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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Not To Say When Someone Is Sick
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-not-to-say-when-someone-is-sick/"I understand the impulse, but you are well-advised to resist it. When someone you know has a serious illness, maybe even dying, you want to say something to them that is helpful, positive, and hopeful. The hopeful tone takes away some of the sting and the awkwardness of not knowing what to say to someone who just told you they are dying.
The problem with this approach is that you risk making the other person feel worse just so you can make yourself feel temporarily better, to ease the discomfort of that one encounter. It is really easy to rationalize this behavior to yourself; you are just trying to be helpful.
...
By all accounts, one universal experience of those with a serious illness is that people come out of the woodwork to offer them advice about which alternative medicine they should be using to cure themselves. The experience is even worse for those with any fame, for then they have hordes of fans giving them unsolicited advice.
...
What they need is your emotional support. Just be there for them, with all the pain and discomfort that implies. People dont want platitudes or simplistic advice that just minimizes their pain and makes them feel as if they are alone.
..."
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A very good piece, IMO. Something every human should read and remember.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)GREAT! Excellent!
By all accounts, one universal experience of those with a serious illness is that people come out of the woodwork to offer them advice about which alternative medicine they should be using to cure themselves. The experience is even worse for those with any fame, for then they have hordes of fans giving them unsolicited advice.
My disease is genetic and there is no cure. There is nothing I could have done to prevent it other than not being born. Don't tell me about Himalayan Pink salt killing parasites. Seriously.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I was diagnosed with MS 7 months ago, at the age of 50 (Happy Birthday to me!). My symptoms are rapidly getting worse with new ones popping up all the time, and in fact I am in the midst of another round of MRI's to see if new lesions are forming (for instance, my right leg just stopped working a couple of weeks ago, as I was sauntering down a lovely street in an Irish village...3,000 miles from home. THAT was fun.)
If one more person says "But you look INCREDIBLE, Dorky!" I'm going to punch them in the neck.
Also NO, goat milk does not cure MS, and don't ask me why I just don't take these great immune enhancers that you or your friend sells and don't look at me sideways when I try to explain to you AGAIN that I CAN'T TAKE IMMUNE ENHANCERS because they make MS worse...
I tend to have gallows humor anyway, so if I'm joking around about how I'm not drunk even though I'm slurring my speech and falling follow along, please? Don't suddenly get all serious on someone who is, by temperament, NOT EVER SERIOUS okay? Take your cues from the afflicted person...if they want to talk, listen. If they want to cry, give them your shoulder. If they want to joke, laugh. And don't offer platitudes - you don't actually HAVE to say a feckin' thing.
Thank you for allowing me to co-sign and vent.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)Their supplements do nothing compared to my fresh vegetable juice and it's a lot cheaper to boot!
Seriously- everyone is a doctor these days.
Hang in there - I was probably 'sick' a lot more years than when my situation first flared and my body basically shut down (early 2009) - my ballet body damage masked a lot of it. It won't get better - but you will gain a lot of tools to 'cope' and live with the disease.
Hopefully my post was one of them!
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I have a horrible spine from years of being on horseback, as well as several car accidents (none of them my fault either) and Thoracic Outlet Syndrome from a cervical rib, so a lot of the initial pins and needles/weakness issues were being attributed to that.
I'm trying to live my life as if nothing is wrong (hence my going off to England and Ireland without my husband) but I need to learn that something IS wrong and I need to temper my usual enthusiasm for solo travel and long walks in the country. So I'm going to take a few pals and do the Camino de Santiago next year.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Well said!
Omaha Steve
(99,630 posts)Even though there is no known treatment (a new first time for FTD drug is in trials) a few seemed to help. I just posted not long ago I'm doing better than the time line I was given when I was tested and diagnosed.
I appreciate the kind thoughts I've gotten.
OS
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)a year ago. She is fighting, but she knows that it will ultimately take her. For now, she's doing chemo and savoring every moment with her kids.
Yesterday, on her Facebook page--she posted an update. It wasn't good.
Someone responded, "Everything happens for a reason, and we can't possibly know what those reasons are."
I really wanted to crawl though my computer and punch that person. So, my friend has to read that she got cancer for "a reason"? A good reason that is part of some grand plan? So, she' suffering, her family is suffering and her husband will lose her, as will her children--but this is part of some larger-picture plan that has been set in motion?
I get that people don't always know what to say. It's very hard.
