Trump has one path to the White House, and it runs straight thru Hillary Clinton

[Bucky]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the General Discussion forum).

He's been busy imploding himself lately, so it's not too much of a worry. But Secretary Clinton's fragility as a candidate was all out on display this weekend. Like a bad boxer, she's got a glass jaw. Her plan was to have this nomination sewed up by now. The battle plan has not fared well under field conditions and she's not adapting to the new circumstances well, despite having a massively superior air game to Sanders.

She'll win the nomination in the end, but I gotta wonder how well she'll hold up in the fall running against Trump, who has not but an air game. The one thing she's not doing--and she desperately needs to do this--is leave the door open to Sanders supporters. She's doing damned little to try and win them over, which needs to start happening yesterday. Of course they won't desert Sanders now, but she needs to make them jumping ship for her campaign an attractive prospect.

Meanwhile, I'm sure Trump's out there, trying to see how he can game the electorate and pick up some gullible progressive votes by playing his bogus can't-be-bought card. He obviously can be--his brand is for sale to the highest builder and his campaign's debt will only be erased by corrupt lobbyists and bundlers coming in after the election to bid out favors from the federal government. So at this point, Trump has a major financial motivation for winning the race, and thus the motivation to go out for a job that, frankly, he probably never really wanted in the first place.

Oh, democracy, you can be so silly sometimes.

[leftofcool]

1. Oh Trump is just so wonderful! How will Hillary ever hold up??????????????

Jesus Christ! Don't you guys ever get tired of pumping up Trump?

[daleanime]

2. Pump up? No.

Do you really want to keep on underestimating him?

[Bucky]

3. I'm not sure why you're projecting this onto my comments, but I'm pretty clearly anti-Trump

It would take a fool to deny his success at marketing his brand of mean to gullible voters, but I've been pretty consistant about saying that Trump is an American Mussolini. He is also pretty agile in retweeking his self-branding to new markets and audiences, which he will certainly do for the fall campaign. If he can unify the Republican Party and Clinton can't, it's going to be a tight race. It saddens me that you're blind to that. It'll be sadder still if Clinton shares your blindness.

As I said in my OP, she'll certain to be the nominee this year. I think it's pretty imperative that she learn to adapt better to changes in political circumstance. I think that's the conversation the party needs to have. If all you can do is offer sarcasm and paranoia about Trump-loving Sandernistas, you're obviously not going to be part of that conversation.

[edhopper]

4. Trump has almost no chance in the general

he will be the most disliked nominee to ever run from a major party.

It will be a GOP bloodbath.

Hillary needs to secure the nomination, unite the party and then there is plenty of time to dismantle Drumpf.

[RichGirl]

5. First of all...

Hillary has been attacked and trashed every which way. Not only professionally, but privately. If anyone can handle it...she is the one. (You may remember that when she became First Lady, she wanted to do something important, so she tried to take on reforming healthcare. Well, we know what happened. She was quickly put in her place and informed that a first ladys job was to redecorate the white house or some equally mundane job. Michelle Obama graduated at the top of her class at Princeton and as First Lady is gardening!)

Bernie, on the other hand, hasn't been through the mud of an ugly election. I would be much more concerned about him. Hillary hasn't even criticized him in a big way. I don't know how he would handle the full force of the rightwing ugliness.

Trump says stupid things daily...he's his own worst enemy.

Of course Hillary will welcome Bernie supporters. But, the worst thing she could do right now is to act as if she has already won and start trying to win them over now. That would look really bad. She's got plenty of time to win them over and in light of what the other side looks like, it won't take much.

When you are competing with someone you have to focus on differences. But, Hillary and Bernie aren't that far apart on things. He will support her as she would him and it will all be peachy.

You may recall, when it looked like Obama was winning, Bill Clinton, as a superdelegate voted for him. That's the kind of nice thing democrats do. They are loyal to each other even if they don't agree on everything.

[PJMcK]

15. Excellent points

Your analysis makes sense, RichGirl. Our Democratic candidates are closer to one another than any Republican is to Secretary Clinton (or, obviously, to Senator Sanders). Ultimately, each of our candidates' supporters will need to rally behind the eventual winner of the Democratic nomination because the alternative is unthinkable.

[snooper2]

6. Good try by attempting to make it all about Trump, but fail- still GD-P!

GD-P

GDPEEE


BEFORE THIS IS LOCKED REMEMBER THIS IS GDPEEEEEEE!

[Bucky]

24. I appreciate the concern, but this is genuinely about the fall election

I don't have many delusions that Sanders can get the nomination now. So I'm not discussing that.

