challenged will double down. Some people see this as more authentic, and in a certain sense it is true.

Romney did believe everything he said in the 47% riff, but did not have the cojones to say it in public and back it up. Trump says what he thinks publicly and dares you to take issue with it. Yes, he says stupid and hateful things, but if you are getting in the ring with him, bring lots of brass and be ready to go the distance.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Well I am more and more convinced that the American voter

Is rather shallow. Not the people who post here, though some seem quite surprise I am willing to say it...this will be bad for Dems if they nominate Hillary. But in general the voter is shallow, infantile, does not want to be told about issues (those are boring). Tje test is who the hell can we have a beer with? I know plenty of people I would love to have a beer with, that does not mean they are ahem qualified for dog catcher, let alone the Presidency.

[LibDemAlways]

59. The fact that millions of people voted for

a dumbass like Bush speaks volumes about the American public. His supporters had no clue that they were buying a puppet controlled by a cabal of neocons interested only in perpetual war in order to line their own pockets. To them he was a genial Texan they'd like to hang with at the local watering hole. Americans are easily duped.

Apparently Trump's tough guy bluster has a lot of appeal. Republicans aren't interested in hearing about his bankruptcies/business failures, inherited wealth, and womanizing that makes Bill Clinton look like a monk by comparison. They see photos of his lavish lifestyle and think they are looking at a very successful self-made man and good Christian who tells it like it is and can get things done. Won't they be surprised if he's elected and they discover he knows nothing about government, balks at moving into the White House because it isn't opulent enough for his taste, and treats the whole thing like he's still on The Apprentice and can rule like a mafia don.

I think Trump got into this thing on a lark and to feed his ego. He never expected to get this far, and now is probably scared shitless of actually winning. But no backing out now. It will, indeed, be a bumpy ride.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. You are misreading trump

He did not get in as a lark, nor is he going to get out. He is also going all the way if HRC is the nominee. Perhaps the spankng will finally make us grow up as a people.

[LibDemAlways]

69. I know he isn't backing out. He can't at this point.

Whatever his original intentions, he has to be in it to win it now. I am certain that if he wins, his supporters will be in for a very rude awakening, and he will definitely be a one termer and a sad but cautionary footnote in the history books.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Depends on how he governs (ugh)

But statistically he has a good chance of being a two termed. Since WWII only Carter broke that mold for a party switch one term.

That said, I expect the Republican congress to be as helpful to Trump as they have been to Obama, so you might have a point there.

[haikugal]

101. That's what I'm telling myself. We do need to grow the hell up!

[quaker bill]

151. I think enough of us are bright enough

to see through Trump, but they will need to be given a viable alternative. I have long thought that "issues" and "resume" are collectively not the way to win this office. Barack ran on "Hope and Change" as an image and it worked. Trump will run on arrogance and it might work.

What will not work is Hillary's regular fall back "it is unfair". The Clintons have run successfully on "unfairness" since Jennifer Flowers came up in 1992. Trump will be "unfair" to Hillary, and he will do it boldly over and over. If Hillary says that Trump is being "unfair" his fans will only applaud.

Recently Hillary has accused Bernie of being "unfair" and using "subtle smears". Trump will not be subtle, and when accused of using smears, will simply laugh.

My concerns with Hillary as a candidate are different than my concerns about her as President. As a candidate, she would have been fine as she is against JEB, or Ted, or Marco. Against Trump she will need to learn a whole new game, and one that neither she or her husband have any notable skill for, being the bigger bombast in the room. I think Bernie would be better at this, Howard Dean has some skills here, Alan Grayson has toe to toe skills like this, perhaps a few others. Hillary will have to train really hard, and even then I am not sure she is up to it. Chris Christie could not handle Trump and he is a skilled bombast.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. I agree.

but I expect her to lose... lemme see, we want change. We got this exciting guy (watching Trump is a show as long as you ignore the message), who wants to go against DC... or this milquetoast insider?

That is the mood of the voter right now.

[Cosmocat]

153. I have been saying for a long time now

Trump is gaffe proof, at least in the primary because of what you said, and because there literally is nothing he could say that would be off putting to this voters.

