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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy was Reagan not impeached for Iran Contra?
Dem's were in control of both houses
that is the problem with the establishment of the party, as George Carlin said it is a club we are not a part of and never will be
and Hillary for Dems like me see her as representing that club
just like the Bush cabal Oabma didn't even try to touch
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)out and possibly harmed, sit out the election if Hillary is the nominee and watch what real hate can do if the GOP takes the WH.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)happily over a republicn, don't be so touchy
again why was Reagan not impeached, it is an honest question or do you think he should not have been impeached?
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)though the club disappeared when Bill got his blow job.
Sorry to be sensitive, I just saw someone who I know will never vote for Hillary saying they will put country and it's people over party.
But not enough to save them from Trump.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)I will vote for Hillary, I want the Republican Party to die
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)Because Bush Sr was coordinating shipments of cocaine by the tonnage while locking up kids for decades over grams. That's the goddamn truth. The lies would've unraveled all faith. And you can bet your ass Bill Clinton was allowing this through Arkansas and was Bush Sr's poodle.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)The only Republicans who ever really led the covert action boy club were super establishment types like GHW Bush who made it in as multi generational legacies. Otherwise, membership is open to anyone with talent and attitude who so totally lacks scruples they'll do anything. Like Hillary.
MinM
(2,650 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)If Lee Hamilton were a Republican, he'd have no credibility. Like Hillary.
MinM
(2,650 posts)After letting Bush off the hook on Paris, the inquiry stumbled along inconclusively with the White House withholding key documents and keeping some key witnesses, such as Bushs former national security adviser Donald Gregg, out of reach.
Perhaps more importantly, the Casey-Madrid information from Beachs memo was never shared with Congress, according to House Task Force Chairman Lee Hamilton, who I interviewed about the missing material in 2013.
Whatever interest Congress had in the October Surprise case faded even more after Bush lost the 1992 election to Bill Clinton. There was a palpable sense around Official Washington that it would be wrong to pile on the defeated President. The thinking was that Bush (and Reagan) should be allowed to ride off into the sunset with their legacies intact.
So, even as more incriminating evidence arrived at the House task force in December 1992 and in January 1993 including testimony from French intelligence chief Alexander deMarenchess biographer confirming the Paris meeting and a report from Russias duma revealing that Soviet intelligence had monitored the Republican-Iranian contacts in 1980 it was all cast aside. The task force simply decided there was no credible evidence to support the October Surprise allegations.
Trusting the Suspect
Beyond the disinclination of Hamilton and his investigators to aggressively pursue important leads, they operated with the naïve notion that President Bush, who was a prime suspect in the October Surprise case, would compile and turn over evidence that would prove his guilt and seal his political fate. Power at that level simply doesnt work that way.
After discovering the Beach memo, I emailed a copy to Hamilton and discussed it with him by phone. The retired Indiana Democratic congressman responded that his task force was never informed that the White House had confirmation of Caseys trip to Madrid.
We found no evidence to confirm Caseys trip to Madrid, Hamilton told me. The [Bush-41] White House did not notify us that he did make the trip. Should they have passed that on to us? They should have because they knew we were interested in that.
Asked if knowledge that Casey had traveled to Madrid might have changed the task forces dismissive October Surprise conclusion, Hamilton said yes, because the question of the Madrid trip was key to the task forces investigation.
If the White House knew that Casey was there, they certainly should have shared it with us, Hamilton said. Hamilton added that you have to rely on people in authority to comply with information requests.
Therein, of course, lay [font color=darkred]the failure of the October Surprise investigation[/font]. Hamilton and his team were counting on President Bush and his team to bring all the evidence together in one place and then share it with Congress, when they were more likely to burn it...
https://consortiumnews.com/2016/04/06/bush-41s-october-surprise-denials/
Tony_FLADEM
(3,023 posts)but he did so in a way that was sort of disarming.
He said I still believe we didn't trade arms for hostages but the facts tell me otherwise.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)that is the reason? So the American people felt sorry for him
Tony_FLADEM
(3,023 posts)He confessed in an "aww shucks" kind of way and this made it easier for people to forgive him.
jhart3333
(332 posts)Main reason though: Dems are not batshit crazy like the Repugs.
Dan
(3,524 posts)But it was also because Reagan was still relatively popular and the Dems didn't want the political flack. Later there was discussion (post Reagan years) and/or realization that Ronald wasn't all there.
kskiska
(27,041 posts)that he wasn't all there. They'd say, "The lights are on, but no one's home."
