General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBlack Woman Kicked Off Flight For Wearing 'Black Lives Matter' T-Shirt?
http://www.centrictv.com/news-views/centric-news/articles/2016/03/30/black-woman-kicked-off-flight-for-wearing-black-lives-matter-t-shirt.html"Nothing about my voice, tone, body language etc. communicated "threatening." Other than, of course, this Black body," Cezanne wrote in a thread of tweets explaining the incident.
Cezanne says things went left after she questioned the flight attendant after she moved a foreign couple away from their exit row seats. The flight attendant responded that passengers in the exit row must be able to speak English in order to understand procedure in case of an emergency....
"Why would she ask me that? Is that an appropriate way to speak to a customer who is calmly having a conversation with someone?" she tweeted. "What about me seemed potentially problematic? I was seated, legs crossed, hands in lap. Using my "inside voice."
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
linuxman
(2,337 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)they only care if it affects their bottom line.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)This is almost certain to be a very one-sided story, missing key details that would make sense of it all for us.
Working flights, dealing with customers, not an easy job. And nobody really wants to create a scene.
However, if a customer, and customer of any age or race, adopts an attitude, is rude to others, shows signs of being under the influence, or otherwise seems to be a possible source of distress, the airline employee is duty-bound to consider having that passenger removed before take off.
I'm guessing that this young lady was looking like a possible problem, even by her own admission. What concern is it of hers that a couple was moved away from an exit row?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...that she was apparently not aware that federal law does not allow people to sit in an exit row because they don't speak English.
Oddly, most of the online reports lack details from her account in this article, which was early on in the cycle on this one:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-lives-matter-activist-rages-kicked-flight-article-1.2584662
"This is 2016, why don't they have at least the translation in other languages to at least explain what's going on ... knowing they cater to people who speak other languages?" Cezanne asked.
“That couple looked frustrated and upset because they physically had to get up ... I felt it was necessary for me to say something,” she said.
Federal regulations issued in 1990 say passengers must understand English in order to sit in the exit row.
Instead of the flight attendant explaining the rules to Cezanne, she walked away.
Cezanne called a friend for insight and discussed her concerns with the passengers seated next to her, when the flight attendant interrupted the conversation.
"Are you going to be a problem? she allegedly asked Cezanne.
"Are you going to be a problem? Why would you ask me that?" Cezanne fired back.
The FA has to get a verbal "yes" from every passenger in the exit rows to the question of whether they understand English. Ms. Cezanne apparently does not understand that the point of the exercise is not whether the pre-flight instructions can be provided in different languages. The point is whether the passengers will understand and be able to cooperate with spoken English instructions in the event of an emergency.
At the point of the exit row briefing, the cabin door is closed and the crew is going through all the necessary pre-flight steps in order to get the plane away from the gate. Having to re-seat non-English speaking passengers who managed to get all the way onto the plane (considering that they are asked at ticketing and at the boarding gate before getting onto the plane) can be a time consuming pain in the ass, which can involve re-shuffling passengers elsewhere on the plane, can delay departure, and the airline gets dinged for a late departure.
But - Ms. Cezanne "felt it was necessary for me to say something", but more significantly to make a phone call after the cabin door was closed and the plane was preparing to leave the gate.
Yes, you can use portable electronics in flight. No, you can't make phone calls.
I was in an exit row a while back where a VERY WHITE, and VERY PRIVILEGED guy also in the row decided he needed to finish an important phone call after the cabin door was closed. During the exit row briefing, he told the person on the phone to "hold on a sec" and just kept the phone by his ear while a very frustrated FA was politely asking him to end his call. He was seconds from ejection before other passengers persuaded him to end it so we could leave.
It's still a one-sided account, but it is interesting that her later statements don't include even as much detail as her initial one.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)Yeah, using your phone to make a call in direct defiance of FAA rules and airline rules seems like a good indicator that this particular passenger might make things difficult for everyone.
adios.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Trying to get the other passengers involved, making the call, and then responding to the problem question with a "Are YOU going to be a problem?" makes it clear that she would not accept authority. The girl herself wrote that she acted that way:
Umm, because that's the flight attendant's job?
Hekate
(100,133 posts)Before my Lasik surgery I was utterly functionally blind if my glasses or contact lenses were knocked off my face. I speak English. I have a cool head in an emergency, just ask. But with 800/20 vision, I would have been a real liability sitting in an Emergency Exit.
And, Ms. Cezanne, I am so white I practically glow in the dark.
malaise
(296,114 posts)Not everything is racism.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)plane home from Las Vegas because another couple who had been in their mutual friends' wedding party were loudly quarreling and one was apparently inebriated and threatening to get out of control. Our kids had been trying to quiet these acquaintainces, and when Security stepped in they disavowed all significant connection, but to no avail. The airliner needed to finish boarding and no one associated with this problem was going on at that point. Mad! Yes, but they understood the airline's position.