Not sure if it works like that in the general, but in the republican primary, today, with them having spent 8 years completely using their minds over BHO ...

[quaker bill]

154. Trump has already made enough gaffes

to end the career of any other candidate and has only gotten stronger. The notion that this stops when we switch to the GE holds no water. The people offended by Trump already have everything they need to be fully offended, he can't make it worse. The rest like what he is doing and seem to want more.

Trump will not get the doilies and fine china out for the GE. He will simply go for a larger bat or a bigger hammer.

[Cosmocat]

155. It isnt the general

So either notion "holds water" because we just dont know.

I certainly agree that he isnt going to change, and I absolutely do believe this country is stupid enough to make him potus.

But, we cant know until we get there.

[pampango]

43. The link of Trump and the European far-right is apt. "To understand Donald Trump, look to Europe."

To understand Donald Trump, look to Europe


The leader of the Dutch far-right Freedom Party (PVV), Geert Wilders, is seen during a visit to Washington, D.C.
in April. Wilders has advocated closing Dutch borders to stop what he has called an "Islamic invasion."

True, Trump's naked appeals to nativist, anti-immigrant populism have parallels in American history, from Pat Buchanan in the 1990s to George Wallace in the 1960s and 1970s to Millard Fillmore's Know-Nothing Party in the 1850s. (Trump) has totally ignored the Planned Parenthood undercover video controversy; and he has been griping about foreign trade since the 1980s (then it was Japan, now China).

In a European context, Trump would fit more comfortably. Many countries on the European continent pursue a “consensus” politics of the center-left and center-right. The moderates in power support a generous social-welfare state and more business regulation than Americans would accept, marginalize religious social-issue conservatives, and ignore crime and immigration.

By shunting so many issues beyond the pale of the mainstream, the elite fuel right-wing populist parties. Leaders like Geert Wilders in Holland, Marine Le Pen in France and their counterparts in Poland, Sweden, Belgium and Hungary give vent to the anxieties that establishment politicians would rather pretend did not exist. Accordingly, like conservatives in the United States, they stress security, including border security. But reflecting their working-class constituencies, European right-wing parties are often more anti-business, anti-trade and pro-social-welfare than American Democrats, let alone American Republicans.

The European right wing traces its heritage in part to the old monarchists. Yet its populist leaders also echo mid-20th century dictators such as Mussolini and Hitler, who were simultaneously violent nationalists and self-proclaimed socialists who disdained individual rights and sought domination over private business and Christian churches. ... In that sense, Trump's anti-immigrant, anti-trade, “Make America great again” nationalism may not be un-conservative, but it is literally un-American. It lacks the reverence for America's founding principles and the Lincolnesque concern for individual rights to life and liberty that have long called American conservatives to the more hopeful better angels of our nature.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1215-mclaughlin-trump-european-nationalist-20151215-story.html

I wonder if Trump is a student of modern (and historical) RW European populist politicians and sees in their recent successes a pattern for him to follow here. Or if he is just the latest in a long history of American "nativist, anti-immigration" populists (like "Pat Buchanan in the 1990s to George Wallace in the 1960s and 1970s to ... the Know-Nothing Party in the 1850's&quot .

It would seem that Donald and Geert share the same hair dresser.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. During the summer, when trump started to creep me up

We started to look at him carefully. I spent some cozy time with hitter speeches, which seems Trump is a fan off. Mussolini's and indeed the current crop of European fascists. While the media was still chortling and having a good laugh, mind you like they did in Germany, I was getting scared.

I posted above a couple pieces I posted at RSD. As late as December the conventional wisdom was Jeb. As late as December I called this a base revolt. Oh we are about to get a heck of an education.

[AngryAmish]

147. Toss Huey Long in there, too.

[notadmblnd]

52. This years voter is very anti establishment.

Voters on both sides Republican and Democratic are fed up. People came out in mass to vote for Donald Trump yesterday, if Bernie is not the Democratic nominee, and the people given a choice between establishment Hillary Clinton and anti- establishment Donald Trump- Trump will become our next president.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. Yup

Some here will accuse you of being (by stealth mind you) for trump.

