Do folks think all bathrooms should be de-gendered?

[oberliner]

Cooper Union has made all bathrooms gender neutral. That is to say anyone of any gender can use any bathroom. Do folks think that is the way of the future? I am curious to know people's thoughts.

Here's an article on the topic:

No More Men's or Women's Rooms

Just one week before North Carolina passed a bill restricting transgender access to bathrooms at public colleges in the state, a college president in New York City announced his institution would be moving in exactly the opposite direction.

Bill Mea, acting president of the Cooper Union, informed his campus via email that soon all the college's bathrooms will be gender neutral. Anyone will be allowed to use any bathroom, and the signs designating bathrooms for either men or women will be replaced with signs that say either “Restroom With Urinals and Stalls,” “Restroom With Only Stalls” or “Restroom Single Occupancy.”

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/03/31/cooper-union-makes-all-bathrooms-gender-neutral

[daleanime]

1. Works for me, I really don't care who is doing whatever next to me....

as long as their stance isn't too wide.

[AgingAmerican]

145. We have degendered bathrooms at work

The door locks and only one person at a time can use them. Problem solved.

[PatrickforO]

2. Non-issue except for the 'christians'

Europe has been doing this for years. Bathrooms aren't sexy. People go in there to pee and poop. That's it.

[oberliner]

4. Europe has all de-gendered bathrooms?

Or is it just certain countries?

[PatrickforO]

15. Well nobody has ALL anything.

But I'll tell you a funny story. Back in 95, when America was still mostly a 'great' country, I traveled to the Netherlands. The Dutch are a great people. They really are. I had a blast there, met so many really cool people, and learned all about their job training system.

There was one thing, though, that just drove me nuts. They didn't have any public restrooms. You had to ask, and then go in and pay to use the facilities.

So, about the second week, we ended up near the pier at Scheveningen. It was so cool, because there's a place there called 'the Panorama Mesdag (I've included a pic, because it's REALLY cool!).

https://az694511.vo.msecnd.net/image-cdn/7e345173-5827-4094-8e53-9cdf8c46a490

Anyway, later we were walking around and saw a Burger King! Wow, I thought, this is great! I've been here two weeks already and have had lots of Indonesian food, satay and frites, but now here I can buy a burger and some fries. And more important, I though, I can use the restroom! I can have a REAL American bathroom experience! Wow. My pace quickened in anticipation.

In the Burger King, we ordered and then I made a beeline for the restroom. I walked in and...

Shit...there was a chunky lady in there smoking a cigarette. In fact, the whole place was filled with cigarette smoke. And she had a brass bowl. She looked at me and pointed to the bowl. I had to pay!

For some reason, maybe because I was so disappointed after that anticipation, this memory has stuck with me.

Honestly, do you REALLY care if a bathroom is unisex? Really?

And do you REALLY care if a trans person uses the same bathroom? Really?

Because trans people go through all kinds of shit. I guess it's downright dangerous to be a trans person. And the idea that after taking all that crap just to be who they are, someone's gonna go into a public bathroom and expose themselves? That's just SUCH bullshit.

[oberliner]

19. I just wasn't sure if it was the norm in some European countries

Do you know if it is?

By the way, that was quite a story!

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. The UK tends to have separate-gender facilities

(unless it's someplace that only has one toilet for customers in which case it's unisex, but also single-occupancy)

[Boudica the Lyoness]

113. Yes, the UK is civilized.

[Odin2005]

52. I find it horrifying that you have to pay to use public restrooms in Europe.

[oberliner]

59. Have you ever been to New York City?

You have to pay to use most public restrooms in Manhattan.

[RKP5637]

79. Yep, I remember years ago searching for a dime in my pocket to put in the lock and then turn

the little chrome knob to unlock the stall. And that was decades and decades ago. I can't recall where I used to encounter them a lot, maybe NYC, Philly or both. And they were quite common.

[oberliner]

84. They are still quite common in NYC

Can't speak for other places.

[RKP5637]

85. Oops, I left that out, definitely still common in NYC. n/t

[a la izquierda]

74. THat's pretty standard all over the world...

Latin America has pay-to-pee bathrooms. So did Spain and Germany (at least in some places).

[JVS]

109. Some are free, but they're often absolute shitholes.

[EdwardBernays]

203. Go to any public toilet in Germany

that costs money, and you'll be AMAZED at how clean it is... I'd MUCH rather pay a few cent to use a CLEAN toilet than use many of the disgusting free toilets I've seen in America.

[kimbutgar]

230. Something in italy

Open neutral bathrooms and it costs 1 Euro to bathroom. I had to go so bad I walked a long distance to find a bathroom. We finally stopped at a restaurant and when I went in it was a hole in the floor where you had to squat. Luckily they had handles on both sides.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

90. Nope. I've been to Paris, a few cities in Italy, London, Madrid,

Budapest, Prague and always used the men's room because there are no boys and girls use at the same time restrooms.

[HuckleB]

164. Not even close.

[EdwardBernays]

202. it's a mix

but I've run across them in France, Germany the UK And Ireland... and I know they exist in Scandinavia to some degree as well... not a big deal.

[Drahthaardogs]

235. I have seen the line at women's bathrooms, and I want no part of it.

Group urinals save lots of time. I don't want them to go away but I don't see how they would work in a dual sex bathroom. Yes, I am selfish but it is one perk of being male that I will embrace without shame!

[bigwillq]

3. Yes (nt)

[katsy]

5. Yep.

Take out all urinals. Not necessary.

[Nye Bevan]

8. That's a very environmentally unfriendly suggestion.

Urinals use much less water than stalls. And some especially "green" ones use no water. Your suggestion would result in public bathrooms wasting hugely more water compared to now.

How about removing all "Men" and "Women" signs and replacing them with "Bathroom with Urinals" and "Bathroom without Urinals"? Both would still have stalls. Then anyone can use either bathroom, but those who do not want to see anyone using a urinal doesn't have to.

[backscatter712]

34. There are places that do that. Works just fine. n/t

[revbones]

55. Why not just put up stall walls and doors around the urinals if they keep them?

Some places at least have walls between urinals, and I welcome them. I hate when I'm urinating next to some idiot that wants to have a conversation. I'd be cool with stalls for urinals - just mark them clearly.

[scscholar]

228. This. Men should use urinals

[Travis_0004]

23. hell no

Im not llifting up a toilet seat every time I have to pee.

Urinals are faster and use less (or no) water, and they take up less space. If you had to retofit all stalls you would end up with longer lines at the bathroom.

[katsy]

144. Fine. But if you go

gender neutral bathrooms put urinals in stalls.

NBD... Just putting out an opinion.

As a femme I don't give a chit as long as some guy isn't out in the open whipping his dick out when I walk my daughter to the bathroom.