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)Tony_FLADEM
(3,023 posts)I'm just telling you why people forgave him back then and the Democrats weren't able to impeach him.
If you did rob a bank and you did have good acting skills and it was your first offense, you probably could get some level of leniency.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)tell me that it is not."
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)wore the uniform of The United States to testify before congress, raised his hand, swore to tell the truth and proceeded to lie through the gap in his teeth. He disgraced and shamed himself. Better men have been dishonorably discharged for less.
yellowcanine
(35,692 posts)And he lied through his teeth about several things, such as how he spent some of the cash on himself. Most people would call that embezzlement but somehow he sold it as patriotism.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)"... by my attorney general who himself had no knowledge of any crimes that may have been committed, so we are going to find a scapegoat as soon as possible and then pardon him."
Oh wait, that last part is just what happened, not what he said.
Skittles
(152,965 posts)I saw through that corrupt bastard from day one
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)As is their usual mode of operation, they agreed to a republican demand that Saint Ronnie wouldn't be touched before the hearings even began. Biden was a part of that shameful episode.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)gabeana
(3,166 posts)also I see your avatar and sickens me that the racist piece of shit Reagan defeated an honorable man Carter
grasswire
(50,130 posts)An old Internet moniker for those crooks.
Started by a beloved now deceased web site owner. Bartcop.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)One of Democratic Undergrounds most respected and intelligent members named Octafish has spent years tying all the threads of that evil family cabals deeds together.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)blm
(112,920 posts)passed that evil down to the dictatortot.
dflprincess
(28,057 posts)Poppy's father Prescott traded with the Nazis and plotted to overthrow FDR but it was all swept under the rug "for the good of the country" . (A lot of stuff gets hidden from us for our "own good".)
Read "Family of Secrets" about the Bush family history.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)He knew how to keep his mouth shut. Trying to assassinate anyone who got close to the Truth scared a lot of people from speaking-up.
He also made an example of anyone who dared protest. People at CIA were very intimidated.
blm
(112,920 posts)illness. Kerry was treated worse by the press for uncovering IranContra. And, IranContra was GHWBush's operation. I doubt Reagan knew even 10% of what was going on.
In fact, it was Bush's office who called Newsweek to force Robert Parry out of his job investigating IranContra. He was labeled a 'zealot'.
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)George H W Bush was not out of the loop on Iran Contra. IMO he was in the center of the loop.
I wonder how much Bill Clinton knew about what was happening in Mena Arkansas where some have said the CIA was moving drugs for weapons during his Governorship.
blm
(112,920 posts)and pretty sure that he did.
Most every governor would do the exact same thing if it was Poppy Bush making the demand.
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)Does it mean father?
blm
(112,920 posts).
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)Why would an oil man from Texas be called after a Poppy flower/opium plant?
blm
(112,920 posts).
DemocracyDirect
(708 posts)So what did he mean when he said "They would hang us from the light posts if they knew what we did?"
Was that about Iran-Contra?
Rex
(65,616 posts)That is why the GOP and media works hard daily to keep people misinformed about what really hurts our nation.
blm
(112,920 posts)That's all he did.
Boomerproud
(7,889 posts)touch. I believe the answer is that it would have led straight to Bush. Clinton wanted those Black Op $$$ coming into Arkansas. Another interesting story I've heard about Iran-Contra was about the downing of Pam Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988. The NYT reported that there were 5 CIA operatives on board who were on their way home from Beirut with specific knowledge of where the 7 hostages were being held. There were 2 operations regarding the hostages going on, one from Langley, the other from the White House with VP Bush in charge. The WH operation was undermining the "official" CIA op because the WH op was being funded by drug smuggling by Syrian terrorists out of the Frankfurt airport. That's why they had to pin it on Libya. The NYT only ran the story about the agents being on board once, and then dropped the story...why?
I was no fan of Ronald Reagan but during the Iran/Contra hearings with Oliver North and Admiral Poindexter (both Reagan fall guys) they had Reagan on the stand and answered "I don't remember" about sixty times...It was obvious by that time he was very clearly suffering from dementia (Alzheimer's). I actually felt sorry for him being questioned, his mental health was clearly impaired. FWIW this is why Nancy Reagan started to support STEM cell research (to the wailing and gnashing of teeth from GOP).
blm
(112,920 posts)He was in charge and all his machinations ended up on Reagan's legacy, which was bad enough on its own, but, Bush's operations made it far worse.
mdbl
(4,972 posts)It was evident in everything he said and did. He wouldn't even answer simple questions from the press before that. I thought it was because he didn't want to answer, now that I look back, he probably just couldn't.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)the main indictments (ie. North) was in 1989.