This is now in foreign affairs as well. So it is trickling, finally, into the commentariat

http://static.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency.html

[notadmblnd]

55. Well -sticks and stones and all that

I grew up with some pretty ruthless sisters. I can take the name calling.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Well yeah I added the partisan to my list of special people

And told him such. He was hurt I added him to my list of HRC supporters, many of whom are openly antisemitic, off site of course

[PufPuf23]

64. At this point I expect Trump to be the GOP POTUS nominee quite easily.

I expect Trump will have a scary (and relatively powerful in practice) VP nominee.

I just hope that the Democratic Party doesn't blow the situation and manages to gain ground in Congress and State and local elections.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. You are not the only one.

And some here will see this post of yours as...stealth trump voter.

The Dems have a chance only if they start to read their own base revolt correctly. This is a change election.

[PufPuf23]

75. No way would I ever consider a vote for Trump (nor any GOP)

I am in the contingent that is of the opinion that Hillary Clinton is an unattractive candidate for Democratic POTUS nominee that may very well lose and drag down Democratic success in down ballot elections.

HRC was my #9 (last) candidate in 2008.

We would have had a much healthier choice in candidates had HRC taken the wise choice and not run for POTUS in 1016.

I find Bernie Sanders attractive but as every POTUS candidate except Eugene McCarthy and early career Jerry Brown, has backed into my vote.

I am in California so my POTUS vote hardly counts but highly inclined (100%) and motivated to vote Democratic.

There is a dire problem that needs to be solved within the Democratic Party as to whether we follow a social democratic or neoliberal model of political philosophy because the positions are at such odds.

We also should be making every elected position competitive from city to county top state to federal.

I am pretty down on the DNC these times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Being in a deep blue state

Is liberating.

I just pointed this out because I was accused of being one for pointing out this political reality. Hell, he continued to dig and accused me of being a nadderite. To say that he is misreading the current mood and lashing out is to put it kindly.

Once the computer turns on, I am posting my trump victory piece at RSD. I went out and said it, trump is the nominee

[PufPuf23]

81. Your energy is admirable. nt

[AngryAmish]

148. Roberts of KS is a natural.

Kashich also. MI gov is a repub, yes?

Long shot? Schwartzenneger. If they run together...no way they can lose.

[djean111]

67. I keep thinking that some encouraged Trump to run because they assumed he could beat

the motley GOP crew, and would never be popular enough to threaten Hillary. And Hillary was supposed to vanquish Bernie immediately, and scoop up his supporters, easily.
And now things are not proceeding as planned by the establishment power brokers.
What a tangled web we weave, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. That is one theory that Mal also proposed

In another thread. And there might be something to it. But I personally think he saw his chance and took it. He can read moods well. He was thinking of running in the past.

[djean111]

82. I'd like to know what was discussed in that meeting with Bill that Trump had, right before he

declared. Saw something about that in the news.

It is just that the reactions from some make me feel like this all was supposed to be a fait accompli, but has unexpectedly run off the rails.
Hence the shrill unpleasantness. From some.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Well, since I do not consider the US a working democracy anymore

A historian will have fun with that precise question maybe in the future

[Zorra]

70. Third Way Democrats doomed us by selling us out after the 2008 election.

Trump is the consequence of their betrayal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. That is one of the strands

2008 was also a change election. This has just deepened

[highprincipleswork]

79. Unfortunately, there is a real "deer in the headlights" quality to the Hillary campaign.

I do not look forward to seeing that look when Trump brings his change campaign, misguided as it is, to America.

We need someone to firmly support positive change against his negative.

That person, obviously, is Bernie Sanders.

[RKP5637]

84. 2016 well might be one of those seismic events that often occur in the history of countries.

I'm really concerned like another poster that the US is going off the rails ... and into a deep ravine in 2016.

[0rganism]

85. Nevada? hardly a shock at all

there are buildings all over that state with his name on them in glittery gold letters, his very existence amounts to free advertising there

now South Carolina, that was a bit of a surprise - all those evangelicals turning out to vote for Mr. "Two Corinthians" instead of the genuine theocrat (Cruz)

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Which points to the base he is building

It is wide and not shallow I suspect.