[GoneOffShore]

169. Went into a new motorway rest area on the E80.

Toilets didn't have lift up seats.

Just the porcelain.

[greymouse]

215. besides, men are slobs

sorry, but the toilet in my house is off limits to workmen. I got very tired very quickly of scrubbing down the walls, floor, and toilet itself.

[anigbrowl]

141. That would slow things down and create longer lines

Urinals are a convenience, just like sanitary pad dispensers and baby-changing tables. I'm fine with restrooms having more rather than fewer options.

[pnwmom]

6. Not if it means I have to walk my daughter past men using urinals, in order to get to the stalls.

And I doubt that most men would be thrilled with that situation, either.

[oberliner]

10. Would you be OK with her using an all-stall bathroom?

Even if there were men using some of the stalls?

[pnwmom]

16. If the stalls were fully enclosed that would be fine. n/t

[krawhitham]

82. That would work, but it would also cost a lot

Rework plumbing would not be cheap, plus most men's restrooms are smaller because they do not need as many stalls


Going forward they should make all new restrooms unisex, but converting old ones all across America would be rather expensive



All that said I've been using restrooms with urinals for more than 40 years and I have never once seen someone else's junk in a restroom

[Nye Bevan]

13. Just go into the one that says "Restroom with stalls only" (i.e. no urinals).

This actually also makes it less awkward for a father to take his young daughter into a public restroom.

[pnwmom]

20. If they're going to do this they should eliminate urinals everywhere.

Otherwise, men would be comfortable in and access all bathrooms, while most women would be avoiding the ones with urinals -- so would have access to only half the bathrooms.

[Nye Bevan]

22. Can't do it, that would be incredibly bad for the environment.

Urinals use a fraction of the water that stalls do, and eliminating them would result in a massive amount of water being wasted.

And I don't think it's necessarily true that most women would avoid the bathrooms with urinals. It's really not that easy to see penises in there.

[pnwmom]

44. Then screen then off. But there wouldn't be equal access if you're expecting all women

to feel comfortable using bathrooms that require them to walk past men using urinals.

And if you think that's a small number, just think of the fraction of girls and women who have been sexually abused, and then add to that fraction all the other women who care about them.

[dchill]

53. That should be a universal rule anyway.

And I say that as a man who has found them disgusting and unsanitary for a long time. All the bathrooms on my house (2) have always been de-gendered and urinal-free.

[petronius]

7. Generally yes, but it's not just a matter of changing the signs

I think the stalls should be shared, and men should only use them when they need to be seated, but the traffic pattern into the restroom should maintain privacy--screening the urinals from the path to/from stalls and sinks--and the stalls should be full doors...

[Nye Bevan]

11. Urinals generally have pretty good dividers so you can't really see someone's genitals (nt)

[petronius]

18. Yes, I know what usually can and can't--absent effort--be seen in the urinal

line-up (I'm a guy, I've spent my share of time there). And my preference would be that the traffic flows and 'areas of operation' be as little mingled as possible for the comfort and privacy* of all users.

* Although for me, personally, I don't really care who sees what. It's just not a big deal to me...

[pnwmom]

45. Thank you. And as a woman and as a mother, I'd prefer not to have to walk past urinal users

on the way to a stall.

I really do appreciate your sensitivity on this issue.

[Nye Bevan]

77. As a guy I had to take my daughters into bathrooms with urinals many times when they were young,

when I had taken them somewhere without my wife.

Somehow they seem to have survived those experiences without any lasting psychological scars.

[zazen]

206. I know you mean well but you're being really insensitive to reality of male sexual abuse

It's not just the attempted and actual sexual abuse predominantly females have faced (lots of young boys have too) by predominantly males. It's that if this happens with the frequency it does, then it is logical if you are the prior victim/target to be suspicious of all males and take measures to make yourself feel safe.

[smirkymonkey]

218. +1000

[MH1]

9. Works for me ok, but even better,

where space permits, there is nothing wrong with separate men's, women's and degendered "family" bathrooms. I think the latter supports everyone and is the best approach where space permits. For example, large office buildings, shopping malls, sports venues, stuff like that. For smaller restaurants I'm agnostic on the subject, as long as no one gets hassled except for actual bad behavior. I think in that case, degendered bathrooms are probably best. Especially if they are single occupancy to start with (i.e. not multiple stalls).

[oberliner]

12. Assuming the bathrooms are not single occupancy and are multiple stalls

Would you be less than agnostic in that situation?

I know that several colleges are discussing this very topic, and the bathrooms in most cases would not be singles.

[MH1]

73. Like I said, if possible have all three. If not possible, I'm ok with the degendered approach.

I've actually never been concerned with someone's "gender at birth" or whatever the eff it's being called. I take someone's gender at "face value" - whatever they present to the world. If it seems ambiguous, well that's none of my business. Not fitting society's norms as to how to present their gender to the world is also a choice that I strongly support. If someone walks into a bathroom I'm in and isn't very obviously the "wrong" gender I would ignore it. If they seem to have made a mistake that will be embarrassing to them ... well they usually figure that out on their own right away anyway, so again, no reason for me to be concerned about it.

I just don't see the point in making an issue of it where none exists. The "family" bathroom is useful for other reasons - particularly when an opposite gender parent needs to accompany a child. So why not just use that where possible?

Oh and in case it wasn't clear, I'm totally against the bullshit NC law. I think it's a trumped up issue having no factual cause related to actual transgender people, it has to do with some pervert(s) who committed a crime and someone wrote a stupid law that has the effect of taking it out on transgenders. Oh and the actual pervert trigger is conflated by some people with their concept of "queers" that does make transgenders a target of the law for those folks. But I think these people are stupid and bigoted and need to get a life, if they have time to worry about whether that gal who just came into the ladies room is "really a gal". I mean come on. (That said, not being transgender I might be missing something here, but it seems simple enough to use the bathroom that matches the gender you're presenting, and if you're presenting ambiguously, pick the one that's closest. Then most people won't even notice.)

[dogman]

14. Dennis Hastert used the men's room, why not?

[CrispyQ]

17. Yes.

I read a book once where a woman successfully hid from the bad guy in a men's bathroom. He never thought to search there for her, even though he searched the women's bathrooms. So, yes, keep them gendered, if only for that one time . . .

[LiberalElite]

24. I may start a controversy here but - I could be wrong but I don't think it would work for

members of religions that maintain gender separation.

[Nye Bevan]

28. And some religions disapprove of women with uncovered arms.

Should we cater to their beliefs and force all women to wear long sleeves?

[AgadorSparticus]

65. I hadn't thought of that. You bring up an interesting point...

[oberliner]

29. Interesting point

I wonder if any religious students at colleges where this has been implemented would raise that issue (or have already done so).