But people who spread that kind of malarky really need to just stay off the Internet.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)are you fucking kidding me?!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)Thanks for sharing my outrage.
Crazy, isn't it?
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Her "best" friend asked her "what did you do to cause this? What behavior brought this on"? I got right in the woman's face. Unnerved by a crazy New Yorker in her face, with clenched jaw, barely speaking above a whisper saying "if you persist in this line of questioning I will pick you up and throw you", she persisted until my mother signaled me to get her out of her room. I didn't throw her, don't worry. I wanted to, but I didn't. I haven't spoken a word to her since, but I didn't toss her out of the window like I wanted to.
Flash forward to earlier this year, when her friend got cancer herself. Mom called me to tell me how it took everything she had in her not to sarcastically ask her what she did to cause her own cancer.
People are stupid but they are convinced of their own wisdom.
JustAnotherGen
(31,823 posts)And it's not acceptable. I tell people "I was born." *snorty laugh*
People assumed my dad was a smoker because his first level of cancer was his lungs - it was from being exposed to agents in Vietnam. So he did tell one of his neighbors who asked that -
"Well John while you were dodging the draft in Canada I was out contracting freedom."
My dad would not suffer a fool!
I'm glad your mom is AOK. And good on you for defending her!
What people don't realize is that every single one of us is dying from the minute were are born (my dad told this to me a few weeks before he died). His philosophy - from the day you are born it is your destiny to die. You cannot stop it.
Rex
(65,616 posts)They seem to never have heard of something called heredity. Something else (working with that type of person) I notice about them, they always cause problems with other people. It is as if they are not satisfied unless there is conflict around them.
You showed more restraint then I ever could, I won't be held responsible if anyone ever talks to my mother or father that way. I can promise you I will 'lose it'.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I think it harkens back to her childhood - she grew up relatively privileged in a very poor society and didn't have a lot of friends. She is desperate for them (even in her 70's) to the point of accepting bad behavior on their part. She even has friends that steal from her.
I REFUSE to have people like that in my life. And while some consider me to be very cold in this manner, I have no hesitation whatsoever to cut people entirely out of my life (i always, however, tell them why before unceremoniously dumping them so they can't keep coming back and asking "are you mad at me for something?". Once I'm done, I am done); the truth is I have a very solid core of real friends whose friendship came on gradually, over time (except my very best friend who has been my best friend for 43 years...when you're 7 you get attached easier LOL). Everyone else I just consider acquaintances until I know them REALLY well. I'm just not that cliquish, and I abhor small talk so I'm not the kind to spend an evening out with the "girls" (I actually can't think of anything I'd enjoy less). I harbor no delusions that when I die people will flock to my funeral because I knew so many people (my father's dad was like that! SRO at his funeral!) My friends are just like me and as a result. we're fiercely loyal to each other.
Believe me, if my mother wasn't as sick as she was at the time I would have been VERY vocal and probably would have picked her up by the back of her collar and pushed her out the door. You DON'T get to fuck with my tribe with me around and live to tell the tale...at least not with your original teeth
Rex
(65,616 posts)We have something in common!
My mom's favorite friends are books (and dad)...she makes bookworms look like TVEE junkies! My parents house looks like a library. Dad reads, but mom is a reading machine.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)My husband is as voracious a reader as I am and we hang out in book stores like some people hang around in bars.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I leave with a few books and maybe a video game. Mom has a basket full and dad in the art section (sitting) reading about post-impressionalism from a huge glossy book (I admit no idea who the writer or artist is), until mom tells me to go get him, because she wants to go to the Shoe Warehouse next door.
I will miss these moments, but while I have them I will cherish every second.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Except I'm Mrs. Artsy-fartsy history hound and the hubster would have the basket full (he reads a lot of technical books for his job).
You're right to cherish the time you have...none of us are guaranteed tomorrow.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I take nothing for granted.
Mom was a history teacher and talked me into it too...teaching high school students was...interesting.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I majored in history, thinking that i would go into law school, but I couldn't afford it. I would have been miserable in law (I was a paralegal) but I am happiest reading or talking about history. Since I never had my own kids I probably could have mustered enough patience for a room full, part time anyway.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)Lodestar
(2,388 posts)to share something like this anyway imo. Do it in person, on the phone or in a
letter. Intimacy never feels quite real on the internet simply because it seems
to act like some disembodied head with no beating heart.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)share the time because you both know it is fading...
