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Thu Apr 21, 2016, 04:39 AM

Does single payer/Medicare for All sound good now?

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/17/1515199/-Does-single-payer-Medicare-for-All-sound-good-now

How do drug companies get away with this legalized theft? In addition to lobbying Congress, they brainwash Americans into the false belief that they are receiving some benefit for an overpriced product. The astounding amount of money they invest in advertising and marketing is probative. Yet, Americans live no longer than most in the industrialized world.

Ultimately, the only solution is a single payer/Medicare for All system where drug companies are regulated more strictly than utility companies. If they find that too restrictive, research and development can be relegated solely to public universities, and manufactured by the lowest bidder.

Drug companiesí sole desire is to make a profit. Humanity plays no role. Why, then, should anyone believe they will perform any better than a university? Why not pay professors a high salary to develop products based solely on science without the worry of advertising cost, exploitative executives, and shareholders?

A single payer system would give Americans the power to demand this.

41 replies, 3440 views

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Arrow 41 replies Author Time Post
Reply Does single payer/Medicare for All sound good now? (Original post)
eridani Apr 2016 OP
djean111 Apr 2016 #1
Bad Dog Apr 2016 #3
djean111 Apr 2016 #5
Bad Dog Apr 2016 #20
BadgerKid Apr 2016 #4
djean111 Apr 2016 #6
Recursion Apr 2016 #2
A Simple Game Apr 2016 #7
Recursion Apr 2016 #8
Scuba Apr 2016 #10
Recursion Apr 2016 #11
Scuba Apr 2016 #14
Recursion Apr 2016 #18
1StrongBlackMan Apr 2016 #28
watoos Apr 2016 #17
Recursion Apr 2016 #19
eridani Apr 2016 #25
Recursion Apr 2016 #27
eridani Apr 2016 #29
Recursion Apr 2016 #30
eridani Apr 2016 #31
Recursion Apr 2016 #32
eridani Apr 2016 #33
Recursion Apr 2016 #34
eridani Apr 2016 #39
Recursion Apr 2016 #40
eridani Apr 2016 #41
Kentonio Apr 2016 #35
Recursion Apr 2016 #36
Kentonio Apr 2016 #37
Recursion Apr 2016 #38
Stevepol Apr 2016 #9
redwitch Apr 2016 #12
classykaren Apr 2016 #13
ReRe Apr 2016 #16
1939 Apr 2016 #22
ReRe Apr 2016 #23
Progressive dog Apr 2016 #15
KG Apr 2016 #21
mmonk Apr 2016 #24
suffragette Apr 2016 #26

Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 05:10 AM

1. I need to research how "trade" agreements affect the concept of single payer.

 

Things like the TPP frown on anything that threatens corporate profits. I think the TPP allows Pharma to effectively tell a county what drugs will be in a formulary, etc.

A president or Congressperson who signs the TPP may well be signing away our right to have single payer.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:09 AM

3. The biggest stumbling block to TTIP

Is the fear that Americans will get their hands on our Healthcare system.

Btw, healthcare is only as good as the money put in. The Tories have made a right mess. My dad was admitted yesterday and I can't even get someone to answer the phone.

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Response to Bad Dog (Reply #3)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:26 AM

5. That is a very valid reason to fear the TTIP.

 

But, really, it is corporations, not "Americans" - my grandson is trying to save enough so he can go to community college and not go into debt. His job is part time, pays a pittance, and, of course, no benefits (the American Way!). He gets a $120 a month subsidy for his insurance, and pays $50 a month for insurance with big co-pays. And that insurance does not cover the psychiatrist he sees, so that is $100 cash each visit. The kicker - if his salary falls BENEATH $11,000 this year, which it likely will do, he has to pay back the entire subsidy amount.

And he just got an email from his insurer telling him he better really be in danger of dying in order to go to the ER. And to make sure he has the proper pre-authorization if he is ever so rash as to go to the ER. And to call an insurance company nurse to describe his symptoms and let the insurance company make the decision.

Actually, the co-pay for the ER is so big that he wouldn't dream of voluntarily going, anyway.

The TTIP and TPP, IMO, are dangerous to everybody's health,.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #5)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:27 AM

20. That's a huge amount of money to have to pay out.

Over here he'd probably qualify for free prescriptions.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:12 AM

4. Doesn't TPP give biz the right to sue

If changes in government policy were to infringe on expected future profits? Sounds like legalized pricing power, single payer or not.

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Response to BadgerKid (Reply #4)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:28 AM

6. Yes. And always remember who voted for Fast track, who votes for the TPP and TTIP, and - who

 

SHILLED for those. Those people work for corporations, not the people. No support from me, ever.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:03 AM

2. Except single payer makes drug companies more powerful

Because they can attack any attempt to cut their prices as "cutting Medicare". It's already happened with Medicare Part D. Financing is not the problem, and we need to get our heads out of the sand and look beyond financing reform.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 06:59 AM

7. Then you make the drug companies like public utilities. n/t

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:00 AM

8. Indeed. Notice we don't have single payer for public utilities. We simply regulate them.

And individual consumers pay. That's what we need to do, and futzing around with the financing model doesn't get us any closer to that, and runs the risk of locking drug companies in to the Federal cash cow.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:08 AM

10. Smearing FUD already this morning? What a crock.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #10)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:10 AM

11. Just because you don't think your own alleged policies through...

We need to make drug companies (and doctors, and hospitals) like a public utility.

Notice we don't have single payer for public utilities.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:23 AM

14. Hogwash.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #14)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:54 AM

18. Why are you against drug companies and hospitals being treated like public utilities?

Are you sure you're on the right website?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #18)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:29 PM

28. Because it's not single-payer ...

 

whatever that is! (would be the honest answer).