[backscatter712]

31. Religions that force gender separation are fucking stupid. n/t

[GoneOffShore]

167. And scene.

[Codeine]

38. Can't really say that I give two tugs of dead dog's dick about those beliefs. nt

[LiberalElite]

39. you know what, it would be nice if you did for the simple reason

that you would want them "giving two tugs of a dead dog's dick" about your beliefs. Do unto others and all that religious stuff.

[backscatter712]

94. The religions that pull that garbage don't give a flying fuck about our beliefs, or lack thereof.

They're champing at the bit to force their stupid beliefs down our throats, so fuck 'em.

[zappaman]

166. Yup.

[HERVEPA]

61. Tough crap (so to speak)

[Skittles]

66. there should be three bathrooms

male, female, both

gives everyone a choice

[dembotoz]

25. no i like the idea that at a big event the mens room is quick in quick out

it would not be happy for me to wait in line forever that way womens rest rooms seem to be.

does that make me a sexist creep?

oh well

[Warpy]

27. Only if you don't address "potty parity."

The lines are long simply because the wall of urinals isn't separated by stalls and that means there's room for more of them. In addition, it does take us a little longer to 'go' because of clothing in the way, the need to wipe, and the need to replace said clothing.

[Skittles]

69. and very often, the need to deal with children

[Warpy]

72. Oh, gawd yes

Nothing slows us down like cranky, dawdling children.

[Warpy]

26. Bathrooms at work in the hspital were always genderless

It might work less well at sports venues where large quantities of beer are consumed. You kind of want separation with a wall of urinals in one of them.

Creepers and perverts already try to hide in stalls in the women's room. Genderless bathrooms wouldn't increase them, IMO, and might even discourage them if boyfriends and spouses were already there, ready to pound them into the floor like tent pegs if they misbehave.

[peace13]

107. Interesting last paragraph.

What about those who don't have a peg pounder? I guess she just takes her chances.

[Warpy]

138. Pervs can never be sure of that, can they?

We're already taking our chances no matter where we are, even in our own homes.

Think about that for a minute.

[XemaSab]

30. No, I think there should be separate restrooms for women and transpeople

If I go into the bathroom at the rest stop (or wherever) and some creeper is hanging out in there, that's not ok.

The number of transpeople is so low that I don't care what bathroom they use, but the number of male perverts is much, much higher.

[backscatter712]

32. As it turns out, more Republican lawmakers have been arrested for bathroom crimes than trans people.

http://www.thegailygrind.com/2016/03/31/more-republicans-lawmakers-have-been-arrested-for-bathroom-misconduct-than-trans-people/

I think Republicans should be required to use separate bathrooms.

[silverweb]

33. I accidentally used a men's room one time.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]A number of years ago, I was going to a job interview and by the time I got to the building, I had to find a restroom fast. Going into the first one I saw - not noticing that it had a male icon on the door - I walked right past the urinals in the empty room without noticing them and headed for a stall.

Someone else came in while I was there and I thought nothing of it, went to wash my hands and only then noticed the urinals - and that the shoes showing under the nearest stall were large men's shoes.

After a flustered moment of embarrassed realization, although no one else at all saw my blunder, I laughed all the way upstairs to my interview.

As long as there are stalls-only or single-occupancy choices, I have no problem at all with gender-neutral bathrooms.

[Texasgal]

35. Americans have such hang ups with bathrooms!

GAH!

Years ago I did a medical mission trip to Honduras. The people that lived in this area did not have a sewer system. There was a communal area where people urinated and defecated, almost like a large horse trough. No body freaked out over penis's or vaginas! They went and did there business! Hell, they even had a community bath house with stalls all lined up, kids, men and women all went in to bathe daily.

There are places all around the world that have set ups like this! People need to get a grip!

[Nye Bevan]

37. I know, is it the end of the world if someone glimpses a penis? (nt)

[yardwork]

40. Apparently so. Americans seem to have a lot of hang ups.

[pnwmom]

49. Were you sexually abused as a girl or young woman? Millions of young girls have been.

And they are probably more sensitive about this than you are.

Unscreened urinals do not belong in restrooms that women and girls are expected to use.

[zazen]

209. totally agree n/t

[Boudica the Lyoness]

102. Well it could be the end of the world

for someone when they are caught eyeballing/checking out someone's boyfriend/husband's dick.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. yes.

[oberliner]

41. That seems to be the popular choice

By quite a wide margin thus far.

[Reter]

42. I think showers and locker rooms should be gender neutral as well

I just don't see the problem with nudity. If someone touches someone else, arrest him (or her). Make the penalty huge even, but no more sex segregation.

[Nye Bevan]

43. Perhaps "Men" and "Women" signs will seem as archaic as "White" and "Colored",

a few years in the future.

[oberliner]

48. Do you really think so?

Just a few years in the future?

[Nye Bevan]

111. Already in more and more places they have no legal meaning.

When it is impossible to prosecute anyone for being in the "wrong" bathroom, the signs become merely suggestions as opposed to requirements. So the next step is to question why the signs are needed at all, except to advise people which restrooms contain urinals.

[oberliner]

112. I do think we are heading in that direction

I just don't see it happening as quickly as you do. I could be wrong though!

[Nye Bevan]

114. Well, I didn't actually say that I expect it to happen soon.

I said "perhaps". Maybe it will, or on the other hand there may be a backlash. Even in this thread, on a progressive discussion board, I am seeing some pushback against the concept.

[oberliner]

115. You suggested that men/women restrooms could be as archaic as white/colored

A few years in the future (perhaps). That's a pretty bold prediction!

On this thread, the majority of people responding have come out in support of de-gendered bathrooms, so I take that as a positive sign.

Of course there will be some pushback even among some progressives, as there was during the Civil Rights era.

[zazen]

208. we can't erase reality of male violence against women with new names

On the one hand, we're making things transgender because there's a recognition that gender and sex differences are real. Beyond that, power differences mediated through sexuality (sexual abuse) are quite real.

So just saying presto and eliminating the names "men" and "women" isn't going to actually change things, because it's only erasing the named difference while doing nothing to protect the less powerful group (biological females) from predation by a sizable minority of the privileged class.

We need to protect rights of transgendered persons without denying the reality and pervasiveness of male sexual violence and harassment of women and the steps women are required to take to cope with this reality.

[smirkymonkey]

219. This!

[pnwmom]

47. Not everyone has zero sense of privacy -- especially people who have been sexually abused.

The fact that you personally, don't care about nudity doesn't mean that you can't respect other people who choose to be private.

[goldent]

128. Mixed gender showers would be cruel to some.

There are people who are very uncomfortable even going into same-sex showers. I imagine mixed gender will heighten the anxiety, they would have to either get tough or do without showers.

Maybe this is just the price of "freedom."

