General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen those huge corporations get sick of the "revolution" and begin to move more of their jobs
This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by etherealtruth (a host of the General Discussion forum).
outside the US...what will Bernie and his supporters do then?
Mister Ed
(5,944 posts)Corporations have long moved jobs outside of the U.S. without being sick of any hypothetical "revolution", and they'll continue to do so whenever they wish. Their decisions will have nothing to do with Bernie Sanders or his supporters.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Within around 30 years we'll have computers as smart as people are. So long before then we'll have much less of a need to hire people to do work except for sentimental reasons.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Last I looked, we still live in a social democracy, not a socialist society where the gov't takes all businesses under their control.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)from destroying the ability for American workers to have decent jobs and wages. It's about stopping the corporate control of our gov't.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)rate.
RDANGELO
(3,435 posts)If you have a trade policy that supports the American workers, they wont be able to. You make it more expensive to move the jobs then keep them here.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Jobs are just going away. Technology is making it easier to do things with computers very quickly. Trying to stop this is futile.
Sure there are a lot of things we can and should do, but we need to understand that in the final analysis most manufacturing jobs as they existed in the past (lots of people doing things to make widgets) are transforming into better jobs in much smaler numbers due to automation.
People should start planning for lots more spare time because we will have a society where people have a lot more time.. Machines will do most of the things that people do today within 20 or 30 years. noew job creation depends on high levels of education and even then, only the very best are likely to get jobs as we think of them today.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Bernie's supporters will be reason for off-shoring? Was "Yes We Can" the reason for off-shoring jobs up until now? What a ridiculous FAIL,
Baobab
(4,667 posts)We need to re-evaluate every aspect of our trade policy.
Things that privatize public services and make regulating too big to fail banks need to go.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)ornotna
(10,807 posts)How dare they stand up to their corporate masters like that. Would serve them right if they all lost their jobs to outsourcing.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
Democat
(11,617 posts)Either Democratic candidate will be better than Trump.
ProfessorGAC
(65,187 posts)Just, Yikes!
Rex
(65,616 posts)D.C. protests by the working class and the Panama Papers made them poop their pants! I for one will love watching them meltdown over the following weeks and months.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)going to restore benefits, we're going to make buying drugs overseas legal, and dozens of other needed fixes. And, notably, we're going to make it more expensive for business to leave the nation and continue to sell here than to stay here and continue to sell here.
These were all so doable at any time a majority of the citizens said, "No more! This isn't working for us." And now we are with just some flexing of our giant muscle within our democracy set up for just that. Nothing more needed than OUR insisting on passing sensible laws that balance out the competing interests so we can all do well.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)And Bernie will help by not being openly hostile to them like the various corporatist candidates in both parties.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)But have a nice day.
Teamster Jeff
(1,598 posts)If they could have moved more they already would have.
Some companies just have to make due by driving down pay by making threats.
Kinda like your post
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)occupy the closed plants WITHOUT compensation for the traitors who move out of the country, take no-interest loans from the taxpayers in order to continue operations and do it for a small administrative cost and NOT for profit.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)a la izquierda
(11,797 posts)Hmmm...about that...
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)They won't have jobs anymore or masters to care for them!
ret5hd
(20,522 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)So done with this kind of crap.
longship
(40,416 posts)On Wed Apr 13, 2016, 04:57 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
When those huge corporations get sick of the "revolution" and begin to move more of their jobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027755932
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This RW Republican crap does not belong on this website.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Apr 13, 2016, 05:04 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm a Bernie supporter. At DU, we can do better than hide ignorance. We can expose it and educate.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see nothing right winged about this. It's a question.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Responders are already doing a fine job with this one. I predict either a lock due to GD, or a self-delete due to embarrassment.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh it's silly but not hide worthy
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)TPP. TIPP?
Rex
(65,616 posts)It is going to be a shame watching the D.C crowd have a meltdown over the Panama Papers. Caught red handed with the likes of cartel kingpins...um no duh! How many decades have we been talking about Air America and the CIA? I hope these papers shatter any final illusion about our deep governments involvement with drugs and arms.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)"Fizzbin?! Except on a Tuesday?"
Hence all the Austerity, Kiptin.
