Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

gabeana

(3,166 posts)
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:07 PM Mar 2016

Why was Reagan not impeached for Iran Contra?

Dem's were in control of both houses
that is the problem with the establishment of the party, as George Carlin said it is a club we are not a part of and never will be
and Hillary for Dems like me see her as representing that club
just like the Bush cabal Oabma didn't even try to touch

111 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why was Reagan not impeached for Iran Contra? (Original Post) gabeana Mar 2016 OP
It is a club, and you sure as hell are not part of it. But if you wanna feel really left Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #1
Nah I will vote for Hillary gabeana Mar 2016 #3
Impeached and jailed. But he wasnt because of that club you talk about, funny Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #8
Thats not me gabeana Mar 2016 #13
Because All Faith In Our System Would've Vanished billhicks76 Mar 2016 #75
It is a club and RW Dems like Lee Hamilton are just as much a part as Reagan. Perhaps more. leveymg Mar 2016 #65
Hamilton let Reagan off the hook then Dubya & Dick Cheney MinM Mar 2016 #73
Exactly. That's why he's the go-to guy for bipartisan whitewash. leveymg Mar 2016 #76
George H. Walker Bush and the 1980 “October Surprise” Mystery MinM Apr 2016 #93
Because Reagan went on television and confessed to trading arms for hostages Tony_FLADEM Mar 2016 #2
That's it gabeana Mar 2016 #5
That's how I preceive it. Tony_FLADEM Mar 2016 #12
My recollection is that he said he couldn't remember. jhart3333 Mar 2016 #70
Actually that was part of it Dan Mar 2016 #77
There was discussion even while he was in office kskiska Apr 2016 #94
So if I rob a bank and then admit it, can I get off too? Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #9
I didn't say I agreed with Reagan not being impeached for Iran Contra Tony_FLADEM Mar 2016 #14
"My heart and my best intentions still tell me that is true. But the facts and the evidence StevieM Mar 2016 #28
And Ollie North agreed to be the fall guy. uppityperson Mar 2016 #31
Oliver North sulphurdunn Mar 2016 #57
Except he didn't admit to any wrongdoing. Not really. yellowcanine Apr 2016 #102
No he didn't, he just said, "Good Gosh, I've just been informed ...." L. Coyote Mar 2016 #63
disarming to anyone who was a fucking gullipble idiot Skittles Mar 2016 #81
The Democrats were afraid to go after Saint Ronnie. At times Democrats can be craven. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #4
They knew what his mental capacity was and also knew and feared the BFEE behind the scenes. libtodeath Mar 2016 #6
Sorry don't know what BFEE means gabeana Mar 2016 #11
Bush Family Evil Empire grasswire Mar 2016 #16
Bush Family Evil Empire. libtodeath Mar 2016 #17
Cool I like it gabeana Mar 2016 #18
People nowadays only view Poppy Bush as the better Bush - he was pure evil and blm Mar 2016 #46
It's a family tradition dating back generations dflprincess Mar 2016 #72
Poppy was good at hiding his evil ways. PeoViejo Apr 2016 #101
The media was uncomfortable with it - they knew then he was showing signs of serious blm Mar 2016 #7
Precisely DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #32
Pretty sure the governor was told to look the other way - blm Mar 2016 #43
Where did he get that nickname Poppy? DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #51
Nope - opium drug trade. blm Mar 2016 #53
Care to explain? DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #55
heheh...Poppy was CIA since the 60s. blm Mar 2016 #56
Oh I see. DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #59
No, it was for turning America into a plutocracy. Rex Mar 2016 #79
Took this nation off its path of citizen democracy and put it on the road towards full-on fascism. blm Mar 2016 #92
I"ve often wondered why Mena is the one part of Clinton's past that the most rabid Repubs wouldn't Boomerproud Mar 2016 #47
**This** 4nic8em Mar 2016 #35
and I think IranContra is one of the reasons she hated GHWBush so much. blm Mar 2016 #44
His illness started way before that mdbl Mar 2016 #58
Because the investigations finished in 1987, and jeff47 Mar 2016 #10
At the time, one news correspondent opined that the U. S. populace "gave him a pass." John1956PA Mar 2016 #15
Mena Arkansas? Politicalboi Mar 2016 #19
Haven't you heard Chris Matthews talk about the good old days? dogman Mar 2016 #20
Reagan got more from a Democratic congress 1939 Mar 2016 #27
Got more? UtahJosh Mar 2016 #87
Two major income tax cuts specifically 1939 Mar 2016 #88
Ford's pardon of Nixon for Watergate set the precedent. muntrv Mar 2016 #21
No 24/7 media coverage or social media back then. grossproffit Mar 2016 #22
What I understand is they questioned him about it and he didn't know anything..this was shraby Mar 2016 #23
Plausible deniability oberliner Mar 2016 #24
Iran-Contra Hearings 1939 Mar 2016 #25
Did you miss the perjury? Kingofalldems Mar 2016 #30
Did they indict Poindexter for perjury? NT 1939 Mar 2016 #36
I thought one of the charges against North was perjury. Kingofalldems Mar 2016 #71
Years later George W. Bush gave Poindexter a job in the War on Terror after 9/11 StevieM Mar 2016 #34
Right. Poindexter made sure the trail (apparently) ended with him, unlike the Watergate hearings, Mc Mike Mar 2016 #37
Poindexter fell on his sword for Reagan 1939 Mar 2016 #38
Their entire party is a bunch of slimy, sneaky felons, apparently. Mc Mike Mar 2016 #45
By that time the old man was already failing and it was jwirr Mar 2016 #26
Years ago I heard a NPR interview with Lawrence Walsh, the Independent Counsel csziggy Mar 2016 #42
Short answer: Democrats too chickenshit. villager Mar 2016 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author cyberpj Mar 2016 #33
It may have been considered an unwinnable fight struggle4progress Mar 2016 #39
Because imbeciles believed his grandpa act that he "didn't know anything about it" tabasco Mar 2016 #40
Actually, He didn't matter much in the equation. PeoViejo Apr 2016 #106
His grandpa act put a friendly face on the mafia that was running the country. tabasco Apr 2016 #109
Remembering Lines PeoViejo Apr 2016 #110
Impeachment is something only Republicans focus on. liberal N proud Mar 2016 #41
Some links to read Solly Mack Mar 2016 #48
Because William Casey, the person that authorized the weapons for hostages... Lochloosa Mar 2016 #49
People that knew too much PeoViejo Apr 2016 #103
spell rtracey Mar 2016 #50
He was given a pass for being senile ProudToBeBlueInRhody Mar 2016 #52
Reagan was suffering from dementia. Bush Sr. was in all likelihood the real President. jalan48 Mar 2016 #54
Abetting after the fact. In a Just world many people of both parties JEB Mar 2016 #60
He and a lot of his cabinet used the now famous "I can't recall" defense under questioning.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #61
Because they knew in advance to make sure he couldn't be. No one implicated him. L. Coyote Mar 2016 #62
When prosecutor Walsh (a Republican) realized how advanced Reagan's alzheimer's was he decided ... raindaddy Mar 2016 #64
Because then, as now, the dc dems are gutless appeasers. Every republican president since Nixon Doctor_J Mar 2016 #66
Adm. Poindexter and Plausible Deniability. WheelWalker Mar 2016 #67
Because the Democrtatic establishment did not want to. JHB Mar 2016 #68
Very disturbing gabeana Mar 2016 #80
IOKIYAR. pansypoo53219 Mar 2016 #69
In the nineties Dems did Thespian2 Mar 2016 #74
Can I mention a Joe Biden-chaired hearing in the 90s? Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2016 #83
Thanks Thespian2 Mar 2016 #86
He should have been HassleCat Mar 2016 #78
The Democratic Congress didn't exactly have much animosity towards Reagan. Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #82
Reagan DENIED KNOWING that the operation was going on, John Poet Mar 2016 #84
Open and shut case for high treason (which, not sorry Repubs, Iran-Contra very much was). HughBeaumont Mar 2016 #85
because the most powerful people in our government are NOT elected librechik Mar 2016 #89
they couldnt, everyone would have seen how far his dementia had progressed. Viva_La_Revolution Mar 2016 #90
Reagan in PRISON or even just convicted and pardoned wasn't Hortensis Mar 2016 #91
Democrats didn't want to put the country thru it. hollowdweller Apr 2016 #95
Duane “Dewey” Clarridge, convicted of lying to Congress about Iran Contra MinM Apr 2016 #96
Maybe they didn't feel they had the evidence treestar Apr 2016 #97
Democrats always seem to fold like cheap tents. Vinca Apr 2016 #98
If Reagan had been a Democrat you better believe that the avebury Apr 2016 #99
Some Democrats love Dutch just as much as Republicans do Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #100
One big reason was Oliver North deutsey Apr 2016 #104
...& his lawyer, Brendan Sullivan Octafish Apr 2016 #107
George Herbert Walker Bush. Octafish Apr 2016 #105
because they were no b******* involved. nt msanthrope Apr 2016 #108
There's no industry profit in blowjobs LadyHawkAZ Apr 2016 #111