[EL34x4]

129. Yes, plenty of middle-aged men would love to shower...

...with teenage girls at the gym.

After all, if they aren't touching them, what's the problem?

[uponit7771]

163. +1, the people who support this seem to not have grade school children

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

192. And a flabby middle-aged woman showering with teen boys?

We live in a cruel, cruel world.

No, thanks. I can just hear the mean comments, now.

I swear some people don't have the sense they were born with.

[RobinA]

46. No Thanks

I prefer to use the ladies room. Especially a stall type place. I probably wouldn't use an ungendered stall bathroom unless I had to.

[Odin2005]

50. I think so, sadly, I don't see it happening.

the ERA was killed exactly because of hysteria and idiotic moral panic about mandatory unisex bathrooms spewed by opponents like Phyllis Schlaffly.

[BlueMTexpat]

51. Yes. eom

[Mary Mac]

54. as a tarheel I have had occasion to think about this

One single occupancy unisex bathroom per building should do the trick.

[liberalfromaustin21]

56. Don't really have a problem with it myself

Unfortunate that other people aren't so accepting..

[Jeffersons Ghost]

57. Here is your 5th rec and YES!

[SheilaT]

58. I can see it now.

Men would either not bother to put up the seat, getting pee all over where the next woman is going to be sitting, or they won't bother to put them down.

Keep them gendered or make them all their own separate rooms. I have a fairly strong sense of privacy and I would not want to walk into a room with stalls and both men and women milling around. Or have to watch men urinate before I can slip inside a stall myself.

All of you who are perfectly comfortable peeing and pooping regardless of who's there alongside you, that's great for you. But not for everyone.

Plus, I'm old enough that I can just about imagine some elderly woman being bothered by some creep if she has the misfortune to be in a restroom alone with him.

And, women complain all the time about a mom who brings her ten or twelve year old son into the restroom with her, or a man who brings his young daughter into the men's room.

Any restroom that is just the one cubicle can be gender free. Otherwise, no thank you.

[laundry_queen]

64. I agree

We are trying this little experiment at my workplace right now and it is failing big time (although it's not some grand social experiment, my company is just to cheap to supply the minimum amount of restrooms they should be supplying according to labor laws, but I digress...)

There are a bunch of us that share 1 bathroom - women outnumber the men 3 to 1.

I say until all other things in society are equal - where men grow up valuing learning to clean up after themselves and not having females in their lives do it for them - I prefer the separate bathrooms. While many of the men are just fine, a majority still refuse to clean up after themselves despite meetings, warnings and signs in the bathrooms about cleanliness. There is constantly feces inside the bowl, urine all over the seat, even liquid feces all over the seat, pubes on all over the seat, water splashed everywhere. We are a smaller office so we know who the culprits are so we know it's several of the men and none of the women.

Don't get me wrong - women can sometimes be gross to but the order of magnitude does not compare. The women often talk of having to clean the bathroom before we can even 'go'. This is an office full of professionals with degrees. None of us women want to be having to clean up after the men and many of us see it as a sexist issue.

And then there is the time spent in the bathroom - when men go in to 'read a magazine' they will take up to 30 minutes. We have 1 bathroom and often some of us women will get tired of waiting and will run to the restaurant next door to use their facilities (they allow us because we spend a ton of money at lunchtimes, lol). Even though the women vastly outnumber the men, it's the men that seem to have a monopoly on bathroom time. It's like there is no consideration for the rest of us that are waiting. Although, I do know this is because we just simply do not have enough bathrooms for the number of employees, more gender-neutral bathrooms would solve this issue, so this is more of a lack of bathroom issue, maybe not as much of a gender issue, but I could get into my thoughts on how the men act how they are entitled to bathroom time, whereas the women are constantly trying to hurry through it, apologizing to anyone waiting. Bathroom & gender dynamics at my workplace are pretty fascinating, lol.

Of course, this is just my small set of experiences. For instance, I know the males in my immediate family would be absolutely disgusted with the behavior of the males at my workplace and would never leave a restroom in such a condition - but unfortunately many men are not like that (in my family, the men clean the home as much as the women, there is no gender split there. In my ex-husband's family, the men never did any cleaning at all. Let's just say it was an issue in our marriage for certain, and I don't think his family is an anomaly). But I can see it now - I mean, the men in my office still refuse to clean up after themselves even when it's obvious who is making the messes, can you imagine the messes if they were completely anonymous? My ex did tell me horror stories about the state of many men's public restrooms. Not sure I'm ready for that....

Perhaps the solution is 3 bathrooms, men, women and gender-free. Or just a bunch of single, separate bathrooms instead of a large room with stalls.

[SheilaT]

68. Yes. You nailed it.

Perhaps the solution is 3 bathrooms, men, women and gender-free. Or just a bunch of single, separate bathrooms instead of a large room with stalls.

[oberliner]

83. That seems logistically impossible

Creating a bunch of single separate bathrooms does not seem like a feasible idea.

[SheilaT]

147. I do recognize that it's not entirely feasible

to create a whole lot of separate bathrooms, but I would not be remotely comfortable using a public multi-stall restroom with men. Maybe they are all just fine with sharing with women, and I'm sure a decent number of women don't mind sharing with men, but as I said above, my sense of personal privacy is very strong.

So three choices: men's, women's, no gender specified, ought to work just fine.

It really is bad enough that between anatomical and child minding differences, women's facilities are often inadequate. Don't tell me that the solution is I get to go to the bathroom with lots of random men also.

Again, I see all sorts of problem far beyond the simple usage of the facilities by all.

[whistler162]

146. At my previous job there was

three bathrooms - men's, woiman's, and handicapped(essentially gender neutral).

Reading through the thread about who has messier bathrooms - http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027749877 well let just say NO COMMENT!!!!!!

[Turin_C3PO]

134. My experience is different.

I was a housekeeper/janitor for a hospital for a long time and women's restrooms were usually, far worse than men's.

[Humanist_Activist]

80. Having been a janitor in quite a few places, public women's restrooms are generally disgusting...

with pee all over the toliets and tampons discarded carelessly. Generally speaking, the men's restrooms worst offenses is pee on the floor around urinals. Not fun, but not nearly as bad as women's restrooms.

[smirkymonkey]

197. I'm completely with you.

It seems like most of the people here who are all for it are men.

[jberryhill]

60. It's a simple matter of architecture

[pnwmom]

71. And an un-simple matter of cost. n/t

[AgadorSparticus]

67. I would like to say yes because quite honestly that would be a SCOOOOORE! for women

Everywhere. I am tired of always having to wait in long lines to get into the women's restrooms. But the truth is, I don't want to take my daughter into a restroom with men using urinals or men in there period. It is a little too awkward. And besides, if there are no urinals, I REALLY don't want to share restrooms with men. I have had plenty of boyfriends and know how well you guys can aim. Yea. No, thanks.

