Just heard Howard Dean on MSNBC say HE SUPPORTS NAFTA. No wonder he supports Hillary.

[BigBearJohn]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the General Discussion forum).

[WestSeattle2]

1. What a goof. He also said that thanks to NAFTA, we now have "a stable neighbor"...

Really? The corrupt country that is controlled by drug lords? That stable state?

[flamingdem]

2. He didn't notice the drug war?

The current president covering up the death of 48 students?

[WestSeattle2]

5. No - it didn't fit his pro-NAFTA/Hillary narrative.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Well the 70,000 (low estimate)

dead toll from the war on drugs is just an accident... and don't get me started on things like Ayotzinapa, and the generalized unrest in the Sierra, partly due to the same neo liberal policies.

Oh wait, I know what he means by stable...Pena Nieto is privatizing everything in sight.

[saltpoint]

3. I had higher hopes for Dean than

where he is now. And what he is now.

Which, more or less, is a corporate sell-out.

[Buzz cook]

4. Give the full quote please.

He didn't say he supports NAFTA, he said he "supported" NAFTA. Dean also explained why he did so.

Your post lacks explanation and is inflammatory, not informative.

[BigBearJohn]

8. If you don't like how I write posts, write your own

[Buzz cook]

10. Sorry I didn't realize that

disagreement was forbidden. You should have said "get him outta here".

[FlatBaroque]

13. Go home to mommy Buzz cook

<---- Trump goon beating you on the way out

[BigBearJohn]

14. Oh you're funny. Dean said nothing refuting the idea that he still supports NAFTA. He says it's

good for the people of Mexico. He stated that most of these trade agreements do not
cause the kind of job loss that most people think they do. That is complete and utter crap.
You can disagree as much as you like, but please don't go telling me how to write my OPs.
Try writing your own instead of giving rules to others on how to write their ops. you are
doing more than disagreeing .... you are being dictatorial.

Besides that, who are you to be telling other people HOW they should write their posts?

[Buzz cook]

16. Was that so difficult?

While you do misquote him now at least you're making the effort.

Dean said that he supported NAFTA because it empowered women. He went on to say that he believed that those nations in which women had greater power became more democratic.

I tend to agree with the thesis. Not sure if it's true of Mexico after NAFTA, but it is something that can be researched and proven to be valid or not.

Unlike what you wrote in your OP.

[BigBearJohn]

17. If you are so happy about NAFTA, consider this: One Million U.S. Jobs Lost, Higher Income Inequality

Here is something you might like to read: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-wallach/nafta-at-20-one-million-u_b_4550207.html

[BigBearJohn]

19. Krugman Raises White Flag on Trade, admits his “free-trade” cheerleading was mostly garbage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511489693

[Gabi Hayes]

11. I saw it live. He supports NAFTA because it created a stable neighbor to the south.

If Mexico is stable, maybe they WILL pay for the wall.

The OP is exactly correct in conveying exactly what Dean was attempting to project, and it was laughably, ludicrously out of touch.

if you don't believe it, wait for the replay, or try to find it on youtube.

or try this link:

http://www.coha.org/nafta-and-drug-trafficking-perpetuating-violence-and-the-illicit-supply-chain/

[truebluegreen]

22. "Created a stable neighbor" is a fucking lie.

A Republican-candidate-for-President level of lie...oh, wait: who does he support, again?

[flamingdem]

6. So Dean is in favor of the TTP?

They want it to control geopolitics with China among other things.

[Scootaloo]

7. The more I hear from him, the more I like John Kerry

[Nye Bevan]

12. John Kerry voted for NAFTA.

And AFAIK he has never apologized for that vote or expressed any regrets about it.

[karynnj]

20. Not true- in 2004, he spoke of the fact that NAFTA had been harmful

He spoke of the fact that promised side agreements on the environment and workers rights never happened.

In 2005, he spoke in detail on problems when Ron Portman was going through confirmation hearings, referring to not just the problems here, but the problems in Mexico.

When CAFTA was being written, Kerry fought for a provision that the AFL CIO endorsed which was narrowly defeated in the Republican dominated committee. He spoke in committee of the opposition to CAFTA from the Bishops in Central America and referenced studies that showed the damage done by NAFTA in Mexico.

Kerry voted against CAFTA. I don't think he supported later Bush agreements.

I think that there could be an honest debate on whether trade deals could be used to correct the problems that globalization itself causes. Note that the problems Michigan faced started, not when NAFTA happened, but earlier when new auto plants were built in the non union South. Over time, what happened is that international corporations, which the car companies now are, have gone to using cheaper and cheaper labor. In essence, globalization has completely destroyed the balance that unions had given workers in making deals with large employers. Globalization expands the potential labor force. The question is how to deal with this. Though they have NOT done so, it might be that trade deals could be part of the solution to the problem caused by globalization.


Obama in his earlier trade bills did include the provisions that NAFTA lacked. Kerry did support them. This is not an issue where progressives would agree with Kerry.


Where a HUGE difference existed between Kerry and Dean is that Dean argued for over a year that Kerry was wrong to negotiate with Iran.

[onecaliberal]

9. He's a real piece of work these days isn't he. Must be a tidy sum he's receiving

[FourScore]

18. It's just...sad. n/t

[truebluegreen]

21. Dawg Almighty.

NAFTA has resulted in 20,000,000 people--20 million people--in Mexico living with food insecurity (former subsistence farmers who supported themselves and sold the excess; now undercut by Big Ag corn growers in the US).

It is not just that the misbegotten Drug War has been exported to Mexico, it is also the fact that the hardships created by NAFTA made fertile ground for the narcos--how else are desperate people to feed their families when international trade policies undercut their traditional way of life?

Dr. Dean can take a flying leap as far as I am concerned (fwiw former fan).

[In_The_Wind]

23. Locking

This OP does not fit the statement of purpose for this forum.

[img][/img] The consensus voice of the host believe the best place for this OP is in GDP.