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)The friend has terminal cancer and might not be here in 6 months. My curious husband's impulse is to ask questions. My advice, having had cancer myself, was not to ask him anything, but be as supportive as his friend wants him to be. The friend has a close family, and is not one of my husband's best friends. He's more like a highly respected colleague.
Solly Mack
(90,766 posts)csziggy
(34,136 posts)Offer to run errands, give them rides, bring them food or essentials, help with household chores, whatever they need that you can do to help them out. Or just provide company if they want it.
Without my husband I would have needed that kind of help while recovering from my various injuries and surgeries.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,188 posts)People generally don't like to ask for help or even accept it when it's offered. Don't ask them, TELL THEM. As in:
"I'm going grocery shopping tomorrow. What can I pick up for you? If you say nothing I'll just buy you a case of Ensure."
"I'm coming to see you tomorrow. Is afternoon or evening better."
Also, if they have loved ones that are caregivers, ask/tell them. I took care of my mother full time for the last 6 months of her life. Just having an occasional day off was so nice!
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Phentex
(16,334 posts)many people will not ask even though it's offered. I think your advice is very good.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,188 posts)If you need help and you can bring yourself to ask for it, be specific on your request. Tell them
"I could really use a break. Could you come stay with mom Tuesday evening?"
"I haven't been able to get out for groceries. If I give you a list and some money, could you do my grocery shopping?"
It's easier for people to say yes, and harder to say no, when you're specific.
malaise
(268,997 posts)also helps as does assisting with laundry
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)Some people who are ill (or bereaved, etc.) can be upset at others seeming to take over and deprive them of an independence which already seems threatened. Obviously, I am not talking about situations where the person is already 'in extremis' and would be lying on the floor and starving if someone else did not come in and assist them. Also, some ill people are easily exhausted by visitors, or feel humiliated by having others see them at their worst.
I do agree with being direct about what sort of thing you could do for the person. Nice as it is to say 'If you need anything, ask me', most people, however willing, are not able to do literally ANYTHING that the other person may need. I cannot drive, and so cannot give people lifts. Someone else may have a very demanding commute and work schedule, and so rarely be available on weekdays. So rather than leaving the person to guess what is possible to ask - and maybe thereby avoiding asking at all for fear of asking 'too much' and being refused - it's IMO a good idea to be more specific: 'Please let me know whenever you need shopping done'; 'Please let me know whenever you need a lift at the weekend'; and yes, 'I'm going shopping tomorrow; what could I pick up for you?'
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)You must know exactly who you're asking and what they cherish (independence etc). I will tell you that with me, its a no-win situation; I have always been the one to do things for everyone else, fussing and flapping like the mother hen I tend to be, and am stubborn as a mule to boot. That said, I would NEVER ask someone to do something for me so i end up doing stupid things like grocery shopping with pneumonia. Now I've got MS, things haven't changed and I've taken a couple of bad falls because I'm hell-bound to be my own woman. My dad is the person on the planet that knows me best, and so he just goes and does things for me without asking (being my father's daughter he says he just does what he thinks he would want done).
My poor husband is learning...honestly he should be canonized for putting up with me.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)A very good friend of mine was unexpectedly diagnosed with advanced cancer some years ago. After the initial shock, I realized there was nothing I could do in terms of actively saving her life, but I could and did accompany her to chemo treatments, shop for wigs, did errands, washed dishes, changed litter boxes, etc., etc., in addition to talking about her cancer when she wanted to and not talking about it when she didn't. She was a person with an illness, not an illness with a person. Respecting that difference means everything.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)what should be said to someone who is dying because they're trying to cure their cancer with naturopathic remedies and other woo-woo, when legitimate, proven medical treatments could actually help them.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)That person's illness. That person's choice. If we can't handle that (and it's hard), we should not be there.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)He addresses it in the situation where they have already undergone or are undergoing legitimate medical treatments that haven't worked. The reverse is not an equivalent situation. In fact, the harm being done in the reverse situation is one of the primary arguments against encouraging the use of ineffective treatments and remedies, even if they're harmless.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Telling people that using or allowing the use of unproven treatments is a bad idea, and why, even though he isn't their doctor, either. Why is it his business? It's not harming HIM. Do you oppose his efforts to discourage the use of those kinds of treatments?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)arikara
(5,562 posts)your concern if that's the choice they made.