[Nye Bevan]

76. As a guy, when my daughters were young I had to take them into restrooms with urinals many times.

It's really not as horrifying as some here suggest.

[HockeyMom]

98. Family Restrooms

I've seen those at Welcome Centers and Rest Stops on the highway. That is what the sign says. It is a picture of a man and woman with a baby. There is a baby changing table in there besides a single toilet.

I love this idea. Daddy too can change his baby or take his older child of either gender to the toilet without any other person in there. Again, just lock the outside door.

[AgadorSparticus]

142. I like those too!!

[AngryOldDem]

88. Doors can be put around urinals.

And as for "aim," that is also a two-way street.

[goldent]

70. Sounds like Cooper Union is mainly changing the wording on the signs

but everything else stays the same. Lots of bars do funny signs in place of "men" and "women" also.

[oberliner]

75. That is not what they are doing

I suggest you read the article in full.

[EdwardBernays]

78. Very common

In Europe. Well I've seen it all over the place.

Not a big deal.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

193. I've been through quite a bit of Europe

and I've never run across multi-stalled, unisex bathrooms.

[EdwardBernays]

194. I've seen them

In Germany, France, the UK and in Ireland where I live. In fact in Ireland I can think of at least 5 places that have them.

They seem normal enough to me.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

217. I have seen them in very small commercial buildings

But that is about it, nowhere I would define as "public"

[Android3.14]

81. All I can say is that

Ladies, you don't want me in the adjacent stall.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

86. Prediction: most will become Men's Only by default unless everyone is super drunk, when women have

no problem walking in to a restroom full of drunk men.

[EL34x4]

210. Yep. In an effort to appear "progressive" on the issue,

A lot of women will hold it until they get home.

[AngryOldDem]

87. Yes.

A few weeks ago before a race, I had to go. I mean REALLY go. The line for the women's restroom went on for seeming miles. Meanwhile, no waiting for the men's. Some guy walked out and snarked at us, "I bet you wish you were all guys." The same is true during intermissions at the theater or concerts. You hope you have enough time to get back to your seat after intermission.

When I have to use the john, I couldn't care less who's in the room with me. I have other, much more pressing concerns, if you get my meaning.

[kpete]

89. yes

[gollygee]

91. No

I'm absolutely fine with transgender people using whichever restroom they feel most comfortable in. However, that does not mean I want to do away with gendered restrooms. I think this post just feeds into the fears that the right wing is playing on. Allowing transgender people to use the restrooms that match their identified gender does not mean that we have to do away with gendered restrooms.

[oberliner]

95. There is nothing to fear

In Cooper Union, there has been total support for the change to de-gendered restrooms. Just because you don't want to do away with gendered restrooms, doesn't mean that others don't. This is something that is happening at many college campuses and is the direction we are headed. Maybe you need to reflect on why you have a problem with it?

From the article:

L, one of the students who pushed for the change (and asked to be referred to only as L), said removing gender distinctions entirely helps transgender students in a way simply allowing them to use men’s or women’s bathrooms does not.

“Even if it is legal, I have been followed and harassed going into either bathroom because I don’t present as gender conforming. I’ll get assaulted whether it’s illegal or not,” L said

Maybe you should consider what transgender people actually want, rather than what you think they should want.

[HockeyMom]

92. "Restroom Single Occupancy"

Yet, they mark these too as Men's or Women's. Why? What is the point if there is only one toilet in there and the occupant locks the door to the outside? Many a time on the road driving back and forth from Florida to NY, my husband and I have used the opposite gender's bathroom when there was a long line at our own gender and the other one was empty. My husband has gotten stranger looks than I have. "When you gotta go, you gotta go", he would smile at the woman waiting outside.

Yes, this has happened at places in North Carolina too. What are they going to do? Place a Guard at these single person Men's and Women's Restrooms checking genders?

[oberliner]

96. I've never understood that

Why are single occupancy restrooms designated for one gender or another? That has never made sense to me either.

[MrMickeysMom]

93. When we paid membership in the 80's for "European Health Spa", I had chance to participate in this..

I didn't particularly like it, but I'm not sure anyone would like to take a dump next to the person, run out of T.P. and ask for some to be shoved under the door like some episode of Seinfeld.

I'll pass...

[oberliner]

97. Why does it matter what the gender is of the person in the next stall?

You would be OK with asking a woman for toilet paper but not a man? That doesn't make sense to me.

[MrMickeysMom]

104. I'm not comfortable with either, truthfully...

That's probably my American acculturation of bathrooms and bathing. I wouldn't feel comfortable walking around naked in a shower, nor would I feel comfortable walking around naked in a nudist camp.

That's my own limitation, and I realize it's probably a weakness or fault on my part. That's why I found the episode on Seinfeld with the T.P. so funny!

[oberliner]

108. Understood

I certainly wouldn't be comfortable either way - but I don't think the gender of the person next to me would make a difference.

And that was a really funny episode!

[HockeyMom]

125. Not to get OT, but what about other women breastfeeding?

I am talking about in a Women's Restroom Lounge area. Decades ago I received many nasty comments about nursing my daughter there. I was not about to sit on a toilet behind a closed door to nurse my baby in a Women's Restroom. No woman is not seeing anything (boobs) she hasn't seen before. Yet, women would not hesitate to strip and change their clothes in front of other women?

If you have children who play high level/college sports, or are an adult pro athlete, you will be showering with same sex members of your team. That is a given.

[MrMickeysMom]

135. Heck, I don't consider that in the same league with micturition and defecation...

I think I know what your point was.

In fact, I think that's why you'll see more and more rest rooms with an anti area before the stalls, if it's in a dept store.

[Yo_Mama]

99. I don't, too risky. n/t

[bemildred]

100. As long as I dont have to watch them take a crap, I don't care. nt

[peacebird]

101. In europe there were gender free bathrooms, it wasn't a problem

Except I would prefer the urinals were placed beyond the stalls, instead of walking behind the men on my way to a stall.... But that was only in one small town.

[Calista241]

103. I think for most adults this matters very little, aside from the cleanliness aspect.

The problem people will bring up is for younger pre-teens and early teenagers. Body image and the judgement of their peers is crucial in those years, and the thought of a trans person interacting with them in a bathroom or locker room could cause extreme amounts of anxiety for that age group.

[oberliner]

106. How would you address that situation for young people?

What do you think the policy should be regarding school locker rooms regarding gender identification?

[Calista241]

127. I think they'll go to Boys, Girls and then have single bathrooms without restrictions.

Admittedly I'm not fully informed on the actual process of transitioning, but I don't think doctors would perform such a transition on someone that young (> 15 years or so).

