My take on the "gun manufacturer" liability argument.

[Jnew28]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

If gun manufactures are held liable for gun deaths, then what's stopping this movement from attaching the same rationale to gun and bat producers (considering the associated FBI crime statistics)? It's just another way for the government to generate revenue - costs will be passed onto the consumer, which in essence is another state mandated penalty.

Or, one could use a proximate cause argument: how far down the line is a gun manufacturer liable if the gun is sold to a legal owner, but in the end it end up in the hands of a criminal (whether sold or stolen)? Was that foreseeable? It's just too much of a stretch. Most gun owners are responsible so it's not really a cogent presumption.

Now, it's a "product defect," that's a whole different story.

http://stupidpartymathvmyth.com/1/post/2015/06/bernard-bernie-sanders-the-political-foresight-champion.html

[onecaliberal]

1. What about cars

[Jnew28]

2. Exactly...

You could add that as well - if it's a product liability issue that causes a wreck, then they should be able to be sued. On the other hand, if it's the consumers fault, then they shouldn't have legal standing as it's not the automaker's fault.

[Jnew28]

4. But they would likely counter with...

...well, cars aren't created with the intent to harm when compared with knives and guns. Different fundamental intent.

[onecaliberal]

10. Weak tea argument, gun possession is protected in the constitution

[LisaM]

3. When did DU go pro gun?

Seriously, there have been multiple posts taking the side of the NRA and gun manufacturers. Meanwhile there is about one story a week of toddlers shooting off guns and killing or injuring family members.

[Jnew28]

6. It's not pro-gun...

....I still favor gun control by far. But it's not necessarily a strong argument to blame manufacturers for mass murders as most gun owners are responsible. It's just not cogent. How many responsible gun owners are there compared to how many people commit crimes with firearms? That's the question to answer.

[LisaM]

9. Frankly, what will work?

The NRA resists every attempt at safety measures.

[Jnew28]

15. Sadly...

A change in Constitutional interpretation or a Constitutional Amendment - the latter being virtually impossible in the current political climate.

[onehandle]

7. Anti-Hillary is Pro-Gun.

The 'Not Hillary' Party has teamed up with the NRA, The Republican Party, and all right-wing media at so-called 'Democratic' Underground.

[Jnew28]

11. Hillary had the lowest point of her campaign by attacking Sanders for Sandy Hook.

The logic behind her argument is ludicrous - can we blame legislators for the deaths of innocent civilians and military deaths if they vote in favor of a fabricated war? Why doesn't she do that? She voted for the War in Iraq, which is still contributing to deaths in the Middle East.

And how about her meeting with the NRA? If she's so anti-gun then why meet with this incredibly partisan group?

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/01/nra-lobbyist-will-co-host-clinton-fundraiser/

[rgbecker]

20. Lowest so far....

We'll be meeting in the basement soon to hear her next attack.

[onecaliberal]

14. That argument is full of shit. We're not pro gun and a senator with a D- rating from the NRA isn't

Either. It's common sense.

[NutmegYankee]

18. There have always been large numbers of Democrats who are "pro-gun".

It's a key reason the admins have never banned them. Guns are an urban/rural culture war item that is one of the unusual positions taken by some left leaning people - normally the party of the left supports strengthening individual liberty over the demands of social order, which tended to serve religious or moral viewpoints. Leaving guns in the hands of the common people is a classic leftwing political theory - power to the people. Stripping them from the common person and allowing only the wealthy and well connected to own guns is a classic rightwing political theory. There is a reason it was the Rightwing government in Australia that got their laws changed.

Guns have been associated with the rightwing in US politics in the last few decades only because the parties have aligned somewhat on the urban/rural divide and many rural people view the right to own guns as an example where the little people, otherwise powerless and exploited, are empowered and trusted by the government. Take away that trust and power, and they are just the poor worthless people that urban society ascribes to them.

[Jnew28]

22. Excellent response.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

5. If you sell a product that is legal to sell, then is it defective?

You can always sue, otherwise - pardon me while I take another swig/

[Jnew28]

8. Not if it's functioning in the intended manner.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

13. Then you can sue right now.

[Jnew28]

16. Well, a person using illegally using a weapon isn't a product liability suit...

As the gun worked in the "intended manner," i.e., to harm something. It should remain in the criminal realm.

[cantbeserious]

12. Agreed - It Is Not Sensible To Hold The Manufacturer Responsible For Faulty Product Use

eom

[Jnew28]

17. I know - it's not a strong argument. n/t

[moondust]

19. And kitchen carving knives!

And rocks! Who can we get for making the rocks used to bash in peoples' skulls?

And pillows! Too many people have been smothered with pillows! Let's get the pillow manufacturers! Get 'em!!!!

Even a huge gun control advocate like myself can still recognize really bad logic that seems to be based in grief and helplessness. And political opportunism.

[Jnew28]

21. They want to take advantage of every opportunity - it's sickening.

[gratuitous]

23. We regulate and restrict sales of legal items all the time

Why are guns exempt?

[Jnew28]

24. Of course - but do we sue the manufacturers in the instance of human criminality?

No. What's the compelling interest of suing the companies when the vast majority of gun owners don't commit crimes?

[Omaha Steve]

25. Locking after a review by forum hosts

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