Given the hard line airlines are taking these days, I would be pretty surprised if this young woman's behavior wasn't the cause of her being booted, not her clothing.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I don't think the flight attendant was racist, she just took exception to a rude person who was obnoxiously trying to tell her how to do her job. Next time this person is more likely to mind her own business.
Leontius
(2,270 posts)More accurate headline.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Living While Black.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Gets asked a question, responds with "Why would you ask me that?"
Uhm, because she felt like you were being a problem?
And your response indicates that you are going to spend your time criticizing what she does and what questions she asks, etc.
Seems kinda harsh to kick somebody off a plane at that point. Of course, we are only hearing HER version of events. Possibly a version from somebody who was causing trouble and wants "to cash in".
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)Too bad, too sad for American Airlines and that attendant because that paying customer is going to sue the pants off them.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Is that the woman saw something happening and jumped to the conclusion that it was an issue connected to racism, when in reality it was nothing of the sort. The flight attendant could probably have handled it better by just telling her immediately that it was a law, but the woman clearly misunderstood what was happening and caused a scene where no scene was warranted.
brush
(61,033 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)By the sounds of it she'd already started to rouse other passengers and from the airlines point of view any delay to flights taking off on time is expensive and unacceptable. It'd be interesting to hear what the flight attendant or other passengers say happened.
brush
(61,033 posts)They realized that their attendant handled the situation horribly.
Certainly there was another way to handle it instead of throwing a paying customer off the plane and thereby leave her stranded in an airport.
Good on the airline, finally, their PR consultants apparently got through to them that their image was suffering badly on social media as this story went viral.
They'll still get sued though, and rightly so.
hack89
(39,181 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)At first the airline told her they couldn't help her, that she was on her own to find a way home.
They later relented though when sensible heads prevailed and realized the attendant had overreacted by throwing a paying passenger off the plane (they probably realized that they were going to get sued up the yin yang if they left her stranded in a strange airport).
They'll get sued anyway. I'm guessing lawyers are lining up to take that case.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)
Skittles
(171,716 posts)
hughee99
(16,113 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)They realized that their attendant handled the situation horribly.
Certainly there was another way to handle it instead of throwing a paying customer off the plane and thereby leave her stranded in an airport.
Good on the airline, finally, their PR consultants apparently got through to them that their image was suffering badly on social media as this story went viral.
They'll still get sued, and rightly so.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)kicked off the plane just for wearing a #BLM shirt, which was the claim.
brush
(61,033 posts)over the last year about Black Lives Matter had anything to do with the attendant allegedly feeling "threatened"?
I do.
She clearly overreacted.
hughee99
(16,113 posts)nor any comments from the Airline on the specifics of the incident. You have accepted the passengers account of this as fact, while I'm not convinced the passenger can be considered an objective observer and we have only their side of the story.
I have no doubts the situation was handled poorly, I have some doubts that the situation was exactly how the passenger portrayed it.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)a passenger who insists on getting involved in something that is none of her business, and who continues to use a phone after the announcement that phones were to be turned off, was kicked off of the plane because she was being a pain in the ass in a manner totally unrelated to her BLM T-shirt.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The flight attendant has law on her side. No cell phone calls and having a couple move due to not speaking English is federal law.
brush
(61,033 posts)She said she felt "threatened", yet there was no physical contact.
Seems sort of like all those cops who felt "threatened" and took an innocent black life.
The dialogue from the encounter suggests that the attendant indeed did overreact.
Cezanne says things went left after she questioned the flight attendant after she moved a foreign couple away from their exit row seats. The flight attendant responded that passengers in the exit row must be able to speak English in order to understand procedure in case of an emergency.
When Cezanne continues to speak to the woman next to her about her "concerns," the flight attendant, she says, asked her if she was going to "be a problem
I respond with "Are you going to be a problem? Why would you ask me that?" Then storms off to get a manager. The manager comes to escort me off of the plane. I ask why. She says "because my flight attendant feels threatened. So now I'm stuck in Charlotte. Banned from AA. And no, I do not have $400-$500 to get back home or to my destination today. This is how you can literally be walking away from an officer and be shot dead. Because he "felt threatened."
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You aren't going to hear the other side of the story because AA doesn't argue these things in the press.
Pop quiz:
1. Due to a misunderstanding, a flight attendant asks you if you are going to cause problems. Your answer is:
(a) "No".
(b) Something other than "no".
People get on airplanes in all sorts of conditions and with all sorts of baggage. As noted elsewhere in the thread, yes, people do get argumentative with flight attendants. There is nothing that can be done about that in the air, but if the flight has not yet left the ground, then no flight attendant is going to take the risk of a confrontation escalating once the plane has left the ground.
Pop Quiz question #1 is not that hard.