Proof that Power, Money and Crushing Dissent Are NSAs Real Motives for Spying
By Washington's Blog
Washington's Blog 24 October 2013
The NSA not only spied on the leaders of Germany, Brazil and Mexico, but on at least 35 world leaders.
The Guardian reports:
One unnamed US official handed over 200 numbers, including those of the 35 world leaders, none of whom is named. These were immediately tasked for monitoring by the NSA.
SNIP...
And even the argument that 9/11 changed everything holds no water. Spying started before 9/11 and various excuses have been used to spy on Americans over the years. Even NSAs industrial espionage has been going on for many decades. And the NSA was already spying on American Senators more than 40 years ago.
Governments who spy on their own population always do it to crush dissent. (Why do you think that the NSA is doing exactly the same thing which King George did to the American colonists which led to the Revolutionary War?)
Of course, if even half of what a NSA whistleblower Russel Tice says that the NSA is spying on and blackmailing top American government officials and military officers (and see this) then things are really out of whack.
SOURCE with LINKS to details and sources:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/10/proof-that-nsa-spying-is-not-really-focused-on-terrorism.html
Thanks to people who give a damn about, perhaps ideas like "Justice," "Liberty" and "Democracy" won't be missing from humanity's thoughts in the future if we don't wake the heck up now.
Aqualung
Time-Tested Weapons for U.S. Global Power
By Alfred McCoy
Tomgram, Jan. 19, 2014
For more than six months, Edward Snowdens revelations about the National Security Agency (NSA) have been pouring out from the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Guardian, Germanys Der Spiegel, and Brazils O Globo, among other places. Yet no one has pointed out the combination of factors that made the NSAs expanding programs to monitor the world seem like such a slam-dunk development in Washington. The answer is remarkably simple. For an imperial power losing its economic grip on the planet and heading into more austere times, the NSAs latest technological breakthroughs look like a bargain basement deal when it comes to projecting power and keeping subordinate allies in line -- like, in fact, the steal of the century. Even when disaster turned out to be attached to them, the NSAs surveillance programs have come with such a discounted price tag that no Washington elite was going to reject them.
For well over a century, from the pacification of the Philippines in 1898 to trade negotiations with the European Union today, surveillance and its kissing cousins, scandal and scurrilous information, have been key weapons in Washingtons search for global dominion. Not surprisingly, in a post-9/11 bipartisan exercise of executive power, George W. Bush and Barack Obama have presided over building the NSA step by secret step into a digital panopticon designed to monitor the communications of every American and foreign leaders worldwide.
What exactly was the aim of such an unprecedented program of massive domestic and planetary spying, which clearly carried the risk of controversy at home and abroad? Here, an awareness of the more than century-long history of U.S. surveillance can guide us through the billions of bytes swept up by the NSA to the strategic significance of such a program for the planets last superpower. What the past reveals is a long-term relationship between American state surveillance and political scandal that helps illuminate the unacknowledged reason why the NSA monitors Americas closest allies.
[font color="green"]Not only does such surveillance help gain intelligence advantageous to U.S. diplomacy, trade relations, and war-making, but it also scoops up intimate information that can provide leverage -- akin to blackmail -- in sensitive global dealings and negotiations of every sort. The NSAs global panopticon thus fulfills an ancient dream of empire. With a few computer key strokes, the agency has solved the problem that has bedeviled world powers since at least the time of Caesar Augustus: how to control unruly local leaders, who are the foundation for imperial rule, by ferreting out crucial, often scurrilous, information to make them more malleable.[/font color]
A Cost-Savings Bonanza With a Downside
Once upon a time, such surveillance was both expensive and labor intensive. Today, however, unlike the U.S. Armys shoe-leather surveillance during World War I or the FBIs break-ins and phone bugs in the Cold War years, the NSA can monitor the entire world and its leaders with only 100-plus probes into the Internets fiber optic cables.
This new technology is both omniscient and omnipresent beyond anything those lacking top-secret clearance could have imagined before the Edward Snowden revelations began. Not only is it unimaginably pervasive, but NSA surveillance is also a particularly cost-effective strategy compared to just about any other form of global power projection. And better yet, it fulfills the greatest imperial dream of all: to be omniscient not just for a few islands, as in the Philippines a century ago, or a couple of countries, as in the Cold War era, but on a truly global scale.