The real question for Democrats is how can we expand the base for our presumptive nominee. I think it's an important discussion, even if you don't

[davidn3600]

7. She's assuming Sanders supporters will automatically flock to her if she's facing Trump

But one thing both Sanders and Trump supporters are going to have in common this fall is they will both feel as if they just got hosed by the establishment of both parties. Both will start to feel that American democracy is a rigged game played by the super rich and elites with an Ivy league education and connections.

Even if Hillary ultimately wins, trying to successfully govern in this environment is going to be almost impossible. Neither party is popular. It's just Americans hate the Republicans a bit more than the Democrats at the moment. If fact if the public votes in Hillary while keeping Congress under control of Republicans, it suggests the American people would rather have gridlock right now than one party controlling everything.

[RichGirl]

10. That's the key...it's not just about getting a democratic president....

WE, the voters, have to be as passionate about local elections so we can turn congress blue as well.

Everybody can go on and on about the great things Bernie will do...but he won't do anything without a democratic majority in the HOUSE. And, keep in mind, in 25 years Bernie hasn't done anything on his own. We all like the new guy with new ideas. But, personally I think we need a known fighter...who has already been through the war.

[davidn3600]

11. Hillary will never turn the Congress blue

She'll enter office being one of the most unpopular presidents ever right off the bat. People already hate her.

Bernie's unfavorables are nowhere near as high as Hillary's.

[RichGirl]

13. No one knows enough about Bernie to have unfavorables!

He hasn't done anything on his own in 25 years...so there is nothing to criticize!

You are contradicting yourself. If Hillary wins the presidency then clearly enough people don't hate her! And she will do as well any anyone.

[BlueMTexpat]

21. That may be YOUR opinion.

But it is NOT the opinion of elected officials themselves, who VERY much believe that Hillary at the top of the ticket will definitely strengthen their chances of getting majorities in the House and Senate.

This is why not only the overwhelming majority of SDs who have endorsed a candidate have endorsed Hillary as opposed to Bernie, but also why the majority of those Dems who are running for open seats have endorsed her. Yesterday afternoon, I heard firsthand from two of my state's DC representatives speak very passionately about exactly this. Next week there will be an even larger rally for her and even more of the state's Congressional delegation will speak, along with those hoping to win new seats. Both Dem candidates running for US Senator have endorsed Hillary.

I have NEVER seen elected Dems in MD so passionately and enthusiastically united behind a primary candidate. EVER. And the crowd was large, which is extremely impressive when Hillary herself was not even present.

You seem to have swallowed all the RW anti-Hillary propaganda being echoed by too many Bernie supporters and really need to open your eyes. You can go on and on about "unfavorables" all you want. The facts show that at this point, she leads Bernie by more than 2.5 million votes. That number will continue to rise because she is enormously popular among those who haven't even had a chance to vote yet.

[davidn3600]

25. Yeah....but the Democratic contest is overall 25% lower turnout than 2008

I'm sorry, but people are simply not as enthused about Hillary as they were about Obama.

The youth turned out in record numbers to support Obama. The youth right now (even young women) are supporting Bernie. If he's not on the ballot, will the youth even vote?

I'm not enthused with her at all. I've given money to Bernie. I'll go door to door and campaign for him. I'll help people to the polls. I won't do that with Hillary. She won't get a cent from me. And you will certainly NEVER find me on a street corner holding up a sign for Hillary. Will never happen. Not in a million years. I won't go as far as to say she will never get my vote...Im not sure yet how I will vote if Bernie isn't the nominee. But I certainly won't go out of my way to help a corporate hack win the White House. She's got enough rich and powerful friends. Make then go out and campaign for her.

[BlueMTexpat]

26. I'm not sure what turnout really has

to do with the price of rice in China.

But please note that turnout for Hillary herself is as high or higher than in the 2008 primaries. It is total Democratic turnout that is down. That doesn't speak all that well for your candidate's popularity, does it? Because what turnout there has been in the Dem primaries so far still indicates that there is more enthusiasm overall for Hillary than for Bernie.

The majority of Dems agree that Bernie is a good candidate and LOVE his ideas. They just do not believe - in light of his accomplishments (or lack thereof) during his MANY years in Congress - that they are realistic in current circumstances or that he has any realistic idea of how to implement them. "Revolution" is simply not an effective political strategy for the US. It certainly won't work on the global scene.

From your long para, it appears that you fall into the privileged "Bernie or bust" crowd, which shows exactly how shallow the "progressive" veneer they claim is. If they can't get their choice of candidate, they really don't give two f***s about anyone else or the country. That is the polar opposite of "progressive" - especially when the alternative is simply Unthinkable.