In all likelihood, the FA had no idea why she was wearing a shirt with a bunch of names on it - because that's all that was on the shirt: a list of names. African Americans - by the THOUSANDS - fly, and work on, airplanes every day without incident. It is unlikely there is a rogue FA running around American throwing off African American passengers on a whim.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)They have every right.
Demanding an explanation and justification of federal law in an airliner from a flight attendant is not reasonable AT ALL. The flight attendant has to do it. She/he does not have obligation to explain to truculent passengers the code sections, when Congress passed it, etc. She doesn't have the duty to know that, or to justify the reasoning. She/he is supposed to know what must be done, and do it. Anyone who interferes with that should be tossed off the plane.
Find a white guy willing to do this. His ass will be off the plane damn quick.
I peg this young lady as, at best, a sincere jerk. At worst, she's an idiot.
romanic
(2,841 posts)I don't buy this girl's story or her "black body" comment. I will be glad to be proven wrong though if there's evidence.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)said nothing of any t-shirt. It mentioned that she was an activist, but the t-shirt story is a new addition.
I've been flying since childhood. People in the exit row must be able to understand English.
If I was flying on a foreign carrier, in no way would I be offended if asked to move from the exit row.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)English is the standard language of aviation by treaty.
Check out Air France, for example:
http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/transverse/footer/edito-option-siege.htm
This provision, undertaken in an effort to facilitate rapid access to emergency exits, notably excludes assignment of these seats to the following persons:
Passengers with reduced mobility (traveling with or without a service animal)
Pregnant women
Passengers whose body mass (waist larger than 135 cm / 53 in) would restrict access to an emergency exit
All infants and children up to and including 11 years of age
Children of any age traveling alone and benefiting from the Kids Solo service
Passengers traveling with a pet in the cabin
Passengers unable to fully understand or communicate in either French or English
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Whatever the law is, I have no problem with it.
No room for political correctness when a plane catches fire, crashes, etc.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Every commercial pilot speaks English, and can give out instructions if needed in English.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)A Lufthansa pilot is taxiing toward the runway at Frankfurt airport and requests clearance in German, and the tower says "English, please."...
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Sure, a german ATC knows German, as does a Lufthansa pilot, but the other 15 planes on approach might not know German.
If ATC is giving instructions, I want to know what he is saying. If he gives a plane permission to take off on a runway I'm currently landing at, its helpful if I can understand that instruction, and hopefully realize the mistake.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)So the pilot says, "I'm a German pilot of a German airline at an airport in Germany! Why do I need to speak English?"
And an American pilot breaks in to say, "Because you lost the war."
liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)on a plane with my "Jesus was a Refugee" t-shirt I got from the Christian Left. Can't wait to see what kind of reaction that would get. I'm a middle-aged white lady, but still, you never know nowadays, when the least little thing can cause problems for you on a flight.
I used to love flying, now I absolutely hate it and only do it if there truly is no other alternative.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Lets be real.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)I'm waiting for a better headline on this story from politicus
malaise
(296,114 posts)There are very clear rules on who can sit at emergency exits.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)See my post #35 above. smh
Democat
(11,617 posts)Sounds like she may have started this with a plan to sue the airline.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)That's not any kind of attempt to diminish the very real dangers black people face on the streets and at the hands of law enforcement, but being escorted off a plane? Come on.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)that people have a hard time believing that this was not partly/mostly to do with her race.
people argue with flight attendant's all the time (move me here, i demand water right now, move six people around so i can sit next to my bff etc.), and rarely if ever do they get kicked off a flight.
2naSalit
(102,793 posts)rules one is not necessarily aware of.
SickOfTheOnePct
(8,710 posts)She doesn't need to be aware of the rules - it was none of her business in any way, shape or form that passengers were being moved from the exit row.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)...and people of all races fly all of the time.
...and flight attendants of all races work at American.
But if you make a phone call after the cabin door is closed, and fail to answer the question "Are you going to cause problems?" with anything other than "no" then, yeah, people of all races - including Alec Baldwin - get taken off.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)And they were all white.
And they were all refusing to comply with the flight attendant's instructions.
The only thing that surprises me, honestly, is that it was a black girl. I've only seen whites be this stupid. What could she have thought was going to happen?
Look, anyone is going to get tossed if you try to obstruct a flight attendant from getting the plane off the ground safely. When they say that piece of luggage has to be stowed, you can't argue. Just stow it. When they tell you to turn off the phone, do it.
Really this is a safety issue.
The dumbest thing I ever saw was this woman (white, believe me, very white) who snuck a little dog onto the plane in this bag, and then let the little critter out once she got on.
liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)wait until you were actually in the air? What did the flight attendant do?
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)delayed in take off.