CONTINUED...
http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/175795/tomgram%3A_alfred_mccoy,_it's_about_blackmail,_not_national_security/
Why does this matter, when my house is about to get foreclosed because my job got offshored? It's tied in, when Wall Street and War Inc. are where the really Big Bucks go to get made. For We the People are the ones who ALWAYS get "the haircut."
Sometimes a fortune rests on a mere scrap of information, like in a "Fistful of Dollars."
CIA moonlights in corporate world
In the midst of two wars and the fight against Al Qaeda, the CIA is offering operatives a chance to peddle their expertise to private companies on the side a policy that gives financial firms and hedge funds access to the nations top-level intelligence talent, POLITICO has learned.
In one case, these active-duty officers moonlighted at a hedge-fund consulting firm that wanted to tap their expertise in deception detection, the highly specialized art of telling when executives may be lying based on clues in a conversation.
The never-before-revealed policy comes to light as the CIA and other intelligence agencies are once again under fire for failing to connect the dots, this time in the Christmas Day bombing plot on Northwest Flight 253.
SNIP...
But the close ties between active-duty and retired CIA officers at one consulting company show the degree to which CIA-style intelligence gathering techniques have been employed by hedge funds and financial institutions in the global economy.
The firm is called Business Intelligence Advisors, and it is based in Boston. BIA was founded and is staffed by a number of retired CIA officers, and it specializes in the arcane field of deception detection. BIAs clients have included Goldman Sachs and the enormous hedge fund SAC Capital Advisors, according to spokesmen for both firms.
CONTINUED...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32290.html#ixzz0eIFPhHBh
Then there's the signature tradition of playing both sides off the middle, like selling rifles to both the Allies and the Central Powers during World War I, or the bounty hunters in "For a Few Dollars More" getting one inside to work out.
Stratfor: executive boasted of 'trusted former CIA cronies'
By Alex Spillius, Diplomatic Correspondent
9:08PM GMT 28 Feb 2012
The Telegraph
A senior executive with the private intelligence firm Stratfor boasted to colleagues about his "trusted former CIA cronies" and promised to "see what I can uncover" about a classified FBI investigation, according to emails released by the WikiLeaks.
Fred Burton, vice president of intelligence at the Texas firm, also informed members of staff that he had a copy of the confidential indictment on Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks.
The second batch of five million internal Stratfor emails obtained by the Anonymous computer hacking group revealed that the company has high level sources within the United States and other governments, runs a network of paid informants that includes embassy staff and journalists and planned a hedge fund, Stratcap, based on its secret intelligence.
SNIP...
Mr Assange labelled the company as a "private intelligence Enron", in reference to the energy giant that collapsed after a false accounting scandal.
CONTINUED...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9111784/Stratfor-executive-boasted-of-trusted-former-CIA-cronies.html
Then, there's Booz Allen, NSA's go-to private spyhaus, vacuums and filters the right stuff for Carlyle Group, a buy-partisan business which always seems to know where and what to bomb and make a buck, but the lines between sides turned out be fuzzy and amorphous nebula-like -- like in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."
The Knights of the Revolving Door
When War is Swell: the Carlyle Group and the Middle East at War
by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
CounterPunch, Weekend Edition September 6-8, 2013
Paris.
A couple of weeks ago, in a dress rehearsal for her next presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton, the doyenne of humanitarian interventionism, made a pit-stop at the Carlyle Group to brief former luminaries of the imperial war rooms about her shoot-first-dont-ask-questions foreign policy.
For those of you who have put the playbill of the Bush administration into a time capsule and buried it beneath the compost bin, the Carlyle Group is essentially a hedge fund for war-making and high tech espionage. They are the people who brought you the Iraq war and all those intrusive niceties of Homeland Security. Call them the Knights of the Revolving Door, many of Carlyles executives and investors having spent decades in the Pentagon, the CIA or the State Department, before cashing in for more lucrative careers as war profiteers. They are now licking their chops at the prospect for an all-out war against Syria, no doubt hoping that the conflagration will soon spread to Lebanon, Jordan and, the big prize, Iran.