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Response to Recursion (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:49 AM

17. Medicare Part D

 

was a prescription drug plan that was a giveaway to Mr. P.
The boy president was behind Medicare Part D. He made sure that there was a provision written into the legislation that the government is not permitted to negotiate for the cheapest drug prices.
Americans pay 40% of the world's cost for prescription drugs.
Single payer health care and Medicare Part D are separate animals, remove the non negotiable regulation from Medicare Part D.

I also believe that the TPP and TTIP may well be the end of single payer health care, but Americans are so stupid we may do away with Medicare without the TPP.

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Response to watoos (Reply #17)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:55 AM

19. Guess what? Single payer will *also* be a giveaway to providers

Do you seriously not get that? Do you seriously not see that's why a lot of people are hesitant about the idea?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #19)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:14 PM

25. There will be a substantial amount of political pressure working against that n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #25)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:24 PM

27. If we had that political pressure to summon we wouldn't need single payer in the first place

If Congress were willing to say "doctors, hospitals, pharma, and device manufacturers have to make about half as much as they do now", they could say it right now, without single payer. They won't say it now, and they won't say it after a hypothetical single payer bill.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #27)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 12:18 AM

29. Global budgeting is an essential part of single payer

Without global budgeting, it isn't single payer.

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Response to eridani (Reply #29)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 02:11 AM

30. Nonsense

Single payer means one entity pays all claims for medical services. It certainly works better with global or capitation budgeting, but it by no means implies that, and I think a fee-for-service model like Medicare would be a much more likely outcome, which again is why I want to focus on provider reform first rather than locking the current provider model into a financing reform.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #30)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 03:59 AM

31. Canada, Taiwan and South Korea all have global budgeting

There are no single payer systems without it.

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Response to eridani (Reply #31)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:06 AM

32. Ours would be. Look at Medicare

You're ignoring the system we actually have, and that we're actually talking about expanding. Not sure why, other than that it's uncomfortable to look at.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #32)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:08 AM

33. Medicare isn't really single payer, what with laws against drug price negotiations n/t

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Response to eridani (Reply #33)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:13 AM

34. I still think you're confusing "single payer" with "good"

"Single Payer" literally just means one entity pays claims. There are great and horrible ways to do single payer health insurance. I don't see what you think you gain by expanding that definition, and frankly it's a little dishonest.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #34)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:22 AM

39. Canada, South Korea and Taiwan have the only true single payer systems

I use the term national health care to distinguish Britain, Spain, Italy and Nordic countries where government actually runs the system instead of just paying for it.

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Response to eridani (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:55 AM

40. No, Bhutan and North Korea do too

Again, good and bad ways to do it.

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Response to eridani (Reply #39)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:58 AM

41. I think that NK is more like Britain--national healty system n/t

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Response to Recursion (Reply #32)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:14 AM

35. Yeah, lets ignore the countless examples of this thing being done simply and effectively..

 

..in countries all around the world, and instead insist that its just not possible to do here because we're so gosh darn exceptional.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:15 AM

36. We are exceptionally bad at stuff like this; I don't see why you don't grasp that

I mean, just look at how much Medicare overpays for everything (google "Doctor Fix" if you're not familiar with it).

Or do you think Medicare Part D was a good bill?

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Response to Recursion (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:17 AM

37. I'm sick of being told what we can't do.

 

If all those other countries can do it then why the hell can't America?

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #37)

Fri Apr 22, 2016, 04:19 AM

38. Because we're very racist and have more minorities than they do

It's a simple, if unappealing, reason. And as Europe's minority populations increase we're starting to see those countries move to the right also. White people don't like voting for public money going to non-white people, and white Americans are particularly bad about it.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:02 AM

9. Who gave you the right to dictate to Americans

that they will have cheap, affordable health care paid for by taxes mostly aimed directly at the job-creators, and where the drugs prescribed are affordable and as cheap as the market will allow???

What gives you the right to dictate what I will or will not do?? If I want to pay $6000 for a pill instead of 10 cents what business is that of yours???

This is what ticks me off about so-called liberals. The American people are not going to take this lying down, not when we've got people like Trump and Cruz at our side, fighting for us every step of the way! They'll have to carry me out in a gurney and put me in a hospital bed before I'll submit to injustices like that. Wake up America!!!!

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Response to Stevepol (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:16 AM

12. :-)

We are researching our health ins options because we are losing our coverage April 30. I cannot find a plan that will matter a damn. eligible for subsidies but the bronze we can afford has big copays and deductibles. it sucks.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:22 AM

13. The biggest one United Health Care is dropping out next year.

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Response to classykaren (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:49 AM

16. Seriously?

Like AARP United Health Care? Wonder when they were going to tell their clients. Do you have a link for that? I'd like to read about it, as I have AARP Supplemental. Thanks.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #16)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:23 AM

22. United Health is getting out of the state pools only

The rest of their health insurance businesses will remain in place.

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Response to 1939 (Reply #22)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 12:24 PM

23. Thanks n/t

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 07:29 AM

15. If it's a false belief that drugs provide some benefits

then we don't have to worry about how much they cost. We could just leave them out of the healthcare system and save all that money.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 11:17 AM

21. got ACA, what else could you possibly hope for?

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 02:41 PM

24. Yes. ACA will probably be gone in my state in 2017.

Screw the gods of the USA, the corporations.

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Response to eridani (Original post)

Thu Apr 21, 2016, 10:16 PM

26. Simply, yes.

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