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
1. It is a club, and you sure as hell are not part of it. But if you wanna feel really left
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:09 PM
Mar 2016

out and possibly harmed, sit out the election if Hillary is the nominee and watch what real hate can do if the GOP takes the WH.

gabeana

(3,166 posts)
3. Nah I will vote for Hillary
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:11 PM
Mar 2016

happily over a republicn, don't be so touchy
again why was Reagan not impeached, it is an honest question or do you think he should not have been impeached?

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
8. Impeached and jailed. But he wasnt because of that club you talk about, funny
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:13 PM
Mar 2016

though the club disappeared when Bill got his blow job.

Sorry to be sensitive, I just saw someone who I know will never vote for Hillary saying they will put country and it's people over party.

But not enough to save them from Trump.

 

billhicks76

(5,082 posts)
75. Because All Faith In Our System Would've Vanished
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:48 PM
Mar 2016

Because Bush Sr was coordinating shipments of cocaine by the tonnage while locking up kids for decades over grams. That's the goddamn truth. The lies would've unraveled all faith. And you can bet your ass Bill Clinton was allowing this through Arkansas and was Bush Sr's poodle.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
65. It is a club and RW Dems like Lee Hamilton are just as much a part as Reagan. Perhaps more.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:17 PM
Mar 2016

The only Republicans who ever really led the covert action boy club were super establishment types like GHW Bush who made it in as multi generational legacies. Otherwise, membership is open to anyone with talent and attitude who so totally lacks scruples they'll do anything. Like Hillary.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
76. Exactly. That's why he's the go-to guy for bipartisan whitewash.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:50 PM
Mar 2016

If Lee Hamilton were a Republican, he'd have no credibility. Like Hillary.

MinM

(2,650 posts)
93. George H. Walker Bush and the 1980 “October Surprise” Mystery
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:18 AM
Apr 2016
Taking their cue from the President, House Republicans threatened to block continued funding for the inquiry unless the Democrats agreed that Bush had not gone to Paris. Although Bush’s alibi for the key weekend of Oct. 18-19, 1980, was shaky, with details from his Secret Service logs withheld and with supposedly corroborating witnesses contradicting each other, the Democrats agreed to give Bush what he wanted.

After letting Bush off the hook on Paris, the inquiry stumbled along inconclusively with the White House withholding key documents and keeping some key witnesses, such as Bush’s former national security adviser Donald Gregg, out of reach.

Perhaps more importantly, the Casey-Madrid information from Beach’s memo was never shared with Congress, according to House Task Force Chairman Lee Hamilton, who I interviewed about the missing material in 2013.

Whatever interest Congress had in the October Surprise case faded even more after Bush lost the 1992 election to Bill Clinton. There was a palpable sense around Official Washington that it would be wrong to pile on the defeated President. The thinking was that Bush (and Reagan) should be allowed to ride off into the sunset with their legacies intact.

So, even as more incriminating evidence arrived at the House task force in December 1992 and in January 1993 – including testimony from French intelligence chief Alexander deMarenches’s biographer confirming the Paris meeting and a report from Russia’s duma revealing that Soviet intelligence had monitored the Republican-Iranian contacts in 1980 – it was all cast aside. The task force simply decided there was “no credible evidence” to support the October Surprise allegations.

Trusting the Suspect

Beyond the disinclination of Hamilton and his investigators to aggressively pursue important leads, they operated with the naïve notion that President Bush, who was a prime suspect in the October Surprise case, would compile and turn over evidence that would prove his guilt and seal his political fate. Power at that level simply doesn’t work that way.

After discovering the Beach memo, I emailed a copy to Hamilton and discussed it with him by phone. The retired Indiana Democratic congressman responded that his task force was never informed that the White House had confirmation of Casey’s trip to Madrid.

“We found no evidence to confirm Casey’s trip to Madrid,” Hamilton told me. “The [Bush-41] White House did not notify us that he did make the trip. Should they have passed that on to us? They should have because they knew we were interested in that.”

Asked if knowledge that Casey had traveled to Madrid might have changed the task force’s dismissive October Surprise conclusion, Hamilton said yes, because the question of the Madrid trip was key to the task force’s investigation.

