'call(ing) libya a “shit show”', obama absolves himself and hillary of responsibility for 'libya'

[iAZZZo]

[br /]
"Mess is the President’s diplomatic term; privately, he calls Libya a 'shit show...'"
(http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/)

president provides characterization of former sos that ignores his ultimate decisionmaking

"The Iraq invasion, Obama believed, should have taught Democratic interventionists like Clinton, who had voted for its authorization, the dangers of doing stupid shit. (Clinton quickly apologized to Obama for her comments, and a Clinton spokesman announced that the two would “hug it out” on Martha’s Vineyard when they crossed paths there later.)"

instead of assuming responsibility for himself and his former sos, some foreign press takes note of his disposition:

"Obama hits out at Cameron, Sarkozy over Libya intervention"
http://www.france24.com/en/20160311-obama-hits-out-cameron-sarkozy-ovKeep your fingers crossed and pray for a soft landing for everyone's sake.er-libya-intervention

"Barack Obama says David Cameron allowed Libya to become a 's*** show'" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/barack-obama-says-david-cameron-allowed-libya-to-become-a-s-show-a6923976.html

"Obama blasts Cameron for 'free riding' over defence and for leaving Libya a 's***show'"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3485830/Barack-Obama-warned-David-Cameron-destroy-special-relationship-did-not-boost-defence-spending-free-riders-aggravate-me.html

and now we have president obama, shall we say, "mis-speaking"?
"Obama did not mean to criticise Cameron over Libya, says White House"
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/11/obama-did-not-mean-to-criticise-cameron-over-libya-says-white-house

oh yeah, and about hillary rodham clinton:

From: Anne-Marie Slaughter [mailto: <email redacted>]
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 09:37 AM
To: H
Cc: Abedin, Huma <[e-mail]>
Subject: bravo!

I cannot imagine how exhausted you must be after this week, but I have NEVER been prouder of having worked for you.
Turning POTUS around on this is a major win for everything we have worked for. AM

From: H <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:56 PM
To: 'slaughtr[redacted]
Subject: Re: bravo!

Keep your fingers crossed and pray for a soft landing for everyone's sake.

https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_Feb13thWeb/08634-FEB13/DOC_0C05787434/C05787434.pdf

"Hillary’s war: How conviction replaced skepticism in Libya intervention"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/hillarys-war-how-conviction-replaced-skepticism-in-libya-intervention/2011/10/28/gIQAhGS7WM_story.html

[br /]
[center][/center]

[roguevalley]

1. amazing.

[Hortensis]

2. Amazing is people summarily dismissing the explanations of

the planet's foremost expert in our actions. Tell me, how do you feel about Europe's role in what happened in Libya. They did push, and push, and push for US to get in there and stop the genocide, after all. Any role? Should they have done something? They're a half hour away across the water, after all.

Many posts here on the general theme of an evil America destroying a peaceful, pastoral, prosperous world out of our despicable greed and stupidity remind me of a statement about the differences between the far right and the far left. The article was more psycho- than political, so I moved on but I remember this generality: Extremists on the right hate everyone who isn't like them. Extremists on the left hate themselves.

[Octafish]

3. It is vital we beat them to stealing Libya's oil.

That's what the Game is all about, right?

[Hortensis]

4. Hmm. No. What about Obama's determination,

successful obviously, to make us energy independent? You do realize that Obama considers that region so dysfunctional that we cannot fix it and has worked for years to disentangle us as much as possible from their problems? He feels our future prosperity will be tied to nations of South and Central America and the Far East.

So, again, short version: No.
1. We don't want Libya's oil. We're so awash in our own petroleum that oil prices are unhealthily low.
2. That miserable, unfortunate game is played out.

The future of the Middle East and Muslim Africa is grim. We'll never get out entirely, but I'm absolutely in favor of what Obama has been doing.

Now, what about my question: Europe? Are we the only despicable, evil bastards in your world? Note, you're off the hook for the role of Libya's people in their own problems. I've had enough of these discussions to understand that these nations don't have actual people or histories just...vague victim beings of evil America.

[Octafish]

5. The facts are plain as day: The crowd running Washington makes big money off war.

If you don't see that, you need to learn about it.

And when did the United States become "energy independent"? Geez.

[Hortensis]

6. But Obama isn't them.

His election was a disaster for their plans. Think about it.

You know, the world changes constantly. Our understanding of it needs to also.

[roguevalley]

8. sometimes America is evil

[Hortensis]

9. Sometimes all nations are evil, some incredibly

dreadfully so. But for some who hate their nation here America can do no good and peoples elsewhere never cause their own problems. Ever.

I despise nationalism. I also despise the peculiar indulgence of mindless self-hate. Balance based on clear-eyed assessments is good.

[iAZZZo]

11. "Amazing is people summarily dismissing the explanations of the planet's foremost expert in our ..."

"Amazing is people summarily dismissing the explanations of the planet's foremost expert in our actions."

i like word salads... i really do, ala hitchens, buckley, gore. nonetheless, cogency remains paramount

"Many posts here on the general theme of an evil America destroying a peaceful, pastoral, prosperous world out of our despicable greed and stupidity remind me of a statement about the differences between the far right and the far left. The article was more psycho- than political, so I moved on but I remember this generality: Extremists on the right hate everyone who isn't like them. Extremists on the left hate themselves."

void of reference, yet 'jimmy' still maintains appreciation for your ability to "bump-the-thread"
_____

#notwithher

[maxsolomon]

7. This is the choice: pick the less terrible of 2 terrible options

You're going to hear it no matter what you do.

After Gulf War 1, both the right and left thought GHWB should have rolled into Baghdad. Unlike his Dim Son, he stayed out and left Hussein in place. All Iraqis suffered under the sanctions. Kurds and Shiites suffered more.

Libya was another such choice: stay out and let Gaddafi slaughter the Benghazans using this Air Force, or interfere and let the people of Libya overthrow their long time dictator. At the time, I felt Obama was choosing for freedom. He chose for chaos.

I do wish she hadn't made that joke.

Welcome to DU.

[iAZZZo]

10. "After Gulf War 1, both the right and left thought GHWB should have rolled into Baghdad."

"After Gulf War 1, both the right and left thought GHWB should have rolled into Baghdad"

nonsensical commentary. clearly were not of the age of majority at this time period referenced.

caution: a time ago it was learned the printed encyclopedia britannica was not a trustworthy reference. in addition to the statement, "stay out and let Gaddafi slaughter the Benghazans", one is cautioned regarding 'knowledge' gleened from wikipedia.

please..... endeavor to search beyond this limited horizon

[maxsolomon]

12. Perhaps you should endeavor to not condescend

and endeavor to write complete sentences.

=

[iAZZZo]

13. writing for the non-member "less than 144 character audience"

writing for the perusing, non-member "less than 144 character" twitter-oriented audience

thank you for your concern member maxsolomon