Basically, the expectation was that Reagan would be out of office or nearly out of office by the time impeachment played out. Also, putting HW Bush in office early was seen as giving him an advantage in the 1988 election.
John1956PA
(2,654 posts)I can not recall which of the news networks the correspondent worked for. He might have made that remark in January 1989 in the course of his review of the events which occurred during the administration.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Wouldn't surprise me. Follow the money.
dogman
(6,073 posts)Days when Tip and Ron and the boys would break for cocktails after a hard day in Washington. The bipartisanship was just grand. Obama sure did his part, but not according to the GOPs. They had already discounted him.
1939
(1,683 posts)than Jimmy Carter ever got. Carter and JFK had real problems connecting with and working with congress.
What do you mean "got more"?
What exactly did Reagan get from a Democratic Congress? Specifically, I mean.
1939
(1,683 posts)The first when they reduced the top rate for all income to 50% and the second in 1986 when there was the great bipartisan "tax reform".
He got every thing he asked for defense.
GHWB had a much more difficult time with congress after Reagan.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)Repukes will not have to answer for their crimes.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)shraby
(21,946 posts)after his alzheimers was in full progress.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Poindexter testified to Congress: "I made a deliberate decision not to ask the President, so that I could insulate him from the decision and provide some future deniability for the President if it ever leaked out."
1939
(1,683 posts)The Democrats on the investigating committee immunized Admiral Poindexter in order to get the goods on Reagan.
Poindexter then testified that it was all his fault that Iran-Contra happened and that he had made the key decision on his own.
There was a loud sound of air escaping from the balloon and the committee was pretty much over. No implication of Reagan and the confessed "guilty party" had been granted complete immunization.
In the end, the major conviction was Ollie North spending a government travelers check in a Rite Aid.
Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)1939
(1,683 posts)Kingofalldems
(38,361 posts)I was wrong. The main charge seemed to be destruction of documents which he got out of.
StevieM
(10,499 posts)He was named Director of the DARPA Information Awareness Office.
And of course, Oliver North was run as the Republican candidate for Senate in Virginia in 1994.
It makes you wonder....did anyone do anything wrong in Iran-Contra, according to Republicans?
Mc Mike
(9,107 posts)which involved embattled and embittered underlings passing the buck all the way up to the Prez. And there were less moderate Repubs left in the House and Senate to step up and indict the repug Presidential Admin.
And the gop doubtless had learned what didn't work in Watergate, so had a playbook to work from that prevented the scandal from bringing down Raygun and Poppy, though the deserved impeachment and jail even more than Nixon.
1939
(1,683 posts)Except that the sword had no blade because of the full immunity given by the committee.
Mc Mike
(9,107 posts)Even the Watergate investigation was a cover-up, but at least a lot of them got tossed out of power, and some even went to prison. But they got away clean with Iran-contra. It was 'the Watergate that Never Happened'.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)visible. So they blamed it on those who worked for him. And then let them go. Not to mention that between the media and the lies the Rs told people were still convinced that what they were telling us was true.
It took a long time after 1980 to get anyone to wake up.
csziggy
(34,120 posts)Who investigate Iran Contra. He said that when he interviewed Reagan he could tell that Reagan was failing mentally so there was really no point in prosecuting him. I think that interview was around 1997 when Walsh's book was released. Unfortunately I don't have a program that will play the format the old interview is in on the NPR web site - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1039548
A discussion when Walsh died - at the age of 102 - mentions how angry Walsh was when Geogre H. W. Bush pardoned the Iran Contra active people - http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=291999738&m=292008416
villager
(26,001 posts)Which ties in to some of the other "club" observations here.
Though you'll notice that's never stopped Republicans.
Response to gabeana (Original post)
cyberpj This message was self-deleted by its author.
struggle4progress
(118,041 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)and he was very popular with the common American imbecile.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)Let me tell you the true story of how Iran-Contra came about.