[peace13]

105. Think alcohol and men.

Think the new, pervasive aggression that seems popular for men to have against women. If I had a young daughter I would want her to be free to use the restroom and feel safe. I say keep what we have and add more family restrooms that can be used by people in transition. Once the procedure is complete the complainers should have no issue.

[oberliner]

110. Many such people do not have procedures

They identify as women, for example, but remain biologically male.

There are also people who do not identify with either gender.

Couldn't you go in the restroom with your child to ensure her safety?

[peace13]

118. I say add more family restroom to accommodate your concerns.

In regards to my 'daughter', raising a confident young person involves using independent use of a public restroom without fear for safety. A young child of either sex would be accompanied by a parent but there is a point, nine or ten years old, where they should be able too use the restroom without a parent. I can remember many a time waiting in the hallway for my young son to come out of the men's room. Now, I would use the family restroom and have no worries. I think people with gender identity concerns could do the same. There really isn't an issue here. If women don't want men in the public restrooms I think that is not too much to ask. As it is, if I am alone in a large restroom, I will check the stalls before using one to make sure their isn't anyone in there. It's a thing some women do.

I have been approached by a man when I was in a public shower and it was not a good feeling. I was lucky that he was not armed, just disturbed. Things happen.

[mnhtnbb]

116. A friend who was in Boulder recently took these photos

of the sign and facilities at CU-Boulder University Memorial Center.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]


I've been in numerous all gender restroom facilities when traveling in Europe. It's a bit startling to come out of a stall and see a man washing his hands at a sink,
but that's all it is because it's just different than what we expect here in the US. It's never been a problem.

[romanic]

117. Sorry but no.

I would have no issue with separate "unisex" bathrooms for those who don't care. But as a man I'd feel super uncomfortable pissing in a urinal if I knew there was a woman doing her business in a stall next to it. Js

[Nye Bevan]

119. If you are using the urinal,

how would you know the gender of someone in a stall?

[Rex]

123. IKR?

So for this situation to work, it means he followed the lady into the bathroom and used the urinal anyways. How does Europe survive having uni-sex bathrooms? Surely it has caused western civilization to collapse. Surely.

[romanic]

131. I should've rephrased that

I meant the possibility of a woman sitting in a stall next to the urinals. Lord knows I'd never follow a woman into a public unisex bathroom.

[LostOne4Ever]

132. I will file your concern in file right next to the file of...

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=#009999]men who were uncomfortable having women in the work place.

File 13.[/font]

[romanic]

137. ...

[IMG][/IMG]

Not even the same thing and close to what I originally said. You tried though.

[AwakeAtLast]

120. If you've ever been to a Bucees, you know they have the answer

And also the best snacks....

[oberliner]

121. I haven't

Please elaborate - I am curious as to what they do there.

[AwakeAtLast]

124. It is a gas station/mini mart in Texas

But on a huge scale.

The bathrooms are gendered, but could easily be changed, because each stall is tiled floor to ceiling, with a private door that locks. And there are probably 25 of them in each restroom. They are incredible!

[Rex]

122. Uni-sex bathrooms don't seem to have caused the fall of European nations.

One day America will leave behind the stink of Puritanism. It might have worked in the 17th century, but this is 2016...fuck the GOP and their backward ass laws.

[EL34x4]

130. Where do people get the idea that all the restrooms in Europe are unisex?

Have you ever actually been to Europe? Gender-specific restrooms are common.

And if you haven't noticed, gender segregation is slowly returning to Europe. And this has nothing to do with Republicans or Puritans.

[Politicalboi]

126. I like it the way it is

I don't want to have to put the seat down, or wipe piss off the toilet. I'm sorry, but men are pigs. I live with 3 of them, I know. I know this is for college, but if I had a small girl I wouldn't want her alone in the bathroom with men.

[LostOne4Ever]

133. YES!!! A million times yes! nt

[hedgehog]

136. I don't care as long as there are enough of any restrooms.

[kwassa]

139. 1973, gender-neutral bathroom, Brussels.

I didn't realize it when I was standing at the urinal until the pretty blonde woman from my party walked behind me on her way to a stall and greeted me with a cheerful hello.

Later, at a youth hostel in Amsterdam, the plumbing in the women's shower room was not functioning, so they shared the showers on the men's side. Individual showers, but no doors.

But then, I had been to Woodstock and swum naked with hundreds of people of both sexes. No biggie.

[GummyBearz]

140. If they do I'm never putting the toilet seat down

If all men follow suit, maybe we will get women to finally look before they plop down and fall in a toilet when the seat is up. With this in mind I give it my full blessing

[treestar]

143. If they were designed to have walls ceiling to floor

I don't see a problem.

Some restaurants have two and you can use either of them regardless of gender. Closed door one room ones make that possible.

[eniwetok]

148. little girls and pervs in the same rest room?

It sounds so egalitarian. But I think I know what would soon happen. There'd be some highly publicized incidents of old Aqualung* pervs trying to get a peek of young girls in the next stall... and the restrooms would be resegregated all over again.

(*I suspect only someone my age will get this reference. Hint... Jethro Tull)

[oberliner]

149. Do you not have a similar concern with respect to boys?

It seems like they are presently at risk to be victims of the same sort of criminal behavior under the current system.

[uponit7771]

165. yeap...

[jonks2746]

150. I say it depends on the situation

Overall, though, I'm inclined to support gender neutral bathrooms.

[Agnosticsherbet]

151. I know a lot of women, my wife included, who would not use a gender neutral bathroom

I've seen a few, but they only allow one person in at a time. A large public restroom with urinals would not work. If they were designed with full enclosed stalls, floor to ceiling walls and lockable doors, with a general area for washing hands, that might work. I doubt it.

[oberliner]

152. Why not?

What would her objection be to doing so?

[Agnosticsherbet]

154. Men

[oberliner]

155. What about them?

I truly don't understand what is objectionable about de-gendered bathrooms.

In any case, I think it is the way of the future, as evidenced by the fact that several colleges have already moved in that direction and many others are discussing doing so.

It's just one of those things that may take some getting used to, but is pretty much inevitable.

[Agnosticsherbet]

160. It may be, but I think women can make the decision as to what they find objectionable

or not objectionable.

[Nye Bevan]

161. OK, but if it's male "plumbing" that women find "objectionable" in bathrooms,

that doesn't really fly these days.

[Agnosticsherbet]

162. Plumbing isn't the issue, it is the men in bathrooms.

Last edited Mon Apr 11, 2016, 06:04 PM - Edit history (1)

And I think it flies pretty damn well.
Opinions may vary.

[Nye Bevan]

188. So if it's not the "plumbing", what is it?

What are the main characteristics of a male that would cause a woman to be legitimately reluctant to be in a restroom with him?