Like it or not.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)If a close friend were dying of a serious infection that could be cured by antibiotics, but they were using a useless herbal remedy, you wouldn't say a word to encourage them to seek a lifesaving treatment, but instead would just let them die?
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)choosing to follow something else.
I suppose it really depends on the context, and it's not 'one size fits all'. Also, it depends on the kind of cancer, and whether it's something that's very likely to be cured with proper treatment (e.g. Hodgkin's disease; many forms of breast cancer) or one which has a poor prognosis anyway.
LeftishBrit
(41,205 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)A lot of us do not and it puts us in an awkward position when people say religious things to us, even if they are well-meaning.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)csziggy
(34,136 posts)If nothing else, it made them feel better and it didn't hurt me. In return when one of my friends who had prayed for me lost her husband, I told her that my thoughts would be with her and helped organize food for the memorial lunch after the funeral service.
Maybe it's because I grew up in the South with relatives who are Baptist preachers, but I am used to it being assumed that everyone is a Christian. Just because the attitudes of my Baptist relatives caused me to turn away from religion is no reason for me to be unkind to well meaning people.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)It made them feel better -- but isn't the point to make the sick person feel better?
I have a friend who went through cancer. When he was told that he was being prayed for, he said that his first thought was: "So you're asking a favor from a deity, but this being, if it has the power to intervene in human lives such as mine, either caused or allowed me to get cancer in the first place." This is what went through his head; not what he said to the pray-ers.
So by telling him they were praying for him, religious people caused him a bit of irritation, which he didn't need in his cancer battle. It probably never crossed their mind that he wouldn't be happy to receive prayers ... which is a big part of the problem. A lot of religious people have NO CLUE that many people don't share their devotion to supernatural beliefs and why it's good to spread the word to believers to knock it off unless, like I said, they KNOW that the sick person believes in this stuff.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Them or their beliefs, I might do that. But if it would only hurt their feeling and upset them I would not.
The particular lady that asked if she could pray for me is a very dedicated church goer. She was involved in establishing her current church, helped raise money for their new sanctuary, and is extremely involved in all the church affairs. Confronting her about her beliefs and my lack thereof would only upset her and it would make no difference in her attitudes or her future behavior.
It was just not worth it.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)who would put a person in the position of having to decide whether or not an objection is "worth it." Just don't do it in the first place (again, unless you're sure a person is religious) -- that is what is not "worth it." They shouldn't cause more stress to a sick person. Instead they could say something like "I sure am thinking about you a lot."
Duppers
(28,120 posts)shrike
(3,817 posts)Also, (and I am religious), unless you know FOR SURE a bereaved person is religious, don't tell them their loved one is in heaven. I remember an atheist saying that after his son died people told him that and it was fresh pain each time: he didn't believe it, and it just underscored for him the fact that he'd never see his son again.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Thanks for understanding it from the other point of view.
shrike
(3,817 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)Whoooo-boy!
MisterP
(23,730 posts)even doctors' decisions and experience get the stinkeye
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)But you keep telling yourself that. It won't help anyone at all.
mopinko
(70,103 posts)recently starting doing hospice volunteering and hospice pet therapy w my dog.
a patient recounted his hurt feeling when he told his niece he was dying and her first question was- how long?
cut him to the quick, and he said he would never, ever ask someone that question. i told him i only thought that was acceptable if the person was trying to figure out how to spend that time w them. he took it that she was asking how much longer she would be burdened w this old man.
but yeah, everyone is dr google these days. i have constant arguments w a neighbor on fb who plays the whole- science is a sham, smoke weed- thing whenever any illness is mentioned. i already hid his feed, but i see his comments to mutual friends all the time.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Take care, and good work!
i am enjoying it so much. i pass out a lot of hugs, which is one of my super powers. and the dog. omg. the dog.
he is a huge bully dog that almost no one can resist.
taking a pet to visit someone who is sick is better than any words.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Nothing is more soothing to me than my dogs (one of which is a sweet as heck bully breed) and my goofy ever-present kitties.
Thank you for doing what you're doing. I'm sure it brings joy to many people.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)sagetea
(1,368 posts)I never know what to say to loved ones with illness, I guess I am stoic.
When my father was dying, all I could think of was reading to him, he liked to listen to books on tape or cd's. I read him Harry Potter and died while in the seventh chapter of the first book..the workers at the hospice, were quite impressed and asked if they could share my story with their other patients families. Of course I told them, but I only did it because I didn't know how to talk to him, other than "I love you, daddy..."