“If the White House knew that Casey was there, they certainly should have shared it with us,” Hamilton said. Hamilton added that “you have to rely on people” in authority to comply with information requests.

Therein, of course, lay [font color=darkred]the failure of the October Surprise investigation[/font]. Hamilton and his team were counting on President Bush and his team to bring all the evidence together in one place and then share it with Congress, when they were more likely to burn it...

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/06/bush-41s-october-surprise-denials/

Tony_FLADEM

(3,023 posts)
2. Because Reagan went on television and confessed to trading arms for hostages
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:10 PM
Mar 2016

but he did so in a way that was sort of disarming.

He said I still believe we didn't trade arms for hostages but the facts tell me otherwise.

Tony_FLADEM

(3,023 posts)
12. That's how I preceive it.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:16 PM
Mar 2016

He confessed in an "aww shucks" kind of way and this made it easier for people to forgive him.

jhart3333

(332 posts)
70. My recollection is that he said he couldn't remember.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:34 PM
Mar 2016

Main reason though: Dems are not batshit crazy like the Repugs.

Dan

(3,524 posts)
77. Actually that was part of it
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 11:09 PM
Mar 2016

But it was also because Reagan was still relatively popular and the Dems didn't want the political flack. Later there was discussion (post Reagan years) and/or realization that Ronald wasn't all there.

kskiska

(27,041 posts)
94. There was discussion even while he was in office
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:25 AM
Apr 2016

that he wasn't all there. They'd say, "The lights are on, but no one's home."

Tony_FLADEM

(3,023 posts)
14. I didn't say I agreed with Reagan not being impeached for Iran Contra
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:19 PM
Mar 2016

I'm just telling you why people forgave him back then and the Democrats weren't able to impeach him.

If you did rob a bank and you did have good acting skills and it was your first offense, you probably could get some level of leniency.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
28. "My heart and my best intentions still tell me that is true. But the facts and the evidence
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:43 PM
Mar 2016

tell me that it is not."

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
57. Oliver North
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:51 PM
Mar 2016

wore the uniform of The United States to testify before congress, raised his hand, swore to tell the truth and proceeded to lie through the gap in his teeth. He disgraced and shamed himself. Better men have been dishonorably discharged for less.

yellowcanine

(35,692 posts)
102. Except he didn't admit to any wrongdoing. Not really.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:41 AM
Apr 2016

And he lied through his teeth about several things, such as how he spent some of the cash on himself. Most people would call that embezzlement but somehow he sold it as patriotism.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
63. No he didn't, he just said, "Good Gosh, I've just been informed ...."
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:14 PM
Mar 2016

"... by my attorney general who himself had no knowledge of any crimes that may have been committed, so we are going to find a scapegoat as soon as possible and then pardon him."

Oh wait, that last part is just what happened, not what he said.

Skittles

(152,965 posts)
81. disarming to anyone who was a fucking gullipble idiot
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:25 AM
Mar 2016

I saw through that corrupt bastard from day one

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
4. The Democrats were afraid to go after Saint Ronnie. At times Democrats can be craven.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:11 PM
Mar 2016

As is their usual mode of operation, they agreed to a republican demand that Saint Ronnie wouldn't be touched before the hearings even began. Biden was a part of that shameful episode.

gabeana

(3,166 posts)
11. Sorry don't know what BFEE means
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:15 PM
Mar 2016

also I see your avatar and sickens me that the racist piece of shit Reagan defeated an honorable man Carter

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
16. Bush Family Evil Empire
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:21 PM
Mar 2016

An old Internet moniker for those crooks.

Started by a beloved now deceased web site owner. Bartcop.

libtodeath

(2,888 posts)
17. Bush Family Evil Empire.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:23 PM
Mar 2016

One of Democratic Undergrounds most respected and intelligent members named Octafish has spent years tying all the threads of that evil family cabals deeds together.

blm

(112,920 posts)
46. People nowadays only view Poppy Bush as the better Bush - he was pure evil and
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:29 PM
Mar 2016

passed that evil down to the dictatortot.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
72. It's a family tradition dating back generations
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:37 PM
Mar 2016

Poppy's father Prescott traded with the Nazis and plotted to overthrow FDR but it was all swept under the rug "for the good of the country" . (A lot of stuff gets hidden from us for our "own good".)

Read "Family of Secrets" about the Bush family history.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
101. Poppy was good at hiding his evil ways.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:39 AM
Apr 2016

He knew how to keep his mouth shut. Trying to assassinate anyone who got close to the Truth scared a lot of people from speaking-up.

He also made an example of anyone who dared protest. People at CIA were very intimidated.

blm

(112,920 posts)
7. The media was uncomfortable with it - they knew then he was showing signs of serious
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:13 PM
Mar 2016

illness. Kerry was treated worse by the press for uncovering IranContra. And, IranContra was GHWBush's operation. I doubt Reagan knew even 10% of what was going on.

In fact, it was Bush's office who called Newsweek to force Robert Parry out of his job investigating IranContra. He was labeled a 'zealot'.

 

DemocracyDirect

(708 posts)
32. Precisely
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:48 PM
Mar 2016

George H W Bush was not out of the loop on Iran Contra. IMO he was in the center of the loop.

I wonder how much Bill Clinton knew about what was happening in Mena Arkansas where some have said the CIA was moving drugs for weapons during his Governorship.

blm

(112,920 posts)
43. Pretty sure the governor was told to look the other way -
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:22 PM
Mar 2016

and pretty sure that he did.

Most every governor would do the exact same thing if it was Poppy Bush making the demand.

 

DemocracyDirect

(708 posts)
59. Oh I see.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:05 PM
Mar 2016

So what did he mean when he said "They would hang us from the light posts if they knew what we did?"

Was that about Iran-Contra?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
79. No, it was for turning America into a plutocracy.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:20 AM
Mar 2016

That is why the GOP and media works hard daily to keep people misinformed about what really hurts our nation.

blm

(112,920 posts)
92. Took this nation off its path of citizen democracy and put it on the road towards full-on fascism.
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:41 PM
Mar 2016

That's all he did.

Boomerproud

(7,889 posts)
47. I"ve often wondered why Mena is the one part of Clinton's past that the most rabid Repubs wouldn't
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:31 PM
Mar 2016

touch. I believe the answer is that it would have led straight to Bush. Clinton wanted those Black Op $$$ coming into Arkansas. Another interesting story I've heard about Iran-Contra was about the downing of Pam Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988. The NYT reported that there were 5 CIA operatives on board who were on their way home from Beirut with specific knowledge of where the 7 hostages were being held. There were 2 operations regarding the hostages going on, one from Langley, the other from the White House with VP Bush in charge. The WH operation was undermining the "official" CIA op because the WH op was being funded by drug smuggling by Syrian terrorists out of the Frankfurt airport. That's why they had to pin it on Libya. The NYT only ran the story about the agents being on board once, and then dropped the story...why?