A CIA Officer who was involved with the Central America Task Force went to the CIA Inspector General with information about financial improprieties, regarding illegal payments to people of influence in Honduras. Bill Casey, being an Attorney of some experience, knew that
he could go to prison as a result. He panicked , and as a result, Poppy took the program away from CIA and gave it to Oliver North. The rest is History.
The Boys knew that Casey would likely crack and turn Stool Pigeon. There was no way, they were going to let that happen.
The CIA Officer knew that stopping the War in Central America was impossible. After all, Orders is Orders, but financial mis-dealings with Discretionary Funds was a Career-killer.
You ask me how I know this?: I was there and watched the whole thing go down from the inside.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)The pukes have been looking for another half-assed actor who could remember his lines ever since. It's a wonder they didn't recruit Wilford Brimley to run for president.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)The Chimp with a Phonak in his ear to get instructions from his handlers.
liberal N proud
(60,302 posts)Solly Mack
(90,740 posts)The underlying facts of Iran/contra are that, regardless of criminality, President Reagan, the secretary of state, the secretary of defense, and the director of central intelligence and their necessary assistants committed themselves, however reluctantly, to two programs contrary to congressional policy and contrary to national policy. They skirted the law, some of them broke the law, and almost all of them tried to cover up the President's willful activities.
What protection do the people of the United States have against such a concerted action by such powerful officers? The Constitution provides for congressional oversight and congressional control of appropriations, but if false information is given to Congress, these checks and balances are of lessened value. Further, in the give and take of the political community, congressional oversight is often overtaken and subordinated by the need to keep Government functioning, by the need to anticipate the future, and by the ever-present requirement of maintaining consensus among the elected officials who are the Government.
The disrespect for Congress by a popular and powerful President and his appointees was obscured when Congress accepted the tendered concept of a runaway conspiracy of subordinate officers and avoided the unpleasant confrontation with a powerful President and his Cabinet. In haste to display and conclude its investigation of this unwelcome issue, Congress destroyed the most effective lines of inquiry by giving immunity to Oliver L. North and John M. Poindexter so that they could exculpate and eliminate the need for the testimony of President Reagan and Vice President Bush.
Immunity is ordinarily given by a prosecutor to a witness who will incriminate someone more important than himself. Congress gave immunity to North and Poindexter, who incriminated only themselves and who largely exculpated those responsible for the initiation, supervision and support of their activities. This delayed and infinitely complicated the effort to prosecute North and Poindexter, and it largely destroyed the likelihood that their prompt conviction and appropriate sentence would induce meaningful cooperation.
About Congress - look up Dick Cheney's and Lee Hamilton's role.
Early last year, the special prosecutor, Lawrence E. Walsh, tried to dissuade the lawmakers from giving the central figures any kind of immunity from prosecution. When that tack failed, he returned to the Capitol again and again to encourage the lawmakers to delay the immunity grants to give him time to build his case. Otherwise, he said, prosecutions might be impossible.
The Congressional investigative committees waited several months. But finally they voted unanimously to give a limited form of immunity to Oliver L. North, John M. Poindexter and Albert Hakim. Under the rules, the three men could be prosecuted on the basis of evidence gained independently of their testimony before the Congressional committees, but the testimony itself could not be used against them, directly or indirectly. Fears Are Realized
The three men had invoked their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. Without immunity, they could not be compelled to testify before Congress. And, without their testimony, the lawmakers believed, the hearings would be incomplete and the story of the Iran-contra affair could not be told.
Now Mr. Walsh's fears have been realized.
Lochloosa
(16,019 posts)had an emergency operation the day before he was to testify before the committee investigating Iran/Contra. During the operation, to remove a brain tumor, nerves were damaged that left him unable to speak.
Most likely, he was the "link" in the chain that led to Raygun.
I always wondered how the CIA could give you a brain tumor on such short notice.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)CIA developed many ways to kill people.
CIA became interested in this research early-on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Did you make an honest mistake, or did you arrogantly misspell President Obama's name on purpose. I hope it was just a mistake, because I do hope this party is not stooping to right wing bullshit tactics.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)The Democrats felt they were going to beat George HW and didn't want to take the political risk.
jalan48
(13,798 posts)The war we waged in Central America was horrible-US trained death squads making sure that a small number of people controlled almost all of the land.
JEB
(4,748 posts)would be held to account.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)This led to my saying:
Unless it's under oath....
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)And then they got pardons for keeping quiet.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)against prosecuting him...
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)has committed treason, and yet none has been impeached.