[Agnosticsherbet]

190. The preference of many women I know.

They have a right to that choice.

[smirkymonkey]

198. Thank you for showing some sensitivity.

I personally don't like being in a bathroom with anybody, perhaps due to modesty and need for privacy. I think that more women have a problem with this than men, for obvious reasons.

[Yo_Mama]

224. Rape, robbery and peeping. n/t

[oberliner]

177. People used to find a lot of things objectionable that are now considered the norm

I think it's just the way our society is evolving.

[mnhtnbb]

153. See my post with photos # 116

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7750009

[UtahJosh]

156. I don't get the hangups here, having lived in Japan for a long time...

...mens restrooms are cleaned by female custodians all the time (and I'm guessing vice-versa, but that may be just an assumption on my part).

It freaked me out the first couple of times, but NOBODY'S looking, and nobody wants to worry too much about it.

Seems like America just as lots of hang-ups when it comes to this stuff.

Now, concern about perverts is certainly valid, but a pervert intent on creeping around where he/she doesn't belong isn't going to be deterred by a sign or a regulation anyway, is he or she? Let's just apprehend the perverts and leave the rest of it to civilized behavior.

[Ilsa]

157. If all bathrooms were like the ones at Bucee's gas stations/stores,

I wouldn't mind one bit. The toikets are all enclosed with cinderblock and the door goes to the floor. I don't remember if the top is open, but if it is, the walls are so high that it's irrelevant.

[Equinox Moon]

158. Gender merging is the new human race

It's called evolution.

The human race is evolving on all levels. The merging of gender is real and can't be religionised away.

[RobinA]

174. It's A Fad

It will be scienced away. I give it ten years at the most and there will be a backlash of hyper gender consciousness.

[alarimer]

159. Not just no, but HELL no.

I would never use one, without a locking door. And no, stalls are not good enough. In the US, at least, the doors mostly do not go all the way to the floor.

While I think transgendered people should be able to use the restroom of their choice, this does not mean that we should do away with separate bathrooms altogether, with the possible exception of those that only take one person at a time. In that case, who cares what it says on the outside.

I'm mostly concerned from a privacy standpoint for everyone. Sure, you may not care who is looking at you. But I care who watches me. Public restrooms are a nightmare as it stands right now for me.

[oberliner]

173. Did you read the Cooper Union article?

Excerpt:

L, one of the students who pushed for the change (and asked to be referred to only as L), said removing gender distinctions entirely helps transgender students in a way simply allowing them to use men’s or women’s bathrooms does not.

“Even if it is legal, I have been followed and harassed going into either bathroom because I don’t present as gender conforming. I’ll get assaulted whether it’s illegal or not,” L said. “There’s a lot more than can be done, and I don’t want it to feel like the end-all, be-all is making bathrooms degendered. But it is one step, and it’s pretty easy. It’s literally just taking signs down.”

Is that a point worth considering?

[uponit7771]

168. Do you have any grade school children? Also, are we just talking about stalls or bathrooms with...

... urinals and stalls or bathrooms with both and showers?

I don't think all of this has been thought through for all ages, I don't go into the girls room with my daughter for a reason and vise versa.

Its damn near legal in this country for a priest to rape little boys, what would happen if these type of people got access to little girls in the bathroom without their parents?!

I'm willing to listen but I'm shading on the side of hell naw

[oberliner]

172. Isn't there the same concern about boys under the current system?

Grade school boys are currently using men's bathrooms that could be populated by those sorts of people that you reference.

[uponit7771]

181. Yes, that's why I mentioned children and I have a problem with my grade school boy using restroom

... with grown ass'd women too.

Any address to the question?

tia

[oberliner]

184. What about your grade school boy using restrooms with grown men?

Bad people (of the same gender) could potentially have access to children in bathrooms currently with the system as it is. That problem exists regardless, unfortunately.

With regard to your question, I do not know how the bathrooms would be set up. I think the Cooper Union article that I posted does a good job of explaining at least how they are doing it there.

[uponit7771]

186. I'm there with him in separated bathrooms, that one is easy for people with school aged children...

... the people who have them know boundary's on this one.

I go with the guys and if I'm with my daughter she goes in with me ... no perv access

I don't think this has been thought through... and it only takes one perv to screw it up for everyone.

[GoneOffShore]

170. Absolutely. Americans obsess about this. As do people in countries overly concerned with "modesty".

[Bucky]

171. Nope. It's not about what I am comfortable with, but what EVERYONE is comfortable with

The freak perverted conservatives trying to force women to use the men's room is an affront to basic decency and is just another example of the Republican Party being pro-rape.

[oberliner]

175. Many people are not comfortable with the current system

And would be much more comfortable if bathrooms were de-gendered, as evidenced by the quotation at the end of the Cooper Union article.

[Ex Lurker]

179. Accomodating the needs of less than 1% of the population shouldn't require disrupting the lives of

the other 99%. If this is an issue for transgender people, there should be a better way to deal with it. As posted in another thread today, the U of Toronto has had to back away from its gender neutral bathroom policy due to voyeurism incidents.

[oberliner]

180. That U of Toronto story is disturbing

Presumably, though, that crime could occur in single-gender bathrooms as well (and most likely has).

[smirkymonkey]

199. Thank YOU!

I think this is ridiculous.

[Yo_Mama]

225. It's self-defeating. By making the women's restrooms unsafe, it also makes them

unsafe for transsexuals, who are already using them.

The current system allows us to get the non-transsexuals out of there.

[closeupready]

176. Absolutely not. Segregated bathrooms are the way to go.

[uponit7771]

183. +1, I don't think many who support this have grade school aged children

[closeupready]

185. That, and also we live in a Kim-Kardashian society in which indiscretion

is something to boast about, and as far as I am concerned, it's gone too far. Unisex bathrooms in the US will only give further license to those who wish to parade their pornified values in front of everyone in their presence, assenting or not.

[uponit7771]

187. +1, "pornified"...lol... I love this place..

[closeupready]

189. Hehe

[EdwardBernays]

204. I have two school aged kids

They have used gender neutral toilets on multiple occasions... both lived to tell the tale...

This attitude is pretty American.... I have seen literally zero complains about this in Europe... and there's no epidemic of children being attacked in toilets here either...

[Yo_Mama]

226. Of course. Esp. with kids involved.

I've known two women who were raped in restrooms.

[Jester Messiah]

178. I'm mostly in favor of it, but with one reservation...

So many times when I'm at an event, the line for the men's room is short and quick, while the line for the women's room is around the block. I'm going to lose this privilege, I fear...

[liberalnarb]

182. I'm fine with it honestly.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

191. Hell, no!

If a business establishment has completely separate single-stall bathrooms (like Starbucks, for example), I'm fine with them being available to any gender.