4nic8em

(482 posts)
35. **This**
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:51 PM
Mar 2016

I was no fan of Ronald Reagan but during the Iran/Contra hearings with Oliver North and Admiral Poindexter (both Reagan fall guys) they had Reagan on the stand and answered "I don't remember" about sixty times...It was obvious by that time he was very clearly suffering from dementia (Alzheimer's). I actually felt sorry for him being questioned, his mental health was clearly impaired. FWIW this is why Nancy Reagan started to support STEM cell research (to the wailing and gnashing of teeth from GOP).

blm

(112,920 posts)
44. and I think IranContra is one of the reasons she hated GHWBush so much.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:25 PM
Mar 2016

He was in charge and all his machinations ended up on Reagan's legacy, which was bad enough on its own, but, Bush's operations made it far worse.

mdbl

(4,972 posts)
58. His illness started way before that
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:54 PM
Mar 2016

It was evident in everything he said and did. He wouldn't even answer simple questions from the press before that. I thought it was because he didn't want to answer, now that I look back, he probably just couldn't.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. Because the investigations finished in 1987, and
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:14 PM
Mar 2016

the main indictments (ie. North) was in 1989.

Basically, the expectation was that Reagan would be out of office or nearly out of office by the time impeachment played out. Also, putting HW Bush in office early was seen as giving him an advantage in the 1988 election.

John1956PA

(2,654 posts)
15. At the time, one news correspondent opined that the U. S. populace "gave him a pass."
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:21 PM
Mar 2016

I can not recall which of the news networks the correspondent worked for. He might have made that remark in January 1989 in the course of his review of the events which occurred during the administration.




dogman

(6,073 posts)
20. Haven't you heard Chris Matthews talk about the good old days?
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:32 PM
Mar 2016

Days when Tip and Ron and the boys would break for cocktails after a hard day in Washington. The bipartisanship was just grand. Obama sure did his part, but not according to the GOPs. They had already discounted him.

1939

(1,683 posts)
27. Reagan got more from a Democratic congress
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:43 PM
Mar 2016

than Jimmy Carter ever got. Carter and JFK had real problems connecting with and working with congress.

UtahJosh

(131 posts)
87. Got more?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:28 AM
Mar 2016

What do you mean "got more"?

What exactly did Reagan get from a Democratic Congress? Specifically, I mean.

1939

(1,683 posts)
88. Two major income tax cuts specifically
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:33 AM
Mar 2016

The first when they reduced the top rate for all income to 50% and the second in 1986 when there was the great bipartisan "tax reform".

He got every thing he asked for defense.

GHWB had a much more difficult time with congress after Reagan.

muntrv

(14,505 posts)
21. Ford's pardon of Nixon for Watergate set the precedent.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:33 PM
Mar 2016

Repukes will not have to answer for their crimes.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
23. What I understand is they questioned him about it and he didn't know anything..this was
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:36 PM
Mar 2016

after his alzheimers was in full progress.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. Plausible deniability
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:37 PM
Mar 2016

Poindexter testified to Congress: "I made a deliberate decision not to ask the President, so that I could insulate him from the decision and provide some future deniability for the President if it ever leaked out."

1939

(1,683 posts)
25. Iran-Contra Hearings
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:40 PM
Mar 2016

The Democrats on the investigating committee immunized Admiral Poindexter in order to get the goods on Reagan.

Poindexter then testified that it was all his fault that Iran-Contra happened and that he had made the key decision on his own.

There was a loud sound of air escaping from the balloon and the committee was pretty much over. No implication of Reagan and the confessed "guilty party" had been granted complete immunization.

In the end, the major conviction was Ollie North spending a government travelers check in a Rite Aid.

Kingofalldems

(38,361 posts)
71. I thought one of the charges against North was perjury.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:34 PM
Mar 2016

I was wrong. The main charge seemed to be destruction of documents which he got out of.

StevieM

(10,499 posts)
34. Years later George W. Bush gave Poindexter a job in the War on Terror after 9/11
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:51 PM
Mar 2016

He was named Director of the DARPA Information Awareness Office.

And of course, Oliver North was run as the Republican candidate for Senate in Virginia in 1994.

It makes you wonder....did anyone do anything wrong in Iran-Contra, according to Republicans?

Mc Mike

(9,107 posts)
37. Right. Poindexter made sure the trail (apparently) ended with him, unlike the Watergate hearings,
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:02 PM
Mar 2016

which involved embattled and embittered underlings passing the buck all the way up to the Prez. And there were less moderate Repubs left in the House and Senate to step up and indict the repug Presidential Admin.

And the gop doubtless had learned what didn't work in Watergate, so had a playbook to work from that prevented the scandal from bringing down Raygun and Poppy, though the deserved impeachment and jail even more than Nixon.

1939

(1,683 posts)
38. Poindexter fell on his sword for Reagan
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:10 PM
Mar 2016

Except that the sword had no blade because of the full immunity given by the committee.

Mc Mike

(9,107 posts)
45. Their entire party is a bunch of slimy, sneaky felons, apparently.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:26 PM
Mar 2016

Even the Watergate investigation was a cover-up, but at least a lot of them got tossed out of power, and some even went to prison. But they got away clean with Iran-contra. It was 'the Watergate that Never Happened'.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
26. By that time the old man was already failing and it was
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:40 PM
Mar 2016

visible. So they blamed it on those who worked for him. And then let them go. Not to mention that between the media and the lies the Rs told people were still convinced that what they were telling us was true.

It took a long time after 1980 to get anyone to wake up.

csziggy

(34,120 posts)
42. Years ago I heard a NPR interview with Lawrence Walsh, the Independent Counsel
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:18 PM
Mar 2016

Who investigate Iran Contra. He said that when he interviewed Reagan he could tell that Reagan was failing mentally so there was really no point in prosecuting him. I think that interview was around 1997 when Walsh's book was released. Unfortunately I don't have a program that will play the format the old interview is in on the NPR web site - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1039548

A discussion when Walsh died - at the age of 102 - mentions how angry Walsh was when Geogre H. W. Bush pardoned the Iran Contra active people - http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=291999738&m=292008416

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
29. Short answer: Democrats too chickenshit.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 08:44 PM
Mar 2016

Which ties in to some of the other "club" observations here.