WheelWalker
(8,943 posts)JHB
(37,132 posts)In the words of Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY):
Portraying the crisis over secret arms deals with Iran and clandestine payments to Nicaraguan rebels as transcending partisan politics, Moynihan told Reagan that "your presidency, sir, is tottering." And he added, "We want you to save your presidency, our presidency."
His remarks came in a dramatic response to Reagan's weekly radio address, which dealt only in passing with the crisis that has shaken his Administration like no other difficulty the President has faced.
"Out with all the facts, out with all the malefactors," Moynihan pleaded.
"Come to the Hill and talk, elected official to elected officials," he said. "We are your friends. We share this brief but sacred authority given us by the American people."
These were people who were the proto-"centrists" who were uncomfortable that Nixon was forced to resign or face impeachment, and didn't want to have it happen again, even though crimes were worse.
Worse still, they quietly passed legislation making many of the things Reagan's people did legal.
John Kerry's investigations were continually marginalized by the Democratic leadership.
gabeana
(3,166 posts)but this is what I had read, that the country didn't want another President to resign so now we get the nations airport named after that asshole, thanks spineless dems
pansypoo53219
(20,906 posts)Thespian2
(2,741 posts)not go after the thugs in RayGuns administration because: 1. They didn't even share one good, straight, solid backbone. 2. George H. W. Bush pardoned potential convicts. 3. Since Dems suck bucks from the same pig-skin wallets, as the Repugs, treading on the toes of the same mega-donors who supported the "wonderful work of the contras and the GodOffalParty would have cost them money. And I am sure there were plenty of reasons to put RayGun in prison...Dems were afraid some of them could have to respond to charges to them.
Remember also that RayGun thought he was still doing scenes from the B-Movies...often awakening from a nap during a cabinet meeting to slug down some Jelly beans and began acting as though he was doing a scene from a movies...
Best summed up by Never kick a fire-ant hill while standing on it...
Big Dog was guilty of vacuuming up large amounts of money...
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)The Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. Several women were scheduled to testify at the Senate Judiciary Committee hearings that Mr. Thomas had sexually harassed them. Joe Biden was Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and only allowed Anita Hill to testify.
One more example of chickenshit, IMO.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)I didn't remember that...
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)It was the worst thing any preident has ever done. That we know about. He set up a secret government and funded it by stealing from the military.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)They worked with him to increase the Social Security retirement age, for example.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)and Democrats had no real proof that he DID know.
In the statements referred to upthread, Reagan "accepted responsibility" for it because it came out of his administration, but he denied knowing about it before it was outed in the press.
Then Oliver North took the ultimate fall for it.
The truth is, the whole damned operation was being directed out of Vice President Bush's office, but he claimed to be "out of the loop" and the press didn't do enough digging. (This still is never discussed in the mainstream press.)
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The centrist Dems, as usual, went along to get along.
Put a Democrat in Reagan's position, it'd be a scandal du jour, a media spectacle that would lead to yet another loser like Dubya becoming president. Look at how much hob Republicans make out of the relative molehills . . . you think they'd let that fly if high treason didn't happen under Reagan's watch?
But no . . . because he's TEH GRATE COMUNICATOR, he somehow gets a pass. Hey, let's name buildings after the despicable fucker.
librechik
(30,663 posts)They tell the elected ones what to do, where to go, who to make war with and what to say to them. It's the secret government, it's been in charge since at least the 40s and we can't get rid of them because they aren't elected and stay in power no matter who is president.
In the case of Iran Contra, Bush senior, a decades long member of the secret government, happened to be vice-president. He made sure the prosecution didn't happen, because it would have been him who was caught.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)considered good for America, a majority of Americans did not want Reagan prosecuted, and Democrats believe in using the government to accomplish goals and this entire thing was a distraction from that. It wouldn't have stopped with a ritual impeachment. Reagan was guilty of very serious crimes. Prosecuting would only increase enmity between the parties at a time when things aren't anything like as bad as they are now. Instead a deal was reached wherein extremely well regarded Senator James Baker agreed to serve as Reagan's chief of staff, displacing Donald Regan, and give the White House a more proper direction. A pretty amazing thing when you think about it.
hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)I'm not sure they would still...
However the GOP has become more crazy.
Once they had control during the Reagan years and then got Bush and had congress it made them crazy.
They view any democrat president elected as somehow illegitimate and impeachment is one of the tools to try to remove them.