[0rganism]

98. yep, he's a stronger candidate than anyone imagined

when he started out by insulting Mexicans and saying he was going to make them pay for a gigantic border wall, i figured he was just going to crash & burn right there

but it only made him popular with the racists

and now he's pulling in support from the minority of minorities who align with the Republicans

he's going to be a tough opponent in November if he wins the nomination, for either of the Democratic hopefuls

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Oh he will win the nom

http://reportingsandiego.com/2016/02/24/trump-wins-nevada/

Yup I went there. I should make it an OP.

And yup, most minorities who are republican will vote trump as well.

[nruthie]

87. I am not surprised...but appalled.

I feel like I am watching the country disintegrate all around me. It is as though hordes of insane lemmings are hysterically marching joyously to their doom and they are too DAMN stupid to even know or care that all hell is busting loose. I am frankly terrified at the possibilities in store for all of us. People who are not worried are not paying attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. The base revolt is in bothy parties

because people have had it with the establishment... it is just that one side of this defines the solutions differently.

And the establishment in both parties has misread this.

As to fear, it is part of it. President Trump scares me. On the bright side, there is a slight one here. You think the Republican congress will fully cooperate with Trump? There are legion reasons I don't think so, and I hope I am reading them right. That said, after they got rid of Boehner, a certain faction might take over and do such.

[JCMach1]

90. I predicted on DU after he gave his announcement speech he would be the Republican nominee

...Nadin is right, dismiss him at your peril.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. It took me a week

I went on record at the paper I run in August

And I just went on record at that paper that he will be the nominee again.

http://reportingsandiego.com/2016/02/24/trump-wins-nevada/

[JCMach1]

100. The strange thing is Rep. and Dem's are still in Denial about this

The other dangerous thing is the coalition he is putting together DOES look a lot like Reagan's. While those constituencies are not as big as 1980, I think the real danger (Clinton, or Sanders as the opponent) is it would put us one terrorist attack from having Trump as President. I think one nasty attack and the election would immediately become 2000 close.


I find that a very scary prospect.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. Some is reagan's

Add to the soup the openly racist. He was endorsed by the KKK and other upstanding citizens. It also will include a fairly good chunk of minorities

[Cosmocat]

130. I said he had a sleeper hold on the nomination

about that time.

I have been telling people he isn't a joke all along.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Good, some of us have been paying attention

but not enough I susepct

[JCMach1]

146. Exactly!

[Warren DeMontague]

104. I'm not. Leaving aside the content of what he's saying, he's way more exciting to watch than

any of the other candidates. Compared to him everyone else is a snooze-fest.

If he's nominated, we better hope he implodes, because I think underestimating him is a big mistake.



Also, he's actually studied Hitler's speeches, apparently. Which is real comforting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

108. Ezra Klein posted a video on this yesterday on FB

of course i went, ok Mr, Klein why did you not go there oh five months ago?

[Warren DeMontague]

113. I said a while back that Trump has gone well past "flirting" with fascism

he's at the "long lusty drunken tongue kisses in the back of the taxi" phase of his relationship with the thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. I think he is well beyond that

[Marr]

105. The thing is, the kabuki theater has just been too obvious over the last 16 years.

People are sick of the establishment con-men on both sides, and willing to vote for anything that isn't part of it.

[Warren DeMontague]

106. I'll tell you who is partly to blame, also. The "YOU CANT SAY THAT!" wing of the left.

The people who would ditch the 1st Amendment in a heartbeat if it meant censoring "blasphemous" cartoons. The people who have taken political correctness to the heights of fucking absurdity, to the point where they spend all of their "progressive" energy on tumblr trying to police the speech of other liberals they deem insufficiently one thing or the other.