Though you'll notice that's never stopped Republicans.

Response to gabeana (Original post)

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
40. Because imbeciles believed his grandpa act that he "didn't know anything about it"
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:17 PM
Mar 2016

and he was very popular with the common American imbecile.

 

PeoViejo

(2,178 posts)
106. Actually, He didn't matter much in the equation.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 12:15 PM
Apr 2016

Let me tell you the true story of how Iran-Contra came about.

A CIA Officer who was involved with the Central America Task Force went to the CIA Inspector General with information about financial improprieties, regarding illegal payments to people of influence in Honduras. Bill Casey, being an Attorney of some experience, knew that
he could go to prison as a result. He panicked , and as a result, Poppy took the program away from CIA and gave it to Oliver North. The rest is History.

The Boys knew that Casey would likely crack and turn Stool Pigeon. There was no way, they were going to let that happen.

The CIA Officer knew that stopping the War in Central America was impossible. After all, Orders is Orders, but financial mis-dealings with Discretionary Funds was a Career-killer.
You ask me how I know this?: I was there and watched the whole thing go down from the inside.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
109. His grandpa act put a friendly face on the mafia that was running the country.
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 02:54 PM
Apr 2016

The pukes have been looking for another half-assed actor who could remember his lines ever since. It's a wonder they didn't recruit Wilford Brimley to run for president.

Solly Mack

(90,740 posts)
48. Some links to read
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:37 PM
Mar 2016
Political Oversight and the Rule of Law Walsh Report. Walsh was the special prosecutor for Iran-Contra.

Congressional action that precludes prosecution -- or, as in Iran/contra, that makes it impossible to sustain a successful prosecution -- imposes costs on society that far transcend the failure to convict a few lawbreakers. There is significant inequity when (again as in Iran/contra) the more peripheral players are convicted while the central figures in the criminal enterprise escape punishment. And perhaps more fundamentally, the failure to punish governmental lawbreakers feeds the perception that public officials are not wholly accountable for their actions. It also may lead the public to believe that no real wrongdoing took place. That is a danger in the Iran/contra affair, where Oliver North hailed the ultimate dismissal of the prosecution against him as a personal vindication. While it was, of course, nothing of the sort -- North was found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of serious criminal offenses, and the court of appeals' decision setting aside his conviction cast no doubt on his factual guilt -- the risk of public confusion on the point is substantial.



Concluding Observations from Walsh

The underlying facts of Iran/contra are that, regardless of criminality, President Reagan, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, and the director of central intelligence and their necessary assistants committed themselves, however reluctantly, to two programs contrary to congressional policy and contrary to national policy. They skirted the law, some of them broke the law, and almost all of them tried to cover up the President's willful activities.

What protection do the people of the United States have against such a concerted action by such powerful officers? The Constitution provides for congressional oversight and congressional control of appropriations, but if false information is given to Congress, these checks and balances are of lessened value. Further, in the give and take of the political community, congressional oversight is often overtaken and subordinated by the need to keep Government functioning, by the need to anticipate the future, and by the ever-present requirement of maintaining consensus among the elected officials who are the Government.

The disrespect for Congress by a popular and powerful President and his appointees was obscured when Congress accepted the tendered concept of a runaway conspiracy of subordinate officers and avoided the unpleasant confrontation with a powerful President and his Cabinet. In haste to display and conclude its investigation of this unwelcome issue, Congress destroyed the most effective lines of inquiry by giving immunity to Oliver L. North and John M. Poindexter so that they could exculpate and eliminate the need for the testimony of President Reagan and Vice President Bush.

Immunity is ordinarily given by a prosecutor to a witness who will incriminate someone more important than himself. Congress gave immunity to North and Poindexter, who incriminated only themselves and who largely exculpated those responsible for the initiation, supervision and support of their activities. This delayed and infinitely complicated the effort to prosecute North and Poindexter, and it largely destroyed the likelihood that their prompt conviction and appropriate sentence would induce meaningful cooperation.



About Congress - look up Dick Cheney's and Lee Hamilton's role.


1988 From the outset of the parallel Iran-contra investigations, no one doubted that the Congressional hearings involving the principal figures would make the task of the prosecutors in the criminal case more difficult, but only recently has the scope of those complications become apparent.

Early last year, the special prosecutor, Lawrence E. Walsh, tried to dissuade the lawmakers from giving the central figures any kind of immunity from prosecution. When that tack failed, he returned to the Capitol again and again to encourage the lawmakers to delay the immunity grants to give him time to build his case. Otherwise, he said, prosecutions might be impossible.

The Congressional investigative committees waited several months. But finally they voted unanimously to give a limited form of immunity to Oliver L. North, John M. Poindexter and Albert Hakim. Under the rules, the three men could be prosecuted on the basis of evidence gained independently of their testimony before the Congressional committees, but the testimony itself could not be used against them, directly or indirectly. Fears Are Realized

The three men had invoked their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Without immunity, they could not be compelled to testify before Congress. And, without their testimony, the lawmakers believed, the hearings would be incomplete and the story of the Iran-contra affair could not be told.

Now Mr. Walsh's fears have been realized.



Lochloosa

(16,019 posts)
49. Because William Casey, the person that authorized the weapons for hostages...
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:38 PM
Mar 2016

had an emergency operation the day before he was to testify before the committee investigating Iran/Contra. During the operation, to remove a brain tumor, nerves were damaged that left him unable to speak.



Most likely, he was the "link" in the chain that led to Raygun.

I always wondered how the CIA could give you a brain tumor on such short notice.

 

rtracey

(2,062 posts)
50. spell
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:39 PM
Mar 2016

Did you make an honest mistake, or did you arrogantly misspell President Obama's name on purpose. I hope it was just a mistake, because I do hope this party is not stooping to right wing bullshit tactics.

ProudToBeBlueInRhody

(16,399 posts)
52. He was given a pass for being senile
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:42 PM
Mar 2016

The Democrats felt they were going to beat George HW and didn't want to take the political risk.

jalan48

(13,798 posts)
54. Reagan was suffering from dementia. Bush Sr. was in all likelihood the real President.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 09:44 PM
Mar 2016

The war we waged in Central America was horrible-US trained death squads making sure that a small number of people controlled almost all of the land.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
60. Abetting after the fact. In a Just world many people of both parties
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:07 PM
Mar 2016

would be held to account.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
61. He and a lot of his cabinet used the now famous "I can't recall" defense under questioning....
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:09 PM
Mar 2016

This led to my saying:

It's ironic that the GOP uses an Elephant for their symbol because an elephant never forgets.