I really worry about the country because of the GOP. Maybe this presidential election will break them and they will come back to caring about country more than party, but I'm not sure.
They've really preached a toxic combination of democrats being illegitimate, party over country, hatred of gov't and being armed in order not to defend yourself but to fight against the gov't and it's really dangerous to our country.
MinM
(2,650 posts)The "Save the Contras" posters were part of short-lived fund-raising campaign by college Republicans in 1985. It came to a halt after "Save the Children," which it was mimicking, complained. [Congress' Iran Contra Depositions, v. 22, 855]
In late 1983, Duane Clarridge, the agent in charge of the covert war, admitted in a closed briefing of the House Intelligence Committee staff that the contras had killed civilians and Sandinista officials in the provinces, as well as heads of cooperatives, nurses, doctors, and judges. After all, Clarridge reportedly reasoned, this is a war. ...
Trevor Timm Retweeted Jason Leopold
Duane R. Clarridge, Pardoned CIA Criminal, Who Created Terror Networks And Admitted To A War Crime, Dies at 83
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/11/us/duane-r-clarridge-brash-spy-who-fought-terror-dies-at-83.html
treestar
(82,383 posts)and they were not as vindictive in those days? Even the Republicans were not. This was pre-Rush Limbaugh times.
George Carlin can take his victims whining. We do have power. We merely don't use it because we don't vote in midterms or care about elections other than the Presidency. We have ourselves to blame and blaming others and pretending we are their victims is cowardly.
Vinca
(50,170 posts)Reagan should have been impeached and George W. Bush should have been impeached. After the Iraq war lies we should have had a war crimes tribunal. Democrats in office have always held a delusional belief that they can "bridge the gap" if they don't rock the boat and hold Republicans accountable. They even maintain the position after Republicans go after them over and over again. It's something I've never understood, but it maybe it just goes back to wanting to keep their jobs. Me, me, me. Don't upset any voter who might keep you in office for another term. It's hard to distinguish between politics and prostitution sometimes.
avebury
(10,946 posts)Republicans would have impeached (or at least tried). They went after Bill Clinton.
The fact is that we cannot rely upon the Democrats to go after Republicans when they beak the law. The lesson that Democrats teach far too often is that actions do not have consequences and it ends up giving Republicans a free pass so often that they system is broken and not likely to be fixed. The ones who face the consequences are the masses.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)They still sing his praises in obviously delusional ways to this day:
deutsey
(20,166 posts)and the way he and his lawyer turned the hearings into a PR circus that made North look like a Rambo-esque "hero."
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Ollie stared at Brooks and turned to whisper some question to his lawyer, Brendan Sullivan. Before they answered, Sen. Inouye, D-Hawaii, said questions like that were best answered in closed session. Here're a few more details, courtesy of Bartcop and ProRev:
News from Post-Constitutional America
PROGRESSIVE REVIEW, 1996 - The issue arose again during the Iran-Contra affair, but even in the wake of all the copy on that scandal, the public got little sense of how far some America's soldiers of fortune were willing to go to achieve their ends. When the Iran-Contra hearings came close to the matter, chair Senator Inouye backed swiftly away. Here is an excerpt from those hearings. Oliver North is at the witness table:
REP BROOKS: Colonel North, in your work at the NSC, were you not assigned, at one time, to work on plans for the continuity of government in the event of a major disaster?
BRENDAN SULLIVAN: Mr. Chairman?
SEN INOUYE: I believe that question touches upon a highly sensitive and classified area so may I request that you not touch on that.
REP BROOKS: I was particularly concerned, Mr. Chairman, because I read in Miami papers, and several others, that there had been a plan developed by that same agency, a contingency plan in the event of emergency, that would suspend the American constitution. And I was deeply concerned about it and wondered if that was the area in which he had worked. I believe that it was and I wanted to get his confirmation.
SEN INOUYE; May I most respectfully request that that matter not be touched upon at this stage. If we wish to get into this, I'm certain arrangements can be made for an executive session
With few exceptions, the media ignored what well could be the most startling revelation to have come out of the Iran/Contra affair, namely that high officials of the US government were planning a possible military/civilian coup. First among the exceptions was the Miami Herald, which on July 5, 1987, ran the story to which Jack Brooks referred. The article, by Alfonzo Chardy, revealed Oliver North's involvement in plans for the Federal Emergency Management Agency to take over federal, state and local functions during an ill-defined national emergency.
