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"Health care is not a right" (Original Post) ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2016 OP
In the purest sense, it isn't TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #1
Purest sense? tk2kewl Feb 2016 #6
A right that requires positive actions by another is a tricky thing Recursion Feb 2016 #8
Thank you tk2kewl Feb 2016 #9
Rights in the purest sense TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #11
I've sometimes wondered though if military spending could be seen to violate the 3rd amendment Recursion Feb 2016 #12
Yes. Thank you tk2kewl Feb 2016 #13
Better to think of "personal rights" and "functions of government" TexasMommaWithAHat Feb 2016 #14
Not yet. Beartracks Feb 2016 #2
I think he's the guy from "Catch me if you can" Happyhippychick Feb 2016 #3
It is a right. I can remember everyone dodging this question in 04. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #4
Right. But if you and your employers have payed into it... El Supremo Feb 2016 #5
If he has a medical emergency ending up in the ER hopefully the doctor will tell him that then walk Sam_Fields Feb 2016 #7
It is, according the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights LeftishBrit Feb 2016 #10

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
1. In the purest sense, it isn't
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:47 PM
Feb 2016

However, it should be a function of modern-day governments to provide for the health of all of its citizens.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. A right that requires positive actions by another is a tricky thing
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:45 AM
Feb 2016

Historically when we've talked about rights we've talked about preventing another's actions: my right to life means someone can't kill me; my right to speech means a government can't censor me. A right to healthcare implies requiring that a provider provide it. That's the extreme statement of the argument, at least (Rand Paul goes as far as to say it would "enslave doctors&quot .

That said, we're fairly comfortable with the idea of a "right to education", which does imply a requirement that educators educate; I think this becomes a political problem with health care because the economics suggest that doctors will end up having to make about what teachers make (and, for that matter, that's pretty much what we see in a lot of European countries -- doctors' and teachers' salaries are comparable, even if doctors make somewhat more). Similarly, we have a "right to counsel" in criminal trials, and that does mean requiring that public defenders defend people, and the results haven't exactly been spectacular.

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
11. Rights in the purest sense
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:56 AM
Feb 2016

are natural rights. You can't take them away except by force.

Speech rights, assembly, press, religion. Right to be secure in one's home (no forceful entry without a warrant, for example). No forceful quartering of soldiers (not that we have to worry about that. ) Right against self incrimination. (You can't be forced by torture, imprisonment, or whatever for failure to incriminate yourself.) Right to private property. Right to self defense. Equality.

You can't take these rights away except by force of one type or another (and I'm sure I'm missing some.)

Obviously, civilized societies declare many other rights for their citizens like education, healthcare, etc., but these rights are paid for by taxation, so if the country goes bankrupt tomorrow, these rights would be in peril, where natural rights shouldn't be.

Peace.




Recursion

(56,582 posts)
12. I've sometimes wondered though if military spending could be seen to violate the 3rd amendment
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:00 AM
Feb 2016

Hell, if campaign spending is speech, why isn't taxation quartering?

TexasMommaWithAHat

(3,212 posts)
14. Better to think of "personal rights" and "functions of government"
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 01:06 AM
Feb 2016

Providing healthcare for its citizens should be a function of modern-day, civilized government. That's my opinion, anyway.

And, then, if it is a function of government, everyone should have equal access under the law of whatever is provided by that government.

Unfortunately, declaring healthcare a right doesn't make it so. The U.N. can make all the declarations it wants that healthcare is a right, but it's not. You can't suddenly provide healthcare in the poorest countries in the world by some proclamation, but the poorest countries can still recognize the natural rights of its citizens.

Peace.

PatrickforO

(14,587 posts)
4. It is a right. I can remember everyone dodging this question in 04.
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:47 PM
Feb 2016

But it is. If we were fucking cave people, we'd have the 'right' to go see the shaman if we were sick, and pay her with a new flint knife, or some decorative carvings or something. But the point is we'd have the right. Just because.

LeftishBrit

(41,210 posts)
10. It is, according the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:47 AM
Feb 2016

Article 25 : Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services.

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