Unless it's under oath....

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
62. Because they knew in advance to make sure he couldn't be. No one implicated him.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:10 PM
Mar 2016

And then they got pardons for keeping quiet.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
64. When prosecutor Walsh (a Republican) realized how advanced Reagan's alzheimer's was he decided ...
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:16 PM
Mar 2016

against prosecuting him...

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
66. Because then, as now, the dc dems are gutless appeasers. Every republican president since Nixon
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:22 PM
Mar 2016

has committed treason, and yet none has been impeached.

JHB

(37,132 posts)
68. Because the Democrtatic establishment did not want to.
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:31 PM
Mar 2016

In the words of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY):

Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.), noting that he served in the Cabinet of Republican President Richard M. Nixon, urged President Reagan on Saturday to "clean house," saying, "This nation does not need and does not want another failed presidency."

Portraying the crisis over secret arms deals with Iran and clandestine payments to Nicaraguan rebels as transcending partisan politics, Moynihan told Reagan that "your presidency, sir, is tottering." And he added, "We want you to save your presidency, our presidency."

His remarks came in a dramatic response to Reagan's weekly radio address, which dealt only in passing with the crisis that has shaken his Administration like no other difficulty the President has faced.

"Out with all the facts, out with all the malefactors," Moynihan pleaded.

"Come to the Hill and talk, elected official to elected officials," he said. "We are your friends. We share this brief but sacred authority given us by the American people."
http://articles.latimes.com/1986-11-30/news/mn-483_1_white-house

These were people who were the proto-"centrists" who were uncomfortable that Nixon was forced to resign or face impeachment, and didn't want to have it happen again, even though crimes were worse.

Worse still, they quietly passed legislation making many of the things Reagan's people did legal.

John Kerry's investigations were continually marginalized by the Democratic leadership.

gabeana

(3,166 posts)
80. Very disturbing
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 01:07 AM
Mar 2016

but this is what I had read, that the country didn't want another President to resign so now we get the nations airport named after that asshole, thanks spineless dems

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
74. In the nineties Dems did
Sat Mar 26, 2016, 10:42 PM
Mar 2016

not go after the thugs in RayGuns administration because: 1. They didn't even share one good, straight, solid backbone. 2. George H. W. Bush pardoned potential convicts. 3. Since Dems suck bucks from the same pig-skin wallets, as the Repugs, treading on the toes of the same mega-donors who supported the "wonderful work of the contras and the GodOffalParty would have cost them money. And I am sure there were plenty of reasons to put RayGun in prison...Dems were afraid some of them could have to respond to charges to them.
Remember also that RayGun thought he was still doing scenes from the B-Movies...often awakening from a nap during a cabinet meeting to slug down some Jelly beans and began acting as though he was doing a scene from a movies...

Best summed up by Never kick a fire-ant hill while standing on it...

Big Dog was guilty of vacuuming up large amounts of money...

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
83. Can I mention a Joe Biden-chaired hearing in the 90s?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:55 AM
Mar 2016

The Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. Several women were scheduled to testify at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings that Mr. Thomas had sexually harassed them. Joe Biden was Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and only allowed Anita Hill to testify.

One more example of chickenshit, IMO.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
78. He should have been
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:06 AM
Mar 2016

It was the worst thing any preident has ever done. That we know about. He set up a secret government and funded it by stealing from the military.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
82. The Democratic Congress didn't exactly have much animosity towards Reagan.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:30 AM
Mar 2016

They worked with him to increase the Social Security retirement age, for example.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
84. Reagan DENIED KNOWING that the operation was going on,
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:25 AM
Mar 2016

and Democrats had no real proof that he DID know.

In the statements referred to upthread, Reagan "accepted responsibility" for it because it came out of his administration, but he denied knowing about it before it was outed in the press.

Then Oliver North took the ultimate fall for it.

The truth is, the whole damned operation was being directed out of Vice President Bush's office, but he claimed to be "out of the loop" and the press didn't do enough digging. (This still is never discussed in the mainstream press.)



HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
85. Open and shut case for high treason (which, not sorry Repubs, Iran-Contra very much was).
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:17 AM
Mar 2016

The centrist Dems, as usual, went along to get along.

Put a Democrat in Reagan's position, it'd be a scandal du jour, a media spectacle that would lead to yet another loser like Dubya becoming president. Look at how much hob Republicans make out of the relative molehills . . . you think they'd let that fly if high treason didn't happen under Reagan's watch?

But no . . . because he's TEH GRATE COMUNICATOR, he somehow gets a pass. Hey, let's name buildings after the despicable fucker.

librechik

(30,663 posts)
89. because the most powerful people in our government are NOT elected
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:41 AM
Mar 2016

They tell the elected ones what to do, where to go, who to make war with and what to say to them. It's the secret government, it's been in charge since at least the 40s and we can't get rid of them because they aren't elected and stay in power no matter who is president.

In the case of Iran Contra, Bush senior, a decades long member of the secret government, happened to be vice-president. He made sure the prosecution didn't happen, because it would have been him who was caught.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
91. Reagan in PRISON or even just convicted and pardoned wasn't
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:40 PM
Mar 2016

considered good for America, a majority of Americans did not want Reagan prosecuted, and Democrats believe in using the government to accomplish goals and this entire thing was a distraction from that. It wouldn't have stopped with a ritual impeachment. Reagan was guilty of very serious crimes. Prosecuting would only increase enmity between the parties at a time when things aren't anything like as bad as they are now. Instead a deal was reached wherein extremely well regarded Senator James Baker agreed to serve as Reagan's chief of staff, displacing Donald Regan, and give the White House a more proper direction. A pretty amazing thing when you think about it.

 

hollowdweller

(4,229 posts)
95. Democrats didn't want to put the country thru it.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 11:45 AM
Apr 2016


I'm not sure they would still...

However the GOP has become more crazy.

Once they had control during the Reagan years and then got Bush and had congress it made them crazy.

They view any democrat president elected as somehow illegitimate and impeachment is one of the tools to try to remove them.

I really worry about the country because of the GOP. Maybe this presidential election will break them and they will come back to caring about country more than party, but I'm not sure.

They've really preached a toxic combination of democrats being illegitimate, party over country, hatred of gov't and being armed in order not to defend yourself but to fight against the gov't and it's really dangerous to our country.