According to Chardy, the plan called for 'suspension of the Constitution, turning control of the government over to the Federal Management Agency, emergency appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments and declaration of martial law.' The proposal appears to have forgotten that Congress, legislatures and the judiciary even existed.
CONTINUED...
http://prorev.com/coup.htm
Jack Brooks also was a leading light investigating the Inslaw-PROMIS affair.
A Primer on INSLAW
This primer has been collated and provided as a courtesy by Brian Wright. (Thank you.)
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Excerpt from:
NEWS RELEASE
August 11, 1992
U.S. House of Representatives, Committee on the Judiciary
Jack Brooks, Texas, Chairman
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE REPORT CALLS FOR INDEPENDENT COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE THE INSLAW CONTROVERSY
The ("INSLAW Affair" report concludes that there appears to be strong evidence, as indicated by the findings of two Federal court proceedings, as well as by the Committee investigation, that the Department of Justice "acted willfully and fraudulently," and "took, converted and stole," INSLAW's Enhanced PROMIS by "trickery, fraud and deceit." The report finds that these actions against INSLAW were implemented through the Project Manager from the beginning of the contract and under the direction of high-level Justice Department officials. The evidence presented in the report demonstrates that high-level Department officials deliberately ignored INSLAW's proprietary rights and misappropriated its PROMIS software for use at locations not covered under contract with the company. Justice then proceeded to challenge INSLAW's claims in court even though its own internal deliberations had concluded that these claims were valid and that the Department would most likely lose in court on this issue.
According to the report, the second phase of the Committee's investigation concentrated on the allegations that high-level officials at the Department of Justice conspired to drive INSLAW into insolvency and steal PROMIS. In this regard, the report states that several individuals testified under oath that INSLAW's PROMIS software was stolen and distributed internationally in order to provide financial gain to associates of Justice Department officials and to further intelligence and foreign policy objectives of the United States. Additional corroborating evidence was uncovered by the Committee which substantiated to varying degrees the information provided by these individuals.
(Chairman) Brooks stated, "Although (the Department of Justice was) faced with a growing body of evidence that serious wrongdoing had occurred which reached to the highest levels of the Department, both Attorney General Meese and Thornburgh ignored these findings of two Federal courts and refused to seek the appointment of an Independent Counsel."
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Excerpt from:
"Summer Of the Octopus"
WASHINGTON POST
by Mary McGrory
August 18, 1991
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(Danny Casolaro) had been investigating the Inslaw case, a tangled affair of government perfidy and international intrigue that has been in litigation since 1983. In his explorations, he found out about possibly related scandals -- BCCI, S&Ls, Iran-contra, the "October surprise" -- but until two weeks ago, he had found nothing about Inslaw. Then, he joyfully told friends, he hit bingo. One more interview and the case was cracked.
Suicides do not tell their intimates within days of taking the hemlock that they are "ecstatic" or "euphoric." Casolaro did. Nor do they attend family birthday parties, as Danny Casolaro was planning to do hours before he died. The last known call was to his mother in Fairfax (VA). He told her he was on Interstate 81 in Pennsylvania. He would be late, but he was headed home. A manic-depressive might then kill himself. Nobody ever suggested Danny Casolaro was one.
Although the case involves the alleged theft of computer software by the Justice Department in the time of Ed Meese, Thornburgh took it to his bosom. Bill Hamilton, a perfectly nice midwesterner who owned a Washington firm called Inslaw, had invented Promis, a software especially adapted to crime statistics, which he sold to Justice. The second year, Justice stopped making payments. Hamilton and his wife, Nancy, believe that cronies of Meese were given the franchise to sell around the world. Promis has turned up in Canada and Pakistan. Thelink with the "October surprise" is Earl Brian, a former Reagan political associate who allegedly paid off Iranians to keep the hostages until after the 1980 election -- and allegedly was paid off himself with huge profits from Promis.
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Excerpt from:
"The Inslaw Octopus"
by Richard L. Fricker
WIRED
But the real power of PROMIS, according to Hamilton, is that with a staggering 570,000 lines of computer code, PROMIS can integrate innumerable databases without requiring any reprogramming. In essence, PROMIS can turn blind data into information. And anyone in government will tell you that information, when wielded with finesse, begets power. Converted to use by intelligence agencies, as has been alleged in interviews by ex-CIA and Israeli Mossad agents, PROMIS can be a powerful tracking device capable of monitoring intelligence operations, agents and targets, instead of legal cases.