For a refresher course on the sprawling tentacles of the Carlyle Group, heres an essay that first appeared in CounterPunchs print edition in 2004. Sadly, not much has changed in the intervening years, except these feted souls have gotten much, much richer. JSC
Across all fronts, Bushs war deteriorates with stunning rapidity. The death count of American soldiers killed in Iraq will soon top 1000, with no end in sight. The members of the handpicked Iraqi Governor Council are being knocked off one after another. Once loyal Shia clerics, like Ayatollah Sistani, are now telling the administration to pull out or face a nationalist insurgency. The trail of culpability for the abuse, torture and murder of Iraqi detainees seems to lead inexorably into the office of Donald Rumsfeld. The war for Iraqi oil has ended up driving the price of crude oil through the roof. Even Kurdish leaders, brutalized by the Baathists for decades, are now saying Iraq was a safer place under their nemesis Saddam Hussein. Like Medea whacking her own kids, the US turned on its own creation, Ahmed Chalabi, raiding his Baghdad compound and fingering him as an agent of the ayatollahs of Iran. And on and on it goes.
Still not all of the presidents men are in a despairing mood. Amid the wreckage, there remain opportunities for profit and plunder. Halliburton and Bechtels triumphs in Iraq have been chewed over for months. Less well chronicled is the profiteering of the Carlyle Group, a company with ties that extend directly into the Oval Office itself.
Even Pappy Bush stands in line to profit handsomely from his sons war making. The former president is on retainer with the Carlyle Group, the largest privately held defense contractor in the nation. Carlyle is run by Frank Carlucci, who served as the National Security advisor and Secretary of Defense under Ronald Reagan. Carlucci has his own embeds in the current Bush administration. At Princeton, his college roommate was Donald Rumsfeld. Theyve remained close friends and business associates ever since. When you have friends like this, you dont need to hire lobbyists..
Bush Sr. serves as a kind of global emissary for Carlyle. The ex-president doesnt negotiate arms deals; he simply opens the door for them, a kind of high level meet-and-greet. His special area of influence is the Middle East, primarily Saudi Arabia, where the Bush family has extensive business and political ties. According to an account in the Washington Post, Bush Sr. earns around $500,000 for each speech he makes on Carlyles behalf.
One of the Saudi investors lured to Carlyle by Bush was the BinLaden Group, the construction conglomerate owned by the family of Osama bin Laden. According to an investigation by the Wall Street Journal, Bush convinced Shafiq Bin Laden, Osamas half brother, to sink $2 million of BinLaden Group money into Carlyles accounts. In a pr move, the Carlyle group cut its ties to the BinLaden Group in October 2001.
CONTINUED...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/06/when-war-is-swell-the-carlyle-group-and-the-middle-east-at-war/
Sorry to cut and paste, but the subject needs mention. The reality is that underneath what shows for public navigators is one enormous iceberg made from blood-red ice, invisible to the proles and serfs who are doing their best to keep afloat in a frozen sea of austerity, endless war and debt servitude in what are, by far, the wealthiest times in human history.
Thank you for carrying the burden all those decades, Rex.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Growing up in the 70s and 80s it was hard to swallow that my country was sold off and that the working class was nothing more then a pest to the owners. Then reading about the deep government and realizing how sold down the river we all are, gave me an understanding about the enormity of the situation.
I notice the BFEE lovers are somewhat absent from this site now...what a shame, really sad to see them go away. I guess a few of them do have some shame in their bodies after all. Who could have guessed?
Or maybe they, for once, STFU and did some research on their own and discovered what grand fools they've been all these years? Couldn't happen to a better bunch of people imo.
KG
(28,752 posts)Turin_C3PO
(14,063 posts)Your post is RW rhetoric. I think Sanders and Clinton supporters alike support responsible corporate behavior.
Rex
(65,616 posts)All they do it rip into one of the candidates, I don't even think they are going to vote for Bernie or HRC. They just come here to troll and divide. I know a lot of HRC and Bernie supporters in RL and they sure don't behave like the juveniles we see here and elsewhere on the Internet. They have adult conversations that never stray into these type of freeperish OPs.
DU has sunk pretty far for this kind of crap to still not be locked.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=9847
If it mentions one of the primary candidates then it still belongs in GDP.
You are welcome to post about the general election in GD without reference to the primary candidates.