Sad part is, I still have the book mark in the book, I can't even pick it up without thinking about how much I miss him.
sage
mopinko
(70,103 posts)barely verbal, and barely in touch w her own body.
my little sister reads to her when she visits these days. it is a very good idea.
i dont see her often, but last time i took my dog. she really enjoyed his visit.
sorry about you dad. no matter how old you are, it is hard to be an orphan.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)My father had a heart valve replaced three years ago and all I could do when he was in the hospital and unable to interact was read to him or tell him I loved him.
I am so sorry for your loss.
Orrex
(63,210 posts)That's a phrase that bears repeating:
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
Alternative medicine makes it worse
If only its cheerleaders could be made to understand.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)I am so sorry. What can I do to help?
And then help, even if it's just being the still silent presence of caring.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I'm not a fan of the first, however.
Rex
(65,616 posts)If they want a vanilla shake from Dairy Queen (even if they can't eat anymore) go get it for them and be happy. DO anything you can for someone that is terminally ill. Hold their hand until they fall sleep, don't ever let go.
Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)each one of them said they would put him on their prayer chain. Take your effin' prayer chains and shove them. He needed help taking out trash and cutting the damned grass.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I'm sorry.
Take care!
Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)An "I'm sorry" is infinitesimally better than a prayer chain.
Orrex
(63,210 posts)Someone else's suffering is not an invitation for mindless religious sentimentality.
And it's always rationalized on the basis that "you should take it in its intended spirit."
Fuck that. Fuck. That.
It is absolutely 100% bullshit, demanding that the cancer patient (or whoever) give priority to the well-wisher's feelings, when the well-wisher is in fact a very distant secondary. Further, if the patient has the nerve to explain why such sentimentality is not helpful, then the patient is deemed the asshole, rather than the opportunistic religious vulture.
Fuck that. Fuck. That.
Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)You have expressed exactly how we feel. If they'd like to visit and give me a break or actually find out how he's doing, fine. But save the fake crap. Go play Church somewhere else. Or feel victimized, I don't care. We need to have our window air conditioners put in shortly - that would be helpful if 2 of them could do that. But no. We will have to pay someone, or MY brother will do it, not his.
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)I know I have fallen into the trap of offering up advice. It is done out of concern, not malice nor to make myself feel better. Most people realize it. It works the same in reverse, when I am on the receiving end of the advice. Where I take issues are people who do make it about them, or ask "are you right with G-d?" Usually, it is easier to tell what a person is wanting in person or at least over the phone because there are verbal and non-verbal clues which can help most people distinguish what the person in need is actually needing.
I recently mis-stepped when I was talking to a friend who is having legal issues and she was just wanting to vent, but I didn't get it from her tone, mainly because she was doing 100 other things and I could not see her most of the time. Once I realized what she needed, I changed my tone and tactics, and she felt better. Some people can't help themselves. I love my mother with all my heart, but when it comes to areas where I am concerned about something, I often have to tell her, point blank, I don't want your advice.
I recently got some news about my husband which is very disconcerting. I was feeling upset, scared, and lonely. I don't have many friends because most are far away, so I reached out to three posters here. There responses were exactly what I needed! They let me know it was OK to be scared and all I had to do was to let them know.
I have discussed many a personal issue with DU'ers in PMs over the years. I sometimes offer advice or tell stories which show I have been in a similar situation, simply to let them know I am understanding or trying to be understanding. When things get really rough, I will often close with, "If you need to vent, just get pissed off or upset, and you don't want me to say anything, just say so in your next PM and I won't say a thing." To date, only one poster has taken me up on that, and the only PM I sent back in regards to that issue was I wanted her to know I read it and I was still there for her. She told me a few days later, it made her day! YEA!
When people are in distress, upset, scared, sick, or what have you, sometimes all they really want is an ear, a shoulder, and a hug. It's not too much to ask, and they shouldn't have to do so. Advice is cheap, compassion is priceless.
shrike
(3,817 posts)I wish I had a dollar for every time, during cancer treatment, someone said to me, "my aunt/grandma/cousin/sister had what you had and they were dead in six months." When you have cancer you're well aware you might die from it; you don't need to hear about the others who have. There was one woman, I'll never forget it, who told me in great detail about how her uncle's cancer wound itself around his innards -- very graphic, I was right in the middle of my treatment, didn't need to hear that at that time.
Yikes.
Thanks for the great addition!
Take care.