Large bathrooms, however, I completely prefer a "women's only" bathroom. Who wants to send their eleven year old daughter into a public bathroom alone? Heck, my sons came into the women's bathroom with me until they were too old to do so.

[EdwardBernays]

201. a few things

if you're worried about your daughter you can always go in and hang out... no big deal...

no one anywhere is suggesting a bathroom with urinals be made uni-sexual... that's just weird!

I live somewhere where a hefty percentage of bathrooms are uni-sexual and have never once heard of or seen any problems...

[eridani]

195. Yes for single occupancy.

Also probably for bathrooms without urinals.

[Warren DeMontague]

196. first, we should stop with the confusing semantic implication that people are bathing in them.

[Orrex]

200. I for one can't believe this thread made it to 200 posts.

[dragonfly301]

205. Did you go to Oberlin?

My son is a recent grad and his dorm bathrooms had a movable letter on the door - M for men only - W for women only - E for everyone. Most of the time it stayed on E for everyone but if someone had a concern they could move it to M or W. Son said there were no problems - of course these were students of similar age and it was Oberlin so mostly similar mindset as well.

[oberliner]

207. Yes indeed

Here is a blog post along the lines of what you wrote from an Oberlin student (from 2009):

What's that about the bathrooms?


You may or may not have heard that the bathrooms are gender-neutral at Oberlin. This may or may not concern you, your parents, or someone else whom you hold dear. I'm here to tell you that I fell into the first camp: gender-neutral bathrooms worried me. I wasn't sure about sharing a bathroom with boys, despite the arguments for gender-neutral bathrooms. (Which, basically, say that gender-neutral bathrooms eliminate the problem of making a choice as to which bathroom you're supposed to use, making everyone a bit more comfortable. It's a pretty good argument.)

When people talk about gender-neutral bathrooms, they sometimes leave out the fact that you get to vote as a hall whether or not you want gender neutral bathrooms, so if you don't want them, they're not a given. There are also compromises that can be made, for example, having the toilets gender-neutral but not the showers, or having the bathroom gender-neutral only at certain times of the day.

My freshman year, I lived in Dascomb, a first year dorm. We voted to make the two bathrooms on our floor gender-neutral, with the knowledge that the floor below us had voted not to have their bathrooms gender-neutral. This way, if you weren't comfortable with gender-neutral bathrooms, you could just go down a floor.

Like I said before, I wasn't completely sold on the idea of gender-neutral bathrooms, but I gave them a try, and they turned out not to be an issue for me. There's really nothing too terrible about walking into a bathroom and seeing a guy. The toilet stalls (of course) lock, and the shower curtains (of course) go all the way across the stall. And, due to where the bathrooms are placed, it's often more convenient to have gender-neutral bathrooms, so you don't have to hike all over the building to find a bathroom, especially when you're visiting friends.

http://blogs.oberlin.edu/living/housing/whats_that_abou.shtml

We had a similar arrangement when I was there.

[dragonfly301]

211. He lived in Dascomb in 08-09

but then moved to I think North. Anyway he had no problems with the gender neutral bathrooms.

[oberliner]

213. I lived in Dascomb and North too

Oh the memories.

The dorm names were decidedly uncreative for such a creative school - North, South, East. No West though for some reason.

[MineralMan]

212. All of the bathrooms in every home where I've lived have

been gender neutral. Odd, huh?

[Nye Bevan]

214. Reading the thread, fear by women of predatory men appears to be the main objection

to gender-neutral restrooms. Obviously this would not apply in a private home setting.

[MineralMan]

216. Actually, that is not so obvious, really.

Please think about it. Many people are abused in their own homes.

My point is that in homes all across this country, people have learned to share bathroom facilities with people of different genders. Accommodations are made on a daily basis. It's almost a universal thing, although some homes now have enough bathrooms to allow individual use by family members.

I grew up with 5 people in my home and one bathroom. So did many of the people of my age group. We managed somehow to use the facilities and still maintain our privacy and safety. That does not mean that my sister didn't walk in on me a couple of times when I was a teenager and vice versa. We learned to knock before entering. It was sort of embarrassing.

The students in dorms all across the country are figuring out how to deal with this, too. It isn't really presenting much of a huge problem for them. It's what we get used to and what our situation is.

Yes, there are potential problems, regardless of how things are arranged. Predators probably don't pay much attention to signs, I'd guess. But that's a different problem.

I'd certainly never call for a wholesale change to gender-neutral facilities. On the other hand, the foofaraw about things like transgender folks using the facility they feel is most appropriate is way overblown. Very likely, very few people will ever encounter such a situation or know they have in the first place.

A larger problem in this society is a shortage of public restrooms, really. That has led to far more problems than any concern over gender signs on such facilities.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

223. People don't have to go into the bathroom to get abused at home

The situations are nothing alike.

[Yo_Mama]

229. You pick and choose who is in your home. Restraining orders are sometimes necessary.

You're NOT a woman. There's a shitload you don't know.

Trying to make this about prudishness is just plain messed up. It isn't.

One-person public restrooms are of course unisex.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

220. I really don't care individually, but...

I have used women's washrooms with a female escort (I know that statement can be misinterpreted, but everyone knows exactly what I mean) when there was drug or Larry Craig activity going on in the men's.

When I worked for a major retailer washroom predators were a pretty consistent problem, often men who were dressed as women who would hang out in the women's washroom for hours masturbating. How pray tell does one in 2016 address that issue without being boycotted?

[Yo_Mama]

227. Yes, it is still an issue. Also robbery. At low traffic times.

Being a woman already means being careful when you travel at off hours.

This makes it infinitely worse. It cannot be policed.

[HughBeaumont]

221. Restrooms should be like the CN Tower's restrooms -

Each stall is a lockable room with ventilation and thick walls. You don't hear anyone, you don't see anyone's feet . . . it's just you and your chosen digestive evacuation.

[Glassunion]

222. It shouldn't be an absolute, all or nothing sort of deal.

I think that each should probably be looked at on an individual basis.

Single use bathrooms at one end of the spectrum and concert or sports venues, would be at the other end of the spectrum.

[LAS14]

231. Thanks for this post.

I've been frustrated that the issue of bathrooms (and dressing rooms?) has been so tightly linked to justice for all people. I'd like not to discriminate against people for their preferences while still being able to discuss the desirability of keeping the sexes private functions private.

[oberliner]

233. What is your take on the subject?

Do you think there is a way to accommodate both of those things?

[LAS14]

234. I like the practical discussion here...

... but it's complicated to pass laws when implementing them would be costly.

[oberliner]

236. Me too

It has given me a lot to think about. Certainly this is going to be a prominent issue in the next few years. I know that it has opened up a lot of discussions at schools.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

232. No

I know Europe's different because I've been there. Just don't see it flying in this country.