Equating Hillary with the GOP, which is effectively what you do, is not accurate or truthful and is something that your candidate is not doing and has not done, to his credit. Perhaps you don't have as much respect for him as you claim either.

[davidn3600]

27. No im in the "Bernie or it doesn't matter" crowd

Electing Hillary is like electing a neo-conservative. She doesn't care about the working class. In her mind, $250,000 a year is "middle class." She supports companies firing American workers so they can hire foreigners for cheaper. She supports shitty trade deals that destroy swaths of American jobs. She gives speeches to Wall Street big wigs that is apparently too important for the rest of us to hear. She favors the death penalty and the private prison industry. And she favored the Iraq war. I can go on and on why I can't stand her and her elitist attitude.

[RichGirl]

14. To imply similarities...is an insult to Bernie supporters.

The term "establishment" is vague and means completely different things to left and right. Not in a million years will they come together.

You think Bernie supporters are suddenly going to believe we should build a fence to keep out Mexicans out or block Muslims from entering. Or maybe you think Bernie supporter are going to think we should ban abortion or gay marriage. Maybe Bernie supporters will think the KKK I actually a good idea or they'll think minimum wage is too high and needs to be lowered and we should cut taxes on the wealthy!!!!

Hillary and Bernie aren't that far apart in what they want for this country. They just have different ideas of how to do it. No democrat...whether Hillary or Bernie supporter could ever be won over by the hateful morons that support Trump.

[davidn3600]

16. Never said they were the same

But both will think elitists are screwing them over for different reasons.

Debbie Wasserman Schultz flatly admitted that the superdelegate system is deigned to keep grassroots candidates from winning.

[underpants]

8. I disagree. The struggle for the nomination in both parties...

is to win without ruining your chances in the general. Hillary hasn't been perfect but Trump is doing a textbook how-not-to.

[Bucky]

23. Agreed. And yet...

Trump has in the past shown great agility at turning his public image around. I don't get it--he seems like a monster to me---but apparently among the Fox News-suckled sections of the country, his anger and faux reformism are very appealing. I remember 1988, still, when we had that election in the bag and ended up with a nominee who didn't punch back hard enough or fast enough and got outspun by dog whistle innuendo from a guy with only limited social appeal. Now, Poppy Bush ain't Trump in a lot of ways, but I have to fault our presumptive nominee with a lot of the same insularity that Mike Dukakis showed.

I'm trying to start a conversation about how we, as party supporters, can turn that around.

[underpants]

30. Sadly I don't think we can turn it around

It's out of our hands. The media sells drama and that's about it. Regardless of who the nominees are AND how over the general election already is, they have to move product. We have several examples of the media admitting that Trump is good for business and that's all they care about.

I've said from the beginning, and still stand by it, that THE issues in the Presidential race are:
Will our side vote if their candidate doesn't get the nomination.
General apathy and people being dissuaded from voting with the 'doesn't matter" "all the same" "they all suck".

[Proud Liberal Dem]

9. (Some) Bernie supporters don't seem to be helping much either

By the time the primary is officially over, they'll have to walk back a LOT of statements about Hillary Clinton, whom many seem to have made into evil incarnate. Bernie will have to suck it up and endorse Hillary as well (though I expect that he will be more gracious about it than some).

[davidn3600]

12. They don't have to walk back anything

Holding your nose to vote for someone doesn't equal support. Most voters will be doing that in November. Hillary supporters will mistaken those votes as real support when in fact those votes are just people voting against the other side.

[geek tragedy]

17. No one has spent any time attacking Hillary Clinton ever, nope.

Clinton is winning the nomination. That's not going to sit well with people who want her to lose.

[Blue_Tires]

18. Doesn't this belong in GD:P?

[Bucky]

20. I thought about it, but I'm talking about the general election, not the primaries

topics blur, but I'm really discussing the fall campaign, not the nomination fight

[leftynyc]

19. Get this to GD-P

Doesn't everyone get that message asking if this is really for GD or do you REALLY want GD-P. No excuse for this shit on GD.

[Bucky]

22. I think it's a fair question, but it's really not about the fight for the Nomination

It's a close call, I's agree, but I thought about it and I'm talking about the general election, not the primaries. Thanks for your kindness, courtesy, and consideration.

[leftynyc]

29. I think anything having to do with election

belongs in GD-P. That way, those of us who don't want to read about the election - primary or general - can trash a forum. I honestly don't think it's a close call at all.

[Rex]

28. He doesn't stand a chance against HRC imo.

She will talk rings around him, he will get pissed off and call her something vile on TV...election over HRC wins.

[Democat]

31. This belongs in the Primaries forum

With the other infighting.