MinM

(2,650 posts)
96. Duane “Dewey” Clarridge, convicted of lying to Congress about Iran Contra
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:20 AM
Apr 2016

The "Save the Contras" posters were part of short-lived fund-raising campaign by college Republicans in 1985. It came to a halt after "Save the Children," which it was mimicking, complained. [Congress' Iran Contra Depositions, v. 22, 855]

In late 1983, Duane Clarridge, the agent in charge of the covert war, admitted in a closed briefing of the House Intelligence Committee staff that the contras had killed “civilians and Sandinista officials in the provinces, as well as heads of cooperatives, nurses, doctors, and judges.” “After all,” Clarridge reportedly reasoned, “this is a war.” ...

@trevortimm 7 hours ago

Trevor Timm Retweeted Jason Leopold

Duane R. Clarridge, Pardoned CIA Criminal, Who Created Terror Networks And Admitted To A War Crime, Dies at 83

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/11/us/duane-r-clarridge-brash-spy-who-fought-terror-dies-at-83.html



treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. Maybe they didn't feel they had the evidence
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:28 AM
Apr 2016

and they were not as vindictive in those days? Even the Republicans were not. This was pre-Rush Limbaugh times.

George Carlin can take his victims whining. We do have power. We merely don't use it because we don't vote in midterms or care about elections other than the Presidency. We have ourselves to blame and blaming others and pretending we are their victims is cowardly.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
98. Democrats always seem to fold like cheap tents.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:33 AM
Apr 2016

Reagan should have been impeached and George W. Bush should have been impeached. After the Iraq war lies we should have had a war crimes tribunal. Democrats in office have always held a delusional belief that they can "bridge the gap" if they don't rock the boat and hold Republicans accountable. They even maintain the position after Republicans go after them over and over again. It's something I've never understood, but it maybe it just goes back to wanting to keep their jobs. Me, me, me. Don't upset any voter who might keep you in office for another term. It's hard to distinguish between politics and prostitution sometimes.

avebury

(10,946 posts)
99. If Reagan had been a Democrat you better believe that the
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 07:38 AM
Apr 2016

Republicans would have impeached (or at least tried). They went after Bill Clinton.

The fact is that we cannot rely upon the Democrats to go after Republicans when they beak the law. The lesson that Democrats teach far too often is that actions do not have consequences and it ends up giving Republicans a free pass so often that they system is broken and not likely to be fixed. The ones who face the consequences are the masses.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
100. Some Democrats love Dutch just as much as Republicans do
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 09:32 AM
Apr 2016

They still sing his praises in obviously delusional ways to this day:

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
104. One big reason was Oliver North
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:36 AM
Apr 2016

and the way he and his lawyer turned the hearings into a PR circus that made North look like a Rambo-esque "hero."

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
107. ...& his lawyer, Brendan Sullivan
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 01:17 PM
Apr 2016


Ollie stared at Brooks and turned to whisper some question to his lawyer, Brendan Sullivan. Before they answered, Sen. Inouye, D-Hawaii, said questions like that were best answered in closed session. Here're a few more details, courtesy of Bartcop and ProRev:



News from Post-Constitutional America

PROGRESSIVE REVIEW, 1996 - The issue arose again during the Iran-Contra affair, but even in the wake of all the copy on that scandal, the public got little sense of how far some America's soldiers of fortune were willing to go to achieve their ends. When the Iran-Contra hearings came close to the matter, chair Senator Inouye backed swiftly away. Here is an excerpt from those hearings. Oliver North is at the witness table:

REP BROOKS: Colonel North, in your work at the NSC, were you not assigned, at one time, to work on plans for the continuity of government in the event of a major disaster?

BRENDAN SULLIVAN: Mr. Chairman?

SEN INOUYE: I believe that question touches upon a highly sensitive and classified area so may I request that you not touch on that.

REP BROOKS: I was particularly concerned, Mr. Chairman, because I read in Miami papers, and several others, that there had been a plan developed by that same agency, a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution. And I was deeply concerned about it and wondered if that was the area in which he had worked. I believe that it was and I wanted to get his confirmation.

SEN INOUYE; May I most respectfully request that that matter not be touched upon at this stage. If we wish to get into this, I'm certain arrangements can be made for an executive session

With few exceptions, the media ignored what well could be the most startling revelation to have come out of the Iran/Contra affair, namely that high officials of the US government were planning a possible military/civilian coup. First among the exceptions was the Miami Herald, which on July 5, 1987, ran the story to which Jack Brooks referred. The article, by Alfonzo Chardy, revealed Oliver North's involvement in plans for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to take over federal, state and local functions during an ill-defined national emergency.

According to Chardy, the plan called for 'suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to the Federal Management Agency, emergency appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and declaration of martial law.' The proposal appears to have forgotten that Congress, legislatures and the judiciary even existed.

CONTINUED...

http://prorev.com/coup.htm



Jack Brooks also was a leading light investigating the Inslaw-PROMIS affair.



A Primer on INSLAW

This primer has been collated and provided as a courtesy by Brian Wright. (Thank you.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:
NEWS RELEASE
August 11, 1992
U.S. House of Representatives, Committee on the Judiciary

Jack Brooks, Texas, Chairman

JUDICIARY COMMITTEE REPORT CALLS FOR INDEPENDENT COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE THE INSLAW CONTROVERSY

The ("INSLAW Affair&quot report concludes that there appears to be strong evidence, as indicated by the findings of two Federal court proceedings, as well as by the Committee investigation, that the Department of Justice "acted willfully and fraudulently," and "took, converted and stole," INSLAW's Enhanced PROMIS by "trickery, fraud and deceit." The report finds that these actions against INSLAW were implemented through the Project Manager from the beginning of the contract and under the direction of high-level Justice Department officials. The evidence presented in the report demonstrates that high-level Department officials deliberately ignored INSLAW's proprietary rights and misappropriated its PROMIS software for use at locations not covered under contract with the company. Justice then proceeded to challenge INSLAW's claims in court even though its own internal deliberations had concluded that these claims were valid and that the Department would most likely lose in court on this issue.

According to the report, the second phase of the Committee's investigation concentrated on the allegations that high-level officials at the Department of Justice conspired to drive INSLAW into insolvency and steal PROMIS. In this regard, the report states that several individuals testified under oath that INSLAW's PROMIS software was stolen and distributed internationally in order to provide financial gain to associates of Justice Department officials and to further intelligence and foreign policy objectives of the United States. Additional corroborating evidence was uncovered by the Committee which substantiated to varying degrees the information provided by these individuals.