The passengers were stinking mad. The woman actually argued that it was no safety problem!!! People were staring in awe at this "lady". You know that scene in "Airplane" when the passengers are all lining up to slap the woman in hysterics? Close to that!
Eject-o-matic.
I am glad I don't have to fly any more.
Note that at least this case involved was a younger woman. This passenger had to be in her fifties. Some people never learn. The dog was way nicer than this lady.
I have literally seen parents try to give flight attendants crap when they are trying to properly secure their child. What the heck would happen if they didn't and something happened?
philosslayer
(3,076 posts)I can't remember ever seeing someone argue with a flight attendant.
littlebit
(1,728 posts)because I had on a shirt that said every time you see a rainbow god is having gay sex. Just typing that part makes it sound horrible right? Anyway the rest of the story is another passenger started running their mouth about it and I threatened to kick his sorry fundie ass.
I was able to get on another flight a few hours later but the ticket agent asked me to change shirts.
liberal N proud
(61,194 posts)Happens here all the time.
Just because you don't agree with what someone says or has on their shirt doesn't mean you can prevent them from saying it.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)When you're young, you know everything. Even though the exit door issue didn't involve her, she made herself the issue anyway, because this had to be a race/privilege thing. When you're on a plane, let the people doing their job do their job. Then, instead of accepting that she didn't know everything, she tries to justify her initial reaction.
I'm sure we've all done it in one form or another.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)when told that this was how it worked, she didn't accept it.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)to get someone thrown off the plane for even the slightest of perceived infractions... All they have to do is report it to the captain, and his word is law...
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)conclusion (and she may have been wrong to do that in this case) that race was the issue.
What on earth historically gave her any reason to believe that!
TipTok
(2,474 posts)If you can't behave, why should the rest of us have to be sealed in a big metal tube with you for hours on end?
It's for the benefit of everyone. Don't be an asset and 99.9999% of the time you'll get where you're going.
Blue_Tires
(57,596 posts)there are times when this power can and has been abused... I realize the vast majority of these incidents are probably legit, and I don't know one way or the other what the real story is here...
TipTok
(2,474 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)... And someone looking for an opportunity to cash out and write something on their blog.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)It's because she started arguing about why foreign people were moved away from the exit.
And yes, people who are seated next to an exit door have additional instructions. If a member of the crew doesn't know the language of the people sitting there, then those people have to move.
These are FAA safety regulations, not the airline. And it's not discrimination.
Skittles
(171,716 posts)
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)
B Calm
(28,762 posts)needs looking at.
scioto99
(71 posts)Yeah, I'm sure flight attendants regularly evict passengers over fashion choices. It couldn't have *anything* to do with the passenger interfering with a flight attendant's attempts to ensure everyone's safety and get the plane off the ground on time.
What a moron.
Matrosov
(1,098 posts)Some people are saying she tried to interfere with the flight attendant.
So what?
Is anyone going to argue that the result would've been the same regardless of her race?
The other day a white acquaintance was telling me a story that he thought was really funny: he was getting off the plane and told the nearest attendant that he thought the flight crew was 'the bomb.' She rolled her eyes and said, 'Haha, very funny.'
If that had been a POC cracking a joke about bombs, in how many minutes do you think SWAT would have stormed that flight because of a 'terroristic threat'?
Lurker Deluxe
(1,085 posts)Because getting off the plane and getting on the plane is completely the same. Next time have your friend ask the crew if they are the bomb as they are crossing the threshold getting on the plane.
See what happens then.
Try that comment standing in line at customs, or at baggage check in.
scioto99
(71 posts)Skittles
(171,716 posts)but I bet you can conceive of no situation where the color of a person is a liability
scioto99
(71 posts)as does gender, and as does disability, clothing, handsomeness, height, accent, and the all other things we judge each other on.
The example is still ridiculous.
Your point eludes me.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Yes, she would have got rousted if she were white.
In one case, it was group of what looked like students travelling together. They just refused to comply with with the flight attendant's instructions about their electronics. Three got booted, and then the older guy who was flying with the group tried to argue with her about booting them, and he almost got ejected too. They were not disruptive at all, they just refused to do what she told them.
They tell you twice, if you don't comply, you get one warning, then you are out.
They don't have time to stand there and reason with you.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"interfering with a Flight Attendant" is specifically prohibited by Federal Law.
They even actually CALL it that, "interfering with a Flight Attendant".
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-interference-flight-crew-members-or-flight-attendants-49-usc
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)And yes, people with disabilities or inability to understand instructions are not allowed to be seated in the exit rows.
A person has to be able to pop that door and follow the instructions.
The flight attendant wouldn't move someone for fun - they do it because it is their job, and someone else who persisted in interfering would be a problem.
I'm sure this young lady did not understand that, but if she was interfering with what the flight attendant had to do, she caused her own ejection. Apparently there were two person in the flight crew who saw a problem.