Apparently, Israel was not the only country interested in using PROMIS for internal security purposes, Lt. Col. Oliver North also may have been using the program. According to several intelligence community sources, PROMIS was in use at a 6,100 square-foot command center built on the sixth floor of the Justice Department. According to both a contractor who helped design the center and information disclosed during the Iran-contra hearings, Oliver North had a similar, but smaller, White House operations room that was connected by computer link to the DOJ's command center,
Using the computers in the command center, North tracked dissidents and potential troublemakers within the United States as part of a domestic emergency preparedness program, commissioned under Reagan's Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), according to sources and published reports. Using PROMIS, sources point out, North could have drawn up lists of anyone ever arrested for a political protest, for example, or anyone who had ever refused to pay their taxes. Compared to PROMIS, Richard Nixon's enemies lists or Sen. Joe McCarthy's blacklist look downright crude. The operation was so sensitive that when Rep. Jack Brooks asked North about it during the Iran-contra hearings, the hearing was immediately suspended pending an executive (secret) conference. When the hearings were reconvened, the issue of North's FEMA dealings was dropped.
Freelance reporter Danny Casolaro spent the last few years of his life investigating a pattern which he called "The Octopus." According to Casolaro, Inslaw was only part of a greater story of how intelligence agencies, the Department of Justice and even the mob had subverted the government and its various functions for their own profit.
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Excerpt from:
"The Dirtiest Bank of All"
by Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne
TIME
July 29, 1991
The more conventional departments of B.C.C.I. (Bank of Credit and Commerce International) handled such services as laundering money for the drug trade and helping dictators loot their national treasuries. The black network, which is still functioning, operates a lucrative arms-trade business and transports drugs and gold. According to investigators and participants in those operations, it often works with Western and Middle Eastern intelligence agencies. The strange and still murky ties between B.C.C.I. and the intelligence agencies of several countries are so pervasive that even the White House has become entangled. As TIME reported earlier this month, the National Security Council used B.C.C.I. to funnel money for the Iran-contra deals, and the CIA maintained accounts in B.C.C.I. for covert operations. Moreover, investigators have told TIME that the Defense Intelligence Agency has maintained a slush-fund account with B.C.C.I. apparently to pay for clandestine activities.
But the CIA may have used B.C.C.I. as more than an undercover banker: U.S. agents collaborated with the black network in several operations, according to a B.C.C.I. black-network "officer" who is now a secret U.S. government witness. Sources have told investigators that B.C.C.I. worked closely with Israel's spy agencies and other Western intelligence groups as well, especially in arms deals.
---a bookstore for democracy ---
http://www.copi.com/articles/inslaw_primer.htm
Mr. Brooks was a great man and a great Democrat. Like you are, deutsey!
Octafish
(55,745 posts)By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58
A paper trail of declassified documents from the Reagan‑Bush era yields valuable information on how counter‑terrorism provided a powerful mechanism for solidifying Bush's power base and launching a broad range of national security initiatives.
During the Reagan years, George Bush used "crisis management" and "counter‑terrorism" as vehicles for running key parts of the clandestine side of the US government.
Bush proved especially adept at plausible denial. Some measure of his skill in avoiding responsibility can be taken from the fact that even after the Iran‑Contra affair blew the Reagan administration apart, Bush went on to become the "foreign policy president," while CIA Director William Casey, by then conveniently dead, took most of the blame for a number of covert foreign policy debacles that Bush had set in motion.
The trail of National Security Decision Directives (NSDDS) left by the Reagan administration begins to tell the story. True, much remains classified, and still more was never committed to paper in the first place. Even so, the main picture is clear: As vice president, George Bush was at the center of secret wars, political murders, and America's convoluted oil politics in the Middle East.
SNIP...
Reagan and the NSC also used NSDDs to settle conflicts among security agencies over bureaucratic turf and lines of command. It is through that prism that we see the first glimmers of Vice President Bush's role in clandestine operations during the 1980s.
SNIP...
NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985
The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.
[font color="green"]The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.
The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.
Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified.[/font color] The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.
CONTINUED...
CovertAction Quarterly no 58 Fall 1996 pp31-40.
Then, Poppy Bush pardoned his fellow conspirators.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Generally speaking, you can't destabilize an area with them either.