(Chairman) Brooks stated, "Although (the Department of Justice was) faced with a growing body of evidence that serious wrongdoing had occurred which reached to the highest levels of the Department, both Attorney General Meese and Thornburgh ignored these findings of two Federal courts and refused to seek the appointment of an Independent Counsel."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:

"Summer Of the Octopus"

WASHINGTON POST
by Mary McGrory
August 18, 1991


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Danny Casolaro) had been investigating the Inslaw case, a tangled affair of government perfidy and international intrigue that has been in litigation since 1983. In his explorations, he found out about possibly related scandals -- BCCI, S&Ls, Iran-contra, the "October surprise" -- but until two weeks ago, he had found nothing about Inslaw. Then, he joyfully told friends, he hit bingo. One more interview and the case was cracked.
Suicides do not tell their intimates within days of taking the hemlock that they are "ecstatic" or "euphoric." Casolaro did. Nor do they attend family birthday parties, as Danny Casolaro was planning to do hours before he died. The last known call was to his mother in Fairfax (VA). He told her he was on Interstate 81 in Pennsylvania. He would be late, but he was headed home. A manic-depressive might then kill himself. Nobody ever suggested Danny Casolaro was one.

Although the case involves the alleged theft of computer software by the Justice Department in the time of Ed Meese, Thornburgh took it to his bosom. Bill Hamilton, a perfectly nice midwesterner who owned a Washington firm called Inslaw, had invented Promis, a software especially adapted to crime statistics, which he sold to Justice. The second year, Justice stopped making payments. Hamilton and his wife, Nancy, believe that cronies of Meese were given the franchise to sell around the world. Promis has turned up in Canada and Pakistan. Thelink with the "October surprise" is Earl Brian, a former Reagan political associate who allegedly paid off Iranians to keep the hostages until after the 1980 election -- and allegedly was paid off himself with huge profits from Promis.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:

"The Inslaw Octopus"

by Richard L. Fricker
WIRED

But the real power of PROMIS, according to Hamilton, is that with a staggering 570,000 lines of computer code, PROMIS can integrate innumerable databases without requiring any reprogramming. In essence, PROMIS can turn blind data into information. And anyone in government will tell you that information, when wielded with finesse, begets power. Converted to use by intelligence agencies, as has been alleged in interviews by ex-CIA and Israeli Mossad agents, PROMIS can be a powerful tracking device capable of monitoring intelligence operations, agents and targets, instead of legal cases.

Apparently, Israel was not the only country interested in using PROMIS for internal security purposes, Lt. Col. Oliver North also may have been using the program. According to several intelligence community sources, PROMIS was in use at a 6,100 square-foot command center built on the sixth floor of the Justice Department. According to both a contractor who helped design the center and information disclosed during the Iran-contra hearings, Oliver North had a similar, but smaller, White House operations room that was connected by computer link to the DOJ's command center,

Using the computers in the command center, North tracked dissidents and potential troublemakers within the United States as part of a domestic emergency preparedness program, commissioned under Reagan's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), according to sources and published reports. Using PROMIS, sources point out, North could have drawn up lists of anyone ever arrested for a political protest, for example, or anyone who had ever refused to pay their taxes. Compared to PROMIS, Richard Nixon's enemies lists or Sen. Joe McCarthy's blacklist look downright crude. The operation was so sensitive that when Rep. Jack Brooks asked North about it during the Iran-contra hearings, the hearing was immediately suspended pending an executive (secret) conference. When the hearings were reconvened, the issue of North's FEMA dealings was dropped.

Freelance reporter Danny Casolaro spent the last few years of his life investigating a pattern which he called "The Octopus." According to Casolaro, Inslaw was only part of a greater story of how intelligence agencies, the Department of Justice and even the mob had subverted the government and its various functions for their own profit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpt from:

"The Dirtiest Bank of All"

by Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne
TIME
July 29, 1991

The more conventional departments of B.C.C.I. (Bank of Credit and Commerce International) handled such services as laundering money for the drug trade and helping dictators loot their national treasuries. The black network, which is still functioning, operates a lucrative arms-trade business and transports drugs and gold. According to investigators and participants in those operations, it often works with Western and Middle Eastern intelligence agencies. The strange and still murky ties between B.C.C.I. and the intelligence agencies of several countries are so pervasive that even the White House has become entangled. As TIME reported earlier this month, the National Security Council used B.C.C.I. to funnel money for the Iran-contra deals, and the CIA maintained accounts in B.C.C.I. for covert operations. Moreover, investigators have told TIME that the Defense Intelligence Agency has maintained a slush-fund account with B.C.C.I. apparently to pay for clandestine activities.
But the CIA may have used B.C.C.I. as more than an undercover banker: U.S. agents collaborated with the black network in several operations, according to a B.C.C.I. black-network "officer" who is now a secret U.S. government witness. Sources have told investigators that B.C.C.I. worked closely with Israel's spy agencies and other Western intelligence groups as well, especially in arms deals.

---a bookstore for democracy ---

http://www.copi.com/articles/inslaw_primer.htm



Mr. Brooks was a great man and a great Democrat. Like you are, deutsey!

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
105. George Herbert Walker Bush.
Mon Apr 11, 2016, 10:50 AM
Apr 2016


George Bush Takes Charge: The Uses of ‘Counter-Terrorism’

By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58

A paper trail of declassified documents from the Reagan‑Bush era yields valuable information on how counter‑terrorism provided a powerful mechanism for solidifying Bush's power base and launching a broad range of national security initiatives.

During the Reagan years, George Bush used "crisis management" and "counter‑terrorism" as vehicles for running key parts of the clandestine side of the US government.

Bush proved especially adept at plausible denial. Some measure of his skill in avoiding responsibility can be taken from the fact that even after the Iran‑Contra affair blew the Reagan administration apart, Bush went on to become the "foreign policy president," while CIA Director William Casey, by then conveniently dead, took most of the blame for a number of covert foreign policy debacles that Bush had set in motion.

The trail of National Security Decision Directives (NSDDS) left by the Reagan administration begins to tell the story. True, much remains classified, and still more was never committed to paper in the first place. Even so, the main picture is clear: As vice president, George Bush was at the center of secret wars, political murders, and America's convoluted oil politics in the Middle East.

SNIP...

Reagan and the NSC also used NSDDs to settle conflicts among security agencies over bureaucratic turf and lines of command. It is through that prism that we see the first glimmers of Vice President Bush's role in clandestine operations during the 1980s.

SNIP...

NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985

The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.

[font color="green"]The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.

The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.

Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified.
[/font color] The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.

CONTINUED...

CovertAction Quarterly no 58 Fall 1996 pp31-40.


Then, Poppy Bush pardoned his fellow conspirators.

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)
111. There's no industry profit in blowjobs
Tue Apr 12, 2016, 04:47 PM
Apr 2016

Generally speaking, you can't destabilize an area with them either.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why was Reagan not impeac...