We have a situation where folks have convinced UN Panels on human rights (comprised of such human rights champions like Saudi Arabia) that the internet needs censoring, that ISIS lighting children on fire isn't nearly the pressing human rights concern that nasty tweets are.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/09/24/the-united-nations-has-a-radical-dangerous-vision-for-the-future-of-the-web/

I've been saying for YEARS that this sort of authoritarian mushy-headedness would come back around and bite us on the ass.

Yeah, Trump is gonna get some traction, in such a situation. Duh.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Hey, I can say with pride

that we were one of the only media in this country to run the cartoons from a certain french publication after they were attacked (charlie hebdo, for those who have forgotten). I must also say that sadly we were watching over our shoulders for a few months.

But yeah, that does not help, It is part of the soup of why he is gaining traction

[Warren DeMontague]

111. I think so. Frankly, I watched his victory speeches and got a sick feeling inside

like, we are making a big mistake underestimating the appeal of this shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. I watched and read his ham sandwitch of a launch speech

it was well... painful. He has gotten much better. That is why it took me a week, and reading a couple of mussolini's and hitler's speeches. When he started attacking bush as a low energy candidate, that was a constant of mussolini's... alarms went off... and our useless MSM was still chortling in December.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. red flags all over the place.

I agree.

[islandmkl]

110. Trump is merely smarter than all the politicians he is fighting with..

they think it is 'politics as usual' and the most aggressive, position-changing, pandering to the sleeping masses, keep-things-the-same-while-promoting-change bullshit positions, etc. is the way to address the current (and usually non-attentive) electorate...

well, the electorate, on all sides, except the establishment defenders, are having none of it...

and Trump, with a recent history of making 13 millions Americans tune in to him weekly, knows how to play THAT game...

and the career politicians are stuck in 2000 give or take a few years...and neither the Dems nor Repubs can adjust their game plans fast enough to counter his every move, let alone the ones he throws at them on top of the ones they haven't figured out how to react to...

and we Dems better get ready...because he ain't nothing good...but he is real...

and we have to counter that...

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. I know, but more than a few posters

are still living in that fantasy, and are not getting the anger at all.

[islandmkl]

117. we underestimate him, because we think he is one of 'them'...them being the very people

he has turned upside down and slashed their power election-wise...

he is not at Republican...he is beyond that...he is mobilizing/energizing an vast part of the electorate that has been just as much asleep as many on the left...thanks for 30+ years of mono-party (in reality) politics...

he is dangerous...but many are embracing that danger as the way they want to proceed...

history only has so many stories...they repeat themselves sooner than most realize...

he will have to combated with sense and real solutions...and I'm not sure the Democratic Party is up to actually providing that warplan...

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. The democratic establishment is under estimating the anger

as to history repeating itself, pretty much.

[islandmkl]

120. like they say at the roller coaster" 'Here we go again!"

I just don't think many people still actively participating remember the 1930's and the rest of us suffer from lack of knowledge...and those who don't know what was actually going on in America during that time, let alone Europe and beyond, have no idea what people will decide to do under certain circumstances...

Read Stud Terkel's "Hard Times' for a look into what the pulse was in America during the Depression...a lot of people, far left, far right, all over the middle, thought the system was not only not working, but maybe not good...

catharsis is painful, but necessary...

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. As I said, back in August all I had to go by

were more than a few trump events, speeches, and my knowledge of history. Quite frankly I wish I had been dead wrong and we were talking of Rubio taking the nomination.

[islandmkl]

128. remember the days when he was 'topped out' at like 20% and was a joke...

well, the goddam punch line is being delivered...and I hope that, in the end, there is no laugh...

if this doesn't get turned away, let alone around, we are headed for a mass Stockholm Syndrome...worse than the Bush years...

and hell, I am fairly optimistic that we can prevent the total dismantling of our democracy...but I'm not sure there is an alternative that will be successful...

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. It is going to be wild, that is for sure

[islandmkl]

136. Bette Davis time...

[AngryAmish]

121. The train has no brakes

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. And it keeps accelerating

I know

[AngryAmish]

127. Lunacy.

Ever see Silver Streak?

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. Nope, and I am getting a bunch of movie recomendations

need to take notes, I got a flight in the near future, and might as well watch a movie

[Warren DeMontague]

133. ***